The Press Box - 'The Oath’ and Ike Barinholtz’s Response to the Chaotic News Cycle | The Big Picture (Ep. 535)

Episode Date: October 12, 2018

Ringer editor-in-chief Sean Fennessey speaks with comedic talent Ike Barinholtz about his directorial debut, ‘The Oath,’ and how it’s a direct response to the breakneck speed of the news cycle since the election. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Liz Kelly, and I want to tell you about the second annual Ringer NBA Palooza we have going on next week on Tuesday, October 16. We'll be streaming a live marathon countdown to tip off with Bill Simmons and the Ringer NBA crew, featuring live podcasts, special guests, Ringer original shorts, and culminating in a Sixers Celtics watch party. You can check it out live on Tuesday across all of our social media platforms. And don't forget to check out our brand new NBA Palooza merch on the ringer.com slash shop. Look, it's impossible to prognosticate anything now. If you told me that you are 100% positive next week, Donald Trump is going to leave the White House, I'd be like, okay, he might. If you told me Donald Trump is going to be king for life, I'd be like, okay, he might.

I just don't know anymore. So the news cycle really kind of inspired us at a certain point. We're just like, oh my God, let's let's hurry. Let's get this thing out because it just seems like very of the moment. I'm Sean Fentasy, editor-in-chief of The Ringer, and this is the big picture, a conversation show with some of the biggest comment. actors slash filmmakers in the world. Today, Ike Barronholz is on the show. You know, Ike. He's the rambunctious comedy actor from the Mindy Project in Neighbors and this year's Blockers. He's a comic sidekick genius type. So why is Ike on the show? Well, he's written, directed, and stars in a

movie of his own. And it's not what you might expect. It's called the Oath, and the setup is sneakily simple. A family gathers over Thanksgiving and debates the complicated state of our country's politics while slowly descending into madness. The Oath is truly a black comedy as dark and paranoid as it is funny, and Barenholtz has wisely enlisted an incredible cast to work with him, including Tiffany Haddish, John Cho, and Carrie Brownstein. I spoke to Ike about making his first film, balancing the craziness of our daily news cycle with a movie about that cycle, and the state of movie comedy. Here's Ike Baranholtz. Man, I'm so excited to be joined by Ike Baranholtz. I'm a director now. I'm a director now. You can tell by my culots and my

crop and my director's hat, I've worn the gear. You brought a chair in here with you that says director. I bring my own director's chair everywhere I go. That's one of my Hollywood tips. I know I have a podcast called Ike's Hollywood Tips. Nice, one of my favorites. That was our third pod. We talked all about the title of pod was the chair.

And yeah, I stick by. And you know other actors make fun of me on set and stuff when I do it, but I don't care. And I'll fire them. So you're actually a director. I actually did a film. I made a film. It's called The Oath. I love this movie.

How did this movie happen? I didn't even know it was coming until I saw a trailer. Yeah, we kind of snuck it in there a little bit. The whole thing kind of started a couple November's ago. Okay. I think we all know something that happened around that time. That was a little earth-shattering. Thanksgiving?

Thanksgiving every year. No, it was at the Thanksgiving right after Trump won. And there was a general malaise. I think most people were feeling there were a small percentage we're feeling in isolation. But after dinner, Thanksgiving is a very big holiday in my house. and my folks come out, they live in the Midwest still, and my brother lives here, and he comes. We have about 20, 25 people.

And after dinner, we were discussing the state of the union, and there was alcohol involved, but we started arguing. And, you know, it was getting slightly heated. And, you know, the crazy thing is that we were all on the same side. You know, we all, you know, enthusiasts. It was really my mom, my brother, and I. that we're having this argument. And we all, you know, voted for Hillary Clinton.

And the argument was kind of that thing of like my brother, you know, preferred Bernie, I think, even though he campaigned for Hillary and went into Indiana and Ohio to campaign for her. But he was saying, you know, listen, you know, she was flawed and maybe Bernie would have won, that whole thing. And I was, you know, saying, no, it's bullshit. And it was in something's going on. And it's not right. My mom was kind of taking the approach of, like, you know, the Democrats have just forgotten about the Midwest.

It's ridiculous. I come from Ohio. It's a Democratic stronghold. And so we were getting in this fight. I just thought, Jesus, man, we're all on the same side. What is happening to other family tables around the country now? Let me ask you something.

Is your family the kind of family that will talk politics at the dinner table? Or was the extraordinary nature of that last election kind of bringing something new to the surface? We, you know, if we're at like a large table, I think we'll try to, you know, use decorum. But yes, we definitely are all, you know, my parents loved politics when I was. I was growing up. My dad was marginally involved with some local Chicago Democratic politicians. And so we always were passionate about it. And we discussed it a lot and had some strong feelings about Barack Obama, all positive.

I mean, not all positive. I think he was flawed. But, like, we used to play basketball together in Chicago back in the early 2000s, late 90s and stuff. And he was, you know, a Chicago guy. And, you know, he came from the Abner-Mikvah School of Chicago Politics, which my dad. dad really abides by. So we were always passionate. And I think after, you know, Trump, it was this just horrible realization of like, wow, it can really go very badly the other way. And so I just knew that this discussion, this argument was happening all across the country and in a lot more

severe levels. And so I knew that right away, that location, that that week of Thanksgiving where everything's kind of bubbling and everyone's in town and you're excited to see each other, but there's still like, you know, all the years of stress that have built up and stuff. If the backdrop of that was there's something big is happening politically. And then kind of the other component of it was I'm a big fan of dystopia. Like I love, like, Children of Men is one of my all-time favorite movies. Which is like a perfect film. Yep. And I'm always like intrigued by like the mythology. How did they get there, right? How did they end up at this place? I never really gave a shit about Donald Trump. I mean, I always thought he was just like a like a clowny,

Lusory type celebrity, like a Batman villain. Of course. A classic Batman. Yep. That guy on The Apprentice. He's annoying. The guy on The Apprentice, which I didn't even watch and stuff. But as he started entering, you know, the political landscape more and becoming a thing, I really

became kind of obsessed with him and started reading more about what I'm just a bad guy. He's just not a good guy. And he's very inspired by, you know, Roy Cohn. And I was always taken with his obsession on loyalty. The similarities between him and Joe McCarthy are pretty great to me. I think Joe McCarthy was probably smarter, but Trump drank less, I guess. I don't know. But the concept of loyalty and people demanding loyalty and how people respond to that is fascinating to me.

So I started toying with this idea of if the government introduces some kind of policy that's not mandatory. They're not going to put a gun to your head and make you sign it, but they're going to give you some benefits if you do sign it. And all is just a simple statement saying, I pledge my. loyalty to the United States and the president and would never do anything considered subversive. That's basically the gist of the actual oath. And if you do sign it, you get, you know, a tax cut and, you know, some health care benefits and stuff. So right away, I started toying with this concept of this, you know, big sweeping government semi-mandated oath and how that would polarize people when they're already polarized. And just kind of slowly those two, just kind of, that was the thing I needed.

I had the container, the week of Thanksgiving at the house, and I needed this kind of concept of loyalty and mandating this oath. So those two things just kind of merged, and I wrote it very quickly. Were you thinking I want to make a film? It's time for me to be a writer-director? Yeah, you know, for a few years now, you know, I started directing some episodes of the Mindy Project, and I really loved it. And, you know, it's very different directing an episode of television. It's, you know, 10 days tops, you know, with prep. The look is defined. The look is defined. You're going in. You're kind of being told what to do. You have a chance to show a little bit of individuality, but at the same time, it's a, it's a well, presumably a well-oil

machine that you're just a cog in right now. Right. So, but I, but I love directing. And I, and I, and I've been writing for a long time, and I've been writing, uh, mostly with my writing partner and a guy named Dave Stassum. And, and, and, and I knew I did want to make a small movie, a personal movie. And, and, and I had a couple ideas that were kind of trickling in, but right after that Thanksgiving dinner, I was like, oh, we got to do a movie about Thanksgiving. Got to do something about Thanksgiving and crazy political times. And so I knew I was going to write it. I knew that it was going to be a small movie, you know, it wasn't going to be something that I bring around to a bunch of studios and stuff.

And I knew that if I could find someone to give me money to make it, you know, presumably I would have control of it. And it could be just the first thing I've ever put forward, that's completely my voice. Because any movie you see that I've worked on, has a million people working on it. Same thing with, you know, TV show. It's really hard to, you know, you have to really make a film, I think.

Or be like Vince Gilligan, get like a series out that really shows your point of you. So I knew I was going to do that. And as I was writing it and developing it, things that, the concepts that I was introducing in the movie started happening in real life. Like Trump pin combed down was like, are you loyal to me? Are you loyal? I don't know if you remember early on. It's still one of the craziest things I've ever seen was it was like a cabinet meeting

and they all went around the room being like, I will work for you, Mr. President, and I will serve you proudly. And it was like, where the fuck? What's going on? So it was this weird instance of life copying. art that was already copying life. So it was crazy as it was throughout the writing process, and the shooting process and editing, it just things kept echoing what we were saying. Before we talk more about the idea of making this thing, which I'm very interested in how you

did it and why you did it the way that you did. But most people know you as Ike from neighbors or from Mindy or blockers. Eastbound and down. Eastbound and down. This is a really funny guy. Your career is presumably growing. Blockers are the hit. That's great. But this is a highly politicized thing that you're doing. And as you say, it's from your point of view, there's some risk that comes with saying, this is what I believe. And here's my somewhat satirical, but eerily accurate portrayal of the dystopian American experience right now. Yeah. Are you worried that some people who probably loved you in those movies or those TV shows are like, fuck this guy? Oh, I think that ship sailed a long time ago. Yeah. Well, first of all, I've been tweeting about,

you know, my political beliefs for for a long time. And like the rest of the country, was a thing that we thought about once in a while and it didn't really think about how it influenced our day-to-day life. But I could show you a couple thousand tweets from calling Trump a fucking idiot and this is crazy and these people are monsters. So I wasn't worried about that.

What I always kind of just think of, if someone this says to you, you know, you're going to lose fans over saying what you think is right. I mean, you know, what's more important? At the end of the day, I, you know, I think anyone who might see this movie who already hates me is not going to see this movie, if that makes sense.

Sure. So I just, you know, but I knew that it was going to be like a risky movie, especially for, not just for the audience, but for producers. Like, who am I going to find to make this thing? So who'd you find? I found the best guys. I found QC Entertainment, who produced Get Out and a bunch of other Black Clans and a bunch of great stuff. And, sorry, I wrote it and, you know, my reps or whatever made a list of, you know, prospective producers and stuff. But for some reason, I had my eye on QC just because I kind of, I loved get out so much.

And I loved, I love kind of their take on films. They want some social relevance. This is like Sean McChryton. Sean McChitrick and Ray Mansfield and Ted Ham. They run QC. And they were the, you know, by far the. ones who felt the strongest about it and were like, you know, can you make this for, you know, this amount of money? Great. Let's, let's do it. And they got behind it from day one and they are

they are like the guys, man. They're like actually making movies and they're actually making movies about stuff. So really thanks to them. So as far as making the movie goes, it seems like there's something smart that you've done here, which is you're working with a lot of people that you know, including family. You're working with a company that knows what this is. And it's only like two or three settings. Yeah. So it's that old trick of like write a movie in a house. Yes. And then you don't have to go to 10 locations. There you go. And but you have to make it not feel claustrophobic. Exactly. And basic. Yeah. So did you know that you have to start at that place or did it evolve over time since the sounds like the story evolved a little bit over time?

The story evolved a little bit, but we always knew it was going to be primarily one, you know, main location with a couple chances of escape. I've seen a lot of bad indies that all take place in one house. I was kind of like, all right, I get it. You got a cabin and you shot a movie. But we kind of hope that the subject matter and this kind of concept of, you know, the government is making people crazy was big enough to make the movie feel bigger. So even though it is, you know, contained, it does feel like the world's ending a little bit. And in terms of, you know, the actual physical look of the movie, that was something I was very kind of.

of because we get eyewored very fast. And the nature of the movie, the movie starts off. The first half of the movie is, you know, you get the feeling like you're just watching like a family, you know, dark comedy about politics and the holidays. And then the movie really kind of takes this turn where the external evil forces, or you can call them evil or good depending on where we live. I don't think anybody's takeaway is going to be that they're good. Yeah, yeah, right.

But they show up. and the movie starts to take this darker, more violent tone. And so to kind of match the look to the story, you know, as the movie progresses, the frames are getting tighter and tighter. And the colors are getting a little deeper and darker. And you really do kind of, I feel like, if you took a, you know, a still photo from, you know, minute 34 of the movie and minute 91 of the movie, it looks totally different.

And again, that was a challenge, too, of maintaining. a cohesive, you know, structure to it. But it was something that we, you know, we knew that if we did it the wrong way, it would be, you know, looked upon as kind of boring or just claustrophobic. And we really tried to make it not just visually appealing, but also just tonally and story-wise, too. I'm interested in you as a news consumer, though, because that's a huge part of this story. And it sounds like, you know, as you say, you're on Twitter, you're sharing your opinions all the time. you presumably are at least somewhat consumed by the day's news all the time.

The character that you play is overwhelmingly consumed by this stuff. Too much. And I know this person that you're portraying to some extent. And there's something about that person that I identify with and there's something about it that repulses me. And I'm wondering about how you reconcile that feeling of I should be paying attention to this versus why is this running my life? Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm just now starting to find the balance a little bit.

But it's unquestionable that for almost two years, three years between, you know, 2015 and 2018, I was completely consumed. I think a lot of people were. You know, again, circumstances are just so crazy and the stakes are so high. And crazy shit is happening. You know what I mean? Probably today. Right.

When we're done recording this pod, we're going to find out that, Like he's going to pardon OJ for a crime. He wasn't even fucking convicted of it. I don't even know. That would be newsworthy. Yeah. Overload is true. You can get very overloaded and it's very bad.

And when I sat down and write the movie, I consciously had the news on all day. And that's the worst thing you can do, I think. The real problem I have with it is started kind of like affecting my personal life. Not just my mood. Like when you wake up and the first thing you do is check and you see that Trump has tweeted something fucking insane, you get mad right away. like 6.30 a.m. It's not good. And definitely was affecting my relationships with, you know, my family and stuff, you know, I'm a dad, you got to be present. You can't let a news story that you have no direct effect on right now. There's nothing you can do about it. You can't let that just constantly be on

your mind and stuff. So I knew that, I knew that Chris, the character I play, was going to have this, was going to be endowed with this horrible quality, right? What I wanted to do with Chris is, I didn't set out to make a movie that is for both sides. Because at the end of the day, I don't think it's really even sides anymore. You know what I mean? It's like here's what I think is happening. And basically I wanted to show everyone warts and all. Okay.

Yeah, there's something interesting about being self-critical while also being aware of the fact that there is a true north that's okay to say. Like there's a way to do things and be in the world, even though the people who are on the side that you're theoretically on are just like unbearable, as you say. They're unbearable. And they're never going to, every argument's in bad faith. and they acknowledge that they don't care about facts as much.

And I'm not worried about them because they're already, they're not coming back. And so I just wanted to show a story about the rest of the people who I think are on all sides of this political spectrum, right? I'm not talking about like, like, there's a lot of conservatives that I know and respect who think this is insane what's going on. So I wanted to make sure that it didn't come off like a partisan porno. Were there movies that you watched or were citing when you were working on it or when you were putting the cast together that you said, this isn't this is an inspiration for this or this is the kind of tone I'm searching for it. Yeah. I definitely, children of men really honestly did kind of, I just remember that day having it on just thinking like, fuck, this is a good, this is just such a good starting off.

Point that movie and I want to just go back. I want to go back a little more. So definitely children of men. Not one of the funniest movies I've ever seen. Well, it depends. No, no, there's not one funny moment there's not, I'm trying to think. There's literally not one funny moment in that whole movie. Oh, no, Michael Cain farts.

Oh, yeah, that's good. That's kind of funny. I mean, it's not like the greatest joke, but it's pretty good. What did you like about that movie, though? Just that you love that setting and the way that that story is told and... It's the desperation of the people there, just trying to hold on to some semblance of the world that's so decayed. You know, I remember a long time ago seeing a movie called Mrs. Miniver. Oh, sure.

famous movie from 19, oh gosh, 46, something like that, yeah. Greer Garson. And I definitely always think about that movie as almost like two different movies that are weaved together very well. And the first one is kind of like life in this pastoral English countryside. And oh my gosh, and the new bike shop opened. And then like it turns crazy. Like this Nazi shows up and she hides him and they fight and kill them.

So that was another one that was kind of in my head a little bit. I love Robert Altman. I love Mash. I love something about the antic style of Mash. And like one of my favorite jokes, and it's not even a joke, it's just this funny moment in mash when Hot Lips is touring the surgery tent and the surgeons are working and they're just covered in blood. She goes, how's it going over here? And a guy goes, are you kidding? And I just think that kind of finding those funny, true moments in times of crisis and blood and violence are, if you do them the right way, it can be really enjoyable for the moviegoer.

As I said, I think this movie is very good. but did you know how hard it would be to hit that tone? Because it's like the narrowest tightrope to walk on. It's a tough one. It's a tough one. And we see moments of that in movies we like in Manchester by the sea. After that, like, horrible scene with fire, like, I don't remember they can't get the ambulance door closed. I remember, like, I had fucking tears draining my face and I laughed.

So I think it's easier to do moments. And the challenge was, can we make a 90-minute movie where, especially, in the last 45 minutes we're asking people to go from like, holy shit to, you know, there were a couple scenes that were a little more challenging, but I just think,

you know, in editing, my editor is a guy named Jack Price, who's just amazing. And when he showed me his assembly, the thing we were worried about going in was, would the tone work? And after seeing just the assembly, we're like, I think it worked.

When you're working on a tone like this, are you explaining to the actors beforehand? This is how it's going to be? Is it in the moment you have to feel it out and figure out like bigger here, quieter here? I mean, maybe some of the minutia in the small moments, yeah, I could not have gotten luckier. You got a crazy good cast. And they all kind of from Jump Street just got what the movie was. And, you know, I spoke to all of them, you know, before we started and told them, you know, what I was going for and how we are trying to strike this balance between, you know, dark and funny and scary and sad.

and they all are just A students and just kind of nailed it. But, I mean, there's always just like small adjustments in the moment. But I was just so blown away by what they all brought. It made my job a lot easier. Let's talk about them a little bit. So, you know, I think the folks who play your parents are wonderful. Your real-life brother plays your brother in the film. He's wonderful.

Meredith Hagner is hilarious. Tiffany Haddish, of course, plays your wife. She's now very famous. I don't know if she was as famous when you guys were making this. Oh, she was not. So that's a great break for you. No, no, no. Sorry, she was famous when we were making this.

She was not famous when I wrote it for her. Oh, interesting. I had seen her for like moments. Actually, we were in a movie together called Meet the Spartans. Oh, yeah. I know that movie, yeah. That's like a parody kind of movie. Yeah, I think I played a, it's the classic scene where Dane Cook is a contestant on

American Idol and gets thrown into the pit of hell. That classic. That classic scene. I think it was just included in the AFIs. I'm just kidding. Those guys are great. I saw her. The first time I really saw her and she took me was in Keanu.

I thought she was so, first of all, I love that movie. And I thought she was so great and so real and so tough. And I think that's the word that I always just come back to her is just authentic, man. She's incapable of being false. So right when I saw Keanu, I was like, oh, I would love to be her husband in a movie. That's a fun energy right there. And when I first started writing the movie and I conceived of Guy, she was the first person in my head. We have the same manager, and I never met her.

And I was like, hey, I, you know, really am going to write this for her. And he was like, cool, she's, you know, I think might have a big summer. She did this movie. She's great. And I was like, great, whatever. And then Girl's Trip came out, and it was this huge hit. I thought she was going to honestly blow off the meeting. And she's going on a yacht with Steven Spielberg.

And she, you know, she came to the set of the Mindy Project. And we sat and we talked and had like a long, long talk about, you know, not just our lives, but, you know, what's happening in the country and her take on it. And we got very deep. and she's like, okay, I'll do it. And, you know, people say I'll do it all the time, and they back out, you know.

But God bless her, man. She showed up in a big way, and just she blew us away. It's a totally different side of her, I think. It's a pretty dramatic part. It is. It's a heavy part. And, you know, her character in it is,

it's a little bit inspired by my own wife, who we could not be more on the same side, politically, socially, everything. But I was making her fucking crazy. I was, I remember, I told her one morning at like 6.18 a.m. I read something that the president had done. And I said, this country is lost. And she goes, I am breastfeeding your daughter at 6.18 a.m. That is heavy, man. And I was like, you're right. And so I kind of used her as the basis.

And I think Tiff does a great job at kind of the first half of the movie. She's very contained. And she's trying to, like, support her husband, even though he's driving her crazy. And she's, you know, biting her tongue a lot. And a lot of, like, I know that my wife, is going to need an eye surgery because she rolls her eye so much when I walk out of the room, you know, because I'm just crazy. And then, you know, she blows and she turns into this just insane force of nature. And she's doing all of it just to keep her family safe. And, you know, the message of the movie is we can't allow external forces to affect our internal core. That was really kind of the main message of the movie while we're making it.

And everything Kai does in that movie, she's doing for her daughter. She's doing for her husband. And she is so real. Hey, guys, let's take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsor. Today's episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by Warby Parker. Here's a new concept in eyewear. Contemporary eyeglasses that are extremely affordable and fashion forward. Glasses should be viewed as a fashion accessory,

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to map and measure key facial features. Using their measurements, Find Your Fit recommends approximately 12 where we park or frames that are likely the best fit for your face. I use this process, it is seamless and takes only a few seconds. Check it out. Okay, now back to my interview with Ike Barronholz. I want to send a quick shout out to two other actors. One, there's like a little bit of a John Cho moment happening.

Oh, my God. And he's really, really funny in this movie. You see searching, by the way? I did. Fantastic. A niche the director was here last week. Yeah. That movie was great, by the way.

Really, really awesome. The other person is Billy Magnuson, who's like now with a little bit of a thing and is amazing in your movie. He should be a thing. He should be a movie star, I think. He is. Feels like it, right? Yeah. So that part, the cast really is basically just my family.

And then there's these two, you know, guys that show up from the CPU, which is basically my version of what if this mandate was put into place or the suggestion, was put in a place, who would enforce it? So this is basically like our version of like ice, for lack of a better comp. And I knew right away I wanted John Cho. I knew I wanted show. I've known Cho for a long time. I have always just thought he is one of the most watchable actors in the world.

And there's something in real life, he's like the nicest guy. But even on camera that just drips off of him, he's just nice. And I really wanted the character of Peter to be like a nice civil servant who's kind of mixed up in the room. He's at the wrong place at the wrong time. And so Cho, and he came on board right away, and we couldn't believe that he joined us, and he is so good in the movie. But for the other part, the part of Mason, who's, for a lack of a better with a bad guy of the movie, I'd say. That part went through a big evolution.

You know, initially when I wrote it, it was an older guy. It was, in my mind, like Michael Rooker or Stephen Lang, you know, a tough old angry. white guy. Then Charlottesville happened. And, you know, I will never forget watching footage of it that night. And I think I said to my wife, I said, these are all fucking kids. These are all young, young

guys, man. Very quickly, the whole concept of the character changed and it went from being, and instead of being like an aggrieved old ex-cop, he's a young guy. And so there was a couple names floating around, but early on, someone pitched Billy Magnuson

who I'd seen I'd see him on like Boardwalk Empire. He was on that. And he had, you know, he was in the big short. He had a little thing. He was great as Cato Caelin. But I loved his look. He's got that blonde hair, blue-eyed, you know.

And the character is not like a white nationalist, but he's someone who probably knows white nationalists. And I met with him. He's a real actor. You know, it's like a real New York theater actor. And, you know, he, we talked for a minute or so and, you know, broke down the character. and really got into kind of his backstory of why he's so angry

and why he's relishing this, this power he has and the growth that he'll kind of go through a little bit. And he was on board. And he really blew everyone away. I couldn't believe what he looked like when he showed up because he's very handsome. Yeah.

He looks like shit in my movie. He looks unhealthy and he's got that awful mustache and like bad spiked hair. And he really like, he's one of those transformer type guys. He's really, really good. I think he's going to jump out to people when they see it. Let's talk a little bit more about directing.

What was the most surprising thing for you when you were actually doing it? You had done Mindy, but doing a movie is a little different. This was a small movie. Shot it in 19 days. That's fast. That's really fast. And, you know, the thing that it didn't even really surprise me, I kind of knew it was coming, but it was just more intense than I anticipated,

was how much moving around, how you never stop. Like, even when you direct a TV, show. Like, you know, you set up the shot, but there's like a minute or so at downtime. You could make a phone call, have lunch. But like, when you're doing a movie like this, especially a small movie, you basically are just nonstop walking, right? You rehearse and then you have to hang back and, you know, talk to your DP and set up a shot and then walk over to your line producer who tells you the bad news about the next day. Then you got to kind of walk around and take a look at the stunt guy who's, you know, they've been building the stunt, and then you walk into

the actor's room where they're all hanging out because you've got to bond with the them because you're in the cast as well. So it was really just, I think it was just the amount of work that really, I was like, this is hard. Every day, at the end of the day, I was so just ready to have a beer and just like think about my mistakes and stuff. I look forward to my next movie having a little bit more time. Is your plan, your strategy here now to be a filmmaker as your primary gig? I think so. I, you know, I never know how to answer. Like, whose career would you want to have. I think ideally, if you're able to do something where once a year you're able to make a movie, maybe it's a small movie like this, you know, or maybe it's like a big studio comedy

and still, you know, actively be trying to get like a TV show going and stuff. It's, I like writing. Like my, my happy place is, is when I'm sitting either with my writing partner or even by myself and just writing. And now that I've directed this movie, I'm confident I could direct to any movie that I would be in. So, yeah, I definitely want to do it again. Hopefully people like the movie enough that they let me do it again. You got to cut that deal right now. I have to, you know, when I get off the phone,

I'll be making a phone call to one, Jared Levine, and I'll tell him to shake the cages. But, yeah, it's exhilarating, and I'm about to enter, I think, what might be the worst part of it, which is the release, right? There's five aspects. There's the writing, the shooting, the editing,

the promotion, and the release. and the release is going to kill me a little bit just because it is a movie that just there will be some people that have strong reactions to it. And you know what I mean? Like it is. So will you be reading like the Daily Callers review of this film? Like how is that going to play out for you?

Like what will you engage with? First of all, it's ridiculous. Is there anything more annoying than a daily caller? Hey, it's me calling again. Yeah, no. They're going to, people like that, they're going to come at it. But what about everything? Like, well, are you really interested in the,

reviews? Are you concerned about the box office? Like, how do you think they'll engage with all that stuff? No, the box office stuff, in my mind, once I'm done going, I'm going to 13 cities, right, to have screenings and Q&As and meet people and stuff. That's fun. Once that, I can't wait. I can't wait. I'm so excited. Like, I put it on, like, Facebook and like there's so many people that I went to high school with that are living across the country. I'm very excited. But once that's done, there's nothing else I can do. So the box office, you kind of have to remove. And I'm typically not someone who reads reviews, especially in the past. because it was out of my control.

You know what I mean? Like, I'd read a couple, you know, the big newspaper reviews, and if they liked me, they were right. And if not, they were idiots. But now there's a little more, you know, riding on it so much more personal. Like, you know, when you make a movie like this, which is especially about, like, very loosely based on, like, the worst version of my life.

It's so personal, and you're inviting people to look, you know, come to my window, watch my family. And so I just hope people like it. Let me ask you one other thing about when you're making the movie and the news was happening in real time. Were you concerned that something would happen that would mess with the reality or the necessity or the credibility of the movie?

The only thing that could happen in the news that would disrupt this movie is a nuclear bomb, right? Someone said to me like, if he gets impeached, your movie might not be so relevant. And I was like, I will trade never watch another movie ever again. I will literally never watch a movie. Bold claim.

Can I watch TV, though? I can watch TV. I'm not setting the rules here. I would give up either movies or television if he would go away. Okay. This is a fascinating parlor game. I'll take this to drinks tonight. This is a good one.

But so, yeah, I wasn't too worried about that. I think, like, I think the reality is it's going to stay bad and then it's going to get worse for a little bit. Probably true. And then, you know, look, it's impossible to prognosticate anything now. If you told me that you are 100% positive next week, Donald Trump is going to leave the White House, I'd be like, okay, he might. If you told me Donald Trump is going to be king for life, I'd be like, okay, he might. I just don't know anymore. So I couldn't even let that affect me.

We just kind of looked into more as just like, holy shit, this is happening. Like there was something called like the National Oath Day or something, which is actually something that's been around for a long time. But of course, Trump's the first president to be like, and there's a whole day for it. And we were like, holy shit. It really more, the news cycle really kind of inspired us at a certain point. We're just like, oh my God, let's let's hurry. Let's get this thing out because it just, it seems like very of the moment. I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about the concept of studio movie comedies.

Yes. You were in one this year. You've been in a few. They've been mostly successful. Yeah. But it's been kind of a theme in the conversations. Kay Cannon was here earlier this year. You know, Game Night was pretty successful.

But there's a little bit, it's thinking. feels a little different now. It does. This movie doesn't necessarily perfectly slot into that idea, although it has really more in common with a movie like Get Out than it does blockers.

Yes, definitely. But I'm just curious as somebody who makes these movies and has participated, if it feels like the playing field is different, are there fewer opportunities for somebody like you?

There was definitely a moment. I feel like we starting kind of with Zoolander and kind of ending maybe around neighbors. There was this feel of a studio comedy. Totally they went from more outrageous

like Zoolander and Stepbrothers to a little more grounded like neighbors and whatnot. But it felt like, I don't know what quite changed, but I think they had a string of them that just weren't working. And even though they kind of still

say, oh, comedy's not work, I think you look at, you know, lockers and game night, and even I feel pretty did really well. Like, they do do, they do make money. They don't make Infinity War money, but they do do well. You know, I've heard a lot of excuses for it.

I've heard some people say, well, TV's so funny now that people get their TV, their comedy from TV. And, you know, I still believe that it just takes one movie to kind of reignite the whole thing, right? You had, you know, the hangover kind of re-kickstart everything. And, you know, the hangover begat bridesmaids, which begat neighbors. And it just takes that one movie that's the right combination of funny people. people who the public like an accessible idea and like a good script. And you could still have that elusive $50 million comedy weekend opening. I really think you could do that.

It just needs to, I think, thread a lot of needles. It needs to be very inclusive. And it needs to, like I said, be like a concept that is just like accessible. Like the reality is, is blockers and Game Night while accessible. could have been more accessible. Not these stories, but like stories like them, right? Like, yes, we've all had a game night, but not everyone's had a game night, you know? And like with Blockers, like, yes, prom is a theme and parents are a theme, but, you know, sex packs quite aren't a real thing.

Not a universally known concept. So I still think there are, you know, once that one movie comes out that just perfectly hits those zones and opening weekend is like $44 million, then, And it's just the studios kind of like, oh, shit, let's just start, you know, waking up again. But I do think there are, you know, I know of a few, you know, projects in the work right now that are, you know, definitely comedy with a capital C that studios are like, let's do it. I think the days of a comedy with a budget over $50 million are done just because the risk is too much, you know, unless it's like a huge action comedy with like, I don't know. It's got to be Ghostbusters. It's got to be Ghostbusters. It's got to be Ghostbusters.

I still think that the content dictates it, and you find the right one. All of a sudden, we're back in it. Great segue. I end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers, what's the last great thing that they have seen, and you are now a filmmaker?

So what's the last great thing you've seen? The last great thing I've seen, I really, really loved Crazy Rich Asians. Yeah, tell me about it. I just thought it was, I didn't know what to expect. I thought it was going to be just all camp, and there was so much heart in it. It's more a drum.

weirdly than it is like a rom-com or a comedy or... Yeah, there's funny moments and stuff, but she is such a good actor that Constance Wu. And if you don't have the right person in that part, I think a lot of people would be like, just marry him. He's hot and he likes you. Fuck his mom.

But you can see her issues with it and why it was so troubling. She was so great. But the thing that really I keep going back to is I fucking loved eighth grade. Yeah. I thought what Beau did was so. so nuanced and just simple. And I was devastated by that movie.

I cried so hard at like three different moments. And my wife kept walking out of the room to deal with a kid. She would come back in. And I would be like my eyes were just like puffed out. And I was like sobbing like like yeah, it was crazy. So I just thought that movie was so beautiful. It's the one that's just kind of really just sitting with me the most right now. Still like a month after I saw it.

It's a wonderful answer. The Oath is still sitting with me. Ike, thanks for doing this. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks again to Ike Barronholz, and thanks to you for listening to this week's episode of The Big Picture. If you like conversations like this, we have quite a few good ones coming up, including an upcoming conversation with Damien Chazel, which Bill Simmons and I will be doing later this week, and you can find that on his feed somewhere down the line. He's obviously directed a new film called First Man, which I wrote about on The Ringer.com.

And on next week's show, I had a very fun, long, fascinating conversation with Jonah Hill, who like Ike Barronholz and Ethan Hawke and other people who have been on the show recently, is an actor-turn director in his first film mid-90s. He's coming out next week, so tune in then, and you can hear us talking about that. Thanks again for listening.