The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Atlanta’ Season 3, Episode 9 Recap

Episode Date: May 13, 2022

Van Lathan and Charles Holmes return to break down "Rich Wigga, Poor Wigga," the ninth episode of Season 3 of ‘Atlanta.' They discuss what elements of the episode disappointed them, debate the usefulness of certain celebrity cameos, and examine the show's occasionally heavy-handed messaging. Hosts: Van Lathan and Charles Holmes Producer: Devon Manze Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, Rob Harviller from 60 Songs That Explain the 90s here to inform you that we are back with 30 more songs because the 90s were super long and had a ton of rad music. Please join us every Wednesday for more 60 songs that explain the 90s only on Spotify. Welcome to the ringer's prestige TV podcast feed. That is Charles Holmes, host of the ringer music show and one half of the Midnight Boys. Poo poo poo p pingers. I am Van Lathen, host of Hops. Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay. And also the other half of the

Midnight Boys, really more one-fourth of the Midnight Boys. Shout out, Jeremy and Steve. We know the vibes. And we are back to give you another reaction on the third season. This is the third of the fourth season. I always get that this is the third season. That's what I'm telling you. You've been up. You've been podcasting. You've been working hard. You don't even know what season we are.

We're the third season of Atlanta. Look, Charles, I know things. I know a lot of things. And I do know that of all the episodes of Atlanta we've watched for this podcast, this one is going to be the one that's probably the most challenging to discuss, Charles. Okay. It's just right away when I turned on this episode, I realized it was in this episode. I'm like, this isn't going to be fun. This is where we got to unpack some shit. Okay, so tell me what made you think that going right into it?

So before I even watched the episode, I saw like a teaser trailer on Twitter for the episode. This episode is called Rich Whigga, Poor Wigga. And Kevin Samuels was on, I saw him in the video. And for those that don't know, Kevin Samuels was, how would you describe Kevin? He was an internet star Instagram, YouTube influencer who was very, very misogynistic and would go viral for saying stuff like if you're 35, telling women if you're 35 and unmarried that you're unwanted or telling or like telling women just very, very damaging things. Like if you're going to chase a successful man, then he deserves to cheat on you. all this crazy shit. This is what we'll say about Kevin Samuels.

Kevin Samuels was something of a relationship guru. Not even so much that. He wasn't really dealing in romance, what he was dealing with. He's a cultural commentator that would typically try to root out what he felt like were unrealistic expectations from the sexist. Charles is not lying when he says this about Kevin Samuels, but we should tell you that this man died last week.

He died at the age of 57 in his apartment building, which a lot of people on Twitter have been having a blast with. Just because this guy who was a self-styled relationship guru, who was divorced multiple times, the woman that he was with that night ended up having to call the paramedics because he was having heart problems. so there is a bit of irony, dramatic irony, in the way that he went out, considering, like, here's the quote. I'm not even like, this is the quote that kind of went viral. He said, quote, if you have made it to 35 and you are unmarried, you are left over a woman, you are what is left. Men know that there is something likely wrong with you,

whether you want to hear it or not, I'm going to go there with you. I'm telling you the truth that you don't want to hear. And the reason that I'm telling you that is to kind of illustrate what it means to put him in the, this episode and to give maybe the creators a little grace. These episodes, I believe, were written in 2019. So, like, Kevin Samuel's

was already problematic. But this was before he had even gone into, like, the final stages of him being the king of toxic masculinity. I don't see that there's any way that this episode was written before Kevin Samuels made an internet fame for himself.

I think it's impossible. Why on God's green earth would he be in this, except for the fact that he was already famous from doing what he was doing. Kevin Samuels exploded on the scene, I believe, in 2020, because he was doing things via Zoom during the pandemic. There's almost no, I can't believe that this was written before Kevin Samuels got famous. Oh, I mean, I believe that he was a figure when they wrote this and he was famous.

I'm saying that, like, his current bout of like, he was in a future video. You know what I mean? Like, he was reaching. Yeah, but this is what I'm saying is this is. been going on for almost like this has been going on for two years now. Kevin Samuels has been, you know, he's done the whole podcast run. You've seen him everywhere. He's been on Joe.

He's been on no jumper. He's been blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Kevin Samuels became famous doing this. I think, like, I'm pretty sure during the pandemic, he went viral on World Star. And then after that, you know, he was a lightning rod for conversation and criticism on black Twitter and into culture. So I think that in order for it to matter that he's in this episode, you have to be like, oh shit, that's Kevin Samuels.

And that would have, no one was thinking that in 2019. No one. No, yeah. And here's the thing too. I am not here to talk ill of the dead. That's just not something that I personally do. I just do think that there is a level of responsibility that you have. And even the description of this episode reads,

Black and White episode, Yon, Emmy Bate, why do they hate black women so much? Like, there is a level of trolling, I think, with this show where, like, Donald Glover, all of the creators, see everything that we're saying about the show or are predicting what we'll say about the show

way before it air. So I even think that they knew that this was going to be the episode where everybody was just like, yeah, fuck this. I don't think that they would predict that this season would be so divisive, though. let me read you a tweet that I got. Let me read you a tweet that I got.

And I, in the vein of what it is that you're saying, there was a tweet from a lady, Rebecca Boldenheimer. Shout out to Rebecca. He said this was amazing analysis of a truly special episode of television, Van Lathen, and Charles Holmes. TV is in truly chaotic times right now. I don't know how it's to explain the fact that the discourse around Atlanta FX is so muted here makes no goddamn sense.

Okay, so shout out to Rebecca. There was a response that said because nobody is enjoying the season other than the artsy critics who think the writers purposefully antagonizing what fans loved is cool. That's from Infohead 44. All right. So in that situation, when I first saw that, I was like, kind of bullshit, right? Like I wasn't fucking with the tweet. I was like maybe a little bit too simplistic, a little bit too on the nose of a criticism.

This episode changed that. This episode seemed to be directly doing that. And the black woman line in the description was doing that. Interestingly, though, we had a different response to the cameo that was in last week's episode, which was the cameo from Liam Neeson, a guy who had said that he was running around looking for black people to beat up

for really no goddamn reason. That seemed brave to us on behalf of the show and on behalf of the performer. This seemed cheap. Why? Because I don't know what they were trying to say.

Like I get what the episode was trying to say, but I don't know what emotionally it was really trying to grab. And the only, thing, and this might be grasping at straws, is I went back to the Donald Glover interview magazine piece, and he said something about his kids that is very, very telling. Let me get it. He said, I don't want them to be the light-skinned kid saying, I don't see color. That's what he said about his children, because he's had children with a white woman. And I was just like,

this episode is directed by Donald Glover. Written by Stephanie Robinson, so he didn't write it. Yeah, but at least visually, this is his world that he's trying to paint. Stephanie Robinson wrote it. I think that there could have been an emotional core of, like, what is it to raise a light-skinned black person who does not identify as black in this world? A low logic. Well, logic identifies as black, but that's fraud. I did not feel anything for any of these characters. I didn't feel anything for Aaron.

I didn't really feel anything for his father. there was a lack of, I don't know, beating heart to this, where it was like, it was trying to like point and be like, ha, ha, isn't this so funny? And I'm like, yeah, there's jokes in here that are funny, but like, what's the human,

what's the human element here? What am I supposed to grab onto? Even with the Liam Neeson thing when he arrived in last week's episode, we forget that that was in the middle of a paper boy story, of a very emotional story that we find out is about his mother.

So even if you don't fuck with the Liam Neeson part, There's still like an effective story about Alfred still going through the death of his mom years later that you can like grab onto. And in that is the little Liam Neeson thing. In this, there's nothing emotionally connect to. And then you have Kevin Samuels who is also toxic and has also been quote unquote canceled. It makes it a harder pill to swallow. Like I'll ask you this. Would you have thought the Liam Neeson camea,

would have been as good if the episode surrounding it was whack. No. No, I mean, look, I think that, I think that you're, all your, your observations are valid. And, um, I tend to agree. I just think, well, two things. Okay. So let's go back to the episode. Okay.

The episode is about a young man who, by the way, the minute he opened his mouth, I knew he was black. Oh, that, that was the genius part of the casting where he, let's, Let's set the stage. We see this room. We see a post Malone picture. There's manga. There's a John Snow,

a little guy, Bobblehead, a Logan Paul Jersey from his comedy tour. And he's playing this video game. And he says the N-word with the ER. And you're supposed to believe that this guy is white

because he has really, really, like, fine hair. He looks white. He's a person that could pass. The minute he was, the minute he started talking, I knew he was black.

Oh, the bass in his voice. I'm like, all right. It was, because that's also the funny thing where I was just like, once I heard the bass in his voice, I'm like, are they going to do this episode? And by the way, I think they, I think wherever the actor was, and we should look and find his name since we're doing a podcast on the show.

But he probably was told to play up and blackify his voice a little bit to make sure that we, that it threw some conflict in the mind of the viewer. I would almost I guarantee you that it was. So this is obviously somebody who's passing and in his passing,

he's accrued everything that passing people do, acceptance into a whiteness. He's got a white chick. He's got a white, he drives to school with his black dad, which once again, they telegraph that. They have a conversation back and forth,

and it seems like they get on pretty well, right? He gets to school. and he's white, white this, white that, white this, white that. He's going to school with the white kids. He's happy about it. There is an assembly at school, a surprise assembly,

a benefactor has come to the school and they're going to pay the tuition of every single kid that was going to college. Because although this kid is white passing, he still has black problems, which is they can't really afford to pay his tuition for the school that he wants to.

He's like Fafso. He's like, I ain't signed most loans. I'm like, damn, man. His dad doesn't want to sign the papers for the loans so that he can go to the school with the rest of his homies, who probably a financial better place than he is.

Anyhow, so Kevin Samuels is this benefactor, Robert S. Lee, and he is going to pay the loans for everyone in the school that is black. So now this kid is being called upon to prove his blackness. That's why I'll stop right there with the Kevin Samuel situation.

So, to me, and let's say that I'm wrong about this being written before Kevin Samuels blew up. I don't see how it could have been, but let's say it did. On both sides of it, I'm wondering what his involvement in the episode signifies. Kevin Samuels is not someone that I consider to be an avatar for black culture. Or for, I'm not speaking upon a man's blackness, but I'm just saying it doesn't make sense. If it was something that had to do with relationships or had something that had to do with that or something that had to do with men versus women's schism and strife, I'd expect it.

But I wouldn't have expected him up there. You expect like a Dave Chappelle or something like that in that role, someone who speaks on these particular issues all the time. And that's not really who he was. So I kept waiting to understand why he was in this episode other than the spectacle of him being in this episode. And it never delivered. And because it didn't, it was distracting. It was super distracted because I agree with you where it's like we know Kevin Samuels as the toxic dude who's always shitting on women and specifically black women.

That's how I know him. So I was just like, oh, are you going to say anything about women in this? Is this your way of kind of like trying to say something big about all of the criticisms that the show gets about how they portray black women? And there was like, no, he's just here as a stunt. But what I want to ask you, and I might be, this might be too wild and out there. But do you think as a culture, you know, my kings and queens out there, we're getting too obsessed with cancellation? Like, because I don't believe cancellation is a thing. Like, when you're a celebrity, I don't believe cancellation is a thing.

But we just got off the Kendrick Lamar video where he's deep faking like O.J. and Kanye and Justice Smollett and all these people. We have everything that's going on with Dave Chappelle and Netflix. And like when Dave Chappelle is getting assaulted on stage, the first thing he does is joke about if it's a trans person who did it.

And now we have Atlanta, which a lot of this, we just got an episode of the Cancel Club, we just got Kevin Samuels. I'm starting to kind of recoil a bit at like black celebrities being so obsessed with this idea of like why are we canceling these black people. I'm like black people are not canceling these people. Like why are we circling this drain so much as a culture right now? So this is what I'm obsessed with cancellation. First of all, you're right.

Nobody gets really canceled. The only people that have really been canceled are, People like Weinstein, Bill Cosby, and, and, um, and T.I. And I would argue that Bill Cosby wasn't. I mean, I wouldn't, at that point, I wouldn't be like, even called that cancellation. I'm just like, oh, no, they did a bunch of illegal shit and they hurt a lot of people. And then they had to fucking pay for it. What I mean by is they're like fucking Voldemort.

Like, they're really not fucked with, right? Like, they're not fucking, they're like fucking Voldemort. Like, you can't, like, you can't get it done with Archie. Kelly right now. Like, nobody's going to fuck with you. You can't get it done with Bill Cosby. If I right now say, hey, we have this amazing podcast that we're doing. I need Bill Cosby on the podcast.

Not going to happen. If that was Lewis C.K., some people might let that fly, right? If it was Dave, some people are going to let that fly. If it was other people, if it was Kevin Samuels, we might have had him on higher learning had he not passed away. Like, these people haven't really been canceled. It's just that a lot of people don't like them and maybe those people have canceled them. but the internet is so fragmented

and there are so many different corners of it it's very difficult to cancel anything Putin can't be canceled right too many people like him you know what I'm saying so you certainly can't cancel but the reason why I'm obsessed with cancellation is because when

celebrities talk about cancellation often what they're talking about is their desire to be separated from the masses right they don't want to have to answer to anybody So they don't want to be They don't It's like

Like why would you take my career Oh because you called me a nigger That's why Like oh why would you Like oh why would you end Why would you end the man's career? Oh because he sexually assaulted a woman That's why

The answers are always there Like why would you do this Oh because of this, this why It's just I think that all of this talk about this Is so that They can insulate themselves from what the internet is, which is the fact that everybody has an opinion. Now, we can talk

about whether or not that's a good thing. I happen to believe that it's not. But it's another example of celebrities wanting to play a different game than everybody else has to play. It's another example of them thinking, hey, we're special and different in this way, and we get to live here and no one

should share anything about it. The reality is this. Like, if you're Donald Glover or if you're Kevin Samuels and you put stuff out in the world, people are going to talk. and you do a podcast in nerddom, in fan, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, we say something, people jump on our asses all day long because these are the characters that come from their youth. The reality is, that's part of the game. It's part of the job. Yeah, but

because we're not, like, we're both doing well, but I think there's a difference where it's just, like, because I'm still, I'm still a regular person. I go outside. It's not like people, I could go out to dinner and my day not be ruined. Like nobody's going to spot me and be like, oh my gosh. Is that like, yeah, when I fuck up on a podcast, it's fine. I'm going to say sorry.

I'm going to apologize. I get it. Like, I'm not perfect. I think that there's a layer of Atlanta where it's like last episode there was saying something about cancellation. In this episode, it's kind of like, now we're putting Kevin Samuels in our shit.

I think that Donald Glover relates to, I think that Donald Glover and a lot of people relate to a guy like Kevin Samuels because what they want more than anything, artistic what we have to understand is we have to be able to differentiate artistic freedom from the ability to say and do whatever

the fuck you want without having to hear from anyone. So really Donald Glover once went on the Donald Glover is a creative hero of mine I've said this before. Donald Glover once went on the breakfast club and said I want to be big and white. He said we talked about this. I was I want to be big

and white and he said whiteness is blankness. Whiteness means that there's no basically his point was if I'm saying it right is whiteness means there's no preconceived notion about you you step in no one makes a judgment whatever you come with is whatever you are like a white guy makes star wars right because his brain is free to think outside of earth hard to do when you're from the south side of chicago or south baden ruse it's blightness it's whatever i get to imagine is what happens and that's what all creatives want cool i get it if you tell a bunch of black people

on the blackest blackety black ass morning show in America that you want to be big and white, they're gonna have something fucking to say about it. And their audience. Like, come on. You're walking in the line stem. Right. I get what you trying to say, dog.

I fucking fuck with it. I understand what you mean. I would never say that. But I understand what you mean. But if you say that, people are going to be like, the fuck you mean you want to be white. You know what I'm saying?

And so I think that part of it, I don't under, I'm not putting ourselves and putting us in that same category because we do a podcast. But what I'm saying is I understand how he might feel at the same time. He can go to the Maldives anytime he wants. He can get a movie greenlit anytime he wants. There's a trade-off. There's like a trade-off. I'm in New Orleans right now hosting a television show because I speak so many words. There's a trade-off.

And it seems like they're not. not willing to play by the rules of the game that they willingly endeavored into. So all I'm saying is, so all I'm saying is this, even with the Kevin Samuels thing. Kevin, for all the people who loved Kevin Samuels,

he earned that. For all the people that fucking hated him, he earned that too. Nick, I ain't got to be nice to him. Like, you you know what I'm saying? It's like, God bless the man, he passed away. But I'm like, like, I'm about

to fucking cry. And so it seems like I'm getting something forced down my throat about these people. I don't give a fuck. Fuck that. You know what I'm saying? So I'm looking in the episode to be like why

why this is this is the thing. And I think it's because we're trying to expand the club of people that just get shit talked about them when they asked for it. I mean, Kevin Samuels deserved it.

Like here's the thing. If there is any group on planet Earth that has to deal with more shit and persevere, it is black women. So every single negative thing that somebody has to have to Kevin Samuels

probably has a little bit of a point. He didn't run from it. A lot of a point. He didn't run from it. He didn't run from it at all. So don't cry for him. Back to the episode. Yes. So I want, the thing that I do think I find interesting about this episode, is that it is once again interrogating what it means

to not only be white, but what it means to be black and what you have to do to take those things on and off. And with Aaron, this character, he wants to be white when it benefits him. And it benefits him when he goes to school, he gets a white girlfriend, he gets to hang out with all of his friends,

he gets introduced to another layer of, of income and living that he's not living with his dad. His dad even points it out to him when he's riding. He's just like, yo, don't do that shit when you're in DeKalb with your black friends. Like, don't do that shit. Because he knows that there's like Aaron who he is with his other friends and there's Aaron who he is with his white friends at school. And I think that that is very interesting to interrogate because the minute that whiteness

or the minute that blackness can benefit Aaron, he wants to be black. The minute when Kevin Samuel's character comes in and be like, I will pay for tuition for every black student. Aaron has this crisis of conscience. Like, I want to be black now because it benefits me. And I do think that that is a very, as president of the light skin club, as a very light skin thing you fucking do. Right. You know what I'm saying? So this is, this is an interesting thing in America.

A central question to a lot of black people is in America. A central question to a lot of people in America, period, that aren't white, is how white do you have to be to have success? Or how white are you willing to be? Right? Like, how white are you willing to be to be successful in America?

And when we say white, we mean culturally white. And that's what this episode is litigating. Cultural whiteness, cultural blackness, the guy says Robert Shea Lee says, hey, it's not going to be all about whether or not you're Aidos, whether or not you're an African descendant of slave, right? Slaves. It's going to be about whether or not you're culturally black.

Because when black people are talking about who we are as a people, We're very rarely talking about whether or not your ancestors were on the same slave ship as mine. Well, we're talking about whether or not you've been born into or, in some cases, opted into certain cultural rhythms and certain cultural expectations that we have for one another. That is, by the way, no different than any other culture, we should say. Like, there's no different than any other culture. It's just ours is sort of put on display on a mass level because what we do in America and what we've done in America as black people is we've sold our culture in exchange for our freedom, right? But to be fair, and to be fair, black culture at this point is the center of culture.

Right. Performing blackness, which is what this episode is about, Aaron has to go to a talent show and be quizzed and has to perform his blackness. and be judged upon it. That's what you have to do. That's what I have to do in a country that is built on whiteness. There's a certain level of when we get into a room, I have to perform a level of blackness to get paid.

Even if I'm not doing it consciously, subconsciously sometimes, I have to switch. You know what I mean? I think subconsciously it turns on for me. And the reason why it turns on for me is because it's a, defense mechanism. So I walk into a room and the last thing I want to be is the black dude in the room that the white people feel like they could play with.

So I end up turning it up a little bit just to let them know, hey, don't get too comfortable because one of y'all going to let the N-Words slip out and now we got a problem. I'm like, like, don't get too comfortable because one of you guys is going to make a joke and now we got a problem. So what I sometimes use my blackness to do is to protect, and not only myself, but to protect the white people around me from thinking that it's all gravy. Because if I give you a little bit of friction,

you're going to be on your peas and cues and cues, and now we all cool, right? And now everything's cool. But if I get too comfortable with you, I know you're going to fuck up. And I'm too emotional not to deal with it. So in this situation, like in this case, the opposite has never happened to him.

See, like, All of these rappers that make all of this money. Like, culturally, they become, like, less black. They start talking about shit that people in the hood don't really understand. I remember listening to, like, Jay-Z talk about VVS diamonds or flying on private airplanes or, like, a diamond cream facial, or, like, all of this stuff. And like, that's not shit that we really do. Like, you go places, these guys know all the finest wines. They know the different champains.

They know how to fucking, they become cultured in a way that a lot of black people aren't. And that happens to you, the level of, the more successful you get in America because a lot of these things, like, we don't have them. We have our own versions of them. But these things that exist in Paris and in Spain and in Italy and all these places that people go, we don't know how to do none of that. shit. Like, we don't know how to do it. So it's interesting to watch that in this episode in the inverse. It's interesting to watch someone go,

okay, you want access? Be a nigger. Like, be a nigger. And as interesting as that was, the moment that scene was over, the episode fell right the fuck on his face. I mean, but here's the thing. I don't even think that the episode really succeeded

at that point. Oh, really? Okay. At this tribunal and they're like quizzing him like, yo, what are the six things that you can mix with Hennessy, and they're going through all of these different, like, things. And I'm like, yo, this is like, I ain't trying to be mean, but this is, like, your friend of I shoot doing improv shit when you're in college. And, like, they're trying to do improv about, like, some black joking. And you're like, this isn't, this ain't really hitting like y'all think it is.

I think actually the most interesting thing about the episode was actually his, his, two things. I think the first is his relationship with his friends, because going to a white school where often I was the only black kid in gifted programs. When it was time to apply to college, I would openly hear white people like going like, yeah, I heard, I heard Charles and his brother got into that college probably because they're black. And I'll be like, like, what the fuck are, like what? Or it would be something like another black kid, another class would get into a college that a white kid got into wanted to get into. And it would be like, yeah, man, like, it's so easy,

affirmative action, blah, blah, blah, blah. I remember teachers making. Teachers making us to beat affirmative action in class. I'm like, what the fuck is happening right now? I used to love that shit. Like, what are we doing? I used to love that. I'd be talking to the rest of the kids in class and I'd be like, oh, they're like, uh, it's like, oh, we're having an all night study group because I wasn't gifted as well.

I'd be like, I'm not coming to that. I only need a C. And I can go to Yale. White, man. Oh, I love dude. I'm going to any scoffice. It was such bullshit. I remember one of my baseball coaches going,

any black kid in America can go to college if they really, really want to. And I was like, what does really, really want to mean? It's like, yeah, it doesn't even matter. They even have to have great grades. Let's just throw you right in there. I'm like, you're an idiot. Tell me how to, tell me, tell me how to read the seams on the fastball.

Because, like, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Like, stick to your shit. So, but, but it, but understanding that they have those, those, those, uh, those thoughts, To me, it never made me angry. It was so funny. The differences that we've had culturally, it was hilarious to me.

But you want to know what's funny about that is that I don't even think Aaron gets it. Or it's just like, I got it very quickly. The first college I went to University of Delaware, I had to transfer out. I will never forget, the first day I get to my dorms, a white dude walks up to me. He's like, yo, I just want to tell you, you're the first black person I've ever. ever talked to. And I'm like, what? And he's like, yeah, this isn't how I thought it would go. I've never, I've never talked to a black person before. And I was just like, what? Like, where, where the fuck am I? And I'm like, I would not see a black person all day. Like, just never,

I would just never see him. And I was like, yeah, well, I'm out of here. I'm out. I had that nigga believe in all kinds of shit, bro. Bro, I'd have had him, bro, I'd have had him believe in all I love that you can't tell me no shit like that I'd have him believing

all what would you tell him motherfucker he's like I've never met a black person I've never I've never been a black person before

oh I'd have him believing that sickle cell was contagious you know what I'm saying like hey hey man come here you want that oh no that bro

you might catch sickle cell my sickle cell's playing up it's a bad month for my sickle cell bro

you can catch that yeah yeah yeah as matter of that's how the Haitian revolution was We gave all of the French sickle cell

They died from it And then we just took the island over And they've been making us pay for it ever since Yeah sickle cell You know But but like I I never had to deal with that The white

I'm such an antagonist That I was always Fucking with them And I was so big You know But no And you know We're able to have a very good conversation

About this episode of television Because I think that they're at its root, there was a very novel, very interesting concept there. Would you agree with me, Charles? Oh, the concept was so amazing. Here's the thing. You want to know how I know the concept was amazing, where it's like, this is a black man who is mixed, who identifies

is white. And the minute he does not, like the minute Kevin Samuels says he's not getting into, he's not getting a scholarship, and his girlfriend breaks up with him because she knows that he's not going to college. He even gets jealous of another black man hitting on this white woman. There was a lot going on. Wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere in a crowd. But too often, life gets busy, or the price hold you back.

Price line is here to help you make it happy. With millions of deals on flights, hotels, and rental cars, you can go see the game live. Don't just dream about the trip. Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit Priceline.com. Actual prices may vary, limited time offer. If there was one big criticism to make about the Atlanta anthology episodes, which I think at the end of this season,

we should rank all of them from best to worst, the ones that we liked. If there was one criticism to make is sometimes they're not heavy-handed, they are sledgehammer-handed. Oh my gosh, there's no nuance. There is no... The conversation between the black American mixed kid from here and then the kid from Africa is exactly... I mean, that's like... I mean, that's the sticking point, right?

But they just threw that at you. Like, fuck it, here it is. Get hitting the side of the head with... Wait, let me... Let me read what he says. Aaron says to this African-American kid who also brings a flamethrower to destroy and burn down the school, quote, I understand what he means.

You're not really black. You have an entire culture to pull from. You know where you're from. You can trace your lineage and you have a country to go home to. Now, I understand that that is what the episode is about. But making the subtext text, making the thing, saying it out loud, makes me go home like, guys,

you have to trust the audience a little bit more. A little bit more. You have to, because they were just having the conversation where Kevin Samuel's character doesn't think either of them are black

for different reasons. And this African-American kid is darker skin. So obviously in America, he is a black person. But I've met, I've had African friends who are just like,

who I've had to explain to me, like, yo, like, there's a difference between African-American, what you view your, yourself as in my culture. Like, I get that. That is a thing that...

Oh, shit. Let me keep it all the way funky with you. They didn't explain it to me. They straight up hit me in the head where we better than you. I'm sorry. Hey, hey, I'm not trying to be a dick about this. I'm just telling you my life experience. I will never forget.

Shout out to all of my homies, man. My homies is Jim, Jean, okay, my Nigerian brothers. I love y'all. But we went through some shit. back in the day. I remember distinctly someone telling me that the reason why Barack Obama was able to become the first African-American president was because

his father was Kenyan and not Black American. I remember reading this. I'm like, nigga, do you know we're all on a Gmail thread together? I'm like, what fuck that? What do that mean? And he's like, well, there are certain ways that African-Americans act and certain things that they don't think. I'm like, it can't be, it can't be, let's listen to Jay Z on Tuesday and then fuck you black niggas on Saturday night.

Like, we can't do this. Like, we can't, it can't be, oh, it's the rock. You know what I'm saying? Talk about LeBron James. He was trying to claim Barack. He's like, not Barack and one of y'all. Yeah. It can't be, let's listen to, let's go, let's talk about LeBron James and Jordan on Wednesday.

And then on fucking Saturday, you can't have none. of my jala. Wait, how do you explain away the white side? Did he just ignore it? I forgot. That conversation is still in my Gmail and I can send it to anyone who doesn't believe me. And throughout time, I always just sometimes it's people from, they just start

talking about, I'm like, yo, y'all really be like, fuck you. And I'm like, dog, I'm with you, man. Diaspora, we're together. You can't do me that way. And so I understand the conversation, but they didn't have the conversation, they, like, gave it to us.

And at that particular point, I was like, all right. They did, but they did the same conversation better in the fashion episode with Darius when he's, like, sitting in the restaurant and he's having the conversation with the auntie. The auntie's like, yo, where are you from? Like, when's the last time you go back?

Darius is, like, having this realization. Like, yo, I have not gone back home in so many years. You've had that, like, that conversation. Why the fuck would you do it again worse? in the penultimate episode. Right. Stuff. All right. Last scene, and then we'll get out of here.

Last scene, there's a whole hokey situation, a chase in the school that I'm just, you know, I don't give too sense of body. It's like, yeah. The African kid gets shot. That makes him black.

Kevin Samuels gives him his tuition money. And then there's a last thing. It's almost like a Marvel Stinger type of a scene where our boy Aaron has now fully accepted his blackness. He's got his zombie thing going. He's incessantly brushing his waves. He got the Caesar. He's got the Caesar. He's got the chain on his polo shirt

which my father fucking hated. He hated. Why do he hate the chain on a polo shirt? See, he just could not stand it. He just couldn't stand it. That would make him call you a nigger fast than anything. You niggas. Just wear the shirt

like a good, just wear a... You niggas always. I'm like, dad. Oh, respectability politics. Come on. What are we doing? Big times. You niggas.

I'm like, come on, dad. You didn't raise this. I don't believe in this. Anyhow. And he sees his girlfriend. And of course, the joke is, now that he's black, he likes the white woman even more than he did before. Which is, once again. Like, they're just hitting us over the head with the punchline.

Which I'm just like, come on, guys. We need a little bit more subtlety here. The camera glance was funny as fuck Oh no, the camera, like, he glances at the camera And then it like stops on his face I was like, this is pretty good Like that's actually pretty funny Like that was funny. Okay.

So can I ask you this wrapping? Oh, what were you said? No, no, go for it. No, wrapping up, I wanted to ask you. We have one more episode of Atlanta. Do you think that the criticisms at this point Might be a little bit fair? We have one more episode to go.

I've seen a lot of people in my circle, a lot of critics, black critics, being very, very dismissive of this season, saying that it almost seems like Atlanta is trying to make a show that speaks to white people more than it speaks to black people. I don't know if I agree with that, but I can see why black critics would be a little bit

like fuck this show. It's fair? I don't agree. I don't think it has anything to do necessarily culturally with white people or black people. I think that there's a cultural sensibility Donald Glover has, and he is free. And I sense that the first couple of seasons of Atlanta were

easing people into this season of Atlanta. I think if there would have been no... I don't think he could have sold this the way this is right now, but in his heart of hearts, this is who he is. This is the kind of shit he likes to do. So I don't think this is necessarily about trying to speak to white people. I think that all of this,

all of this work is, I think that it's, I think that it's very inspired. I just think, I think the least, the less inspiring stuff probably was the stuff earlier on. That it was probably meant to capture a certain audience

in grounding things the way they were before. I think personally, this degree of surrealism and this sort of abstract look at things is probably either where he always was or legitimately where he's grown to.

I think the audience is just going to have to deal with it. I also think that there's a level of when Atlanta arrives those first two seasons we really hadn't seen anything like that

on a channel like FX. Certainly, yeah. In terms of like black creatives making this show saying the things that they were saying, sometimes being super problematic with it. It's just like, I'm not, like, it was groundbreaking.

Like, we can list the shows that after Atlanta popped up that were doing lesser Atlanta. And I think what happens with the third season is, to your point, this is what Donald Glover probably always wanted to make. You wanted to make many movies. You want to make something that's almost

Twilight Zone-esque, something that is like a black mirror that is like, all right, we're going to do something weird with these episodes. And I think that the trick is like you can't always be transformational. You can't always be groundbreaking. Everything that you do will not always be that. And I think as,

like, as fans, as viewers, we're always just like, no, I always want that. I want the thing that was always, like, influential and transformational, not the thing that is, like, new and harder to wrap my hands around. You know what I mean? Like, sometimes Kanye's just going to have an album

that is the life of Pablo. Every album can't be. my beautiful dark twisted fantasy or Ato Waste and Heartbreak. It can't be this new thing. Sometimes it's just going to be a variation on what we've either already died. A lot of good songs. Yeah. You know, sometimes that's what it's going to be.

Right, yeah. All right, man. We got one left, Charles. It's been a lot of fun doing this with you. We got one left next week. And then maybe we'll talk next week. Maybe we'll go a little longer. We'll talk about although we did go longer than we say we were going to go. We gave people almost an hour on something we even liked.

We said we were going to do 30 minutes. Right. Maybe we'll go a little bit longer and kind of sum up the season next week too. Didn't like this one as much. Still loving the season. I'm sorry. I'm one of those artsy critic type motherfuckers. I love this season.

I still fuck with the season. This episode was just easily the weakest of the bunch. Easily the weakest of them for me. Not a waste of time, but just not not. the best for me. Not yet. Love the creatives. Thanks for giving us your art.

I am Van Lathen. That is Charles Holmes. Ring her music show. Check in with it. It's great. Higher learning. Check in with it. It's great.

Midnight boys. Pee-poo. Our producer has been Devin Man's. Thank you, Devin. We really appreciate you. Burning the evening oil with us. Thank you. That means a lot.

We will see you guys next week.