The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Anne Rice's Interview With the Vampire’ Season 1 Recap

Episode Date: November 7, 2022

Charles Holmes and Joana Robinson discuss the latest adaptation of Anne Rice’s gothic novel, ‘Interview with the Vampire’ on AMC. While the show has no ties to the 1994 film adaptation, they discuss the differences between the two before praising Jacob Anderson’s portrayal as Louis de Pointe du Lac, and the dedication to maintaining the authenticity of the entire production. They also debate whether the show has enough draw to bring more subscribers to AMC+, how race played an important part of the show, the use of music, differences from the novel, and more. Hosts: Joana Robinson and Charles Holmes Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hilton for the stay. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast. feed. I'm Joanna Robinson. It is too late for Halloween. It is too early for Mardi Gras. But nonetheless, we are here to talk about a spooky New Orleans extravaganza. It's Interview with the Vampire. And Charles Holmes is here with me. Hi, Charles. How are you? I do declare. I am so honored to be talking about the vampire. Wow. I was ill-prepared for your incredible Southern accent. Oh, I've been doing it alone in my apartment for a week. It's bad.

So nonstop Southern, do you try to do the Lestat French accent as well, or is it just the New Orleans accent? Oh, no, I try to do that. And I like the interview with the vampire so much that, like, in the first episode, Lestat does, like, the vampire look. But he's trying to, like, seduce people. So I just randomly started doing it to my girlfriend, and she was not pleased. Can I see an example over Zoom right now? Wow. Oh. Oh, wow. I'm so sorry that this is like an auditory medium because the eyes, the pout, the pout, the, like, everything was there.

It was incredible, Charles. It was like a great vampire. Can you tell how hyped I am? Can you tell how excited I am? I am over the moon because like, here's what happened. I watched it a movie vampire. I became obsessed with it. I love it.

And then I was talking to our boss Bill Simmons. And I was like, I really want to do a prestige about interview. And he's like, well, let's see if Charles will maybe watch it. And I was like, he's like, Charles isn't sure it's going to be his thing. But, you know, for you, Charles will try one episode. And then you came back and you were like, I love it. Right? You love it?

I was so thrilled. Bill called me and he's just like, hey, why don't you just watch one episode? I was like, I actually, I realized in retrospect that I lied to Bill. He's just like interview with the vampire. And I did the very, like, a man thing where I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm that into romance, but we'll talk about it later. I'm like, Charles, you've not only watched every single Twilight movie. You've read every single book. Like, you literally read every single book. What the fuck are you talking about Charles? Like, this is put it in your veins. Like, I completely walked out a lot of my emo high school experience where I was very into romance. So this was up high school Charles's. Oh my God. Welcome back. All right. So we're going to talk about the whole season, seven episodes. episodes, they have all, you know, dropped on AMC TV Plus by the time that, you know, this podcast

will have dropped in your feed. We're going to do like a little, like a little slight, sort of similar to what we did with the bear, uh, goals in that if you want to. And this is also just another excuse for me to talk to Charles about journalism. Because this is sneakily also a show about journalism. But we're going to, we're going to talk about sort of some of the bigger picture ideas, some of our like larger takes and then sort of get into more specific. So if you haven't seen the show yet and you want like sort of our take on whether or not you should. We'll talk about that a little bit before we get into the details and then you can sort of press pause, go binge watch seven episodes, try out your southern accent, try out your vampire seduction looks,

and then come back and listen to us talk about the whole season. I'm going to just hit you quickly with some programmer reminders while I have you folks here on the prestige feed. Bill and I are doing White Lotus every Sunday so you can listen to us. Van and Charles are doing. Van and Charles are doing Atlanta. Where are we with Atlanta? Last episode. You guys have been doing such a killer, killer job with Atlanta. And I'm so excited to have more Charles on this feed in general. Very excited.

Woo! And then the, speaking of bad romances, messy, toxic romances, Malory Rubin and I will be covering the Crown season five. What a glory's time. What a glory's time. Do you like to watch messy people be messy with each other? than come to Buckingham Palace because that's what the crown is about as far as I'm concerned. Spoiler warning again, I don't know. We're going to talk about this season and I'll let you know when we're going to talk about details. But like beyond that, beyond this season, like I actually

only have a vague knowledge of what happens in the book. So we're not really going to talk about that that much. Oh, I'm not going to talk about it, but I did go on Wikipedia. I'm like, what happens to Louie? I'm like, what happens to Louie? Let's start. All right. Just some like background information. This was created by Roland Jones. And I was like, impressed. Like when I watched the first episode, it was so much better than I felt like it even needed to be. That's, that was my impression. I was like, they've got this IP interview with a vampire. Like, it's a known property. They could have sort of medium-assed it, you know, if they wanted to, they whole act. Like, this is, this, they went for it. You can tell this is classic TV.

This is class. This is someone who knows how to make a pilot episode in thralling. So, Roland Jones has worked on Friday Night's Wides, Bordewark Empire, United States, of Tara, like these great shows, but also the first two episodes were directed by Alan Taylor, who has done, like, some classic Sopranos episodes, Lost Mad Men, Thrones, is coming back for House of the Dragon to be like the EP. So, like, this is, he's also made some movies that are not great, but the man can direct an episode of television. Um, so those are some of the people behind this. And then Anne Rice and her son, Christopher Rice, are listed as EP's, uh, executive producers on the show.

An Rice died in December of last year. So, you know, she didn't get to see the final product of this. But my understanding is that they were much more hands on with this than they were with, you know, the Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt film or Queen of the Damned or anything else that's been adapted from her works in the past. We need to talk about the 1994 movie because I watched it for the first time. Before I got halfway through. I was not happy. I can't wait to talk to you about this. Yeah, so this is based on her 1976 book,

interview with the vampire. There's a ton of books in this series. AMC dropped a fortune, though I don't know how much, but to buy like the rights to all of Anne Rice's book. I don't think it's all of Anne Rice's book, but like a ton of Anne Rice's books. And they're basically making this like IP universe, the Immortals universe on AMC.

They are, the Mayfair Witches is the next series. and it's dropped like they already set up press screeners. It's dropping like beginning of January. Like they're rolling right ahead with this whole franchise that they're building. But yeah, let's talk about the 1994 interview with the vampire movie that is not, this is not a prequel or a sequel or have anything to do with that movie. They are like ignoring that that movie happened.

But this is Tommy Cruz, Brad Pitt, Kirsten Dunst and Tony Venderas. It's the mid-90s height of their, well, Kirsten's just, starting the height of their potency. Why did you hate it? Charles Holmes. So I was not prepared for this.

I was just like, you know what? In prep, I'm just going to like watch it. And Sam Reed plays LaSat in the AMC version, right? Yes, yes. The drop in quality from Sam Reed is LaSat. And Tom Cruise, who literally just, Lestat is from Paris. And like Tom Cruise just has his,

regular white dude voice. And I was just like, oh, like, of course, you know, I read about interview with the vampire, how we had homoerotic undertones, but maybe not as fully proudly gay as the AMC version. You cannot get two straight men with as little interest. And like, I'm just like, can y'all smolder at each other a little bit more? Can I get a little something?

Neither of you are trying at all to convince me. like, I don't know what Tom Cruise is doing. Like, he's yelling in the Tom Cruise way, the same way he would yell at like the recruits in Top Gun Maverick. I just don't understand what the movie was. Can you explain to me? Because I was like, what I realized, the movie got positive reception.

It did pretty well. I was just like, was it a different time than before? I mean, it was, but what I would say is that, um, I mean, first of all, we were a little more start for vampire content, right? because this is like before the Buffy Vampire TV show, before Twilight, before True Blood, before like vampires were everywhere.

This is like early vampire erratica content. And I would say at least, I don't think you've got to him, but at least Antonio Banderas is like trying. Oh, he's trying. I got to him. Yeah. Antonio's trying.

I think a lot of what's happening with Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt in 1994 is that they are just like so famous. And like these shes, hugely famous sex symbols that they're just coasting on that. But like, so Tom Cruise Azlostat works only if you are

existing in the world of the mid-90s where Tom Cruz is a sex symbol. This is before he hopped on Oprah's couch. This is before we knew about Scientology. This is before he turned into like that weird guy who was trying to kill himself for our entertainment, Mission Impossible Top Gun Tom Cruise. He was

like, People's Sexiest Man Alive Tom Cruise. And So it's just a different, yeah, it's a different time. Both of them are sex-y and it. Don't get me wrong. They're both very hot at the peak of their, like, well, actually, I would say they've aged, both of them have aged, like, fine why. But I will say this.

Yeah. Tom Cruise at Brad, I guess I was a little, I was a little spoiled watching interview with the vampire on AMC because it is so just like, is it the first episode where there's a full-on, like, gay sexing? I'm like, let's fucking go. And in, like, the movie, I'm just like. can y'all smooch at least once? Like, what am I watching?

This is weird. I was not happy. If they're not boyfriends, like the whole thing doesn't really make sense. It's no sense. No sense if they're not boyfriends. It's just like two dudes. Like, it's essentially what the movie is,

is like two frat bros being like, we're going to be friends forever. I made you a daughter. Don't worry. We're not gay. And I'm just like, the story doesn't work, guys. I'm sorry.

Yeah. So I do have like a nostalgic effect. for that movie. Kirsten Dents is incredibly good. That's like a very early Kirsten Dents performance. So she's pretty great. The wigs are something to behold, but like this

blows it out of the water as far as I'm concerned. Like this makes that movie look ridiculous, honestly, by comparison. So let's talk sort of like in a non-specific, non-spoiler way, just like some of the stuff that we love. You already mentioned Sam Reed. I will just say that I think Sam Reed and Jacob Anderson

as Lestat and Louis are just absolutely incredible. Jacob Anderson, who I know very well from Game of Thrones, who played Grey Worm for years and years and years, but that character is so written to be so one note. And I would see Jacob Anderson in interviews, and he'd be so charismatic, and then I would watch Grey Worm, and I was like, there's no there there.

And then he just shows up as Louie, and it's like, you spend the whole first episode with him as a human and getting to know him as a human. and there's just so much warmth and, like, conflict and pain and, like, passion and humanity, like, just gushing out of him in that pilot episode. The monologue that there's a monologue that he gives in a confessional. I said we weren't going to be specific, but I'm sticking to the first episode, so it's okay. Like, that I was just, like, I was just blown away by. So, like, what do you think of the cast in general, Charles Holmes?

I think that this show lives in dogs. by the chemistry between Louis and Lestat, and it especially lives and dies by how quick Jacob Anderson can get you to care about Louis, because almost immediately the minute they go back in time, because at first, I was a little like, I'm like, what is this? When you first meet the interview and all the modern stuff, but the minute they go back in time, and you see Jacob Anderson as Louis before he's a vampire, and you see just like how charming he is, how electric he is, how he's all, it's this tightwire act, you understand why LaStat is like you.

I want to be with you forever. Like, and immediately, like, you're gone and that's probably why. I know a lot of people love Sam Reed. I love Sam Reed. He does such a good job as LaSat, but I have to give kudos to Jacob Anderson being able to play this character through the decades. And you can tell through the seven episodes how much he changes.

I can't speak highly enough for Jacob. He killed him. I think I agree with you. Like when it started and we're in the modern, there's like, you know, it takes place in 2022 in Dubai. There's some pandemic stuff in there that I was like, do I want pandemic stuff?

Like what's going on? And then it turns out that it, I think works really well thematically. And yeah, Jacob Anderson's doing his like almost gray worm like super serene. And I was like, oh, is this one? And then you, and then when the contrast, we need the contrast of Louis when we meet him versus that, then the modern stuff starts to really make sense and really like engages you.

And I think also having Eric Begozian who plays Daniel Malloy, the journalist, who is played by Christian Slater in the Neil Jordan movie. That adds a layer of when I see Eric Begozian, who a lot of people know from succession, he plays this sort of like Bernie Sanders. type senator on that, but like it has been a fixture for so long in theater and television and film. That's like a prestige jump to me when I see him. And I just like, as a journalist, as fellow journalist Charles, how do you feel about journalism representation in Daniel Malloy here? I think honestly, if I'm going to be real, there was a lot of like journalism bullshit in terms of is like whatever people do a show about journalists, they make journalists seem like way more cool than normal.

But the thing that they got right, the thing that they hate is of just like, oh yeah, this would be a very celebrated journalist who would have worked at a gloss magazine, like Vanity Fair, or GQ or Rolling Stone. Yeah, at the end of his life.

Just being like, his kids hate him, his family hates him, he's alone, no one will hire him. It's just like, yeah, that's where most of other people, I looked up to you are now. You guys got it. I actually think it was genius

aging him up in terms of like this story because just the chemistry between Daniel and Louis is so much more different when it's a journalist at the end of his life versus a journalist at the beginning.

I was just like, oh, this is, that was a stroke of genius doing it. This is, we're going to talk more specifically about some of the other adaptive changes they made,

but this is like one of the big, adaptive changes they made is that the book takes place in the 70s in San Francisco. And so what they premise for the TV show is that that interview happened. Younger Daniel Malloy did interview Louis DuPont Dulac in San Francisco in the 70s. But 50 years later, he's getting another shot at the interview. So adding that tension, adding that layer of time passing and Daniel feeling even more the weight of mortality. They have him

beat. He's ill with Parkinson's. The pandemic is going on. He's had all these crushing disappointments. That added layer of like dense,

dramatic chewiness and the regret and the loss that he feels that mirrors like a lot of what Louis is grappling with. A stroke of genius. Absolutely brilliant choice. And then I also just want to talk about the money that I feel like we see on on on the screen here like oftentimes we're both

fans of genre oftentimes genre stuff you know we're watching and or right now that's like top quality like peak TV great shit but like I am used to watching stuff that feels very rickety budget wise especially some of the vampire TV shows yeah the vampires yes yes but this is ex-abensive and you can see it they built this whole backline that's just like the streets of New Orleans and they shot on location in New Orleans and the costumes are incredible and the production design is incredible

and like one of my favorite details is they have all these contact lenses that they put in the vampires that are book accurate like how they're described in the book but they have I was watching behind the scenes where they have like all these different pupil settings for the contacts

depending on levels of arousal and ferocity so like the pupils will dilate or blow out depending on how the person's feeling. So I'm just imagining them in a scene just swapping these contacts out

but that's just like a level of detail and the level of money and they didn't do it digitally, they did it practically that like makes this world feel so rich and real despite the fact that we're talking about vampires. Charles,

what do you think about how this show looked? I think what, and it's interesting that you, because I didn't realize until today and then you brought it back up that they want to make this Anorice universe into something probably similar to the Walking Dead because it gave me similarity to what the Walking Dead did for zombies.

It's obvious AMC wants to do that with vampires because everything from the gore to the costuming to the locations. I was just like, oh, no, you want this to look good. Like you're telling me that this isn't bullshit because in the back of my mind, I'm like, all right, cool, first episode. I'm watching, I'm watching it. I'm like, oh, this to your point. Like this looks good.

Everything looks like, I feel like I'm in New Orleans. I feel like what they're wearing, even as you go, what Louis wardrobe at is it starts to change and how the opulence starts to come in. And like how he goes from having like, yeah, so how would you say in 22 parlance? Like he owns a brothel, brothel, yeah. Yeah, that's, I was struggling with the, he's a, I'm just going to say, madam, the male version. of a madam is what I would call him, right? As he goes in his career and becomes more successful, just that change of wardrobe and the places get bigger,

they get more decadent, I was forward. I think they did. They got me. I know I am a simple for things looking good and looking expensive, but hey, they got me. Just think they didn't have to go as hard as they went, and they went as hard as they decided to go. It's appreciated.

And I like, and I love, I was, I was reading an interview with the production designer and she was talking about how she wanted to avoid all the vampire cliches of like burgundies and blacks and like hyper gothic and all sorts of like stuff that we've seen in Twilight or in the vampire diaries. Like the like the color schemes that we're familiar with. And so you have a lot of like just period accurate like art nouveau, New Orleans style stuff and like of the color palette of the era. And it doesn't like, you don't like, you don't. have to go overboard with the vampirism because they've got fangs and they like, you know, are sucking people's blood. So like,

that's there. You don't have to then dress them in velvets and brocades. It's fine. Like, we're doing... This doesn't look like Hot Topic New Orleans. This looks like a serious New Orleans. Oh my God. Hot Topic, New Orleans. Oh, my God. Okay. So you mentioned this like

franchising thing they're going to do, right? They bought the rights to 18 Anne Rice Books. They're doing witches. We get it. We get it. get a couple mentioned of the Mayfair witches in the seat. Like, if you know that they were doing that, you will hear them reference sort of the Mayfair witches a couple times in this season. So they're like laying the track for this interconnected universe right from the jump. Whereas the Walking Dead, that was sort of like a thing that they did later.

We're like many seasons in there like, oh shit, this is our cash cow. Let's start like trying to make this feel like an interconnected universe. But something like a barrier of entry I've heard from a lot of people who are interested in watching the show is that they don't have AMC, they don't have AMC Plus. This is something that AMC bought and AMC is trying to make AMC Plus must have streaming platform.

I don't know that it's going to do what better call Saul or Breaking Bad or some of the other AMC shows did, which is like then they're going to stream it on Netflix and people will catch up and then like come back and watch it like watch season two. I think they're going to keep it exclusive to AMC

TV Plus. So I'm curious, Charles like anecdotally, like, do you know people who have AMC? Have you heard from people who are interested in like, are like, but I don't have AMC, so how am I going to watch this? Like, what do you, what do you think about? Like, is this a shiny enough lore to get people to sign up for this platform? I mean, anecdotally in my life.

I have never had AMC Plus. I downloaded it. I got my seven week free trial because Joe, you're my friend and I was very excited to watch this. So do I think that this will get them a lot more, uh, viewers. Subscribers. No. I do think

that they need the breaking bad thing to happen. I do think that this is something that would be well served by sending it

to a place like Netflix, having it be number one across the world because I do think it has that level of just fervor where I'm just like, oh, this is a show

where it doesn't matter who you are, your orientation, who you are, black, white, whatever. We're going to love this show. I do think it

would have been smarter if you send this to something like a Netflix. and they'd be like, all right, for season two, we're shutting it down. But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the AMC Big Wigs know something I don't. And maybe, I mean, I haven't heard definitively that they're not going to do that, but I really hope that they do because, like,

I understand that they're trying to compete with Netflix and that's the whole point of this purchase. But I think they can, like, use Netflix briefly or Lulu or some other platform to, yeah, get people hooked in this and then have them, yeah, because I'm having trouble. Like, I cannot shut up about this show. And like some people I know are like, I don't have AMC. I don't know what to tell you. So get the seven week free trial.

I watch this in seven, I mean seven day free trial. I watch this in seven days. You'll be good. Yeah, exactly. It's all up there now. So, okay. We're going to, now we're going to get into like some more specific specifics of episodes and stuff like that.

So you haven't watched it and you want to bounce, press pause, go download your free trial. Come back. We'll be here. But I want to take this opportunity. There's so much actual. Anne Rice writing in this show. It's one of those book adaptations

where you can tell that they just airlifted like full paragraphs of dialogue into the show. And I want to play this thing from the pilot. This is the first time where I was like, oh, they just,

oh, they just lifted. And that's great. So let's hear, let's hear the moment when Louis de Pontalach becomes a vampire. The blood is a doll who are at first.

A pounding of a drum growing louder and louder. As if some enormous creature were coming through a dark and alien forest, a huge drum. And then there came a pounding of another drum. As if another giant were coming behind him, each giant intent on his own drum. giving no notice to the rhythm of the other. Throbbing my lips, fingers, flesh of my temple. Above all, draw men and then the other draw. Hell yeah.

All right, so here's the deal. Vampire stories should be horny as hell, right? And Anne Rice has always been horny as hell. I feel like TV in general needs to be hornier than it is right now. TV and films in general need to be horny as hell. morenier than they are. I feel like we've moved away from like the 90s. Peacrotons as a society as a TV viewing movie viewing public. I agree. And just like that that was good. And I think the line where he says like dark and alien force, I was like, that's when I was

like, oh, this is just straight Anne Rice. That's what this is right here. So my question to you, Charles, I know that you like just experienced the 94 movie. What is your like awareness in general of Anne Rice as a writer as a cultural fixture. And then, I mean, you've already confessed to being a Twyhard Twilight fan, but like what's your larger vampire media relationship? So I didn't really know that much about Anne Rice. Like I had heard about interview with the vampire, but I think the movie was a few years before my time and just like,

I just never read the book, but I was aware of it. And in terms of like my connection to vampires, yes, I've read all the Twilight books. I also in college watched so much vampire diaries and the spinoff with whatever is. The originals?

The originals. I watched vampire diaries to the point where it got so bad that I was still watching it week to week where it was just like this was when they were like killing people and reviving them like every other episode. So my propensity for just like

vampire bullshit is through the roof. I've seen about half of the Vampire Slayer. So I'm not a vampire expert, but I've waited in probably not the greatest literary waters. If you've gone all the way through the vampire diaries, I feel like you have a claim to something. I can't remember if I finished the vampire diaries, but I did go definitely went further with it past the point of it being good. That is true. The horniness of vampire culture, I just want to.

want to say, like, Stephanie Meyer being a repressed Mormon and being the author of like the major vampire fiction of the early odds, I think did real damage to like how horny vampire stuff should be. I think true blood on HBO, one of like the peak horny shows, one of the peak like summer guilty pleasure horny shows that ever existed is like, is closer to where we should be. And we're on AMC so we're not HBO. level of horny, but we do get, we get butts. Like, we do like, we do get a lot of boobies, a lot of, a lot of, uh, topless and butts.

Yeah, a lot of thrusting. This is a very, to your point, that's also what hooked me because I agree. I'm like, not only should vampire shows be relentlessly horny, but they need to be hokey. I want my romance over the top. This is a normal day romance. I want people ready to like to kill themselves if they don't get their injection of love today. I need that level of drama

And that's why I love the show I mean I think the like In that clip we just played Which like first of all like You know all the like blood drinking Horny noises that come with that monologue But also like the violin Just like going for it

Love it! Love it! Love it! In addition to the horny though like something that Anne Rice did I think that's really key And I also like I'm I'm I've read interview with a vampire but I haven't read, and I read one other book she wrote, which is Lashor, which is honestly, I read that way too young. It was just like at a house we were taking a vacation in, and it is one of the horniest things

I've ever read, and I should not have been allowed to. My parents should have pulled that out of my hands, but they didn't know what I was reading. So Anne Rice, real, real cultural awakening for a lot of people. But like she combines that like gothic horniness with like really profound meditations on grief and loss this idea of

like if you live forever like what the accumulation of loss and regret could do for you the fact that she wrote this book

while grieving the loss of like a young daughter that she lost to a blood disease to leukeia and so like the idea of

Claudia and Louis and Lestat as like if you live forever everything dies around you. What does that feel like?

And so, like, your grief feels so big, it feels supernatural. And that's, I think, something that's on her mind when she's doing vampire fiction is, like, similar to sort of what Jocelyn would talk about in terms of Buffy, which is, like, when you're a teenager high school feels so dramatic and so scary and so heightened, that, like, we might as well make the, you know, the bullies monsters, or your bad boyfriend's monsters, literal monsters. And, like, when you're a parent and you've lost young, child or any point of grief that you experience your life, it's your personal grief.

It feels bigger than, you know, anyone else's grief. Your grief feels supernatural, feels huge. And I think that that's a key counterbalance to the like, hokey, horny stuff that she does really well is that, like, profound soul and sorrow that she also has in her work. Did that come through to you in this season of television? Oh, yeah. I think all of the characters, especially the main three, Louis Lestat, Claudia, are so broken in different ways. And the show does a great job of illustrating that if you live forever, the things that keep you alive, whether that's love or lust or blood, those feelings have to be so intense.

They have to border on addicting almost. And like how that can be corrosive and how all of these characters are chasing at these different things to hide the fact that they've lost so much, they regret so many of their decisions. I think what really drew me to this show is I think vampires are probably the best monsters we have in terms of talking about different things,

whether that's like lust and love or consent. But what happens when you change that character, when you change Louis from white to black, it gives you so much more. It gives you such a layer of, Like, okay, now not only did Lestat make Louis, what does it say about the master subordinate relationship? What does it mean to be in an interracial relationship, especially when we live forever?

What does it mean for Louis and Claudia to communicate two black characters and for Lestat to feel like there's a language that he does not understand in its own home? There's so much that I was just like, oh, this was in the original interview with the vampire, then so much more where I'm like, oh, they did the thing that a good showrunner does. How can we add? How can we make everything that this is saying about society feel even more direct in 2022, which is really what I fell in love with when I was watching? Yeah. Like, you know, when I saw the casting, I was like, sure, okay, let's see what they do.

And sometimes like casting changes, changing character from white to non-white can just feel like we would, we just want this to be, you know, a little more diverse or whatever it is. And then they're like, no, we're going to weave this into, this is the text of the show. It's not just like Louis happens to be a black man from New Orleans. It's like, this is tied into the idea of his identity as a queer man, as a vampire, like, all this sort of stuff. This idea that at the end of episode three, I think it is, he finally says, I'm a vampire, which is something that he, like, hasn't said. and the way that like the showrunner talked and Jacob Anderson talked about this idea is like a coming out for for Louis of like embracing that part of his identity and like what other parts of his identity is he going to embrace. I wanted to ask you about that because like let's talk about these major changes that they that they did all of which pretty much work for me.

The time shift changed. We already talked about changing the 1970s to 2022, but they changed the 1790. in New Orleans to turn of the century, like, you know, 1920s, 19t teens. I think a big reason to do that is so that Louis is not an enslaver, which he is in the book. He has a plantation. Yeah. You know, so they're like, let's just make it post-Civil War. Let's do that.

But I think it's really interesting, first of all, to make Louis a black man in New Orleans, but also still keep that idea where, like, he's running, sex workers. So he's still like running human beings. And so that part where Louis carries that sort of guilt, that weight with him in the book

translates over into who Louis is in the show. What do you think about that, Charles? So I loved a lot of the changes. I really do. I think I think

Jacob did an amazing job. with because like there I think it's in the first episode he says I'm a that he says that he has has to hide that he's a gay black man in in New Orleans I don't think that the this show is not subtle in any regard I don't think it's very subtle in it it's politics around race which is like fine it it slaps you in the face where in the first episode I'm like all right no we get it he's this is Jim Crow I I get it I and then I have to look up the uh the colors of the uh showrunner and the people and I was like, oh, okay, I get why it was less than subtle.

But I do think the underpining of like once maybe they like, they sold that and they're just like, this is where we are. I did think as the as the season progressed, it was so interesting seeing Lestat. This character that we are sold to is like this liberal bastion from Paris who like he gets it. He's one of the good ones. And you're charmed. Like you know something's going to break bad. but you're charmed by him. And he's almost like laughing this whole time

at like the casual and very overt racism that's happening in New Orleans at this time. And then I was floored when in the penultimate episode he's playing chess with Claudia. And Claudia finally beats him and he explodes. And it's finally the thing that Claudia had been seeing all this time, things that Louis had been like, he had a blind eye to where it's just like,

Oh, no, LaSot's just as bad as everyone. He's not just mad that a woman beat him at chest. He's mad that a black woman, a woman who was uneducated beaten in that chest. And it said so much about this entire series, what it means, this power dynamic. Because the other thing that vampire stories do so well is, like, they play with the power dynamic of a vampire giving a human powers for an older vampire versus the younger vampire. And what this does is, like, what? happens when you have a white vampire in a relationship with a black vampire who doesn't understand that even though this black man has all this power now, he still cannot inherit any of the power.

He's still a black man when he walks outside. I was like, oh, they did. Like, that is the thing that they needed to sell to me for this to be successful, is to make Louis and Claudia fully realized black characters that aren't, that all of the races just doesn't disappear because they're now powerful and can live for it. right. And I think to your point about it not being a subtle show on any level, I thought they use the character of Daniel Malloy, the journalist, like, so well because as they are hammering some of this stuff unsubtly for us, Daniel will then sarcastically comment on it in a way that

sort of lets the show off the hook, you know what I mean, where he just like casually grabs his own microphone at one point. He's like, what? master, blacks, like, you know, sort of like, like, I get it, okay, you know, sort of thing. And it's just like, it takes a little bit of the tension out of your like, how much, how much are being like, how righteous do they feel in what they're like preaching to me right now? And they're like, no, we get it. We get that we're being over the top. And you're like, oh, okay, okay. But isn't that part of the charm as well, where sometimes I think that like, we all want our shows to like be woke and we want them to be subtle and we want them to be saying these profound things. And I'm just like,

I don't know if I kind of want that from my vampire show. I kind of like the fact that they're asking all of the problematic questions. That's actually what a lot of good horror and vampire stories do, where they're just like, hey, yeah, this whole sexual dynamic between these two is pretty fucked up. Isn't it pretty fucked up that was that just ran to this white woman and is now gaslighting? His lover, like, this is fucked up. And I was just like, oh, yeah, like give me that. Like, give me that fucked up kinky shit.

Like, I don't know. Part of me was like, I put on my credit cab. Well, discuss the politics of this. And then other times my girlfriend's like, how do you like? I'm like, it's lit. Everybody's fuck. I thought it was so interesting, too. They were talking about how moving it from the 1790s to the 20th century,

they were like, we wanted to find a moment of opulence in New Orleans history or one of several. And an idea they had was like, let's do like the rise of jazz. in New Orleans and like what that, what that era, what the 20s into the 30s meant in New Orleans. And I just thought that was, first of all, I love, like, the moment that I flipped out, I was watching with a friend of mine who, like, loves Zan Rice. We were watching the pilot and I was loving it. We're having such a good time. And then Louie does brother do a fucking soft shoe routine at the sister's wedding? And I like, grabbed my friend by the arm and I was like, there's a damn number.

Are you kidding me? Perfect. There's like a musical number in almost every episode, like whether we're at the opera or we're at Louis Club or something like that. And I think that's canonically true in the books is that Lestat like becomes a rock star. Like in Queen of the Damned movie I've never seen, but I've seen, I lived through the early odds. So I saw trailers for it. Stuart Townsend plays Lestat with like leather pants like coming off his hips, like that kind of rock god. So like the fact that we get Listott as this like beautiful singer multiple times in this season is like, you know, laying track for a potential like future season set in the 70s or something like that.

But but I just flipped the music. And I thought it was really interesting. There's only, I think, one actual historical figure in this where they use Jellyroll Morton, who's a real famous jazz player as like the player in the, like if you've heard of Jelly's Last Jam, etc. a player in the club, which is an interesting moment. They're like, we're going to just peg this to one real life historical figure and he's here. And it's Shelley Roll Morton. But, okay, Charles Holmes. Yes.

Music critic, former Rolling Stone journalist, Extraordinaire. What did you think of the use of music in this show? I loved it because I think it always had a story reason where it was just like every single time music was employed in this team. TV series. It was like, oh, the other, but it's about to drop. Because once him and Paul, Paul and Louis have his dance, and then I'm like, man, this was around the time, my girlfriend started watching it, and she turns to me, he's like, why does everybody treat Louis, Paul so bad? He's so cute. And everybody so mean to him. And I was like, that man is not long for this world. And after they had the nice, charming dance, I was just like, yep, he's getting got. He's done. Or even

when, um, let's stop, this was the jelly roll. more in part where he points to the pianist and he's like, you're playing wrong and he's kind of like gaslighting him. And that says so much about who the stat is. The only humans that he recognizes as having

work are humans with some inherent talent that he can respect and that generally has to do with the music. And him being like, you're playing it wrong and then telling Louis after, no, actually he was fine. He was fine. But it told you

so much about who LaSat was. It told you so much about Louis being like, this is music that you can't understand. And that thing, by making it an interracial relationship, that wedge that is always between them, is that Louis is someone who's trying to always tell LaSot, there's a part of me that you just don't understand. You don't even want to.

You can't even fathom it. And Lestat feeling so angry and resentful of anything that Louis own. that is not his and like him having any type of relationship. It was so funny that any single time Louis was next to a black person, like when his former lover in the army comes back,

how does that get so, so upset when Claudia comes? It's not just bad that Claudia's this new daughter. He's mad that they share this thing between them, that is represented between them being able to communicate by line reading. I love,

loved how music was always leading us to these different storylines. Like there was always going to be something that happened when the employed music in that big way. Even in the series, uh, season finale, when Lestat and, um, when we have that big dance, they finally reveal that like, we're not just the weird, uh, the weird guys who lived together were gay. Like, I was just like, music was always had something narratively to say. On the queerness front, like, that idea that, like, that idea that,

like everyone knew, but like they're like, now we're going to strip you of any plausible deniability, right? We're going to like make out right in front of you. And now, now we can't even like, no one can exist in the comfortable lie of like who we are, what we're doing here. And I love that idea that you sort of raised earlier about Lestat and the way that he can pass both as like a white man, but as a bisexual so that he can have a, he can like make out with a woman in, you know, in the club or whatever. And that's something, again, Louis as a gay man, a man who does not have sexual interest in women, like he doesn't have that ability to pass on any front, right? But Lestat can move through a different echelon

of privilege because he's white and straight passing and all that sort of stuff. I also thought it was interesting that Lestat by virtue of making him bisexual, how much he was trying throughout this whole season to reinforce gender-nors. norms onto Louis and like in the same way that um who was his uh who was Lestat uh Lestat's other lover I forget her name Antoinette

Antoinette Antoinette he loved Antoinette because Antoinette would do what he said. She was subservient every single way and it was so funny watching Lestat or sad come home and almost being

mad at Louis that he wouldn't be the doting wife who would just like shut up and not say anything and would not challenge him. It almost made him mad that he had an interiority of his own. It was like, I felt like throughout this whole season, the stat was he fell in love with a certain version of Louis for being this dangerous man who was passionate,

who always would do what he wanted to do was stubborn. And the minute that he turns him into a vampire, he starts to hate the very thing that made him fall in love with Louis in the first place. That was just such an interesting. thing way for this story to unfold. But I mean, the toxic romance, which is a staple of vampire fiction, is the way that Sam Reed,

you brought this up at the jump, and it's so key. The way that Sam Reed gives us a little stat where we're like, I hate you, but I get it. Like, you're awful, but if you looked at me like that, and like I love how they constantly have a wind machine on him, like, no matter where he is, his hair is, like, blowing back.

I'm like, I get it. Like, he's so charming. He's so handsome. He's so intelligent. He's so all these things. He does adore Louis and is completely awful to Louis at the same time.

Let's just say this. They do not make performances, like what Sam Reid does as LaSotid anymore, just the incredible amount of sex appeal that is dripping from this performance, where I was just like,

Nah, like, this is like some peak 90s rom-com shit. Like, you were just oozing sex of you. Like, whatever, like, he would be doing the worst shit imaginable. And like, when Louis, like, would go back to him, like, I get it, dog. Like, I get it, bro. Like, I understand. I understand. I get.

And so much of this last episode, again, they changed a lot about, you know, the other changes that we didn't mention yet is that Claudia is, like, aged up slightly. She's, you know, when Kirsta Dunn's plays her, she's like 11 or something like that. in the book she's like six or something like that so they made her like 14 so they could cast like an actress in her 20s and like have her not have to do a child actor because if you cast a child actor as an immortal vampire

you know then they're not allowed to grow at all over the the offseason I mean to also to be fair I'm so glad they reached up Claudia because just why there was Kirsten Dunst did an amazing job in the 1994 movie but there is a level of like,

this person is still a kid actor. This is still a kid actor who is like 10 or 11 trying to play like 30, 40, which I'm just like, I. Yeah, no, no, no. Cirsten says a good job, but this is way better. And like when it first happened,

this actress, Billy Bass, who I've never seen anything before, that I can recall, she's playing Claudia like so juvenile when we first meet her that I like wasn't sure. I was like, is this going to be good? And then it was great because like as soon as she was just like a little bit

older inside that same body, then you're like, you really needed that initial, like, very immature performance to make, sell the rest of it. And I loved the finale because I loved a lot of the finale. I have some questions about the very end, which we can talk about a minute, but like, the way in which Louie is, like, the way in which Claudia can't tell Louie the whole plan, because she knows exactly how strong out Louis is on the Lestat juice. And the way in which Louis just like, they give Jacob Anderson the like full blown out pupils contacts for most of that episode because he's just like drugged out and high on the Lestat attention.

And the like tangible pull between the two of them and the way in which he like knows that he should kill him. But Claudia is the one who has to do it because like he can't really do it. I love that they brought it back to that because we've seen Lestat pull so much shit at this point that like in theory we should just be like super excited and ready for him to die but he's so charming and like the thing is like Anne Rice

in interview with the vampire the Lestat in that book is more overtly a monster than he be but she like falls in love with her own creation and she's still writing books about she was still writing books about Lestat until like 2018 Like she loves Lestat. Everyone loves Lestat. And so he does such monstrous things,

but we need to like, he gets his nickname of the Brat Prince. And so you need to be able to like still love him in a way. And the fact that the way that, Louis is so sort of hooked on him, I think helps us feel hooked on him even as he continues to do deeply, deeply toxic and terrible things.

I mean, to be fair, I think what the show also did well is that they did a very good job at showing you how monstrous Louis was in his own, right? Where Louis is this person where the first time we meet him in the past he pulls a night on his

mentally ill brother and you're like, oh, okay, sure. And throughout the rest of the show, by the time he goes back to his family and he kicks down the door, he scares his sister, but he also used,

the power being the executor of this estate over them, being like, this is my house. Watch how you talk to me. You start realizing the cycle of abuse, which I think also a lot of vampire stories, and especially this one, is that this is so much learned behavior where, spoiler, if you haven't watched the season finale, where it's like Louis was abusive to his own family, then he ends up getting abused by Lestat. And now Louis is seemingly back in another relationship where a more problem. powerful vampire might have some level of control over him.

I was just like, oh, okay, I see that, even though I have so many questions. Yeah, okay, so let's talk about that before we, before we wrap up. I do want to say shout out to maybe my, by the way, this is like a very often very funny show. And like, and everything should be funny is how I feel like, I don't care how gothic and overdramatic and whatever your show should be. should also be funny in my view. And so when Eric Begozian, as Daniel Moloi says multiple times, did you eat the baby? I was rolling on the floor.

When Louis is just like you hear the thrum of the pulse and the little chubby cheeks of the baby and we're all like, oh my God, is he about to eat that baby? And Daniel's just like, did you eat the baby though? So good. But okay, so the ending of this episode, I liked a lot of it. I love the Mardi Gras over the top opulence. Like, what a way to go out on the New Orleans storyline. Lestat surviving, a seemingly unsurvivable thing.

That's, you know, that's what happens. Like, that all works. Daniel calling Louis out on his bullshit. The gap between the story Louis telling and the facts that Daniel has in front of his face, like all this sort of stuff. But then we get this, like, quote, quote, twist that ends it, which is that this, you know, assistant. to Louis, who has been there the whole time, Rashid, is actually a vampire named Armand.

Armand is the character that Antonio Banderas plays in an interview with the vampire. He's a huge, huge part of the Anne Rice books. But when you're adapting something, and let's just say probably a huge part of the audience watching the show hasn't read the books, the Armand reveal, like the reveal that he's a vampire, which I sort of felt like was revealed when we saw him in the flashback in the 70s. We already kind of were like, okay, well, that guy has to be a vampire too, right? But the reveal that he's Armand, I'm like, I don't know that that's the big like, dun, dun, dumb moment that they think it is.

It was like my only, that and Jacob Anderson's pronunciation of DeVisadero in San Francisco were like the only two question marks they had about the season. How did you, like, you, a non, a non book reader hadn't maybe even seen Antonio Maderas do Armand yet. like how did that reveal sit with you? So I did before I, while I was waiting to get screeners for the season finale, I booted up in 1994 version.

So I saw Antonio Van deris and I'm just like, right, I guess that character's coming in. And then they ended the penultimate episode with the, dun, dun, done, Rashiza vampire. And I was just like, I don't know if that's as like, cool as you guys think it is. But okay, sure, like sure.

We got to season finale. And then once they did together, like, dun, don't, da, what you thought was true. He is a vampire. I was like, oh, okay. I sure. It's not how I would have ended the first season of TV. But yeah, all right, because this is nothing against the actor who plays Rashid,

but he just didn't get enough screen time. Or at least I wasn't. Pop, pop. Yeah. He didn't pop enough for me to give a fuck. So I was just like, he needed to have some level. And I also think what is unfair. What is unfair for Eddie actor is like Sam Reed gets to get so many scenes.

He gets to chew. He gets to cook. He gets to serve. Whoever Armand is, if you're going to be like, and this is Louis New Lover, has to have been built up. So we're just like, oh shit, two hot guys about to go at it. It's lit. And instead we're just like, oh, that's the guy who's just been like looking at Daniel Weird for the whole season. of being like, I hate you.

It felt a little laughing if I was going to be a hanger about anything. It's not a hater thing. It's like we loved this season. The very final note is just not, it didn't send me out on the high. I don't know what it would have been. Like maybe just like maybe we should have revealed that earlier, made it less of like,

I mean, I think it is cool for him to be like, AI can also fly. Actually don't remember what that's called. It's like the air gift or whatever it was called. Yeah, it's the gift of something. and I'm just like, just saying,

let me, it's fine. But then also, like, he can withstand sunlight. Like, that's kind of, you know,

when Daniel was like, but I saw you the sun, he's like, as we get older, we can be. And I'm like, that's cool. That's kind of,

that's kind of game changing and cool. But yeah, like, what's, like, for Louis to be like, this is the love of my life. I'm like,

after La Stat? I mean, my other question with that too, is just, does it kind of burst your bubble where I was like, they're not killing Lestat? I've already watched the movie,

but for people who don't, I'm just like, you should probably end not on a, yeah, well, it's already dead. I'm like, whoa,

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's actually the thing that I think would be the TV show thing to do is like,

how can they kill their most electric character in season two? Like, I'm back, bitch. Oh. Well, I hate,

I hate a fake out death on television. So I'm all for where they're like, no, he's not really dead. Don't worry. It's like, I'm still scarred from that year. where they tried to make me think John Snow is dead.

I'm like, I don't believe you. And they're like, no, really, John Snow's dead. I'm like, no, he's not. That's different. Vampire stories are different because vampire stories are built. I'm being like, your favorite character's dead. Next week, psych! He's back because he's a vampire.

That's what I love about vampire diaries. And I'm also realizing now, I'm just like, oh, wait, is Damon just supposed to be like broke boy with stat? Is that why I didn't realize that? I was like, oh, that's just the Lestat. I think also Spike on Buffy. Like, I think there are so many, Lestat is the blueprint for so many things that come after.

Oh, Spike is Lestead. What is happening? Is everything my Lestead? I mean, kind of. I, like, that's the template, honestly. So I'm, I, like, honestly, it's ridiculous that Sam Reid was able to, Sam Reid, who's Australia, by the way. Oh, I promised them when I would do accent quarter on this.

Jacob Anderson, who's British, I thought did a really good, like, you know, New Orleans. Wait, really? Yeah. Like, I thought his accent was really good. If I was going to pick, if I was going to pick Knits. My man Jacob, sometimes his New Orleans accent would, like, especially when he was a little younger, would go from, like, pick New Orleans to, like, dude, I'd meet at my barbershop at Brooklyn. He's like, I'm good. And I'm, what's going on?

Okay. Then I will pick some nits about Sam Raine. Okay, so here's my accent philosophy. If your accent is consistent, you're right. Jacob Anderson's accent wanders over the map and decades a little bit. But if your accent is consistent, I can just be lulled into the fantasy of what that accent is. But I heard from a couple like literal actual French people where they're like, I don't know what that accent is. That is not a French accent.

And I'm like, you know what? I believe you. I believe you a French person that this is not a good French accent, but it's a consistent accent. Sam Reid's Australian. He is consistently making the same vowel sounds. And so I'm just sort of like, I believe it. I buy it, whatever it is. His, you know, maybe this is what a French accent sounds like when you have fangs.

Who's to say? But, yeah, I, yeah, Sam read incredible, incredible stuff. There it is, though, after watching Tom Cruise have no accent at all. None whatsoever. He would just not try. Going to Sam Reed. Like, I was just like, I can excuse you if you sound like pepidly with you. It's like it's fine.

Also, when you look this good and you're just oozing this much sex appeal, the accent is important, but it's not the most important thing. Hot people can get away with a lot, guys. Sadly, this is a fact of the world we live in. All right, before we go, one last question. I didn't prep you for this at all, but I just was curious. Do you have like one moment of the season where you're like, this is, this is it?

I can't believe this is happening. What is it? I already talked about it, but this was the moment when the show went from something that I was just like, oh, this is cool to like, boot up perceives tv where's joe i need to talk about it when claudia because i'm with you in the in the first half the season claudia was getting on my nerves where i'm just like this is obviously like a 20 year old actress trying to act like 13 14 it's not working but then once she ages up

and like she's going toe to toe to mustache she's like you don't know where i've been car like i was like i'm in and then when they had like the the chess match and lestown is like, you can't win. And she doesn't do the last move. She just walks away. Like, that actress killed it. Let me get her name. Bailey Bass, like, oh, my God.

I was like, this is sick. You're not going to make the last move. And then when the stat is freaking the fuck out, I'm like, oh, my God, Claudia, Team Claudia, let's fucking go. Sorry, I'm being a dude about this, but I was so hyped. I love it.

What was the moment for you where, you're just like, oh, this show is the best. I mean, I already mentioned the like soft shoe routine, but also I want to say, I think it's episode, I mean, it has to be episode two. I think it is when like Louis and Lestat, it's either episode two or three, they have a fight.

It's two, I think. They have a fight. And then later, cut two later, they're closed coffins. And they start talking to each other in a real like, don't go to bed angry kind of moment. But the coffins stay closed. So you're just hearing them talking.

from their separate individual coffins. I died. I thought it was incredible. That was actually when, to your point, I think sometimes when people make shows that are supposed to be romantic or horny, people forget that so much of romance, so much of like sex and everything

is deeply embarrassing and can be very, very funny, especially when you have an intimate relationship with someone. And I think this show was so good at showing the fact that like, no, Lestat and Louie have to laugh with each other. They have to have the moments that are like in between the moments where they're like having sex or like smoldering at each other. And that scene was a perfect example of like, oh, no, they're a couple. This is what a real couple does after a fight being like, hey, can we not go to bed, mad, please? So yes, that scene, I was so chum.

Yeah. And like, and even like the early Claudia stuff where you're just like seeing them be like two dads. Two gay dads. And it's like one of them. like really wants the child and the other was like I liked it when it was just the two of us. I was just like, I know. Because that's the thing about the 1990. This is your pet.

That makes no sense. If they're not a couple, it is just two uncles raising this weirdo kid. When it's an actual couple, it is so much, so much the humor was like, Louis being enamored with his new baby and being like, I've never loved anything so much. And then Lestat just like pouting and being like, he used to love me. me this much. It was great. Okay. Well, that has been our love letter to interview with the vampire.

Tune in to see if I convinced Charles to watch The Witch's Show that is coming in January that is set in this universe. Let me tell you, you're my Willy Wonka. And like, anytime you're watching a show, I'm looking for the Golden Ticket, okay? That's how much I trust your recommendations. Charles. at the very least, Charles and I have a couple of things that we're going to collab on in prestige feed that I'm really excited about. And at bare minimum, I feel like we have to come back for season two of this show that we both love so much.

I am tapped in, Your Honor. Pod trip to New Orleans? Who says no? Not me. Okay. Call him a van. He will be decided. Yeah, let's get a fan.

Do you remember this is still the podcast, I swear. Remember when Steve was like, I'm going to New Orleans. It was like, oh, cool, you're going to my mom's house. She's going to make you some gumbo. We're just like, let it. Can never forget. I would love to meet Vans mom. And, wait, actually, I can't go to New Orleans because I'm going to start acting like a most stat.

And they will literally run me out of there. Okay. Well, the world is not ready for your smoldering look. I've seen it. I know the world's not ready. Thank you to Charles Holmes for doing this with me. Thanks to our producer on this episode, Jesse Lopez. and we'll be back in the feed with a bunch of other prestige TV very soon.

Bye. Peace.