The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Atlanta’ Season 3, Episode 5 Recap

Episode Date: April 15, 2022

Van Lathan and Charles Holmes dive into the fifth episode of ‘Atlanta’ Season 3, “Cancer Attack.” They talk about what they believe the show is saying about white fans of hip-hop, the cause of Paper Boi’s creative block, and more. Hosts: Van Lathan and Charles Holmes Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, it's Dave Chang here, host of the Dave Chang Show. You might hear me on with Chris Yang, Noel Cornelio, and a host of other guests. We've been on air for quite some time now, and it's changed over the years. But one of the things we always try to talk about is what's delicious, how to be a better eater. And you might hear me rambling incoherently, contradicting myself every five minutes. We talk about some sports and culture and all kinds of other things, too. I think we're the most expert opinions you'll ever hear about anything. Check us out if you haven't before on The Ringer Podcast Network. Crack a Cayman Jack Margarita with real lime, blue agave nectar, and real margarita taste. Taste your escape. Cayman Jack, America's number one margarita. Camden Jack is a premium malt beverage with flavors.

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Find Ollie Sleep Solutions for the whole family at ollie.com. That's OLLLY.com. Welcome to the Ringer's Prestige podcast feed. I am Van Lathen. You know what? That's messed up when I do that. You're supposed to introduce your co-host first and then yourself. Joining me from the Rigger Music Show and The Midnight Boys, A Poo Poo Poo, is Charles Holmes.

I am Van Lathen of Higher Learning with Van Lathen and Rachel Lindsay. And, of course, Midnight Boy, Poo-Poo, we are here to talk about episode four. What's episode five? This is episode five, but this is a halfway point of the season. Half a point in the season, episode five of Atlanta. Cancer attack is the name of the episode. Now, we're picking up back with Earn and Paperboy and Darius and Sox. Darius and Sox.

After we left them, after the sublime episode for the big payback, we are now back with the crew. And this episode is centered around a missing phone. right. We're in Budapest. As we're in Budapest, Paperboy has a show. By the way, more insight into just how big of a rapper Paperboy has become. Very interesting that he is to the point now where he is on like a make-a-wish kids list. What did you think about that? Oh, I thought it was, it was very interesting. I think the genius thing that they did

with the season in the second episode when we get reintroduced to everybody is they play that trick of like, oh, this isn't his first European tour. This is his second European tour. So what we're seeing slowly through this season is Earn as a manager is way more competent. They all have more money. Paperboy is more successful than we've ever seen him. And it's like Earn says something to the effect of like, hey, I didn't know we were this popping in Budapest. We might have to come tour this again.

So him being big enough that a make a wish kid is just like, I want to meet him. really does kind of paint to you that like what would he be comparable to? Would he be comparable to like a Rick Ross? At this point at like a Teflon, Ron Rick Ross, maybe at this point, maybe one wrong under?

Maybe. Is he, at this point, is he like a young thug? Hmm. You know, it's hard to say because, but maybe a Teflon Don, Rick Ross. Maybe he's the... Wait, actually, no, because he hasn't got the JZ verse yet. I can tell he hasn't got

the JZverse yet. Well, but Rick Ross had the JZ verse because he was on Def Jam. All right, true. You know what I mean? Like he was like, Jay Z was the president of Def Jam. I'm not saying that Ross wasn't big enough for the JZ verse, but, you know, they were also like pals and stuff like that, you know. So, yeah, so this episode, which is written by Jamal O'Lory, is one that's difficult

to peg for me in its intent. I liked it. I liked it. I thought it had some of the funniest moments that we've seen in the season thus far. And we're going to talk about a couple of those. But essentially what happens is Paperboy does a show. There's a weird occurrence before the show that he does. And after that, he realizes that his phone has been stolen.

He's lost his phone. And the rest of the episode is them trying to peg who has stolen the phone. They think that they have the guy. They endeavor to interrogate him. for a large portion of the episode, as he is just weirder and weirder and weirder. And then, of course, there is a huge twist at the end of it. I guess this is what I'm trying to figure out.

I'm trying to figure out, although I liked the occurrence and the happening of what was happening, I like the fact that we got a really, a couple of really funny moments from Sox and this. really funny socks of like super funny and some other things that are really super hilarious too I'm trying to figure out maybe it's not a fair thing to do to the episode

but I'm trying to figure out what the point of the episode was I mean I think here's the thing this season of Atlanta has been difficult I think it's been as ambitious as ever I've had a lot of fun there's still funny moments it's still, even Atlanta, when it takes dip, is still one of the best shows on TV.

But I think this episode kind of illustrates the struggle of it in this season, in terms of like, can they recapture that magic that we've seen in season one, season two? Because we know the tricks now. The reason we know the tricks is because people have watched Dave, they've watched reservation dogs, they've watched all of these different shows Southside that are spears. spiritually indebted to Atlanta.

So Atlanta's trying to do all of these different things now to stay fresh. And I had to watch the episode twice. Can I pitch you on what I think the point of the episode was? I love it. Wag, wag, wag. Go. All right. So we get three versions of Paperboy fans in this.

And what's interesting is that the three versions of the fans are all white. We get the young cancer patient who, when Erne thinks that he stole the phone, this guy is cool having the cancer attack and like his parents are worried everybody's worried and he's like stop I'll do anything for paper boy then we have the second version of a fan which is socks he's the white dude

every like I feel like every black person has met a white dude who like wants to be down so bad like he's cool like he's funny he hangs out but he wants to be like he wants to be a boy like he wants to be with us and you see kind of like the

complications of that. He's the second type of fan. The type of, and I've interviewed a lot of rappers, the type of guy you pick up on tour and you're like, how did this guy get in the crew? Like, why is he here? He's the hanger on. And then the third and the most important fan

that we see is the Paperboy Stan. This is the fan that thinks, doesn't empathize, doesn't sympathize, as he says, but feels the same as Paperboy. He is the, and That is the complicating factor of their, none of these fans can really understand Paperboy because hip hop is a black art form.

But they all go like go through their different kind of journeys of like, no, I understand Paperboy. I understand what he's saying. And that complicates it when you're like a white fan trying to understand a black art form because there's only so much you will ever get. You can always be a fan, but there's always going to be that percentage point where it's just like, no, this. is inherently a part of the black experience. So that was expertly put, by the way. So in, I'll interview you now. So in hanging out with those three different types of fans,

what do you feel like the episode's intent is on us as far as it relates to learning about Paperboard? What do you think those three different fans tell us about the characters who are driving the show. So I think we have to remember that Paperboy is geographically, far from home, but also socially, economically, far from home.

And if any of these fans were any different type of race, a lot of it would have landed differently. And I think what we're realizing is, is that Paperboy reveals, he hasn't recorded, any music in seven months. Right.

He has a huge revelation, yeah. He has this creative block. And the reason that he wants the phone is because he finally captured a melody, captured a moment. And he says, like, I don't even know what's good and bad anymore. And he finally gets through that creative block. And I think the reason that that creative block is happening is because the closer that Paperboy gets to success and the further away he gets from who he is as an artist.

And that's being reflected here. Wow. And that shit happens with our favorite artist. That shit happens with like a hove. You know what I'm saying? Like when you listen to a Jay record in 2022, sometimes you're like, oh, he's rapping about art. He's rapping about everything he owns.

And it's cool. Like Jay's like the greatest of all time. But there is a sense of like, oh, once your favorite rapper crosses that threshold, what it happens to like a young thug, a baby, a Wayne, there's a certain part of them that they leave, that part that struggle that, oh shit, that they're capturing the black experience.

And I think that's what the episode is trying to grapple with. I agree. I disagree fundamentally about the Jay-Z thing, but you're still right. Is that makes sense? I'm not saying, like some later day J-songs, I know, I think that just as an aside, that those guys expand the Black experience

as they continue to talk about things that they're coming in contact with as they, like, evolve out of the places they were. However, I do think, to your point, what we've defined the Black experience as, sometimes as the consumer, it gets difficult, more difficult to access. See, we don't think that art or we don't think, that real estate or we don't think that those things that Hull might be rapping about,

we don't think that they're the black experience, but we're actually wrong. Like, all of those things are accessible to us. All of those things should be accessible to us and all of those things at one point were accessible to us. So sometimes I feel like I appreciate guys like Jay-Z pushing us out of the comfort zone, but to your point, you're still right. You're right, but I disagree with the notion. you're right.

I know, I think I think you're completely right in the fact that like, what Jay's rapping about is laying a blueprint of hip hop is such a young genre. We have yet to get a Beatles or Rolling Stones

where it's like, yeah. Yeah. But I think the thing that I always crash up against with Hove is like, I remember when, you know, he partners with the NFL. When all that, no, no, no, no.

And when he's like trying to rap all that, like shit, and like there's always that thing where I'm just like, oh, yeah, Hove is he's dealing with different shit where it's like me on the ground as someone who doesn't have money. I'm like, no, fuck the NFL. Fuck what they're doing to these black players, these black coaches. And Jay is like pitching him his version of just like, no, to change the system. I got to be within it. And I'm just like, I fundamentally disagree. But also I'm not a billionaire. And these are the problems that we're going to start seeing Paperboy go through. Yeah. And I know that for sure. And I think this episode lays the groundwork. And I think the funny thing that we have to remember about Sox is that at one point Sox almost says the N word. And like it's this, it's played for laughs.

Oh, that is fucking hysterical, bro. Because he paused. Hold on, hold on. I want to say that the two funniest moments, there are three funny moments of this entire season. I'm going to stop right now to get where at the halfway point. the three funniest moments of the season to me. The first one is the actual visual of the three slaps to me in the first episode.

When the grandfather walks over, wait a minute, bro. That was so hilarious to me. When the grandfather walks over, slap, slap, slap. That was fucking hysterical. Nothing else in three slaps was funny. It was very scary. Oh, I disagree. I would say one of my top moments is when they're all,

the kids are all in the van, and like they're communicating with just their eyes. And the guys like, these white women going to kill us. And the girl's like, yeah, nigga, I know. What's the other two? So the other two, so there was funny stuff in all of these episodes. Funny stuff, by the way,

I've fallen in love with Nando's period, pair because of the old man in the tree episode. That's funny stuff at all of these episodes. But when Sox grabs the phone and goes full taken on the phone, I'm the White Liam Neeson. That whole series, that whole sequence. And then Al and Earn realizing that he said White Liam Neeson, and then this is what Atlanta does so good,

is they go back into their characters and they'll simultaneously themselves they're at the same time giving totally different energy. Ernest like yo did you mean Samuel L. Jackson? No, that little scene is already white that's hilarious and then when he

almost says the N word realizes that he almost says it and then gets the fuck down the hall. That's just fucking hysterical to me. I mean and I love how like they go back like Earned Darius and pay me boy go back to talking, but then they do like the black thing

with black friends, like they turn around, like, wait, do he almost say that at word? I was like, yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's like you'll be with you. You be with you. Because it just, it's such a small thing, but we're always on edge sometimes,

uh, as black people, waiting for the disrespect. We're waiting for it. And it, we, almost like we have a sixth sense for this. And when he goes there, he might as well just,

have said it, and he realizes and then he gets on down. I mean, I also think it's very funny that they're dealing with two crises with two different white boys. So it's like even though he almost said the N-word, it's the classic black person be like, all right, that's on the back burner. We don't get to that shit. We have to

handle this thing first. So let's talk about your second archetype of Paperboy fan, which is the Paperboy Stan, who is the gentleman in this that we are interrogating for so long. Is his name Willie? His name is, I believe it's Wiley.

Wiley. His name is Wiley. So let's talk about Wiley, brilliantly played. One thing about Atlanta that always gets me is how the performances in the show are consistently top-notch. Yeah. Like consistently top-notch. I'm looking at it and I'm like, Jesus Christ, who is this young actor? Like who?

Like who is he because he was eerie. He was disgusting. He was, uh, he was moving. I was moved by him at one point. He has to be able to be funny. He has to be able to sing.

Like, it's like what I liked about when they keep talking to him. I think that was the most electric part of the whole episode. Is that your opinion about him changes. The more that you learn about him. Like you're annoyed with him. him, you hate him, but there's certain moments where you empathize with him because he says something to the effect of, he connected with Paperboy because he got broken up with or a girl

in eighth grade broke his heart. He had to move. He listens to the first Paperboy mixtape. And like, that's when he's like, I felt the same. I felt like you. And it's such a kind of thing where it's just like, I felt this way sometimes when, and here's the thing, I, anybody loves hip hop, please, like do it. But there is a, there is a level of how much can you get hip hop if you're not black?

And I know that's gonna, that's gonna sound rough to the ears. But it's, it's the reality of the situation. There's some things like, even me sometimes, when I listen, I have to be like,

oh no, I don't get this. I didn't grow up like this. I didn't grow, like, there's a certain level of like, I can sympathize, I can empathize, but I don't feel the same. You know what I'm saying?

I listen to a little baby sometimes. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know, once again, you're right but I disagree all right why

why do you disagree Tupac used to have this song but he didn't used to have the song he does have this song he had this song called So Many Tears right Do you ever heard that record? No

back in the limitri Thrive don't misery Let me alone I grew up almost It's how my mind Couldn't find a place of rest Till I got that thug life Teddered on my chest

And I remember when I was At about 14 to 15 At my angstiest right when I started to like, Tupac was talking about in so many tears, he was talking about like how he realized that he was going to die and go to hell. And how everywhere he turned,

there was like nothing but bad stuff. Like she had so many tears, you know what I mean? So like he couldn't trust his girl. He saw violence all around. to him, all of that stuff, right? I didn't exactly have those circumstances, but my angstiness of

being at the time, and I was growing up in a very rough place, but my angstiness at that time and not feeling like I had any outlet at the particular time that me against the world had come out, like not feeling like I really knew what was going down, feeling like at every turn, I had a lot of anxiety, I was worried about the end, of the world because of nuclear war,

which maybe I should have just kind of like pause on that and picked it up now. There were so many different things that were concerning me that sometimes I felt like everywhere I turned there was bad news and like there was a, and I didn't feel that way because I felt like somebody was going to come get me

because I was involved in the thug life. I didn't feel that way necessarily because, you know, I was stepping over bodies when I, as it to the door, even though people in my neighborhood were getting killed, I just felt that way. And even though, and I think that's an interesting part about this episode, even though the experiences were different, like, feelings, all humans have the same feelings.

We have different experiences, but we have the same feelings. So if you're sad, it doesn't really matter why you're sad. And I think sometimes people don't get that. You could be sad. I mean, we always, what we want to do, as a way to both connect to people and a way to disconnect from them is we want to make feelings the same.

We want to say that your feelings if you are getting bullied at school are different than your feelings if you don't have any money. But they're really not the same. You feel isolated, but they're really the same. You feel isolated and alone. It's just one for, one is for much more,

serious reasons to us, right? And so I think that's what music does. I think I, when I was a kid, I empathized with Kurt Cobain. And I was living in South Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and he was way to fuck up in Seattle, like really crooning about white boy problems.

I mean, not to, you know, Kurt ended up taking his own life, I don't want to make light of that at all. Our respect. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to make light of that at, like, light of that at all. But, like, I still empathize with them. Now, I think what you're saying is what's interesting about this episode is I couldn't,

there are a lot of rappers out there that I can't identify with. Like, I've never in life, you know, savage the block and, you know, took aim at an op or sold a, a zip or a pack or any of those things. But the struggle that would make you want to do that, I feel like you can understand that coming from anywhere. You know what I mean? So my past, I think I talk about it differently because my past before I got here,

it was my job to interview rappers. And I learned that, like, I would look around Rolling Stone and I would be like, I'm like, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, know, interrogate this later. But when I looked at the black people, there were not many of us in the office. I'm like, oh, we're all of a type. We're all from the north. We're all light skin. The white people don't feel threatened. So when I would go, and a lot of times I would go down to the South, when I would meet rappers, there would be this tension where, like, little baby would call me Velma. Future would, like, clown me. He would be like, like, you look like the weekend. Because

there was this tension of, like, who is this guy? And, like, I would argue with the rappers. When I went to Atlanta with Little Baby, the reason that, like, I get how Paperboy feels is because me and Little Baby were arguing. This was right around the time he releases a song about police brutality. And he says something to the effect, like, we were arguing about like all lives matter and maybe all, all police aren't bad. And I was just like, hey, well, baby, like, it seems like you're trying to have it both ways. I think, like, to inherently change the police force, we're going to have to tear it down. And I'm talking about all this shit. And he's like, no, that's not true.

He's like, I've, I've experienced police brutality. I've had a cop beat me up. And they're still good cops. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't think there can be like good cops in a corrupt system. And we're going back and forth. And I realized, I was just like, oh, I'm talking about theory. I'm talking about the theory of like police brutality and what it would take to make a better police force.

And he's talking from experience. Like, I've had racist interactions with cops, but I've never been in jail. I've met like a cop has never beat me up. And I can sympathize with him. But there's a certain level of just like he's talking about an experience that's outside of my realm. And I'm just like me trying to come down here as a light skin black man from the north, trying to teach him all this stuff.

It's fundamentally flawed. Like it's just like, and I left being like, it's not your job to change little baby's mind. It's your job to try to understand him and sympathize with him. And even if I don't agree inherently with him, that's fine. And I think a lot of times it gets, you go one level above if you're a fan that's not black trying to be like, no, but I feel the same. That's what this stand of paperboys is like, I feel the same.

And I'm like, no, no, no. That's inherently flawed, I think. Like, you can sympathize and empathize, but like feeling the same is robbing somebody of their singular human experience. You couldn't be more wrong. I couldn't be more wrong. Even when you were talking to, even when you were talking to, to. to baby, right? That's your job.

It's your job to put, like, yeah, babies had it, I have been beaten up by the cops, right? Like, I have been beating up by the cops. I've been beaten up by the cops, like, but I've also had cops let me off when they should have taken me to jail. I got, Charles, one time I got

pulled over by the police and the policeman goes, son, you have, I was on my way to Best Buy. I was in my best by work. uniform. He goes, son, you're driving on, uh, expired license, expired registration, no insurance. He was like, this, this is totally illegal. But I see you're on your way to work. So I can only pray that you're trying to get yourself out of this sad situation at your go ahead, boy. He didn't say boy. He said, he said, go ahead, son. Go ahead.

head, get to work, and please take care of your business. It's the white guy, right? It's the white guy. And he let me go. That changes nothing. I mean, I'm glad that he did that. And I know that there are cops out there that are just trying to do their jobs. I think there can be good people who are also cops.

I don't know if there can be good cops. But that was the argument that little baby and I were having where it's like, I can't change his mind on that. But the point is, it's your job to try. And it's his job to, like, it's your job to try. And it's his job to reiterate to you that his experience is one of authority. He doesn't have all the answers and neither do you. Nobody has to, there's no rank to be pulled.

Like there's, like, like, no one can, you say you didn't experience police brutality. I disagree. Did you watch a George Floyd video? Yeah. You experienced police brutality. You're not a victim of it, but you experienced it. The emotion that you felt when you watched the video was real. So, like, you're not, you haven't been a victim of it, but you've experienced it.

Baby has experienced it in a level to where he's had so much contact with law enforcement that his opinion on it actually might be tainted. Because if you meet, like, if you meet 100 cops, I'm not saying he's met 100 cops. Of course you're going to meet a good one. But that don't change. You know what I'm saying? but like that doesn't change the fact that like the entire system

might be corrupt. So everybody's experience, everybody is equally yoked. It's the only time is when you try to claim authority over somebody's experience. But I'm talking about the I had to get the political thing because like everybody like here's a thing like

blackness to me or at least how we're treated isn't always equal. I understand that I have level of privilege, like being light skin. You know what I'm saying? And yeah, I've had cops like pull me over and like I'm in like a suit and they're like, is there a gun in the car? And then they just like start swarming the car. Like shit happens. But I realize that like...

That same year, the cop almost drew down on me because of a flashlight I had. The cop, look, he didn't almost draw down on me. No, he almost shot me. He did draw down on me. I had a flashlight on the dashboard that was a saber light that. My father gave me. The cop, a cop pulls me over. and he looks, he says, what's on the dash? And I'm like, huh?

I'll reach for it. He pulls his gun. I'm like, yo, it's a flashlight. And then I have a panic attack and they have to call the paramedics. So, so he pulled his gun on me. So we have to get back to the show. This is an interesting tangent.

We are, that's weird. No, we should really be called the tangent boys. But, but, but let me tell you, let me tell you what specifically I thought about, when I saw him, when I saw the, it's funny that you mentioned the senior circuit of rap.

That's what I thought about when I saw him talking to his stand. I thought about the Rolling Stones. I'll tell you why. A whole generation of rock music experienced by, like, inspired literally, literally by a handful of black performers.

Buddy Waters, Chuck Barry, Little Richard, all of those guys. A handful of black performers, even, you know, a horrible guy, but even early Ike Turner stuff in the history of rock and roll, like a handful of them.

And they take it and they take the emotions and they repackage the emotions through their cultural translation and then give the world some really great music, but then kind of, kind of use those artist as a stepping stone.

What got to me is when that guy started playing, he was fucking great. And it was a talent that was undeniable. The same as Mick's talent, the same as Lennon's talent, the same as Robert Plant's talent. Like, it was undeniable that he was great.

And the question is whether or not it's original or derivative, because it's coming, the inspiration is coming straight from Paperboy. Oh, shit. You know what I mean? It's coming straight from Paperboy. So he got, and so when I thought about that, I'm like, oh, then you even have the same thing.

And sometimes I feel like Europeans are even more inspired and, and. You could John Stone, Amy Winehouse. Yeah, like more inspired by black American music. and it feels like to your point earlier, when American artists do the same thing, it feels like they're doing karaoke. And it's not that the Brits don't, but for some reason maybe the history in the country

makes it feel a little bit more genuine when kind of like they do it. And this is not to diss, but Sam Smith versus Justin Timberlake, it feels different. Like, I'm not, I'm not,

I'm not, not, it's not here to shit on more, Justin Timberlake's socks and Sam Smith is, a little bit. Like, Sam Smith is Wiley.

Yeah, Justin Timberlake is, and by the way, you know, yeah. I don't mean to pile on Justin, because I'm actually a Justin Timberlake fan and I love.

Justin got some joints. I don't forget. Justin got a lot of great music. Like, yeah, right. But what he did to Janet was essentially he stole the phone. I mean, like, you. Can I also connect something really quick? Do you think this is going to be super meta?

But, you know, Donald Glover has had some choice things to say about Dave. Dave is a show that is very Atlanta inspired by Lil Dickie. That was all. I didn't see what he said about Dave. So tell me, yeah. My bad. So he was essentially in this interview magazine. piece that he interviewed

himself. He was talking about some comments he made about Dave on Twitter. He said something to the effect on Twitter of like, I see everything y'all are saying blah blah blah blah blah. And in this interview magazine, he explains the difference between, you know, high art and low art.

He explains the difference between like a smash burger and dry age waggon. I did see that. I did see that quote. Yeah. And he's kind of trying to not dunk on Dave by dunking on Dave by saying it's a good burger. Like, we know what that means.

And the reason I bring that up is because widely in that moment, he's talented, but he knows everything about Paperboy. He studied Paperboy. He studied all of his moves. He knows unreleased music. He knows everything about him. And then in that moment, he recreates a song

that Paper Boy is trying, like, he recreates a feeling that Paperboy is trying to express. And it sounds amazing, but it's not Paperboy. And part of me was just like, is this a little bit of like a meta shot at Dave where it's like you can look at everything Atlanta did you can understand everything that Atlanta did and it could be good

but it's not Atlanta what I thought that you're out look yo yo I'll be honest with you this nigga sneak dissing like we see you I didn't even put that man this is like a

Doing this paw with you is like a fact-finding mission. We're like two little moon nights in the Cairo Desert. Great Marvel show. Check us out on Charles loves it. We're like two little Mark Specters. Like, yeah, it's a little sneakdistance going on. Maybe. Maybe.

And also, let's talk about the, should we talk about the twist at the end of who had the floor? Sure. Let's talk about it. So they spent all this time looking for the phone. It seems obvious that Wiley had the phone, right? because of he knows the phone's number. He is singing songs and all of that. But at the end we find,

unreleased songs, yeah. At the end, we find out that Sox has the phone. The entire time, Sox has the phone. He takes the phone and he throws it in the trash. Now, you guys, we're spending a lot of time on the meat of the episode because there is another thread this episode where Earn is reaching out to Van and Van is not getting back to him. Okay.

So there are more things up in the air here in this season of Atlanta. Also in this season of Atlanta, you see just how good Earn is in this episode of Atlanta. You see just how good Earned has become in his job. And here, you can read me, talk about it more on Theringer.com. I wrote about Atlanta this season. I really want to touch quick on that earned part. I think another thing that we're seeing in this season is that in season two, the tension is that

Paperboy is upset with Earn because he's not a great, he's not a great manager. And like the whole tension is like, is Paper Boy going to get rid of Earn? And I think the underlying tension of this season is that the closer that they get to success, the closer that they become like that black, those black inhabitants under the lake

who bought whiteness, Earn is comfortable in this world. What Wiley says to Earn is like, Did anybody ever tell you that you talk white as a kid? How does it not feel being part of the group? And I think in that moment when Paperboy is essentially like, hey, we haven't talked in a while, you good? And like, Earn is too busy to talk to him. What we're realizing is that Earn is adopting better to this white, this new white paradigm than Paperboy is.

And now the thing has changed. Paperboy is afraid that all he will ever be able to do is rap. Well, Earn, earn now has a second client. He has that UK kid. Earn is really, really competent as a job. He's talking to all these white people.

He's talking to all these billionaires. And I think that's very, very intriguing. Like, you see that tension now. Super intriguing. Do you know why? And the reason why it is,

because by the way, when they ask, I'm from Baton Rouge, right? And y'all listen to me right now and y'all thinking, damn, that nigger don't sound like a little boozy. that's not how Kevin Gates talk

you know what I'm saying that's not how Webby talk that's not how NBA young boy talk that's not how Fredo talk you know and so you guys are listening to me so I've been on the other end of that right I've been on the other end of that

hey man you why are you talking white bro I never forget one of my cousins one of my cousins beat the shit out of a guy we were at the basketball court it's true story we're at the basketball court we're playing basketball right and, you know, I'm scoring, I'm doing my thing.

And this dude from Mayfair was like, hey, man, you're like an Uncle Tom. You talk like a white boy. Damn. You're like an Uncle Tom assing. We didn't know them. And my big cousin's like, yo, don't ever talk. Don't tell him that. You want him to sound like one of y'all be out here on the side of the road selling T-shirts for the rest of his life?

Damn. And I never get this. And they're going back and forth. I'm like 12. They're like going back and forth And all of a sudden, boom, he hit him. I'm like, oh shit! Like, what the?

And then he's, I never forget, beautiful guy, my big cousin, mouthful of gold teeth, just dragging this boy around because he didn't want me to associate talking like that or articulating myself. By the way, there's no right way to talk, guys.

Language is a tool. And wherever you are, if people can understand you, you're using your tool. And Earn went to Princeton, I believe. So, like, there's a thing about Earn that he's better at this than Paperboy because he's had to adapt to whites around. Which is my point. So Earn is finally, from having been probably like that guy said, Earn is finally making use of a lot of skills that maybe he didn't get the opportunity. to use when he leaves, when he left college. For guys, sometimes like us, who come from the neighborhood,

a lot of times you feel like an outcast there, but then when you get to some place like The Ringer, or when you get to some other place out there, you have to remind yourself that the person that you were on the streets of Baton Rouge is who you really are, right? It's like always remember to remind yourself who you really are because these other things like your love, your love of Star Wars and your love the way that you talk and all of that. Those are just things about you. But who I really am is a nigger from South Barrage.

That's just a fact. So it's, I took that from, from, that's going to be a challenge, not just for Paperboy, but a challenge for Earn. It's going to be a challenge for Earn to stay connected to Al because Earn's career is going to have a longer shelf life than Al's will. And Al talks about that in this. He's like, he didn't really want to rap. This is all he felt like he could do.

And like, I always tell people this. The thing that always made me feel bad as a reporter is I'm like, you know, my career is going to last longer than a lot of the rappers that I cover. it's just if you're in rap and you have a five-year career where you're hot you're an anomaly most people are not jz conier drake way and whoever most rappers get two years of hotness and then we never fucking hear about them again and i think that's what paperboy is afraid of armin can be a manager for the rest of his life paper boy can only be hot for a couple more years it's true damn we digging god damn and and before we go so deep No, we got to go back. We got to go back to the cell phone. I know.

No, because I have a theory on the cell phone. I have a whole metaphor for it. All right. Sox at the end of the episode tosses the cell phone. Now, in between this, we get some great stuff with Wiley. We get Wiley calling for the guitar. We get a Wiley fart joke. And it sounded like one of those bad ones too.

It sounded like when it just trickled out. Yes, stinks. It smells like a bag of Burger King. We get Wiley. who is a character that all throughout of it doesn't seem to know who he is. That's very key. He doesn't seem to know who he is.

He smokes and he doesn't really, he says cigarettes are terrible. You know, he's given the wrong age. The only thing he knows, and this is a lot of times a situation with the stand, the only thing he knows is that he feels like Paperboy. It's the only thing really. real about him. His age isn't real. His smoking habit isn't real. The only thing that's real is his

ability, is really his talent and his ability to feel what Paperboy is going through. And that sometimes is that thing that makes you feel like you're far away from someone when you don't really know them. Like that guy is a guy that none of them know. None of them know. He is purposely throughout this episode other. They think that they, the guy doesn't even know if the dude is really his nephew. I mean, he is, but he doesn't know, he really doesn't know him. Nobody knows him. And you don't really know those fans that are stands like that.

The only thing that they ever get to show you is this weird, opaque sort of emotion, this like thing out in the ether. And so by the time he has a real connection with, uh, with Al and with us, it seems to be the only thing that's real about him. You know what I mean? It, like, is the song. It seems to be the only thing that's genuine. That's why when we get to the end of the episode,

and he doesn't have the phone, Sox has the phone. It is a complete mind fuck because it's almost like it undoes everything that we just watch. I still don't understand what it really meant for Sox to have the phone. What did you think about it? So I watched it twice and I was just like, oh, that is a genius moment because Sox tells you who he is the minute he almost says the N word. And, but they know Sox. Sox is better at blending in with Paperboy, with Earn, with Darius. He's one of the boys. But what we have to remember is why Paperboy wants this phone. He wants this phone because it finally connects him back to his roots. He finally found his voice again. He literally found the, the voice that he's been losing, the farther he gets away from Atlanta, the farther he gets

away from his people. And that is a threat to Sox. Sox does not want Paperboy to go back to old Paperboy. The Stan, Wiley actually would love that. He loved Paperboy's first mixtape. Wiley actually isn't supportive of this. Sox, on the other hand, if Paperboy has that phone, gets that song, records that new song, realizes fuck being in Europe, I need to go back Atlanta, I need to go touch back with my people, Sox is never going to hear from him again. And that to me is the whole metaphor is that sometimes the people who are closest to you, the people who need something from you, especially when you're rich and you're famous and you're this rapper, and especially when you're a black man, don't have your best interest at heart. And Sox is a parasite. He does not care about

Paperboy's art. He cares about his proximity to Paperboy, because as long as he's close to Paperboy, his gravy train keeps running. And that's what I think is kind of so genius about the fact that not only does he have the phone, but he throws the phone away. Because he doesn't give a fuck if Paperboy ever makes another good song again. He just doesn't.

So you feel like he stole the phone because? If Paperboy has that phone, gets that phone back, Sox knows he doesn't need it. And also I think Sox is a little bit, he felt othered in the beginning of the episode.

I just want to make you say it again. because you was in your bag. That was like, I just wanted to make you say it again. Because you was in your bag, that whole thing. God damn, we're in our bag on this podcast. Yeah, man. I wonder if this is how, I wonder if this is how,

how Sean Financy feels. This is how he feels all the time. It's like, what are you like, when you say, you bring up a movie, he's like, I've watched that movie five times. This is what happens. That's how he's. That's not what Sean does.

You bring up a movie and Sean goes, Interestingly enough, I actually read a book by the second AD on that film. Yeah, the second AD on that film, I wrote a book, like wrote a book. I'm like, how the fuck did you have time to do all the other shit and read the book that the second AD wrote? God damn. Yeah, you just be saying like, God damn, I'm never going to get to this level. But here's a thing. If you go back to the, what?

Come on now. We do our thing over here. Don't do that job. One of my favorite odds. But think about it, he felt othered when Darius and Paperboy are making fun of the strip club. Well, they're like, we ain't going back to there. And I think that's the moment where he, like, once Paperboy leaves, he steals the phone because he's just like, he realizes like, oh, I'm not one of them right now. They don't actually need me.

And the minute that they lose the phone, he gets closer. They don't worry about him. And he and he gets to, he gets to. he gets to flex and be the hitta of the group. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Look, you guys, we've given you 46 minutes on Atlanta.

We gave you some tangits, whatever. But Atlanta is a show that delves into the Black experience, and I don't know, but me and Charles are both Black. We are De Black Panthers. Oh, I mean, the reason I like this recording with you, because it's like, we don't agree on everything. And sometimes you change my mind. And sometimes I'll say something like, oh, no, that's not right. And I think that's actually something that I love about Atlanta. Even if I don't agree with all the race shit that they do a lot of times, I'm just like,

you know, the black experience is not monolithic. Like, I want to see what other black people, how they feel, like black women write on the show, black men right on this show, people from like immigrants, whatever. Like, I want to see what they think about the black experience, even if I don't agree, because it just shows you how beautiful black life is. So that's why it's dope, you know? Last question before I go. Yeah.

It seems like we're getting back to the main narrative. Do you want another abstract episode like three slaps or the big payback at some point in the season? I think they have to give it to us, but they need to rock with the main narrative. I think they need another like three episodes that are just with Paperboy, Darius, Earn and Van. Because pacing-wise, it's thrown a lot of the audience off this season, not having them the first five episodes, only having three episodes where everybody's in. I don't know about you. Like, I like those episodes, but they need to give us a little bit more plot.

I want another one. I'm not going to lie. So soon? Not so soon. They could save it. I feel like they're going to do something crazy, like make the season finale. I mean? I mean, they could make the penultimate episode, something like that, and I would rock with it.

But I just need a few more episodes with the Paperboy's shit. I get it. I get it. Okay. He is Charles Holmes of the Ringer Music Show. And of course, The Midnight Boys, Poo-Pew. I am Van Lathen of Higher Learning. And I'm Van Lathen of Higher Learning and the Midnight Boys, Poo-Pew.

I just got so many Atlanta things in my head. Our producer on this is Jonathan Little Spidey Kerma. And if you want to know why his name is Jonathan Little Spidey Kerma, you can head on over to the Ringerva verse and learn the origin story. of Little Spidey and how he deals with the reality where none of his friends remember who he is. It's very sad. Look, you guys, loving covering this show.

It's fantastic. That is our podcast for episode five of Atlanta Cancer Attack. We will be back next week to cover more Atlanta to talk a little bit more about it, to talk a little bit more about the real-life threads this show. This podcast right here, the prestige podcast, about Atlanta, isn't just about the show itself. It's about the conversations that the show can spark,

and I think you got some of that on this episode. Chuck, you got anything to say before we get out? Oh, no, I just love doing this podcast with you. Make sure you tap in to the Midnight Boys. Pibu! And yo, we'll see you next week. Next week. You can't reason with the sun.

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