The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Barry’ Season 3, Episode 7 Recap With Bill Hader

Episode Date: June 6, 2022

Sean Fennessey is joined by ‘Barry’ creator Bill Hader to break down Season 3, Episode 7 of the show. Among other things, Sean and Bill discuss the heavier themes of protectiveness when it comes to your children, and what happens when the ‘Barry’ writing process sometimes strays from Hader’s original vision. Host: Sean Fennessey Guest: Bill Hader Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Your one-and-done look is about to pay for your next night out, or at least the right home. Your style can make you cash. Start selling on Deepop where Taste recognizes Taste. I'm Sean Fennessee and this is the Prestige TV podcast. Today we're talking about the seventh episode of the third season of Barry and we're doing so with the star and co-creator of the show Bill Hader. Let's go to that chat.

We're back with Bill Hater. We're talking about Barry. We're talking about episode seven. Is it called Candy Asses? Is that right? Yeah, that's right. Candy Aces. Let's talk about penultimate episodes. You know, on some shows, on your Game of Throneses,

they're considered the most critical in a season. Lots of revelation, lots of explosions. What do you look to accomplish ahead of a finale? I mean, it sounds lame. I don't really think about it too much because to me it's just one big story. So it's weird how things just kind of will line up that way, you know? Season one, the penultimate episode

was probably the best episode of the season. And then, you know, season two, the penultimate episode was pretty good, you know. But, you know, it definitely sets up a big kind of cliffhanger bringing you into what the final episode is going to be. But, yeah, it's never like we go into it going, well, this is the penultimate episode. We've got to make sure this is killer or something,

You know, it just seems like, oh, this is how the story is kind of lining up, you know. So you opened this one, kind of a cold open on Ryan's dad and church. Yeah. He's kind of gobsmacked by this news that it seems like his kind of realization that Barry is his son's killer. Yeah. Why did you zero in on this character and in this setting? You know, if that kind of kept morphine, initially it was, he was this guy of a, of a, deep faith, and he was struggling with that, you know, and these feelings of, of violence and

revenge. And we had written versions of that where there was a scene afterwards, where you see that his wife has accepted that his son was in league with the devil and all this stuff and and he he feels distant from his wife and you know you see how Ryan Madison's death has affected him and then I just got to a place where I said you know can we just tell this in a very simple images which is and I came up with the thing of everybody sitting down and revealing him and that he's just someplace else and the idea of church I think just came again from somebody who believes in this higher power. And I feel like that in a weird way kind of permeated through the whole episode,

this idea of heaven, hell, is this real, is this not real? Where is Barry at in this episode? It seemed like the story naturally kind of wanted to hit these ideas. but you know, you do it through character, you know, and what we learned was when we wrote it to didactic, it lost everything. So you kind of want to just show it, and you can feel it or not feel it, you know?

Yeah, the whole episode has this kind of Judeo-Christian spirituality aspect to it. You know, you've got like Sally is in this kind of false penance phase. You've got Gene in his kind of pendants face. And then Barry, like you said, you know, it goes from cold open to cold open. We see him on his back with a, I guess, a sweater thrown over his face as he's choking to death. Yeah. He awakens and then he enters, I get a purgatorical ocean-side setting.

Yeah. Yeah, you know, the ocean and the water, when we're writing the show, is always meant kind of like, he's going to sound pretentious. but it was always kind of freedom. You know, the desert is where all the murder happens. And then, you know, season one, he's sitting there looking at the ocean and he's free. And then he decides to go back and save Fuchs. You know, the last scenes of season one is him and Janice Moss talking on a dock and she's standing in between him and water.

Like, that was all very conscious. And so it was this kind of idea of like, let's just make it water because maybe for Barry in his mind, water isn't that. The ocean and all this thing that kind of represents freedom and stuff. Maybe that's where you go to, I don't know, be punished or I don't know what it is. I mean, that whole sequence was something that changed over and over. over and over again. One minute it was in the desert. There was a point where Barry, like, floated.

There was this point where there was cloud people, you know, not real cloud people, like an animation kind of thing, but one of those things where you're looking at the clouds and you can see a face in the clouds, you know, and it was like, oh, he's being, again, it was all very didactic. It was all very, like, people looking down on him. He's being judged. And we shot plates for all that. stuff to animated it, to animate it. And then as we were cutting all that stuff for the,

the, um, all the beach stuff, it became really, you know, this was a good lesson. As we were watching it, the moment that I felt something, because that whole sequence was way longer. And the moment I felt something was when Barry would look over and see Chris and Chris didn't notice him. I would get, I was like, oh, you know, I would feel something there. And I said, I think that's kind of the most moving moment of all this. And Ali Greer and Frankie Gutman are two editors, right? Yeah, we agree.

And I said, that's what it is. Let's just make that's what this is about. So let's lose all the, no VFX, no anything, we'll do it with sound. and initially all those moments of all the other people from the past episodes, you know, they were speaking and talking and then one of them would notice something in the sky and then other people would look up at sky and it was much more of a sequence. And so we went back and we recut it so many times. And then what we landed on was what you see, which is it's about Chris.

And then it's a quick reveal of, oh, here's who he's with, you know. and that seemed right. So interesting that as we've been talking about this whole season, so often you've come to the conclusion that I guess less is more, you know, that you kind of wittled things back. But you got to write more. You got to go be didactic to understand what the thing is

and then go, okay, let me back up from that and try to make it something a little less on the nose or a little less preachy or, you know, think PC or whatever you want to call it, you know, you want to just make it about the character. And also, and just emotion, just what's the emotion of it? And hopefully people lean in with that, you know. You know, you've said that also through some of these conversations. And sometimes I don't necessarily, you know, exactly what you mean when you say that,

because I'm not a, you know, a TV writer. I don't necessarily think about constructing character. But I will say, you know, near the end of the episode, when you have Ryan's father in the front seat of the car and he's talking about when his son was born and how that changed everything. I thought it was one of the most sincere and as a new parent, like profound things I've ever heard on the show. I was like, wow, this is so true to what it's like to like how your feelings change. Can you talk about that a little bit? I know you're a dad as well. Yeah, no, and that's how you, that's how I felt.

I mean, I can't speak for all parents, but that's how I felt where you, it was this combination of I've never loved something so much. And maybe I, if something happened, I would go crazy, you know. It's, it's why, you know, that's what just happened in Texas. I, you know, I went into a stupor for a couple of days. I just was like, what's happening? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it just sucks, man.

And it just, you, so Ryan Madison's thing about that is it's an emotion I have, a feeling I definitely share, which is, oh, man, what would happen if you lost one of these things? And lost a child. And so what I find interesting about it is that's Ryan Madison, who we meet in the pilot, and he's kind of a deuceus, you know, he's kind of a swaggering whatever.

But that guy has someone who really loves him. That guy has someone who cherishes him and as a parent. And that was kind of the feeling of that, you know, that was the thing I was trying to go for. And again, that scene, as initially written, was a back and forth with him and Barry. And the week before we shot, we did a rehearsal of it. And I just said, I'm cutting all my dialogue. What you're doing is so good. It's more powerful the less I'm talking.

And the more it's him kind of trying to figure out, like, I got the guy who killed my son. And it's funny because Barry didn't kill his son, but he was going to kill his son. You know what I mean? But it's, I got this guy in my car. And he's dying. And he's a doctor.

right and so his initial thought is to take him to the hospital and he gets him to the hospital and then he's going wait what am i doing i got this gun here you know he's trying to wrap his head around what why do i have these feelings in me but i have the other feelings too i want to save you and i want to kill you why what this is being human you know and he can't and then you know all he says is I want to be with my son. That's all I want to do is be with my son. And we kind of decided with this revenge army was, okay, you know, each, each thing had to be different, you know. And we decided, okay, well, one of them can't be able to do it and they commit suicide.

And that became Ryan's dad. Initially, thank God we didn't do this. I was pitching this was Ryan's dad was going to go to a, Barry's apartment and the whole acting class was going to be there having a party. And it turned into a shooting. And the idea that, and members of the acting class died. And it was like, oh, Barry's past is now affecting his current community. And it was about him trying to get the acting class back together in a way of trying to get his community back together.

in a way of trying to get his community back together. And it's like, no, you're not allowed to have that anymore, was the idea. And it was just too much. The writing room was like, no. And I remember I pitched it and I was really into it. And, you know, this is why you have a good writer's room. You know, everybody very quietly was like, I get it. But I think it feels a lot like something else we've seen.

And so let's try to think of something else. It doesn't need to be about carnage and it needs to be more about him. And the more we talked about it, it was like this idea that you're talking about where I talked about, well, I remember my kids were born this feeling of like, oh, man, I could hurt somebody because I love this thing so much. I love this child so much. Wow, yeah, this is crazy. And the pain that you would feel that kid was taken away from you.

I don't know how I would deal with that. And then that, again, it's personal. And I talk about the emotion of things. It's like, what's that personal thing you felt and you write from that? You know? Instead of what I used to do as a writer, as I thought writing was like making a cool mouse trap of, now this thing sets off this thing and this thing goes, you know. And it's not really about that.

It's what's the feeling that you have. And that feeling is what's pushing the story forward. and we talk about that a lot, the term, oh, I've felt like that before. Now I can write from that, you know. And the thing of him showing up and the shooting and everything, I'd never felt that before. I just thought it was, whoa, how fucked up, you know, how fucked up would that be? You know, it would be, it was, you know, how interesting would that be? And everybody went, no, no, no, no.

And then when you wrote from a thing that you related to, it suddenly, it blossomed in a way that I think's pretty powerful, you know. And that actor just did an amazing job. He just, that's his third take. And the first two takes were great. And then I was in the backseat directing him. And I said, just say it. Don't put anything into it.

Just say it. And he did that. I remember Gavin Kleentopper, AD came in, and he just stuck his head in the car. And he went, that was money. it's a weird thing to say after a speech. Yeah, yeah, he's crying. I was like holding his arm going,

dude, that was beautiful. And he's stuck his hand. He's like, that was money. I have a couple of directions I want to go from there. You gave me a lot to work with. One, I just, I have to observe like the, the echoing visual of someone with a gunshot wound in a car now, twice this season.

And then we also saw Chris in this episode. Yeah. So you've got this like motif going on with the show too of people getting shot in a car like this that is very upsetting. But before you say anything about that, you know, you mentioned you pitched this idea to the room. You know, you're the head honcho of this show. I know you and Alec run it together. But like, are people really comfortable saying that's Bill, that's a bad idea? Oh, yeah.

Yes. And sometimes I really work with them on it, you know. I really like try to you know there's an idea for season four that people were not into and I went no no no no I think this will work but

you know that one you can feel it where you go I don't have a leg to stand on I can't really I can't really defend this and then you start the question and I get really defensive and I go what do you what are you talking about

and then I go take a walk or I drive home and I'm going going, ah, yeah, you know, yeah, you know what, they're right, you know. And I usually call Duffy Boudreau and go, what am I missing? And he'll go, it's just, it's carnage for carnage sake. And that's another show, man. It's, it's not, it doesn't answer. It doesn't bring, it doesn't enlighten you on anything about this idea of revenge.

You know what I mean? It needs to be more from that guy. It's more of that guy, like, I don't know. He goes, I just, and he goes, and also I love the class. It's the only thing to happen to them. He was just being honest, you know, and, uh, he goes, I think it's about, it needs to be just between Barry and Ryan's dad. It doesn't need to involve everybody else.

And, and I went, yeah, you're right, man. All right. Let me think of something. And then the minute I started talking about my kid, it just the room, like Duffy Boudreau was, he has a kid and he was going, yeah, that's it. This, this, this, what we're talking about right now. Yeah, this is it, you know. You know, I feel like Sally's character is having,

a somewhat similar experience here because the, you know, Joplin has become sort of like her baby and it has, it has really driven her kind of mad like everything that's happened to her in this very compressed period of time on the show. It feels like, you know, two episodes ago, her and Gene and Fuchs and everybody was in a good place. And now they're all fucking spiraling out again. It just gets worse, Sean.

Oh, no. I have not seen eight, so it just gets worse. Oh, no. Can you talk about Sally and, um, the situation that you put her in in this episode because I don't think we've seen her this rageful and it feels very much like received behavior from what we saw from between her and Barry earlier this season. Yeah, I mean, she definitely, that was kind of the, when we initially had her speech be, I don't know if you remember this,

why I said her speech initially, the 98% of Rotten Tomato speech was initially about went into Pam and she got really mad about Pam and Amy Gravited at. S&L very rightfully was like, you know, I think you just need to make this clean where she does everything right and then everything wrong happens to her and it's none of it's her fault. And that was the right note. And then by making it all, you know, she did everything right. Then it's like, oh, no, you know, this is, everything's going wrong. So, you know, I do think that, you know, the whole season's kind of at the perceived, if you're, you know, if you're pushed far enough and if you love something enough, can you be violent? Can it push you to violence, you know?

It's not everybody's, they're not Barry in the way that Barry can kind of, you know, what made him first indiscriminately kill somebody really outside of war was when he thought, his friend, Albert, who he loves, was shot. And he went and shot, killed an innocent person. And that was, and so it was kind of seeing if the other characters would go through a similar thing. And it kind of just happened very naturally. And I think Sally is a victim of abuse. She's had violence perpetrated on her.

and she's doing an artistic endeavor in order to deal with it and bring, you know, a big audience to to it and be able to talk openly about it. And she did everything right and the show was great. And then this, an algorithm buried it. And now it's like, she's a writer on the new Medusa's. and with this showrunner guy that is very much a response to friends of mine who would work on these really kind of cool young shows

and then the writer who would run it is someone who has to have a lot of experience and it's usually somebody who's just like someone who's on staff on a sitcom 20 years ago who doesn't understand the writer's room. He doesn't understand the writers. is, you know, and so, yeah, it's a bit like I'm trying to play the game, and then she sees Natalie.

And it's just like, this game has no rules. This game has zero rules. Fuck this. Like, fuck all of you guys. You know? and I think that is a perfectly, I think she's totally right to feel as she does in that episode, you know. That scene with her and Darcy and Elevator is pretty rough, you know, and that was...

Really intense, even by the standards of your show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was one again where it was funny because we were blocking it. Initially, it was a lot of coverage. And as we were doing it, and I was seeing how where Sarah started, and then how Sarah would slowly close in on her. And then I was like, oh, could you back her up against a corner? And we're watching to do it.

And Gavin Kleintop again, and Carl Hersey, the DP, were like, we're going to do this in one shot. I could hear them mumbling to each other. And I was going like, hold on, hold on. Don't everybody get excited just yet. Because if we did it as a wonder, we were going to get out early. And I was like, everybody just relax. And so we watched it and watched it.

And then they did it. And then I realized, this is great. I've overwritten this. So I started cutting lines. Really, I go, lose that, lose that, lose this. Don't say that. Go straight to this. I just started editing it right there,

which is really throwing a curveball to those actors because they've been working on it. And then you're like, you're not saying this. You're going straight from here to here and blah, blah, blah. Try it again. They rehearsed it a couple times. And I think we shot it three times. and that's the second tape. And every one of them was usable.

Sarah and Darcy were just unbelievable. It's pretty incredible performances from both of them. I think the scene and everything that kind of plays out for Sally there is also this really smart portrayal of something that's in the culture of Hollywood right now, which is like the culture of apology. And, you know, the same way we talked about the algorithm and streaming, you know, in previous episodes and even the idea of like making your own life. life into art and the way that so many people do that in Hollywood. This whole season really seems to be this really smart sort of satire, sort of docudrama of what it's like to be inside of this universe. Yeah, and it just,

and again, it kind of played to the bigger theme of apology with Kusno trying to apologize and Barry trying to figure out how to apologize. And so now Sally is going through that and the same thing with, you know, Fuchs apologizing to Barry and episode over the phone. and very going, okay, and he doesn't get the reaction he wants. You know, is Sally apologizing because she feels bad that she said the thing she said,

or is she, is it just damage control, you know? And the damage control apology that then results in like the further destruction of your career is such a classic. It's such a true thing. It is a true thing where you go, well, she doesn't feel sorry for what she did, but so it's nice to have her, you know, Jesse Hodges is Lindsay there going, her agent going, this isn't an apology. This undermines everything. You're trying to do a real genuine thing and this undermines everything.

And then we stage that in a way where Sarah gets up and yells at her and then she backs into darkness, which was very much like a design, you know. And that is a hard thing to do what she's doing. She's delivering this monologue and she's at a 10 and really angry and she has to walk back and hit a mark, get directly on a specific mark because we're trying to just have her completely engulfed and the frame is this darkness around her. It's like a theatrical trick like you'd see.

Yes, yeah. And what you're seen is the first take. That is, let's just give it a shot. Let's see what happens. And Sarah just knocked it out of the park the first take. And then we did two more. And I was like, we don't need to do two more. We got it, you know.

And, but yeah, That is definitely the self-destruction of that, but it only works writing-wise if you understand where both people are coming from. You know, if you understand that Sally's like, I'm trying to protect my image and end that moment. I think a lot of, you know, people apologize in the moment. It's like this knee jerk, like, it's damage control.

I just need to say, hey, I'm sorry, and I'll give some money to a thing, and everybody just don't be mad at me. And I think people just see through it and go, you're not fucking sorry, you know what I mean? And it's like... And I feel for her. I do.

I feel for her in that moment because I think she's feeling vulnerable. You know? She's in a very vulnerable... But let me ask you one other thing about, like, identifying with Sally's frustration and anger in that sequence. So, you know, Natalie goes off and makes this show that has, like, in a very loose way, some similarities to Sally's show. And there are a lot of shows that sound like other shows.

remember even when you first started promoting this show, you were kind of like, oh, I don't want this to just be like gross point blank or whatever. You don't want it to just like the funny assassin. So like, have you found yourself or have the writers in your room found themselves in situations where you were like, man, you just like yacked my idea that I've been trying to sell or that I did sell. Oh, I'm sure that happens. And I've also been in situations where I've heard someone tell me a story that that happened. And I go, you know, sometimes it just happens that two people have the same idea. You know what I mean? It just...

When I worked at South Park, I had... I told him, I found it. When I first moved to L.A. in 1999, I wrote a South Park spec with my friend Nick Jasanovic because that's what we heard you were supposed to do. It was write specs for TV shows.

So we wrote one for South Park, and Kyle had a cousin named Kyle in it. And then a year later, they did an episode where cousin... He had a cousin and a guy named Kyle, and there's no way because we never showed it to anybody. It never left our apartment.

We wrote it and we're so self-conscious about it. We never showed it to anybody. But what are the odds, you know, that they had the same idea, you know? And so, but that happens. That happens a lot. But that only explains why they, those, you know, Trey and Matt loved you and wanted

to bring you into the room in the first place because you had the right brain for it. Yeah, maybe on the same wavelength. Yeah. But we definitely, but it is a thing that you, you realize. But with the thing with Natalie, I think it's more about Natalie. The important line for me in that elevator scene is Sally going, that's not a story.

That's a math equation. Because that is true. I've been pitched math equations. Or someone will tell me about something they're working on and I'm going, that's kind of a math equation. It's like people want X, Y, Z. It's got these things that are hot right now. And by the way, I'm reading a book about the,

I'm reading Sam Fuller's autobiography right now. That's been around since the beginning of motion pictures. It's around since the beginning of stories. You know, it's like, what will make money? Well, we want those things, you know. And now you have an algorithm that will say, this is what people, these are where the taste clusters hit, you know, when people see someone eating dessert or someone, you know,

DeV Patel or whatever, they go, oh, you know, let's, I can just put that in my story and it'll work, you know. Do you, okay, let me ask you a question about that because obviously that's a theme not just on your show, but in the, in the business right now, it's being discussed quite a bit. But you as a filmmaker can be schematic, strategic. You know, you talked even just about the, you know, the incredible sequencing of last episode's events and how there's a lot of design and a lot of silent movie inspiration there. And so, like, is there a tension between an art form?

that is necessarily, you know, technological and require strategy. And then the way that people think about what kinds of stories that they should tell and that requiring a kind of schematic strategy. Yeah, I think to me it's always about whatever this, because the thing about the, you know, the chase and everything like that, yeah, you can't do that and try to do it on a reasonable budget and everything without massively planning every moment, at least on our show. because there are people who can do things like that on a big budget and they go, well, let's just get out on the freeway and let's just figure it out.

And I'm like, no. But that's very different than the idea of storytelling. And for me, the storytelling thing is no matter what it is, and how silly it is if you could just be honest. You know, and it just has like a truth to it. And I think sometimes what Sally's story, I think, did have a lot of truth to it. I think what Natalie's saying is has zero truth to it. She just, if you watch her in the scene with the algorithm,

Darcy Cardin is writing down everything they're saying. She's on her phone, writing down. Here's what people like. Here's what the algorithm likes. I didn't get up on that. And then she goes and she makes a show about her called Just Deserts. And she immediately gets a writer's room. they love her and they're having a great time, you know, because it's just, you know,

and I'm not saying that I don't know shows that have done that, but it was, it was just a, you know, shows that have been made that have done that, but I definitely have been pitched stuff like that before, you know, where someone will be like, oh, I'm working on a this, you know, it's the old this meets this. It's this that worked meets this thing that made that worked, you know, but now it's like algorithm likes this meets the algorithm, this other thing the algorithm likes, you know. Right. That's like this podcast.

It's like inside the actor's studio meets the rewatchables. It's great. Well, I mean, people said it about Barry. It's like, oh, it's like, you know, breaking bad meets waiting for Guffman or something. You know what I mean? It's like it's a way of pitching her, you know, and I don't mind it. But it's the actual storytelling, what the story's about if you can make that honest and true. And something from your, you know, not, it doesn't have to be fully your experience,

but the feelings you've had, you know, the feelings you've had of, of anxiety or depression or loss or whatever, you know, you put that in it. Let me tell you my feelings about Robert Wisdom as a closer here.

So we'll talk about Gene and Fuchs maybe together. I don't think we had talked about how you had cast the immortal bunny Colvin when he first appeared when we were talking about it. But we can talk about him now because he obviously has this tremendous gravitas as an actor and that scene

between him and Fuchs and his car is just awesome just really funny and powerful can you talk about having him on the show and this character he's the best I mean that was I gotta give credit to Sherry Thomas our casting director just said what about Robert Wisdom and I said oh can he

can he would he mind a reading and she said absolutely and he read for me while we were shooting like we hadn't cast that part yet so I was I was shooting a scene that was cut, but it was a scene from episode five that was cut, and I went to my house

and read with Robert Wisdom over, like this, like over Skype, you know, or Zoom. And he was just amazing. It was unbelievable. And I asked Sherry, I was like, will he, you know, will he do it, you know, will he do it? and she was like, yeah, he's in.

It was wild, man. It was crazy. He was the nicest, he is the nicest human being on the planet, so warm, we'll try anything, you know. That scene where he's realizing, he and Albert are kind of realizing the same, realizing separate things at the same time, that was a scene where we have very little time to shoot that, and that was shot. I think most people will see it and go. Yeah, right, you know.

But for me and the DP and get with that, that scene was fun because we shot it, we didn't like, it was the first time I've shot something with going like, here's how we're going to edit it. Like you, you know, you, we edited in camera in a way where we only shot what you see. So we're never covered Sarah Burns or Gary Krause. It was, you know, we shot it in the order that you see it. So we started off with her pointing to the thing. This is the guy.

Then we shot, you know, Albert realizing. And then the shot of Robert realized. And then you pop back and you do it this way. And we just did it. And we shot that scene so fast. And we all kind of went, well, we're shooting away where there's only one way to edit this. You know, it's like you have to edit it this way. And because of time.

And it was, I was so happy when Frankie, our editor, call, and was like, yeah, this is great. This is so easy. I just like, went, like, I edited that scene in like 45 minutes, you know. You do get the sense that this is all headed towards something very messy based on the fact that I think the last shot we see is Albert loading his. That was a hard shot. That Kenny Davis, got to give credit with Craig. Kenny Davis, Dolly Grip, who also did the opening, the big one or in episode one. Kenny Davis did that shot.

I said, I want to go super fast into the drawer, go up to the gun, and then go up to him. And that was one of the hardest shots we had to do to the season to time all that, right? It was tough. It definitely leaves you hanging. Let's talk about Gene really quickly, just because his master class is fucking hilarious and ridiculous. He had to do that big oneer by himself,

and that took a while, but, man, Henry nailed it. He's really, really funny, and his masks are, ridiculous and I guess sort of bad on purpose. Yeah, and I love those two acting students. Let's split up. What is the thinking about? I felt like his character kind of got back into the show with that conversation between him and Janice's father.

It felt like he had been kind of operating in an orbit of his own for a couple of episodes. Was the hope there to get him back in? Yeah, well, I think what was happening was he's trying to, in episode five he's trying to um he's apologizing so he's like apologizing to people and now he's he's having to earn it you know so episode six was him going to laura san dieucoma's character who's i think she's amazing this season and going to her and saying let me you can have all my money you can do whatever you want like take all of it you know like i don't care and it's his way of trying to repair this woman for ruining her career.

And I like that he's not forgiven either. Even when she's on set, she's kind of like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what's happening, you know. But it needed to have that feel where it's not about him giving it to her. It's about, okay, she's been giving this opportunity, but she's got to do it herself and she does, you know. And, and, but no, but then the chickens have to come home to roost, you know.

and when he finds that out and confronts Gene and we've now established that he's this amazing interrogator that he can see that he's sweating, you're like, oh man, he's so fucked. Because he thinks he's out, but he's not. And I think that's the point with all these characters. They think like, oh, I've done good deeds. I'm out.

And you're like, no, dude. No, no, no, no. It's not the way this works. It's the perfect test of how good of an actor is Gene. You know, it's like you've got the super-powered interrogator facing him down and he can't sell it. He can't sell it at all. He's terrible at selling it. Yeah, he's not that good. And so I am, I will say like, I was really happy with that, but I will say this next, the last episode of season is incredibly intense. I will just say that anybody listening to this.

It's very, very intense. It's not a lot of jokes in the last episode. And I mean, I think it all goes to a place where, you know, I like the episode a lot, but it is very, very intense. And we have a colorist who's a very sweet guy. And he said, oh, it usually takes me a day to be one of these episodes. And he said the last episode, the season took him a couple of days because he kept on having to take breaks. Oh, how exciting. Yeah.

Well, you don't know it when you're making it. And then you screen it for people and people are like, Jesus fucking Christ. And so, yeah. So I just warning everyone. I am tantalized. You know I like that sort of stuff. I think everybody else does too. I think they're connecting to the extremity that you're putting on us.

Bill, hey, thanks for chatting again. And I think I'll see you next week, right? I'll see you next week, man. Okay, man. Thank you. Thank you to Bill Hader. Thank you to our producer Bobby Wagner for his work on this episode. If you enjoyed this, like Bill.

Hale Hater said, tune in next week to the final episode of the third season of Barry and then tune in to the Prestige TV pod to hear us break it all down. We'll see you then.