The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Bad Monkey’ Season 1 (So Far): Enchanting Manatees, Tom Petty Covers, and a Dragon Queen

Episode Date: September 12, 2024

Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney put on their best floral beach shirts to recap the first six episodes of ‘Bad Monkey,’ starring Vince Vaughn. They discuss what stands out the most in the Apple TV+ crime drama, how the central mystery still remains compelling, and why Vaughn is the perfect fit for Andrew Yancy (1:38). Along the way, they talk about the folksy narration style that accompanies the story and whether or not it works (20:08). Later, they look ahead to what the rest of the season may hold (39:01). Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney Producer: Kai Grady Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna. I am Rob Mahoney. We're here not to talk about slow horses, but rather bad monkeys. It's an entirely different show. We'll be here twice this week. We do have a slow horses episode this week. There's a lot going out of the prestige feed this week.

Please reserve your thoughts and prayers for poor Kai Grady. He is working very hard on this feed. But Rob and I got, you know, the old message, the old bat signal last week to say, hey, are you watching Bad Monkey? Would you like to talk about it on the prestige feed? And I was like an excuse to hang out with Rob Mahoney and Kai Grady some more. Yes, please. So here we are.

Plus to talk murder? Come on. Oh, we love a murder. Okay. So we're here to talk about Bad Monkey up through episode six. But before we get into that, in case what people are just dropping in, you know, this is unusual for us. We're dropping in mid-season.

We might, you know, we'll see how everything goes, but maybe we'll do an end-of-season wrap-up as well. But just before we get into these specifics, Rob, I just wanted to, like, if people are like press play, maybe thinking this was the Slow Horses episode or whatever, and they haven't watched Bad Monkey, like, A, how would you describe it? And B, would you recommend it to people? I would recommend it to people.

I would describe it as kind of like a fun, vibey, twisty murder mystery that is extremely Florida-coded, even though I guess part of it takes place in the Bahamas, but very Florida energy coming off of this plot, led by Vince Vaughn, but kind of a buddy cop dynamic with him and Natalie Martinez, who I really, really enjoyed getting to know a little better on this show. I love her performance.

It's really fun. It's really funny. It's light and airy. It's really interesting coming off of slow horses, which is so British. And this is an incredibly American sensibility, but in a similar sort of mystery plot unraveling way. I love that. Yes, this is an hour-long 10-episode season, adaptation of the Carl Heisen

book Bad Monkey, Showrunner E is Bill Lawrence TV legend. You may know from Scrubs or Ted Lasso. I'll talk about that a little bit more in a second. If you're like, why is Zach Brough here, that's why, Bill Lawrence is why. Anyway, so Vince Vaughn plays a detective who is basically sort of because he can't help himself and kind of demoted and ostracized all the way down in the span of this season a bit into like restaurant inspector, food inspector. Is that under the jurisdiction of the police department?

Perhaps in Florida. All bets are off down there. When Justin Sales approached us to ask us if we wanted to cover this, I actually got excited because this was actually on my short list when I sent you guys over like a couple shows that were coming up that maybe we would cover. This is on my short list because of Bill Lawrence,

because of Vince Vaughn, and because of Carl Hassan, who's an author, really, really like. I went through this whole, like, dad author phase when I was a kid, you're Michael Crichton, you're John Grisham's, and Carl Hasson, was definitely on the list. And if no one has ever read his books or watched some ill-begotten adaptations, like Strip T's or Hoot, which really did not capture

the full Carl Hasson experience, I would say he's like the Elmore Leonard of Florida, except Elmore Leonard is already the Elmore Letter of Florida. So it's like if you took Elmore Leonard and Jimmy Buffett and the columnist Dave Barry, another dad author who I really liked when I was a kid, and John Muir, the environmentalist, said, put them in a blender. Wow. You get a delicious, frothy margarita that is Carl Hesse. And I have subsequently found out that he was actually friends with Jimmy Buffett and his good friends with Dave Berry as well. But, like, that's the vibe.

Is that what's sort of coming off the screen for you, Rob Mahoney? Yeah, I mean, honestly, very beachy. And as you say, very naturalistic, very oriented toward animals. And they're, like, their fate and the way that they are affected by humanity. And specifically, like, the more ghost tacky elements of being in Florida and the way that infringes on, like, the habitat and the wildlife is something that a lot of characters are very concerned with to the point that we get an enchanting confrontation with a manatee.

You know, like, I'm not mad about it. So, yeah, so we're here to talk about up through episode six in which said manatee encounter occurs. So episode six, which is titled, Yo, would you tell Miss Chase, I still love her like crazy? So great stuff for all of us and for Michelle Monaghan. So this episode, we're roughly past the midway point. This is a 10 episode season.

What is standing out to you is like the biggest, strong point of bad monkeys so far. I think for me it's in a way like the sloppiness of the master plan that's been the core of the story so far. Like this is not a bunch of proven schemers who really know what they're doing. It's a bunch of very desperate people in pretty haphazard situations. And as a result of that, you know, our primary kind of anchor into the story is through Vince Vaughn's character, Gansy, who's like the kind of detective who can't stop asking questions and

like can't help himself but investigate even when he's taking. technically now a restaurant inspector. And for him to unravel this thing through bone fragments and shark teeth and pussy magnet chains, like, that's the way that I want to unravel a mystery. And so I think how hastily assembled the ultimate scheme was makes it very fun to pick apart and makes it very fun at this story where we're six episodes in. And honestly, the who done it has been pretty much solved. I think we have a good sense of who committed what crimes here.

and now over the back part of the season, it's just a matter of, like, who has their comeuppance? And in this world and in the ethics of this show, I'm honestly not sure. I haven't read this particular book. I thought I had, but I hadn't read this particular one. And so I'm, like, you know, vibing along with the rest of us,

I don't know how this is all going to unfold. But it's not a theory show, but in as much as it's sort of a mystery, murder mystery show, then it, you know, can invite theories. And there are some things that I felt well, well ahead of the show on, like the fact that Rob Delaney

was actually playing, you know, the alleged murder victim who's still alive, dun, da, done, all that sort of stuff like that. But I had a theory disproved, I believe, in this episode where I was waiting

for like one more twist of the knife. And I got to say, I was worried about Rahelio. There was like, right? There was something about the way that he like kept trying

to put Yancey off the case that I was like, I was waiting for the betrayal and the fact that we get this sort of mini betrayal and then Redemption in episode six. I'm like, okay, he's off my suspicion board. I don't know if I will then, like,

if there's going to be a double twist and I will be proven wrong, but I was just sort of like, Rahelio, I love you as a character. I don't trust you because of X, Y, Z, but I think I was incorrect about that is where I'm standing right now. He seemed like a natural candidate to be on the ominous, big old ledger list of bribes or something like that,

or people who had been leveraged somehow in the construction, like the would-be construction of this resort and all the machinations that are required to make it happen. It did feel like it was going that way. So I appreciate the rug being pulled out from Munderis on that. Yeah, like a good guy who just got sort of like drawn into something that he was in and over his head about and stuff like that

and like that he would betray Yancey but feel terrible about it, which is sort of what happened in miniature in this episode. I want to talk about the Bill Lawrence piece because Bill Lawrence, again, like an absolute legend in TV making. And the TED Lassau part of it is kind of interesting to me because, you know, I don't know how fully, fully, fully it's been reported. But basically he was kind of pushed out of Ted Lassau at the end, which is a shocking thing to hear about someone who is like as experienced as Bill Lawrence is. But I feel like you can draw a line between, you know, the the long line description of Bad Monkey on like Rotten Tomatoes is mentions like Vince Fawn's motor malice. charm, like the perfect vehicle for Vince Vaughn's motor mouth charm, which I would agree with.

And I think motor mouth charm is something that you could use to describe the Ted Lasso character as well. Give or take the charm, I would say. Okay. So that's the point is like, I feel like most people agree that Ted Lasso kind of fell off a cliff at the end. And like, this is so strong and successful. And I was like, if you're looking for the missing element of the end of Ted Lasso, I think it's

the steady guiding hand of Bill Lawrence, who knows exactly. sort of how much of that kind of character archetype is too much because Carl Heist's world is just filled with a million different subplots. That's just sort of like his novels always go down all these little like nooks and crannies and back alleys. And this show is happily done that as well, which means that even though Vince Fawn is like without a doubt the star, Yancey is without a doubt our main character. There's just a lot of attention to go around. It's not quite Raylan Givens where we're with him for the majority of the time. We're spending much more time with all these other very lively characters. And I think that sort of chemical balance is something that Bill Lawrence

has always been good at in his ensemble shows. I think that's a huge part of it. And if we're talking about, I didn't expect to get pulled into the Ted Lassow. Sorry. No, but it kind of works in this way because I think that part of that show's problem is that as it goes, every other character adopts the comedic sensibility of Ted Lassau himself. They all start making the same pop culture references. They all start having the same joke styles. And this show is not like that. Like Bad Monkey is incredibly voicy.

And if anything, they're playing the discrepancy between the characters for laughs. It's like Eve's Eddie Murphy reference point is Norbit being a laugh line. It's something that the show can play with. And you would never mistake a joke on the page from one character as being from another. Like Yancey, for as much as he talks and as snarky kind of rat a tat as all of his dialogue is, it's kind of a miracle that your six episodes in. And it hasn't gotten old at all. I have not tired of it at all.

A lot of that is Vince Vaughn, but a lot of that is really singular voice-oriented writing. I think that's a really good point. I think there are some of those characters and act performances that are really leaping out on the screen and, like, sort of grabbing you by the throat. sometimes in the detriment of others. So I will say subplot-wise, I think the equation is really well-balanced

and there's little things like Heather with the weather, like that whole payoff that is just sort of like dropped a few times and then like has the payoff and we may or not be done but probably are done with Heather with the weather and all that stuff. She didn't get shot in the throat.

I know, but like are we going to get justice for Heather? I don't know. That's the question. That's what the weather is for. The hurricane is going to bring the hands. camera show. Heather herself is done for sure. Anyway, that stuff is all great. I guess the one question mark I have about Bad Monkey as it stands right now, six episodes in, is with the Neville side of it, because the way that the show is pitch in the beginning and we've got this narrator, a character, which is Tom Nowicki's Captain Fitzpatrick, is also narrating the show, which I love, I'll come back to a second. But like, he's sort of establishing Neville's storyline, Neville, the owner of the monkeys, storyline as sort of co-lead of the show to a certain degree. But I would say thus far, he's just like at the end of this episode six,

like sort of hooked into, you know, everything that's going on with, with Yancey, um, et cetera and Rosa. But like, I think Jody Turner Smith's Dragon Queen is just sort of sucking all the oxygen up on the island. I love her. I think she's amazing. But I was like, I can't even pay attention to Neville because all of this is going on over here.

So do you know what? Like, what do you think about that? I mean, she is stealing every, every second of every scene that she's in. Yeah. And like, I mean, I look, I, Jody Turner Smith, I was not familiar with your game. I apologize. For one, I don't think she's had a chance to play characters quite like this before. Like, Queen and Slim is not exactly this.

So you're telling me you didn't watch every single second of the Acolyte early this year? I apologize. I did not make it to the Akelet yet. Was that a mistake? I mean, mixed back. But she played like a leader of a witch coven. There's definitely some connective tissue. Yeah, that's very fair.

Tissue between the two. You're an after-yang head, right? Like, you seem like you would have been an after-yang guy. No? I am spiritually an after-yang head who has not yet seen after Yang. So I need to rectify that. Very much your shit. Very up my alley, to say the least.

Talk to me about Jody, yeah. I mean, it's just never been clear or faster that a character is not to be fucked with. And I don't even know if that's entirely true. What she accomplishes is mostly through like cold stairs and ominous sorts of dismissals. Like she doesn't actually show a lot of magic per se, at least in the version of the story we've seen so far. And I'm like, I'm terrified of her and captivated by her every second that she's on screen. Like what a character and what a performance. I love it.

I think she's wonderful. Another side character who I love more for like I'm so proud of the actor than anything else is Alex Moffat, who is one of my favorite. who was one of my favorite Saturday Night Live cast members who I just felt like never really got his due on SNL. One of my favorite weekend update

characters was like guy with a boat. Like he's just so funny on SNL and I was like so excited to see him not only in the show, but like in every episode of being an absolute piece of shit which is something he's really good at as this sort of neighbor developer

with the complete eyesore of a building next door to Yant see, easy to fuck with, and just, like, extremely, like, when he's, like, fishing around in the water for his cell phone, I just... I hope you find my phone,

just, like, a really good, a really good exchange in this episode. Any other side characters that you want to call out that you're really enjoying? Well, first of all, I have to say, as far as our friend, Evan shook, like,

this is a show full of parables, full of, like, what life in the Keys is all about. If a man in a suit ever tries to hit you with the big dog, that's a no. It's a wrap. That's a wrap.

They're pretty much done for me. I mean, we have to talk about Zach Brough. Yes. It's not the role of his career, professionally speaking. They're obviously more important parts that Zach Brath has played. But I think this might be as good as he's ever been. I think this is the best thing he's ever done. I genuinely do.

And I know we've been, we already mentioned Scrubs a couple times, which is like his most favorite TV role. He's also responsible for everything that is Guard and State for Good or For Guadryl, mostly given how old I was at the time for good. Is that a net positive for the history of humanity? Do you think, like, where does Garden State met out in the ledger? The soundtrack is bumping. I mean, do we get Peter Sarsgaard in presumed innocent early this year

if it were not for Garden State, which did a lot to put him on the map? So if Garden State did or did not exist, would that mean that she did or did not consume the rankgoon? I mean, I think it's a question we all have to ask ourselves. We really do. What if she never consumed the Rangoon? Garden State got a lot of shit, but I was the exact right age for it personally, and it was really cool to hate it. But I think people are coming back around to like, come on.

It wasn't, it's not, it didn't deserve that, whatever it was, but it got the whiplash that it got in pop culture. But yeah, Braff is great in this show. It's really, really good. And he's not, I mean, with love and respect, he's not a performer that I'm usually like, I can't wait to see what Braff is up to this time. But like, this, you know, his, his old boss, Bill Lawrence,

I mean, and like Scrubs, he's doing a Scrubs podcast. Like Scrubs is very much back in the, like, nostalgia machine right now. But I love that Bill Lawrence tapped him for this role. I think it's a perfect vehicle for him. And also to, like, see the complete dissolution of that character when we first meet him.

And then to get the flashback episode, the kind of episode that actually often I dislike, everything feels like it grinds to a halt. Yep. This was actually really fun, I thought, for a couple different reasons. One, Rob Delaney had been playing such a grim character, which is so against his type for much of the season, as Nick, aka Christopher, aka the one-armed man.

And so to see this flashback to be like, oh, no, he was once a more jovial Delaney-esque archetype before everything happened here was a really fun journey to go on. I think it takes a lot of things that were very one-note, as you say. Like Delaney's performance is sort of this ominous, moustachioed guy. The almost like pure comedy beat that Zach Graff is giving to that point as this sort of like pill-popping former like crooked doctor. Yeah. It takes it from this joke and like a cameo that's very funny and very enjoyable into getting the whole story and the full circle of him like closing his eyes and accepting the fact that his best friend is going to shoot him in the back of the head.

something very poignant and sad and a real character out of basically nothing. And I think you could say the same for Nick slash Christopher, Nick Stryfer, as I have referred to him in my notes, and Eve, who we have no idea of really what their personalities are or their motivations are until we get into that flashback. And I think we see, for one, yes, they, like many characters in the story, are absolute hot messes in a way that I think drives good plot and good story. but their love story is actually kind of sweet and I kind of enjoy

I actually think there is a bit of sincerity at the heart of it before it devolves into obsession and like sociopathy if I can zoom out on myself for a second Please Rob Is that maybe in part Because I'm sitting there watching

Her give him a dance at a club To Feel this moment, a song which I have to say It's probably one of the best pop hoax of the last 20 years You know, there's an alchemy there that's happening on me. I'm willing to acknowledge it. Okay. But there was something fun and enjoyable about their kind of whirlwind romance that I wasn't expecting to fall into. It's definitely fun.

I love the payoff of the fake crying. Yes. Her background is like an actress. All of that stuff is really fun. I don't know that I'm buying in any of the love story because it feels like Eve would turn on him in a second. if it benefits her schemes and her plans. Feels like she's been using him and pushing him from the start. But he's not, I mean, whatever, he deserves it.

He's not an innocent. He's along for the ride. He's doing all this shit. They're both terrible people. Yeah. But the kind of terrible people who I don't mind watching have whatever version of a relationship that they have. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigue, ask your doctor about zeppbound, terseptide, the first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep

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Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton for the stay. I want to go back to the narrator aspect,

because Tom Nowiki, so there's two guys in this show who are giving me, and I have not spent any time in the fine state of Florida, but giving me strong, strong, strong, strong Florida man energy. And it's this Captain Fitzpatrick character, who's the narrator, played by Tom Noikey, and then, of course, our guy, Scott Glenn. Yeah. As Gensi Senior, it's the year of Robin Joanna talk about Scott Glenn as like a spooky, weird, mystical father figure. given that we just talked about a couple episodes of leftovers earlier this year. How is that Florida man energy working for you

from these two guys? Extremely well. I think to the point that maybe from a plotting standpoint you could almost consolidate them or something. They are very similar in the role that they play and honestly in the literal voice that they are providing in the show. I sometimes forget who it is that is

narrating this thing. I will say if you jump into Bad Monkey and you hear the voice over narration in episode one and you kind of twitch a little bit. Like that's not for everyone. I know those presentations can be very jarring. I do think you settle into it, this sort of folksy narration style. I also think they turn it down a little bit when there's just like a little less sort of explaining that needs to be done, you know? Absolutely. And it is a big part, I think, of what allows the story at times to play like a novel, where you can either zoom all the way out to get a sense

of these parables and these lessons and what life in this area is like, or you can zoom all the way in to like, what is, you know, Bonnie thinking in this moment? Like, what is going through this character's head in a way that you can't always just play across an actor's face?

And so I think it has its role. I think it's something that feels more and more comfortable and they get more and more comfortable to your point, Joe, as the show goes on. And I'm kind of into it at this point. Like, the justified comps are clearly there, I think, and Elmore Leonard, as you mentioned, that DNA is all here.

It also ends up in this place that's kind of Florida Veronica Mars for me. And I think it's a narration style thing. Obviously, there's no high school and the drama is turned down overall. But the whip smart dialogue plus building a case outside the law, that feels sort of PI coded in a way that's going to feel very familiar. I think we'll feel very comfortable as the show goes on. Veronica Myers Rewatch podcast, what? You do not need to twist my arm, I promise.

Oh my God, Mars investigation, let's do it. Yeah, that's a great comp. I hadn't thought about that one. And I think that, yes, the folks in narration, which is like a little like, I don't know, Dukes of Hazard, you know, sort of thing. Like, I can see why that might be a turn off to some people. For me, it can be such a hard task to adapt an author like Carlisson where like so much of his, like, what he does, he's got these like great twisty, mystery stories, all these

colorful characters, but he's also just so funny as just like writing the descriptions of what's going on. And so when you lose that in an adaptation, you just have the dialogue, the dialogue, which is still really funny and crackling, but you miss sort of that highest in voice of the description and you put it into a narrator. I don't know. I kind of like that. I think it works. There's times when it doesn't work very well. Like I was thinking about, I don't know if you've watched Good Omen Season 1, but Good Omen's season one, but Good Omen's. season one they used like Fran McDormand as the narrator with who is God as the narrator and it like should have worked but really didn't but that was another attempt to sort of capture an author's

voice inside of an adaptation um I think this one's much more successful Carl Heison is such an interesting figure of people have never uh spent any time sort of digging into him uh I sent over rob and Kai a an author photo that he took this morning where he's it was for a book he called Squeeze Me, which is about like the Python infestation in Florida and Python hunters. But it's him with like a Python wrapped around him as an author photo and it's just like

delightful. This guy was a columnist with Miami Herald for you know concurrently as a novelist for a really long time, railing against what he saw as the destruction of the Florida that he grew up with, which is

you know, a Yancey like you know, someone who would fish and hunt and love nature and all this sort of stuff like that. And so like the eyesore giant yellow house on the shoreline or the bright lights that might confuse the baby turtles and like all this other stuff like that, that is just very baked into Carl's like journalism work as well as his novel writing. And I think it's like a really, you don't have that for Raylan Givens. The connection between Raylan Givens and Justified and Yancey and this are guys who just can't behave themselves inside the authority structures that they find themselves in.

That they are both sort of defenders of the defenseless. They both have like a sort of jovial, but like I'm smarter than you attitudes towards the dumb fuck like criminals that they come up against. Raylan has a lot of anger in him that I don't see inside of Yancy at all. And then Yancy has this connection to the natural world, to the environment that, you know, like, Raylan's not out here defending the holler necessarily, you know, the oil companies, the coal miners can do, I guess, what they want to do to the holler. He doesn't really care. But Yancey and like the ongoing baby turtles thing and,

everything else is another really great element of the show that I love. What episode do we get the baby turtles? Finale, right? I feel like that's a closing shot. That's a nice little grace note

at the end of something. If that's the show, the story we're watching is the good guys win and the bad guys lose, which it might not be. It's got to be like Andrew and Rosa

in like the Adirondack chairs outside of his house watching the baby turtles make their way back into the ocean, right? Like that has to be, that has to be it, right? It's got to happen. But if the flip version of that where the bad guys get away

or the bad guys win is the baby turtles crawling to their death on the road, I'm going to be angry. You can't get away with putting that on television, I don't think. I haven't read this particular story, but I don't think that that's what Carl is up to. Okay, we haven't talked about Tom Petty yet.

We simply must. This is where I get a little embarrassed, but I will confess something. Because this sort of ask for us to cover the show came like kind of a little late last week and I was going out of town this weekend. I did like mainline these episodes to make sure that I could watch them all on time. And so I wasn't like, I would say up through episode six, which I knew was one we might like focus in a little more detail today. I was sort of like, you know, consuming the regoon of this show quite quickly and not paying attention to. like specific details. And it was not until

this last episode because I was like oh, that's a Tom Petty cover. Like I heard it earlier. That's weird. Another Tom Petty cover. It wasn't until it was like wildflowers and wrecking.

I believe it is like sort of close to back to back inside episode six. And I was like, wait, is this entire soundtrack, Tom, and it's so late for me to have that revelation and I do apologize. But is this entire soundtrack all Tom Petty covers? Yes.

Wow. That must have been hideously expensive for them to do. Oh, and Tom Petty's from Florida, which is not something I actually ever really put together about Tom Petty. Tell me about your journey through Tom Petty as soundtrack for Bad Monkey. I mean, it's just, this show is packed to the gills with Petty. And we literally, I think, start with American Girl, a perfect song. A perfect song. And then it just covers all the way down. And I think most of them are pretty effective. And looking at the list of artists who we have yet to hear from on these covers. I know, I know. You're telling me I get a Sharon Van Nanton. back down coming up, like, come the fuck on. I'm extremely psyched about that. I think the Reck Me,

like War on Drugs cover, is probably my favorite so far, but I'm liking a lot of them. I will say they're not like the most adventurous covers I've ever heard. It's mostly like similar musical arrangements, but differing vocal styles. Like you're getting an Eddie Vedder in there. Right. In a way that even as someone who is,

I'm going to whisper this because this is a Bringer podcast, not a Pearl Jam guy. I still enjoy it quite a bit. Oh my God. Let's placate Bill if he heard that with this next segment, which I'm going to, I'm dedicating this to Bill, our bill, not Bill Lawrence. Let's talk about the career events of one Mr. Vince Vaughn. This seems to be a classic Bill moment for me.

I would say, I don't think Vince Vaughn has been this good. I actually initially wrote in my notes since Swingers question mark. Okay. That seems rude. I know. And now I'm going to walk. I'm going to walk it back and I'm saying old school dodgeball wedding crashes. Like, of course, like the like 2003, 2004, 2005 and Svon supremacy, I'm not going to go to battle with that.

I do think Swingers is better and I actually do think this is a little better than that. But like, you know, that's him king of comedy in those years. But like, when like 2005, it's been a minute. It's been a long time. like how do you take taking um are bill Simmons a long view look at a at a career like this like what do you make about like of what Vince Vaughn has been doing and why did it take so long do you think for him to get back to the thing he's extremely excellent at he is extremely excellent at it but i think it speaks to the longevity of what you're talking about that i kind of wondered if

he had this anymore or if he was interested in doing this. this anymore. He has bounced around a little bit between like different kinds of parts, more dramatic roles, like things that are not stereotypically Vince Vaughn. I think some of them do work. Like Brawl and Selbach 99 is a very different Vince Vaughn performance and a brutal movie, but one that definitely works. It just doesn't work in the way that if we're all being honest with ourselves, I think we want Vince Vaughn to work. There are some actors who you feel very comfortable knowing that they've only got a couple speeds per se, but they're pretty good beats.

They're really good enjoyable to watch. Sometimes you just want to see fastballs down the middle over and over and over and that's kind of what I want

from him at this stage. Yeah. And it's what I didn't know that we were going to get again. And so to see him deliver in this way episode after episode after episode after episode,

again, in a way that I haven't found grading despite the sheer tonnage of snark that you're getting in Bad Monkey. It's really fun and it's really enjoyable and he's so good at it.

This role is perfect for him. And as far as I know, I know that Carl Heism repeats character as far as I know Yancey doesn't pop up anywhere else but if it were me

I feel the opposite of the way that I did at the end of Presumed Innocent where I'm like I would happily take more seasons of this I would happily if we can

get Carl to agree to it like manipulate one of his other novels they did this all the time with Rayling Givens and Elmore Leonard's stories like manipulate other novels to make it a Yancey story rather than like another character

but yeah I mean like I'm not a speaking of things that'll get you kicked off the ringer, I'm not a curb your enthusiasm watcher, but like, you know, by all reports, he was delightful in that.

I am a true detective watcher, and that was just like, I think, a real misfire of a season in general. It wasn't, absolutely wasn't Vince von's fault. But, like, that was,

that was, like, not the right fit for him. And yeah, I don't want to, like, limit the guy and say he can only do one thing, but he is better than anyone else at this one thing. And so, like, why wouldn't I want to have it?

And if, like, he wants to do it, Similar to we will be talking to Gary Olman on our Slow Horses podcast this week, that's another like marriage of actor and character that you're just like, I feel so lucky that I get to spend time with this actor and playing this particular role. And that's kind of how I feel about this sort of marriage of character and performer. Vince. I'm so glad to have him in this form.

It's such a delicate thing because I do admire the swing. is that he takes. I like that he tried psycho. Even if psycho, that version of psycho really sucks. It's very bad. Are you a clay pigeons guy? Are there Clay Pigeons guy? I like that he tries this stuff. And I like that he has stretches of his career

where he goes like hard drama or gritty, violent movies. I just, I do want this. And if we can get some sort of balance between that thing going forward, a little one for him, one for us, I'm all for that. Michelle Monaghan is, you know, this is a episode is a very much an episode for her, of course, the title of the episode

relates to her character. This was such a, like, I loved her introduction. I love the way she showed up. I thought this was like a really good mode for Michelle Monahan in terms of like an absolute smoke show nutcase. Like, I think that's like a great role for her.

I do, I loved how they handled the revelation of like what she was on the run for when he's on the phone with her. And he gets the news and he's just sort of like having this very, because I was like, oh my God, are they going to make this a comedy beat? And then they have like Rose's reaction in him being like, oh, Zah,

it's a very bad mission. You know, and I was like, okay, well, now I'm laughing. Oh, this is very good. But how did you feel about the way it all played out inside of this episode before she takes off on the fan boat? I mean, I really hope this isn't the last we see of her. I would hope that it's not. Well, I don't know. I don't know.

It could be. I'm just glad Bad Monkey has lived up to something that has been surprisingly challenging, which is the give Michelle Monaghan something interesting to do challenge that so many movies and shows have failed to do. I love watching her. She's so good in this. As you say, is this a very weird part, I imagine, on the page. And something that as an actor you might look at and say, do I want to be the manic pixie sex predator of the? this story? Like, is that the role that I want to play

for my career and I want to have to do junket interviews and explain and defend? Is that the role that I want to take? And I think what Bad Monkey does very well. And some of it is, like, within its particular zone of glibness is that exact exchange you cited, where it can have its cake and eat it

too. It can kind of call out the thing that we're all thinking, which is like, this shouldn't be funny. Yeah. But if you make it funny, we're still going to laugh at it. And if you make the characters either deluded enough that it's clear we understand what's happening. Yeah.

Or just like self-absorbed enough. I think in her case, like she's playing this great middle ground. And Yancey's, I would say general like dispassion about the situation of her past, it makes for a great interesting character beat. And I think fits into this world where, yeah, none of these people are great, are perfect, are good cops, our ethical, you know, ethical officers of the law, are good enforcers or even like good just like partners or friends to each other with some exceptions. But they're really fun to watch, and they're really fun to watch bounce off each other.

I think Michelle Monaghan is perfectly endemic of that. Do you want to go back to, I mean, you already mentioned that Natalie Martinez, as Rosa Campesino, is, like, I think is a surprise for both of us. Like, I just have not been, you know, tracking her career at all. So she's someone who's just, like, really just, like, charming as hell. Just, like, really fun. And I really like their dynamic, you know, because they acknowledge. you know, when she's talking to her sister or whatever, she's like, yeah, he's older. Like, yeah, and like the way that her family reacts to him and all this sort of stuff like that.

But also, I am just, like, genuinely rooting for them. Like, I just, I like them together. I like this for him. We start the season where he's, like, entangled as who wouldn't be with Michelle Monahan as Bonnie, but you're sort of like, that's not right. That's not right for you in the long term sort of thing. And maybe even he knows that. Yeah.

The quickness with which he clocks that she is bad news incarnate is. is very impressive. And I think also one of my favorite things about the flashback. But then Rosa, like maybe not forever, but just like a really good for now connection

for this character. And yeah, something I'm definitely rooting for. So I'm having a great time of the show. I almost wish, I do kind of wish it had premiered a little early in the summer. I guess like, you know,

Apple is sort of like, you know, one blockbuster show. But they're doing this in the same time as slow horses. I would have pulled this early in the summer. This just feels like, such a summer show because it's

we're in Florida and the Bahamas like what you know what else we'll be doing but it just reminds me of like the summers when I used to watch like true blood or whatever and you just sort of like let's just have fun with something where like the weather's warm and you know I don't have to like intellectually invest

in this too much and I can just turn it on just vibe with it and have a great time sometimes you just want a vampire club and or a dragon queen that's how you want to be spending your summer I mean Rob I don't think it's too much to ask for. Anything else you want to say

about this show that we're enjoying? I want to put a little bit of an exclamation point on the Natalie Martinez bit, because I think the show works because their banter works. And it also works because of the vague plausibility of her being

that character needing a change in her life and being so unsettled in her job that she would kind of jump into a project. And I mean that both in the murder mystery sense and the Vins Vons sense. Like, someone who is looking for something, and you can see those sorts of tent poles all throughout the show.

Like, I think the show works because of their buddy cop banter dynamic and now kind of romantic entanglement. Sexy time in the morgue side, that is some nasty business. It's a no for you? That's a no. Look, crabs and popsicles in the cooler with a disembodied arm. That's a good laugh. That's a good time.

Okay. Get a room. Not on the table, please. At the motor in or somewhere? else? Honestly, Motorin's better than a morgue. Okay. Anything is better.

Put it on the posters. Rob Mahoney. Motorin, better than the morgue. This is a brave stance. I'm willing to stand behind. But also, I want to say, Neville is such a weird character in this story, as you say,

he's propped up as being this parallel track that's going to be so important to the plot. And I think in some ways he is. He has presented the closest thing to a smoking gun that we've seen so far,

which is this USB flash drive with all of these documents on it that is now no longer in his possession, but he came upon and he's aware of, and he's also like has a vested interest in getting this resort, you know, bulldoze before it even starts. But we spend so much time on that side of the story. And yes, Jody Turner Smith has a big part to play and like why that stuff is so fun and watchable. But I think Ronald Pete is just like also kind of his own little charisma machine. A lot of it is very silent charisma, but you watch a couple scenes of that character and you get why he would be a lady's

man on the island. You get why people are drawn to him. The flirt game is really strong with him. Extremely. It's very good. His stuff with his sister is fun. I do miss him, like, having the monkey with him. Obviously, the monkey will come back into the plot. I can't, I can't wait to find out how. It simply has to. Do you think he will say good monkey at some point? Oh, I hope not. genuinely, I hope not. Bill Lawrence, if you're listening, cut that cut that line before it goes to It's in the finale. It's in the cut right now. I'm just letting you know.

Is it good monkey and then direct cut to the baby turtles heading down towards the ocean? But yeah, no, I'm like, it's not in the performance. And there was actually, like, I don't know all the stories of the production, but there were a couple, like, major recastings that happened. and Natalie Martinez, As Rosa, was one of them, and Ronald Piedas Neville was another one. So, you know, these are characters

that they wanted to make sure that they got right for whatever reason. You can kind of tell by some of the scene construction, too, like there's a lot of just Vince Vaughn and Natalie Martinez in the morgue or getting ice cream or doing their... You know, it has a little bit of a reek of reshoot, but I think if you're not going in looking for that,

yeah. It stitches over those transitions pretty smoothly. I think they actually did a pretty good job of cobbling this thing back together. I totally agree with you. I totally agree. But yeah, so I'm excited for Neville to be more sort of concretely entangled

with Rose and Yancy and everything that's going on on the mainland now that he has smuggled himself back ashore. Anything else you want to say? What are the loose ends that we actually have left at this point? Because we were saying a lot of the murdery stuff,

the mystery about the plot has been resolved. You know, we're obviously still waiting to see who bagged the dragon queen at the end of this episode. I kind of suspect that it's egg. Egg, yeah, 100% egg. And the question would be, for what motive? I'm suspecting that he's doing it to, like, warn her

or save her in some way, that it's going to be that kind of cliffhanger. Yeah. And then what the ultimate sort of, if there is a smoking gun, whether it's the flash drive or the phone or some combination thereof, like what it would ultimately be?

I don't want to borrow worry because the show has been so fun and like it doesn't really give me But I was a little like, oh, this is a 10 episode, not an 8 episode, was a little, as sort of mysteries were being resolved. So I am more curious than anything to see how they feel the back for. Yes. But it's been so entertaining the way they've reeled it in so far that I think they actually can pull it off.

And these are characters why I like spending time with independent of actually solving the plots at hand. Like if we're just spending time with Roe and his family, that's time pretty well spent. as far as I'm concerned. It's really good and his husband. Like, it's great. It's great stuff. Before we go,

I do, I am contractually obliged to shout out El Scott Caldwell, who's playing Yaya, the Dragon Queen's grandmother, a legend from the television series lost, and I was delighted

to see her here. She doesn't get as much work as she deserves, so happy to have her here. Very happy for you and her. Thank you. Anything else you want to say, where we go?

Are you, let's see, can I get how Rahmohni takes is coffee. I feel like you're a coffee. No, you're from Texas. I don't know. What was that going to be?

What was the Texas connection? I don't know. I'm just thinking of like the flavor profiles of Texas. Are you a coffee black guy? I am like cream or milk, no sugar. Okay. That's my general five. I'll mess with the black.

You know, it depends on what's available. Okay. But, you know, and these days increasingly oat, I have to say. You know, we're moving into alternative milk. So it's a great time in the alternative of milk community. All out all the time. Okay.

Well, that has been an unpaid for ad for oat milk in general. I mean, sponsor us, honestly. Yes. If big oat milk wants to get on this podcast, I would support it. You want to keep me in oats for life. I will be happy. Okay, so I'm John Robinson. That's Rob Mahoney.

Kai Grady working his fingers to the bone for you, editing all these pods and interviews this week. Thanks to Justin Sales for his production work and for reaching out to us to see if we wanted to cover the show. And we'll be back shortly. You either heard this before or after. I'm actually not sure of the order our Slow Horses episode this week. But we're covering Slow Horses.

So come join us on that show. It's a great time. We're hearing from a ton of people that they like watched for the first time caught up in order to watch it with us. And that always makes you really happy. And everyone seems to have it a great time because it's a completely bangered show. So, you know, Apple, you're crushing it. Bad Monkey Slow Horses, Apple also did not buy that ad. Okay.

Thank you so much. Bye. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright creatures. What if a Pacific octopus held the key to a mystery that could heal your heart? Well, that's Tova's reality. An elderly widow working at an aquarium. Tova forms an unlikely friendship with the cramudgeonly Marcellus, whose remarkable intelligence leads her to a life-changing discovery.

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