The Press Box - The Pusha-T-Drake Mess With a Dash of Kim Kardashian on the Side | Jam Session (Ep. 475)

Episode Date: May 30, 2018

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman and Amanda Dobbins are joined by Justin Charity to break down the current feud going on between Pusha-T and Drake, including Pusha-T’s diss track alleging Drake has a secret child (1:32) and what this will mean for the future of the rappers' careers (14:26). Then they breakdown the other feud of the weekend between Kim Kardashian West and Rhymefest over Donda’s House (29:18) and Kardashian’s trip to the White House to discuss prison reform (34:05). More from The Ringer: Pusha-T Finally Became a Star by Being a Scourge Rap Beef Emergency: Drake vs. Pusha-T Drake Lost: The Ruthlessness of Pusha-T’s Ferocious Diss Track Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome of Jam session. Man, it was a busy weekend and a busy Tuesday in the celebrity world. I'm Juliet Litman. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And we have with us, Mr. Justin Charity. Hi, Justin. Hello. It's the big jamage control. Jammage control crossover that everyone's been waiting for. It's not a damage control week, but we had to talk to you about this push-a-tie Drake mess with a dash of Kim Kardashian on the side. So let's just get right into it. It's the hidden baby episode. The hidden baby episode. Amanda, why don't you explain to us where we are and what it means that it's the hidden baby episode? Oh, boy. I mean, Justin has the best impression. Justin, could you do it for us?

You are hiding a child. Right. Yes. So, I mean, I've just been yelling at random people who are now very scared for 24 hours now. But on Tuesday, in the latest installment of a rapidly. escalating beef between Drake and Pusha Tea. Puscher released a track called The Story of Adonon will come back to that name. And my goodness, was it cruel and vicious and personal and involved many swipes at various aspects of Drake's personal life?

But the one that is obviously making the most headlines is the secret baby that Drake apparently has. Has your baby mother. Cleaned her up for IG, but the stenches on her. A baby's involved. It's deeper than rap. We talk in character. Let me keep with the facts. You are hiding a child.

Let that boy come home. Okay. This is a lot. Secret Children is an interest of mine for celebrities. It's an interest of everyone. Continue. Yes, that's true. I have a really hard, but I just really hate absentee parents.

Like, it just really bothers me. And you and Pusha T. Yeah, me and Pusha. And so this was really, really upsetting to me. Justin, how did you take this news? The news came from the song, but then he also was on Funkmaster Flex radio show yesterday, right? Right. So it came, like, in a tidy package to us.

Right. It came in a highly stylized and dramatized package since it came via Funkmaster Flex premiering a disc record against trade. Is this the most relevant flex has been in a long time? Oh, my God, yes. When's the last time he mattered? Well, he's mattered in bad ways. He mattered during the Drake Meek-Milfewed when he tried to do the same maneuver premiering Meek's disc record, but Meek's disc record against Drake was bad.

And so Funkflex just looked really bad and stupid because I think he had like four hours worth of delays before he premiered the record. And then years ago he went on that weird rant, that weird like hour-long rant against Jay-Z where he like leaked Jay-Z's text messages on the radio. The best part about this was after the flex debut. It started a separate conversation among everyone over 30 at the ringer, just reminiscing about old flex debuts from literally like 10 years ago, which was just all of us showing our age,

which in a way I do kind of feel this whole saga is about a bunch of older people showing their age and being like, finally, the old people are back and doing interesting things. But yeah, continue. Also, I think that feuds and beefs, between celebrities, certainly had never gone away, but this is a delivery of a feud that us wash people, like, understand and recognize. Yeah.

And so it's, like, really comforting. It's like, what's old is new again? We're like, yes, let's go. All the internet babies, their feelings are hurt. They didn't know this happens, so you can be rude. And it's sort of like receipts not necessary because here's the disc track. It's just sort of like, no, this is not about, like, shading each other or liking an Instagram picture.

It's like, I'm going to come at you. Yes. Okay. So we interrupted. Flex debuted the big song. Justin, continue. Well, so Funkmaster Flex debuts the song. Then the song sort of quickly ends up on SoundCloud.

And simultaneously, Push a T starts tweeting. And he, the cover image online on SoundCloud for the song is unfortunately an old photo. I think it's from 2008 of a photo of Drake in Blackface, which is not great. And it was very jarring to see because I've just, I've never seen it. It's like a public photo. It's been on a website just chilling for a decade. And I've never seen it before. And it's so over the top.

Yeah. And we'd never seen it. So everyone at first assumed that it was Photoshop or faked. And then push a tea tweets and he says, I am, what is, he uses the exact phrase. I'm not an internet baby. Right. I don't Photoshop. Like, I don't know how to.

I'm 41. I'm a 41 year old ex drug dealer. I didn't Photoshop this. It's a, it's a, real photo. Get at me. How do Pusha T. know about that picture?

That's one of my primary questions. I mean, this whole thing is just that Pusha knows how to Google and apparently no one else does. No, I don't, that photo is too deep for Google, though. Sure, but artists' websites are not optimized

for search. That's true. They don't have metadata. I think all of this is a little bit that, and like including everything about the hidden child, is that he obviously has contacts and people who are pushing, who are tipping him off to things, but everything was on the internet.

All of this was available, and he's just making use of the material available to him in interesting and remarkable ways. That's a lot of what Robert Mueller is doing, the Mueller investigation. Like, I don't think that that means. I don't mean to diminish it. It's art. It's exhilarating. But, I mean, it was there.

It was all available for us. Right. So the child, that's... That's been rumored, right? Like, that's not, that's not brand new. No. TMZ, BASA, BET. And I don't claim that, like, I was up on every aspect of this before yesterday.

Me neither. Justin, were you? I wasn't. I'm curious about why I wasn't. I'm curious about why, again, even though there are breadcrumbs, there is reporting about, there is reporting about Drake's girlfriend or baby mama and... I checked out her Instagram. I'll tell you about it later. Yeah. It's weird because they're a news report.

or their gossip reports, but it just seems like it never really lodged itself in the consciousness, even of like avid Drake followers. And I'm curious about why that's played out. Well, I mean, I think that's avid Drake followers is very separate from people who read TMZ and know how to use the signals. And, you know,

I had missed this TMZ report, but it's there from, I believe, May of last year. And it involves like alleged text messages that she leaked to TMZ. she's hired a lawyer. So it's on the more credible scale as far as TMZ. I mean, Juliette and I, this whole podcast is about how TMZ is usually right. But there's clearly something there, even if there's not actually like a paternity test. So I don't know why we all missed it.

Drake fans just only want to see, you know, happy. Yeah. Yeah, I think. I think this speaks to the reason. why we can speak to well we talk a lot I talk about we talk about

emo Drake versus Anthem Drake Drake and sort of the various phases of him and I think the reason why we don't know about Dad Drake is because of his really carefully cultivated images and he is like

he's just really good at the new millennium he's really good at dropping a song at the right time he's really good at using lyrics to obscure other truths about him or the music industry

like he's a real like wordsmith, which is kind of interesting that he's getting owned on a disc track because I think of him as being like really good at lyrics. And I guess that is the drama about Drake, right? And that's how this started about him using a ghost writer. Right. But he has this Drake in

general, like you're saying, has this absolute narrative control that the really scathing thing about push a T anchoring a disc track in the revelation that he has a secret child, it is the ultimate version of taking Drake's narrative

control away from him. Because now the conversation isn't just, oh, what is the track that Drake has to go in the studio and immediately record now? Like, I imagine first he has to talk to his baby mom. Like, he has to make phone calls before he can go into a studio now. Like Busha kind of actually seems to have affected his life a little bit. People are going to be checking into financial records and where that child support is going, etc.

Yeah, he has problems outside of image control or... I mean, he's got life issues now. Exactly. Which possibly he always did and just wasn't acknowledging them. Sure. But his brand is so, so much of Drake's music is a host for ideas about his personal narrative and his personal brand. And now it's like his music suddenly has to account for the fact that we very suddenly know he has a secret child. And I don't know how he does that.

I don't know how his music in general will accommodate for this. Yeah, that's a good question. Like, do we have to reevaluate Drake altogether? No. He has a secret family. I mean, sure. Listen. Is a fresh porn star Normie?

It's a painter now, by the way. A painter. But what I'm saying is that relative to, because I think otherwise, you know, in so much as we pay attention to Drake's relationships, it's like Drake and Rihanna, right? Like that's a different paradigm, a different context for understanding Drake's romantic life compared to a relatively normie civilian. who in those paparazzi photos, Drake seems vaguely kind of humiliated to be seen with. Sure. That just feels so different. Yeah, I think that also, I mean, Drake, you know, I only love my bed and my mama is sort of like, well, what about your kid?

I mean, I just think that he really predicated. You're a pressure. We have push it in the stupid. I just told you I'm really let down. This is a cardinal sin to me. I just hate when, like, there's two. This just comes up a lot of NBA players, and so I just can't get over it so quickly. But I just think that he really predicates himself on being true to who he is and like I'm doing Drake.

Totally, totally. And that is less fun now. Absolutely. And that is, oh, I kind of think it's more fun, but we'll come back to that. That is changed immediately and permanently. And it's like basically a 180. He can't be who, he can't be the Drake of like 40 hours ago. You can't make Caroline bling with the secret.

Family. Well, you can make hotline leave a secret family. A lot of people are probably doing a lot of things with secret families right now. That's just like another thing. Look for the person with a secret family in your life because it's probably true. But no, it's, he can't be who he was with this knowledge out in public and also just the way it was revealed and the way that he was so completely like eviscerated. Yeah. He stepped into it.

And I think also what's going to be so interesting. interesting is how all of his internet baby fans react to him going forward. Because I think that'll also change who he is and what he can do. The Drake fan relationship has become really symbiotic in a way that will now be different, I just think. Because, like, you saw it. All these 24-year-olds were just, like, a gas. Like, you can't say that about Drake.

Of course you can't. Like, grow up. Again, I'm just, I'm having fun. old people getting to say real shit, it's great. It's, I'm welcome back, like, 2000, whatever. Where does Drake go from here? I mean, that's a great question. What's a great question, if only because does he defend his secret family first,

or does he defend his parents? Because the third of the Push-a-T song is Push-a-T just roasting Drake's parents. Yeah, this is also, like, it's probably the third or fourth cruelest thing on the track, I would say. Yes. After the stuff about his mom and after this stuff about 40, which is just yikes, that's the part where I was like, maybe, can you go too far in these sorts of things? I don't know. I'm glad you brought up 40 because I actually do think that's too far.

I think that 40 has a degenerative illness. Sure. And we shouldn't. It's like not really fodder for a distract. Secret child, different. I agree with you. I personally think it's too far. I cringe.

I was like, ugh. That said, this is not. journalism or there's no decorum in these sorts of things. That's the whole point of this exercise is that there are no... I'm not defending it. It's rude. It's really, really rude, but it's part of the larger picture. It's part of what's happening here.

Yeah. What does this also mean for the Drake versus Kanye fight? Like, ha! Right. Because that's been ongoing too, right? I mean, really ignited over the weekend. We'll come back to Kim Kardashian. But like, do we give this as a win to Kanye who desperately needs wins?

No. No, do not play. He's not, I feel like he pushes so squarely wrestled the Kanye angle away from Drake on this particular song. I don't think this counts as a win for Kanye. It's also, Justin, as you pointed out, it's Wednesday. Kanye reportedly has an album coming out on Friday. Oh, yeah, is that real? Yeah, none of his care.

Do you care? No one guy. Yeah, I don't. Never cared less. They're like five people in Wyoming who are going to get to listen to it. And then, yeah, you know. Do you think that's actually coming? Yeah, I definitely think it's going.

You do? On Friday? Really? Do you have sources, Justin? I mean, the announcements on his Twitter, I don't know. I just believe it in this year. You weren't like in Wyoming and didn't tell us, though. No, no, no, no, no.

Okay. Man of the Woods. Strangely, I believe it, even though it seems like they're still working on the album now. That makes, yeah. We'll come back to Kanye, whether he's got an album coming or not in a few minutes. But do you think Push a T will, like, become popular, with the kids as a result of this, or is this just for the generation of people who love a good disc track?

This is for posterity. I don't think that Pusha T now enters a new echelon. Like, I think the only way that rappers move in that way is through hit records. And I think that Pusha T is still a particular kind of rapper of a particular age in a particular generation and sentiment and sensibility. And I think him eviscerating Drake doesn't really change his station in terms of a guy, Like who makes music. It maybe changes his station in the Twitter celebrity economy a little bit or a lot of it.

Yeah. I don't disagree. I do find the reaction to this to be so fascinating. And so people are really wrestling with it, which, again, is a sign of its success. But also there is a certain generation of people who are like, oh, well, so he won that one without questioning. And it doesn't seem like that's the case for the younger people. So it's hard to imagine him being. being embraced in such a way, just because they don't really know what to do with it. It's not how a younger generation understands.

Or celebrities. What about to grow up? Does it distract? Are they? I mean, I hope so. I've been waiting for a long time. Time marches forward, excellent. Does a disc track reach the Drake fans, or is this just for people who are like rap heads?

Are I asking you any questions about the discrets? No, it's great. It's all I've been talking about. It's all we've been talking about. That in Twitter burner accounts, which Drake fans have been in denial about bad music for 10 years. So I trust them to keep being in denial about this. Be honest. Be honest.

I have an embarrassing one if you would like me to go first. I know my favorite 40 beat is Headlines. Let's lift up 40's name. Headlines is the best 40 beat. It's really good. I love 40. I think I love 40 more than Drake. Ooh.

I mean, that's a good take because he's a great. producer. He's a great producer. I don't know what my favorite. I have to think about that. I don't know what my favorite Drake song is. Okay. Mine is shot for me. Oh, God. I would have... I could see it in your eyes. You're angry. Really good. Really good. Anyway, um, so you have a vendetta against Drake is what you're saying. Oh, too much is my favorite Drake song. Too much is really good. Really good. Love it. That's a unusual choice, too. I like it. Amanda, do you want to share yours? I'm trying to think. I don't know if I have one. I also like too good. while we're talking about two. Yeah, I was going to say, the Drake Rihanna Suite means a lot to me, and I think you've got to consider them, like, as one piece of music.

You know, the way that, like, the Beatles medley on Abbey Road is now considered one song. So I think we can just put all of the Drake Rihanna songs together. I also just love, just hold on, we're going home. Oh, yeah. It's great. I'm glad you brought up Drake. Because the other thing that's, like, really shattered is Drake being, like, a one-woman man, where he's like, you know, my mama, Rihanna.

Right. Who else? Serena had the Serena Williams moment. Like, he's really good. Oh my God. I forgot about Serena. I had blocked that out. Those photos.

Wow. The Drake curse when she lost. Yeah. Wow. How did I just, that whole part of my brain fell out. Serena's an inspiration. She, you know, she ended up, even though he seems like he's kind of lame, she just ended up with the guy who adores her.

and they've got a really cute baby. Like, that's how it should be when you're Serena Williams. It's true. You should be adored. And Drake was like, Drake made it seem like they, like, could be a thing. Right. But that was all an act.

I think that's... Also, you know what? Serena loves her baby, so... Yeah. Her baby's so cute. Yeah. A little Pia. Yeah.

I love her. I mean, that... The whole thing is, like, Drake's image cultivation, like his music or not, there's just been, like, a shattering of the glass. And it's like, you can see behind the mirror for the first time, I think. Yeah.

Which, so, Charity, I want to talk to you a little bit about this, because a lot of people have just been like this was a massive strategic error by him. Like, he just should have seen this coming, which I would agree with. But it also seems like,

you know, he was flying a little too close to the sun. You know, something like this was bound to happen eventually. I don't know. Yes. Yes. I agree with that.

Like, because of the, I would say, specifically post, if you're reading this too late, Drake, is so defined. But,

I mean, push a team, makes fun of this on the song where he says, let's talk about why your music in the past few years is angry and full of lies. It's like post, if you're reading this too late, Drake, takes on this very sharp, dark arrogance. And yeah, it's an arrogance that he designed to sort of put the final nail in the coffin of people even thinking about the fact that he's like some smiling child actor from Canada. But it's also he leaned so hard into it that I think you're right that he inevitably was going to wreck him. like this because he's just not he does not seem built to beef with a 41 year old drug dealer from Virginia with braids like it just doesn't yeah it's true this is never going to go well

I don't know yeah it did he just also like I don't know Drake Drake is a I just feel disappointed guys I'm just letting my feelings you feel disappointed in Drake I feel disappointed in Drake and what are you disappointed about just the child support I get that yeah it's really bad Yeah, it's bad. I mean, that was, again, like, then Pusher goes on Breakfast Club this morning and is like, I don't even hang with my friends who are not right with their child support. Like, I'm about kids. Which is incredible.

I mean, how do you not love Pusha T after that? It's great. He said, y'all can't be around. You got to get that sorted out before you hang around me. You can't have child support issues and be in my circle. That was crazy. That's a crazy quote to get to. That's awesome, though.

Like, shout out to you. That should be the standard. I don't know. There's too many. celebrities who I'm just like how do you have time for your children I know that you don't yeah and so I I appreciate it yeah and like Drake has all the money in the world it's it's pretty good I guess I have to be a push a tea fan listen have to yeah yeah I mean why do you why do you like him more and I and like this is a safe space we're sharing feelings why do I like

Drake or you said you thought it was fun you thought I don't like Drake more no I I mean I I find my feelings, I guess my feelings about Drake are changed, but my interest in and enjoyment of stuff is unchanged. I mean, this is pretty callous. This is like the worst side of me, but it's fine. Let's just talk about it. Okay, great. This is really fun, and this is, you know, some of this is just basic fatigue of we have spent the last year or two years. And many of us our whole lives, just doing the serious, important.

things and, you know, we have to have another serious conversation about X, Y, Z. And this is obviously serious to a few people, but this is quite something. And it's not, like, world issues aren't on the line, if that makes any sense. Yeah. So it, there is a little bit more. There's levity. There's a little bit more room for levity. And I don't mean to make light of everyone involved in this. And especially with 40, I feel bad about saying that. But the other part of this is that just so much is bullshit all the time and even so much of celebrities and image management and all of the nonsense that we watch. People are just fake. And this was cruel, but it was just expertly done. And I got to watch, I was slacking with Justin when he listened to it and just got to kind of experience that

reaction. I went into people's offices just to watch them listen to it and watch their eyes go wide and that moment of like holy shit he said that was I don't know it's kind of fun it's invigorating it's something to talk about I like it I like that attitude I'm gonna adopt it and be less less disappointed because whatever it's an immoral attitude I'm aware of that is it a I mean I let's not worship idols you know maybe I'm wrong here why should I be holding drake up so high Amanda was with me when I first heard the song and I was watching the fourth estate which is the documentary about the New York Times covering Trump and I cut from that to listen to the push-a-tee song.

And I, listening to it, he's giving all these revelations, there's a secret child. And I thought this, too, is journalism. Push-a-T is a sort of journalism. I don't know. I enjoy it in that sense. I mean, he did dig up a lot, or not dig up, but he, like, assembled a portfolio, a dossier information. Right.

Yeah. I go back and forth on whether I think it is journalism or whether it is, is this responsible? I don't totally know. Absolutely not. He said Drake's dad is an Instagram thought who wears Steve Harvey's suits. Right. You know. No, it's not responsible.

It's not particularly moral. I'm not sure that I would do it. But there is something about having a space that is like totally irresponsible and disrespectful and like doesn't have to be held to the standards of journalism, et cetera, where it's just like finally we can all just say some rude stuff to each other. That in its way is a relief. I guess I'm a rude person. Here's one more thing I want to say. Okay. Let's hear it. It's just I really, really, really like that much of this is motivated just in defending Push's fiancé.

It's just like, all you do is briefly mention her and then like your world is on fire and I relate to that and I respect that. And that's fun for me too. Let's dive more into that and also significant others. Yeah. After talk about today's sponsor, Hotel Tonight. If you're the type that's always looking for a bigger, better deal, you've got to get the Hotel Tonight app. Hotel Tonight partners with awesome hotels to help them sell their unsold rooms, which means you get amazing deals. Their name is Hotel Tonight, but you can actually book in advance.

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I was trying to get to the beach last minute because Memorial Day means beach. I was able to find a perfect hotel on Hotel Tonight. And also I let someone else make the bed, which is the perfect treat. So, start scoring amazing deals. Credible Hotels and download the Hotel Tonight app now. Okay, Amanda, you brought up a great point. Yeah. Pusha is defending his lady.

Yeah. He's defending his honor. He's defending his world. He's defending his moon and his stars to use some Game of Thrones parliens or something. I relate. It is kind of sweet. It's sort of like what you would want Drake to be doing. If I do say so myself.

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, right? Is that he's out here. There is this whole talking point about how it's, once again, women are in their crosshairs of a wrap. half beef. And like, I get it. And it's not ideal. But also, there is a difference here between, like, I fucked your baby mama and why don't you deal with your own issues and also, like, possibly explore child support. Like, there's a difference. There's a difference. And especially

in defense of a relationship, I don't know. It's invigorating. I would, if I were actually a rapper and as good at journalism as push a tea is, I relate. I would want to do something like this. I couldn't, but I would. Amanda, maybe you should do a slam poetry book of disc tracks, but like dis-coms. Everyone who's ever slighted you or your husband. Yeah. There's a list, by the way. There's a list.

Of course. If you've even looked sideways, something's going to happen to you one day. Nice. I'm afraid of you. I will never look at you or your husband sideways. I don't know. That's why this is fun. But maybe people don't have the emotional register that I do.

Why do you think Deadbeat Drake mentioned Push's fiancé in the first place? Because that just seems like in retrospect, that is the tactical error that he made that just ruined it. It not only solicited Push-a-T eviscerating Drake's entire family. Right. But it also didn't really, it's made it difficult for Drake to respond. because he doesn't really have any sort of moral high ground to posture or gesture at in defending himself. Yeah, it's a total tactical error, and that's when he opened himself up. And I feel like we talk a lot about on this podcast with other issues of what's fair game in terms of celebrity and who is not necessarily a target, but like who has entered the arena and thus is fair game for scrutiny and who is kind of off limits.

and that's obviously always in debate and there are a lot of different ways to make that judgment call but if you are going to bring someone else's personal life into the conversation then it is, I mean it's fair game, I don't know, can you have fair game in these sorts of things?

But you definitely open the door. And it's like, I don't know how he didn't know what was coming. It's very stupid. I think I have a theory about rich kids which is you can always tell who they are because they act without consequence. And they just never think through like, oh, what if something bad happens? Right.

And I just feel like Drake has become a rich kid. And he, emphasis on kid because he's like not, doesn't, you know, he's like living the dream manchild life. And I think that he hasn't had an L really in a while. Like what's his last true L? Well, you mean outside of his bad music. Yeah, outside of what you said? Charity just unscrolled like a list. The length of.

Well, Rihanna... Swerving at him? But even that plays into a certain image of like, wow, Drake can't even get the girl or whatever. Yeah. It's still not the image he wants. Yeah, that's... Rihanna curving him and being very... Yeah.

Curving him is not what he wants. Even getting Rihanna's attention, though, is far, far better than being called out for being delinquent on trial. Is it, though? I've seen Rihanna drag a lot of people on Twitter who probably regret getting it to... Yeah, I also do feel like... we're not friends, but we're not not friends, which was the most recent quote on the situation, that stinks. That's not quite getting her attention.

That's being removed from her attention. While we're talking about relationships, I'd like to bring up Kim Kardashian, who's also out here defending her man. Oh, boy. Kanye West. So he was part of like phase one of this beef, which just feels like a couple, does that even matter anymore? Does Kim Kardashian's beef with Rimefest matter? Well, I actually, I might argue that. It matters in the life sense the most of all of this because there are the most people at stake in that particular beef.

And it's why actually I am not on Kim's side, even though she was, quote, defending her man. So in that sense, yeah, we should probably do a brief summary, right? Sure. So it started, my God, it started last Saturday. It started on Saturday, even though it feels like months ago, when Rhymefest tweeted. at Drake, when good music sends the money they owe you, will you please help us rebuild Kanye's mother's house for the youth of Chicago? I spoke to Kanye about it.

His response was, quote, fuck the youth of Chicago. So then this escalated. The next thing was Kim in a Twitter rant. Like five tweets. Yeah, throwing him under the bus for wearing fake easies and trying to get Kanye to listen. into some beats and telling him that he was full of shit. And so then Rimefest comes back with the whole story of basically how Kim and Kanye skipped out on Donda's house, which is like a charity that they had set up in Chicago.

And then Donda's house, I believe, got involved and changed their name. They did. They changed the name. They said it was very upsetting for them. Press releases were sent. Cross releases were tweeted. Yes. Right.

And now they have a new name. and it's just like about the youth of Chicago. Right. So they stripped themselves in the name of Danda. And even Kim had to come back and tweet again. She was explaining what happened after that. And here's the essential explanation. After several years of lack of performance from the organization and Kanye going through personal finance issues, he could no longer fund salaries.

Rimefest asked to take it over and Kanye agreed with no financial screens attached. So basically, after they started a charity and then couldn't make it work and could no longer fund it. and it basically failed. They passed it over to someone else, which, listen, I have spent this whole podcast being like, nothing matters and nothing is serious. But, like, I do think that trying the young people in Chicago actually do matter of and if you're going to do something to try to help people, you need to take it seriously or, like, get out of the conversation.

That's where I am. I also think that a lot of the defense of celebrities in general, particularly the Kardashians, is like, well, they're bad. They do, like, X, Y, and Z thing that are bad. but they contribute to charity. Like, they can bring attention to causes. That is largely bullshit.

Like, like, true for most celebrities, not just the Kardashians. And, like, most charities with a high overhead, you should not give your money to them because the money goes to,

like, supporting the business of running it and not, like, the people are supposedly helping. So I think it's, like, actually, like, very important to note that, like, while they, like, associate themselves with charities,

I keep saying your last name, they don't, they don't actually, like, do good. It's largely like just for show. Although my understanding with Donda's house is that Donna's house does youth training and community activism and it was, or it is, reasonably active in Chicago and it's run by Rhymfest's wife, Donnie Smith, and Rhymfest himself. And so I think, I don't know, when Kim first started tweeting, or I certainly a while after Kim first started tweeting,

I started thinking about, huh, they're talking about performance issues. They're talking about not being happy with the performance of Donda's house. I'm not sure that Kim Kardashian could even explain to me what she thinks Donda's house even does. And also, that's a good note because so much of

I think the way the Kardashian industries are run is like towards an end, an end goal of like, either like dollars or like some kind of commodity that you can tout. And a lot of the most important charity is not not end result base like that.

Meanwhile, Kim Kardashian is allegedly going to the White House today to meet with Donald Trump about a pardon for a close friend of hers who, or an older woman serving like a really harsh sentence for a drug charge, right? Right. Yes. And so we were talking about if Kanye's album is coming. I think no, because I don't think, I think prison reform is really important.

And I think that like the war on drugs is back and that is a really big issue. And it's great to be to be fighting that. I don't know if fighting it for one person is the right way to go about it. But that's kind of like besides the point. But in just a really cynical perspective, I don't know if that happens the same week that a new album is coming. Yeah, I definitely look at the White House visit as a, I don't necessarily think about it in the context of the Kanye album.

But I do my head, I initially thought, But this is Kim doing a sort of damage control following Kanye's initials right-wing explosion on Twitter, right? She's trying to – it just seems like a very look on the bright side type of PR move where she's like, at least I have access to Trump to advocate for somebody that the left will be sympathetic to. It just seems so basic. Could I share with you guys the origin of this visit as I understand it? or at least some aspects of it, because this apparently,

I'm reading from a May 1st piece on Mike.com that explains how Kim got involved with this particular case, Alice Marie Johnson. Please do. And I'm just reading from the article. Kardashian West first learned about Johnson's case from a Mike video published in October. Kardashian West shared it on Twitter

and the video has since been viewed eight million times, more than eight million times, shortly after Cardassian West became involved enlisting a team of lawyers, and then setting up this meeting apparently, and she's also been working with Jared Kushner, but I want to read the quote from Kim's interview with Mike about how she got involved in this case. There is a reason I was looking at my Twitter at that moment, Kardashian says. It's not like I'm on my phone all day long. I was meant to come across it. I've been in communication with the White House and trying to bring her case to the president's desk

and figure out how we can get her out. All commendable. I'm just focused on criminal justice reform and helping one person at a time. And so far, the White House has been really receptive to my calls. Where I'm at in my life right now, just like to go and spend my money, buying material things just doesn't satisfy me

the way that it used to if I could put the money for a shopping spree, which sounds ridiculous, to save someone's life and do that once a year, then that would make my heart fuller. Which, listen, okay, I completely support her cause and I support prison reform. And I, it's kind of unfair to pick on her. But this is not exactly like a thought out platform or someone who's invested in this on some larger level or knows or is really committed to the issue on a long term basis. It doesn't seem like it really just seems like she stumbled upon something on Twitter.

and is now kind of using her celebrity to do something. And that's like the outcome's good. So I don't know why I'm picking on it. But there is something about the level of investment and the way that she's speaking about it. When you put it in context with the Donna's house stuff, I don't know that she is the most engaged in her charity work. Is that fair? I think that's fair. Yeah, it sounds like somebody.

She is explaining that like somebody who does not have the political or experiential. credibility to pick a fight with actual community organizers. Right. Who aren't just like picking a call on a whim of being like I was on Twitter one day. Right. And it's also just kind of like if you, I know, again, I spent a lot of time being like, it's so great. People are calling each other out and being rude and saying things directly.

And that's great when you're talking about like Snapchat videos of whether someone signed off for a song. Or even kind of personal. There to me is a difference between personal issues and larger community issues. There is. I agree with that. And I'm glad you bring it up because I think one thing that we just lose a lot in the conversation of pop culture and celebrity is that there's nuance. And like there are lines where like maybe you cross them sometimes. Like something, not all topics are like with the same gravity basically.

And I think it's like I think it's okay for us to have fun. I mean I don't mean to like justify this podcast. But I think there's a way to have fun with a disc track that is a lot less fun than a well-known opportunistic celebrity, like using her platform for a whim and to meet with the president who also probably is not that invested in prison reform, but would love to meet with Kim Kardashian. I mean, the fact is that Kardashians and Donald Trump have been on a collision course since they both were on television. Like, this is not surprising to me at all, like at all. There's so much Kardashian-Genner news this week, and it's all just, like, so disparate and, like, chaotic. I just find them too chaotic at this point, which is also how I feel about the president. And so I have an announcement, which I have...

Are you going to the meeting? I'm going to the meeting. I have to leave because I'm going to D.C. No, I have personal news. I muted the words Kardashian and Jenner forever on Twitter, like forever, forever. So, like, I only get tweets about them, anyone in the family, when. when the first names are used. Okay.

So I could block the other names, but that just seems like a bridge too far, you know? You've got a lot of other Kylie's in your life? There's other Kim's. I don't know. It just seems like that's a bridge too far. But. moderation, though. Yeah, exactly. It's like, nuance. I see. I see. I feel happier. I feel happier. I feel happier with Les Kardashian news in my life. I really, I really do. They are the worst celebrities. I cannot stand them. And, like, I just feel free.

I challenge everyone to find. a Twitter word that you want to mute and go for it. Yeah, it's, I will say anecdotally, I've received messages from Juliet. They're just like, I'm so much happier now that I've done this. So that, there you go. Find your Twitter list. But I also, to kind of join with Juliet and Charity, I'm interested to hear you about to hear your thoughts on this.

I did find, this was the week that I was like, all right, I'm done. I'm done with Kim. That journey is over for me. And I think it is because of the thing I just said of just kind of like once she's messing with things that do matter and not doing them justice, it's just, it's not for me. I'm out. That's not a responsible use of your platform. And I don't know. I mean, I think I'm alone in that.

I don't think the Kardashians are going away. I kept typing Kim is over in our celebrity slack and then I deleted it. it because that's wrong and I'm not trying to spread false information, but I'm kind of out. That's interesting. You watched the show and enjoyed it. And I think that like their capitalism, their type of brazen capitalism is hard to square up sometimes. That's kind of the problem for me. I don't know.

I can't. I've always disliked them. But it's really funny. Like I feel like we spent the first half of this podcast being like, fuck Drake. Or I was like, fuck Drake. He's not acknowledging his child or he's not. keeping him hidden. And then I get, on the other hand, like, I find the tribalism of the Kardashians to be, like, incredibly narrow-minded. And I think that's, like, kind of, like, a useful

juxtaposition. Like, like, the thing with celebrity is, like, everything is just so extreme because they just live on a normal lives. Yeah. It's so far afield from, like, what we recognize as, like, day to day. Can I, can I clarify one thing? Sure. Child support is really important, and I, like, I really, I mean. Amanda, no one. Don't worry. No one thinks that you don't support that. I'm not defending Drake's actions. I'm really, please, please, like,

child support, truth. Thank you. All the children. No, no, no, no. I was just thinking about that. I want to make it really clear. For me, it's how we engage with these things and is very interesting and it's clearly always in flux.

There's kind of just like there's a defined playing field for me. And there are some things that, we can hold celebrities too and talk about and that those are kind of like the rules of engagement and there are some things that are just not in the celebrity sphere and I think we've all three this year talked a lot about how like politics

and issues and civic and governmental and community issues should not be contaminated by celebrity. They always will because it's human nature but we've seen the damage that can do and so that to me is the distinction Also, maybe I'm just a mean person. I don't know. Charity, where are you?

I think that's the, that's why I take so much joy. I mean, you were, you were outlining this earlier. If we're trying to carve out like spheres of celebrity and spheres of non-celebrity, the joy of the Drake push-a-tee stuff is that it is unambiguously frivolous. And it's also filled with explicit, cruel conflict. And so it just feels like the purest form of me being really, exhilarated by something that I know that the state I know what the

stakes are they're very internal they're esoteric in a way and they don't really spell over to like me having to worry about whether I'm backing somebody who is disparaging community activist or like in or getting

way too into Jordan Peterson or something right that's my favorite version of celebrity right it's just where the where everything seems sort of defined And we all sort of know why we're here. I'm so glad you brought that up. That's one thing that I've thought a lot about in the last year and a half, which is the joy of frivolity feels gone because culture has been so saddled by really weighty topics, which on the one hand is great for progress and like really important.

But on the other hand, makes us weekly and blindgossip.com and all of like my favorite Hollywood-related records. less fun and like a lot harder to celebrate. And I think Amanda and I, we really like struggle with this every time we do this podcast of like hitting the right tone of like, this is really fun. But yeah, we also feel like things aren't right in the world or we're struggling with how to how to like keep doing our jobs while also like having to cover like a Me Too movement all the the time. And I think one of the reasons there was like so much elation at like Drake versus push a tea is it just felt like it's safe, safe to be frivolous to use your word. It's so, so true. So, and that is just, the Kardashians, just their, like, extreme frivolity.

There's, like, it's harder to, to, like, find joy in that day after day, week after week. It is bewildering that the most, in this sort of political versus celebrity sense, it is weird that the most responsible celebrity spectacle of the moment is the one where a rapper or as insulted a producer for suffering from multiple. Right. It's a kind of. It's important to point out it's on a spectrum. It's not responsible. That's not okay. And part of the reason that we are all taking joy in aspects of it, if not in the 40 part of it, is because it is irresponsible.

And we haven't, there has not been a lot of acceptable irresponsibility in the, in the past however many years. I don't know. Is it even acceptable? If it's acceptable, it's not that much fun. but we still accept it, I guess. You're right. It's not acceptable. That's the answer.

It's not acceptable. But damn. I think also the other distinction between what's going on between Pusha and Drake is there's like creativity and like something that you might call art at the center of it. It's excellent. Yeah. It's immaculate. There's music.

There's tracks. Whereas with like, you know, everything that's fabulous that Kim Korn Ashian creates is an artifice. And I would apply that to Kanye. It's like the stuff that Kanye is doing seems if what Drake and Puscher are doing is constructive and immaculate, what Kanye is doing is like dark and destructive and is sort of robbing me of my life, if anything. Justin, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

You've been an invaluable part of this conversation as we worked through our feelings. And I feel great. Guys, please mute some words. I really, I really want you to. Mute some words and pay child support. Yeah, the problem is that I think Drake muted child support at this point. That's Charity's distra. Thanks again for listening and thank you to Hotel Tonight.

Charity will be back next week and Amanda and I will be back in two weeks.