The Press Box - Use Your Collusion II | The Press Box (Ep. 554)

Episode Date: December 25, 2018

The problems with “Year End” lists (03:00), the top five nonfiction hardcover books of 2018 (09:45), Chris Christie’s upcoming political memoir (12:30), the year of cancelling Facebook (23:00), and more. Hosts: Bryan Curtis and David Shoemaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly, and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. For all the movie fans out there, the Big Picture podcast now has its own dedicated Twitter feed at The Big Pick. Not only will you find the best in ringer film analysis and the news you need for award season, it's also the exclusive source for all the movie and video-related content you need, from Astoristboard mashups to Sean Fennacy tweeting out GIFs. So make sure you follow at the Big Pick on Twitter. David, this podcast was pre-recorded last week. but what predictions, shocking predictions,

could we make right now that would retroactively make us sound incredibly smart? Is this Trump's craziest tweet yet? Question mark? Well, that's really going out of the limb. I got one. Okay. The weekly standard has refashioned itself on the web

with an achingly earnest name. Gosh. Yeah. I think I'm going to get that one right. That's really wild. public outcry. The weekly, public demands, the weekly standard comeback. Is that the expectation?

Right. Will Ferrell, Sherlock Holmes movie, underperforms. We should invite Chris Matthews on the show so we can do is Donald Trump is going to be forced to resign bit for this segment. You want to go the big one, Donald Trump resigns? That'd be way out on the limb. I'm not sure that's going to happen this week. But who knows? You know, anything could happen.

Well, you're on the record, David. And we are the amazing Chris Well, of Media Podcast. This is the Press Box, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. The Press Box is the media podcast where if you work for a national publication, you're allowed to pre-record your Christmas episode.

We are Brian Curtis and David Shoemaker of the Ringer. Happy holidays, folks. We are here. David, I don't believe in end of the year wrap-ups. I really don't. No. So I just thought we'd, you know, freestyle it a little bit,

hit a few media topics that are bubbled up over 2018. That might sound like a year and a year. view to some. But I choose to believe it's more of a pure approach to this. I really do. I thought we were going to sing holiday carols for the next hour. So this is all kind of catching me off guard. The 20-minute mark, baby, we might.

Can I say one thing, by the way, and this is not a sub-tweet of anybody at the ringer because this has happened and it is happening. At some point, I just checked out of the whole end of your top-ten list thing. And no moral problem with it, anything like that. people, you know, kind of making, you know, putting everything in order. But I just realized I don't care anymore about movie lists, about music lists. I just, I just, I intensely cared in college and a little bit after to see what was on those things. Yes. And then I just stopped. Are you still in on top 10 lists? Uh, less and less. I, I will frequently refer back to them

at the, you know, over the next, I mean, not frequently. I will refer back to them over the next several months, right? When I'm looking for a what I watch tonight? What to watch tonight? Yeah. Streaming on TV or on, you know, when the Oscar movies start popping up on Netflix or HBO or whatever else, you know, there's definitely, it's, I'm not too far removed from looking,

from, from checking out like best, you know, best article, best, you know, long form journalism of the year roundups and just saving all those to Insta paper just to make, sure that I can read those on an airplane during my next trip or whatever. You know, that seems like a sort of, that's, that's still a, I think I still do that, uh, if I remember to, but I think just the older you get, the more this time of year is not one for, it's not the, it's not the time when you have to indulge all of the movies and TV shows and books you haven't gotten to yet.

It's exactly the opposite. I'd be much more interested in a best, and a top 10 list come, that came out in March or July or August or, you know, literally any other time. than right now. Remember when the old days we used to just kind of go home to our parents around Christmas time and all you'd be doing

is catching up on movies. Remember those simpler times? It's got an amazing moment in life in retrospect. It seemed like, it seemed like kind of boring. You know, you were like,

ah, just kind of watch a movie today or something. That seems like, the golden days. The, you mentioned the top, the top journalism lists.

That may be the thing I am out on the most. And again, it's not, it's not, it's not just a moral, like, oh,

how could you put this stuff in order? I, at the beginning of this year, I thought, I want to, I want to see if I can, just as a, as a, as a side gig, what is, what's my best sports writing of the year? Like, what would it be? Just, just kind of vaguely interested, right? And I thought, you know, I'll just put, you know, I'll just save stuff. And when I, when I see stuff, I'll just kind of throw it in there and kind of, you know, just kind of like, what would my, what would my list look like? And how different would it inevitably look from the

list in the book. And I started to do it for a couple of months. I have like a word doc here that's like two pages long. And I just couldn't do it. I just, I mean, I just, I just didn't care. I just, it just wasn't interesting to me at all. It's not that there was so much high quality journalism that you couldn't whittle it down.

No. I mean, I'm sure if I tried to whittle it down, that would be a problem. but just the exercise was so uninteresting to me. Yeah. Utterly uninteresting that of trying to pick like what is the best writing of the year. Well, and in some ways it's like it's there, it's an easier process. I mean, it's a, it's, there is a simplicity of the process that there hasn't been in years past, right? Because every, every website, I mean, can just look on, I mean, every anybody can like look on chart beat or whatever and figure out what the big, what the bigot?

the highest traffic stories of the year are, and everybody can certainly tell for their own websites, what got the most engagement and everything else. There is a robotic aspect to it that makes it a little bit simpler, but that also makes it a little bit more just alien. And part of the beauty of a list should be the character of the list maker. And I feel like in current year, everybody's, you know, nine out of ten things on any list are going to be the same

because everybody starts off by Googling and finding whoever got their list out there first and then you know you kind of just like make your make your personal opinions known throughout on the edges or whatever on the margins but you know that's what happens right the lists have a kind of self reinforcing quality sure there's that great great michael kensley line where he said if you give me three names from the list i could fill out the other seven names without even knowing what the list was for yeah right so if you just told me like uh don van nata michael mooney set wickersham chris ballard i could just name keep start naming things i wouldn't even know where we're picking those are the guys who are always on the list.

You know, so I'm just like, oh, that's the list. I mean, I don't even know what this is for, but I can, for a journalism award, is it for something? By the way, you know what I was making this list, and I'm going to stick with this down since I'm not, and so I didn't actually follow through. The most single most amazing, I think, piece, and I think it may devalue it by calling it sports writing,

but that I, if I were to pick something that just stuck with me, was this piece in the York Times by Mujib Mishal, and it was about a suicide attack in Afghanistan. And it was about this guy, this wrestler named Wakid Hussein al-Had, al-Dade, excuse me. And whenever there was a suicide attack in Kabul, he was a big strong guy. So he would help carry the wounded and the dead away from the scene of the attack.

He was just needed because he was a strong guy. And then he finally, in April, he died himself. in a suicide attack that killed 60 people and was unavailable to help carry people away. That was the single piece of journal, like I said, it devalues it to call it sports writing, but it was about an athlete. Yeah.

And it was just a singularly amazing piece of journalism. And I would love to see any piece of sports writing, even by the name, the list of the people I just named that affected me like that piece that. I thought it was just absolutely fantastic. Yeah, I remember that piece. It was really, it was really great. I don't even know it.

I mean, honestly, I feel terrible. I don't know that I have a favorite piece of sports writing from this year. There's a lot of, a lot of the best ones. I mean, they were just so thoroughly saddening that, you know, I get the, I don't know, that I leave, you know, sad instead of leaving thinking about how great a piece of writing it was. But some of the greatest stuff I read this year, that's a good example. what are some other ones?

Carrie Howley's Larry Nassar piece, I remember, was just really fantastic. Just this really, like, there's a lot of heart. What was the one about the Times Pickyoo and piece about the homeless guy? Anyway, that was when I was doing the exercise. That's in my doc. That's like the one, one of the few things I kept.

I'm Googling this now. Oh, in search for Jackie Wallace by Ted Jackson. That was really, really good. That's another one, though. I don't know. like you said I'm uh I find myself drawn to this sort of melancholia but but I uh but I get about halfway through and I'm like can I just watch an office rerun please you know I need to lift myself back up well let me lift you back up David to to a happy do it this was a year I think uh in terms

of the media when the book was the the kind of event book was a thing mm-hmm talked about a lot of them on this here podcast I have a list from there's a couple weeks old but via Brian Stelter of the top five nonfiction hardcover books of this year of 2018. Three of them, I'm going to give a few hints and then let you guess. Three of them are politically related. How many can you name? Two of them are Trump related. How many can you name of the top five hardcover nonfiction books of 2018?

It's from Book Scan. Top five hardcover nonfiction books of this year. Three political to Trump. Oh, man. Oh, man. Is it not Michael Wolfe's book, right? That is number three. At this point, at this point, sold one million,

slightly over one million copies. The Woodward book. Number five, 872,000 copies as of this accounting. One is a memoir. You say another one is political, but not, but not Memoir we talked about a couple of weeks

ago on the podcast she may have been first lady in the Obama administration gonna give you a few hints Oh sure Yeah Becoming

Michelle Obama's book That's great 1.1 million copies It just came out I guess a big book They all sell in the first two weeks anyway It was the arena tour

If just everyone in the arena bought one It would be Right to number one You know Number four on this list David Might surprise you

Girl Wash Your Face by Rachel Hollis I had to look up who what that was. Big fan of that book. 997,000 copies. Wait, can I guess,

is the other one the Bill Clinton James Patterson joint? That's not nonfiction, but, oh, I thought the Carl President is missing. I just assumed that it was, that it was nonfiction.

You thought that was an actual, like, White House caper from the 90s? No, David. No, all right. It's even closer to home than that. With a 1,089,000 copies sold, Magnolia Table by Joanna Gaines.

Oh my gosh. Shipp in Joanna fame. Yes. I almost thought you were going to tell me that Shea Serrano sold a million copies and I was to lose my mind. That'd be amazing. I saw Magnolia Table when I was standing in line buying some last second gifts at Marshalls just yesterday. Wow.

They're moving copies, whichever way they can. I can't wait for the segment on our show next year when they formally launched their new streaming service. It's going to be great. Yeah. I think that would be, that may be a whole 45 minutes just on that. Yeah, absolutely. It's like who needs cable news when we have just the chip on Joanna live stream into our brain. In other book news, political memoir news, in fact, you remember Chris Christie was sort of interviewing to be Trump's new chief of staff the other day, the most doomed job in Washington.

Yeah. Turns out that according to The Washington Post, Christie's lucrative memoir, which is expected to settle some scores will come out in January. It's finished. Being chief of staff would have complicated that. So apparently he wrote a book and it was actually it's actually honest and you know he's he would be fed it he's going to be fed it with this huge book tour right and he'll go on the today show and sure I'm sure all that kind of stuff and I guess being chief of staff no matter how exciting that is would have been a problem. Yeah. Okay. But who floated his name? That was just a PR thing. No, but it was real. Apparently the white house people report on the White House that it was real. like like trump was trump was he was not offered the job but trump was very interested in him actually this time it wasn't just the like i'm gonna lead chris christian and then humiliate him in front of the world which is the previous treatment of chris christi huh by the way would you like to read me to read you the title of chrissey's memoir yes please do let me finish and with a picture of chriski holding a microphone and making and making a pointer finger let me finish trump the cuchner's bannon new jersey and the power of in your face politics

I think the last part of that is the part I appreciate the most. We have to kind of give a name to Chris Christie style of politics and praise it at the same time. The power of in-your-face politics. Holy crap. I'm looking at the cover right now. Would you describe Chris Christie's politics as being particularly powerful over the last couple of years? No. No, I'm just sort of stupefied by this, you know, by you calling this a lucrative book.

like I'm not quite sure how big of a deal. It's kind of in the weird thing. It's like who's going to buy it, right? I mean, it's like it's what we talked about last week with the kind of like, you know, you have to be kind of pro-Trump at this point to sell a book. You need to be like Michael Wolfe or pro-Trump being like I'm a Republican and I have some mixed feelings about Donald Trump seems like a bad place to be. Yeah, I think it's definitely true.

Yeah. I'm looking at a, I'm looking at his, uh, his, uh, his, co-writer right now, Ellis Hennikin. Yeah, who is an AM New York columnist and Fox News contributor. Could have guessed the last part of that. First part was kind of a surprise. Yeah. It looks like he's got a very interesting bibliography here.

He's the co-writer on a lot of books, including How to Catch a Russian Spy. And something called Tuesday's Promise, colon, one veteran, one dog, and their bold quest to change lives. Oh, my God. Oh, also Doc Gooden's memoir. So there we go. Oh, wow. Yeah. So it's like Doc Gooden and then the Mitch Album zone for the second one.

Listen, man. Cash those checks. I was going to say, these all sound like lucrative books. No, no. He seems like he's doing really well. Yeah. In other not end of year news, but sort of end of career news, how about Paul Ryan?

There was this big piece by Ezra Klein and Vox the other day where he was talking about as Klein was kind of saying that he'd been slightly credulous in, in taking Ryan at his word, you know, that he was this man of ideas. And then everybody found out he was just a regular politician really didn't care about many of those ideas at all

when he had a chance to actually do stuff. The, it is amazing to me how Paul Ryan hacked the media in a completely different way than Trump, but hacked it all the same. You know, Trump hacked the media in a way

like a daytime talk show host would hack the media. Just like, I'm just going to, I'm going to throw a chair across the room and see what happens. And, you know, Paul Ryan, pre-Trump went at it in a very different way.

But what turned out to be him very, like, effectively, right? Like, I'm going to talk to Ezra Klein, you know, give him an interview with back in the days of Wonk blog, if I remember correctly. I'm going to talk to him about ideas. I'm going to convince everybody that I'm this guy who's not your normal politician who really, really, you know, cares about ideas and, you know, has a kind of, you know, it's not, you know, he's coming out of the bill. Clinton era, you know, George W. Bush, too. Like, you know, it's like, I'm going to, I'm going to be a guy who's really wants to do things. And, you know, the press corps, the Washington Press Corps was absolutely ready to pounce on that and buy that. You know, they love that idea.

Here's a real, you know, here's a real guy. Here's a real politician. Here's a thoughtful guy that can show us graphs and, you know, be literate with numbers and stuff like that. And then, you know, here we are. And it didn't happen. you know, he was not that guy and didn't even seem to really have any. It wasn't like it was like, oh, I, you know, I wanted to be this guy and failed. It was just sort of like once I got into power, I didn't only care about that at all.

That was amazing. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that, I mean, listen, in Ezra Klein's defense. Great way to start a sudden. Yeah, I mean, he, listen, I mean, he wasn't the only person that sort of took the bait. But, and, and he was one of the few to, to, to, you know, admit. admit even at this late period that he was, yeah, that he was wrong to believe in this kind of persona. But it is, you know, I mean, he was exact, Ezra Klein was like exactly the right age

to get taken by this, right? I mean, and I don't, that's not, I mean, he's, he's 34 now. He's, you know, a full grown man and, and it's not, there's no, no, saying nothing about his age, except he just came along at that exact right time when that myth was being constructed. And it And it probably just like, you know, it did seem like a real thing for a little while, you know? And by the time that it was clear that it wasn't, I think, you know, Paul Ryan was sort of saved by the fact that, like, he was, that no matter how unserious he was, he was actually more serious or, you know, seemingly so than the rest of the Republicans around him. So, you know, waving around charts and graphs does have its benefits. Yeah, Paul Krugman had an interesting tweet where he says, the Paul Ryan question isn't why he has proved to be a phony.

It's why so many commentators took him seriously in the teeth of his obvious fraudulence. I called him out from the beginning but was dismissed and attacked as being partisan, quote unquote. And I think that gets to something interesting, which it really was this different time in Washington journalism, where there was still that sheen an everlasting hope of bipartisanship, or at least of people who liked each other coming together and, you know, you know, fighting for their ideals. And Ryan really understood that that's where the incentives were at that point in history, right? Is to be that guy. You know, it's like being Newt Gingrich at that point was not something that was going to charm the press corps.

Well, it was also a great. Midwestern, you know, straight lace guy who just, I'm just here to have ideas and, you know, we're going to fight about it and be friends tomorrow, you know, kind of thing. And like, that was the way to hack the press corps. Absolutely. It was also a great way to have a national platform without having to commit to any kind of national role, which is, you know, we saw, I think, a little bit of that, the fallout from that when he was so resistant to being speaker when the job was offered to him. Yeah. You know, the stakes for being the smartest guy in the room are super low.

You know, you can always throw up your hands and say, like, I had these charts, you know. Here's a chart. Yeah. But to actually have to, you know, stake your reputation. I mean, then we saw what happened when he's actually given a, I mean, and this isn't even necessarily a reflection on Paul Ryan the man. It's just, it's a, it's a different job responsibility. And he got, you know, he got a lot of attention for kind of having that,

having that, the, you know, the serious intellectual moniker and, and, and no more of the, you know, the serious, I mean the serious introspection into what that means than anybody else. He's got to go down as one of the great victims of Donald Trump. You know,

I mean, he's like one B to Hillary. And just in terms of somebody whose reputation was just flushed. I mean, this is all happening. Right. I mean,

setting aside whether or not he's a deserving victim or whether he set the table for that himself. I would say he was a deserving victim anyway, but I would say the reckoning wouldn't be as sharp if he hadn't been running interference for Donald Trump.

I mean, that's the weird part of this whole journalistic reckoning with him. Is like, do we think this is really happening in the same way? If he hadn't been forced to play defense for Trump for two years and look completely ridiculous doing it the whole time? I mean, that's the thing is it's like that it almost took that to flush his whole bit down the toilet, even though he wasn't really doing it anyway. It's that it's running interference for Trump.

And it's also the seeming, I mean, listen, And we've all taken our shots at the various Republicans who have waited until they announce their retirement to say anything negative about him about Trump. But the way in which Paul Ryan just seems to be totally complacent to just like go take that lobbying job that he's certainly going to take five minutes after he retires. That, you know, and I mean, I think that's that that has a pretty equal share in the, in the sort of damaging of the reputation. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweets, uh, double standards are Paul Ryan Bean. elected at 28 and immediately being given the benefit of his ill-considered policies considered genius and me winning a primary at 28 to immediately be treated with suspicion and scrutinized down to my clothing of being a fraud. So I thought that was interesting too.

I think that there's a distinction going back to what you were saying about the sort of hopefulness of Paul Ryan's career at the beginning is that it's a totally different era. But I do think that there's an element to which in which liberals or at least the Democratic establishment were hopeful that they could find someone to work with in a Paul Ryan. You know, they could meet at least on some intellectual ground in the middle. And Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has been singularly demonized just because, I think, more than anything else, because she actually is evidence of excitement and hope on the other side. You know, I mean, I don't think that it's much more complicated than that.

But it is an obvious double standard, too. Another year in news, I think 2018 will be the year of canceling Facebook. Walt Mossberg, former Wall Street Journal, columnist, All Things D. Found a co-founder came out yesterday and said some personal news. And it actually was personal news. It was not professional news. You know, which is some personal news, I've decided to quit Facebook around the end of the year. I'm doing this after being on Facebook for nearly 12 years because my own values and the policies and actions of Facebook have diverged to the point where I'm no longer comfortable there.

He says he's not trying to urge other people to quit. He just says this is the personal decision about where online I wish to participate. So he's out. And that seems to have been something this year, just quitting Facebook. And we said on Bill's show the other day, it's like, is that Bill said, is that going to be the new personal essay instead of why I left New York. It's why I quit Facebook as published on Medium. That'll be sort of just the new journalistic growth industry.

That's a fantastic idea. So get your essay ready, David. I'm ready. Oh no, I'm already done. Did you already quit? Yeah, I'm so, I was just kind of so exasperated by, I mean, by the time that I quit, it was, it was, it was actually like, I'm pretty sure I did.

I was trying, I was having, I was going through this, I was going through this, this is exactly the problem with me writing an essay about it or with anyone, you know, my skepticism of anyone who writes an essay about it. I am, first of all, yes, they already have my data, so it functionally doesn't matter if I quit. I mean, in any kind of like, like self-preservation way. Yeah. But also, it's like, I determined to quit before I actually quit. And I think by the time I actually did, I'm not sure if I just like, like, fully like logged off, like downloaded all my shit and, and deleted my account.

Or if I just did the sort of half-assed version of it, I'm not exactly. I have no idea. I don't know if I'm so popping up in people's feeds or anything else. But. I might have quit Facebook as a great essay. Yeah, I might have quit. That's it. I'm just so exasperated by the whole thing.

So exhausted by the whole thing that right now, just like, the idea. of typing in the Facebook into my browser to find out if I'm still logged in is just exhausting. This is the theme for this episode is how exhausted. I'm so exhausted by everything. It is Christmas Day.

It's a good time to be exhausted. The last thing I'll leave you with, we were talking about the 2020 candidates the other day. And all these people sort of, you know, angling to get themselves in position to run for president. This has got to be the most amusing one. Not for president,

but running for anything, which is CNN president Jeff Zucker. He gave an interview to David Axelrod on his podcast. The The Axe Files. Mm-hmm. Good title. Zucker said, I still harbor somewhere in my gut that I'm very,

I'm still very interested in politics. He apparently turned down an opportunity to work for Al Gore in 2000. He has talked about running for office. I'm still interested in that, Zucker said. And that's something I'd consider. So Jeff Zucker, not ruling it out,

not really out of run for office. This is, this, this is, this is, this may be Avanati level. Awesome. Oh my gosh. I mean like, what? Oh my God. Yeah, no, it's, it's just crazy. I mean, I guess this is, this is the time of year for people to go out there just to, just to put

out the flyer, right? Just to see what kind of reaction that you get. Yeah. Some personal news. I thought this was going to be a David Axelrod segment and I was just going to, then I was ready to, I was ready to, uh, to go on like a blistering tirade about how political consultants are only good once. But, but yeah, no, I mean, I think it's... If he can manage Zucker's campaign and lead him to victory, then he will, David Axford, will, we'll go up a few notches in my rankings.

That's so bad. Did you enjoy Andrew Cuomo, who's seceding New York from the United States of America for the sake of scoring some, some Democratic primary points? Yeah, that was, that was kind of amazing. He's a great, like I said, we said on the pod the other day, every political journalist is rooting for more people to run for president. I mean, that is just, that is the single, that is the single best thing that could happen to anybody. Yeah. They have no audience, like some of these people have no constituency other than people

that work for the media. That is it, right? That's totally, that's really true. And I think that the, I think that, you know, if you talk to some people in, in, the R&C or just Republicans in general, you'd probably hear him say that that was what led to Trump. being nominated and that in its worst case scenario it can be a really bad thing because with so many people it's like whoever yells the loudest gets the most attention and uh yeah you know it'll be it'll be certainly there's certainly some platform points that democrats could be yelling about that would be

very worth giving voice to yeah but we'll but it's full employment for journalists i mean like it's like the two things that are going to carry journalists like it's a horrible time for for digital media but the two things that will carry us into 2019 or complaining about the college football playoff the structure of the college football playoff and who's running for president. I mean, that's, that's, that's all we got at this point. All right. That is the Christmas Day edition of the press folks.

We're off next week and then we're back in early January, by which time 19 people will probably be running for president. We'll have plenty to talk about. Happy holidays to everyone. Thanks for listening to us. Jim Cunningham's our producer. Chris Almeida helps with research. David Shoemaker.

Happy holidays to you, my friend. I'll see in 2019. Happy holidays, man. David, remember when Remember when the old days we used to just kind of go home to our parents? Waving around charts and graphs. Let me finish. Remember when the old days we used to just kind of go home to our parents?

Mm-hmm. For our Christmas time and all you'd be doing is immediately be treated with suspicion and scrutinized down to my clothing of being a fraud. March or July. What? Or August or, you know. I just realized I don't care anymore. That's totally, that's really true.

And I think that the, I think that. Let me finish. In other, not end of year news, but. sort of end of career news. Did you already quit? Yeah, I'm so, I was just kind of so exasperated by, I mean, by the time that I quit, it was, it was, it was, it was after like, did you actually quit? I'm pretty sure I did. Wow. I think the last part of that is the part I appreciate the most. Mm-hmm.