The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Atlanta’ Season 3, Episode 10 Recap

Episode Date: May 20, 2022

Van Lathan and Charles Holmes break down the Season 3 finale of ‘Atlanta,’ “Tarrare.” They dive into the real-life story of Tarrare that inspired the episode, how this Van solo episode functioned as a season finale, and final thoughts on the season as a whole. Hosts: Van Lathan and Charles Holmes Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys, Rachel Lindsay here, and I am teaming up with your favorite Ringer podcasters to deliver the Bravo drama and news that you've been craving on morally corrupt. It's the show about all things Bravo. From the Housewives to Summer House and everything in between, we'll be mentioning it all every week. Check it out on Spotify and The Ringer.com. Welcome to The Ringer's prestige podcast feed. I am Van Lathen. join with Charles Holmes, the host of the ring of music show, Half of the Midnight Boys, P-Poo.

How you doing, Charles? I said, how you doing, Charles? Oh, shit. My bad, my bad. I'm missing a step. It's fucking 742 over here. I'm doing amazing. Are you, I feel a little sad.

I'm a little, you know, in my emotions. This is our last Atlanta pod until season four. How are you feeling, bro? I'm feeling great. By the way, I just want to let people know that what we're doing here on the Atlanta Paz since we've become a phenomenon. there's, I'm just to be honest with you guys. Like, there's a,

an indestructible team of pop culture analysis and criticism and appreciation. That team is Charles Holmes and Van Lathen. They tried to put us in a box. They try to say, man, y'all niggas can only talk about superheroes. Fuck them.

Like, we, like, we can only talk about superheroes. No, we talk about Atlanta. This is a ringer's prestige podcast feed about Atlanta. and it's me, Van Lathen, host of Higher Learning with Rachel Lindsay and Van Lathen and also Half of the Midnight Boys. We're here to talk about the last episode of Atlanta, season four. Season three.

Excuse me. Terrer. How you spell that? How you say that? Terraray. Terrari. Did you know Terraris is a real person? Who is that?

I had to look this up because the episode description was, yo, Terrari was a real person. Wow, they got to stop biting these better shows, though. So this was written by Stephanie Robinson. It was directed by Donald Glover. And I'm like, Tarare, who's Tarare? So this story is wild. So there was this, there was this boy who was French named Tararee born in 1772.

And he had this disorder where essentially he could never, he was never full. He would just keep on eating, eating, eating. They said like, yo, he was eating like, he would eat everything. got kicked out by his family because he could eat, I think, his body weight by the time he was 17 and his family's like, y'all, y'all got to kick. Did he gain a quote of weight? I guess so. So then he started hanging around with sex workers and thieves, just trying to feed himself. And when I tell you-

Takashi 6-9? Huh? He was hanging out with Takashi 6-9? All right. But this is fascinating. like because he could not fill himself, he started eating like live cats. He would eat whatever he could get his hands on,

like corpses. So, Charles, what the fuck are you talking about? I'm not like, type it to Rari right now, bro. What the fuck? I kid you not. Like, this is a real story. He was a French man. He was in the French Revolution.

And like, they were like, yo, you can eat so much. So they had him swallow plans for a war like dummy plans. And they're like, yo, go across X, Y, Z. We want to see if we can use you as a courier pigeon. He got captured. They beat him. He had to shit out the plans.

They beat him some more when the enemy captured him. This shit is wild, bro. Like he was eating like corpses and shit. I think he ate a live baby. He would swallow corks, stones, lives animals, and a whole basket full of apples. Snakes, lizards. to Paris where he worked as a street performer. What the

fuck is Terrari got going on? He was slim! At the age of 17 he only weighed 100 pounds. Yeah. What the hell? He sweated heavily. The cause of his behavior is not known while there are the documented cases of similarly behavior from the period.

None of the subjects other than Terari were autopsy, and there have been no modern documented cases resembled Tarari. Hypatiroism can produce an Extreme appetite, weight loss, profuse sweating, heat and tires and fine hair. Wow. He had

damaged amygdala. It is known that his injuries to the amygdala and animals cause polyphalgia. I don't know what the hell Tarari here. You thought I was wilding though. I'm trying to tell you a real story. I'm glad you looked up Terrari, bro, because I didn't look that shit up.

Really, the, so what people don't understand is this. So we're not watching this like you guys are. We're watching this on the FX press room. So we're watching this in screening stuff. So when we're watching it, we're looking at like the descriptions and we're looking like these little things

that they put out with the episode and those little quotes. And the quotes of the episode are so antagonistic. It's like, yo, like, they'll have the little quotes and it's like, this episode is this, this episode is that. I've stopped paying attention. So I didn't even look up Tarari, but I'm glad you did, bro, because now I am freaked

out. Now, you know, I'm not Tarari. I'm not him. I look at a donut and I gain five pounds. You know what I'm saying? I'm not too. Wait, can I tell you, like, because I work out, man, I just weighed myself. Would you wait? I was like, damn, man. I was looking at myself.

You're getting swollen? I don't know. It better be muscle. You know what I'm saying? It better be muscle because if not, man, the gym ain't been working. You've been doing your thing. I can tell, I can look at your shoulders right now. I tell that you lift the weights.

Your shoulders is getting, you getting diesel. Let me tell you what's going to happen to you, Charles, after you finish getting diesel. You can't handle the diesel, bro. What are you talking about? you're not going to be able to handle the diesel. It's niggas that get diesel. They get like super diesel. They can't handle the diesel.

It's like some people that's been big. Like for me, for example, I can handle the diesel. I've been big all my life. You have the frame of a football player. When you get diesel, you're going to start stunting on people. You are. I can already tell you right now. Oh my gosh.

Am I going to be Drake? The minute Drake got like diesel, my man was going to everybody like shit in on the meal. Drake. Drake was the nice. this guy and rap. And then he started deadlifting. And then after he started tail lifting, all he wanted was problems. It's like, yo,

the testosterone is poison in his brain. And that's what's going to happen to you. Like, you can get diesel. All of a sudden, you're going to be going crazy. Lightskins, light skins can't get diesel. We don't know how fucking air. They shouldn't. Think about it. Of all the black guys that have been

like Mr. Olympia, has any of them ever been light skin? No. You know why? I haven't been light skinned because when a light skin guy gets that diesel, he becomes problematic. Okay, we have to get to the show. Let's get to the episode. Okay. So, Tarari is the name of the episode.

It's written by Stephanie Robinson, directed by Donald Glover. And it is a single van episode here. Van and, first of all, I just want to tell you, I love this episode. I don't know if you liked it, Charles. I was in love with it. It might be my favorite episode of Atlanta ever. I'm not going to lie. It might be my favorite episode of Atlanta ever.

I loved it. It is a single episode on Van. It kind of answers the question of where Van was when Erner was texting her. Apparently she was in Paris acting like Amel. And taking people on wild adventures that have to do with cannibalism, Alex Scarsguard, all kinds of different shit. It is a weird episode. We did not see Earn.

Bullshit. We saw Erner the country thing. We did not see Paperboy or Darius in this episode, which essentially means that New Jazz, episode 8, was the last time we saw Earn a Pepper Boy. Okay. The season is over. There's no time for Atlanta to completely have all the crew on the screen at the same time.

This episode is heavily about Van. So the show has planted its flag in, the dirt or the sand, that it is going to be only loosely connected to the characters that we've come to know and love for the last two seasons. Charles, your thoughts on that? I think that this was a great episode of Atlanta in a vacuum and a very, very disappointing episode of TV in terms of like a season finale. This episode is wild. We'll get into the plot. I think getting an episode with Van, what she's up to.

There were so many twists and turns. Like, I loved, I loved the comedy of this episode. It was a fable. It was a fable. Yes. I love that. Like, I love that part of the episode.

But, like, I gotta keep it real with y'all. It just, as a season finale, I feel like it shot itself in the foot because I just want these four people on on screen together. It's not that hard. Like, I could be like, come on, man. Like, I could be like an artsy, farts. critical ass

motherfucker but like bro, come on man. Like sometimes you just want to watch Seinfeld and have all four people in the same apartment. You know what I'm saying? Not sometimes. All the time.

Let's talk about that. So I was recently watching the Empire Strikes Back. And watching the Empire Strikes Back for a lot of the movie, you know, Lukasoff doing his thing or whatever being Skywalker.

But for a lot of the movie, you get Hawn Chewy and Leia together. That is meaningful because the dynamics between these two characters are really the reason why you're watching the movie. And so for Atlanta, the question becomes whether or not

the dynamics between the characters actually matter because it seems to me that the writers in season three don't think they matter. They don't think that as an audience, we have to see Van, Earn, Al, and Darius, on screen and interacting in some dramatic way for us to enjoy the show. The great

question of season three of Atlanta is whether or not you even need these characters for the show to be Atlanta. I enjoyed this episode. I enjoyed looking at the lead of this episode. The Candace character. Beautiful.

Like, distractingly so. Like distracting. I was like, oh my gosh. You are so beautiful. And I enjoy, watching black women have an adventure in Paris. A cookie adventure. I can't tell you how much I like watching black women have hijinks. More hijinks for black women.

And watching these characters have hijinks was great. But it was a distraction from the fact that the reason why I watched the show wasn't in this show. How did it work for you, Charles? So I was talking with Chris Ryan because Chris Ryan hit me up immediately. From the watch? Yeah, he hit me up. He was like, yo. Have you seen this finale?

And I'm like, y'all, I'm watching it right now. And. Wait, so he didn't, he didn't hit me up. Fuck. Because you're busy now. You missed a documentary. I can barely get hold of you. Come on, man.

But he said something interesting where he was just like, at the end of this episode, a French man gets pissed on by a black woman. And Chris was like, is this a metaphor for how the Atlanta writers room and the Atlanta the creators feel about the audience for us constantly being like, we want the four people together. We, Atlanta's this. Why don't you give that this, us? And I took that one step further.

And I was just like, because I was asking myself, what was the point of Tarare as a season finale? And I came away with it as potentially being a metaphor. Van is trying to find herself. Van is trying to be Amelais. She's trying to live this life. She's trying to be her. her best self. But back in Atlanta, there is a child. It's something that she has to take care of.

Wow. And everybody in her life is like, yo, why aren't you back there? Why aren't you back there? Go back there. That's where you're supposed to be. And Van, almost spoiler alert in this episode talks about, um, almost having like suicidal thoughts, um, driving on the wrong side of the road, not wanting to live. anymore. And what I think this episode metaphorically is about is what happens as a black person where you want to be your best self, you want to be a new type version of yourself when you're successful. But everybody's asking you to go back somewhere else because that's where you belong. That's what we love. Go do the thing that we love. And I think that's a beautiful metaphor for the episode, but two truths can be, can happen at the same time. I think that could mean that this was a

great episode and a great metaphor. It could also mean it's disappointing in terms of a season finale, just structurally. Interesting. So this episode's written by Stephanie Robinson. Obviously, that is a black lady. It's not obvious. I don't know why I say it was obvious. But what I'm saying is, I enjoyed this episode because it was black women about town having

the freedom to do ill, weird shit. Yeah. And I think what this season of Atlanta has tried to do is disconnect us from a narrative that we're comfortable with. The writers of the show are actually trying to make us uncomfortable. There's been some talk about whether or not they're trying to antagonize the audience. I haven't made

in mind on that, but I certainly know that what they're trying to do is disconnect us from the comfortable mode of television that we're watching. As a season finale of Atlanta, season three, does it work? Maybe not. Does it work as an episode of television? Resoundingly, yes. And the reason

why it works for me is because what I saw was someone struggling to find themselves or struggling to come to terms with who they are, being someone else. And I can tell you right now, as a black man or as a black person in America, so many times you struggle with being someone else. Who do you need to be in order to fit into the situation that you are in? This episode starts with Candace, who is a friend of Vance from Atlanta. telling her friends that she has to piss on a guy for $6,000 to even be in Paris. So in order to be in Paris and bring her friends with her,

she has to piss on the man. She has to do something in order to be there. That tells you right there. She's okay with doing it, but that is what we have to do as black people. As black people, sometimes in order to be where we're going to be, we either have to piss on someone or piss for someone. Hey, let me see what you can do.

Pull it out, piss for me. Show me your blackness. Be on display for me so that then you are qualified to be in this place that is beautiful, that is gorgeous. So a lot of the rappers

that go to Paris on tour, wherever they're at, they have to be qualified to go there. Blackness sometimes is having to qualify, to be qualified to go someplace

that other people go just for fun. So we don't have the means to get to fucking, even a place where we're from, Botswana, Ghana, South Africa. We have to qualify to go there. You know, we have to qualify to go there. We have to sell parts of ourselves that people want.

There's some freaky French guy somewhere that likes to be pissed on, not king shaming. So she has to piss on him in order to get her friends to Paris, one of the most beautiful places in the world. Van is in that place. And what she's done to get there is completely give up any sense of who she is. she is being a different person. She is literally serving people with hands

that they are eating and exacting violence on them. She's forgetting about her daughter, which tethers her to who she is, right? She's living a completely different life in order to fit in there. The question that the episode asked the audience to me is who is she willing to be to be in a place to where she feels in a certain way?

As a black person, sometimes these are the questions that you have to ask. And these are the things about this. show that I always gleaned from it. I always gleaned from the show. It's like the show is asking, is the definition of blackness that we've come to be comfortable with? Is that definition that we can endure with?

Is the definition of blackness that we've come to put our faith in? Is that a definition that even fucking works for us? Charles. So she's there, right? You know what I mean? And she's doing her thing. but is this even working for her? She's still sad.

She beat somebody up. She had Alexander Scars Guard, one of the hot men, sexy men of the world, wanted to strip for her and her friends. Her friends are into it. They don't know yet. At the end of the episode, one of her friends is initiated into this

because Candice doesn't want to piss on somebody, but she pisses on them. Sometimes we have to piss the masses. We have to show our breasts, we have to show our penises, you have to show our butts, We have to show our pain to get to these beautiful places in the world. And Van has had to show all of that.

Not only has she had to show that, she's had to feed them to themselves. She's serving hands. This is a weird, fresh type of cannibalistic thing. You know what I mean? She's playing the games that they want her to play. And while the episode isn't really connected to Atlanta in any type of way, it is connected to some of the frustrations that sometimes happen.

by being black in a world that makes you earn yourself, that makes you earn your place in their ecosystem. And I feel like it just showed you how much Van had sacrifice. And I completely agree with you. Does it work as an episode of Atlanta? Not really. Does it work as a weird, fucking whimsical, completely out there,

twisty, turny, episode of TV? I say yes, Charles. I say yes. Oh, as an episode of TV, I think it's a brilliant episode of TV. And if you even take it back to Terare, the title is something that I've had to work through recently. I think as black people,

there's a sense that you're always hungry. Wow. I think there's physical hunger, you know, in terms of just like not having generational wealth and having a fight for scraps. And I think there's that like metaphorical sense of hunger of trying to fill a hole that's never enough. I think you're at that point.

I'm at that point where we work so hard. We work so hard. We're like, damn, if I get this amount of money, I'll be happy. If I get this, if I get this thing at work, I'm going to be happy. If I get this, if I just get this next thing, I'm going to be happy. And then you get to it. You have Van who's looking at earn. with jealousy. Like, I have to be a black mother. I have to take care of Lottie. I have to take care of

our daughter while he gets to live his best life. She lives her best life. She's in magazines now. She's getting to live this life that Earn gets to live and it's just not enough. And it's like, I think that's what's powerful for me when I was watching it. That's why I was called Tarare. You can eat and eat and eat and eat, but you still feel empty. And I think that's such a black thing of like, I've had to talk to my therapist about it. Like, oh. do what? Like I've had to talk to my therapist. Oh wow. I'm going to be honest with you.

It's not like you said I have to fuck my therapist. No. I was like Jesus Christ. Man. Oh, my bad. Okay, go ahead. But I've had to talk to my therapist about that of like that feeling of like the thing I think that makes black people successful is the same thing that

destroys them is that that hunger is like that hunger of Michael Jordan, that hunger of of Kendra Clomar, that hunger of black people, of wanting to be the best, of wanting to be noticed, is the same thing that once you get to a certain level of success, destroys you, you're not happy, you're looking around at everything you built, and it's like,

why is this not enough? And I think that if you take that for the creators of Atlanta, they just wanted to make their amelie. They just wanted to live a life where it's like, we just want to do this thing. And as the audience, we're like, no, fuck that. Give us the other thing. Yeah.

Your hunger doesn't matter to us. give us the thing that we want. And as a viewer of Atlanta, I understand it in the way of just like, they didn't give me what I want. But as a creative, I can understand, like sometimes that's okay. You know what, you feel me?

So here's the thing about Amelie. I never saw that shit. Did you see either? I know of it, but I never saw that shit. You know what I did? I thought when they said, I thought they meant Chocolat.

Have you ever seen that movie Chocolat? I saw Chocolat. Yeah, I saw Chocolat. So, like, I never, so here's the thing about Amelie. I never saw that shit. And that's kind of the thing about Donald and his crew is that there are sometimes alienating. Nika, we didn't watch that shit. Like, I remember, like, I know that as a film guy, I'm supposed to have watched Amelay, but let's look, let's look at Amelay.

Amelay is So in this movie I have to watch it now because Van is Definitely being Amelay It's the same haircut So in this movie The movie came out in 2001 In 2001

God damn it made $174 million In 2001 this is not the type of shit that I was That I was fucking watching I wasn't watching this in 2001 I got to keep it all the way Gangsta a million percent movies let's look at movies from 2001 and this is the type of shit

so this is like movies from 2001 and this is and you know Donald Glover is Rcy Farsi like I am but I miss this one who knows this might have been a Stephanie Robinson joint let's see 2001 movies not another team movie Donnie Darko Maybe boy came out 2001, bro You got Donnie Joe Dirt legally blonde

Donnie Darko Exit Wounds Spirited Away How high came out, 2001? Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings. Bro, the mummy returns. Brough, all just aside, brother, the movie returns came out in 2001. I'm not fucking going to see Amelay, bro.

I'm going to be real with you. Oh, the Fast and Furious came out with 2001. Come on, man. Like, get off me, bro. Come on. Rush hour two. Beautiful mind. Hard ball.

How could the culture have seen Amelay when G-baby die? Don't bring up G-Bud. Training day, all of that stuff. So I didn't see Amelay, but. Now I'll watch it. And I guess as a film nerd, I should have seen it, but I'm sure of Finacy saw it. But now I'll watch it and I'll understand the connection to it. But in watching this movie, let me tell you why this movie,

watching this show, let me tell you why I enjoyed it. I enjoyed, once again, seeing black women in a whimsical journey of self. Candace thought that she was the person that was out there sacrificing things in order to show her friends Paris. Compared to Van, she hadn't sacrificed anything. Van was a cannibal. She was a thug.

She was a fucking, she was planting drugs on Alexander Scarsgard. By the way, the ability to get people to do cameos in this season cannot be overlooked. Scarsguard? Van spits in his face and Scarsguard goes into the bathroom. It starts jerking off.

And I'm like, they had to convince Scarsgaard. Like, you gotta give, like, I'm sorry, Liam Neeson Scarsgaard. Like, you have to have a certain level of just like, I don't give a fuck. Like, I'm just gonna do it for the culture. You feel me? Yeah. Can you imagine, like, all right, let's be real.

Could you imagine another black show in any other time period being able to convince some of the most talented white people of all time to be like, all right, rock with us. You feel me? No, Donald Glover has a hold on them. I love Scars Guard. I love him more now. I saw the Northman. Wasn't moved.

But when I watch this, I'm like, this is a guy who knows how the culture views him. It's, it's cast, it's perfect casting in that you cast someone to be who people might think that they are. And so you look at Scarsgar and you're like, is this guy a weirdo? You know, you look at him. I'm like, he's got to be a weirdo. That tall, that good looking, coming from a family. that's that talented. He's got to be a little weird.

You see him in, what's the joint on age, succession and you're like, he's playing that role pretty well. He's a weirdo. Yeah, it's true. You're tapping into something, my man. It's tapping into something.

So it works. So everything in the episode works. The central question of the episode, once again, is it works as an episode of television. Does it work as an episode of Atlanta? At this point, Charles, I'll ask you this question.

Do we even know what an episode of a episode of Atlanta is. We've had anthology episodes. We've had episodes that have nothing to do with the central narrative of the show. Paperboy has become the biggest rapper in the world

or one of the biggest rappers in the world during the time that we had a hiatus from the show. He became a rap superstar when we weren't watching the show. We knew him as a hot rapper, but now he's big enough to have a European tour. He's big enough to be on the scene. What is the show about now, Charles?

Atlanta could have done the easy thing where they're like, we're going to show you what happens when a rapper blows up. And to that, I would say, as a creative, I'm like, we've seen that. We've seen that. You can watch a biopic, bro. You can watch any other team show, any other movie, and they will show you about what happens when a rapper blows up. I think very, very few shows are like, here are the like the small points of success.

The most interesting thing that I've noticed as a journalist when I'm interviewing rappers or I'm hanging out with friends who tangentially are like in the music industry is that we never got in a show about how alienating and boring celebrity is. Interesting. And especially black celebrity is. Because anytime I was hanging out with a rapper, I was just like, there's so much downtime and everybody wants something from you. and everything in your life is simultaneously easier and so much harder. And you never, like, you never get a show that's, like, that plugged into, like, how much of a curse fame is. And I think that this show more than anything taps into that. And while it might, and because no other shows or movies do that, I think sometimes this show stumbles on its way, because it's not a blueprint.

If you want to make eight mile, go make hustle and flow, make hustle and flow. We got that shit. Now Atlanta's in charted territory of like, we're trying to make a show about celebrity, black celebrity, which is different than regular celebrity, but we're also trying to make a show about like how awkward that shit is because I'll ask you, Van, how much of your life, like, even as someone who's like noticeable, like people have watched you on TV for years and years and years. It's just like your life gets easier because you get more things.

but it becomes so much harder because like just normal shit that you used to be able to do you're like all right fuck like this person notice me now it's kind of weird i mean i'm not to that point yet but i'm into the point to where so the thing about it is there are levels of celebrity right so if you can walk down the street and just have people say what's up those people also feel like they can like ask you for jobs and stuff so it's like you know i'm to the point to where people notice me but notice me to put this him on. And I gotta be honest with you. Sometimes I just want to get a fucking bottle of water. You know what I mean? I don't know. Nobody was there to put me on. So I don't know how that goes.

Like, if you, like, if you want to meet Bill, I'll fucking do it just to annoy him. You know what I mean? You want to talk to fantasy? Hey, I'll do it just to annoy them. but like it is different also because there's a sense of community that we have. One thing about being in the community, this is what being in the community means to me.

We have a producer on this podcast, Jonathan Kerma, aka A.K.A. A.A. Little Spide. When we jumped on this podcast, he had a very tight shirt on with a chain. I'm telling you right now is that I looked at Kermen, I'm like, I feel you. I get it. Yeah. What community really means is wanting other people to do good. That's what community is. If we all live in the same place,

we have to maintain a certain amount of success so that our property value is high. If we all go to the same gym, we have to maintain a certain level of cleanliness and understanding and decorum there so the gym remains accessible. Community means I want you to do good, you want me to do good,

because you're doing good as you're doing good, it's good for me. Me doing good is good for you. Okay? I mean, this is the greatest segue possible to say, hey, guys, if you're listening to this on Friday, I want you to go over to the Ring Reverse feed. I want you to tap into Mint Edition, hosted by... Mitt fucking edition.

Jomey and Steve, it's going to be great if you've been watching Halo, tap in. If you have it, tap in still. Grace Podcasts is alive. If you don't listen to Midd Edition, you're not friends of the Midnight Boys. If you love the Midnight Boys, if you love the ringerverse, you have to listen to

Mid Edition or I don't consider you to be an ally. You're nothing to me if you don't listen to Min Edition. You must listen to it. So Go and Lue. Ring averse Feed this Friday. Ringiverse Feed this Friday, Mint Edition. Jomi and Steve, two of the most amazing people I've

ever worked with. Listen to that podcast not right now. If it doesn't chart, I'm not fucking with you. Straight up on God. Okay. Steve is C3. So what I'm saying is this. That's what community is, right? And so a lot of times as, you know, when you're looking at art and the way community is reflected in art,

what is the artist from that particular community trying to say? Donald Glover, in this episode, in this season of Atlanta, what is he trying to say? What is he trying to say about his vision of community? What is he trying to say about his vision of sharing? What is he trying to say? Number one, I think this is why I take away from it. Number one, community is chaotic. This episode is very chaotic.

But it's an episode that's really about a woman trying to find herself and understand who she is as more than a mother, as more than earns baby mother. She goes to parents, she makes her whole identity, has nothing to do with her child, has nothing to do with her proximity to earn, has nothing to do with any of that she's been able to make a community. complete reality for her that is completely separate from anything that we've seen of van in the seasons of Atlanta that we've worked. What does that freedom mean to her? What does that freedom say about her? Is it positive? Is it negative? No, it's just her. Who is she? She has a friend from Atlanta who's trying to remind her who she is. Is that even who she really wants to be? I think that's a question that women, particularly black women, have to ask themselves all the time. Is this role that society casts me in who I really am or who I really want to be?

You know what I mean? And that's like the point of this episode. Is all this shit positive? Fuck, no, it's not positive. The question is not whether or not it's positive or negative. The question is whether or not it's her. And that's the question she asked herself at the end of the episode, I felt. like, right? Beyond then, what we see from this season, and of course, dipping around

sort of things that we know to be true, that they couldn't get everybody together, somebody's off shooting internals, somebody's off shooting the harder they fall, somebody's off making music, so they couldn't get people together as much as they wanted to. The question becomes, what are they trying to say about this group? What does celebrity in fame do to people, niggas from Atlanta? How does it change them? How does it adjust them? you, Charles, let me ask your question. No. This is nuts.

For the definition of black that we know, once you start hanging on Amsterdam, are you even still black? Is this show even a black show this season? Is it even still black? I feel like the black, you know what I mean? Is blackness something that is all-encompassing

and extends as far as our arms can reach throughout the universe, or is it these finite series of rules that a culture on Twitter or in the barbershop or on a college HBCU campus get to make? What is it? And I feel like a lot of times,

and that's why the cutscene is so important, white urn comes into the cutscene. The question is, has Atlanta, is Atlanta even a black show at this point? Well, I think that's the thing that is like it's a double-edged sword, is that blackness changes depending upon where you are. And, like, my, like, my vision of blackness is different from someone who's from Africa,

is different if I, like, go to Europe. And I think that's what the show is trying to say. And, like, shout out to Julian Kimball, a friend of The Ringer, and he wrote this really, really beautiful profile of Stephen Glover. And I think it works in the opposite way, where Steve. is like saying that a lot of the season is about the curse of whiteness and how the curse of whiteness goes both ways. It's a curse for white people, but it's also a curse for black people. And we see that at the end of the episode with what the white earnest marks and our black earn getting

that bag. And I think what's genius about this show? And I think we're not going to really really be able to contend with it until we get the fourth season, is that it's asking us if we want to grow as humans. Oh, wow. Charles, talk your shit. If we want to grow as humans, how much does our conception of race have to continue to change? And our capacity to understand and forgive and for everybody to not be so kind of rigid

in their conception of race, because, like, I'm going to be honest with you. My conception of race changes with age and with, and sometimes I have to be kind of like jostled out of that a little bit of like, wait, why did I think that? Why did I think that this thing would make me black or this thing would not? You know what's funny? Can I say something real quick? Yeah. As you drop this amazing point, the only people who made me feel black are white people.

That's so true. When I'm around black people, I don't feel black. I feel like van When I'm around white people I feel black They make like America makes me feel black When I'm around my people

Bat Rouge When I'm around When I'm in Lambert Park I don't feel black I feel loved And respected And value It's not black

I don't feel black I feel like me I feel black When I'm around people who aren't black I'm a feel I feel those differences when I feel that uncomfortable ability

that exists and try to exist in circles that don't look at me as van. You know? Oh, I always tell people. I always tell people, I'm like, yo, the crazy thing about being black because I don't wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and be like, yo, you're black. It's not until I leave my front door

that some shit happens. And the world, America reminds you. I'm like, no, you're still a nigga, bro. If I'm going to keep it real Like like what to your point When I'm at home for the Christmas for holidays And I'm with my people I'm not like oh I'm black

It's like I'm a human Like these people love me for me Right I'm a god I'm a dude Hey bro where you're from I'm from Bat Rouge What's that like?

Okay well I'll explain now What Bat Rouge is like To the guy from L.A Or to the guy from Philly To the guy from New York To the guy from Miami To the guy from New Orleans Which is right up the street

But like When I'm outside of that, that's what I feel black, bro. I'll be honest with you. And that's, I think the beauty of this season, even if it's uncomfortable season, is it's asking us, what is blackness? What is being from Atlanta when you are outside of that? And I think that's why this season is so hard to get your arms around is because, like, this is uncharted territory in terms of like, imagine if, imagine if Seinfeld, like, a show like Seinfeld was trying to contend with these problems.

I think that's what makes Seinfeld classic is it didn't have to, but I think sometimes things like, the thing that we have to remind about black creators is they have this responsibility that sometimes is very, very confining. And this episode more than anything is, I think, an active them saying is like sometimes I just want to go make my amelie. Absolutely. Sometimes I just want to do a weird story. story, and I don't want it to be a weird black story.

I just wanted to be a weird story. Let me ask you a question. No. Did you like this episode of television? Yeah. Not as a season finale of Atlanta, but as like a TV show as like, let's put it this way.

If this, like, if this was like episode four or five, I would be talking about like this. Like it's one of the best episodes of Atlanta. So in a vacuum, like, yo, dog, they were eating, they were frying hands. Like this shit was wild. Like here's the thing like I want movies like this.

I want movies where like I'm fucking with it. Like four black, four black women can just have like crazy hijinks in fucking France. You know what I'm saying? Like that she's wild. Like that was great. I want more of this. It's just the way it came in the order of the season kind of takes you out of it a little bit.

And like this didn't give me what I want. But yeah, like come on then. You can't tell me you weren't a little bit entertained by everything that happened in the song. I loved it. What did you want? I want more, I want those four people. And I know that sounds so, so, so reductive in terms of the way we talk about TV. But dogs, sometimes I just want to watch the office and watch, like, all of my favorite characters be in the same room and just, like, shoot the shit.

When I watch Friends, that's what I want. And as much as Atlanta is not those shows, sometimes it just is. My favorite episodes of Atlanta are sometimes watching Paperboy. and Earn and Darius and Van together and I don't think that this season gave us that that's fine we can like

and that's fine it's just it's a little bit of a downer. So I'm going to make you, so last question last thing I'm going to make you because we have enjoyed

this season for the most part but some people are not fucking with I'm going to be honest with you. A lot of people ain't fucking with it. It's cool. A lot of people ain't fucking with it. It's cool. What do you think will work for season four of it, which we know to be the last season?

I think for, I think Atlanta season four to stick, it just simply, simply needs to give us the V's for people at, at more of a clip. I just think that because this is the last season, we're not going to see these characters. characters again on screen like this. I also think the unfair thing that the four season of Atlanta has is that it's really, really closing a chapter on a certain era of black TV. We don't have insecure on anymore. Atlanta's about to finish. We got this era. I would put Jordan Peel in this, even though it's movies. We got this era of black content that's ending now. That's not saying we're not getting black content anymore. It's just going to be different. And I think Atlanta needs to kind of stick that landing in that way of like, hey, all of these people are stars. We know that.

But if we're never going to see these four people on screen ever again, we're saying goodbye to a family almost. You know what I'm saying? And that's what I kind of need. I want it to feel like, all right, I got it. I got to say goodbye to these people. So many people that we had these emotional, I don't know about you. This might sound corny. I think Atlanta, as much shit, is I might give like Donald Glover and all this shit. I do think like Atlanta showed me how much was possible. Oh, absolutely, bro. You know what I'm saying? showed me how much like how much farther we can reach as like a culture when we make shit. The fact that we don't have to be confined, absolutely. Exactly. And I think for the last season of Atlanta, I just want that feeling that I got

those first two seasons of of proving to me as a viewer, like as a black creative, you don't, you can do more. We can be we can be we can be weirder and I'm not saying it's the first black TV show or movie that proved that to me but it was happening at a time and at such a clip that and I grew up

at it at a time where I don't think I would be the same person I'm the same creative pushing the same boundaries if I didn't see what these what all of these talented individuals did and be like all right I'm hungry now. Absolutely I'm tararee like dog I'm hungry I want to make my own Atlanta

You feel me? Fantastic. You know what, Charles? We're going to leave it right there. Torari, we dug it. Overall feelings of the whole season. I feel like we both liked it, but we feel a little smacked in the face by it.

Is that fair to say? That's fair, but sometimes that's cool. Sometimes love is hard. You ain't always going to have nice days with your boo. Sometimes, you know, it gets rocky. Yeah, yeah. So that's it. Ringer's Proceed TV.

Maybe we'll be back for C's. Season four, who knows? We will. It's not maybe. Please go watch, listen to Ben Edition. On Friday, we will be back to cover Atlanta season four. The question is, what will season four be? Will season four be a continuation of the adventure

with all of these characters that we come to love? For season four be another hyper-artsy adventure into the surreal mind of Donald Glover and his writing staff, We'll have to watch and we'll have to find out. But either way I'm here along for the ride, I love it, but for one time, I understand why people might not. Season 3 of Atlanta is a rap, Charles.

I love talking about this stuff with you. I hope that people come and watch you on the ringer music show. I hope that people come and watch me on Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay. I hope that people listen to the Midnight Boys. Poo-Pew! Pee-Poo! Our producer has been Jonathan, Little Spidey, Kerma, who has an event to go to after this.

He's getting it popping. He's getting it in. Ladies, ladies. Let's lock her down. All right. Yo, just end the show, yo. Just end the show. We're not doing this.

We don't end the show. We talk about the fact that you look like Tupac circa 1999. Like Kerm. Look at Kerm. Look at Kerm. So seriously, though. Yo, shout out all of the producers.

Shout out Dev. Shout out. Shout out Steve. Steve. Everybody who's like chipped in to help make this podcast possible. Yo, thank you so much for taking it. This show is very important to us and you producers are very important to us. This podcast network of the ringer doesn't work without the producers.

So we're very appreciative to you guys. We are out. Peace. Peace.