The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Barry’ Season 3, Episode 2 Recap With Bill Hader

Episode Date: May 2, 2022

Sean is joined again by the writer, director and star of HBO’s ‘Barry,' Bill Hader, to discuss and recap the second episode of Season 3. Bill and Sean break down some of the filmmaking that has characterized the HBO drama, and how it has developed alongside the show’s characters three seasons into the series. Host: Sean Fennessey Guest: Bill Hader Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The goal explained the 1990s in exactly 60 songs. The result, we did it. I'm Rob Arvilla. I host 60 songs that explain the 90s, which has, indeed, covered 60 fantastic songs thus far from Tupac to Radiohead to TLC. So let's do 30 more. Let's do 90 songs. No, we're not changing the name.

More rad songs. More special guests. More astute critical analysis. More loopy nostalgic exuberance. That's 60 songs that explain the 90s every Wednesday only on spot. I'm Sean Fennessey, and this is the Prestige TV podcast. Today we're talking about the second episode of the third season of Barry, and that episode was co-written and directed by our guest,

who also happens to be the star of the show. It's Bill Hader. We're back with Bill Hader. We're talking about episode two of season three of Barry, Limonada, which is a fun title, a cute title. Fun for me to say. Let me ask you a quick question. Is the plan to open every episode of the show,

the clever little tracking shot where we're following the four? foreground on the background. Yeah, yeah. I like cover a little tracking shots. That's a that's what we always say. You're like, let's do a cute little tracking shot. I don't know, like a sassie like, I don't know, like it's like kind of like an asshole. Like a little dickhead tracking shot. It would be fun. Uh, so obviously last time we, uh, we talked to you mentioned some ideas for opening episode one with that episode two obviously, uh, has something nifty going on there. was the idea here to have something more complex come out of something mundane where you're in a fast food joint and then ultimately

Barry's up to no good? What was the idea? Yeah, I think it was just to show the I don't know, again, I think I just kind of drift towards these shots where other life in Los Angeles is happening and our characters are happening in the background. All these other people are kind of living their lives in L.A. doing their thing and these idiots are running around, you know. But it was just funny to me that if people are eating and you just see this hood pop up

and it's, you know, Henry Winkler. And then I like that Barry made him pay for his food. Here's your change. So the thrust of this episode is Barry's plan to get Cousinot a part in a show to redeem himself after murdering Janus. So in his mind, the ultimate way to earn forgiveness is to get the uncastable Gene Cousinot part. And it seems ridiculous.

But in the callow world of Hollywood, like, is this actually kind of a good plan? I don't know. I mean, to Barry, it seemed like it just was like, it made sense. It's like his, you know, he says in one, my career is shit, you know this Barry. And so it's like, oh, I know what I can do. I have a girlfriend who has her own show.

I'll get you on her show. And then you'll have your career back. And then you just won't be mad at me anymore. You know? It just, it, but I don't know if, I mean, maybe to Gene because he's such a narcissist,

maybe that would do it. Who knows? I found myself asking that question is sort of like, is this actually going to work? If he gets him apart. because you can imagine and one of the things that is so funny in this episode

is you start to mythologize Gene the asshole quite a bit here in terms of his reputation around town too is that something that you would always known about that character I mean not yeah yes and no I mean we never thought and talked about it

but you know you just kind of assume like he's someone no one likes but while we were writing it just became apparent like oh you should parallel he and Barry you know, that they that they both have done

bad things in their past, you know, one way worse than the other. Yeah. I think that's fair to say. You do the same thing, I think, even with the show itself, where you are, there's basically two tracts for Barry here where we're seeing him try to put together

this kind of scheme to get Gene apart in addition to getting his own part. But simultaneous to that, he has this confrontation fairly early in the episode with Sally that is really one of the more frightening things that has ever happened in the show and is incredibly serious. And you're obviously showing something not just about what's going on with Barry and his relationship with Sally, but like the workplace and the kind of grudeness that sometimes can enter the workplace.

Like can you talk about that sequence in particular and kind of what you guys, how you guys put it together? Well, I, you know, again, it was kind of like, well, this was always like a matter of time before something like this happened. It felt like, you know, it was always a matter of time before Barry started to turn on the people that he loves, you know. And I think, again, in just writing it, it's like, okay, so he says, hey, can you get him apart? And then she would say what? And then, well, she would probably say, well, no.

you know he he's an asshole or god i could try and then you know you have that those conversations and then it's like well she says no and he's at a lost at a loss yeah maybe he flips out you know he would probably flip out because you know he's got who's no in the trunk of his car you know she doesn't know that and so if he comes in like crazy then that that's the way to make it work and then And I think in the blocking of it, I really wanted it to feel like you're seeing everybody else behind Barry as they're talking. And we do this very slow pullback of him, which, because I want to create that moment. I don't know if you've experienced this, but I've experienced this where you're having a good time.

Everybody's getting along. And then someone does something. And you kind of like, okay. And then you slowly realize like, oh, they're actually mad. And that pit in your stomach. like, oh no, they're really mad, you know. And then they're yelling and then it starts to escalate. And that fear of that and the anxiety that brings.

And so in order to do that, it was like, let's have this scene with her and the writer beforehand where that's kind of funny. And then when Barry comes in, his energy is kind of funny. And it's almost sitcomy, you know, where his eyes are all crane. He's like, hey, hi, you know. and it's all, it's setting it up to be a funny kind of scene.

And then by doing that slow drift back, it was the way of kind of changing the temperature in the room a bit. It was setting a fuse almost. In my mind, it was like, oh, a fuse has been lit. And actually, what he wants is drifting away from him, you know. So it's literally going away. And so, Yeah, he can't get, he can't get Kusun on the show.

He has no backup plan. And so, yeah, then he, you know, he blows up at Sally, which I kind of felt was always a matter of time that that would happen. And then I know I wanted it to stay in these two sizes of a wide shot on Barry, so you could see Emily. It was really good who plays the writer, stand up and leave. And then you saw people in another office. And then you had Elsie Fisher, who plays Katie, who's,

great. You see her. You know, and then and that Sally is just stunned, you know. And when we shot it, when we did Sarah's coverage, I didn't go that hard at all. But then when

we did my coverage, I, you know, you see what's in the episode. I just kind of like, you know, blew my top. And, and I think that was because it was like always wanted, you know, I was trying to like kind of save my energy. you know, but I think it ended up working because I think Sarah on her cover just playing it more stunned

because I was just more kind of direct and even voice. But then when I really blew up, obviously she was more emotive and, you know, her eyes were big and like, what the fuck, you know, what is happening, you know? So it kind of ended up working out nice, cutting back between those two pieces of coverage because, I mean, it was funny when we shot it and we did my coverage when that ended. When we're editing it, you can hear Sarah, she's from Canada and she's very, you know, sweet Canadian person. And she's like, oh, she went, that got quite loud bill. So it's like, cut and I'm like, all right.

And then she's like, well, that got quite loud bill. You know, it's like very sweet. But yeah, I mean, that was not fun to do. I think I did two takes of it, and I was like, I don't want to do that again. But it's important to see it, you know, because you see it in season two where he kills the guy in Afghanistan. You see it at the end of season two when he shoots all those guys. So that rage, it's only to not see that come out on the people he cares about would be hedging and, you know, us as writers imposing our will on it going, well, we need you to like him. You know, and it's like, no, this is what this guy would do.

He would, you know, he ultimately is very selfish. And he doesn't understand the consequences of what he's doing, you know, because then later in the episode, he's kind of like, hey, how are you? Hey, I got my thing. Hey, everything's going okay for me, you know. I got the part. How's it going? And he has no idea.

There's not a, he's forgotten about. how he acted to her earlier, you know? And, you know, that's who the guy's always been, you know. So it was interesting to me that people were like, wow, that was really shocked me. And I was like, well, I mean, he killed Chris in episode of season one and, you know, felt bad about it. And then it, you know, then didn't. And then was worried about himself. You know, he killed Janice Moss because he wants his own thing.

but, you know, somehow he's the victim in that. Well, you got this magic trick going, which I don't know if you're able to see yourself, but like you have an inherent likability as a presence. And so in the show, even though you're doing evil things, I mean, he's obviously damaged and has a lot of problems, but a lot of the things he's doing at this point seem downright evil, so that when you do something where he is not even necessarily physically hurting,

but threatening and intimidating someone that he's close to who we also have a relationship with as a viewer, it weirdly feels worse than him shooting Janice. Yeah, yeah, because, well, you know what it is, is him shooting Janice and shooting the other guy. That still is like me murdering people, so I think there's something about it that most people, unless, God forbid they've gone through something like that,

can't. Right. I think a lot of people, unfortunately, have seen. seen something like that, you know, and, or they've been on the other end of that, you know, and it's more unfortunately and a recognizable thing. So I think it would be, I think, offensive not to go there and not to see that silence afterwards of her sitting down. And, you know, we start the whole thing from Elsie's point of view. So the camera's pulling back from Elsie Fisher. And so it's the whole thing's from her point of view that was designed that way.

So even that shot of Sally when she sits down, we're, we're in, you know, it's from behind and everything. And it's now she's hiding something from us, you know. You know, the beginning of the scene, she turns around. She's very open and like, oh, writing, you know, all this stuff. And then by the end, it's her backs to us. Now she's closed off again. And, you know, all that is is thought out. and important.

And then what happened initially was that then the next scene was Elsie seen texts from Barry to Sally, or Sally to Barry saying, why are you so mad? Are you mad at me? Is everything okay? And it just, I showed the cut to some people. And some of them just said, you know, some of the writers and they went, you know, there's just, I just feel like someone would report him, you know. And we had this thing in an edit bay.

We were all talking and I also talked to some friends who had seen it. He or Mirai was one of them, who directs Atlanta and is a genius. And we all kind of were like, yeah, I think, you know, this is a great scene, but I think, you know, someone will report him. And then it became like, well, okay, well, what's the scene? then and I'm we're going to do these reshoots in February so let's figure it out and and uh and someone will go okay well someone he so what if uh katy reports him to HR and it's like well he doesn't work there so you couldn't report him to HR okay well she could go to the police and it's like well what

did he actually do and then someone's like well he doesn't like hit her he doesn't do this and in this conversation as it was happening I went oh this is the scene let's just do this this is the scene, which is Elsie tries to go and be active, which is very important. Her looking at text is very inactive, you know? And so it was like, oh, we should make her active. And so then she goes to the writer and goes to the first AD, and it was important that they aren't like,

this is Hollywood kid, you know, that'd be too easy. They should be empathetic, you know, in the one moment and that's true I remember one of the writers was like I go what would you guys do if this happened it's like I would be like that's awful I'm just going to stay away from him and I was like what would you report them and they said well I like my job and so I just had that writer say that you know it's like I like my job you know and so again it's it's that thing you check off and George Saunders Philip Roth all of them say the thing you you know you don't in write writing, you don't try to, you don't solve the problem. Like, you're not trying to solve a problem. You're posing the problem. You know, solving the problem, that's not, I don't think, and I agree with that. I don't think that's where good storytelling and art comes from because I don't, it's too complex, you know. And so things are didactic like that. It doesn't really work.

But when you pose it and it, and it's honest, it feels genuine, that's, that's where the, that's, that's what makes it interesting, you know. Yeah, I do. I feel like that scene is so critical to the rest of the show now, because it's, like,ologizes not just what's going on between Sally and Barry, but there are objective observers. There's a young woman who's not really been in this world before, so she sees it one way. And maybe even generationally, having a different relationship to the idea of observing something like that, too, is fascinating to look at. Yeah, you know, it was like, and Elsie Fisher talked about too. She was like, oh, yeah, I get why Katie would go and think, oh, I'll just, you know, I love how she comes up to them and just says, well, we got to do something right? And it's like,

what will we do? You know? And, um, and I don't know. I just thought it was really interesting. And, and what I also liked about it on a story level kind of second, in a secondary way, was that Elsie Fisher's character immediately sees Barry for who he actually is. You know, like she's introduced to him as a violent asshole. And so because of that, that's now interesting, like, well, what is she going to find out? You know, or what is, you know, how is she going to now muck up the works for him and in some way? You know, it poses interesting questions as you're, moving on.

There's also just something amazing about Sally's character in the middle of making a show about being in an abusive relationship. Yeah. Repeating the cycle in the workplace, you know, essentially. Yeah. And she has that line where, you know. She has that line where it's like that happens on, it's happened not obviously in something this dire or whatever, but to me where you could be making something

and not realize like, you know, you're answering your own problems in the way that you're making something, you know, and, and her saying, like, you're making the same mistake again and then goes, can we please change that line? You know, I'm constantly saying that to her. It's like that, that's very true to life, you know. Like, again, you go, I've experienced that, you know, and I have friends who've experienced that, you know. but yeah and I and I think you know what Sally does at the end of the episode too of of well what does you know she has this they're going to do a junket and it's this big thing and this is huge for her and her head is I got to get my boyfriend spaghetti you know she regresses back to this um you know domestic violence survivor this is she regresses back to this place and and even in that you put in like she puts on like what does she know about berry she knows he likes donuts beer spaghetti and metallica and video games like all red flags it's it's funny yeah all red flags it's funny but it's also kind of heartbreaking you know it says so much about them and him and you know but i love uh what sarah does in that last

scene where she's like, are you happy? And that was one where initially we were going to be cutting back and forth between us. And in the edit, Allie Greer, the editor and I just were like, oh, you just have to stay on Sarah. What she's doing is so interesting right here where it's like, are you sad or, you know, I called you a lot, you know, the way she's like, well, I love you, love you. Love you. That little thing she does. We're like, love you. You know, it's just, oh, it's terrible. You know, it's just terrible. One of the things that really grounds it and gives it more gravitas too is not just the humor in the episode, but say casting the legendary casting director Alison Jones in the show and creating a world where like a lot of this feels real. You know, that this is actually Hollywood too, which I think actually lends weight, even though some of the Allison Jones stuff is hilarious.

It lends weight to the world. She provides a lot of that stuff. That's like Allison Jones was really funny. She was super nervous and she improvised so much of her. you know, it was like she had her lines, but she would say, you know, Adam Devine, Josh Gad, two short guys, never, ever, ever, ever going to be funny, never, like, not funny at all. And then she improvised the thing of, you have a not present Joaquin Phoenix quality. That was all her. And we shot her thing. It was two sizes. One shot on her, one shot on me. And she, I mean,

we were done in like 40 minutes. I mean, it was so fast. She just, she was great. And we had just shot the scene that you're talking about where I yell at Sally. That day started with me doing that scene. And then that office where Allison Jones was like right down the hall from where we shot that other thing. So then I'm sitting with Allison Jones and like, I'm like, just completely exhausted. Because I'm like, oh, my God, I've just been screaming.

It brought my lungs doing this really awful scene. Yeah. Speaking of just sticking with Barry for the moment, you know, during his audition, I thought to myself, is Barry getting better at acting? I don't think so. I think he knows now how to, I think what happens is that he needs that so bad

that he's, he knows how to, he's a little bit more savvy about what they're looking for. Do you know what I mean? Like, he's just a little bit more sad. about like this is the kind of acting they want, but he's still just kind of memorizing lines. He's just like,

all he's doing is kind of like saying words. But then he knows how to like hit like, wait, that's you guys or whatever. You know what I mean? But I think he's a little bit, maybe a slightly more savvy because we talked about that because I did the take and Duffy Boudreux came over and was like, was that too good?

It might have been. I go, maybe. And then in the edit, because I did some, some versions of it that were more stilted. And then the edit, it was like, well, which one's the funniest? You know, and so it was the one we picked. How are you finding acting these days? Because this part is, it's kind of like three or four people at the same time. Are you enjoying inhabiting Barry?

He's such a dark character at this point of the show. You know, I don't, the acting of Barry is like, I don't even think about it that much because I write, writing the character by doing that is kind of your you're acting you know like I always say that in the writer's room like well if I'm playing Hank I would be asking this questions if I'm playing Sally I would be asking these questions and then when we go into rehearsals those actors then ask even better questions or you know and so so with Barry it's like a lot of the thought into it's already happened but I've always always kind of been like a, I don't know, intuitive.

Like, I have zero, like, yeah, I don't, I don't really put too much thought into it. It's just, we put that quote, that quote in your Emmy reel for next season, you know, like, I don't put too much thought into it. I just, I know. It sounds like, oh, it comes real easily, but it's like, if I thought about it, it wouldn't be very good. I would be, I would get my head about it. That's what I mean. It's not like, oh, I can just, what, this old thing. It's not that.

It's more like, if I thought about it. I would like, it'd be like thinking like, well, how's this airplane up in the air? I would like lose my mind. And then someone's going to go, I can explain to you how it's up in the air. And I would be like, I don't want to know. I don't want to know. You know, because I would freak out. So it's, it's not like a false modesty thing.

But, you know, I guess it is like, you know, you do like, you know, if like, you know, that scene where I yell at, Sarah, you know, in between takes, we're making jokes, we're hanging out, you know, it's all, all right, now we're over to this, now we're to this, we're doing bits, we're, you know, it's everyone's kind of chill and relaxed, and then you just do the thing, you know. Just so I'm clear, you're saying you're a genius and everything comes easy to you. Oh, Jesus Christ. No. That's what you said, right?

You can ask anybody who's ever hung out with it. That was a PA on collateral damage, I remember, and I, John to Turro was in that movie and I asked him about we were talking to him and and and and this guy Earl Samson is a boom operator was we were talking about the scene in Miller's Crossing where he gets taken out into the woods and and we were both like how did you do that and he just was like I don't know I mean you're going to kill me I don't know I just do it and I remember being like kind of like what come on man you know I was but now I fully get it yeah it's just like yeah you just do it It's amazing. Way to demythologize all this.

I know. I'm sorry. No, but there are people who really prepare and are great, you know, but I, I tend to, like, try not to overthink it. I did on other jobs and the stuff came out bad. I'll put it that way. I've done that on other early takes, early days of shooting skeleton twins. I was really like, you know, I'm going to get, do this. I'm going to try this. And then it just all came out. it feels like you've learned a lot about how to do that part of the job in a way that it becomes more intuitive too yeah i think that's what is i just have more experience you know and it's not like a thing that comes naturally it's like a thing that you have to with more experience you go oh i don't have to press

this hard on the gas it's just like a little of this here and then i actually get a better result as opposed to i'm not going to sleep the day before some scene where i'm supposed to be tired you know what i mean well speaking of acting one of the things that's the thing that's I love about the show we mentioned Elizabeth Perkins last week. I love Miguel Sandoval. Oh, he's amazing. Arrives as Fernando, get shorty, clear and present danger, do the right things, so many things. And I always wonder, do you have a personal list of that guys, of actors and actresses

that you always wanted to work with since you're such a cinephile? Not really. Miguel Sandoval was just on a list, you know, you put out a list of here's Fernando and you know, a big list of people come up and then you try to, you know, and then I always liked Miguel Sandel. He's actually also in collateral damage. Um, but it was just cool to, you know, hang with him and he's such a nice guy. And he was just one of those people that just immediately got the tone of the show. The minute he stepped out of the car and went, and they, like that was, he improvised that.

And like, he just immediately got it. And we were like, oh, we don't have to say shit to this guy. You know, he's, he just understood the tone perfectly and, and was so, so funny. Tell me about the skinny papa slow motion shirtless Bolivian gangsters scene. Oh, yeah. What's happening there? Well, you know, that was something that was like, I don't know, I had a mix and that song came on. I just thought of like, you know, Christobal sitting there watching all these guys shirtless, hugging and pouring beer on each other, and they're celebrating just being able to let off some steam.

And it's very like homoerotic. And I just was telling, you know, Michael and I were talking about it. And it's like, you know, it's like, it's terrifying for you. And there's, but there's also a thing of like, why do I have to hide this? Why is that okay, but what I am would get me killed? You know, that was kind of what I thought. And then when we showed it to people, people were like, oh, he's turned on and he's terrified and turned on. And I was like, oh, yeah, I mean, you could see it that way.

But in my head, it was more of a like, why am I? Why can't I just be myself? And like, that's okay, but this isn't, you know. Like, I'm gay. You know, and Michael was like, yeah, that's kind of how I'm seeing it, you know. But that's what I mean. Then we put it together and people were like, oh, yeah, that could also be there. But I also think he's kind of turned on by it because, you know, you know.

And so, again, I don't, I don't know. You just throw it in there and see what happens. I think it's funny. I think it's funny when it cuts to him and it's pushing in on him. The look on his face is funny. But, yeah. It is funny. I mean, it feels like, it feels of a piece with the, like, the shifting morality as a theme of the show, too.

It's like, why is your morality better than my morality? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I, yeah, I mean, it's just kind of like, yeah, why can I do, you know, it's like, why am I feeling like an outcast right now, you know? And it's like, I don't know what it is. Like, that's okay, but this isn't, you know, I don't know. It's like, that's, that was just, again, it's like a feeling.

type thing. Did you have fun shooting your Zero Dark 30 Raid moment? What was that? Oh, that was a lot of action sequence? Yeah, that was a lot of fun actually. That actress, she's a stand-up comedian who's on the phone. She was really funny. I feel bad that I don't have her, I don't remember her name,

but she just came in real quick and did that and she improvised that whole thing. Like, he ordered milk at dinner. That was all her. She's so funny, and I'm feeling very guilty. that I don't know her name. I forget her name. But yeah, that was by design and that was something that Carl Hersey and Wade Allen, our stunt coordinator and, you know, we all got together and, you know, just that shot, you know, of pulling her, you know, on the other side of the fence and then they come in. And then I remember Eric Schoon over our deep, or our production designer, we had a model of

the nursery and I said I want to do a thing where the guy comes in and you see all the you don't see the raid you see outside of the raid and it happens like in a matter of seconds you know and you know again it's like trying to find interesting kind of striking visuals that aren't you know I just have seen the scene a hundred times the guys busting in and knocking over tables and you just have seen that a bunch so it's like like, well, what's a different kind of interesting image that could capture the whole thing?

I like how in the same 30-minute episode of television, you can get that sequence and you can also get Hank and Krista Ball's breakup and that hold on Anthony Kerrigan's face. Oh, yeah. The hold on his face where he's walking up the stairs. You know how funny is that a couple of people when we were mixing it were like didn't realize that it was supposed to be funny? And they were like, hey, man, you should probably cut that down, right? I was like, oh, it's a joke. But yeah, that came about when we were on that location, and I was talking to Anthony. I was like, wouldn't it be funny because those stares,

if we just, he walked away and we just held in her face. And Anthony played it beautifully because he didn't push it at all. A lot of people would push the emotion, but he just played it totally real. and then it was just it yeah and then forever i've always tried to get a don henley impression into the show that's that's my voice as don henley and the that's me doing don henley in a as a radio show what does don henley's voice sound like bill uh don felder uh felt that the drums on that track were very wet That's very good.

Yeah. Mr. I think Barry, there are two lines in this episode that really popped for me. The first is The Mancho does not age well, uttered by a Chechen gangster. That's incredible stuff. Yeah, I sent it to Kimmel before we aired it. I was like, are you cool with this? And he was like, oh, absolutely, man.

I was like, I hope you're cool at this. It's just the brilliance of having someone who deals heroin and kills people for a living say that is just genius. And then the other one is That is fucking clean and rad and beautiful bro Yeah Which I don't know That felt so specific like where did that come from

I don't know I feel like that came from One of our writers I think yeah someone pitched that And I don't know But it was just it was just a funny line It really made me laugh It's like he said it was clean and rad and beautiful bro

Like It sounds like a something from the Yeah it was something that was pitch Yeah. It's like a summation of what Barry's in search of, though, right? Yeah, clean, rad and beautiful. But it also feels like something that like someone would say, you know, in that make complimenting him, you know. So yeah, I thought that was.

Yeah, I can't remember where that came from. But it was just something that I do. I think it was in the writer's room and we all started laughing. Yeah. We get kind of the opposite of that in the final minutes of the episode. we get, you know, Gene fleeing, the dogs, him trying to get an internet taxi, another incredibly funny line. And then this car crash that Barry gets into. And then there's really another, like, chilling final moment of the episode.

It feels like every episode of the show is now ending with a moment where we're like, fuck, this is getting really dark. Can you talk about the, you know, Barry showing up in Leo's house and, and threatening Gene? Yeah, I mean, I'll say real quick, the couple breaking up with like, you have too many dogs, the woman who says you have too many dogs is Liz Sarnoff, who's one of our writers, who's been one of the main writers on the show. And she worked on Lost and Deadwood and stuff. She's kind of a legend. And it was nice to get her.

And I thought she did a really good job in that. She was really nervous. That's like a silent comedy gag, too. It's like out of a Buster Cray movie. Yeah, I love Buster Keating movies, yeah. It's like, you have too many dogs. And I'm like, who has too many dogs? You, me.

That was all improvised. It was just like, be angry with, you know, just you have too many dogs. But then her saying, who has too many dogs? You, me. And then, you know, that scene with the car crash has two different shots. We couldn't crash two cars that close to Henry Winkler. So that's one pan. It's a motion control shot on a techno crane.

And then we found out that they didn't have the right equipment that night. And so we had to. So when you see Henry running and then he stops, and then when he turns around about eight hours is eclipsed, and now it's like four in the morning. Oh, shit. We had to wait for this equipment to show. show up and I felt so terrible because Henry was so tired. And then I had to make him run. And I felt so

bad. And I was like, okay, we're going to just shoot you running once and you're going to run. And then, you know, the dog's going to chase you. And he was like, absolutely, don't worry. But he was falling asleep. He was so tired. He goes, I would love a coffee. I felt so bad. And then, so yeah, we get to the scene with Leo at the thing. And, um, you know, that was just always kind of like, I think in the outline it just said that like, you know, Cousineau escapes and Leeds Barry through it, like a chase and then Barry like corners him

and tells him that he got him the job, you know? So there was a version of that that was much more kind of upbeat. Like, why are you running? I got us a job, you know. And then I remember I showed up to Sony where we were working, and I got there, I got my time wrong, and I forgot that we had pushed an hour, and I got there early, and no one was there. So waiting for everybody, I just wrote, from the moment he pops the trunk open to the very end, I just wrote all that.

And I remember reading it out to everybody and everybody really loving it. And I was really nervous about this scene because I was like, just instinctively, feels like you want to see Gene get home and then Barry's there and then Barry threatens. It's like, I'm going to, I want you to forgive me so bad and like me so bad that I'm going to, and I'm going to give you this dream and, and if you don't do it, I'll kill your son and grandson. You know, it was just such a, like, wow, he's really, like his kind of logic on that was pretty insane. So I wrote that

and I remember reading it to the to everybody in the writer's room and I was very nervous and even the whole thing I like, I love you. Do you love me? Yes, I love you. And it's this this is what Barry wants is in his mind, he's like he's doing this out of love.

It's like I don't understand why you ran away from me, you know? Like I love you. Don't you understand that? You know, and I read it. And thankfully, yeah, Liz Arnoff and was like, yeah, let's not, we don't have to change anything. Like, that's the way to go. Because I think initially it was more of him being cornered and Barry telling him and him being like, I got apart, you know, cut to black.

And that was the kind of feeling. You know, it was more upbeat. And that, this version felt right. You know, this felt more in line with like, this is a big difference of. you write it one way and then you ruminate on it and go, well, is this really what it should be? I think we should go a little deeper with this. Like, what are they going through?

And then when we shot it, Carl Hurst and I talked and I said, I think we should, you know, we both agreed. Like, I think we should do some really wide angle lenses, like, very close to show the kind of, you know, it's distorted in it and make it feel very severe, you know? And so, and that's been interesting showing that to people, because when those shots come up, people do go, Jesus, you know, whoa, you know. Yeah, it's like, it's like it's a repulsion.

Yeah, yeah. It makes, it's interesting at the premiere, people were laughing during that scene and the scene where I yell at Sally because they were so nervous. They just didn't know what to do. So during the I Love You scene, people were chuckling and laughing during it. And the scene where I yell at Sally, when I start hitting my head, people were like, laughing, you know, because it was just like, I don't know what to say, you know. But that, that I think is good. It was like nervous laughter, you know. And to me, it's like, oh, that means it's we're on to something, you know, it makes sense. I thought it was really chilling.

And it prompted me to wonder how far you can push this character and where's the line. And I guess we'll probably talk about where the line is in episode three. Let's wrap here. You want to wrap here? You got anything else you want to share about this one? Yeah, no, I'll just say I think everybody did a really good job. Should end every episode with that. Everybody did wonderful. Thank you to Bill Hader. Thanks to our producer Bobby Wagner for his work on today's episode.

If you've dug this conversation, please join us next Sunday on the Prestige TV pod. Bill and I will be back to talk about episode three of Barry's third season. See you then.