The Press Box - Trump’s Chief of Staff Speaks, Reporting on Rob Reiner’s Killing, and a Jolabokaflod Book Exchange

Episode Date: December 17, 2025

Hello, media consumers! Bryan and David come together today to celebrate Jolabokaflod! The show opens with David opening his gifts from Bryan before they dive into their thoughts on Vanity Fair’s big new feature on Trump’s chief of staff, Susie Wiles (13:03). Next, the guys listen to some of this past weekend's football audio, with a touch of some wrestling audio at the end (23:33). After that, Bryan and David examine the way the media reported on the homicide of Rob Reiner and Michele Singer Reiner, followed by Trump’s response to Reiner's death (32:44). The show ends with today’s Notebook Dump, where they comb through mullets in journalism (47:51). Plus, the Overworked Twitter Joke of the Week, and David Shoemaker Guesses the Strained-Pun Headline! Hosts: Bryan Curtis and David Shoemaker Producer: Bruce Baldwin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David? Yes. Let me be the first person to wish you a very happy Yolobokoflod. Happy Yolabokov flood to you too. Is there a Yola Bokoflud song? Is there like a seasonal song that we could learn maybe for next year? I'm going to check Spotify when we get off to see if there's a playlist. Yeah, I'm sure.

Because we've been wearing out Christmas classics and Mannheim Steamroller and everything else. Christmas carols when you want to feel a little more holy and serious. Who's the Icelandic Stevie Wonder that would have recorded like an upbeat fun version. And did you have a wings period like Paul McCartney did. He was just turning out Christmas music. So if you're a new listener and you're not Icelandic, let us explain. Last year, David and I discovered that in Iceland there is a holiday called Yolaboka Flood, meaning the Christmas book flood. Yes.

And Icelanders buy each other books. They distribute them on Christmas Eve. And then under a fire next to a fire under the tree, they start reading the books. And as soon as David and I heard buying books, we were all in on Yolo Bocoflob. Yes. If we needed any excuse to buy books. And let me tell you something, David. It is catching on.

Alert listener Kirk Linter. tells us that a bookshop in Cleveland called Loganberry Books is having a read-in, a read-in in the store on Wednesday for Yola Boko Flood. Nice. See, come there, you relax, you read a book.

The chef, Yotam Otolinghi, are there any Adolingi cookbooks in your house because they're definitely Adolingi cookbooks in my house. I'm not even sure. Maybe so. Adelengi wrote in the New York Times magazine this month and I'm quoting here in Iceland apparently

they do something on Christmas Eve called Yola Bokoflog I'm not sure why the New York Times magazine fact checkers could not advance that apparently I can't believe they didn't find you are you responsible for this Yola bloca floodization this Yola bloca flooding of the market

and of and for national, for the national, international attention it's getting? I think we're responsible, my friend. This is, this is a holiday. Look, look, Iceland is responsible. Let's not hog credit. Well, sure, but in terms of people actually knowing about it,

I never heard about it before last year. No, I knew neither until Christine told me about it. We've been insisting people know the reason for the season. Mm-hmm. And that is giving each other books. Yeah. All right, with that preamble, would you like to begin the, traditional press box Yola Boko Flood book exchange, David.

Yes, absolutely. It's going to be half an exchange, right? It's going to be half an exchange. Let me tell you something. We've been on red alert here at the Curtis household because whenever a box comes in, I'm just like, Christine, can you open it? To see if that's inside. Oh, yeah, because you can't, you won't be able to know if you wouldn't know if it's mine or not.

No, we got one from a bookstore yesterday. And I was like, I actually got it out. The books inside were wrapped. and I was sitting with my wife in her office just looking at him. She's like, I don't know if you should open that. I'm like, I'm pretty sure this is not what David got me. I'm pretty sure this is a separate thing and it didn't turn out to be. You should have,

and I could have just taken credit for it. That would have been way, that would probably be way better than what I say you. Anyway, I did receive your YOLA Book of Flood gift sent well in advance in a very timely fashion. And I do, should I open it right now? Yes, why don't you open it? And I've actually numbered.

the entries in there, so there's a particular order. For those watching on video, it's a nice, reused Amazon package says, do not open until Yolo Blokofud. On the front, which is great. It's mostly, traditionally in Iceland, you give it to the people you're with that day, right? Or do they do a lot of mailing of gifts?

I don't know that there's like an Icelandic Santa that just goes from house to house. I think it's a fantastic idea for a lot of reasons, But when you think about your kids, your kids may be different than my kids. But what a great thing to separate the books from the things that are going to excite them more. Right? So they get very excited for the books on YOLOPLOLOLOCA flood. And then, you know, the next day they can, they still have the warm memories of the books when they're opening their, you know, Lego sets or video game coupons or whatever.

100%. And we've done that under the tree. Like we bought YOLA books for everyone. here in the Curtis household. And that will happen on Christmas Eve and that will be a separate ceremony. And then on Christmas Day, we can get to the Legos and the Switch games and everything else. Exactly.

Yeah. Principal we're talking. All right. So here I am. I'm opening it. I dispense with most of the tape, but it's still overly taped. Let me put this microphone down for a second. That's going to say, David sounds like he's opening his Yola Boko Flood gift in a windstorm.

I'll do a little play-by-play here. There we go. Yeah, David taking out the packaging now. Number one first? Number one is first. If I did this right. All right, Aaron. I might not have.

My goodness. This is quite a haul. I can already tell. Like I told you, just think of me as your Icelandic grandma who went a little nuts. Oh, my gosh. You're going to have to pick up the mic again here at some point. Okay, number one. Spider Spin Meo Web, Lawrence Block on writing fiction.

I have a different Lawrence Block on fiction book, but again, it's not this one. This is incredible. So this comes from page one books in Albuquerque, New Mexico. It is signed in there. I will have you know by the great Lawrence Block, who is still with us. Yeah. I discovered shortly before showtime today. B-O-B-B-I-E.

That's great. Which is David's nickname on the streets. You can start calling me Bobby just so I can. Oh, this is incredible. That just screamed you. Genre fiction, writing advice. And Lawrence Block is what he's, he's, he's. is an incredible writer.

All right. Now to go to number, no number two? Yes, that was Yola number one. Now, David, opening Yola number two. Oh,

I can already tell what this is. Oh, my God. Fishing it out of the bubble wrap that has been so safely secured in. Oh, my gosh. This is my crowd by Chaz Adams. Is this a compendium of all of his Adams family cartoons?

This is an Adams family compendium and his non- Adam's family cartoons. Oh, it's non too. Oh, my gosh. It has a beautiful Adam's family illustration on the cover. I'll hold this up for the camera.

This is a thing of beauty. This is from the 70s, so the Adams family is wearing groovy clothes. Also, it was a baby picture of Chaz on the back. It's just incredible stuff. This came out of our New York or December issue because, you know,

we were talking about Charles Adams. David is art guy, cartoon guy, morbid guy here at the ringer, so. Some of these are incredible. The detail in some of these is just incredible. We had this out on the dining room table. And Christine and I would just walk by because I was trying to wrap it for like three days.

And we just browse the cartoons and they are so good. An old Simon & Schuster joint here. This is incredible. Beautiful colored cartooned in papers. This is nice. Nice. Thank you so much, Brian. Should I go straight to three?

Go straight to three. Let's just let's we're ripping up and everything under the truth. I'm familiar with this one. Speaking of the New Yorker. This is a segue. It's a segue. In Cold Blood by Truman Capote.

It is a hardcover edition. Yeah, that's a. The original cover. You may want to pick up your mic again. I think you're, uh, oh, I'm off mic. This is the, the famous original cover. Yes, that's a 1966 edition of In Cold Blood. I believe it's a book club edition,

so this will not pay for your children's college funds. No, this is so awesome. And should we take this moment to make an announcement, David? Yeah, let's do it. That is awesome. The texture of it is incredible. So the January issue of the press box will be me and David discussing in cold blood on its 60th anniversary.

Yes. The January issue. The January issue and the episode is going to be called in cold blood in the invention of true crime. We talked about in Cold Blood. We're talking about Truman Capote. We're talking about the genre at large. I thought you needed a nice edition

with the cut pages so you can read it in its original form. Oh, yeah, the rough front. That's really, that really makes it. It makes you want to dig into a book. Also, as an art guy, what a great cover, stark and wonderful and inviting that is, by the way. That's S. Neil Fujita, by the way, that did that. He's a famous graphic designer.

Just did some incredible, the inspiration for a lot of lesser things. hanging on walls in the northeast. But yeah, he did some really good book cover work along the way, too, including The Godfather. Oh, wow. In Cold Blood, there were some other ones. But he's just an incredible artist.

Fantastic. All right, do you want to do some color commentary here where you describe yolo books that may be coming my way? Is that he want to handle this? What do you want to do? Do you want to? No, let's just wait until they arrive. Wait until they're right. It'll, it'll, it's better in real life.

Should I film myself like a 2025 media person? Film yourself doing it. If it happens later today, maybe we can edit it. And if not, we'll just discuss when we get together next. When I have somebody hold a camera while I open exciting books coming from a strange address on the East Coast. By the way, as long as we're announcing stuff, I was thinking about this, should we do some feature next year where we gather the best, bookstores in America Oh

You know, I'm not talking about that bullshit stuff that the New York Times and Esquire do With like the 20 best meals in America Where they, you're like, you haven't eaten all the meals in America. No. But we could induct Really great bookstores into a kind of press box pantheon.

Yeah. You're not sure that we have, at least one of us has been to them. Is that the baseline criteria? Maybe we need to visit to And I'm a you know, wink wink Connor Nevins and the ringer staff here Maybe we need a visit to confirm

Yeah But I think we can take nominations We can do it irregularly But we they will be inducted I mean I'm looking at this Loganberry Place in Cleveland that was mentioned as having a Yola holiday and I'm like That looks great

I want to go to Loganberry books Yeah Anyway if you have a favorite And we're taking used bookstores here right We're new bookstores are wonderful but use bookstores, new bookstores? What do you think? That's a great question.

There's so many used bookstores out there. And I feel like new bookstores, the travel plans are a little bit more straightforward, but man, that's tough. Like Kansas City has a great used bookstore. Like I've been to it. You know, there's, it feels like there's, those are the places that are really keeping the flame lit.

Yeah, I agree. for book collecting. So anyway, your favorite used bookstores, we will appreciate them and perhaps visit them in 2026. All right, coming up on the press box, David, let's talk about this new Vanity Fair feature in which Donald Trump's chief of staff,

Susie Wiles, wait for it, speaks out. Plus, NFL audio, including Jesse the Body Ventura, how the murders of Rob and Michelle Reiner were covered, and more only in podcasting cliches, along with a power ranking of journalists who had mullets. All that and much more on a Yola Boka edition of the press box, a part of the ringer, podcast network. Hello Media Consumers, Brian Curtis, David Shoemaker,

and Bruce Baldwin with you sailing into the holidays. David, we woke up this morning to a giant feature in Vanity Fair that feels like a telegram from 20 years ago. Yes, it does. Dude, this was old school, old vanity fair, old politics all the way. Chris Whipple conducted a series of interviews, extraordinarily unguarded interviews, according to the New York Times, with Susie Wiles, Donald Trump's chief of staff. this is where we mentioned that Susie Wiles

is the daughter of Pat Somerol, which people seem to rediscover every six months and have their minds blown by that fact. It's fascinating because not only did Wiles cooperate, as they say with this piece, so did Marco Rubio and J.D. Vance. The whole Trump team gathered for a We Are the Serious People of the West Wing photo.

Yeah. Which brings to mind the Annie Leibovitz photos of George Bush and his team that was saving the world from terrorism in 2004. You got to remember those, yeah. The author of the piece, Chris Whipple is one of these guys that fascinates me because he wrote a book in 2017

about White House Chiefs of Staff. That sounds like a very niche book until you realize that James Baker was a White House Chief of Staff. Twice. Don Rumsfeld was a White House Chief of Staff. So he wound up talking and writing about these very, very powerful people. And somehow that journey has brought him to Susie Wiles

in the second administration of Donald Trump. Yeah. Should we do some highlights from this piece? There are a lot of them, but yes. There are quite a few. I mentioned that Wiles is the daughter of Pat Somerall, who was in his life an alcoholic. I was going to say when you mentioned it earlier,

You say people keep discovering this, but it's not just like by like clicking from her name to her Wikipedia page. It comes up every time there is a focus on her. It comes up naturally as it did semi-naturally in this piece. Yes. Like Michael Cruz wrote a Politico profile of her a while back. That's very good. People should check that out. They definitely came up there too.

Anyway, she says this about her dad who was an alcoholic. High functioning alcoholics or alcoholics in general, their personalities are exempt. exaggerated when they drink. And so I'm a little bit of an expert in big personalities. Wiles said Trump has, quote, an alcoholic's personality. He, quote, operates with a view that there's nothing he can't do. Nothing, zero, nothing. So there is the chief of staff saying the president of the United States has an alcoholic's personality. Susie Wiles talked about the Epstein files and why they're so politically potent. The people that really appreciated what a big deal this is are Cash, that is of course, Cash Patel, and Dan Bongino, because they lived in that world.

And the vice president, who's been a conspiracy theorist for a decade, dot, dot, dot. Yeah. There was just, there were a lot of just, you know, the vice president has been, quote, a conspiracy theorist for a decade, like, without the context. And I think that was probably part of what Susie Wiles was addressing when she complained that some of these, some of the pieces, or some of the quotes had a lack of context. The context is there for this one, and it doesn't really help him that much.

Yes. I mean, what I assume she meant is the vice president, like Cash Patel, is very online. Yes. And he understands what people online care about. Mm-hmm. But, again, you are, you know, part of the job is watching your words, and you just did say that the vice president of the United States is a conspiracy theory.

So there's that. More on the Epstein files. Wiles tells Whipple, the people that are in inordinately interested in Epstein are the new members of the Trump Coalition, the people that I think about all the time, because I want to make sure that they are not Trump voters, they're Republican voters. It's the Joe Rogan listeners. It's the people that are sort of new to our world. It's not the MAGA base, which is a good insight. She's completely right about that. How about Attorney General Pam Bondi? remember how she was handling the Epstein files with those binders? Yeah. Wiles says, I think she completely whiffed on appreciating that that was the very targeted group that cared about this. First, she gave them binders full of nothingness.

Then she said that the witness list or the client list was on her desk. There is no client list, and it sure as hell wasn't on her desk. More Susie Wiles on Letitia James, and whether some of Donald Trump's Justice Department cases amount to retribution. Well, that might be the one retribution. She said a beat Latitia James case. Here's Susie Wiles on the prosecution of James Comey.

I mean, people could think it does look vindictive. I can't tell you why you shouldn't think that. And really, she goes on from here on Elon Musk. He is a complete solo actor dot, dot, dot, dot. The challenge with Elon is keeping up with him. He's an avowed ketamine, and here at parenthesis user, and he sleeps in a sleeping bag in the EOB in the daytime. And he's an odd, odd duck, as I think geniuses are. You know, it's not helpful, but he is his own person.

Wait, it was the bracketed user because she omitted a word or because she said like ketamine head? Yeah, or maybe a word that Vanity Fair was a little bit, you know, she wished about. Yeah, applying to Musk. I don't know. It is a weird, it's a weird bracket. Finally, Wiles says of her management style. So no, I'm not an enabler. I'm also not a bitch.

I try to be thoughtful about what I engage in. I guess time will tell whether I've been effective. Wow. So there's a lot there, man. If you read the entire piece, which I recommend rather than the quotations from, the piece. It all does make sense. We tend to, you know, have our hair stand on end when anybody in a position of power speaks, frankly.

True. And if you read this stuff, you really do get the impression of her, which has been conveyed by the profiles, that she's kind of the realist in the Trump administration. I mean, it kind of a standard And not as I'd say Not an not unusual Role for the chief of staff No

Although you could you can define realist a lot of different ways I guess But but yeah But maybe for the Donald Trump chief of staff Because she's not saying Hey I want to stop you Donald Trump From doing what you want to do She wants him to do what he wants to do She just wants to level with him about

Political considerations this and that make her opinions note. I think it's maybe a different kind of realism. Yes. And the way that she's looking at all the actors, whether they be J.D. Vance, Pam Bondi, Marco Rubio.

Mm-hmm. It's just fascinating. Again, Susie Wiles also has been a person who just doesn't seem to want a lot of attention. She doesn't want to take the bows that other people who got the president elected or helped get them elected would want to take.

Yeah. probably put that notion to bed now that you did a big Vanity Fair feature. Yeah, I mean, it is one of those things where you have to wonder, like, like, who's, like, who thought this was a good idea? And I don't mean that as a sort of accusation. I think there's a lot of people in White House's throughout the years that would have obviously done this, you know, they were obviously gone for this sort of piece. But I just mean, like, literally, like, who was it, who was it in Trump's White House?

of all these people that she named checks who was just like, I think that'll be a good look for us. Yeah, Susie's a really good, you know, Susie's the person here who can really appeal to that Vanity Fair voter. And like it's, it's sort of an interesting thing to think about it. Well, and it's interesting, too, because so she was meeting with Whipple,

and this is how the piece starts on November 4th, 2025. And she had previously been in a meeting with Donald Trump, J.D. Vance, Marco Rubio, Stephen Miller. And she stood up and left. And she said, and Trump said, is this an emergency that you have to leave? And she replied to Trump, it's an emergency. It doesn't evolve you.

It doesn't involve you. And then she just went down and started doing an interview with a story. Apparently, that's how I read the top anyway. So to your point about, you know, who thought this was a good idea? I think Susie Wiles thought this was a good idea. Yeah. And obviously, you have to get some buy-in if other people are being called. and if you're posing for pictures and stuff like that.

Should note this is a big score for Mark Waducci. Post American Canto. Yeah. I can't even do the full performance anymore. I'm so tired of talking about this. But Vandy Fair was looking for big scores under new administration. And the whole idea of doing it about Trump and the Trump administration made me think of this Max Taney piece back in August.

where he wrote Guaducci's mandate to rethink the publication's relationship with power and celebrity is likely to mean a greater open-mindedness to seeking access to figures likely to repel the magazine's liberal readers. He's told people he's potentially interested in putting Melania Trump on the cover.

So they engage with Trump, but Vanity Fair engages in such a way that it, again, it feels mostly like, to me, an old school inside the administration kind of people. piece. wonderfully revealing in its way. Anyway,

check that out in Vanity Fair. All right, let's do some weekend football audio. This is my favorite moment from Sunday. I'm watching Lions Rams second quarter. Lions wide receiver James William had a good block

on a touchdown catch. He's blocking for fellow wide receiver. I'm on Ross St. Brown. And on the sideline, lines, offensive lineman Penae Sewell came up to James and congratulated him. Like you do, you just did what I do

for a living. Yeah. Right after that, Fox's Tom Rinaldi made history by using a phrase, I'm pretty sure, has never escaped his lips until now. McKee, we know Tom Brady loves to see willing and aggressive

blocking by wide receivers. Now, you can critique that technique, TB, if you want, but here's the compliment. Yeah, the old world tackle comes over to you and tells you. That's how you lay it down, my brother. Oh, that was a good one. I don't know what you imagine Tom Rinaldi is like off camera, but I don't imagine him dabbing people up.

That's how you lay it down, my brother. And calling them my brother. I don't know, man, it just float off the tongue. I mean, it seems like he could have said that before. It was very natural. I just, that made me so happy when I heard it on Sunday. afternoon. Earlier in the day, Bill's Patriots was called by Ian Eagle and JJ Watt over at CBS.

Man, JJ Watt was good during that game. You and I've talked before about sometimes announcing amounts not to how you break down a play or a scheme, but just being on it. Yeah. A thing happens, especially an unexpected thing, and you just know what to say. you say what the viewer at home is thinking is trying to articulate and you just say it you're right on it J.J. Watt is so on it.

Here's Eagle and Watt calling a long Trayvian Henderson touchdown run in which the Pat's quarterback, Drake May, was blocking downfield. A weak schedule, anybody who wants to say anything about them, these are the types of drives that they can show everyone. Henderson bounces away

and Henderson is off to the races. Look at May. Does he have another? one in a base bruggan he does touchdown goodbye traviord henderson ian eagle always sounds like he's smiling when he has a big call everything sounds so happy and you see watt jumping in there yeah to salute the quarterback for making a block that's how you lay it down my brother j j wott was saying to ion eagle also thought about this listening to ion we have right now i believe a lack of lineman in high profile slots on TV.

Okay. Think back to like 20, 30 years ago. You had John Madden calling the game of the week. You had Dan Derrador on Monday Night Football. Yep. You had Alex Karras and Bubba Smith. Yeah. Yeah.

You had Fred Dreyer on television. He had refrigerator Perry. Mm-hmm. The lineman was a real cultural archetype. The kind of guy that was not just pointing out, not a different part of the field, but was using his lineman nature, his big gluteness to kind of disguise his intelligence. You're leaving Tony Sierra, the Tony Siragusa era out of this.

It has been a semi-modern world, yes. But I was thinking, like, who are the lineman now? And it's, you know, Michael Strahan is huge, but he's almost more newsman than lineman. Mm-hmm. Taylor Luan, I'm Bustin with the Boys, Jason, But those guys aren't calling games. Yeah. And it just feels like we had missed the lineman perspective on the big game.

Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, it is interesting, it is interesting how many, how it just became a sort of quarterback zone. And obviously there are other people, I mean, other players besides former quarterbacks, but how it, you know, I guess it's just such a high profile and in turn high paying slot that suddenly, you know, the legends of the game like Tom Brady, you're like, yeah, I'll take that job. You write the check.

But, I mean, I remember, correct me if I'm wrong, I remember when Aikman stepped into the booth, given he was sort of forced into an early retirement, but I remember being pretty shocked that someone of his level, his stature was willing to do color commentary. Now I think it's all It's all sort of evened out I don't even I mean who I guess it doesn't matter You know we have Jeff Saturday on ESPN He's an O lineman a former o lineman But you know Graham gave it a shot before he went back to the Eagles

He was really good Sure yeah I mean I think the doors are probably open For linemen But I don't know who the I mean Warren Sapp is with Dion right Like he's the first one that comes to mind of like a lineman that like I remember that but as someone who's just like would get the would

just immediately get someone to write a check right I mean he was just like such a big personality there's obviously a lot fewer famous linemen than there are offensive skill position players sure and I think the distinction here is actually calling games yeah because that's different than being on the studio or being in the pregame you get three hours to kind of be yourself to be this character. And again, this just feels like a cultural archetype to me. It's totally true. It's totally true.

I mean, another problem is all these guys now, JJ Watt, go down the list, are just like still an incredible shape after they retire. They still look like professional athletes. Part of the archetype was the big oaf in the oversized blazer, right? It was the look at the mustache that I grew in retirement and look how the CBS jacket just, you know, even at my size hangs loose on me. You know, with big gut. Like, that's what a former player on the line should look like.

And all these guys are really smart. It's just the way you wear your intelligence. A lineman wears it in a particular way. Yeah, so there's a little oafishness to it. I mean, JJ, not with JJ Waugh particularly, but there is a sort of like, like you were saying before. There's a sort of like laid back attitude the whole thing. Like it comes easy to him.

Watt is very much like that. John Madden was like that. You know, you're not saying I'm the smartest guy in the room. You might be the smartest guy in the room, but you're not standing on the table and saying it. It just kind of sneaks up on you. Yeah. I've missed that aspect of sports television. Yeah, me too.

Steve McMichael, did he do some color commentary back in the day? Dang, I mean, he did some color commentary in WCW wrestling. That's what I mean. Oh, yeah. He must have called some games too, right? Did he come straight from his playing days to wrestling? I don't know. You may have snuck in a college game or two.

I don't know if he called pro games. Yeah, he was very good. He made me, he was, he was quite adept for a late comer to the sport. Another headline for you. Former sidelined reporter Michelle Tofoya is thinking about running for U.S. Senate and Minnesota. Is there anybody in sports broadcasting who is not being sized up to run for Senate as a Republican? It's pretty incredible. Awful announcing reminds us that.

last year's Minnesota Senate race pitted Amy Klobuchar against Royce White. Yes. You remember that? Royce White lost by 15 plus points. I kind of forgotten that whole doom Senate campaign. One last bit of audio for you, David. Saturday night's main event. John Cena's last match.

Here is heel commentator Jesse the Body Ventura summing up, Sina's career. won the championship 17 times. That means he lost it 17 times. And who would want to brag about that?

So Joe Tess and everyone else at the panel is cracking up. Guys, I've been hearing that line from heel wrestling commentators for my entire life. I thought you're going to say from me. Yeah, it's absolutely true. Yeah, that's definitely an old Bobby the Brain hedonism and whatever.

Probably Jesse. back in the day. He probably did. You're a five-time champ. That just means you lost it five times, McMahon. Yeah. I mean, that is just like football announcers saying, you never know what happens at the bottom of the pile. I kind of do, because I've been hearing you say it

my whole life. Let us talk about some serious news here, David. Sunday night, we learned that Rob Reiner, the great Rob Reiner and his wife, Michelle, had been murdered in their home in Brentwood here in Los Angeles. I don't know how you experience this on Sunday night.

But the first thing I saw on Twitter was news outlets being extraordinarily cautious. Saying that two bodies had been found in the Reiner's home, their ages matched exactly the ages of Rob and Michelle, but they were being very cautious. We cannot tell you who this is. You may draw a conclusion there. The inference may be a very sad and scary one, but this is, we're not going anywhere that the, you're not going anywhere that the, you know, hard information does not take us. That was step one. Step two was just the opposite.

745 Pacific time. So this is pretty quickly after the story starts to surface. People magazine, or people, I guess as we now call it, published a story with this headline. Rob Reiner and his wife, Michelle, were killed by their son, parentheses, exclusive sources. And the first sentence of that article reads like this. Rob Reiner and his wife, Michelle Singer-Riner, were killed by their son Nick.

Multiple sources confirmed a people. Now, we know that Nick Reiner was later arrested. My only point here is, I have never seen an uncaviated story like that, published so quickly after a crime was reported. Not this person is a suspect. This is a person of interest. not the police have this theory of the case, we can confirm that this person did this or multiple sources confirmed to us that this person did this.

I don't know. Have you ever seen anything like that? No, it's pretty wild. And I'm sure, I mean, you're right, the sort of restraint that the broader media showed was interesting. I was going to say telling, but we didn't tell us anything. I mean, certainly the moment that I heard it, I also heard that it was their son, you know, that no one's reporting it and blah, blah, blah. And I think everybody sort of had that feeling.

If you clicked on any of those Twitter posts, those careful Twitter posts by, you know, whatever news organization, the first or second comment was just like a Twitter egg saying it was their son, you know. It was out there. And so my assumption is that a lot of the fact finding had already been done by the time those careful pieces came out. Now, why they were careful in a way that people decided not to be or why they were careful in the face of specifics that they could have held. I mean, I think it's just, it's hard to, I mean, it feels like just a very decorum-based choice, right?

It's just like, what a terrible thing to get wrong, you know, to accuse someone to be, to say, accuse a son of killing his parents. Worse than maybe another thing that was like a, had a 0.1% chance of being incorrect, you know? But it's hard for me to imagine that decorum was really the dividing, you know, the dividing line on whether or not they published it. So it is kind of, it is curious. Yeah, I mean, to me, decorum's one word for it. Another is just what kind of certainty do you have to have to get to that headline?

Yeah. Again, not that this person is a suspect or person of interest. But you know it for sure. Did you talk to somebody who like watches a security camera or something like that? That's the only thing it could have been. There is like actual footage or that he was sitting there. between them when the police arrived. I mean, even then, I guess it would have to be security.

I mean, but again, you don't like, you know, there's a reason news organizations put the caveats in. They don't want to get sued. They don't want to get it wrong. And it was just interesting. Now, of course, he's under arrest, so this looks very differently. But when I was, you know, tweeting this out on that night, just because I was so struck by it, people are like, well, it's People magazine.

What do you? I'm like, People magazine doesn't want to get sued. Yeah. Right. had not gone there yet. TMZ as aggressive as it is. And the story was written by Greg Hanlon. He's done a lot of sports writing in the past and stuff.

So again, it's just fascinating. I'd love to know more about how that story came together and how you get that quickly to that particular headline. A couple of other notes on this. The photo that was affixed to that story, the one photo of Nick Reiner, it's so strange how a single photo becomes everything we know about a person. for the first 24 hours of a story

and then you saw outlets eventually find this other photo of them on the red carpet together for the spinal tap where he looked totally different yeah we look totally different but I just think in a way that that just you know sort of affects our minds and affects our images of a person

what is your favorite Rob Reiner movie I mean the Princess bride I guess that was that one I think that's my answer I mean, it had such a form I mean, the Andre the giant of it all aside, it had such a formative role in my life

and my sense of humor and everything else. Now, if we talk about, I mean, he really just had such a run. I might have, if there's any movie that I watch as a kid more than the Princess Bride, it might have been stand by me. That was on cable television constantly. and it was just a classic. Obviously, a few good men redefined

what a good movie was, I think, for people who were exactly our age, like right when it came out in a weird way. And misery of all of his movies, I've watched misery more as an adult than anything else. Well, maybe the Princess Bride, including the times I've put it on

for my kids or whatever, but like miseries, which is one of those you can go back to like once or twice a year, you know, and it's always, it's always entertaining in the same way. See what I was thinking about was stand by me and the Princess Bride just because they came out when we were kids

And you're absolutely right Stand by Me was on HBO all the time I feel like every friend of mine had taped it off HBO And it was the rare movie like the Goonies that starred kids It starred kids Yeah it felt a little bit like it was Like it was a Like you shouldn't be watching it at times

Even though it was like totally a kid friendly movie I'm mostly thinking about like the dead body aspect of it spoiler alert, sorry. The barfing aspect of it too. The bar, yeah. And there's a lot of good, like, really attractive parts for kids. We didn't mention spinal tap, which, by the way, I mean, I sort of put that in all the Christopher guest movies in a separate category.

It's almost like something, yeah, but I, but I love them to death, but didn't watch them in at the perfect time. I certainly didn't watch Spinal Tap in the 80s, you know, I didn't watch it until much, much later. So didn't have the same form of role. I mean, in my life, but it was, I mean, it's obviously just absolutely. incredible. But we didn't mention the bucket list either in terms of movies that really affected our...

That was sliding doors metaphor is the bucket list. Because you probably haven't seen it, but you absolutely have used the term the bucket list. Yes. Other one, by the way, in his filmography, that it's just... I only discovered this even happened when we were doing our best media movies a while back was he made a movie, that is Rob Reiner made a movie about the next. Knight Ritter Bureau in Washington, D.C. that uncovered all those stories about Iraq and WMD.

He did? This is a real thing. It's called Shock and All. It came out in 2017. Let me give you the people that are in this movie. Woody Harrelson, James Marsden, Reiner himself, Tommy Lee Jones,

Jessica Beal, Milit Jovovich, and Richard Schiff. It's just incredible. Yes. Somebody plays Ahmed Chalabi in this movie. Again, this feels like a press box segment

rather than a film that went to cinemas and in fact it made $182,000 on a $15 million budget. I watched it. It is not, I would not call this a good movie, but if you like lefty, rousing, go journalism

stuff and I do, this is not a bad movie to just have on while you're doing something else. Anyway, if you're doing the full, uh, the full film. Another thing that this horrific crime triggered, David, was I was sitting there on Monday morning and I was thinking back and thinking about Brentwood, which is where the home of Rob and Michelle Reiner is.

And I was like, oh my God, you know, there is this old story that ran in the New Republic, 1994, after OJ, which was written by Douglas Copeland, the novel. novelist. And Andrew Sullivan, then the editor of the New Republic, sent Douglas Copeland to Brentwood and said, write a story for me about what this place is. It is a fascinating story, a really good story that he wrote in the magazine. And I sent a note to our friend Alex Shepard over there at the New Republic, and he has promised me that it will be up on the site today because they don't have it up on their site. Oh, great. But it is really, really good.

I'm just going to read you like two passages here. It's written in, what's the style? Kind of the David Shields. Here's a paragraph. Here's a paragraph. Here's another paragraph. These are all little short bits that all add up to a larger hole. I'll just give you a sense.

This is Douglas Copeland on Brentwood. Brentwood has never dreamed of having a profile and possesses a con-commitment need to disassociate itself from the ever-encroaching Los Angeles on the east. citizens migrated to Brentwood for the express luxury of inhabiting a place where there is no here. Brentwood, unlike higher profile sister suburbs, Bel Air, Westwood, and Beverly Hills, has willfully engineered a transparent profile. It is though to live in Brentwood one signs a covenant of invisibility. The suburb's existence is a consensual denial of civic randomness and chaos.

That's great. Over and over and over again, it's collected in his book, Polaroid, of the dead, which is really good. Anyway, look for that online. Douglas Copeland on Brentwood. Are you like me, by the way, where you're a little unsure about how to pronounce Douglas Copeland's name? No, I knew it from, you know.

It is Copeland, right? Literary circles back in the day, yeah. That's the way we always said it. Do we care about the Donald Trump, Rob Reiner's social posts? That's a good question. I think every time something like this happens and frankly there hasn't been a lot of this

with this immediate level of pushback I think this is what it matters in this sort of meta way right? That like we've seen like the Indiana legislators who didn't want to go through with the gerrymandering we've seen some might we've seen Marjorie Taylor Greens past couple of months we've seen that people are finding space and comfort in pushing back against Donald Trump but for the most part

Republicans just sort of grin and bear it even when they don't like something because there's some perception that going against him will cost them votes or, you know, whatever. So it's interesting when something like this happens and you can tell. Obviously, there's some people that are very convicted about public decorum, to use that word again, about just be, you know, not not like trashing somebody who's just died. There's a lot of basic mores in that direction. But I think what you really see is all the Republicans who have just like just had a bone to pick. with Donald Trump for a long time and it finally found the finally found America's weakest target as you would say in this moment you know just like so many Republican legislators including people like in the White House or just like that's not how we do it like don't like

that's where this is despicable um which you know I think that there's it wouldn't surprise me that if if Trump's legislative agenda totally fell apart there's no reason to think it will but if it ever did we're going to look back on a totally otherwise innocuous moment like this as the moment that it happened because it's really the one time that people actually find a voice against Donald Trump when they can push back

on something so soft but I don't know that I don't know that this is specifically is going to matter very much so it's an easy bone to pick because it's so awful and over the top but it could be

it could be something that leads to bigger breaks with Trump it's the sort of thing that might I'm not saying that this will I'm just saying if it all were to come tumble down for Trump, it's going to be something dumb like this that does it. Or yeah, I mean, I believe

it more like that it just yeah, loosens things up a little bit. Yeah. There's a permission. I just think there is like on the right right now, there's a lot of people seeking permission to break with Donald Trump. That's exactly right. Hey, look, I just like trashed Trump on this tweet about a dead Hollywood director and nothing bad happened to me. Like, I didn't get struck by lightning.

Now it's people agreed with me. Like, they were like, oh, yes, we talked about this when Charlie Kirk died and this is what we asked for it, right? And here's the president of the United States putting it on the internet. Yeah. All right, David, coming up in 30 seconds, let's talk about a lighter subject. Journalists with mullets, these people walk among us. But first, let's do the overwork Twitter joke of the week where we celebrated a gag that was so obvious that all of media Twitter made it at exactly the same time.

Senior nominees to at the press box pod where they are always, always gratefully received. man on Sunday David we had an old guy still got it situation 44 year old Philip Rivers coming out of retirement and nearly beating the Seahawks it's an overword Twitter joke to call him Old Man Rivers Yes Or the old man and the C S-EA capital Thanks to Drew Dogg and Jette White for that But this week's winter David

What is the SEA? Oh Seattle? Yeah you know like in the box score Yeah yeah I see the old man in the sea. I didn't explain that well enough. This week's winner, David, another celebrity death. Alas, Peter Green, who played Zed in Pulp Fiction, has left us at age 60. There's an overwork Twitter joke to write.

Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead. Thanks to Brent Axe and Michael G for that one. If you can't wait for the tribute at the new Bev, congrats. You made the overwork Twitter joke of the week. All right, David, in the notebook dump. We were talking about former embattled Oklahoma State coach Mike Gundy the other day. And I asked a question in the spirit of inquiry.

Open and honest inquiry. Who is your favorite journalist with a mullet? Let me tell you something. Our listeners delivered. Thank God. The best one, and I mean the best one, comes from Timothy Thompson of Calgary, Alberta, Canada. It's hard not to say those words without sounding like the fink. Timothy Thompson writes to us, regarding reporters with bullet, may I suggest checking out the early career of Fox News anchor J.D. Roberts. Before going to America for the big money, Roberts was a co-host on City TV, Toronto's The New Music Program, and one of the first VJs on Canada's much music video channel.

J.D. Roberts, folks, is John Roberts of Fox News. And please look at the photos that are in the Google Doc because, dude, this is obviously John Roberts. Oh, yeah. But he has 80s hair. Yeah, some of these are so long, it's like, it's straying away from the mullet category, but they're mostly mullet here.

This is, this is an incredible head of hair. is this like my Susie Wiles Pat Summerall moment I'm not the only one that did not know that John Roberts was a Canadian VJ? No abs I had no idea no idea John Roberts we'd love for you to talk to us about your days covering music and having long hair long hair Brian dot Curtis theringer.com please we'd love to hear from you

immediately thanks to Timothy and Robert Matt or Matté for that one our friend Chris Vanini David who does a great job cover in college football over at the athletic. Since another one that alluded us, wrestling journalist Dave Meltzer. Yes, of course. He had a great mullet back in the day.

Just a great head of hair. He still does. I mean, he doesn't have a mullet anymore. In one of the stills that Chris sent along, he looks kind of like what if Vince McMahon had had long hair. Mm-hmm. Blake Vickery sends another one that a lot of people sent.

ESPN hockey analyst Barry Melrose. Oh, God, yeah. It's true. You look like what you cover. That goes for Meltzer and for Melrose, too, right? And for J.B. Roberts. Yeah, you spend enough time in the locker room or whatever. And it's just like, of course, why wouldn't I have a mallet?

So good. We got another good one here from Matthew Kelly. He says, I vote for Al Morganty, who when I was a kid was in the knockoff sports reporters for Philly Sports on Prism. It was Jason Stark, Angelo Cotaldi, a guy I can't remember, an Al Morgani, the Flyers beatwriter at the time. And his circa 1990 Mollett was Chef's Kiss. Yes, speaking of you look like what you cover.

People remember Al Morgani did the last stuff for ESPN as well. Again, we'll post some pictures here, but fantastic journalist mullet. And finally, we got this note from Tony Gill. This might have been my favorite of all. Tony Gill writes to us, I was a journalist with a mullet. I wrote for Salt Lake Magazine and a slew of other incredibly minor publications for over a decade, even had a cover story once about an avalanche accident in the Utah Mountains. I sold out and worked in marketing for a ski company now.

Anyway, as the picture attached shows, I did and currently still do have a mullet much to the delight in my kids. I think it's almost just qualifying to still have it because you cross the threshold. shoulder into irony now or whatever. Also, skiing, again, look like what you cover, right? But anyway, Tony, thank you for self-reporting. This is fantastic. And he does- I think there were probably a lot more than we know. I mean, in terms of like, I think there were probably a lot of,

a lot of beat reporters that had to cut the mullet when they got the weekly column. You know, there was a lot of like, you got, you know, dress for the job you want sort of stuff. But there are a lot of guys who probably had to cut the mullet along the way. But yeah, this is an incredible lineup so far. It's amazing. Yeah, it reminds you that old John Clayton commercial on ESPN, remember we had the mullet. We couldn't see on television.

Oh, yeah. Yep. That was funny. All right, David, we have some more only in podcast journalism. Okay, let's do it. Usually in this space, we do only in journalism, words you read in news articles, but never hearing human speech. These are phrases you hear on podcasts all the time. but never here in normal human conversation.

Once again, we got the mother load here from listeners. Let's start with Noah Kozlov. Talks about the way podcast hosts greet guests. Okay? Yeah. And he writes this, the podcast host who doesn't say to his guest,

one, there's nobody better to talk about this than you. Two, we've been trying to make this happen for a long time. and three there's so much to get to so let's just jump right in he says the podcast host who doesn't say this would be the first please be the first i love that we've been trying to make this happen for a long time as it's just such unnecessary inside baseball cares how long you how many emails you've sent trying to book the person yeah but i hear podcasts i say those exact phrases

all the time also let's just jump in What else were you going to do? I'll talk for 30 minutes about the weather. Here to do an interview, folks. This comes from Nick Helton. He writes, I'd like to nominate, should we do this now, or do you just want to do this now, as an only in podcast phrase. When a podcast participant starts to riff off a topic slated for later in the episode, another participant inevitably chimes in with some version of should we do this now. Again, great inside baseball.

We need to let the audience know that we are. straying from the Google Doc. Should we just do this now? Rob Terry sends us the only in podcasting phrase. Let's put a pin in that. Yeah. And he writes, a dozen other things hurt regularly on the Ezra Klein show.

Adrian Hahn shimes in. A nomination for phrases only in podcasting, profound or profoundly. I feel like no Ezra Klein pod can go without him breathily saying, it as a fancy way of saying very. Ezra kind of his own category within only in podcasting. This comes from Kyle Hartnett.

Hey guys, the most annoying only in podcasting cliche lately has to be what nobody is talking about is. Yeah. I found myself doing that one because it makes your point sound 50% more contrarian.

You know, people have been talking about this Olivia Nutsi. but what nobody's talking about. Yep. I have original ideas unlike all those other shitheads. Here's Daniel Green. I would like to nominate

It Just Is as a phrase that's used only in podcast journalism. I specifically mean an opinion is stated. Defense is important, let's say. And then the podcaster says, it just is rather than offering evidence or justification. Yeah.

Pretty funny. It just is. From Ali Fami, man, just a good one. to here. Who among us to signify shared experience. Every ringer pop culture podcaster is contractually required to

slip in a Who Among Us every episode. Asked and answered. Which got it start in law and order, but has really flourished on podcast. Don't forget its close cousin done and dusted. Also, first thought, best thought to convey spontaneity and creativity. Very rarely

is this one accurate. Yeah. Thank you, Allie, for those. Tyrone in Toronto writes, any pod that covers some kind of current event has the inevitable, this just broke as we're recording moment. Also, on this line, the not as fun, this news broke after we recorded, where the host has to drop in a new intro or record a mini-segment,

acknowledging that the latest story wasn't talked about. Really good. Silas in Chicago writes, a phrase that I've been hearing a lot for the last few years, but only on podcast is saying that someone is getting bites at the apple. Most often heard in reference to things like draft picks, but also used at least once by John Dickerson of Slate to describe Donald Trump's legal strategies.

It's a particularly good fit because it's often misused. The correct meaning seems to be one person taking multiple bites from an apple, but it's used just as often to describe a situation in which multiple competitors are all trying to acquire an apple, as in the antiquated practice of bobbing for apples. Thank you, Silas. It does feel very, John, Dickersonian, I think. Yeah, also, when you say bites of the apple,

it's always multiple bites of the apple. Yes. Never just say bites of the apple. Some more only in podcasting from Gil Chorbajin. Gil Chorba gin. I'm saying that correctly. Thank you, Gil. two things can be true at the same time.

Gil Chorbergen is definitely the name of a reporter with a mullet way back when. That's a fantastic name. Gell, address your email to David. Gil writes us this one, Two things can be true at the same time. I've definitely used that one on podcast. And he said the always popular segue, to your point.

Again, that feels like a very polite phrase that we never use in real life but use on podcast. point, David. Alan King and Carl Rabin sent in this one. Love the show. I feel like I hear this phrase primarily on the big picture from Sean, but it's now popping up with greater regularity on my podcast feeds. Your mileage may vary. Oh, I say it all the time. Did I get that from Sean? That was definitely from like, that was definitely from the annual review. Your mileage may vary on David's ability to show to work on time, but I'm just like, makes sense. It takes notes. Just like, yeah.

I think I might have gotten it from Sean, too, because I actually used that phrase my Christmas card this year, which probably is sitting on your table, dining room table somewhere. Tom loves it, yeah. Finally, this one from New School Nick on the prestigious press box pod,

audio and video, Nick writes. Whenever you say something, David will agree by saying, I think that's right. My friend and fellow listener, Mike Mullen and I have now adopted it in everyday conversation and we crack up every time, high comedy.

David, congratulations on adding something to the list of only in podcasting cliches. Yeah, it's my pleasure. That is quite a load there, but if you have any remaining cliches, any stray cliches, take a bite of the apple, email me. We should just have some sort of like bingo card

where we try to, I don't know if Bruce can keep track, but we see if any of us like get a bingo during the course of an episode. There has to be some celebration. Yes, Bruce can be the, you know, stat boy of the press box where he pops up at the end

to let us know all the cliches we use. Brian's got a BNGO, but missed out on your mileage may vary. All right. Here's a feature that is never cliched. It's time for David Schumacher. Yes is the strain pun headline. Yeah.

Last Monday's headline about Trump's waning political power was lame duck a l'orange. Lame duck a laurenge. Speaking of waning political power, David, today's headline comes to us from Alert. Listener Martin Murray, it's from Politico, story written by our pal Adam Wren.

You mentioned it earlier. Indiana legislators deciding not to go along with Trump's redistricting scheme. It's Indiana telling Trump, we are in charge here. I think that's enough. What was Politico's strained pun headline? Who's your daddy?

There we go. We're ending the year right. First thought, best thought, David. First thought, best thought, for sure. Who's your daddy? Where did that run? Politico. Okay, that makes sense.

Adam, Indiana, you know. It's funny when Martin Murray sent that to me. me an email I wrote this is Adam Wren's work without even clicking on it and there we go he is David Shoemaker I'm Brian Curtis by Bruce Baldwin some press box scheduling notes some

housekeeping as they say in podcasting Joel's back on Thursday we're going to do our Yola Boko Flood gift exchange next week me and Joel and David are going to do a three man weave and do the year in media episode that's going to be great fun.

I just think we should do some predictions on that episode. I'm coming up with some outlandish predictions. Hope you'll have some too. Also, over the holidays, Joel and I are going to do a big old mailbag episode. Speaking of podcast, cliches. When we were doing our New Yorker research, I found the New Yorker would run letters from listeners. This is the old, old New Yorker called in under a heading called Our Disillusion Correspondence.

So I'd like to steal that. Our disillusioned listeners should feel free to send us questions. It doesn't have to be media stuff. It can be about book collecting, Texas, personal stuff. What's the worst guest you've ever had? You know, that kind of stuff. At the Pressbox spot on Twitter or Blue Sky, we'll answer those over the holidays,

and we may even get a surprise, David, between now and New Year's. I love surprises. David, I cannot wait to talk to you and Joel on Monday with more lukewarm takes about the media. See you then, David. See you later, Brian.