The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Abbott Elementary’ Season 3 Finale: It Finally Happened!

Episode Date: May 23, 2024

Charles Holmes and Logan Murdock go back to school and recap ‘Abbott Elementary’ Season 3. They start by debating whether or not the ABC sitcom should be considered “prestige,” before outlining a broad overview of Season 3 as a whole and its familiar—yet effective—storytelling structure (1:47). Along the way, they discuss the impact of a condensed season and why the love triangle between Janine, Gregory, and Manny suffered because of it (10:05). Later, they break down why the finale was such a satisfying conclusion, MVPs of the season, and potential concerns about Season 4 and beyond (15:53). Hosts: Charles Holmes and Logan Murdock Producer: Kai Grady Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And you better be watching We're the Millers. I'm Charles Holmes of Midnight Boys. Beep-bue! He's Logan Murdoch of Real One's fame. And together we're here to discuss Abbott Elementary Season 3, which aired its finale on Wednesday. Logan, long time coming. How are you doing, my man?

We're here. We're not officially the back outside boys because sales cadded and didn't want to be on this episode with us and didn't even want to be on the Zoom call. That's crazy. You don't even love those number one. I feel like Drake and 21 and Yadi were the back outside boys and his two light skin men.

I don't know if we want to attach our wagon to that very controversial trait. That's true. That's true. I'm here to spread the gospel of Baby Kim. So, you know, honestly, let's go. Let's get it done. Logan, I've been bumping baby Kim. Like, scrappy do of B.G. Lang in the gym. Baby Kim, I was wrong. But anyway, we're not here to talk about Baby Keem. We're here to talk about Abbott Elementary. And before we kind of get into the show, you know what people always do on Prestige, I think? And it's obviously because it's in

the name, Prestige TV. It's like, what's prestige, what is not? And at this I just think the TV landscape is so weird, but I did want to kind of discuss why we chose Abbott, because I think Abbott obviously ran away with the Emmys last year, one of the most popular shows, one of the most watch shows on network television. It's not in any way what we think of when we think of prestige TV. But I do think Abbott Elementary is interesting, Logan, because it's one of the rare shows that feels like a TV show in a real way. We're, structurally, joke-wise, it gives you everything that you want, characters that you want to spend a lot of time with.

And with most modern television shows, I'm just like, I don't give a fuck about these characters. It's not that funny. Like, I want to shut it off after one episode. So while Abbott Elementary is not necessarily ever going to be in the prestige lexicon, to me, it's the rare show that is just operating so efficiently and effectively and doing something that most showrunners just seem incapable. of 2024, but why did you think, like, hey, we need to spend some time talking about Abbott Elementary?

Well, first of all, it should be prestige TV. I don't know who makes the rules here. Well, it's not, whoa, it's not madmen. It's not trying to be madmen. It's not trying to be sopranos. It's of a different lineage. So I get why people would be like, it's not a prestige TV show because it's technically, it's not. Whatever. I mean, it's something, anything that saves like the network sitcom genre is pretty pretty, pretty much. prestigious to me. That's the first point. But I think that the reason that this has been able to get into the zeitgeist, if you will, is because it is a show centered around people that, like, you would love to get to know and that you would love to just be a part of the crew. You feel like you're invited into their world. And a lot of it has to do with the mockumentary style that they use, right? Where they're consistently looking at the camera. Even, I know we're going to get into it in the rest of this episode. But even at the finish of the last finale, it was Janine and Gregory looking at the camera like,

yeah, we're finally doing what you want us to do, right? Even something like that, right? Where you see that. And also, the series is built around a school and an underfunded school, which is something that a lot of Americans can definitely relate to. You know, I think about this as like a kid of a school teacher and seeing my sister going through that as well, like going through, the public school system and what that means.

And I think that it's a very relatable show. And I think that it is a show that is, that really resonates with a lot of people because they feel like they're a part of it. And that's the, I think we got away from that genre in a lot of ways or that style of sitcom where, that's the same reason why the office,

which is a distant cousin of this show, was successful because you felt like you were part of the office with a lot of people. Like, you just felt like we were a part of it. And I think that that's what this, that's what this show really does and is continuing to do. And I think that that's what makes it special.

And that's why it makes it prestige, ladies and gentlemen. It's not prestige. It's not. We're going to talk about it because like, A, it deserves to be talked about. It's better than most of the shows that we team prestige. But it's technically it's not. We're already getting into it.

All right. So before we get into spoilers and everything, you kind of already did. But I want to talk to you about kind of like maybe the broad overview of season three because it follows the, trajectory that I think at this point, just in culture, that we're so familiar with, where it's like first season for most sitcoms, especially if it's a workplace sitcom, whether it's cheers or

the office or this or that. To your point, you're getting introduced to characters. These are characters that hopefully if the show is doing a good job, you either want to A, hang out with more or B, you are connected to enough where you're just like, this is a type of world and this is a type of, These are the type of relationships that I want to be in. The second season is almost, a lot of times why the second season is, in my opinion, the most successful for sitcoms is because the first season is difficult because it's trying to convince you to like these people or at least care and invest in them. The second season is where you really get the alchemy, where it's like characters that have never really spoken before. Oh, we're going to dive into their relationship. Oh, there's inside jokes.

there's a bunch of stuff we're no longer having to explain. It's like we're free reign, we get, this is the most probably in the second season, how experimental you're going to get. And that's usually when if the will, they won't they of the first season is teased. The second season is when it's like, oh shit, are they going to do it,

reveal their feelings? And then by the third season, in most classic workplace sitcoms, all this stuff, you get the, the characters finally get what they want. And spoiler alert, In the end of this episode, the finale, Janine Gregory, finally kiss, finally happens.

What I want to know from you, Logan, is that type of structure for you still satisfying? Because it's like I almost like, this whole season I knew where it was going. And I was just like, part of me, because we talk about Abbott Elementary and deservedly so,

as just being so great and just such a breath of fresh air, I did get the sense throughout this entire season where I'm like, they're not really bucking any trends. They're just really doing what we know a sitcom can do very, very well. There were very rare moments in the season where I felt like surprised. I always felt like I was laughing. I got what I wanted.

But I was like, oh, this might just settle into just always being a traditional sitcom. And I don't think that there's anything wrong with that necessarily, right? Like, and I think that, you know, especially in TV and the rise of streaming. And this is just anecdotally, right? Like you are somebody that has, that is way more into this than I am. But just watching sitcoms or watching series in general, like with the rise of streaming and with the rise of just all of these places where you can get content, you've seen people try really, really hard to transform whatever TV is, whatever movies are, whatever content is in general. Like Atlanta is a perfect. example where Atlanta is a

sitcom if you like sit down in terms of like there's four people for friends but it is not to your point it is trying to do it's trying to recreate the medium not do what we know TV does right and I think there was an exhaustion of that or at least in my view like I was as exhausted

with like just the the avant-garde level of television that we were trying to achieve for whatever reason right and it was honestly a breadth of it is and was an honestly a breath of fresh air to see an Abbott elementary to where it's like, oh, I can just let my hair down and watch my homies as opposed to is, uh, Earn going to be going to go see like, like, is he, where is he

going to go? Or even in something like insecure. By the end of it, it was just like, it was so emotionally taxing some episodes. I needed a little light. I needed it to be a little lighter. And I think Abbott has been really great for that, right? Like, and I think, you know, a character like Ava makes it that great, right? Where it's not take, the show isn't taking itself too, too seriously. And I think that we got into a bag for the last decade or so where a lot of these shows took themselves really seriously. And I understand why, right?

Because of the influence before this generation was the Sopranos, was Oz, was all these types of big-time HBO-type shows. And people were influenced and wanted to make their own version of that. And as a consequence, I feel like we've gotten two in the artsy bag where it's like, hey, man, sometimes you just want to chill and watch a good 30 minutes of television. I think that's what Avid provides. And that's why I'm okay with knowing what the end is going to be

because I'm here to just see my homies every week. This was a shortened season because we had the double whammy last summer of the actor strike, writer's strike. So season one, 13 episodes, season 2, 22. Season 3 was also supposed to be 22, but we ended up only getting 14 because of the strikes. Did that affect how you kind of watch the show or just the show in any way

because I was realizing this is a classic season three where you take one of the protagonists, like we brought up the office. The office is very famous for this. Like it's like this happens in almost, in so many sitcoms where Jim goes to another office, him and Pam don't work out.

You get, you meet all of these new characters and you see that this world that you, in season one, season two, in season three, you realize this world is completely bigger. There's new characters.

were introducing all this. And I think with season three, I really enjoyed season three of Abbott. I was like, I could tell that this was a shortened season because it was like almost immediately, Janine has accepted a job. She's at the district.

She's at the Philadelphia School District. She has this kind of new will-they-won-they with Mani, played by John Segarra. If you don't know him, he's one of my favorite characters on another show, the other two. Kegan Michael Key. It plays her boss now.

He was great. But here's the thing. I was being like, I think season three would have been more successful for me overall if it was 22 episodes. Because it, like, this season moved. Like, I think how long was Janine at the district? It felt like she was at the district for maybe like almost like six, seven episodes, maybe like half the season.

And then it's like, oh, she's just back at Abbott. And I was like, if you had 12. 22 episodes that, same thing with the Love Triangle, with Manny, Gregory, Janine. I never could really invest in Manny that much. I didn't like Manny. You didn't like Manny. I was not a fan of Manny. I didn't like the way the character was done.

I didn't like how, I mean, I'm sure you love the actor. I didn't really like the actor. I didn't like the way he acted in this one. It was just too much. Janine, hi, just very like over-enunciating a lot of his words in a way. No, you're a song. He was good. He sounded.

he sounded really disingenuous. It wasn't like, I felt like he was a snake. Like, I didn't like it. A snake? What did he do? Why was the... I just didn't like, I didn't like the cut of his jib. Honestly.

You didn't like his beard? I didn't like the cut of his jib, sir. Oh, you didn't watch it because Gregory was like, damn, that white man has a beard. And I'm like, Gregory, you are going out so fucking sad right now. Oh, we'll get to, we'll get to Gregory because I didn't like him and spurts in this season either. But I didn't like, I didn't like the manny character because I just did, I just, he came off as very snakeish, right? and just like in a lot of different ways. I didn't think that he was a lovable person.

I am a hate. Wait, first of all, you're one to talk, Charles. That's number one. Number two, to the point of what the season could have been had it been stretched out to the normal, you know, 22 to 24 episode arc. Like, you did miss out because there were some trinkets of information that, like, we didn't get, right? Like, there was like a hint that Manny knew Janine for a long stretch of time, right? like there was there were some other things

that could have been stretched out they did the best they can with 14 episodes but like there was stuff that I really wanted to go through the ebbs and flows of the last episode we got where by and large

like Janine and Gregory were just going out sad but towards the end of the last episode when one of Gregory's friends their mutual friends was like no she didn't mannie tried but like she wanted you

we didn't really know like, what did he try? Did he step to Janine? Did he try to actually do anything? All we got was a text message, right? We didn't really know the full extent of why they, you know, had the ebbs and flows. But there was clear that there was a connection with Janine and Mani that just wasn't fruitful. And I wish that we could have gotten more of that.

I hope that in season four, if I was in the writer's room, I would take advantage of the large season and just do a lot of flashbacks. to like kind of get us back today. No, flashbacks suck. No, Logan. Get the fuck. We're not doing flashbacks in 2024, Logan. Get out of here. Why? See, that's the thing with you, man. You always go with the, you always go with the, I want to go with the algorithm. No, we're not going with the algorithm. It's just like, I'm not doing flashbacks. It's like, we got to be real. This also happens with every long running sitcom where there's always a season where it's like someone got pregnant. There was a strike. So it's like,

this is not the first heroes obviously uh friday night lights this has happened before where there have been short in seasons but to your point i want to talk about the love triangle of this all a little bit more because i think you're absolutely right where for a character like manny to work you do need episodes where we're just learning what manny's deal is in the same way when like gregory's going out sad that's why i didn't like that's why i didn't like man i didn't know what the fuck his deal was i didn't know what his but same thing with the emt like there was that episode where it's like Janine is like jealous or she knows that like Gregory was out on a date with this EMT and she shows up in the finale. But it's like we never spent enough time with that character or Gregory as a single man pining after Janine for this all not to feel like, oh, once they finally get together, I was like there weren't that many obstacles in their way.

Like Mani never really had a shot. I never felt like, oh, like Mani's really like applying pressure. Many was friend zoned for show. So I think we are both in agreement that the love triangle just because of the condensed season was a little rush. But let's get into the finale because I actually thought that this was a successful finale in terms of like I laughed. I think Janine throwing a party. I'm like, oh God, this is going to be shenanigans. Also, how big is her house, bro?

Like she said it was three and some feet and then they added a whole other ass room that just didn't exist. All right. First of all, we've been to Janine's apartment before. in this show. To your point, I was like, it was not this. Last time we were here, that ain't 350 feet. And as someone who lived in Philadelphia for like quite a long while, went to school there, I was like, Janine ain't living there on a teacher salary. Come on. No. No, she has a roommate. She ain't staying alone. So, do you feel like the finale landed the plane for you? Oh, absolutely. I think it did. It was everything that I, that all, it brought out all the emotions that I feel about.

this show, which is excitement, you know, some, a large level of annoyance with some of the characters, a lot of laughter. Oh, Janine and Gregory. And, you know, like, here's the thing, bro. Like, and I love that they used a party setting. That's usually what you use for season finale, like parties or maybe like, you know, church events or something that were like, all the characters can build out their storylines in one place.

But, like, in the context of a party, everybody getting a groove on. And Janine and Gregory are just being just fucking sad boys on two sides of the of the of the dais. It's like, yo, the one part that I got annoyed with Janine was if you're going to throw a party, all you got to do is just make sure it's jumping and then just relax. Like, just take a shot after a while. No, that's not the tension. The tension of the entire episode is Janine cannot throw a party. Like she's two type A.

No, it was, it was smack until it wasn't. It was, she had it all right until she did it. You know what I'm saying? Like she had it great until she just started thinking too much. She had jigsaw puzzles at the fucking party, bro. Like there was never a point where I was just like, Janine knows what she's doing.

Come on, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. The jigsaw puzzle was great because Ava got her groove back with the homie at the jigsaw puzzle. Don't be hating. You need activities. I don't know what parties you go to. You need activities, dog.

You need the brown liquor. You need brown liquor and you need a DJ. That's it, bro. We're talking, you're talking about. You're talking about parties for 18 to 24-year-olds. Motherfucking, you doing jigsaw puzzles and jenga at parties now? It was a kickback hybrid. That's what it was.

It was for 30-something-year-olds. Not in a fucking one-bedroom apartment. No, that shit was clearly two bedrooms, bro. They had enough room for all of that. It was very spacious. First of all, to your point, they did make an apartment way bigger. Second of all, that's a one-bedroom apartment. They've made use of the room and the space for 30-somethings, not brown-lickered up,

Charles. How large does your apartment or house need to be for a kickback? Can you have a kickback in a two-bedroom apartment? Yeah, you can have a kickback in a studio. It don't matter. No, you can't. How many people are in a kickback minimum? Let's say six or six. Six to eight. Six to eight? I was going to say like 20. That's a party. You just got us off track Like you always do Charles By trying to just pick an argument I didn't know where we're at I didn't know how y'all get down in the bay

You know you've never invited me to a party in the bay So I didn't fucking know I did you still ain't pulled up though And that's we'll keep that off we'll keep that off Off the feed No I think that it was it was the perfect place Type to do this type of episode And it brought all the emotions right

And I think it really did You know with the love triangle but did it the best it could with the Love Triangle and explaining a lot of things, right? Like it had to be, instead of, you know, drawing out a huge season where you're going to get the, what happens with Manny and Janine, it's something subtle like Janine standing next to Manny for two seconds, right? Or them looking at each other.

They did a really good job of the eye contact throughout the episode. But it did what it needed to do. I mean, I really, really did enjoy the finale quite a lot. I thought it was funny. I think every character, I do, what I do enjoy is like, in this finale,

we got every character finally kind of getting out of the confines of the school and getting like Barbara gets to let her hair down. I was so happy to see Miss Barbara gets faded.

Oh my gosh. Oh, man, doing her little two-step. On that holy water. Oh, man, it was great. But when the kiss does happen between Gregory and Janine, there was a moment

where I was just like, I'm happy for y'all. But I'm like, I already know what season four are y'all gonna fuck it up. It was so stupid. And they were both just trying to fumble this bag, bro. Because also, what happened with them don't happen in real life. Like, it just does not happen. It's a missed moment. What do you mean?

You never circled the block. You never ran back. You never left the party and be like, oh, she wanted me to stay and be like, dog. This never happened to you, Logan. No, also, we can get it to it later in the episode. But not, like, I don't, I don't get down. that I would have, if Janine was my boo, I would have been locked her up at Gregory's age. Like, what are we doing?

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behind every bite. Boershead. Committed to craft since 1905. Let's circle back. At some point, we're supposed to talk about each of our favorite episodes is, and my favorite episode is the one when they're at the bar, and Gregory is out here looking like a straight

sucker. Oh, fuck that episode, bro. I couldn't, well, I literally had to fastball. It was so cringeworthy, bro. Just like, oh my God. I'm still starting that episode and I'm just, I'm in the whole time, right? Like, I'm just like, are you serious?

Because here's a thing. And this is what I would have done. And this is how, this is what Gregory, which is why he doesn't deserve Gene and they don't really deserve each other because they're so annoying and trying to get with each other.

But like, Gregory, you already got your boot thing who was kind of filling you at the, at the bar with you by your side, who's ready to like, you know, see where it goes.

Oh, the EMT. I was just like, pay attention to the EMT. She gave him more. Multiple chances, bro. Multiple chances. Multiple vibes. All the thing.

And you're going to go over there and over here, try to spin the block. That's not P. That ain't, G. That ain't the way the game was filled out, dog. What you do is you take a couple cold stairs.

You look at Janine and be like, I bet. You do the Cam Newton gift. You say, I bet, and you focus all your attention on the EMT, and you have a fun night with her. You have one of the funest nights

you can possibly have. And whatever goes down with you in the EMT after that, that's y'all. business. And then when it's time, you can spend the block. But you over here, just drunk and just going to over there to where they're eating and stuff and just asking hell of questions. You look and foul, not only in front of Mani, but in front of Janine's ex. Like, you out here looking wild in these streets. But here's the thing. This is what pissed me off because I'm like,

yo, Gregory, all you need to do is have a real good time on your fucking date. Janine's already going to feel some type of way. She's just like, I didn't lock it down when I could have. You eroded all of that Will all of that stuff by over there going over there and acting like a straight sucker. And what's that's what I'm concerned with in season four. Because here's the thing, man. Gregory is a level five sad boy who is like, like, you know, 18 year old level sad boy, like 18 to 22 year old. Like we was there at once upon a time. Oh, yeah, man.

Where you're just like all in your feelings. You can't be like that at 30, bro. Like he was over here just all in the feeling. to the point where he's going to fuck it up. And I think that he's still in that mode. And I think he is going to be the one to find the way to mess it up. And the reason why I went back to the flashback suggestion before you fucked it up and cut me off is I really want to see, because Maddie's not going anywhere, he still works at the district.

I think the story, if I were writing it, the story of a season four of this series is exploring Gregory's fuckboyness and his massive jealousy because he is going to be completely jealous he got his girl but that doesn't matter right like it doesn't getting the girl is the first step in all this you got to make sure that you are

you know spiritually all well and he's not he's not he's still going to be in the back of his mind let's stay on Gregory because I actually think Gregory is the MVP of this season he won a season for show not not in like he was an he was an annoying character

to root for. But with Janine not being in the school, I think it allowed Tyler James Williams to really honestly carry the show in the way that like, Ava really can't. Because Ava as the principal is the funniest person, but she's the person that's usually giving you

the hardest punch lines. Also, she doesn't have our shit together enough to do it as a character. But with Gregory, he was kind of like the axis around what a lot of this season was turning. And to your point, what I found so riveting is like, not only is he a fuck boy, but we're learning about this character

where I'm just like, dog, Jacob gave you the alley- like Jacob was in the bus being like, hey, yo. Say what you want about Jacob, but Jacob be getting all of them. Like, he'd be pushing the line. He got all the booze, right?

He's out, he's in the streets. He hugged his ex while, in the same party, while his new boo was there. That's some real G-shit right there. That's some real G-shit. Shout out Jacob.

I'll do it some long-rearing. Pimpin. Wait, was the Drake lied? What's the one from so far gone? I just see my next girl talking to my ex-girls talking to the girl that I'm right now. Why are you bringing up Drake stuff right now in this climate dog? It's wall. You are, you are shripping.

It's fucking fine. We all can agree. Kendrick Lamar won the battle. Sometimes you got to pop out and show niggas. We all know. Hey, sometimes when I'm sad, I'm like, I'm going to put on that honestly, never mind. It's a light skin moment. Anyway, getting back to this.

The thing that I'm, like, very, very interested in with Janine and Gregory and the future of Abbott Elementary is that I think a lot of shows, whether it is friends, whether it is the office, whether it's parks and rec, whether it is cheers or whatever. The love triangle is always almost the hardest part of a sitcom because once the two characters get together, it almost becomes fundamentally a different show. Boy Meets World as well. Boy Meets World. Classic. And the thing that I've never gotten from Abbott, and I think that the broom is so talented, will get there,

is that I never felt like either of these were not destined to get together. Whereas, like, when I watch friends, there was a moment in friends where I'm like, man, how are they going to get fucking Ross and Rachel? Like, it's just like, these motherfuckers have done too much shit, bro.

They got a whole ass kid and they still fucking around. Like, you know what I mean? Where it's like with Abbott, I'd never honestly bought throughout this entire, three seasons that like manny or anyone like when uh gregory was dating barbara's daughter i was like none of these motherfuckers are like for real for real like that you know what i mean because all none of them were actually like none of them were actually fucking with jeanne right like in terms of what janine has to offer and on janine's side no one was fucking with gregory in terms of what

gregory could offer like zach box's character is a herb and is somebody that is definitely just like, oh, Tareka's hilarious. I mean, herbs are hilarious, yes, of course, but what has he been? He's been a rapper. He's been like the head of the PTA.

He's just, his schick is that he's an idiot. That's literally the schick of his character, right? So you're putting that against Gregory, who was an actually serious person with ambition and all of these things. You, you tend to,

that's why you feel like, nah, none of these other characters are going to work in trying to dethrone Gregory or dethrone Janine as a person that is serious, right? Like, that's why it's tough because of, it's tough that we had a shortened season three because the EMT woman, like, she seems, season EMT, she seems to have had her shit together,

right? and that would have been a formidable threat to what Janine had or what Gregory thought of Janine if Janine didn't get her stuff together. And that's one thing that I don't know how they're going to do it in season four, but like that would be something that's really cool, like a threat to their relationship, an actual threat because they're so, I mean, at this one, they're not even together yet. They just smashed one time to end the season.

That's literally where we're at. We're not even at a point where they're actually together. Let's see what happens over the summer. Why was Gregory doing the whole thriller shit? You know, when Michael Jackson puts his arm over to shoddy and then he looks back at the camera and the eyes start glowing. I'm like, yo, Gregory, your horny ass needs to calm the fuck down, bro. Like, he walked in there like, I'm smashing.

But like, I was just like, here's a thing. Here's the thing, man. both of them looked like some both of them looked weak as hell towards the end of it. I know why they had to do it for dramatic effect and all these things right but like and seriously when that really happens in real life

all that happens is first of all Janine if this was real life Janine and Gregory would have kissed on the bed before hand like they would it wouldn't even just been like I gotta go like everybody knows that y'all like each other and then when it was time to go Gregory would have been like y'all stay here

and Janine would have been like bad like it wouldn't have been like No, so this is why Gregory is a set. Like, when he got the text message, I'm like, that's not P, bro. Like, that's not. Like, when he's taking the photo and he sees, man, the whole text pop up, I'm like, nah, that's the moment.

Nah, bro, because I'm with show. Even if there was a thing, like, I'm with show chick right now, bro. I'm with her right now and I see my vibe with her. Like, who cares? There's no ring on the finger, bro. I'm like, I'm telling her, I'm like, you could go on the date with that motherfucker. Like, he ain't me, though.

I'm like Gregory, like, Gregory making these young black success, like young black successful men look sad, bro. You were so toxic. What? You're so toxic. Whoa. You're so toxic. How am I so toxic?

That is honestly, honestly, you're being toxic. Because here's a thing. That's what I would want to show her to say to me. She's like, I know, I know you got X, Y, Z in your phone. Go on a date with them. They're not me. Hey, man, we don't have video yet on a prestige TV podcast. But Chuck has Malcolm X, Malcolm X, Glass is on with a doo rag and a zip up and a zip up.

at a zip-up hoodie looking like he's about to be a guidance counselor at Englewood Rec Center right now. Whoa, first of all, maybe I have a fucking date, Logan, and it's like,

I'm trying to get my hair right. You know what I'm saying? I'm moisturizing. The pomade has to fucking set in. You acted real different on the West Coast is all I'm going to say, but let's get back to the show. You don't understand, Logan,

the minute I touched down in L.A., motherfuckers was moving differently out here. I just, it's not, that grimy Wutang New York shit anymore. You know what I mean? I need a manny petty. It's just, that's how it is. Oh, so, L.A. made you a bad bitch.

I mean, Kendrick, unfortunately, he has made it so light skin of men can no longer be bad bitches anymore. But, uh, it's fine. Anyway, who is it? Let's get back to this. One thing I was interested about, and I think I noticed

it more because of the condensed season, how did you feel about all the guest stars? we had Bradley Cooper, we had Jalen Hurst, we had Questlove, and I loved it because it is like a, oh, this, like my favorite show on TV, my favorite sitcom, they got that shit. They have it now. But there was a sense at some point where I'm like,

oh, Quest Love is in this motherfucking out. Like, you get it. Like, they Philadelphia heroes, but at a certain point, you like, you know what, I know, I liked it. You know, I really liked it. And I know that you, you know, you're the backpack underground guy. You want everything to. be underground. Wait, how am I,

whoa, whoa, how am I the backpack underground of the two of us, Logan? That's a good point. But for the purposes of this argument, you are underground. And I liked it. The reason why I liked it was is because to a certain set of the population that

deeds this show to be legitimized, it legitimized this show. You know, Bradley Cooper was huge for the legitimization of this show in the long term, right? Not to audiences like me and you, but to a larger audience out there and the zeitgeist and you can

make conclusions about that statement however you will. Are you talking about white folks? Are you are the zeitgeist white people Logan? The masses. The masses? You need to bro, bro, get the fuck out of here, man. This is what I don't like.

Logan, you're always so buttoned up you know on the basketball side because you need to be. Come over to the culture side bro. We're like we're just living our lives like we're not fucking censoring shit. Come on, man. Let your hair down. I don't have any hair to let down, but it was great to see this on this side.

Just for it to get legitimized, right? And also, like, for ABC to push the button, if you will, on this series. And I don't know if we're going to get to this in this episode, but I do want to make a point here. ABC isn't in a great space when it comes to black and people of color who are creatives, right? The last two big black shows that they've had, or black showrunners that they had, right? Shonda Rimes left on bad terms.

Didn't feel like she could fully exude her creativity. Anthony Anderson has said the same thing about blackish, right? And the same with Kenya Burris. ABC needs to do right by its black and brown and brown talent at this point, right, in terms of their creativity. And they need to push the button around those things and, you know, kind of build a star on the rise in Quint of Brunson and build that show. Because they have, they've had a spot.

track record. And I think I don't know the ends and outs of this, but this was a step to doing that, right, to legitimize that show to whoever you want to say it's being legitimized for, Chuck. You touched on something that I, that was actually what I really enjoyed about season three and is actually why every year since Abbott has come out, if you've asked me, like, what are your top five, top 10 shows of the year? Abbot is always getting in there, is that there's a tension happening in Abbott where for the history of sitcoms, Most sitcoms have like on this stage at least, we've had black sitcoms. We've had Martin and Fresh Prince and the Cosby showing.

He's all just Sanford and Son. But I think Abbott is on ABC. It is compete. Not just competing. It is the number. I believe it's probably like one of the number one sitcoms, if not already. But there's always this tension, I think, where there are some episodes where I'm like, this is a black ass episode.

and the jokes that they are saying are so dark. Not so dark, but there was... My favorite episode, I think it's called... It's the episode where smoking, where a student catches the teachers in the teachers' lounge, talking about, like, I think Janine reveals that she smokes weed after work, and Jacob vapes, and, like, Barbara is talking about

how much wine she drinks. And there's this joke when they're at the assembly, essentially, where one of these guest stars, like a kid asked them about, like, what their mom's medicine is, and it's like an STD medicine. And I'm like, how does this joke get past all of these people

to get on air? This is one of the, like, I literally had to pause it. And I was like, this is not only the funniest episode of Abbott. It's one of the funniest episodes I've seen all year. And that's what I want more of the show.

When I was talking to more, like, I don't need the show to become Atlanta. I don't want it to. I agree with you. What makes the show great is that it's doing something simple so, so well. But do you ever watch this

where you're just like, what is the version of this show where you get more of those dark jokes, more of that black humor, more of that shit where you're like, oh no, Quinta was on Twitter for 10, 15 years. She knows when to push it.

One of the parts that I thought was like very interesting that I didn't think I was ever, going to hear acknowledgement on a stage like this. But like when they, I forget the episode, but they dropped the Joe Budden pod reference. And I was like, oh, shit. Okay. Yes.

This is definitely a book. This is different here because like I was not going to, we weren't going to hear that on any other type of show. And just the sheer audacity to just make a reference to a pod that's as polarizing is that one. And that is seemingly a podcast for by and for the black community to just put that on the main stage like that was really, really interesting. And I thought that, and I, you're going to, I think the listeners are going to hear me, like, kind of wrestle with this in real time.

But it's something that I have been wrestling with. Like, is it a black show or is it a show that is set in a black area, thus we, thus a lot of black people are going to be in it, right? Like, it's a black show in the sense that the writers are, by and large, black, right? And that it is created by a black person. But it's in Philadelphia, right? And you kind of see that it is multicultural as much it is black. It's overwhelmingly black in terms of the student population, but you have a teacher like Melissa who's with the shits, right? Or you have a gay white man like Jacob, right?

And I mean, as an overall point, they did great with the intersectionality of the world today and what Philly is, right? But I wrestled to think like this is a black show versus in the black community. Like Fresh Prince of Bel Air was a black show, right? I think Martin was a black show. And this feels like something that is just set. It happens to be set. And it's very good because Abed L. imagery does a great job of subtly hinting at what the world that it lives in.

Right. Like even Bradley Cooper, like saying, oh, this shit is underfunded, right? But I think that this was something that was a representation of what Philly is as a city, as opposed to explicitly saying, this is a black show. And I'm wrestling with that even in real time. Like, I don't know. Charles, what did you think of this? Do you think this is a black show or do you think this is a show set in a

overwhelmingly black and multicultural community? I think it just be both. It is like when I think of that Abbott Elementary, I think you have to think of like, why would we even have that conversation? And the reason we would is because throughout the history of TV, any show that is created by black people starring black people, we put into a box of that's a black show. And that's the fear I have whenever I call it a black show.

Like obviously it's over one. And I do want it to be that, but I don't want it to be limited by that because it's such a great show. Think about the wire, though. The wire is created by a white man, but it is a black show. But the reason that it's like we don't, like people don't always like, oh, it's a black show is because why? It has the respectability of HBO. Abbott Elementary has the respectability of ABC. It's like there's no, there's not a white alternative to Abbott Elementary on the air yet. There's not another sitcom that's competing. Well, you juxtapose that also with like Martin that was like

distributed by Fox, right? Which is also like a white network that does have some level of legitimacy right? Because no, but at that time being like blackness and selling black shows like in living color, Fresh Pants, Martin, Moesha, like the list goes on and on.

It was a different time in TV history where there was just more black shows on. Well, yeah, you talk about the rise of UPN and all these places, right? And like, ABC, it's like, if you're not, if you're not, to your point, I'm like, if you wasn't Shonda Rhymes, if it wasn't blackish, youngish, whatever, motherfuckers wasn't getting an ish. And I am a fan of blackish, um, and grownish too. What did turn me off and

annoy me, um, was, while it was a show that was, um, that was great and was, was, was, was, was clearly written by black people, but felt like it was written for, to teach other people about how we function in society, right? as opposed to Abbott, which is, it's not as preaching. It's definitely something that we can, it's a show where we don't have to explain ourselves. Where Blackish seemed like a show where we had to explain ourselves to another audience that doesn't give a fuck about us either way. Well, I think also what you have to realize about something like Blackish, and like I give, however you feel about that show, whether it's Blackish, whether it's a lot of the shows that Shonda Rhymes did, is that I bring that up because even though these were on networks that are largely white networks at the time, it wasn't like they were competing with a lot of black shows.

So it's like there was an effect of, well, oh, for Blackish to be successful, there has to be a level of we are basically making a show where black people are explaining to a white audience about blackness in a way that, like, Quinta is from a different generation. She's younger. And I think she understands. And this is why I don't necessarily ever think,

is this a black show, is this or is that show? I'm like, it just happens to have black people in it. And just by virtue of it having black people in it, the jokes are going to be blacker. The cultural touch points are going to be stuff that like some audience members aren't going to understand. But I don't ever want to limit it because I'm just like, this is just a funny show in the same way. It's like Atlanta is a black show technically, but I put Atlanta up against the bear. What's the big difference between those two shows? Nothing really.

It's just one has a bunch of white people in it and one has a bunch of white people in it. And one has a bunch of black people in it. And I think the genius of something like Abbott is, it does not have to teach you the, oh, this is how hard it is being an inner city black youth in an underfunded school. Because they position it as this is an underfunded black school and not like this is what black people go through. Right. Like they definitely just use it as a, because like I said, I think about it as like in terms of, this is why I think school was such a great place to put this type of show if you're going to try to like to tell.

these messages because when you look at school in inner cities, especially where I come from in a place like Philadelphia, like it's not just black people going through these things, right? Like it's not just, it's societal. And it was effective in showing how fucked up it can be in a school. It brought humanity to a place where it doesn't really get a lot of humanity. You know, I think about this even with schools in Oakland around where I come from in Berkeley in surrounding areas. And like before I got into this, this, this, uh, this journalism writing bag,

I actually worked at one of these schools, right? I worked at, uh, I won't say the district. It's criminally underfunded. There were a lot of times where like I was put in positions where I felt like I was, I couldn't succeed in a lot of ways because I wasn't trained. There wasn't, it was like, oh, you signed this form out. You can work here, part time, do whatever you want. And you're dealing with these, with different types of kids.

And like, I think with, when you work in a school, you see all of the, it's not just a black thing or it's like, it's poverty, bro. And that's the thing with Abbott is that they,

it is predominantly black, but you've seen a lot of other people in poverty when you are in these types of schools. It's not just that. Which is why it's hard for me to call it a fully like black show. I just feel like it's in a predominantly black community, but it's so multicultural.

And you see some, many different types of people. So where do you think something like Abbott, how long can the series run? And I mean that not in terms of like, oh, like, does it have enough stories for eight or nine seasons? It's like, no, most sitcoms at this level of success are going to run eight, nine, ten, eleven seasons, or as long as they can. But if you've read about Quinta Brunson and everything that she has going on, I'm always one, I'm always kind of curious where I'm like, even in this season, I started to feel like, Quinta is quickly becoming such a star, and obviously she has her hands in multiple things.

I think she wants to direct, right, star in movies, all of these things. And I'm like, there's a version of Abbott Elementary that I wouldn't want to see where Janine potentially does take a backseat in case Quinta does have to do X, Y, and Z. There's a version of the show that goes 11 seasons, and it's just like, does Gregory become principal? Does this happen and this happen?

And I was kind of wondering, I'm like, do we want Abbott Elementary to be the type of thing where it's just like, oh, it is five or six great seasons? And then because it's so successful, everybody goes off and does other things. Or do you think we're closer to getting like 11 seasons of this shit and Quinta may not be able to be in all of them? Because I'm starting to get worried where I'm like, Quinta Star is so on the rise. I'm like, it's hard to do 22 episodes. Like that is, that's damn near a season. fucking of a sport.

I wrested with this all night, like, thinking about what Quintas should or shouldn't do, right? And who am I? Like, I'm just a casual observer of a star. But I wonder just even where the landscape is and how fractured everything is in film and all these things. The most unifying thing that you have at this point right now is Abbott Elementary, right? Where you are going to get the most eyes, you're going to get the most people seeing what you're doing and this is going to be the most cashier you get. If I'm Quentin Brunson,

do I milk all this cashay for instability for what it is? Or do I just like bounce out and just try to figure it out some other way and like hope and pray? Me personally, I might stick it out for like even a little bit longer. So I, if I'm going to Brunson, I'm thinking, let's do six or seven. Let's not make it stale and make it a fucking soap opera. But like, let's see it through. Because one of the other things about this show, is we haven't really been able to see it through, right? Because of the writer's strike, because this was a mid-season replacement show, right?

Like, we haven't really seen this show really been able to fire on all cylinders. And I think if we get two or three more seasons of that, I think we think Quinta Star is rising now. Like, I think she can, like, she'll be in a wildly great place if we can get a couple more seasons out of it. Oh, I mean, here's the thing. Quintz is not leaving the show. I don't think there was ever a question of my mind.

like, oh, she's leaving soon, but there is that question. Quinta's a big fan of you. She might be listening to this. Quintz, don't lead a show yet. No, there was a, there have been times when I'm watching the show where I'm like, to your point, there is I think Quinta, the track that she's on and how talented she is, obviously,

as a showrunner and a creator and all these things where it's like, I don't even know what she wants to do. Does she want to go that the route of, oh, I'm like a Bill Lawrence or a Greg Daniels where I'm making a bunch of comedies. I'm overseeing a bunch of comedies. is there going to be an Abbott Elementary

Spinoff? Is it the type of thing where Quince is just like, oh, I want to direct a movie now. We see how, like, you see how Issa is where it's like, because Insecure was on HBO, I think what, Insecure was four seasons, I want to say, was it four or five? Around that. They could like,

Issa now is just a star. She's just in shit and you're just like, oh, like Donald Glover, he could have done eight seasons of Atlanta. He didn't. Abbott is different. Abbot is a sitcom. It's 22 episodes. It has to come back. And theirs was on, theirs was on the difference between

ESA and Donald and, and Quinta is, they were on cable. They were on cable. This is a network comedy that needs to come every fall, right? Every fall, 22 episodes. It's not niche either.

And it's not a niche show. Like, this is a, this is for a mass appeal of audience, whereas FX and HBO is a bit more niche in terms of, you know, just the audience. This is what it is. And,

like, has that to her advantage, man. She should she should milk. Because like, I think about like Abbott has the has the potential to be like a friend's like show where like everybody's about to be able to eat. It's changing everyone's

lives in real time. And all they're going to do is just milk this and get his most money. And when it's time for all these people to, you know, get their next wind, they're going to be able to do that on their own pace, which is a rare thing to be able to do in Hollywood.

So as we wrap up, where does Abbott go in season four? Because the trajectory where I've talked to Quinto before, she knows more about sitcoms and comedy than almost anyone alive. Traditionally with season four is it follows the hero's journey of like, all right, our hero finally got everything that they wanted. And it's not what they expected. So for Janine, it's, hey, I finally got the love of my life. Gregory and either the pilot, not the pilot, but the first episode of season four is like,

it all went immediately wrong, or season four is like, it's the slow burn of it's all going wrong. We need to break them up. So that is like, that's the thing that I'm interested about is like if season, like, how could season four juggle Janine Gregory making that interesting when we've seen that ad not? Like that is every sitcom we've ever seen, which is fine. But to your point, because because this was something that, like, came back at such a time where it needed to, like, kind of fire on all cylinders, get and get out. It's not a traditional season run. I'm like, oh, it's almost harder coming back this time.

I expect it. Like, I was just like, they're not. The moment they kissed, I'm like, this shit's going bad. To your point, Gregory's too much of a sad boy. He's too jealous. He's too. This is going to go wrong. I think the theme, if I have to guess, I think the theme of season four is going to be,

How do you balance love with ambition? Because at this point, like, Janine and Gregory are both people that are highly ambitious, right? Like, highly ambitious people. And this seems to be the first stop in their journeys to a long, whatever teaching career, whatever that means, right? And they're going to have to balance that throughout the season. And I think that that's going to be something that's going to be interesting to look at. I think there's a big opportunity to talk about black love and where it is in 2024. how you balance that. You can talk about that while talking about, you know, the triangle with

how Gregory's ambitions to being a principal. There's so many places you can go with this, right? Like the flashbacks towards Manning. Does Mani get his leg back? Like, who knows, right? Like, you never know. There's so much that could happen. But I think the theme to wrap it up is going to be the balance, love, and ambition. And that's going to be tough. You want Many flashbacks and deep episodes on Black Love in season four. I said that's one of the directions you can go. There's 20.

This is why we're not in the writers room, Logan. Not yet. Below. All right. Last question. Promise. Scale of 1 to 10. Prestige TV scale.

Season 3, Abbott Elementary. Where are we going, Logan? I'm just expecting you to yell at me, but I'm going to go in an 8. Oh. We're not that. Here's a thing. We're not that far away.

We can't do half scores. We can't do half scores. I'm going to say a very, very, very strong seven. And that wasn't because the episodes were bad. That was just more so. It was just a little truncated, like we've said. That's pretty good for a man who hates everything. I don't hate everything.

I like a lot of stuff. Abbott is one of my top five shows of the fucking year. I love Abbott Elementary. A dog. Just to peel the curtain back on me and Chuck's relationship. dog. Yo, during the Kendrick and Drake beef, it was hell talking to this man. It was hell.

Why? Because he was just going through all of the motions. His first inclination was to hate on every single thing. Every text was this sucks. Most of the songs did suck. Thank you so much, Logan, for joining me to argue about Abbott Elementary season three. Thank you so much to the kickback king himself, Kai Grady, on the words and twos. producing and y'all make sure you stay tuned for more prestige tv podcast goodness and we will see y'all

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