The Press Box - Van Lathan on What Makes a Good Political Pundit, How TMZ Shaped Him and His Career, and a Very Special Request for Hillary Clinton and His Mom.

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

Hello, media consumers! While Bryan is on vacation, Joel is in the driver’s seat and he welcomes in The Ringer’s own, Van Lathan (3:10). They kick off the show by discussing their paths to today��s episode then talk about the following: How Van prepares for his CNN appearances (6:56) Stephen A. Smith as a presidential candidate (17:52) Who will be the face of the NBA (32:23)? NIL ruining college sports (44:19) Van’s time at TMZ and what he learned (51:23) Life after confronting Kanye West (1:03:29) Host: Joel Anderson Guest: Van Lathan Producers: Brian H. Waters and Jonathan Kermah Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, humanoids. It's the Masked Man here, David Shoemaker. It's officially a WrestleMania season, and we've got you covered here on the Ringar Wrestling show. Kaz here, every Monday and Thursday hang out with me and my gosh shoes from the Masked Man show. And Ben Cruz here. Come kick it with me, Cal, and Brian on Tuesdays for Ringar Wrestling worldwide, where we hit on the most interesting headlines and even react to some of mass men's and even your hottest takes. Don't tap out, tap in to the Ringer Wrestling show feed now on Spotify.

or wherever you get your podcasts. Worldwide. Be a consumers. Welcome to Pressbox. You've got me, Joel Anderson, and producer, Brian Waters, on the ones and twos. Our fearless leader, Brian Curtis, is piloting a rented Winnebago.

Actually, I don't know if it's a Winnebago introversing the Great American Southwest with his wife and two children. Let's please wish them all safe travels and that nothing happens out there that will make me call him Clark Griswold for the next few months. Today, we have a very big, very different pod. There's no J-school, but I still expect all of y'all to turn on your assignments next week.

But listen, so before I started working here, almost everyone I spoke with at the Ringer, and that's from Bill Simmons on down, said, I'd love to see you talk with Van Lacey. I'd love to see you talk with Van. And it was flattering, but I couldn't understand exactly why. And I didn't know if it was because I take myself too seriously and Van doesn't. seem to do much of that at all. If it was because I have like this glorious, naturally curly, Creole inherited hair and van, you know what I'm saying?

Does not have that. You know, if it's simply because we're just two brothers from the South, we love college football, you know, if it's because we both enjoy a fruity drink, or if it's because they couldn't afford Bermani and I was the next best option, you know what I'm saying? It might have been met. Bumani's a millionaire, you know what I'm saying?

Y'all may not know that. I don't know. But anyway, now they brought it. is out of the way. I decided to reach out to the good brother van and have him sit in with me for this episode. So look, we'll cover a few things currently in the news and I'm going to ask him a few

questions about his career and how he ended up here. Like, no less than his good buddy. You called him your deputy in the book van. Charlamina God said the van belonged on complexes hip-hop media power ranking, like higher than he was. It kind of got lost because it was buried in a

longer diatribe aimed at hip-hop journalist Elliot Wilson, but that's neither here or there. The point is, Van is a heavyweight in this game and I want to know more about him and I hope y'all do too. So here's the podcaster, political pundit, sports commentator, published author, thought leader, Oscar award winning producer Van Lathen. What's up, Vair? I am well. What a, what an intro. I'm pleased to be here, brother, please to be here. Please also, I haven't been able to tell you this. Please to have you as part of the ring or family.

Oh, man, look, I would argue that you actually have a lot to do with me being here, right? Like, you, I mean, look, people, we don't have to get to, because this is not about me. Right. But I do know that Van reached out to Bill when I was briefly unemployed and was like, hey, he's available now. I do know you did that. So I'm very appreciative for you, brother. Thank you. Thank you for that.

Seriously. Big fan loved the stuff that you were doing at your old shop. And I would tell you that all the time. It was just fantastic. actually in ways it's the type of stuff that I still hope to do the type of stuff that you guys were doing. Man, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, you're the one with the Oscar, so we can, you know what I'm saying? We could do the mutual admiration society thing, but you're the certified brother right here, you know what I'm saying?

But I appreciate you saying that seriously. I mean, this is why I wanted you here. This is me auditioning to be your friend, actually, is what it is more than anything. You know what I'm saying? So we're going to see. I asked Bumani about Bum Bum B. You know what I'm saying? The other day I was like, Is Bum B going to be my friend? I don't know. You know what I'm saying?

So I've got some irons in the fire. And I'm hoping that, you know, this is another one. I'm trying to refresh my friend group a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Last time I was in Houston, I texted Bum B. Come on, man. Come on. You got Bum B's number like that?

And me and Bum B did a show together. And I texted Bum Bambi last time I was in Houston. This was the text. I'm flying into your city. What's the best strip club in town? Now, Bunby's response. No idea. That is a really solid brother who is in the world of being a family man and a thought leader.

I thought I was getting Bunby from 1998. And Bunby quickly reminded me that he got Trill Burgess to sell and culture to move and to get out of his face with all of that. That's crazy, man. You know what? There was a time of my life when I probably could have answered that too. I probably could have given you like the top three. I could have given you a top three.

But yeah. Just in Houston. In Houston. Yeah. I mean, I've lived in Atlanta, Tampa, and Houston.

And I think those are, those are the top three cities, right? I mean, I guess I've never been to one in Vegas. Vegas sucks. Vegas is a terrible strip club city. Vegas is bad.

I thought Tampa wasn't great. So any strip club city that is for the tourist of the city is a bad strip club city. Okay. A strip club city that concentrates on the locals is a good strip club city. Like if you're, like New Orleans is a bad strip club city

because New Orleans is for the tourists. And so you're not cultivating repeat customers there. You're getting a different person pretty much every weekend. And so that it, it degrades the quality of your strip club if you're not concentrating on the locals and the repeat customers. That's real, you know what? And you know what's the low key when I did not intend to, start this way. You know what? It's a low-key good one. Have you been there? Dallas. Dallas is

actually not bad. Oh, you know what? I have been the one in Dallas. I think it was called Deli-C? I don't know where. X-C. I think I went there. I don't remember. Oh, okay. I, you know what? Okay. I'm the billboard. I'm seeing it in my head here. So, okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have me both. Well, look, maybe, you know what? Say, hit bun up. You know what I'm saying and see maybe the next time I, you know, we can see if he can, he can at least give you like what he knew back in the day. Because I mean, all the, all the same ones are still there. Just, you know, folks move around. Anyway, let me, I did not expect to start off talking about strip clubs, but that's, that's why we're here. That's where I'm on. That's what, that's why

we, that's why you're here, brother. That's why you hear. But, I mean, in the daytime, you're, I mean, you're partially, you're CNN certified political pundit. And I just kind of wanted to start with some of your general thoughts about our current political moment. And so the first one, though, is like, what are the key ingredients to being a good political pundit in 2025? Like, are you preparing any differently for Abby Phillip than you are for talking with, like, Rachel? Yeah. So when I'm talking with Rachel, I have a lot more room to expound, which sometimes leads to me getting a little bit in my own way. When you're all, On one of those other shows,

you have to be sharp in getting out your point, but also you have to be very present in understanding what people are saying to you. I think that there is a part of me that when I am going to go on CNN and one of these other places and talk, that I'm making sure that I'm boning up on the political news

and understanding specifics about the way government works that you kind of have to refresh because, you know, civics was so long ago and college was so long ago and it seems like sometimes America doesn't have a really vested interest in the average American knowing that much about government, so you're doing that

a little bit. But more than that, right now I think it's important for everybody to be paying attention to politics, everybody to be paying attention to policy because there's so many decisions being made in the way things are affecting the average American.

So I try to stay up on that, not just for my appearance, on these various shows, but so that I have skin in the game as a voter, and I can actually be somebody who the people in my life can ask questions to because they can always get to the people that they see on TV. That's great. So how are you cultivating that media diet?

Because, I mean, it used to be a time. I used to have like Google Reader, and that was like a real good way for me to keep out with stuff. And then Twitter, when it was a more reliable news source, you could do it that way. So what are you reading and how are you reading it? So I try to split a little bit. I try to read. Now, I do have, I have to read things from reputable news sources.

So I certainly want to get the entire diaspora of political thought, meaning I want to be a little bit on the left, a little bit on the right to make sure I understand what people are saying about. Like, for example, the signal gate thing that's happening right now with, you know, the Atlantic journalist that was added to some, everybody's heard about it, some pretty, classified and secretive, we don't know if it's classified yet, conversations that were happening on Signal. You want to know what people think about that. You want to know three things about it. Number one, you want to know the perspective from the right

and the perspective from the left, but you also want to know the perspective legally. You want to know whether or not that was legal. You want to know whether or not that, like, what are the actual, like, how would you actually do that? If you were going to communicate electronically between the Secretary of State

or the National Security Advisor and it wasn't going to be a signal, how would they do it? What is the way that you're supposed to do it? Why is it wrong that they did it that way? Why is it particularly dangerous that they did it that way? And the more you have an actual interest

in the nuts and bolts and the guts of a story, you'll start to realize who's reporting it wrong. You'll start to realize that you've read three or four or five different things and they talked about how incompetent Pete Hickseth is or Stephen Miller is or Tulsi Gabbard is, but they haven't really told you why they're incompetent.

They haven't really told you what the stakes of it are. They haven't told you what the potential laws that could be broke. They haven't told you what the actual process for discussing that type of stuff is. And then you pull back and you go to a place that has that type of information and then you start to build a news diet that you can rely on. There are other services that I use. I use ground news. I'm not trying to give them a free ad,

but ground news is a service that diagnoses your news, and it gives you some stuff that's on the left and some stuff that's on the right, and it tells you what's biased and what's not. And when I hear about things like that, I always try. But, you know, I'm subscribed to all this stuff. I want political CNN, Fox News, all of that stuff.

It's when I wake up, it's inundated. I'm inundated with it in my email. Are you doing that when you get up in the morning? Are you like, all right, let me just go ahead and dive in. and get it all out. Do you have like a routine for that? Or is it just? Yeah.

Oh, it's okay. So when I wake up in the morning, the first thing I do is go for a walk, like about, I'll say like a 45-minute walk. So I wake up at about seven and I go for that walk. That helps me with getting the sun in my eyes for,

you know, because I struggle with depression in the past and the way that affects your circadian rhythm. Actually, for as much as people say about Andrew Huberman from Huberman Lab, when I was struggling with my depression, that actually was a very, important podcast for me because

a lot about the podcast is about regulating your sleep. So he talks about how to wake up and get some sun in your eyes and doing all that. Those are things that I continue to do. But while I'm doing that, I put something in my ears. So I'll listen to the articles or I'll listen to the stuff that's on YouTube. I'll get it all. I'll have questions. I'll start a little cue and I'll play it all.

I'll come back and then I'll get into my day and I'll also do it at the end of the day as well. Yeah. Okay. Man, that's what's up. I mean, that, that, because I was telling somebody the other day, I was like, you know, the competition for my ears is fierce. Like, if I, if I, if I just listened to my friends' podcast, I'd be listening to stuff all day long, right? And so you're probably like, I mean, so, like, I shouldn't ask you this question, but how many ringer podcasts do you not listen to? Because we have so many podcasts.

I don't listen to any podcasts. Huh. I don't listen to the stuff that I'm on. I don't listen to you know what? And that's a big problem. I should be listening to I should be listening to,

well, there is one podcast that I listen to a lot of the ring. The town. I love the town. By the way, all of the ringer podcasts that I, they're all fantastic.

And what I mean, but when I say that, I actually mean it. I mean, Real Ones is one of my favorite favorite podcast at the record. You know what I mean? Obviously what Bill is.

I love, you know, Ryan and all of this stuff. But I typically don't like the sound of my own voice. Yep. Because I can hear when I'm stumbling over words and when I'm trying to sound a little bit too flowery and all of that stuff. But, you know, I listen to like a lot of weird shit. I don't know if you've heard it. Like, I listen to like videos about Yoda and about Anakin Skywalker.

Walker and I listen to like Lord videos and I put on YouTube and listen to like three hour videos about Game of Thrones and like fan videos. Like what would have happened if Ned Stark wouldn't have been killed? If you make an hour and a half video on that, I'll listen

to it. Wow. But there are other podcasts that I check in with a little bit more, but I don't listen to a lot of podcasting. I mean, that may actually be working out better for you. You know what, can be honest with you?

It's actually probably hurting me. I should probably listen to myself a little bit more. I should probably listen to other pods a little bit more just to grow as a podcaster. And I genuinely listen to these podcasts. Excuse me. I genuinely enjoy listening to these podcasts. I really do enjoy listening to them when I listen to them.

But like, I just get so deep into listening to all of this, like, nerd shit and news stuff that I'm into. And then sports stuff that a lot of times, I don't find a lot of room for the other stuff. No, no, no. Well, I mean, that fuels you, though. And it keeps you going to, so you can get to the stuff, the stuff you need to listen to, right? Because I don't listen to a lot of podcasts either.

And in fact, it's really embarrassing to work at the Ringer. And I tell people, I was like, I've never seen Game of Thrones, never seen Star Wars, none of that stuff. Like, it's just, you know, just not my bag. You know, I mean, I don't, I'm, you know, beef against it, but I just don't do it. And, you know, you got to fit. You live a life with no spice. you don't care about it to enjoy it. Right?

So you don't want to, you like being, you're from Houston, right? Yeah. So you like being in the Jason's lyric life. That's the life you like being. You want to be right there

in the wards with a fine woman cooking soul food or whatever and the thing. You want to be in that place trying all of that stuff being out there with the homies. You don't want to go to a galaxy

far far away or go to Westrose or anything like that. You like the wards. The ghetto boys. I'm grounded. I'm in the ground. You're grounded. That's cool. I just, yeah, I'm not a fantasy sci-fi person. You know what I'm saying? My mama is a huge one of those. You would think that that's what that would have influenced me, but no, like I just don't. It's not me. But you know what? And it's not for everybody. I, I, the funniest person, though, to me

is the person that hasn't yet realized that it's for them. Because I've turned so many of my homeboys onto this stuff, right? Mm-hmm. And you can watch them be like, man, I'm not trying to watch that shit, bro. For real. Dog, I'm not trying to watch that shit. I'm like, man, look, I'm about to put it on.

And that's what I watch. And they're watching it. In 30 minutes in, they're like, yo, why can he move like that? And I'm like, oh, he's using the force. What's the force? Oh, man, the force bonds everything. It's the living life force of the entire universe. And you can manipulate it and use it to be like,

okay, so they're using the force. when they do that. Okay, cool. Then by the time you know it, they call you next. Hey, man, what's the next one? Like, you're trying to see that. But then you didn't made yourself a little Star Wars fan. Man, you know, I do think that I have the capacity to enjoy that stuff,

but I just have not, I haven't cleared the schedule, the time in my schedule for it yet. Get it? I get it. You do you. But once again, like we said before, you're making really deep, immersive pod stuff that you were doing. So I would imagine that that took up a lot of time and stuff. well i would say that but also i'm married to somebody that does not watch tv basically at all except for ready to love i don't know that's a dating show uh will packer produce show

seen that yeah right yeah and uh that's really about it you know what i'm saying so i you know i have two kids we i usually am watching videos of monster trucks crushing uh watermelons that's what my son likes to watch that's what i'm talking about yeah so i mean that's kind of you know some some weird shit as it is but anyway man how do I think I can see that this is going to happen to us over and over again

yeah for sure what I do yeah I appreciate it that's why you hear Stephen A. Smith is polling as a viable presidential candidate who are you currently most interested in

as a top of the ticket candidate and who is like the wildest public figure who could fuck around and conceivably be taken seriously. Like how far to the Tyson zone can we go with this from Stephen A? So I don't think a candidate that I'm interested in for president has emerged yet because I think that I'm thinking a little bit more specific in terms of what particularly the

left needs and leadership. So I'm not really thinking about an overall leader of the party. I'm thinking about like, you know, who should be leading the House Democrats. whether or not Hakeem Jeffries is doing a good enough job over there, whether or not Chuck Schumer is fit for leadership, particularly after, you know, him caving on the continuing resolution vote or the culture vote regarding the continuing resolution a couple of weeks ago, whether or not there needs to be new leadership in the House and the Senate. Not saying that there does, I mean, I think that Chuck Schumer's time is over,

but I'm looking at things like that. I'm looking at people who will emerge that. can fight an agenda that I believe is anti-American. So, you know, there are people that I like, I like Chris Murphy. I, you know, like AOC, obviously, you know, like Jasmine Crockett. Did you like walls? Did you like over the walls? No.

Huh. Really? Not really. Okay. I think that I didn't dislike him, but I think that he was positioned as somebody that I was supposed to like. Mm-hmm. And I think that that's kind of a problem with,

the left right now. They position themselves in a way that says, here, I am the person that you're supposed to like. I believe in this and that and this and that and all of these things,

but yet it's kind of not the person that you want to like. Because the person that you want to like doesn't brow beat you with things. The person that you want to like is an easy hang. The person that you want to like inspires you. Like you think about the people

that you play basketball with is people that like you get out there and you're moving in concert with them and you get them, they don't have to be perfect. You know, they might take too many shots and make you want to send more screens.

They might not shoot enough. You know what I mean? And that makes you want to kind of get them open. But like, you have a real connection. And they have problems right now. I think there are problems on the left right now with identifying that person.

So they keep casting it. They keep casting the person rather than letting that person manifest organically. So, yeah, I don't know yet as far as president who is going to be there. But I think it's very possible that it could be a non-traditional candidate like a Stephen A. Smith or John Stewart or someone that comes from the sphere of charisma, the charismaverse. Can I tell you, since we're here for a second, can you tell you who sort of broke my heart, who I thought would have been great? Al Franken.

Oh, yeah. Well, he had some issues, didn't he? Yeah, he had some issues. But I thought that, so I think that would a good foil for Trump is somebody that could humiliate him and make fun of him and make him look small. And I was like, what better to do that

than a dry-ass comedian. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I thought that would have been his particular skill. But of course, you know, life happened to that brother. It did. Can I tell you the guy that I believe is going to the guy in the vein.

It's going to be in the vein of this guy, should I say. Jesse Ventura. Hmm. Now, Jesse Ventura is obviously old, but when you thought about, when you looked at Jesse, Jesse was a guy that exuded, and policy-wise, you're not always on the same page with a guy like Jesse Ventura, but he's a guy that exuded a masculinity that didn't feel like it was rooted in anything other than truth. Like he actually was a special forces operator.

He actually did these things. And he didn't really apologize for very much. He believed the things that he believed and he believed that they were right for people and good for people. He didn't really apologize for those beliefs. So you didn't see him, him and at Han a lot. He didn't see him going places a lot where people were calling. him down on the floor and making him a whipping boy for different policy positions or people

they have been with. And they're not very many people like that on the left. They, they, they're able to get people on the left and make them say sorry. Like, make them say sorry. The first thing they do is they go, hey, do you condemn Tesla dealerships being burnt up? Right. I'm like, who would want a Tesla dealership to be burnt up? Like, who will want that, Who will want the... Who amongst us? I don't know anybody. It's like, hey, man, that was a great thing

that they burnt up the Teslas. Who will want that? Nobody will want that. But in order to get somebody, when you put somebody in a position where they have to contend with that and say that, what you're essentially asking them to do

is to say, admit that your side has bad people in it. Yeah. Which every side has bad people in it. But it's a way to weaken the overall argument and I'm sorry there's a faction of the right

that is completely resolute and they will say that it's okay that the president pardon the proud boys and it's okay that they were using the signal chat and they were talking about

very sensitive information over it and then they won't give an inch but the first thing they want you to do is give that inch and in order for you to be considered moral to everyone, you have to take a little bit of that whipping. So if you believe in something and if you're in a fight, don't take unnecessary shots. Don't get punched in your mouth for no reason.

If you're going to take a shot, take one to give one. I feel that. In journalism and media, there's like this increasing concern about being targeted by this administration, right? The Trump administration is very punitive and that they will hurt you. If you report things that they don't like, if you know, push them in certain ways, right? And so nonetheless, and that brings me to you, like, you do care about black Americans and talk about them quite often in a way that suggests, at least to me, like real care and concern about what happens to us collectively, right? Right.

That is obviously not really high on the priority list of President Trump. So how much danger do you really think black people are in at this moment? And has that changed how you approach your work at all? I don't think we're in any more danger or any less danger than we've always been. I think that there are losses with this current administration. And those losses are very direct, but they're all policy-based. They're not based in what I would call the overall American experience of blackness, which is one that, to me, and it's, in the truth of this,

existence is perpetually in peril. Right? So, but like, that's not to say that there are things, a given example. Like, coming from Louisiana, obviously that place is, has a lot of, you know, environmental danger. A lot of, you know, and if I'm being honest, the Biden administration, not if I'm being honest is the truth. The Biden administration was doing a lot in terms of cleanup.

They had initiatives that were specifically for cleaning up black community. and addressing environmental justice. Those things are gone. Trump got rid of them. Like a lot, and that means something. That actually hurts people. So I'm not saying that like this administration, which has prided itself on being anti-woke,

that will then, like, rope in anything that has anything to do with restorative justice into being woke, that it doesn't have direct policy effects on black people. It does. so we're worse off politically. But in terms of the danger that we're in, black Americans will be in danger in America

until there is a full-throated effort from American society to reconcile the history and the president of this country. And that can't come from wanting black people to get what they deserve. Hmm. What do you mean? Okay.

So there's never going to be a time where you're going to have cultural will for black people to get what they deserve in America, right? What you would have to want is for American society to be better. And for American society to be better, to me, justice and restoration always makes everything. everything better. For American society to be better, you'd have to prioritize the individual capitalization of the American citizen. Like, what are we getting out of people? You'd have to look at places like South Baton Rouge and go, you know what?

It's a bad thing that so many of the black men are being lost to violence and to drugs and to incarceration. Those brothers could be plumbers and architects. They could be producers and they could be people who, who move society forward. Like there's a guy in prison some right where right now that's making all kinds of different prison machines so that they could fry chicken

and that brother might be able to be an engineer. You'd have to look at society and go, the people that we are losing are as important as the people that we are making. And because of that, we should fix these communities. And because of that, we should restore the well, that these people were, were, were, um, were, were, um, were exploited for it.

We should restore the wealth that was stolen from them. And that's better for everyone. It's better for everyone if we prioritize that. And until we get to that point, I don't think that there'll ever be a reason for America to, to endeavor and to restorative justice for black people just because of what happened to us, because I don't think anybody really cares. So, and I'm going to try to... Okay, so are you essentially saying, and I don't want to put words into your mouth, but I'm going to put words into your mouth.

Is it foolhardy to spend time fretting about the idea that we won't get reparations in this country? No, it's not, because the reason why it's not is because if you read from here to equality by Sandy Darity, which is a book that always, there are so many books on reparations and, so many books on justice when it comes to this, there are a million books that you can read, but that's one that makes the case very plainly. It's important to know and to understand that it's not just lip service. The conversation around reparations

or any type of restorative justice is as important for the conversation itself as it is for the goal. Okay. So the conversation deepens your understanding of the black experience in America, but it also deepens your understanding of what the American experiment is supposed to be and how it's working for some and not for others.

So that conversation around reparations and around restorative justice in any way is an important conversation to have just to be able to diagnose the issue. So I don't know if this is necessarily related, but you're saying this has kind of sparked my interest in this because there's a conversation on the internet. And I don't know how many press box listeners are familiar with it. But there are a lot of people in the wake of the November election, a lot of black voters, black women in particular who are like,

fuck it. I'm not going to get what you deserve. We're done. What do you think of that approach? I understand it, but obviously you fuck yourself. You know, I get it. I do get it. But it's kind of, it's just not the way society.

works. The way society works is, you know, and I've, look, I've been guilty of this. I've sitting on higher learning. I've had to do some soul searching because it comes from an emotional place more than anything where you go, you know what? If it's fuck you, if it's fuck me, it's fuck you, right? What happens is, you know, you immiserate one group of people and they don't go, okay, I'm going to get up and go to Mexico. They go, okay, I'm going. Okay. I'm going. Okay. I'm I'm going to get up and go in your living room. You know what I mean? And so it's not as if you can,

it's so corny, but we all need each other. And it's a society that we're trying to build. So you can't, I understand the need and the want and the desire to kind of turn things off and concentrate on a very narrow group or narrow focus.

But at some point, you have to care about the politics and the ramifications about some of these issues on communities other than your own because that's just the way society is set up. Let me throw a few sports questions at you now. Nice. All right. Who do you think is the face of the NBA if there is one? And do you understand why Anthony Edwards wants absolutely no parts of that?

Anthony Edwards can't be the face of the NBA. because he can't control his dick okay you cut to the chase okay he can't control his dick like look the shit that Anthony Edwards is getting into and he is turning up

in order to be the face of the NBA you have to be a guy not that safe but you can't be a dick and an asshole and I'm gonna be honest with aunt. Ant is one of the most charismatic

people around when you get him in an interview. But then you get the text messages and aunt is telling some girl, yeah, that baby put the guillotine on him. Kill him. Dead. Gotta go. And he is, aunt is like the motherfucking King Vaughn of unborn babies. You know what I'm saying? So you

What did Charles and White say about King Vaugh? He's like, that's one of Satan's best soldiers. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And we live in the time where a lot of that shit about you, we live in a time when somebody says you're the face of the NBA and it's a million people going, yo, do I have a good relationship with this person?

Because how this person is going to be the face of the NBA when they fucked over me? So I honestly think that we're actually past the face of the NBA. I don't think it's possible anymore. I don't think we can have a face of anything. I think almost everything, when we talk about, we're past the movie star.

We're past the singular, besides, honestly, Donald Trump on the right, the singular, like I said earlier, super galvanizing Democrat. Like the last gasp of that we saw was Obama. There's probably going to be faces. of the NBA, but I'm not so sure

that there's enough cultural similarity between the people who are watching the game anymore for there to be one person that the league

can kind of rest on anymore, but it's certainly not Anthony Edwards. And it can't, I mean, obviously can't be like Yonke,

right? Like can't be, maybe it could be Luca, though. It may be, it's never going to, it's hard for the foreign guys, though.

Yeah. The thing I think about Luca is that he's got a little swag. You know what I mean? He plays 14 that has a huge fan base. Like I feel like the Lakers have never had this white guy before, right? Right. And I feel like maybe there's a chance, but you're right. You know what?

I've never seen him in front of a camera like pitching anything. You know, the face of the league thing is not something that, like, you anoint somebody with. They take it. It's just when it was Steph, and it was definitely Steph for a time in LeBron's era it was definitely Steph

when it was Steph we didn't even see Steph coming with the face of the league thing Steph would go off and it would be like oh my God Steph's got 25 in the first again

Steph's not missing again and then you just were like hey whenever that guy is on I have to watch him because everybody might be talking about I might be missing something spectacular then you see him

he's pretty cool, he's got the whole, look at his routine, he crosses over, Chris Paul, Chris Falls. It starts to be, then the warriors start to win, and they revolutionize basketball. You have to grab culture by the balls. You can't give it to somebody and then let them play themselves into it. They got to take it. And so I just don't see anybody that can do that. Like, Jai like guns, and Zion, they like these holes too much. So I'm saying I just don't see anybody that has the right package for it to happen. I'm just being for real. That's what I'm.

In your great memoir, and it's tales from the trenches of transformation, fat, crazy and tired, you talked about how TMZ provided a, quote, zoo animal experience to covering celebrities. And it's got me thinking about how we've covered athletes for generations. And it's actually one of the reasons why I wanted to get into sports writing as a youth. Like, I just remember, like, the, you know, the Sports Illustrated cover story about the athletes with the kids or the infatuation into our community's pathology. Like, either the Michael Orr life story and the blind side, right? Like, that's another example. I was like, I just would like to be one of the people that tell those stories, but from another perspective.

Do you see any parallels there, like sports coverage with the way the TMZ covers celebrities? It's worse for the athletes. Ooh. Okay. So TMZ covers celebrities, and at the end of the day, it still helps the celebrities. Celebrities are lying to you guys. They want to be on TMZ. Now, they don't want to be on TMZ for things that are earth-shattering, right?

but and they don't want to be on TMZ like, you know, beating up their spouse or anything like that. They want those things to be taken care of by PR and they want those little fires or those big fires put out. But when they're walking around,

when they, even if you get like a DUI or something like that, like they want there to be a story being taught hold on them in their regular normal life. They want that. They want there to be an unfolding novel surrounding them.

This happened and then this happened and this happened and this happened and this happened. That no publicity, that, you know, there's no such thing as bad publicity thing. These people believe that. And I've dealt with them and talked to them in the whole day. Okay, well, shit, it's going up on the site.

How can we capitalize? How can we capitalize? Like, this just happened. Athletes, it's all bad for them. it's all bad. The league puts a face on them or puts an expectation on them they're still part of a team

right? And so and that team is a part of a league. So there is a much larger organization that gets to decide what's right or wrong for them. So so many things in their lives they try to

very specifically manicure. And it takes away a little bit of their personhood, right? You can make the wrong joke. And it's not just you that people come at. They come at the league. They come at this. They come at all of that. And there's a code of morals and ethics and all of that stuff.

So they are so afraid a lot of times. So afraid of how they're perceived. So afraid of what's going to happen. So afraid. I, man, the lead not going to want me to do that. My people not going to want me to do that. And so for them, this new era of social media, 24-hour news cycle,

seeing them everywhere, they're going everywhere, they're doing everything. It's almost impossible. Like Carson Beck, you know, right now is down in my... See what's going on with that? Like, it's just, it's impossible to come out of that looking like a good or decent person, particularly when we want to believe

that athletes are all good and decent people. So it's really harder for them to me. Well, I just wanted for people. So first of all, Carson Beck was dating. Was a Haley Cavender? That was the best one of the Cavender Twins in Miami. His car got, their cars got stolen. And then they broke up and it was because they had all these DMs.

Is that what you're talking about about? Yeah, I'm talking about that. I'm talking about the fact that now, you know, yeah, you know, he has a reputation. And then he has some other texts that got out there. He has a reputation of being, you know, the horniest white quarterback in a long time. Who was hornier? Johnny Manzell was horny. Johnny Manzell was horny.

Yeah. The white quarterbacks don't ever get that much credit for horniness. Like, it's like Johnny Mansell was super horny. This guy's, Tom Brady was pretty, well, maybe not. Not really horny like that. The thing is, because I remember, I covered the Texans when David Carr was there. And the thing is, they kind of have to come ready made as like upper management, right? I remember Dave, he was like married when he came into the league.

And it's like we all think, oh, man, they're out there getting it in and maybe they are. But the image that they got to project is one of stability at home. They're like, my quarterback is not going to be out. It treasures in Houston. You know, 2.30 a.m. Like, he needs to be in his, you know, playbook, watching film, all that kind of stuff. I think that, I'm not saying it's not happening, but I understand how they feel like that's the image they have to project the people. Yeah. And so now with just the way things are and with those traditional beliefs about athletes still kind of being there, I think it's much harder for the athletes. Much harder.

That's not like a lot of fun. It still is. Well, it's fun. Yeah, right. They're having great fun. Not being able to live out loud. Do you know how I know when the athletes were having fun? please tell me. So during the pandemic, I joined a 32 team Madden League. And the guys in this league were NBA guys.

Everybody got a team. There was a draft. And 32 real teams. Like, we're playing real games. We're playing a real NBA. And we're playing a real NFL season. Brough. The motherfuckers from the NBA were so

fucking good at Madden, bro. Remember, I'm just leaving TMZ. I get fired from TMZ in 19. I'm getting back on Madd. Right? I got a little bit more time to play Madden now, but still not that much. I'm getting back on Madden.

So I'm in this motherfucker throwing four or five picks again. I'm like, what the hell? Like, they are so good. And then one of my homies told me he was like, bro, legitimately, bro, get up, go to practice. You know what I'm saying? If we have a game, we're playing the game. But if we're not playing the game, we're on the game.

And then after we off the game, we play the game for a long time. And then we go out to the clubs at night. We party. We come back. We do this. We do the thing. We get paid. We go to practice, shoot around, treatment.

Play the game. Play the game. I'm like, that sounds amazing. That sounds like what I wanted in college. Right. Yeah, right. You know what I was like, man, I kind of wish I could. I wish that life was accessible to me.

Yeah. Right. That sounds amazing. So I was like, when do you meet with your people and talk over strategies? Nah, no, no, people do that for me. People I don't got nothing to do about that. Plus, you know, only a couple guys need that. We own the game and we on these holes and then we're on the court.

I'm like, there you go. Man, that's what's up. Well, okay. Since we kind of talking about college football and college sports and so much has changed in just like the last four to five years and like this virtual free agency guys can make that name off NIL name image and likeness and stuff

first of all did you ever think we'd be here and has it all impacted your enjoyment of the game whatsoever okay so I didn't think that we would be here like we are now and it's interesting I'll tell you this I am happy that NIL exists.

School's making a lot of money. And we'll see what happens with some of the legislation that's happening right now and some of the revenue sharing and whether or not it continues to exist in the current form that exists right now. But there's no doubt about the fact that NIL is ruining college sports. Ooh. No doubt about that. Really? NIA on the transfer portal are ruining college sports.

And that's okay. Maybe college sports need to be ruined, right? ruin it because there's no roster stability from year to year. Is that what you mean? College sports are college sports. And professional sports are professional sports. Right. Right.

Now, you are not about to hear me talk about the fact or say that some kid from New Iberia shouldn't get half a million dollars to go to LSU. I'm never going to say that. I'm glad for him. I'm glad for his family. What is sad, though, is when that kid, and I know these kids, has wanted to go to LSU his entire life,

has wanted to be in purple and gold, has wanted to go to Texas or Alabama or one of these other places, right? And they have the opportunity to go and be a part of something that is culturally significant. That's a thing that exists in college football, that in college sports, that doesn't exist other places.

There's a cultural significance that the game has to me that separates it from the NFL. This is not me saying that the NFL doesn't have any culture. Obviously, it does. But I'm talking about the specific and distinct culture that exists in college football and college sports more to the point is why people love it. The product in these other professional leagues is better. Let's be honest. But we love it because the smell of the grass where we're from,

you're representing the people and a community and a group, right? That's supposed to play a part in college sports. It's part of it, right? It's just less important when money gets involved. And when that much money gets involved,

the money becomes the thing that's more important, particularly when you're talking about young black athletes from the South. It ain't enough culture to make you go to the school that you've been wanting to go to that represents your home, state where all of your favorite athletes went where you're supposed to go and learn how to be actually a man. It's not enough culture to make you go there if you can change your life and

change your family's life going somewhere else. And I'm cool with it. But it's time to admit that NIL and a transfer portal doesn't quite work for college football. And there need to be some reforms if college football is to exist in any of the way that we experienced it in its past incarnation. Do you think you'd feel that way if Brian Kelly was better at it? Maybe. Maybe I would. Or if we had the best collective, or maybe if we, if we were Notre Dame or Texas or if we

had a, if we were Ohio State and we had the best collective, our collective is coming on. You know who I want to talk about right now? I want to talk about Todd Grace. I went back to Baton Rouge and I seen it's Raising Canes everything. It's Raising Canes Dog Park. It's Raising Keynes the River Center.

It used to be called the Central Place. Raising Keynes, Raising Keyes, Raising Keyes, we made this man rich off chicken fingers. We need $100 million. Give up the money, Todd. We love it. Stealing Baton. Bringing Drusky to the games is cool.

Bringing people, that's cool. That's great. We need $100 million. for the recruits. I want the best quarterbacks out of California only. You got Nussmire. Nussmire's not bad.

He's supposed to be good. Nussmire's a good QB. We got some good QB. All I'm saying is, I mean, to be honest with you, is, you know what I like more than, you're right. And everybody, now we're, our competition on the field

is essentially about how well-resourced our donors are. And look, maybe it was always that way. And you can make, the argument that it was always that way, right? But man, do you know who the type of player that makes me feel good about LSU is Morris Claibor?

It's Tyne Matthew. Bro, I covered Morris Claiborne in high school, man. Is guys that come from, that's Fair Park and Streetport, right? Fair Park High School. Is guys that come from parts of the state at LSU, Louisiana guys, and LSU just ends up being

the right situation for them. Chedavius White. Chedavius White. LSU just ends up being the right situation for them. It ends up being that they're getting an offer from a school

that they always wanted to play at and because they're home, because of the pride, they just blossom. They just turning the dogs. You know what I mean? And that part of the game is that is going to

suffer when you have to put, when you have to give preferential treatment to the transfers that you're bringing in, now the kids behind are getting the same snaps with the ones and the twos so they're not developing the same way. You're seeing, my man Carter from Power Hour LSU said this, he's saying you're seeing a lot of four stars and five stars busts at a higher rate now because when the transfers come in and these guys only got one year to play, maybe two years to play, you got to put those guys on the field. So some of your developmental players,

even if they're high level players, even if they're guys, your quote unquote can't miss guys, they're not getting as much run and as much attention in practice, you would think that a five-star would. But I think it's hurting the development of a lot of these kids.

So we're seeing a little bit of craziness now. But anyway, I'm not going to go too far about I always talk too much. No, no, no, no, no. I love it. I love it. I love it. But, man, I got so many questions for you. And I'm cutting out some.

Maybe I'm, maybe one day would do the rest of the ones that I wanted to get to. because I wanted to ask you about your tour brush joke about Larry Flint, but I don't think I got time. I mean, I got the time. If you got the time, I'll tell the joke. You parked up. Okay, so you started a TMZ as a tour guide.

And first of all, tell folks what the tour guide does, but also want you to tell me about a time that your tour bus joke about Larry Frank as a civil rights hero absolutely bombed. You said it bombed about like 5% of the time. There has to have been a time that it bombed. Oh, I'll tell you a time that it bombed. I remember it very clearly. Okay.

So the tour bus, the TNZ tour was the way I got on at TMZ. I, you know, I didn't come from a journalism background or anything like that. Like the TNZ tour was, they call it a Celebrity Safari. You go around and you tell people about things that happened on the TMZ tour, or not TMDTT or not TMD tour, in L.A. This is where Josh Hartn had diarrhea. That was actually a stop on the tour. Chat to my mom.

Are you serious? He had diarrhea. He called 911. And we would play. We would stop in front of the Chateau. And we would, we would call, we would play his 911 one tape.

He had 911. He had diarrhea. That's crazy. You know, Brad Pitt used to be the bird at the El Poyal loco on Sunsend and, and,

and, um, and LeBray, whatever. Oh, that's it. But I had a joke. I would make up my own parts of the tour. So I had a joke, uh,

where we would pass, asked about a hustler store, and I would tell the people on the tour bus why Larry Flint was one of the most important civil rights leaders of our time. And they would be like, oh my God, they wanted to hear that. They thought that maybe Larry Flint had, you know, donated money to the United Negro College Fund or something like that. I was like, no, you know, Larry Flynn, of course, you guys know he's in a wheelchair, right? You know, yeah. And I'm like, well, Larry Flint is rumored that he was shot because of interracial photo spreads that appeared in Hustler magazine. People go, oh, no.

And then I go, so Larry Flynn is an important civil rights leader because he took a bullet for my ability to sleep with white women. And 95% of the time, the bus would lose it. depending on the crowd, I would say fuck white women if I thought I had a good crowd. Remember, I'm on a mic so people are driving by the bus like, oh, the TMZ tour guys cursing the people out. But one time, there was a sister. And she was not fucking having that.

Oh, you want to sleep with white women? Oh, you want to sleep. You must be from L.A. We're not from L.A. we're not from here. So we're not used to the black men that hate black women. I'm like,

sister, it's a joke. I really not. I love you. You're beautiful. Like, I'm like, it's a joke. It's like, it's a joke. So, okay, so it's a joke. So you've never slept with a white woman before?

I didn't say that. Okay. I don't say that. Like, what I said was, it's a joke. It's a joke. Got off the bus. Went to tell the Starline people that I was promoting

like that I was degrading black women on the tour. And so, you know, and so if I saw a crowd, and that's when you do the kind of thing, if I saw a crowd that was a little too sister heavy, I might put it in my back pockets. I don't want to antagonize it. I love that. Okay.

What was it like working at TMZ? And like what's the number one thing you learned from working there? Because I think people are just like really curious about it is a journalism enterprise, right? I mean, yeah, it's a journalism enterprise. there was a time where TMZ, I'm not as, you know, versus as far as what they're doing right now,

but there was a time with TMZ, in my opinion, was doing some of the most important investigative journalism in the business. I mean, there were just gigantic stories that were being broken, and not all of the stories that were being broken were as easy to break as people think they were.

There was a lot of journalism and a lot of work that went into it. The one thing that I learned from TMZ more than anything is the intensity in which you have to seek information. I learned about, you know, cultural patterns and what people care about in terms of like when you're talking and how you're talking.

But the thing I learned more directly is just how intense you have to be about your endeavor into something to make it work. Because for all of, you know, the opinions that people have about Harvey, he would work you under the tape. He was the hardest, working person I've ever seen. Wow. I mean, we're talking about a 65,

64 year old guy that was up at four or five in the morning swimming, beating you to the office. You're getting to the office at 6 a.m. He's there already at 5.15 at 3 or 4 stories up. He's leaving after you. He's still maintaining all of his virility and all of that stuff. And like he's always trying to squeeze more out of the day. He's always trying, okay, well, I want this type of iPads. So it can be connected to the internet wherever I go. So whenever something happens, I can write it right away. I just always want to be a step away from being able to get a story up or make a call about it.

That's not particularly the way I would want to live my life. But there are times when you have to tap into that little bit of extra juice and you will certainly have that and certainly understand what you're not entitled to by working at TMZ. what you're not entitled to by working at TMZ. Say more about that. What are you not entitled to? I had to be dope at everything I did. I had to be dope on the tour bus. I couldn't go and ask anybody.

I've never asked anyone for a raise in my life. Because I've never been like, okay, I think I need more money. Because what you have to do there, at least, was you had to execute at what you were doing. You had to go be the best guy, and then they give it to you. You'd have to be great on the show, and then they give it to you.

You'd have to be great. as a producer and then they give it to you. But you had to show them first. You couldn't ask for a break or ask for a chance or talk to them about what you felt like you deserved or what you were going to. You had to do it. And then after you did it, spoils would come.

So, you know, just that over the course of my entire career is like TMZ would teach you to put the thing first. So whenever somebody asked me about, for advice on things. It's like, oh, you know, I want to start a podcast. How do I go out and get asked? Forget about that. Put the podcast first.

Put everything and all of you into what it is that you're doing and try to be the best at it and try to be dedicated and good at it. Put that thing first. And if you do that and you can learn how to fill in the gap somewhere, everything else will come. And that notion is dying. I mean, so many people now that are trying to put the car before the horse.

Everybody wants to do everything now, right? Right. Okay. Also, one more thing I'll say about TMZ, it was a gladiator pit. Hmm. So you couldn't be... Competition, correct?

Right, for airtime, for all that, right? Just about... It was competition for airtime and stuff. I never really had to deal with that too much. But you just... You have to... had to learn how to compartmentalize your feelings. Because it was some talk happening in that place.

It was some things you saw happening in that place. Like they had one guy, TMZ, had everybody sex tape on his computer. So you might see that. What? You know what I mean? So, you know what I'm saying? Sex tapes.

They have people's sex tapes. Wait, who's sex tapes? Like all the celebrities are every, like? Well, if, if, if, well, so like, tell you how it works, if you say that you have a sex tape of somebody that you want to sell,

TMZ is not going to put the sex tape up, right? They don't put the sex tape on a website, but the story that would be done on the sex tape would be like that somebody has it. So I'll give you an example. A celebrity, Jonas Washington is the celebrity. Jonas Washington has a sex tape out. Somebody hits the tip line and says,

hey, there's a sex tape with Jonas Washington on it. Well, the first thing I go, as the producer, is I go, okay, cool, I got to see it to make sure that it's him. Now, I can't do anything with that sex tape because we're not putting down on the website.

We're not putting down on the TV show. The story is not that, it's not the tape itself. It's the fact that the tape exists. Somebody's trying to shop a sex tape of ex-celebrity, right? But I have to see it to verify that it's actually the celebrity. Now, in the old days, maybe, you know, there was a guy and in-between guy.

Nice guy, actually. There was an in-between guy that you would contact, and then he might contact Steve Hirsch and Vivid. And there actually might be a deal that's made for the sex tape. But remember, the person in it has to sign off on it. You've never seen the sex tape on Vivid or one of those places where the person didn't sign off on it being or going there. Wow. So they never, so if a sex tape was released by. company, like the people are in on it, whoever is in it.

Okay. But there's something else that happens around that. The tape exists at TMZ. They have it. So every time a story like that happens, every time somebody tries to quote unquote sell a piece of video, whatever that video is to TMZ or any other place, they have to send the video so that it can be very,

that it's actually the person. So then it exists forever at TMZ. Wow. So people that we've, like really big celebrities that you guys know about, other big celebrities that you don't know about, that you wouldn't think would have stuff like that, they're there. Damn, man. What?

I mean, you know what I'm saying? I don't know. I guess I'm not, I'm not being naive. I'm just like, wow. I mean, it's just floating around out there. You know what I mean? Yeah, floating around. I mean, and just other videos too, like videos of like,

just anything of people that are in, that are doing stuff and say, hey, I want to sell this. Hey, let me look at it. I can't quite make out who the person is, but they still have it. Now, look, I will say this. There are all kinds of like, uh, um, all kinds of people that say they use those tapes to blackmail people and do it. I've never seen anything like that. Never.

I can't remember ever hearing a conversation like that at all, but we will watch them. Or they would watch them. I never had anything on my computer. But they would play them. But I've never seen where anyone was like

was ever like blackmailed or, hey, do this for us or come to this for us or we're going to do this or even spread it around or go tell people that we have this on this person. I've never seen anybody there do that. I've never seen that happen. But you know, like, you would see them.

Man. That's crazy. That's great. What, man, all right. All right. Well, look, I'm going to annoy you real quick. Sure. Okay.

I'm sorry that I'm doing this. You're going to ask about the Kanye Westing. CMZ Live, 2018. Let me play a clip for you this. more for our audience than it is for you. And frankly, I'm disappointed. I'm appalled. And, brother, I am unbelievably hurt by the fact that you have morphed into something to me

that's not real. That's the way I feel. Stand on all the coffee tables you want to stand on. Say whatever you want to say, but don't throw a stone then hide your hand like the rest of us are just going to swallow it. Yay, be yay. I'm off it. ever do you. But remember, the life that I live is as a real person, an actual person.

What was your life like in the days after that confrontation? And I'm going to, because there's a, because I want to know how your life changed, but there's a couple of things I ask you this reason. So I can only imagine you've heard from all kinds of people. And I'm going to come, I'm going to circle back to that depending on how you answer this. And too, honestly, part of the reason I asked this is there was this like, kind of cute. Hollywood actress Chloe Bennett, who posted on Instagram about how sexy you were at that moment. And I was like, damn, man. They're probably out there getting it done out there at L.A. after this shit, man.

So just walk me through your life from that moment and you walk off, you know, you walk, it airs and then what happens? I, it airs, well, it's live, so it's happening while people can see it. then I get a little flustered and I go for a walk. And then after I go for that walk, I turn my phone off because the first thing that happened was, you know, Kanye had said some other things and they had took some things out of the show

they were trying to figure out what they were going to do. And I go for a walk and when I turn my phone back on, everything was just going crazy. And the initial response was from the other people that worked in the office that were like hitting us up and going, hey, this is what, I'm so glad that you hit me up saying, I'm glad that you said this, I'm glad that you did this, I'm glad that you came like this, I'm glad that you come, you know, I'm glad that this happened or whatever.

And I really appreciated how the coworkers in the room responded to it. and then when I came back I saw that like people that and you know people that you wouldn't even think were paying attention to it were like putting it up and saying all kinds of stuff

and tagging you and then after that it was kind of like that was the moment where you were kind of on like you were people were trying to pay attention to what you were saying and stuff but I think they had more to do with Kanye

than it did obviously had more to do with Kanye than it did with me I think there were a lot of people who were frustrated with with how he was behaving. And so they were just tired of seeing people kind of take it. Yeah. You know, I don't, in that moment, I felt like had I not said something,

it would have been, I'd have been just basically adding to it. Were you scared at all? No. Really? Okay. Okay. Not at all. Really?

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Not even in the least bit. I'm asking you this because you posted some, I can't remember what you posted on Instagram. And Rihanna was in your comments, Doug. And I was just like, yo, is anybody going to comment on the fact that Rihanna's talking to Vann?

Like, he's just a regular motherfucker. And you were like, oh, yeah, Rihanna reached out. So, like, how crazy did it get in terms of, like, the people that reached out to you? Like, does it get any more famous than Rihanna? probably but I mean or around that same thing yeah

but like that like I mean bro it that had to do more with people that were in his orbit

that were I'm not gonna speak for her but people that were in his orbit that were disappointed like I had a lot of conversations with people

that were like and I didn't think I would ever be talking to that were like scared of him or not maybe even scared of him but that had so much reverence for him that they didn't know how to really approach the situation you know

but that's why I see why if you were scared man yeah but I mean he can't do nothing for me I ain't a rapper you know what I'm saying like you know what I'm saying like it's like look I get why there Kanye West has a ice-encrusted swastika

that he's wearing around his neck, right? An ice-encrusted swastika. And there are still going to be people lined up in the music industry and in the other industries to work for him because they need him. They need him. He is an economic and creative engine

that they aspire to be. So they need him. him. So, or maybe they don't give a fuck. But I don't need them. Like, in had, I didn't think twice about saying anything like that. I don't, I don't think that about anyone. Like, if, if shit goes bad here and I end up fucked up, I'm gonna be all right. There'll be another spot. Like, things will be okay. I'm enjoying my time here. I think this is probably the best place that I've ever worked. Yeah. In terms of people who understand you and know how to utilize. your talent and who believe in you

and who stick by you thinks it's probably the best place I've ever worked but there'll always be more God promises abundance you hope that's your last time you have to talk about Kanye nah I don't care it's part of me it would be like that would be like

asking it is it's a part of me like that moment was my that was me being drafted it. It was a part of me. I love that. I love that.

I got a lightning around for you. Got me. Go. Okay. If you were trying to teach people about your Baton Rouge, what piece of media? It could be music, book, whatever. What would you recommend? Thugging it and loving it.

It's a DVD series that came out from Baton Rouge back in the day. It's not exactly. my Baton Rouge, right? My Baton Rouge might be more, but it's, to me, thugging it and loving it is the Baton Rouge that when I go back and go, oh, man, I know what in places at. I watch thugging it and loving it. It's two versions. Thugging it and loving it one. And I think it's Thugging it and loving it. It was like a documentary series around Baton Rouge. Go see if you can find it on YouTube. Thuging it and loving it. I might need to tap in on that. I don't think I've ever see. I've not heard of that one.

Okay, you talk about your hoop game a lot. So who would you compare your hoop game to? Kevin Love. Really? You good with the outlet, huh? Yeah, Kevin Love. It was, so, but, you know, it depends on where I was playing. But if I'm playing in a league with a lot of good players, then I was inside, outside, threes, uh, screens, I was Kevin Love.

But if I'm playing someplace where I can handle the ball, when I have to handle the ball and have to do all of that stuff, you know, it might be a little different. But I remember I was playing in the LACC, the L-A-A-C, should I say. And I was playing against this one guy. And I was, come on, man, stop K-loving us, bro. But so Kevin Love, I would say. Why don't you have a Wikipedia page?

I have no clue. I don't know what you do to get one. I don't know how you do it. Really? Okay. I don't know why you, I don't know what you do. I don't know what you do. I don't know how you get it.

A lot of people do their own is my understanding. I'm not doing that. Okay. You wouldn't be important enough for somebody, go ahead and do it for you. If I'm getting important, if I get important enough to where somebody wants to make a Wikipedia page out of me,

then they could do that, but I'm not doing that. It's someone who lived in the architect for two and a half years. Why Louisiana Tech? Oh, man. I love Streetport. I love Bojian. You know what I'm saying?

A girl. Oh, okay. That explains it. A girl. Paulette. Paulette, Paulette, Paulette, Paulette Gray, a girl. Track girl. Track star, Paulette Gray.

Track star, Paulette Gray. Paulette Gray. Paulette Gray and my best friend Ryan Davenport, we all went to Louisiana Tech together, a girl. And then that ended and I came back home. How did it feel the graduate way from Southern instead? Like, were you always, like, did you have family that have gone to Southern? My dad.

Okay, your dad was basically. Being back on the Y'all was being back home. Yeah. So being back on the yard was being back home. But like, went up to tech for a little while. The time of tech was fun, though. Because that was as far away from home as you could be without really being away from home. So you're like three and a half hours.

You're not going to walk up and see your people up there. They're not going to show up uninvited. You're far enough away from them to where you got your kind of own thing. So we felt like little adults up there. Remember it was 18, 19 years old. So, like, tech was fun. for us being in there. Had my own private room.

Shout out to Carruthers. Private dorms up in tech. Had my private room. Me and her was shacked up. It was a whole night. It was a very, very precious time. Happily married woman now and all of that stuff like that. Shout out to Paulette and her mom, Renee.

But that was fun for the time that we was up there. Best athlete to come out of Baton Rouge. Shit. When you say best, you mean just like best who had the most success or just best. Actually, I want both of the answers now. If you got a different one. So,

the best athlete I've ever seen in Baton Rouge was a guy named Lester Earl. Okay. Who played for Glen Oaks from, I think, 92 to 96. Then he went to LSU for a little while. And then

I think he ended up at Kansas. His son plays for the Pelicans now. So that's the best. You just look at guys who was just straight dominating. That's the best guy I ever saw right out of the city. The guy that maybe had the most success. Now you're going to look, and I'm trying to think, now you're going to look at like a Marcus Spears,

who's right there from Southern Lab, Michael Clayton, who comes from Christian Life, then goes to LSU, and then goes to, to the bucks, right? To the bucks to Tampa Bay and then to the Giants. I have to think about

the most successful athlete. Oh, Ode Beckham Jr. was born in Baton Rouge, although I'm pretty sure that he was reared in New Orleans, that he went down to New Orleans and he came back to LSU. But I'd have to think about that as far as the guy who just had

the straight up best career coming straight out of Baton Rouge. But the best athlete I've seen just when I was there, it wasn't a fuck. and Winless to Earl. Glen Oaks and Tony Cole and all of those guys, they were crazy.

Favorite LSU athlete? Honey Badger. For some reason, I knew you were going to say that. Yeah. It was just crazy. It was just, he was the most fun player I've ever watched the LSU. He's crazy.

He was the most, it was, he was like psychic. He, like, it was. It was like he had magnets in his hands. Yeah, it didn't make any sense. He was psychic. when he was, before he even got seven, that other year was actually probably better. He was, he was, it was nuts.

And his awareness on the field was insane. We just dip in and out of spots on punt return. We'd get right to the ball. Bring him off the edge. The whole nine, versatile, like intense, just was so much fun watching him. I am so sick that team didn't win a national championship, but was so much fun watching him,

but that would have to be my favorite player. LSU athlete you didn't particularly, like, rooting for? Ben Simmons. Ooh, man, LSU, you know what? I know a lot of LSU fans, and I feel like that's almost universal. Like, they were predicting he would fail in the NBA before he got to the NBA. Yeah, Ben Simmons.

Ben Simmons. Like, you would watch Ben, Simmons when he was playing at LSU. And I remember watching the game. I'll bring this about me. How many times I said it's a guy stop to beat myself. It's a game between LSU and Oklahoma. And Ben Simmons was averaging like a quiet 20 and 9, 20 and 10 for LSU.

But Buddy Hill was on the floor. And when I was looking at the game, I was like, and I wish we had buddy. It's just like, you. were watching the game and Ben Simmons was the consensus number one player who was putting up good numbers at LSU and you just never felt like you were going to win because you had Ben Simmons. It just didn't feel like that. So easily the guy that they were like, oh my God, you're supposed to be so excited about that you were just kind of like, eh, it was easily Ben Simpson.

I can't think of another LSU athlete that was really good that was hard for me to root for. But Ben Simmons is an easy one. Be honest. Who wins between 2019 LSU and 2020 Alabama? LSU does. Come on, man. It's not a particularly close game. Come on, bro.

It's not a particularly close game. LSU wins. Be serious. Come on. Easy. It's not a close game. Like, we win, and we win by 10. We win by 10.

Okay. They're not, that, that, bro, I'm telling you now, that, that, that team is not fucking with us. 2020 Alabama is good That team is not fucking with us We're more bowel tested We played more games We had more

Because you're talking about that 2020 2020 season right That 2020 season was what A 10 game season Yeah but I mean It was an all SEC schedule So what? We went on the road and beat Texas

I mean that wasn't a great Texas team Whatever we had to play them in Austin So it That like it The TCU is a TCU alum Whoop de damn dude All I'm saying is this.

I'm saying they played less games, LSU had to prove it over more games, run the gamut of the SEC schedule, then come back. And by the way, no one was close to us the way we were dominating some of these next level teams. So, Alba, look, that's a great team,

but nah, we've beaten them. I will say it was the first time I ever felt sorry for Clemson in the game. Yeah, we put it on that ass, Baptist Church. put it on that ass Baptist Church Clemson Who do you love that you probably shouldn't? Oh man

Who do I love that I probably shouldn't? This is a This is a tough I'm trying to think If it's Arkelly You can go ahead and say it It's not Arkelly

Okay It's not Arkelly Who do I love that I probably shouldn't? You know, the tough thing is Once people get on the bullshit it's pretty easy for me to kind of like not fuck with them too much. Who do I love that I probably should not love? I don't think there's somebody.

I wish there was somebody that like I could be like, man, like is, I'm not that that attached to any. The problem is it would have to be an athlete, right? So it would have to be an athlete because people in entertainment and stuff like that, like musicians and actors and all of that stuff, I don't really have that type of allegiance to them. You know what it probably is? It's probably Bill Clinton. Ooh, wow.

It's probably Bill Clinton. If I was thinking about it, most likely it's probably Bill Clinton. That is a really good answer. And a surprising one. It's probably Bill Clinton. I still have, from the time that I was born and all of that stuff, just I still see Bill Clinton. I'm like, look at old Bill right there. Look at old Bill. And we all

know that Bill been involved in some nasty shit. Bill got some nasty ass white man. So if I think about it, it's probably Bill Clinton. Where do you think you should have actually ranked on that complex list? You were number 21. I shouldn't have been on it.

Really? No, hell no. I shouldn't have been on it. I mean, this is a lightning round, so I'm going to accept that. I might ask you to elaborate on that at some point. Yeah, shouldn't have been on it. Not at all. Is it because just not hip hop?

Like, that's like you're not hip hop. Yeah, I mean, those guys love hip hop. I listen to hip hop. I'm a huge hip hop fan. And so we talk about it on a podcast, but in no way, shape, or form. By the way, I appreciate complex for that because I think they put me on there because I represented a different perspective on the whole thing. But no. Like, I don't belong.

that list with those guys who've dedicated their life to hip hop. You ever, the most, the, to me, the most interesting and the most interesting niggas in the world are niggas that be like, nigger, I'll die for hip hop. I'd be like, really? You'll die for hip hop? It's like, yeah, this, Nick, hip hop means everything to me. I am hip hop. Hip, I'm like, for real.

It's real. So, so, so somebody. came up to you right now with either there's hip hop tomorrow, either there's no hip hop tomorrow, or there's no you tomorrow. Like, you're going to be like,

kill me so that hip hop can live on. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, I'm going to be, I'm going to be sound bombing too. Yeah, it's like, you're going to be like, nah, I'm kill me. Hip hop must survive. I'm like, for real.

You'll die for hip hop. So, but a lot of those guys on that list they'll die for hip hop and so I'm not a die for hip hop type nigga I like to listen to rap music some of them certainly are flirting with death right

I'm setting you up on this one okay cool who needs some dick in their life who needs some dick in their life it's a sad answer there's piggybacking on an answer before Hillary Clinton oh I did not think man

you surprised me okay all right But damn, okay. Like Hillary Clinton, man. Hillary Clinton needed a young dude, bro. I did not see that coming. Hillary Clinton has done so much, you know, she's, she don't put so many black men in jail. She's done so much in her career.

She didn't win, you know, the crime bill, all kinds of other stuff, maybe a little bit too much. But for Hillary Clinton, she deserves right now, like a little Timothy Shalame to come into her life like a little she can have like a little sex servant like a, like a,

like, because Bill, think about what Bill's been into. Oh man. Bill been all on the jet flying around just doing nasty, disgusting, terrible things. Bill, Bill, Bill, been with all, Bill looks at women. If you ever been in the same room

with President Clinton, Bill will look at a woman and then stick his tongue out of his mouth. I'm talking about like nasty. Like, Bill, like, it's, like, nasty. He'll stick his tongue out of his mouth. Like, that one movie where the guy was eating the candy

and he's being nasty towards the woman, that's Bill Clinton. How's he doing? And so Hillary just deserves for the rest of her life to kind of get it in a little bit, you know? Man, you're shocked. All right, I got two more. Okay.

Where would you live, if not L.A.? I got another answer. that's going to shock people, by the way. Oh, okay. About the dick in your life thing. Oh, okay. No, go for it. Yeah, please.

I wouldn't be answering this truthfully if I didn't say this. Crystal Ellis. Oh, wow. Wow. I mean, I don't, do you want me to say who that is? Do you want to tell me? That's, that's Van's mom. Yeah.

Oh, man. it's my mom. I hope she listens to this because what I want more than anything for my mom who was a loyal and faithful wife to my dad for years. What I want more than anything for my mom

is I want like a Jamaican guy. Oh, you know what I mean? That like is into different essential oils and all of that stuff. I don't know what's wrong with y'all where y'all don't see y'all parents as fool people. I want my mom to have a, like a full, as a matter of fact, forget about Hillary Clinton. Edit that out. Like,

it is, I want my mom to have a full experience of life. Yeah. My mother is beautiful and she's vivacious and she's all of those things. I want my mom to have like somebody young too, like 34 at the oldest with stamina and a strong back, you know, like to really, my mom deserves it. Like, I don't, what I don't understand like Mike Tyson. Like you said, like Mike Tyson. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like when they were at that prime. Like somebody like that. Like my mom deserves

it, man. My mom has done so much to where for me and for so many others to where she deserves right now for some man to cater to her in that way. I would say my mother. That, I mean, what an evolved bizarre answer. I don't have any I don't have any

any shame I want my parents to enjoy themselves well my mom dad's enjoyment days are over um where would you live

if not L.A. Baton Rouge I love Baton Rouge man I love Baton Rouge I'm glad you do it needs love it does you're right

it does need love I love Banrooge man as long as you got your gun you're straight got to have your gun now all right So you got to have to, you can't walk away. It can't be, as the youngsters, quote unquote, say lacking in Baton Rouge.

As long as you got your gun, you're straight, right? But you got your gun in Baton Rouge, you're good. As long as you got your gun, you're straight. But I would say Baton Rouge. I love Baton Rouge. I love being home. I love being around there. I love the people.

I love the culture. I love where I'm from. I'm not one of those guys. So if I wasn't in LA, there's so many other places that I love, like I love to visit Miami, all and stuff like that. But the only place I could see, like, living would be Baton Rouge. That man stuck the landing. I'm Joel Anderson.

That was the great, great Van Lathen Van. Thank you, bro. This was everything that I thought was going to be in this song. So I'm talking about Press Box podcast coming at your motherfucking ass, bro. We're taking over two brothers on the ringer, Van and Joe, throwing up big gang signs. people smacking people the whole shit. We got our new podcast coming out.

Call Fuck These Niggas. It'll be on all platforms pretty soon. So shout out, be on the lookout for that. Boom, boom. Sean Finacy, CR, what's up? Let's somebody to know, no. You know what I'm saying? Let's somebody don't know.

Production Magic by the man, Brian Waters. For Monday, we're going to drop our latest episode in our ongoing 25 for 25 series. This one is all about the publications we've lost in this century. It's a pretty long one. So maybe clear your schedule that day. and I'll be back next Thursday with another surprise guest. Actually, guest. Thank y'all and we'll catch you on next Thursday.