The Prestige TV Podcast - 'Atlanta’ Season 4, Episode 3 Recap

Episode Date: September 23, 2022

Charles and Van take a close look at the third episode of ‘Atlanta’ Season 4, while diving into what it means to be an aging rapper in the music industry. Hosts: Charles Holmes and Van Lathan Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Yossi Salick, and I'm the host of Bansplain, a show where we explain cult bands and iconic artists by going deep into their histories and discographies. We're back with a brand new season at our brand new home, the Ringer podcast network, tackling a whole new batch of artists, from grunge gods to power pop pioneers to new metal legends and many, many more. Listen to new episodes every Thursday, only on Spotify. It's time to refresh your yard during spring backyard days at the Home Depot. price is guaranteed on propane grills starting at $179, like the next grill three-burner gas grill, or get $50 off the select Weber Spirit grill and bring big flavor to your backyard. Then set the scene with Hampton Bay string lights that bring it all together. Shop spring backyard days for seven days at the Home Depot.

Now through May 6th, exclusion supplies to homedipo.com slash price match for details. Good sleep is everything. That's why Ali's science back support is made with a blend of melatonin and LDenny. for both kiddos and grownups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. You're racing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance.

Find Ollie's sleep solutions for the whole family at ollie.com. That's OLLLY.com. Welcome to the Prestige TV podcast. My name is Charles Holmes, one-half, one-fourth of the Midnight Boys, and the host of the Ringer music show. I am joined by Van Lathen

of Higher Learning and the Midnight Boys, Pugh, Poo! And we are here to discuss the final season of Atlanta. How are you feeling today, Van? I am in content bliss. I watch House of the Dragon. I watch Atlanta. I watch all of these. Hey, no screeners.

You guys watch the screeners. I didn't watch it. No screeners. It's not happening again. Yeah, no. But look, Atlanta is a welcome change of pace. The show is so important for so many reasons. And, you know, this is a curveball from the content we normally get to cover.

So I'm loving doing this. This is amazing. Yeah, we are here to talk about the third episode of the fourth season, Born to Die, directed by Adama Ibo, written by Jamal Uluri. And in this episode, we have an A plot, B plot. In the A plot, Paperboard performs at a bar mitzvah where dad asks him to mentor and want to be rapper son for a million dollars. Paperboy says yes, and in the process, Alfred meets a committee of aging black rappers who are interested in working with YWEs, which they call young white

avatars to extend their own financial longevity in the music industry. And then in the B plot, Erne is working at a management company that just took on an older white woman client, who wrote a New York Times bestseller after getting caught on camera, pulling a gun on a black kid who was going door to door for a fundraiser. So, Erne, convinces his boss that he can sign DiAngelo to a management deal, which also doubles as a way for him to not have to work on this new account.

Then, I personally thought Born to Die out of the three episodes so far was my favorite episode of the season so far and honestly, one of the better episodes of Atlanta. Like, I was very taken with this. How are you feeling about this episode? So I like this episode a lot. I'm interested to know why you're so taken with it

and what it really did to you. So I think because... Is that a cut water? No, this is a nice spin drift, okay? Oh, I'm thinking you're getting food. No, bro. I'm trying to say hydrated. But I think born to die,

why it hit me so hard is someone who is still entrenched in music, writing about music, has to think about it every day. I think this season, what we talked about last week is about the life cycle of a rapper, what it means to die as a black artist,

more so metaphorically than physically. What this episode is really, really doing is showing how Paperboy is still young. Alfred is still young. He says it in this episode. He just got off an arena tour. And already a new generation is looking at him like he's washed up, like he's old days of news.

There's even a part when they go to this meeting where Alfred goes, and they're talking about the three stages of rapper. And to me, this isn't the three stages of any rapper. This is three stages of a street black rapper, which is your young street, and they used Chief Keith as all of the examples. Then you're the OG, and then you're in family films with Ice Cube. And I think what this episode and what the season is really interrogating is the ways we throw away black artists and the ways that because we're so appellate,

obsessed with what's new, what's fresh, we really kind of brush aside people when they still have so much to give. And that is what I love as someone who writes about art. And let me tell you, there are a bunch of rappers that are popular and big right now who don't bring you any traffic. People just don't care. So I agree with you, but I also have maybe a slightly different take. I think what we legislate a lot of times in hip hop and what this episode might be legislating is actually whether or not it's okay to have nothing left to give.

Now, Paperboy probably comes before that, right? But a lot of the rappers that I see now are only relevant because of their shenanigans, the older rappers are only relevant because of their shenanigans on social media. The people no longer gravitate towards the music and the reason why is because a rap is so...

Some of the rap that we're talking about here, the street stuff, it can all be sort of explained away in youthful exuberance or not having an understanding of the real world when you're 22, 23, 24. Some of the things that are being wrapped about are, let's face it, bad. I mean, whatever, bad or dysfunctional, whatever. And those things can be explained when you're struggling, when you have this proximity to struggle,

when you have this proximity to a certain lifestyle. after a while, people start to ask questions about who you are, what it is that you believe, and where you're going. And I think certain people have been able to broaden the scope of what it is that they're discussing or the type of music that they're making. It's kind of what Jay Cole was talking about in 1985. And certain people haven't. So the question for me is what happens when you don't have anything left to give? Because, you know, the Rolling Stones are going to be able to sing those songs till they, they're going to be able to see those songs till they, die. I can't get no satisfaction. They couldn't get it thin. They probably still can't get it now.

You know what I mean? Sympathy for the devil, they're going to be able to see those songs for a long time because in a lot of ways, the music doesn't reflect a specific time in their life. It might reflect a specific, you know, thought in their head. Usher can do, you don't have to call today. He can make the same type of R&B music and it won't feel inauthent. People might not gravitated towards it anymore, but it might, it won't feel inauthentic. So when I looked at what Paperboy was going through the young white avatar, I think that has to do and that's actually asking

an interesting question about this hyper youth culture that we're in. Because when I was 13, what I had to do in order to be a part of a cultural discussion, I had to grow up. I had to watch things that were a little bit ahead of me. I had to watch things that

I maybe didn't understand all the way. Now, though, if you are a 13-year-old, there are YouTube videos specifically for the people, there are artists, specifically for where you're from. I say that they haven't been child artists,

but saying that those child artists have normally had to connect with a group that was a little older than them if they wanted to be successful and taken seriously, right? Now, like, there are pockets of relevance that only exist on the internet, people that are multi, multi-millionaires,

that you have no idea who they are or why. or what is it they're doing? My nephew was watching this little kid play with his toys. Yeah, I got a hundred million views. You know what I mean? Yeah, I get some million. So the question is like, if you're a rapper

and you don't have anything left to give, right? Because I understand it works both ways because they're definitely artists that still have something left to give. But what if you don't? How do you give now? And in order to give now, you got to give the game. You got to give it to a young white avatar. somebody that won't see you coming through the door.

Well, I also think the reason that this episode did so much for me is because there's a thing that I've all, like last week, we don't have to get into it. It happened again. People were arguing about white rappers. We're arguing about Mac Miller, all these things. And I think what this episode is also trying to interrogate is how much farther white artists can get in art forms that were created by black people. I say this all the time and people want to buy my head off.

There's a reason why Adele has gone diamond multiple times over and Jasmine Sullivan has. Both of them have equal amounts of talent, but because generally the people in America who have the most money are white, they want to see themselves reflected. It is the same thing with an Eminem. Eminem has talent. Eminem is one of the best rappers to do it, but there is a level of Eminem could go farther than a lot of his peers because he could get into rooms that your average street black rapper just can't.

I've worked at those places. I've worked, I've heard people talk behind closed doors about white rappers and black rappers. Who gets the cover? Who gets to go to the VMAs? Who gets like the primo seating and who does it? And a lot of the young white avatar episode is Paperboy and all of these other rappers

realizing that the only way that we can actually truly get this type of financial freedom is by finding these people. Because what is the young kid, Benny, say to Paperboy, the first, the moment he sees him. He says, quote, you're the dude my dad bought. Like, think about how fucked up that is. He's looking at a black man and being like, oh, my dad bought you. And then Yodel Kid says right after that, I know you. I used to listen to you when I was a kid.

I'm under the impression that even though it's been four seasons, Paperboy's probably been in the game for five or six years at this point. It's on the way out. He's already on the way out. He's already at a level of such, like, kids give him such a little respect. A white kid can look at him and essentially be like, I own you for a couple hours. Go, like, sit in the corner, have fun. That's messed up.

And you got to look at how this reflects real life. I'm not calling anybody else specifically, but we're seeing this. Is the kid Leroy a white avatar? Is, Jack Harlow, Jack Harlow, right? Russ.

Russ a little different. No. Russ a little different. Russ is, I'm going to be honest with you. So by the way, I will say Russ a little different. Russ was grinding,

grinding for a long time. He went. I'm not going to take that away from him. Yeah, like Russ, Russ, a little different. And all of these guys are talented, right? But the kid Leroy was, like, found by Juice World and Lil Bibi. Okay?

This is our same. Boom, boom, boom. Like, Jack Harlow, that's drama and canon, right? Like, and so this is like, oh, shit, we got something. Let's put him out here. Let's get his fucking hair fix. Let's grow the beard in. Let's do this whole thing.

And we put him on a song, he got talent. Nobody would be able to tell the difference except the only people that be able, it's not about whether or not our generation, our consumer base can tell a difference, right? It's not the fact of whether or not the black people listen to it can tell the difference, because the black standard for stuff

normally is talent. Like we want authenticity and stuff like that, but really we want talent, right? The people who can tell the difference are the white consumers, and the difference is the difference that they see. And the difference that they see is the color of the skin a lot.

So when I saw this episode, I saw, this is like a really deep sort of old man in the sea episode of Atlanta where a rapper is forced to confront their own mortality. And that seems like, because we did that a little bit before with Blue Blood, it seems like that's going to be what Al goes through. My question for you was this. Was this funny? Like, is Atlanta, because I have to keep it. I'm watching these shows and I think that they're great. Like, they're really good. I'm not laughing. And is Atlanta still funny? All right. To be fair, are any of these shows that are in the Atlanta milieu funny? I think it's a different type of, like, the best way I can describe it is it's a different way of making a comedy

where it's not about laugh out loud jokes in the way that I think the first two seasons were. a lot of these characters to be quite actors have gotten better at acting I think they're interrogating issues that are a little bit more deep and I think that like I'll put it to you this way I don't laugh out loud when I'm watching

reservation dogs I don't like it's I love that show it's one of the best shows out I'm not laughing out loud at that even though it is a comedy it's 30 minutes I would ask you is Atlanta a comedy anymore just because I think we tend to say because it's 30 minutes,

it's automatically a comedy. When I'm just like, Atlanta at this point is a 30-minute drama. We just don't talk about it because people don't make 30-minute dramas, really. I think it's, I think it used to be a comedy. I think now it's its own thing. Yeah. I think the surreal nature of the show,

the topical nature of the show, it's more satire. I will put it in the, okay, how about this? So, and I feel like this, This is actually cultural in a way, too, because there are other shows that we don't, it's succession to comedy. Succession, we put it in a drama because it's an hour, but it's really a comedy. Like, there are really like setups and punchlines and like go, go, go, go.

But because it's on HBO, because it's an hour, it's a comedy. I was tweeting about it yesterday. House of the Dragon, supposed to be a prestige drama. At this point, it's like a soap opera slash comedy. It is funny. not trying to be funny, but there are moments when I point at the screen and I laugh. So the reason why I bring up Succession is because Succession has wildly funny moments, right? And it's a show that doesn't work if it's not funny.

And to me, that's what makes a show a comedy. What makes a show a comedy to me is if it doesn't work if it's not funny. Because there are plenty of other things that have comedic elements, but like you could still, it could still work with no jokes, right? With no jokes, it would still work. Atlanta works perfectly without it ever being funny. It just doesn't need to be funny anymore. And so to me, it's transcended that a little bit.

And episodes like this where you see things that are amusing and satirical and almost whimsical in a way, because even Ern's entire thing with the DeAngelo situation, it's odd and it's crazy with the fake DeAngelo. but it's not, it wasn't funny. You know what I mean? It's like, there was nothing to really to laugh at.

It was almost like, it's actually like looking at a art piece. Have you watched, Ruthaniel by Gerard Carmichael yet? Yeah. Perfect example. Something where, to me, that was one of the best stand-up routines

I've seen in decades. Was it laugh-out loud funny throughout? No. Was it still stand-up? To me, it was. he's trying to break the form. And that does it mean that it's like any lesser because it's not like

laugh out loud, laugh out loud funny. It's literally someone who could do that. Like I think one thing that we've learned about Donald Glover, Stephen Glover, all the people who created this is like they can do the funniest thing possible. They can. They did it for two seasons. I think they're trying to do something different.

What also I wanted to ask you though. See, we have a difference about that with stand-up comedy. A lot of people go to stand-up comedy and they can just be entertained by a guy on the screen If I go to a, if I watch it a stand-up comic, I want to laugh. See, we're different. I want to, like, I don't mind if a stand-up comic is like, I'm going to try to do something different.

No, I don't mind it. But, you know, like, we, we, I've talked a lot about this show, and I hope that people get a chance to see it. Random acts of flying us on HBO. Have you ever seen it? Is that the one with all the fucking freaky shit? Like, I saw some shit. I was like, I can't do this, bro.

Like, a kid. What's a shit? I can't do. And one thing about the same shit. show. I saw like a trailer for it. And I'm like, bro, this is good. This is too scary. I can't do this. Oh, it was kind of freaky at times.

Yeah, I saw some trailers. I was like, nah, bro, this is too scary. No, but it was, but it was a show. This is years ago, right? It's like a couple years ago, right? Like, Terrence and Nance. And sometimes it's really funny. And sometimes it was surreal to the point of being frightening. You know what I?

Like, you know, sometimes it was just like, oh. But what I'm saying? saying is that a lot of these shows, they're so experimental in nature that they leave you asking so many questions. And to me, that's what Atlanta's doing right now. I wouldn't consider it to be a comedy anymore. And I think that for a lot of the people who love the show from before, they're going to look at the fact that they're not really laughing and it's going to bother them. The show's premiered. And once again, we're in the fourth and final season of Atlanta. It's premiered. Nobody is talking about it.

I mean, I've also been thinking about this. Is it just the way I think it's really, really hard for comedy as a genre in 2022, because what tends to happen is

is that a comedy will come out, it will break the form, or we'll do something that we have never seen before. And for the first season or two, we're all like, oh my gosh, yes. and then third, fourth season,

fifth season comes and people start being like, yeah, it's not changing the game like it used to. And I'm like, that's, you can't, like, all right, for example, Ted Lassow. First season, everybody loves Ted Lassow.

Nobody can say anything bad about Ted Lasson. Second season gets a little darker, starts interrogating some stuff about Ted's life, his father, going to therapy. Everybody's like, the show's not doing the thing that I wanted it to do anymore. And I'm just like,

that's an impossible standard to hold a show to in terms of like a show can only really wow you and bowl you over once or twice trying to do it again and again. I'm just like, that's like trying to capture lightning in a bottle. And I think that's what we expect comedy to do in a way where it's like succession season one, two, three, they're all succession. They've all been succession. It's not changing the game. It's just doing something at a very, very high, high level. Whereas with comedy, we're like, all right, where's the next joke? Where's the next like, where's the next surprise? People like to laugh. Look, this is what I'll say.

What do you think? So, there's a point in this, Earn is looking for DeAngelo. Yeah. And you can't access DeAngelo in a normal way. And this is kind of what I like about Atlanta. It's not kind of what I like, it's what I love about Atlanta. What Earn, what Atlanta is saying about DeAngelo, we all know it to be true. But it's like a cultural understanding that DiAngelo exists outside of the confines of what we would consider to be a normal musician. You know what I mean?

Like he is kind of a vibe. He's like a human vibe. He's like he comes out. He's got very easy, accessible songs. He remakes cruising by Marvin Gay, beautiful eyes and mine. he's got brown sugar. He's got all of these records and these records

is just great, right? Cool. Then he comes back out and then he's regular DeAngelo. Then all of a sudden he's like shredded, right? Yes. He comes back out and he's shredded.

Drops one of the greatest albums of all time. The greatest albums of all time. Living legend. Yeah. Like he's shredded and he does his video and people can't stop talking

about this video forever. The next time we see DeAngelo, he switched positions. He's gone from wide receiver to linebacker. He, he's, we don't realize he's with Angie Stone. He is like

a true force of black cultural nature and almost nothing that somebody would say about him, you wouldn't believe was true. If I told you right now, DiAngelo was dating Anna Wintor, you'd be like,

huh, I can see that. All right, but to be fair also, to DG Angelo, his life was destroyed. any time people would talk about him. It became about his abs, his sex appeal. And he's been very, very open about, like, he went into a very, very dark place.

Oh, no, for sure. But I put DiAngelo in a specific group of artists where we will accept more from them in terms of just, like, the weirdness. DeAngelo's in this. M.bdum is in this, rest in peace. Lauren Hill, J. Electronica. There's like, there's a small group of black

artist where there is something that we will just never be able to understand about that. And we just kind of understand it. You know what I mean? And so when I watch and earn on this on this, this, this, uh, this journey to find DeAngelo, it almost to me represented this journey to find that unspoken cultural thing that we all know. And like, do we still have it? I really got deep into this. He gets there. He hears a familiar sound. He sees a guy that is so into chicken

that he's into the part of the chicken. We all love the most, which is the skin. He's making a chicken skin sandwich. No, a chicken skin peanut butter and Lowry sandwich, which I almost beat, bro.

Disgusting. But we see this dude, like we see all of this, right? And then when he gets there, it's not the real DeAngelo. And so for me, the A plot and B plot,

almost tied together because it's like, are the things that we think are real to us or we're real to us, are they real anymore? Are there things that just sound like we remember them? Are there things that just look like we remember them? Are there things that just feel like we remember them? Like, what we're talking about right now? What is real comedy?

What is real soul music? What is, is Adel real soul music? Or do you have to have Jasmine Sullivan? Like, what is real comedy? art. And we're going on the same journey, but sometimes it feels like we're not getting the same feeling. And is it their fault or is it our fault? I looked at this. I watched this whole sequence so many times. It was, and I don't give a fuck whether or not I laugh throughout the show. The fucking show made me fucking think. But to be fair, Earned waiting for a week to see DeAngelo,

open up the locker and seeing Desani. I did laugh. Like, I was like, this is fucking hilarious. Dessani is disgusting. But what I want to talk to you about is Paperboy at the end of the episode. So Paperboy ends up finding a young white avatar, the Yodel kid. He wins a Grammy. The kid dies and overdoses.

And Paperboy asks Earn how he does this. How does he be a manager? You could tell like Paperboy is tired and kind of disgusted about what he's had to do. And Earn replies to him, I just remember it's not about what feels good. It's about what survives. And you have to go back and think about why Earn was on this journey to sign DeAngelo because he did not want to work on something that was so utterly racist.

So what does he do? He knows a home girl who got a connection with DeAngelo. Now, me immediately, I'm like, Earn, why would you want to sign one of our greatest black musicians of all time to this obviously racist company. It's going to help you, but it's probably not going to do anything to DeAngelo. DeAngelo gets there. Got to shout out the black man reading Jet, because there was a lot of Jet magazines in my grandparents' house. Shout out Jet. Anyway, you have to think about how there's a barrier. DeAngelo, the symbol of him going into that place, that is literally a symbol of what black artists of that ilk have to do

to protect themselves from bullshit. Urn doesn't want to ruin DeAngelo's career, but they put him through those paces because DeAngelo knows. The minute I let an urn sign me to this management company is the minute I'm thrown back into an industry that almost destroyed. If you look at their title of this, Born to Die,

the Young White Avatar is sure, they are a way you can get money. What happens to your? kid. He overdoses. Like there's literally you are watching the A plot, the B plot, what they do so geniusly is like,

hey, even if you do have a young white avatar, even if you are one of the greatest black musicians of all time, at the end of the day, you're both going to the same direction where the industry is literally going to spit you out. It's going to kill you. And that's what I liked about

Earn kind of like, he even gets that. He's just like, it's not worth it. At the end of that, he's like, no. It's just, this is not what I need to do. He literally the only thing that as a manager he can do and as a fan of music he can do is try to support stuff that can survive the bullshit. You know what's funny, though, when he gets there to the fake DeAngelo, and the guy's not real, he's not the real DeAngelo, he's waited all that time.

There was a skeleton up there of somebody waiting for DeAngelo. somebody who didn't have the cachet to understand, who wasn't culturally qualified to even get as close as what he got. When he gets there to the guy, the guy's not the angel, you know what he tells him? You sound good, though. I mean, it sounds good. I'm not saying you're whacked.

You're just not the real thing. I mean, it sounds good, though. You know what I mean? Like, it's not like, it's not like sonically. And we have this conversation all the time. It's like, bro, like, I mean, sonically is not whack, but does it give you that? fucking thing.

I remember when I was at your house and I'm like, we need to watch Ice Spice. We need to have this conversation. Right, right. When we watch Ice Spice, it's like, we watch Ice Spice. Man, shout out to Ice Spice. I mean, it's sonically, it's, you know, we got to talk about. Y'all haters. That shit ain't that.

We got to talk about the visuals when we talk about Ice Spice too. But, but. Jonathan Kerma just wrote Best Rapper Live. You horny ass motherfucker. Sit down. Y'all, y'all, I know what you all. I know what y'all on with this ice spice. I know what y'all on.

But yeah, so it's interesting to see how the show is, because the show is setting up for finale, right? I think the show is litigating authenticity. Like, is, we haven't gotten really to Darius yet this season, but was Ernst feelings about the white lady at the TSA, was that authentic or was that trauma jumping out of itself? You know, at the end of the episode, he says, I really need to go back to therapy. So all the stuff that he went through, his answer to the question was, I need to work on myself.

You know what I mean? Is any, in this situation, is what Earn wants authentic? If Superboy's career authentic, is Van and Ern's relationship, is it real? What's like, what's real? Maybe real is a better word. What's real? And, like, what's not? And I think that's kind of what this was about.

But you know what? To your point, it doesn't matter if it's real. or if it's not, one day it's going to be gone. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound tersephotide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity, or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems

to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zepbound contains terseptide and should not be used with other terseptide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach

pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor.

Call 1-800-545-9-79. or visit zepbounds.lily.com. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay with Hilton.

Welcome to your oceanfront room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprising. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for this day.

This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking. Maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home. With agents who close twice as many deals, when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at redfin.com. Own the dream.

I have not smoked. I am not high. I want to get meta on you then. Okay? Let me pitch you on something. So one of the rappers, I believe his name is bunk, tells Alfred, quote, your album would be better,

but no one wants to hear you because you old. You can never get bigger than your last album. Is part of this episode in a very meta way? I don't know if it's intentional or not. The life cycle of Atlanta is the life cycle of a black street rapper.

Oh, without a doubt. First two seasons, everybody's like, this is the hottest shit, this is the hottest shit. Third, fourth season, all we can talk about, all anyone can talk about

is Atlanta wash, is Atlanta funny anymore, does Atlanta have it anymore? Think about what happened in between those first two seasons. What happens on FX? Dave comes out. a show that is indebted to Atlanta

that is about a white rapper. So when they say your album would be better, but no one wants to hear you because you old, you can never get bigger than your last album, I do think part of this episode, whether it's intentional or not, is litigating the fact of like,

Atlanta's fucked. They will never be able to restore the feeling of the first two seasons in the same way, Nas will never be able to make Elmatic. There's a certain level of, like when you reach a certain level of culture, you will,

the audience will always be like, I want that feeling again, even though I'm like, the creators cannot do that. No one could give us that feeling again because we had never seen it before. It was something that we were experiencing for the first time.

And now that we're in the third or fourth season, we're all having this moment of like, oh man, I don't know, all these are, they're out of touch, they're not funny, they're not this, they're not that.

I'm like, that's how we treat Chief Keith. That's why they use Chief. Keith Keith in the PowerPoint. Like, think about it. Like, it's not, and I, that's probably why I like this episode a lot. Because it's like, Dave, the reason that nobody's going to be like, hey, Dave season three ain't, ain't hitting like that is because we never expected anything from Dave.

We never did. Well, to be honest with you, I think, I don't think we expected anything from Atlanta either, right? I think we were pleasantly surprised at what we got from Atlanta, and it was more genius than any of us thought. After, like there was a couple of commercials and then another commercial, I'm like,

yo, it seems like he's going for something different here. And then it came out. I think your Dave point is so amazing because of this. We talked about Atlanta as not really being funny anymore. And Dave is going for the comedy

on a level that Atlanta never even tried. Atlanta never tried to be, even when Atlanta was, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. When you really were laughing. Atlanta never tried to be as funny as Dave is. Like, you think about the funny episode of Atlanta when we could talk about things that made us laugh in the show,

but when his barber has taken them all around. That's totally different than the slapstick almost something about Mary-level comedy that you get in Dave, which is a very funny show, okay? And to your point, I do think that when I think about it now, this might be a commentary on that. Atlanta might be trying to subvert

that a little bit. But even when I said, like, we didn't expect anything from Dave where our expectations from Atlanta after those first two seasons are... Okay, after the first two seasons, yeah, for sure. Are you need to change TV every single time. Nobody is watching Dave being like,

Dave can just be funny. Dave can just exist. We have to kill it. Why people just get to have fun? Yodel kid quite literally just gets to exist and Yodel and he's about to win a Grammy. He's literally getting them through a door that they can no long, that they can't access. Most street rappers cannot access. For when you are black and you make something amazing, it's like, okay, cool, do it again. Do it again. But because, like, and that's why I think that this episode is really, really genius because it is

interrogating the ways that we talk about black art, the way we throw away black art, the way we literally, it's never enough. It's not even enough that DiAngelo gave us what he gave us. Right. What's there to manage? What is there to manage with DeAngelo? DeAngelo appears when he wants to, gives us what he wants and disappears. What's that to manage? But it's not enough. Right. But also in that situation, remember, the specter of going to get DeAngelo is saving earned. Yes. That's allowing earned to not have to be a part of a world that he knows he doesn't want to be a part of. So what happens?

But I'll ask you this. What do we expect from those levels of artists? We expect every single time Beyonce to come out that she's going to save us. She's going to say something that'll make us feel better about our lives. Absolutely. About what's going on with us. We need you to come with us. And sometimes and more often than not, we,

get there. Look, I think this was kind of a thing with Kendrick. If we're talking about Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers, okay? If I think this was a thing with Kendrick, Kendrick put out an album that mattered to him, songs that he liked, and people were like, yeah, but you're Kendrick Lamar. Yeah. Like, you're Kendrick Lamar. I'll even go back to Drake. Never has there been as anticipated. I think, the three most anticipated debut albums, I can remember in hip-hop. These are the three most ones.

I can remember. Doggy style, you weren't outside. I was not outside. You weren't outside. Classic album. Get Richard Dot trying, which was just like everybody just expected.

I've never, I've never seen somebody deliver on that level. Shout out to 50. I've never seen. No, delivered, yes, but was it expected or? Oh, Jesus Christ, bro.

There have been so much talk around 50 for so long. Wanks had come out. They dropped in the club. Like the anticipation level was off the charts. I wouldn't say it was the same for Doggy Style. Doggy Style was still probably the most anticipated debut in rap I've ever seen. Doggy style is number one.

And the third one is thank me later. I'm being for real. I'm not arguing with you because now that I'm thinking about it because like I don't think we had ever really seen like the mixtapes in terms of internet culture. we had never seen somebody be like, motherfucker almost got a number one song off a fucking throwaway mixtape and now we got to do the album.

And Drake said, Drake said, I remember the album came out and it's, it's okay, right? And Drake was like, yeah, I just think it was important for people to get through the opening process of the album. And they were like, what do you mean?

It's like the fact that they were opening the packages on their CDs and angels and butterflies and all of that stuff didn't fly out of it. You know, it's music. And so I think people, and I think about that, like, I think about the fact that these people that we look to, we really put, we're so connected to art. We're so connected to it that we don't just put our entertainment on their shoulders. We put our experience on their shoulders.

We don't just get let down when something doesn't meet our artistic expectations. we get betrayed. Let's be honest. When Kendrick dropped that album, it was like, I was on the TL, people was like, wait, is this it?

Is he dropping another? People were trying to, like, invest themselves. There was another album coming. I really liked the album. But I'm not talking about the quality of the album. I'm just talking about the chatter

around it. Yeah. It was not the chatter that like a good kid or a damn had. Let's be honest. No, it wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't.

And so to your point, I think a lot of that, like, is, like, think about what Earn went through to get to DeAngela. Like, he slept somewhere. He had to drink the bad water. All of that stuff, that's like black people shit. He slept uncomfortably. He had to drink the bad water. It's a dude with a perm sitting there.

Literally somebody gatekeeping him. That's like black shit. All of that shit is like black shit. And then you get there, and the only thing you want is the release. that this artist can give to you, and when you get there, it's not the real thing. I thought it was brilliant.

Yeah. And once again, it all goes back to when we think about not only this episode of Atlanta, but Atlanta on the whole, I'll ask you this. If we got born to die

in season two, it wouldn't have worked. No, but what I'm saying is if we saw an episode like that before the legend of Atlanta, was built, we think about it differently. Like, I like this episode a lot. I think it's among one of the best.

But our conception of who Donald Glover is, what the Atlanta creators are, what they've done, is way bigger than what it actually is in reality. And that's the same thing with a Kendrick. That's the same thing with a hove. That's the same thing with a lot of black art. Our feelings upon the shit that you gave us in the beginning of your career is different than when you've matured. And that's what I think a lot of this season is interrogating

because, like, what happens to Blue Blood? Nobody knows his album came out. He's been dead for five months. Blue Blood is a legend, and it doesn't fucking matter. I don't know we got to get out of here, but I want to ask you about one show, and I feel like, do you remember the reaction to Teddy Perkins?

Yes. Teddy Perkins was the first time, for me personally, that I remember Atlanta really, really shaking some of these niggas. Teddy Perkins was the one like, hey, bro, I didn't understand this one, bro.

What the fuck? Who was that guy? This is wild because I think Teddy Perkins is easily the best episode of Atlanta. I'm not saying it wasn't. I'm saying to me, I loved it, but people were like, yo, what's that? Like, it was, I remember even Kaliko was like, yo, that was scary.

like what like what will hell like what's like what's the deal and so I feel like this look I don't know I could I could wax poetic about what the shit no no I go because I'm interested because you are right when Teddy Perkins came out I think it was divided I think you had like the TV critic contingent who are like oh my gosh they have just reached a new level and then there was the other contingent of like bro where's my fucking show about being a rapper in Atlanta yeah what the hell does this have have to do with anything. And I, you know, and I think that Donald Glover and the rest of the crew

over there, Stephen and all the great writers that they have, they're rebellious artists. And they want more. It's very rare that creatives want more from you. Really, creators think about serving you, right? Yeah. They think about, hey, let's put a fucking dolphin in the movie. People like dolphins. But like when you get a group that wants more from you, and to be honest with you, that's what happens in rap a lot. Like what happens to rap a lot is you get out there and you have something to say. You don't give a fuck what it is, right? You're going to say it. You're going to, you're going to make people fuck with you because your rhymes, your production, your ethos, your message, your persona is so undenacted.

that they can't stop you, right? They can't stop it. They're going to come fuck with you no matter what. You hear in the club, you can't stop yourself, right? You hear heat, you can't stop yourself. After that, there's a point where you keep dragging them to you, and then there's a point where you start going to them. It, like, it changes.

It changes to where now, whether than come out and be the artistic rebel, you become the artistic slave because they want the thing that they came to you, first and you don't know how to change it and make them come back again. And just to kind of see that litigated, the way it's being litigated to me is really awesome to me. I mean, we see it in rap all the time. Drake just did it with honestly never mind where it's like he does one thing where it's like Drake is mostly throughout his career giving us what he wants.

He gives us the albums. Like he's just like, here's the fucking hit. Here's the club shit. Go. He gives us one fucking dance album and motherfuckersers is just like, what is this? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Kendrick is like, hey guys, I went to therapy.

I want to give you something special that like meant a lot to me. And we like, yo, where's fucking money trees? Where's DNA, Kendrick? Like, what the fuck? Like, you're talking about your aunties and all this shit? Like, nah, bro. And I did, when he did the auntie thing, he thought, I bet he thought people was going to be like, God damn, how refreshing the rapper.

They was like, nah. You get me? You did all of that? Like, you know what I mean? And it's like, come on, man. He kind of whiff. on that one politically and just quality of these.

I don't know. We can talk about it a different time. I think that it matters where that came from. And, I think intent, I think intent, I think on that record,

I think intent matters, bro. No, man. Br, I really do. I think, bro, on that record, I think intent matters, bro.

I think, it matters. And, you know, it doesn't save you, but it matters. You said he don't save. You know, All right. Last thing before we get

before we get out of here, I want to go back to the PowerPoint. It made me sad. Because like they used Chief Keefe and I'm like, let me look at. Can you, how old do you think Chief Keefe is? Probably about 25, 26. Is he that old? He was like 16.

Literally like 16 years old. Yo, Chief Keefe is 27. That's nuts. You know what I'm saying? Like, here's the thing. That actually. made me sad. That's fucking crazy, bro. Like, dog, that's so nuts that he's in his tornadoes.

I'm not, bro, like, I'm like, like, like, bro, that's so, even though I said that, I was expecting you to come back, he's 31, 32, but like, this was literally Chief Keith was blowing up. I want you guys, Chief Keith was blowing up. It was my first or second year at TMZ. Like, think about that. It was my first or second year at TMZ. And we got Kid Reid out there

The kid was like, is this kid Chief Keith from Chicago? I'm like, God damn. Yeah. But when they were going through those three stages, it was what makes that PowerPoint kind of hurt, but very funny is that like by the time Chief Keith becomes an OG, he's 27. And if you litigate it, where does Paperboy come from?

Paperboy comes from the streets. Motherfuckers are not survive. Most people aren't surviving if you're really out there. till you're 27, 28, 29, 30. You are literally old once you get to that point. Shit, you old at 18. Yeah. So it's like, if you, if you've been on the streets,

like, if you've been on the street living that life? Yeah, you old at 18. So that is also what I think is kind of the heartbreaking thing about this episode, where it's like, Paperboy survived. He's like, he's done it. He's like, Paperboy's like, what, late 30s? still young for a human

and the world, kids, white kids who are literally profiting off of a culture that Alfred helps survive and thrive. Just look at him

and be like, yo, sit in the corner, just collect your check, bro. It's our time now. And I'm like, yo,

I don't know, man, that's a rough fucking world to live in. That's crazy, bro. Another great episode. Another great episode.

The white podcasters are telling you, Van, yo, go sit in the fucking corner. Oh, shut up, bro. You're going to have some white substitutes for higher alert. We're going to get some white avatars in here.

Yo, dog, we should get some white avatars. We should. We should get some white avatars. We should. We should get some white avatars. Like, why not? I bet you, I bet you right now I can get a white avatar to do a podcast like I wanted to do it and that'd be twice as big. Joe Rogan.

It'd be Joe Rogan level doing the same shit, white avatars. Guys, that has been our episode of the Prestige TV podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to Van, as always, for bringing his old head wisdom. Thank you to John Kerma for being very horny for Ice Spice, but also producing this podcast. And, yeah, we'll be back next week to talk about the fourth episode of Atlanta. See you soon.