The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Barry’ Season 3, Episode 6 Recap With Bill Hader

Episode Date: May 30, 2022

Sean and Bill Hader come together to recap one of the best episodes in the three-season run of HBO’s ‘Barry.’ Hader talks about taking big swings, how much you plan before a season vs. during the writing process, and how to make themes like forgiveness and redemption seem authentic within the context of a show that deals with such dark themes. Host: Sean Fennessey Guest: Bill Hader Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, Rob Harvilla from 60 Songs That Explain the 90s here to inform you that we are back with 30 more songs because the 90s were super long and had a ton of rad music. Please join us every Wednesday for more 60 songs that explain the 90s only on Spotify. I'm Sean Fennessee and this is the Prestige TV podcast. Today we're talking about the sixth episode of the third season of Barry and it is a doozy. Fortunately, we're doing so with a star and co-creator of the show, Bill Hater. Let's dive in. We're back with Bill Hater. We're talking about season three, episode six of Barry, 710N.

Bill, what's up? How are you? Good, buddy. How are you? I'm good, man. So here's why I wanted to do this podcast with you. It's episodes like this. At the end of this episode, I was like, fuck, that was awesome.

This is really cool. Most TV shows are not good. The show is so good. What an exciting and impressive episode of TV. When you finish this one, were you guys like we nailed it? Um, it felt pretty good, but that it was, you know, the lead up of it was, was, um, you know, pretty nerve-wracking. It was just a lot. I mean, before the season even started, I would say, like, we started shooting in July and I think in May, we were planning that chase sequence.

Hmm. Like, I got with Justin Ball and Laura Hill, uh, the UFX supervisors and, and mapped out what I, you know, what it was, kind of shot for shot. And then they made a pre-vis. And then we showed that to the stunt coordinator. And he went, and then showed it to locations, Jonathan Jansen. And he went, hey, I got to go find a freeway. You know, and it was just, it was a big operation that by the time we were done shooting that sequence and cut it together, I could tell some of the crew, especially Carl Hersey and Gavin, our,

the first AD, we felt like the season was over and we still had, you know, another big block of shooting. We had two more months of shooting, but we were just like, oh, exhausted. I've carved this episode up into four parts. It's the fuchs part, the gene part, the Sally part, and then this extraordinary Barry part of the show and this chase that we're talking about here. Should we talk chase first? Should we dive into that? You want to wait until the end, make people listen? the end.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's talk about Fuchs then because you shot Fuchs at the beginning of this episode. And I thought he was dead. I thought he was dead. And then he wasn't dead. And then Fuchs has 100 lives.

Were you hoping we thought he was dead or do you think that the viewers are smart to know he'll survive? I kind of have seen people will be like, oh, there's no way he's dead, you know. But it was fun though. And Anthony, the guy who shoots him is a wonderful, wonderful stunt actor. And he is actually in, this is his second character in Barry. He was in the Ronnie Lilly episode. He is a guy when Barry goes into the grocery store, he's stocking chips.

And he like looks at me. And then when I start fighting with Ronnie again, he comes over to try to break it up and Ronnie head butts him. And he is from Boston. He has the thickest Boston accent. And he is one of the most beautiful guys on the plan. And so it's very funny watching him play this kind of awful, merciless killer, you know, because he's just the sweetest guy, you know.

He's just a great guy. I haven't seen to the end of this season, so I can't say this for sure. But I'm glad you brought up Ronnie and Lily because this one feels like this could be this season's Ronnie and Lily. You know, everybody's like, wow. Like that. Yeah, it has a sequence like that for sure, yeah. Is that something you know you want to do at the start of a season where you're like,

I want to have an episode that has something that we've never done before that is like a stretch for us. Yeah, it's kind of like, I don't know. Again, it's that like I get bored feeling where you're kind of going like, oh, man, we got to, you know, do something to kind of break this up a bit, you know, but also as a filmmaker, kind of giving yourself a big challenge and saying, well, gosh, you know, I might never have this opportunity to do something like this again. Like, I'm going to do it, you know. and HBO has to okay it and they did.

They were like, yeah, this is crazy. And I remember, you know, so yeah, no, it was, it definitely felt that way. And, but yeah, Fuchs, Fuchs's, the story, Fuchs's story, this episode really makes me laugh, obviously. because he like um we always said like it's like he thinks he's in dances with wolves but he's only like 20 minutes outside of Los Angeles and then we also thought it was funny that like he's this like romantic hero thing and like this family have just taken him in after knowing him for like 10 minutes it's like it's so funny to us it was it was it was me I think he laughed so hard. But he's, I just, yeah, the whole thing just is very much my sense of humor of just this, you know, it's the universe. And again, it kind of the bigger theme.

The universe is telling you, this is where you belong. You belong on a ranch, in love with goats. Like, that's what the universe wants you doing. And his hatred for Barry. and that because he loves Barry, that violence keeps sending him down this road where all if he did, if he just stopped, you know, he'd be okay, you know. The one thing that levels up this sequence over him leaving Chechnya and the woman who is fawning over him is the conversation with the father figure in the car, which is just so gold. It's like if a guy who looks like Stephen showed up with a gunshot, would you really take him? in and want him to marry your daughter?

Yeah, just immediately. She's ain't, yeah, she wants, I think she wants to be boyfriend, girlfriend. And that, okay, third Kubrick reference, the last two episodes have done a Kubrick reference. Kubrick reference, that actor is in Filmino Jacket, the guy. He's one of the soldiers in Full Metal Jacket. And he is Sal, and he has, he was in a movie called Midnight Madness that I grew up watching with Yeah, sure. Cox and Stephen First and stuff.

And he has just been around forever, came in and read and was just phenomenal, played it totally straight, you know, and it just, that scene in the car is one of my favorite scenes of the entire series. Like, I've never watched it and not just been laughing so hard because it is just, my daughter, Anita, I think she likes you. I think she wants to be boyfriend, girlfriend. I told her that you're a good man. and I'm like, you've known him pretend this.

He showed up with a gunshot. Fuchs is so fucking lucky. Like, dude, just take it. Like, you could not be any luckier, you know? Oh, God, it was funny. It's so stupid. But it was just, yeah, you know, it's that Dave Wingar composer's like, yeah, it's like suddenly he's in Lonesome Dove.

But I think Stephen's acting, again, they're not pushing any of it. They're playing it totally straight, and that's why it's so funny. And then, yeah, he sees that newspaper, former toxic manchild, and then all he has to do is just say,

forget it, fuck that, you know? But he fuchs constantly the season's taking the wrong lesson. You know, the woman that loved him in Russia tells him the Russian fable, and he takes,

a wrong lesson from it, which is, oh, I need to start a vengeance on me. And then the guy says, you know, this guy's telling him to, you know, don't ignore the signs that God gives you. And then he, he takes it as like, oh, it's a sign that I see this headline. So I need to go kill Barry. It's like, no, dude. You know, he just, he's just such a fucking idiot. And it just, but all that, it was a lot of fun. And that was all shot. And that was all shot in like a day, all that stuff out there. And that was, that was probably the hardest day of shooting was shooting all that stuff out at that, at that, out in the middle of nowhere at that ranch. It was just, that was a long day. I couldn't tell if that newspaper in the, in the car was the actual

variety article that Montania referenced earlier. But if it was the idea of that old man reading variety is also incredible. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty funny. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's all, he lives in, I mean, they live in L.A. Like, right. They're in LA. The whole, the whole Fuchs storyline is wonderful this episode. Gene is, you get to do like real John Ford type shots and stuff. And, you know, it was just fun. Carl Harts and I had a lot of fun.

It was one of the things where you wish you could shoot it in like anamorphic or something. Like, you know, but, you know, maybe one day I'll get to do that. Yeah, you should keep telling Fuchs' story over the years, you know, as he continues to be saved by women living in the homestead. Yeah. He's talking about. So Gene has only got a couple of moments in this episode. He's awoken by Fred Melamede who tells him that he wants to, or that he's been offered

the opportunity to teach a master class in addition to his booming career. And, you know, he later goes on in the episode to team up with Annie or attempt to team up with Annie to get her, I guess to seek a kind of true forgiveness. And forgiveness is such a huge part of this season. Yeah. Yeah, and to say I'll give you everything. You know, like, I'll give you the whole thing, you know. What is, because Gene, if out of all the characters right now,

kind of feels, I guess, the most at peace or the most not in danger, you know, like, do you ever worry about that in terms of balancing the characters? Because everything happening with Barry is so high octane this episode. Yeah, no, I think, yeah, he, he, you know, Gene, I think is trying to figure himself out, you know, in a way that's more attainable. he just has to get out of his own way in this kind of in a gene world type way which is like

okay I have this new opportunity for a master class I'm getting because of Barry in this article and he's now getting all this like Barry's dumb plan is working like you know and so because of all this

he's able to try to to make something good out of it. You know, just trying to actually, like, I think his son and grandson being threatened kind of woke something in him. I think, you know, hitting Barry awoke something in him. And then, you know, I think in, you know, last episode or episode four, sorry, is him, him trying to, like, we got to get out of here, you know, we got to leave Dodge, as he says.

It's like he cares about, it's not just him, it's his family. And so I think, you know, he's, he's the one who's becoming, you know, more of a real boy, you know, in that article. It's like he's gone from a, Barry's gone from a wooden, you know, from a wooden boy to a real boy. But it's really gene, you know, but he has to do it on his own, you know. And so that was kind of what was interesting to do. And I think Henry even at times was kind of like shocked when he's like, really, he's going to give her all the money. you know is that really the guy and i was like yeah right now yeah yeah because you know it's earning it it's the thesis of the thing you know yeah we kind of was like yeah you can ask for

forgiveness but you got to earn it and so this is his way of trying to earn it in some way which is to make up for blackballing this poor woman um is to is to get her career back on track you know I want to ask you about the experience of being Bill Hader just a little bit around this concept and using this article as like a rosebud kind of this season in some ways where it's like triggering these events for people. You know, as a person with notoriety, like, have you seen that where like if something appears in the press about you, like either good or bad, that it has like a triggering effect on the decisions you make or the work that you get? you know i've never experienced anything like that really good or bad but i i have had things like when i've talked openly about my anxiety that that then like has opened up a thing where people have come up to me and said and you know strangers come up to me and say hey i you know i saw this video you did for the child mind institute and it's really helped me or it's helped my kid or

um and i i always found that pretty gratifying you know but now it's getting a bit like I'm the anxiety guys so now it's like every time it's like the shorthand interview thing you know of like so at s andl you were nervous and I'm like Google my name SNL and anxiety and you'll see there's like 9000 articles you know but but it is it but that was something that that I wasn't expecting where I you know was like oh yeah no I kind of I thought it was you know you're being a baby growing up like stop being a baby you know and it was like oh no I actually I have anxiety this is like a real I have a disorder you know and then you know it's easy to kind of like roll your eyes at it look I'm from Oklahoma so people are like let me a break just get nervous we all get nervous

like grow up you know but and I I understand those things of people who use it or whatever to their own thing but to me it's like it's just different you know it was like took me a while to get to that place and then opening up about it was a big deal you know uh but i didn't expect kind of what happens in this where an article you know that in my case it was a video i made that i did real quick sent it off didn't think about it and then yeah it just became a thing where i don't think any i any time i go anywhere like an event i someone at least one person comes up and any time i go to like a thing in my kids schools or something someone come up and we'll say something to me so yeah i mean so my thing was kind of nice

it is nice i mean people are looking for points of connection i feel like that's ultimately yeah yeah yeah the lesson in that so that was that was cool but yeah no i've never had anything with jean it's a thing you kind of see now especially now you know where articles can you know make kind of change how you see somebody, you know. Yeah, it's very common. Also, looking for points of connection is Mitch, who is the most important man in this episode. Yeah, this guy is that he runs a bignet shop, which has become, I guess it's like, I'm trying to think, what is the, I guess like squirrel-esque kind of people waiting in line in L.A. for food that seems simple, but everyone is obsessed with. Yeah, and, and I don't know, it was this thing of like, so Mitch,

Mitch Meny's is Chad Kroger and he does these things. What Up Counsel? These videos, Chad goes deep. And if you haven't seen those, they're really funny. But Duffy Boudreau and I were looking at the script of this before we started shooting. And we realized I had a scene with Hank,

a scene with Sally, and a scene with Barry where they basically are just saying, like, you know, here's what's going on with me right now. Like, here's where I'm at right now at this point in the season. And it was just them kind of stating, it would be like the musical number of like, what am I going to do? Like, Banshee didn't like my show or whatever.

And it was just kind of like, you know, scenes you write that end up in TV shows and you're like, this is boring. And so we were talking about it and and we were like, what if they all were saying it to the same person? And then we started laughing about that. And then it was like, what if it's a guy who runs like a bignet store, like kind of like a she-she type of like whatever the hip, you know, place to go or whatever?

And it was in a very personified L.A. and so that's how that came up and then um and then he was just hilarious i mean he just chag crogrew just he did it perfect it it it explained something and i don't know if this is actually the reason but i have i have you know frequented a she-she pastry shop in l.a in my time living in the city and um i was like are the lines long because the guy keeps talking to everybody and having these long conversations? Does that actually explain why it's like this? If you look at the line, no one's with anybody.

Everybody's by themselves, which that was on purpose, where I was like, it's like therapy. Yeah. They all go there to talk to him. And that was like, that one woman runs up. And it was like, I had that conversation with my daughter. And like that, it's like everybody's there to kind of like, he's like the village sousayer, you know, but it's this dude.

So yeah, that was all written by Duffy Boudreau and I kind of like, you know, probably like two weeks before we started shooting. It's a brilliant way to work Hank in too in the conversation that Hank has with him and he offers to cut him into the franchise. And Hank's like, I'm going to have to think about that. Yeah, God, Anthony plays that so well where he's like, yeah. I'm all that over. You know, the hardest I laugh in this episode is a thing. no one laughs at, but I could not stop laughing every time. It was the shot of Hank seeing the nursery is all decimated and it's just Hank crying.

He's like, I'm so fucked. When Anthony did that, I was laughing so hard. Like, it just everybody was like, hey, man, we're losing a light. Do you want to go again? And I was just laughing so, so hard because Anthony was just like, I'm so fucked. He keeps freaking out with a little Dodgers. hat on. Oh, man. Hardest I laughed in this episode is

at everything Vanessa Bayer does. Oh, yeah, Vanessa Bear. She is just one of my favorite human beings. And yeah, we so they had a character of Morgan Don Cherry and had some people they were thinking of and I just was like, it should be Vanessa bear. I just, when I was writing it, I saw it as Vanessa.

I just was like, this should be Vanessa. So did you write that kind of tribal grunting mode of communication into the script? Yeah, well, it was a thing we all worked out together. But yeah, in the script, it was like weird sounds and shit that they say. And it actually went way longer. It was like twice as long. And Sally started doing it and everything. And it was one of those things where you were kind of like less is more, you know,

and you saw it. You're like, this is like wearing out its welcome a bit. But yeah, it was kind of the way I feel when I'm in those meetings. where it's like my manager or agent talking to some executive early on in my career. And I'd be like, what are they saying? Like, I was just so confused. But, yeah, it was Jesse Hodges and Vanessa. We all just kind of sat down.

It was like, now try this sound into this sound. And then it'd be like, instead of this, why don't you try just like faces? You know? And then when we were editing it, it wasn't working. and then Frankie Gutman had the good idea of actually putting their actual sounds into the other person's mouth. So the sounds were the same. And once the sounds were the same, so when she goes, yeah, that's, you know, that's Vanessa going, yeah. Then we actually, when Jesse says, yeah, we just put, it's Vanessa's voice saying, yeah.

So it's the exact same sound, you know, and then, hey, hey is the same thing. so it's like the exact same sound and then that was kind of making it work. But yeah, that's one that I also like when she comes out and she's like, Sally Reid, Morgan Don Cherry, and then they scream, her and Jesse scream to each other. I always feel that too when I go to those meetings. It's all real at CIA or W&E.

It's very real when you go to those meetings and people are just like, and they're just like, I am, this meeting's ostensibly about me and my career, but it's really, I feel so out of the loop on everything. And then I like cutting Jesse and Jesse going, I think you should take it. Sally's like, I don't even know what the fuck was said.

Like, what was happening? Yeah. I'm going to make you scream at me at the beginning of episode seven next time we record. Why? Oh, Sean. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I also thought the text thing was pretty good.

I thought Barry dictating a text really loud and then Sally reading it was really fun. I thought Sarah did a good job the way she kind of right, you know, flew through that. Yeah, all the like little intermittent like conversations that were not meant to be part of the text were the funniest parts of that, you know, looking at the clothes. One question I had for you about that scene in particular is does Jesse's character want? Sally to take that job because that means commission? Or is she actually looking out for her? I mean, I think that's what you should be asking yourself. You know?

I've had that question a few times in my life. Yeah, I think that's what you should be asking yourself when you're with your agent. That's I think that a lot too, you know. But, you know, I found out I love my agent. But yeah, he's like, oh, you're actually looking out for me. But that's, yeah, that's the question, you know, that should be in the back of your mind during those scenes. Okay.

I'm glad I asked you. I feel like you answered it without answering it. Let's talk about the Barry and the chase. So, you know, Albert is connecting the dots of the investigation, and he visits Chris's ex or Chris's wife, Sharon. And then that leads to Sharon inviting Barry over to a dinner for vets. The phone call between your character and Sharon is also one of the funniest scenes of the season so far. your performance is incredible

and I love that part I love you it's so good I was a deep it was very Albert Brooksie I was like so uncomfortable when you saw it yeah yeah that came out when when she was doing her side of it

I was doing the phone call off camera and then it was just the final take of it and I just did that the fuck with her and I was like I love you and she went oh I was like I don't know what I'm saying forget it whatever so then when we shot my side that like months later

Duffy was like, oh, you should say I love you. Remember you did the I love you thing? I was like, oh, I'll do it on one, but we probably won't do it. And then Frankie put it in. He was like, and I was like, oh, yeah, that was pretty funny, you know.

Is it common for you to mess around a little bit like that with the script? Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, we try to state of the script, but it just depends on different people and what the situation is. But that's one where it's like,

you're doing a scene and the scenes kind of like, okay, this is like a connective tissue scene, you know, and it was important to me considering where it ends up, that it be light and kind of fun. So then it was like, oh, can we make this like a comedy scene? You know, but again, you just, you try it and see if it works or not, and sometimes it doesn't, you know. The scene with Jesse and Vanessa, like Vanessa, all those faces they're making,

like, that's all them. It's just make faces, you know? But they're trying stuff. I mean, there was so much shit that they tried that didn't end up in it, you know. Well, after the phone call, you know, Barry meets Mitch, gets some bignets, has a convo. And then heads out. And then that leads to this moment where the motocross bandits identify you in the car as you're on your way to Sharon's house. I guess that's where he's going, right?

Yeah. And then that leads to this like genuinely extraordinary sequence, a really, really cool bit of filmmaking. So we talked about a little bit at the beginning of this conversation, but, you know, tell me about making it. Because I don't think I've ever seen a, especially a motorcycle chase, like shot this way from this perspective. So how did you guys do this? Well, you know, Wade Allen or Stunk coordinator and Carl, Hersy, or DP, and Aida Rogers and Gavin and all these people, you know, involved with this. You know, we just have tons of meetings about how to do this. And what helped me the most was doing that pre-vis.

By doing the pre-vis that Laura and Justin put together, I was able to say these are the exact shots, you know. And then, and so each shot was its own little problem, which I love that. I love problem solving. And all the people on the show, they mentioned love, the problem-solving element of it. But each shot had its own thing that was difficult, you know, to break it down,

and I won't expound too far too much on that stuff, I'll keep it moving. But, you know, when Barry takes off going, that's me, it's called a biscuit. It's a car. There's someone else is driving. I'm hooked to another car and someone else is driving it, a stunt driver. and when I take that turn and you see in the Reve-Mere, the car, the motorcycle get hit by the other car, that's its own composite shot that we hit a dummy.

You know, every shot in that, there's like five different shots composited in that Reaver shot, you know, to make it work. And then when that guy goes through the windshield, that was incredibly difficult to figure out because I wanted the camera on the side. So where you felt it really hit next to Barry and then holding that for him to be able to turn around and look at the guy. And we talked about, okay, actually throwing a guy through the windshield and wherever he lands, he lands. And I was like, well, that seems kind of dangerous. and then

then it was all going to be on a stage like we'll do this all in a stage with green screen but then Carl and Laura both were like no I think you want to do it on the location using the sunlight and the elements of that location

there that'll make it look real you know make it feel so that shot also that's that's that's like a composite shot about five different shots And that's, they actually, they had me react and then I turn and look and there's nothing there. And then they get me out of the car.

They do it again with a plate, with just, it's just empty. And then the third shot is a dummy flying through that windshield. And then the fourth shot is they put, we put a actual guy there. And we shot those with a green screen behind it. On the location, though, so the sunlight coming through the windshield is the same. but we can composite to the Gwinshield. So then when you put it all together, that's like a dummy flying in,

but the minute it hits that seat, they morph it into an actor. It's pretty amazing for like five seconds of screen time. The amount of work that goes into that one little moment is, I mean, the amount of work from their whole team, Justin and Laura's team was pretty, pretty astounding.

So, yeah, you know, and then, you know, I started doing this thing while I was shooting it where Barry's like singing this song and I was just doing it at the top of the scene. Then you're my buddy, you're my friend or whatever. And that was really just because I was bored. Like, I was just trying to find something to do in the scene. And then it was like, oh, this could be a funny thing that he's doing through the whole thing where he's just trying to sing this song and be like happy.

But then the kids came interrupted by these people. And Barry, this is weirdly where he's his most, like, calm is in these situations. So that was funny. There was something very, like, not to sound pretentious, but I really like Jatati movies. And there was something very Jatati about it of, like, no music, sound effects. And, you know, it was something very silent comedy about it. but once it got to the freeway that's you know that's the 710 north in Pasadena and we shot no way we shot three days um three Sundays um that's from 7 to

noon and it was crazy hot outside and one day was just me merging it was just one day we just shot me merging and there's real cars in there and then there's peppered in VFX cars to kind of, and there was no traffic going the other way, so that's all VFX. And then, um, and then the second day was anything that was pulling them. Like, so once it, it cuts to the, um, we had two camera bikes that had a mount on the back of it. One had a mount on the back and one had a mount on the front. And so it's a stunt driver driving really fast with this you know, this mount on on the back of his bike and

our stunt driver, you know, shooting our stunt driver and they're both actually splitting lanes. We had a bunch people bring their cars out. They left their cars there and we created a traffic jam and then just sent these people through. So that's all

real. They're really splitting lanes and it's it's it gave me a heart attack when we were shooting those. I was so nervous. You know, I mean, two. Couple of things about that though. Like one, I'm sure this is true in other cities,

but in L.A. in particular, the motorcycle driving intensity splitting those lanes in general is a thing that you feel on. I've never really seen that represented on screen. Yeah, it always is unnerving to me. Like, that's unnerving, but also just like,

I don't like merging onto the freeway. I just find that unnerving. Like, merging of the freeway, like in a small car with like the, like the windows down or I don't know if you've been like in a convertible and you're not driving and someone merged on the freeway I think it's terrifying I have like a full on attack so I was trying to create that feeling of when he goes on and it's just how loud it is um so the lane splitting was one day and then the third day was everything with anthony shooting at him and trying to do the handoff

and it going wrong that whole stunt um so those were the three days of on shooting of the and yeah I mean I just we just were really super prepared I mean we were just crazy prepared and and then you know the amount of

you know Frankie and I when we sat and cut it together we cut it together while we were shooting just to make sure we had everything Iita Rogers had a really good idea where she was like you should cut the motorcycle sequence together just to make sure

it works, you know, so we can go back. Soderberg now, yeah. Shoot it until we, you know. So we, yeah, that whole thing, like, we were shooting the episodes and I had it on my phone and I was like, look, it's rough, but look at it, you know, and people are like, whoa, that's crazy. You know? So, and then when she, when they get to the car dealership and the car dealer and everything, that's actually, shot in torrents. So they take a, they turn,

he gets off to 710, and then we're suddenly in torrents. And that's a car dealership in torrents. And Eric Schoonover designed this amazing ramp for Stuntwoman to go up, then put all this stuff around it. So it looks like she's going up, you know, these garbage cans and debris and stuff. And, and, but what I wanted was a, like a shot where again, everybody's kind of small and you're seeing the whole kind of world of Los Angeles.

It's a kind of, I don't know why. It was just, for some reason it was very important to have like the context of Los Angeles, like the freeways, so it's these wider shots. And then this car dealership, so you could see inside,

you could see on top of it in one shot and then someone shooting down below into the car dealership and seeing all those people then come towards cameras so the perspective changes um and that's always really fun instead of doing it in shots you do it in one shot but you you're you're kind of um it's it's a pan you be pans and then berry walks off and you pan back the other way, but in that is the information of like, you know, five different shots, you know, or six different shots. Well, and that, that definitely comes from, you know, watching some of those older movies, you know, or, you know, just certain, um, also pictures, you know, I like watching just certain pictures that are wide. And I also, I think I like, because it's kind of Ronnie Lilly, too, of like when Fuchs try to to get the girl into the car and she goes up the tree and goes on top of the house.

And now, like, the status has changed between them. It's kind of a similar thing, you know, where now she, you know, Tracy Taylor now has the status and the scene. So she's on top of the house. You know, it's all that stuff, you know. And then by the guy's shooting her and she goes away now Barry can leave. You know, it's all that silent film. crap.

But that's what's so good. I mean, the Tati reference makes a lot of sense in the beginning and the end of this long sequence, right? But like the thing that makes it more than homage is putting the characters in the real world of California freeways, which are the opposite of these constructed environments that Tati would build. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's real.

Yeah, that last shot too. Carl brought it up. We were doing the color. We're color grade on the. that sequence in that episode and Carl was like oh this is kind of like a Roy Anderson shot and I'm like, I'm really right. It is kind of like one of

those Roy Anderson shots of all little miniatures of life. Yeah, miniatures of life and people going from like deep background into the foreground and but again it's not conscious. It's just kind of like you see the location and you go, oh, this is what could happen, you know.

The other thing I love about the sequence is it really serves the story because Barry escapes. It seems like gets off Scott free from this crazy chase sequence, arrives at Sharon's. He's in a place where he feels safe.

He's brought the Beny's. He's ready to have this dinner with some vets. And then he spots Fuchs's Kenneth Goulet card. Yeah, yeah. And we realize that the show is one step ahead of the audience. Yeah. And that Sharon is getting maybe her revenge. And I guess, so she's poisoned the sauce,

the dipping sauce. Is that what it is? Yeah, yeah. She poisoned the dipping sauce. Yeah. So that was the fun thing of, we knew he needed to get poisoned and initially it was like oh there's something there and then it was like oh it'd be great if what he's bringing is the thing that she poisons him with him so forever

it was chips and dip and then once we came up with the bignets thing it's like oh that's what he's bringing that's what she poisons you know um but yeah it was it was fun that was a lot of fun figuring that out and coming to that ending and knowing like oh what a great kind of flip of him getting poisoned and and uh and yeah seeing fuchs's card there and it's kind of laid out which i was like oh did she put that out like that's one of those things where people on the set are like wait so when she put the bignets down does she put that down and i was like yeah maybe i you know i don't know i just this is this is i just think it's nice for him to bring the phone down it's there you know what i mean or he left it there and barry just didn't see it because he was looking at

at his phone. But those are the things that make, that break your brain as a director is everybody going, wait, wait, wait, can we just talk about the logic of where the card is? I just like it as like a hitchcockian, you know, gimmick. I really dug, I dig that kind of stuff, you know. But yeah, I was, I was happy that.

that was one when it came out. When we cut it together and we were in the mix on it, it was like, man, that feels really good. That feels like a very solid episode. It's one of the best episodes I think you guys have done. I thought it was really great. Can I ask you one more thing about it? Yeah.

We haven't talked too much about the music on the show, a little bit about the score, but that spirit song that ends the episode is so great. Oh, yeah. You know, how do you land on, you know, songs that you want to use on the show? Um, I kind of have, I have a big playlist. Um, and then, uh, and then I share it with the editors and, and we just kind of go through stuff. And sometimes they add stuff or I add stuff, you know,

like the end of episode one is that Davy Crockett song and that was one that I had on a playlist. And, um, and I think Ali put that salt song at the end of episode. for and then sometimes it's nice just to have weird sound or nothing or you know what I mean just whatever the mood is but I always love that song I actually heard that's the spirit song on a Mike D playlist like had some like a playlist and he put he had it on there and I was like this is what a great song just that open you know and I was like oh this is awesome so yeah you kind of file it away and go, how that, and then we're looking for something for the end of six.

And it was like, oh, I got the song, you know. But yeah, constantly looking, constantly kind of keeping your ear to the ground and listening to stuff. And you just kind of know like when something feels right. It's a great way to end one of your best episodes. Bill, thanks for this. We got only a couple more left. Yeah, man.

It's going to be, I hope you guys dig it. It just gets really dark. So much to look forward to, my favorite kind. Thanks, Bill Hader. See you. Thank you to Bill Hader. Thank you to our producer, Bobby Wagner, for his work on this podcast. Please stay tuned to the Prestige TV podcast.

Next week, we'll be back with Bill Hader talking about episode seven of Barry.