The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Atlanta’ Season 4, Episode 8

Episode Date: October 28, 2022

Van and Charles are back to dive into the eighth episode of the final season of ‘Atlanta.’ The guys discuss the racial history of ‘The Goofy Movie,’ the Disney character Goofy, the Ninja Turtles, and other cartoon characters they consider black, while also breaking down the episode itself. Hosts: Charles Holmes and Van Lathan Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to the Prestige TV podcast, a show where we have very earnest discussions. For weather, a 1995 classic, a goofy movie is the blackest movie of all time. I'm Charles Holmes at the Ringer Music Show. He's Van Lathen of Higher Learning with Rachel Lindsay. together we're known as the Midnight Boys. And we're here to discuss the final season of Atlanta. And on today's episode, we're breaking down the goof who sat by the door, directed by Donald Glover and written by Francesca Sloan and Karen Joseph Adcock.

Van, how are you doing? I miss you, bud. I missed you. Miss you too, man. Miss you too. I'm really, before I recap, like, what happened in this episode, the whole time I was watching this, I'm like, is Vand, like, is this? past him or like was he too old? Does he just not get this episode at all? Because this episode is

based on a goofy movie and I'm like, he must have been way too old to watch a goofy movie. So I've never seen it. I knew it. I knew it. And I've never, I've never seen it. I remember goof troop, the show. All right, yes. For background information, a goofy movie is based. on a goof troop, it's just a couple years in the future. So Max and his dad are a little bit older. He's in high school instead of being in middle school. Yeah. So I remember Goof Troop, okay? I've never seen a goofy movie. And I don't think I got it. I don't, this was, this was interesting to me in a way that, you know, you look at a piece of art and you're trying to

decipher like what it means, but I didn't get it. I'm not going to act like I understood. Like, it was so weird that it was fun to watch. It wasn't whack, but I didn't get it. Charles, I'll be honest. Did you get it? Not only did I get it. Instantly, this is a top five Atlanta episode for me of all time. Wow. I could not stop laughing. And what I will say about this episode is that the humor is so incredibly era-specific. And it's for a person who is so terminally online. While I was watching this, in the back of my mind, I'm like, there's like 1.5% of the population who will think this is funny.

And I am in that 1.5%. Like, why would this be one episode on your final season of TV? I don't know. But I will explain to the best of my ability, everything. But let's get into our impressions and what this episode is actually about. So it's a mockumentary about a fictional black animator and CEO named Thomas Washington. He's young and black and coming of age during the Rodney King riots. During this moment of social upheaval, he works his way up the ranks of Disney until he's mistakenly installed as the company CEO.

From there, Tom tries to make 1995's a goofy movie, the Blacks movie of all time, as he slowly loses his grip on reality. then where do we want to begin? Do you want me to just describe what this episode is doing or go even back further and describe what a goofy movie is about? So I want you to do some of the heavy lifting and then I'm going to come in and give some of my impressions of the episode. I'm not saying that I didn't like it because it was funny in a lot of ways in this weird, surreal sort of wink in a nod type of way.

but I'm not, I'm gonna be, I'd be lying to the podcast audience right now if I said that I got it. So go ahead. So a goofy movie, I remember like watching this when I was in kindergarten, first grade, whatever. Love this movie. It comes out at the tail end of the Disney Renaissance. The Disney Renaissance was like The Little Mermaid, Fine King, Beauty and the Beast. And essentially a goofy movie was, I think, very, very important to a lot of black children of the 90s. because most Disney characters are white,

and through a goofy movie, most people have kind of intuitive that goofy is black, and by extension, Max is black, because the big driving force of a goofy movie is that they want to see this artist's power line, who is a send-up of Bobby Brown, which you can tell. So you're just like, oh, why would Max,

like this very, very hyper-specific R&B artist? That is like why. this episode exists. It also exists because VED, before this episode, did you ever see the damn bitch you live like this meme? Yes, of course.

The reason that that is funny is because it is a lineage, a very early internet humor where people would draw Disney characters most specifically goofy as doing very black things, which is tied into, like flea market culture where you know if you go to a flea market you'll find

SpongeBob is black Mickey is black hence force hence force where I want to start though is did you know that Goofy was a racist caricature yes um it no what the fuck am I talking about like I never considered it who wait well I don't know why I just said yes that was podcast yes so no no that was podcast bullshit I've never I've never considered it before this Look, you guys, for everyone listening to the podcast, normally Van is able to, I am able to, excuse me, third person doucheback, I'm able to jump on and wax poetic and give you guys all these insights into the deeper meanings as I see them into sometimes, though, I got to get on here and be a human being. I never considered whether or not Goofy was a black stereotype. I did fables about the first black CEO, when they said, this when this first came on, I started looking that guy up to see if he was real. Well, that's the genius of the episode because I knew it wasn't real, but I started being like, wait.

I'm like, yo, did, because I know the lineage of Disney. I know the Michael Eisenhower situation. I know all of that stuff. I know that history. But I'm like, yo, you know, 92, what it was, did I miss a black CEO at Disney there for like six months? And I started looking it up. So what I'm saying is a lot of this stuff the episode drops on me is new information for me mixed up very intimately with this slightly farcical tale of the first black seal of Disney trying to make the, then he turns into goofy? Yes.

So did you, I was looking this up. So there is some history hidden in the mockumentary fictional aspect. So Art Babbit is the guy who was Goofy's original animator. And in 1934, he did write, quote, Think of the goof as a composite of an everlasting optimist, A Gollable Good Samaritan, a Halfwit, a shiftless, good-natured color boy, and heck. So that was real.

So I'm reading this from an article in Outline, crack.com had the same. See, I didn't know, I didn't know whether or not that was real. Because everything, I took that as being real at first. and then when everything else started happening, by the time he's partying in Disney headquarters with Adina Howard and Arsenio Hall, I'm thinking everything is a joke.

So, okay, so go ahead, yeah. So that part seems to be true. But it's mixed together with a lot of things that, like, when you do watch a goofy movie, there have been articles. Like, this isn't something that the Atlanta writers just created out of nowhere. There have been Twitter threads.

There have been Huffetton, posts and vice articles that were written about whether Goofy is supposed to be black or not, not just racially as a minstrel figure, but as he's gone on in history, all of these jokes have been in the ether. It just Atlanta takes what is, and they've done this before, what is a Twitter joke, and they exploded out. So, like, I knew this was a joke, but in the middle of the episode, you see Sinbad and Brian McKnight, and they got...

They got both of them. And you're just kind of like, this is obviously fake, but wait, what? Is it? Why are they here? I do think, do you think most people watching this are going to be like 100% fake or it's going to fuck up their perception? So most people don't interrogate their thoughts like you and I might because it's our job to interrogate our thoughts.

So they're going to be people that are going to be like, yeah, that was all. So me, I have the thought. Is this, because is this real? Because let me tell you what the genius of getting Brian McKnight is, is that Brian McKnight is a name that everybody knows, but it's not a name where you go, wow. But, however, he was invited to all the parties in 93, all the parties in 94, you know what I'm saying?

No, the genius of that joke is that it's not only Brian McKnight, but Brian McKnight explaining to a fictional character that he's listening to Tevin Campbell in like 93. Like that's a hyper-specific joke. And it's very black. Tevin Campbell is one of the guys who is, Tevin Campbell is one of those rare people that exist at the peak of black cultural significance.

And somewhere in white obscurity, like white people know Tevin Campbell, but we love. Tevin Campbell. Think about who introduced Tevin Campbell to us. Prince and Quincy Jones. Like, Tevin Campbell was our little singing brother who we loved and always want to figure that out.

Right now, if something happened tomorrow and Tevin Campbell won the lottery for $125 million, I would be the happiest man on the... I want Tevin Campbell to have TikTok... I want Tevin Campbell to have everything ever. He's the man to me. And so the fact that this guy feels that way about Tevin Campbell

is just very, very, very black. But I'm watching this and I'm like, yo, what the fuck am I looking at? Like, what's happening? You've never heard the Tevin Campbell, the real Tevin Campbell songs from a goofy movie. No. This is wild.

Because for a lot of white children out there, they know of Tedden Campbell from these very real songs. Like if you go on YouTube and type in Tevin Campbell, a goofy movie, like they had millions of views. This is a thing. Oh, so this, by the way,

I didn't even know, I didn't even get the joke of Tevin Campbell being a part of the goofy. I've never seen a goofy movie. So he, Tevin Campbell is the voice of Powerline who quite literally is a send-up of like, my prerogative Bobby Brown, which is like weird because this is a movie

coming out from the Walt Disney Company. Mm-hmm. I feel like this is, the weirdest thing I've ever had to explain to you. Nah, we on some real old man van shit. We need to drop right now because I'm just, so it's like,

so here's the thing about a goofy movie though. It comes out in 95, right? I'm 15. So it's not like I'm too old to have seen it. But at that point, I am getting to the point to where

I don't have time for that shit. But at, But at the same time, I'm not not watching cartoons, right? Because I'm watching the X-Men cartoons. You know what I mean? Like, me and the boys, while you were on vacation, we talked about Tarzan. I've never really seen that. You know?

What was the last Disney movie that you saw before you took an extended break? Like an animated one? Yeah. Well, I saw the Pixar stuff, but I would say the Pixar stuff got me going back. but I would say maybe what the Lion King was, was that I was maybe in the ninth grade when that came out. And I remember going to see that. That's probably 91, 92?

I don't think it's, nah, it got to be like 93. Okay. God be like 93 or 94 for the Lion King because I was in high school or, or just getting the high school. It's 94. Yeah. So that might have been, so the Lion King might have been my, my last joint with them.

Because after the Lion King, King, I never saw another traditional animated movie in the theaters until Princess and the Frog. You know what I mean? So everything else was Pixar.

Everything else, the Pixar stuff came out and you had to see it. It was so important to film that I saw it. But nah, man, I never saw a goofy movie. So I didn't even get the Tevin Campbell reference. I didn't get a lot of this stuff. I didn't get it. So there are things in the movie

that are like very much the plot. So it is true that Max, who is Goofy's son, is in love with a light skin girl, who many people, if you think Goofy is black and Max is black by extension, the light skin girl would be a light skin black woman. We already talked about Bobby Brown.

Goofy is a single father in this. So a lot of the stuff that they're pulling in is very real. There's obviously, there was never meant to be a whole scene where Goofy gets stopped by the cops and gets shot. That is obviously fake. But I had to go on Wikipedia and be like, wait, is the director of a goofy movie Black? He is not.

He's a white man. So what I want to ask you then, were you surprised that Disney gave the go ahead for this type of critique? Because there aren't, like, I guarantee you if you go on Google Trends today, it's going to be trending. Yeah.

Is Goofy racist? Yeah. I mean, another thing is it was some weird masochistic shit from Disney. You're watching this on Hulu, Disney, FX, Disney. It's all Disney. It's Disney, Disney, Disney.

Created by the Second Landau, Calarizian, like, Disney has, they have I think this says, I think I'm impressed by Disney that they were up for the joke. You know, I'm impressed with Disney that they were up for, Disney know where it was in 92. you know what I'm impressed for them

that they were up for the joke like it it really had the tone and the feel of an actual documentary from the stock footage to the interviews to it being the wraparound by the brilliant journalist that they had

so can I say something it's not this is why I think it's a top five Atlanta episode for me specifically it's not but I can understand why it would be for you yeah so if you under there's so many things that have to go right for this episode to be funny. The first is they bring back ban, which is their send up of BET, which appeared in the first season. Their send up of

BET, what they do with this documentary is this isn't just like any documentary. This is specifically like a BET documentary. Like the last VET documentary I watched was on the Rough Riders. And BET has a certain way of doing a cable style documentary that has to be like 40 minutes. it. And sometimes you're like, did this deserve to be an episode of like, of a documentary? So that's why it's funny. But you start with something that's very real, which is the racist caricature that Goofy

was meant to be. And the punchline that they end on is damn bitch you live like this, a meme that will forever be funny. But for it to be funny, Max has to be grown up. Looks like he's just walked off an HBCU fraternity line saying to his light skin girlfriend, Dan, that you live like this, which is obviously very real.

Everything in between that needs to thread that line. And I'm like, this is such a hyper-specific joke that you are almost saying that, like, Van, people that are your age or come from your generation above

will be like, what the fuck is this? Like, why did you devote 45 minutes to this? Hold on for a second. Let's get Kermen here. Because Kermen, is even younger than you. Kerm might be too young for the... Kerm, did you see the movie?

Kerm might be too young for it. So I saw the goofy movie, but an extremely goofy movie, the sequel, that's my goofy movie where, like, I watched that a ton growing up. They got, like, skateboard and all that shit. Max goes to college and goofy's there. So, that's my perspective. What the fuck?

So, Kerm, no, I watched an extremely goofy movie too. Great movie. Curb, did you understand the references that were going on in this episode? Not what you were talking about. like the internet memes, like I know that Dan Fitz you look like this, but I didn't understand that that's really what this is a play on.

But because I've still seen the original goofy movie, I just found it hilarious when they're showing shots of Max like dunk in the basketball and all that during the performance. And I'm like, oh, they really tried to make it really seem like the original goofy movie was black as fuck. Like, that was the goal of it. That's what had me dead.

And from somebody who didn't see it, it was working. Curr, did you like it? I mean, it was. I'm like, shit, man. It made me rethink the original one. I was like, did I miss this in the original? I'm looking at the movie. I'm like, is this real?

Is the name of this movie, My Nigger Goofy? I'm like, I'm looking at the, I'm like, God damn. And then they draw his, they draw his love interest. She looked black. That's what she really looks like. That's a little black girl. So, Kerr, did you like this episode? I can't.

I can't say confidently that I like the whole episode. There was a lot of spots where I was like dying, laughing at some of the jokes there, but I was also like the mockumentary style, it didn't fully hit for me. I'm going to be honest. All right. I will say also, this is coming from someone who watches a lot of the animation documentaries. So like, not only are they doing a send-up of specifically BET documentaries. They're doing one of like animation documentaries where you're like,

why are you making a fucking documentary about like a bunch of average shows, like just drawing? Like, here's the thing, though. You guys can't tell me. You guys can't tell me what I knew that this was about to be the most ridiculous episode is when Tom's friend is just like, yeah, Tom was obsessed. He was always coming to me like, damn, you don't know? Goofy's a nigga. And I was just like, my dog.

Nah, no, what got me, what got me was goofy, please. That shit had me dead, yo. Goofy please was funny. Hold on. I didn't say it wasn't funny. So, like, when the guy came in on the crutches and he's like, see, that's what I'm talking about. I made him go to a black cookout

to get to a black experience and he said the wrong thing he got his ass kicked. That's what I'm talking about. When he was up there, he was like, yo, look at my knees. This is the way you do it.

This is the way you do it. And there is something profound by the fact that this black CEO was getting a goofy movie made and then by the end, when he died, he had goofy, shoes and goofy gloves.

It's like, did he turn into goofy? So what I thought is basically which also one of the funniest things is like I have to send up like a special shout out to whoever the actor is who played Tom Washington

because the whole time he's doing a great job because he's, you only see him through photos because he's dead. So you're only seeing him through photos and you see the evolution of him from a dork to this guy who was suddenly like a millionaire CEO like standing on the table and it's just hilarious

but in a very Atlanta fashion what I took the end of this episode to mean is that he's slowly thinking that he's goofy which culminates with him in the them telling the story of how he was in the conference room and basically laughing like goofy to try to get this movie made And then the last video of him before whether he killed himself, whether he was killed by Disney,

is him saying like this is his life's achievement. He has to make this movie. And yeah, he wore basically the big shoes, the big gloves. And I think he snapped potentially at the end of it. He definitely snapped. He definitely, he, I mean, yeah. When the guy said he was laughing like goofy, he was saying goofy, please. even the even I laughed when it said

when they took the little prince and made it into a little prince Oh yeah I'm not saying the episode It wasn't funny Several times in the episode I'm laughing because like yo He brought the NOI into Disney

Like I'm like What the fuck I'm like He brought the NOI He brought the NOI He's like This is my head of security Like he brought the NOI

And the Disney Because remember in the 90s that was a thing. Michael Jackson had the NOI as his security. They did security for him. It was like, you can't tell me, like I started,

like I started gasping. I was just like, what the fuck is this episode? Yeah, the guy who had to draw several different daps. Oh my God. It was funny.

It was funny to me, but there was still, I kept waiting, kept looking at the runtime of the episodes, waiting for it to come to something to where it would all make better sense to me. and then I just had to say, fuck it, wherever it goes, I'm going with it.

You know what I mean? I was waiting for, like, paper boy to show up as a talking head and say, oh, I was a fan of this. Like, I was just like, this is quite literally, has the most tangential connection to Atlanta, the city,

because I believe they said Tom, Tom Washington, the animator grew up at Atlanta. So I guess that's the connection to the city, but I'm just like, This just seems like an episode that you wanted to make similar to band, but there's no paperboy or Darius to ground it in anything we know. It's just like, oh, this was like a skit that you guys wanted to do.

That's what I kept thinking, like it was a mad TV, SNL-type skit over 30 minutes. Yeah, and it works. I mean, it works in that sense. I think when you look at Donald Glover, they talk about scad in here. They talk about deep Disney stuff. and we see black creatives of the Donald Glover ilk with a very palpable connection to Disney, right? Like even Kanye West was always talking about Disney, Disney, Disney, Disney, Disney, Disney for a lot of people is the height of American creative power.

Not maybe American creativity, but American creative power. It's an entity that essentially is able to, this is what Disney really represents. When you're a kid, Disney invests, into you, right? They give you all of these things like that you, that like contextualize the world for you as a kid, right or wrong, right? They give you Bambi and the Little Mermaid and Lion King and all of these things. And then after they invest in you and give you

all of these stories, they then draw from their investment for the rest of your life. You know what I mean? They then, hit you up for the interest on that for the rest of your life. Like that little fuzzy feeling that you get when you see the logo, that little, like, when before a Disney show comes on and they put that castle in different places, it looks like this world where it's a moat and it's a fucking shooting star.

And you're like, and you think to yourself, like sometimes with me, there's a little sadness that that world isn't real. I'm like, I want to go there. Like, the whole thing. And to have that type of creative power, where whatever they do, you will invest into it. Sight unseen, you'll give it a chance.

It's kind of what every creative is looking for. So when you look at Donald Glover and he's talking about Disney in here, you can tell that there's things that he knows, right? He's talking about the way that you become animated. He's talking about the structures at this place. This is probably a place that creatives on that, level have all farmed over because really what they want is the Disney power.

They want them to be able to put a logo on something or say something for you to go, all right, I'm going to watch it. I'm going to give it a shot. The moment that Disney Plus came out, it destroyed all the rest of the streamers to me because I can go on there and get seven or eight different parts of my childhood. So to know that that creative and cultural power out there resonates and then to take a black man and put him at the head of that. And then for him to have a black-ass story where he loses his family, where he gets obsessed with trying to root the whiteness out of a place or make a, it's just, it's weirdly affecting in some way.

I don't get it because I don't get goofy, but like I understand it. This spring, Uber Eats has you covered, whether you're celebrating mom, dad, or your favorite grad. Not all of us are great planners. And with the Uber Eats gift hub, you don't have. have to be. Send flowers, perfume, champagne, or just their favorite meal straight to their door. Gifts arrive in as little as 25 minutes. And you can add a personalized video message for that additional so not last minute touch. So this spring, get a leg up on gift giving with Uber Eats. Last minute gifts that land every time. Must be 21 or older to purchase alcohol. Product availability

varies per regency app for details. I think what's happening is that the two of us come from a different generation where I feel like your generation was the first. to actually see the power of like Saturday morning cartoons where it's just like, oh, like, there's so much content coming to me right now, whether it's X-Men or Batman or whatever it is, a goof troop. And you're seeing this. And there's almost not enough time to be like, wait,

where are all the other races besides white people? Because it's like this is the first time this is being done before. When I get to that stage, I'm just like, oh, no, I take cartoons for great. granted, because there's so many. It's not like one or two channels. It's like there's fucking 50 channels where I can watch cartoons all the fucking time. So then you start asking the different questions of like, wait, where are the black characters?

So that's where you get, Piccolo is black, is Optimus Prime black, is Goofy black, is Skeeter from Doug Black. And what this, I think this episode is really interrogating is it's fucked up when you think about Goofy because if Goofy is a minstrel type figure, or at least that is, the comedy of the character was originally intended to be rooted, what does it mean when a generation that grew up on that picks up on it and then starts putting goofy in very stereotypically black settings for memes?

And it's not always black people who are laughing at that. And that is a very weighty thing to make an entire episode of. But I get it because there's that moment where Tom is drawing goofy in college. And what is it? It's goofy. in a barbershop. It's goofy doing all of these things that we know are very black

centric. So it's playing on that. But that is such a naughty thing to try to explain to an audience that either A was a part of the generation or B has never thought of like, can cartoon characters be coded as black, which obviously they can't. I mean, we all can

pick out the black cartoon characters. You know what I mean? Wait, but here's the thing. Do you really think that like, if you're 60, do you really think that like 60 year olds are like, thinking about, oh, what, what cartoon characters are coded as black? Like, probably not because, like, we are, the two of us are of the first generation where we have the Disney Plus.

You never stop watching the shit. Yeah, but that's not, that's neither here nor there. Like, I'll be 60 one day. And when I turned 60, I'll still know that Panthero was black. He's a black thundercat. Wait, did. Did your dad watch, uh, uh, no, no, no, no, he didn't. But, like, Panthro, like, Panthro was, Panthro was, Panthro was.

Panther was black. He's a voice by black guy. They need him to be black. He's black. I know the Panthero was voiced by the guy who played the grandfather on the Cosby show. He was black. They drew him black. He ballhead. It's black. Oh, wait. This is interesting. And I'm sorry if you have not listened to the Midnight Boys fantasy draft where we drafted black heroes. Please go listen to that. If you can say that Panther was black, which I agree, why wasn't I able to draft Pickolo was also...

It's a good question. It's a good question. The reason why you can't draft Piccolo is because whereas these characters are culturally black, really what they are, is a fucking mutant panther and then a guy from another planet.

We were talking about actual black characters, okay? And so what we can't do is the spirit of the draft, Charles, was to talk about characters that were actually black. Like, this is a black guy. Hey, Black Panther, Blade, Storm.

All right, those are the characters. Not the ones that's like, we know who you are. I mean, we know who they are. I don't agree with this, but that's fine. That is a great, that is a great defense. Then I'll ask you this. Is Bugs Bunny or Buster Bunny from Tiny Tunes Black? So this is my issue with bugs.

I went back and forth with this for a long, long time. Let me tell you why bugs has got to be white. Whoa, I disagree. Bugs would have been dead. Okay. Like, I'm serious. I'm joking. Bugs would have been dead.

Bugs is a cool white boy, like a Zach Morris. Okay. I thought about whether or not bugs was black bugs got swag, bugs is all of that. Bugs is like a, uh... You don't think 90s-era space jam bugs thirst and after light skin Babs is black. Nah, nah, man. Bulls would have been, but see, that's different.

Maybe that iteration. Is he a Justin Timberlake type figure where it's just like he wants to be down with the culture so bad? He's kind of like a Tyler Hero. Oh, yeah. He's like a Tyler Hero to where, you know, not Eminem because that's too much.

Like he's like a Tyler Hero. You know, Tyler Hero's girl is like this beautiful half black lady from my, Miami and he's with that's probably her. She probably is Lola Bunny. That's actually not a bad, actually that's not a bad costume for them. Tyler and Caddian Henry.

Wait, wait, Tyler and Cadja Henry. That's not like a bad like costume for them. He goes as bugs. She goes as Lola Bunny. They got a kid. It's fun. What are you talking about? Is that wrong? Anyway, if y'all see her, she looks like Lola Bunny

a little bit. But, yeah, but like bugs, bugs was so, like, he was so subversive. Like, he wouldn't have survived the 50s and the 60s and the 70s if he was black. They'd have bust his head. They would have, bro. Bugs talking that shit to you, eating a carrot in your face.

Like, it was like the whole thing. Bugs had to be, bugs had to be white. He had too much privilege, bro. This is very privileged. Yeah. Bugs had privilege. Mickey, the most powerful thing about this episode is that they, Mickey's race was finally established.

He said, Mickey, don't put that white boy in my movie. We know Mickey White. Mickey White because Mickey is white because Mickey has the whitest thing going for him. Is that we love Mickey and we don't know why. like Mickey is not cool Mickey is not smart Mickey don't have those at all

he got one and that's cool I'm glad that he's keeping it real with the one that woman in his life but Mickey Mickey is like a president they just give them to us and we have to accept it whether we voted or not Mickey was just

it's like here this is Mickey Mouse and we don't know why we love Mickey Mouse. It's like we don't know why certain things get us all fuzzy inside. You know, you see the Statue of Liberty. You're like, that's kind of cool. But why do I care? I was in D.C.

And I'm walking around in D.C. And I see like the Lincoln Memorial. And I see the Capitol building. And I see the Washington Monument. And I'm getting this fuzzy feeling inside. And I'm like, what the fuck? Why am I getting fuzzy? I mean, if you think about it, Mickey ain't have,

ain't have shit going on for like decades. You know what I'm saying? What's the last time Mickey was cool in the popular consciousness? I mean, Mickey, they just put Mickey on shit and you're like, oh, that's dope. They use other people's coolness to boost up Mickey. Like, you know, it's the mouse, it's like the Mouse Cateers that was Justin Timberlake. It was, oh, whatever. It's like the Mickey Mouse Club.

I'm like, oh, shit, that's dope. You know. Ducktails. Think about it. Ducktails. Donald was more popping with these. Donald is way cooler. And Donald is way cooler than Mickey.

It's not even fucking close. Are you nuts? Donald has a real point of view. He had real life problems. He was angry. He was middle class. He was middle class. Donald was way, Donald's way more relatable.

But Mickey is kind of just like, Mickey is the one like, why Mickey? Working on a steamboat back in the day? You know what I'm saying? It's like all of this stuff. Mickey definitely white, definitely. White. But once again, you go to Disneyland, right? You walk by fucking Chippendale, the rescue Rangers. You walk by fucking Donald. You walk by fucking all of these characters. Let Mickey,

and then Mickey dressed up in a suit too. You know he's a man. Let Mickey, let Mickey walk through the park. Don't even do shit, just waving. Kids go nuts. It's literally like he is, he is Walt Disney. And we know that Walt Disney. Had some questionable views. I mean, if we're going to be honest, this is the month of revealing who. Yeah, Walt Disney. I'm not going to ask you guys. I'm not going to, hey, I'm not going to go crazy.

Walt Disney had some questionable views. You guys could go look at yourself. They don't invite you to all these screeners. They barely invite us now. They can be like, yo, Van, Sitch, OS. It's not, there's not them now. You know what I mean? But I just, I don't think that Walt Disney would have,

would have been first in line to see Wakanda forever. Oh, right. All right. That's where we have to fucking... All right, before we go, last question. Are there any... While we're litigating this, are there any other cartoon characters

that you would like to claim as black before we go? Oh, what a fantastic question. Who? I would like to claim Wally as black. Wally? Yeah. What? Yeah.

Wally's a movie. Yeah, he is. To me, is. Explain. Well, first of all, he got a hip-hop name. Wild dash E. That's some shit that a nigger whose name was Wally, but he wanted to be hip-hop.

That's what he would name himself. Nah, it's not Wiley. You know how, like, you know how Flo Rider took Florida? God damn, I can't believe we let this nigga get away with this, man. I can't believe we let, I can't believe we let Flo Rider get away with. Flo Riders was popping. Flo Rida is one of the best-selling rappers of all time. I fuck with Flo Rida.

But I can't believe we let him get away with taking the state of Florida, putting a dash in the middle and then making it a rap name. Flo Rider. It's genius. And at the same time, I was like, yo, were we distracted by the Obama administration? Like, where we just weren't paying attention? He's like, his nix's name is Flo Rider. So think about it.

If my name was Wally, I'm like, bro, I'm a rap, but my name is Wile. All right, we are off track. I'm going to give you, I'm going to throw you something. That's my answer. I'm going to lob you some. Elmo, Elmo, Black or not? I think Elmo is black. Elmo definitely black, but you're not a cartoon character, but that's still, that's still, you know. Arthur.

Talking about I don't know him. Arthur, the Hardvick? You don't know the artwork? Nah, man. I don't know Arthur. You don't know. It's a wonderful kind of day? Never.

Nah, I'm not. I don't even understand what the fucking purpose of the fucking cartoon is. I've never seen one episode. I don't know Arthur. I don't know. Shout out to that man. I don't know that man. Jerry from Tom and Jerry.

Yeah. Jerry, really? I think Jerry is... I think Jerry is black. I think Jerry is black because he is perpetually in fear of his life. And he is always having to outwit the cat trying to kill him. Then what would the dog be?

I'm not sure. Sure, the dog might be, you know, one of a different culture that's just watching us go back and forth and not really stepping in to be an ally. But like, but Jerry is always running for his life, but he does it with swag, right? Jerry is swag. And also he's got second billing. It's Tom and Jerry. So it's like, you know. All right.

Last one. Last one. Let's see. I want to give you a good one. Michelangelo from the Ninja Turtles. I don't think it's Michelangelo. I think it's Raphael. Raphael, really?

Yeah. If you saw the Ninja Turtle's movie, it's obvious that it's Raphael. Is Michelangelo's like a surfer dude? Like, you know what I mean? Like besides Tyler the Creator, who you know that's Black and Surf? Shout out to the Black Surfers out there.

It's a movement. It's starting. But yeah, Michelangelo is, I think it's Raphael. I think Raphael is the Black Ninja Turtle. Why does he? Wait, the angry one? Yeah. Why does it?

Wait, why is the angry one got to be the black dude? Go back and watch Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles the movie. And then you tell me that Raphael is not the black Ninja Turtle. Of course it got to be the angry. Got to be the angry one who can't control his temper who asked me the black one. Have you seen Teenage Mutantia Turtles the movie? Have y'all seen the movie? Yes.

You've seen that? I have not. Bro, how the fuck? You know, it's like I get that I haven't seen a goofy movie. be, but these are the classics, Kerr. Yo, I hate what niggas do that to me. They go, these are the classics. That means your ass 20 years younger than me,

you have to have known it. Nah, bro. But you know what, though? That's what, though. That's what I'm going to tell you why that's bullshit, though. That's bullshit, though. I was born in 1980, right? Mm-hmm.

And so, being that I was born in 1980, it was mad shit from the 60s. All that, so the Flintstones, you heard of the Flintstones, right? Yeah, I've seen Flintstones episodes. Nigger, they from the 60s and the 70s, niggins, Scooby-Doo. Don't fucking play me, Kerr. My point is, my point is, you can't just assume that every single classic is just going to be.

And my day, it was hot. Like, every young niggas got to know this. It's got to be on the list. And my day, it was hot. You little motherfucker. Kern, you got to come to the crib and watch the Teenage Me Ninja Turtles movie, bro. All right, bro. Same way.

Same way. And after that, we got to watch Teenage Me Ninja Turtles. two, the secret of the ooze. Wait, is that the one with, is that a, but no, ice? Oh, my God. Let me tell you all quick story real quick. We're living in California at this point. And my dad, rest is so, right?

My dad goes, hey, son, what you doing? And I'm like, nothing. He was like, want to go for a ride with your daddy? And I'm like, yeah. The movie had just come out as the first weekend. No plans to see it. I wanted to see it so bad. So my daddy, my daddy gets in the car with me and we start driving and we go to the mall.

I'm like, well, some of the mall, he's like, no, I'm just got to meet a man here, pick up some money. My father had his own business, so he would pick up money from guys in all kinds of different places. Sometimes he'd have to pay a guy, meet me here, whatever, whatever. And when we get there, we go to the movie theater. And he was like, should we see a movie? and I'm like, what? And you're like, I know you like them Ninja Turtles. Let's see them Ninja Turtles.

And I'm like, huh? And he's like, yeah, you want to go, boy? I'm like, yeah. And we go in there and we're watching the movie. And all of a sudden, vanilla ice comes on. Yo, it's the Green Machine. We're going to rock the town without being seen. Have you ever seen the turtle get down?

And you still remember the fucking song, bro? Yeah. Ninja. Ninja. Rap Go go Go go Ninja

Go ninja Go ninja Go ninja Go And so I And my father laugh

so hard Like no bullshit I got up And I started dancing in the

I was so fucking hyped I was so hyped And now of course Vanilla Ice

is a Trump supporter So, like, this whole waste of my life. I was so, were you doing, like, the hammer, like, back and forth? Just, like, freaking out. I was, bro, I was busting out that. I was busting out the Roger Rabbit, bro.

I was doing, like, they were doing the ninja because they were doing ninja moves. I was doing the ninja moves. You know what I'm saying? I was going insane, dog. Because I was really going nuts. And my dad was like, if my dad comes home, My dad laughed the whole way home.

We get home, he's like, Crystal, Crystal, you got to come down here and talk to this boy. He's just laughing. He's like, this boy didn't have been about lost his mind. And I was still so excited from the movie that I was kicking around the house and dancing around the house. And they were just laughing their hands off, man. Do you still think Teenage Mutuals Turtles 2, Secret of the Ouse is a good movie? Yeah. They both good.

Because, like, they were, I'm gonna be honest, like, so there's a third one that's not as good, but those movies were ahead of their time. Like, they were. Like, at the time that, like, that movie, that that movie came out, the fact that they weren't, that it, that, the wave now is to do it, we're way off topic, but that's okay. You guys are listening to a podcast. The wave now is to do live action, um, uh, live action, like animated movies. but like nobody had done that then, right? So it was like... You mean men dressing up in big green turtle suits

and kicking each other's asses? I know, but it worked. And there was two movies. It was like, I'm telling you, it was Masters of the Universe that came out a couple of years before. It was a new wave. And that movie, the way that the turtles worked, the fact that the turtles were cool

and they had personalities, the effects and all of that stuff, the movie was ahead of its time. The movie really worked. Whatever, bro, fuck y'all. This is coming from the fan of Howard. the duck so. How old the duck was that, nigga?

I don't give a fuck. What y'all say? I'm gonna come on. I'm gonna make y'all come over and watch the movies I like to watch. You know what I'm serious, bro. Kerm, you got to, you go. I watch it, but you can't be mad when I tell you as mid and old and shit.

Like, you can't, you can't have it both ways. Nah, I'm not about to be mad. There's, I guarantee you right now, Kerm. All right. I bet you $100, but you have to promise to keep it real. I bet you $100 right now. that you will watch the original teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie

and you will love the original teenage Mutantia's movie. Wow. It's a great, there's no way you don't like it. It is legitimately a great movie. Well, guys, this is the podcast where we go on Wild Tanger's talking about it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, guys. Ninja Raps.

A fascinating episode of Atlanta, I can't say I liked it, but I can say I was wildly entertained. I loved it. Hold on. I can say that I liked it. didn't get it. We didn't even talk about the fact, and I have to mention it before we go, we're running a little long. That's fine. Y'all got me in reminisce mode. That we had, coming off Snipe Hunt, which Charles, you weren't here to recap. But coming off Snipe Hunt, we had a real sort of connect energy behind tapping back in with our characters. Van, Earn,

we had a couple of episodes in a row where we hadn't had an anthology episode like this. So I'm am and the show was on a role. Most people were talking about how great it is. I am interested to see the reaction that some people might have by getting off of that momentum a little bit and going back to some of the things that they did last season. Before we go, Charles, what do you think about that? Do you think people will respond to that? I think snipe hunt was one of the most beautiful episodes. And shout out for Cal filling in for me.

It was an episode where it was like, it was one of the first episodes where I was like, they come. couldn't have made this when they were in their, like, early to mid-30s. Like, this is a beautiful episode about love, about Black Love, that it takes a certain level of maturity. So when I was watching it, I was like, I was blown away. It was one of those beautiful things about getting to see Black entertainers create things over a long span of time because you get to track how they change his characters. But I do agree with you that, like, this is an episode for me that I think is Laugh

Out Loud Funny, but I do think. there might be people who are like this stop the forward momentum because we got to be real. We're learning stuff about Earn, about Van, about Paperboy, about Darius that I honestly thought we'd never learn about. But I trust them. We have how many more episodes left? Think three? This was seven?

Yeah. This is eight. Oh, so we got two left. We got two left. Yeah. God damn. All right. All right.

Well, we will be back next week to talk about the penultimate. episode of Atlanta, the final season. Thank you so much to Kirm, aka the Teenage Mutiny Ninja Turtle Hater. Shout out to my co-host, Van, who always has the greatest stories about Vanilla Ice and or which

cartoon characters are black. And I'm Charles Holmes, and we will see y'all next week. Real quick, just let you guys know. I just saw this. Disney announced today a $1 million grant to Fam U School of Journalism and five years to establish the Disney Storytellers Fund at FAMU, which is a historically black college and university.

Disney's trying to get ahead of the story. They don't want you to know the truth about Thomas Washington. Bye.