The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Barry’ Season 4, Episode 4 Recap With Bill Hader

Episode Date: May 1, 2023

Sean Fennessey is joined by ‘Barry’ cocreator-director-star Bill Hader to break down the fourth episode of the season, including the various influences Hader drew from in stitching together the episode. Host: Sean Fennessey Guest: Bill Hader Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, long-time writer with the Atlantic Magazine on tech, culture, and politics. There is a lot of noise out there, and my goal is to cut through the headlines, loud tweets, and hot takes in my new podcast, plain English. I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It's time to refresh your yard during spring backyard days at the Home Depot. Get low prices guaranteed on propane grills starting at $179, like the next grill three burner gas grill, or get $50 off to select Weber Spirit grill

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and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. I'm Sean Fennessee, and this is the Prestige TV podcast. Today we're talking about the fourth episode of the fourth and final season of HBO's Barry. We're doing so with the star, a co-creator of the show, Bill Hater.

Hi, Bill. Hi. This episode's called The Takes a Psycho, title, I Enjoy, directed by you, written by Tau Kool-Aid. And this is the episode that features, I think, the smallest amount of screen time for Barry Berkman in show history. Is that a fact? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that was the whole idea was that he escapes from prison in episode three, and then what a

for as we've set up that there's three places he could be going and which of those places is he going, you know, and so it was more about the characters reacting to him being on the loose and where is he going to go. Because we did have a brief moment where we thought, okay, we're going to track him as he's escaping from prison and he's like in the woods someplace and all this, but it was just really boring and I just thought it's more interesting to feel the tension of he can kind of show up anywhere you know it's really effective really kind of kind of yeah for me maybe I'm watching the show a little more closely than other people are but I'm the whole time I was like where's Barry where's Barry where's Barry where's Barry so it worked um it did remind me too like the something we haven't

discussed before is the score of this episode I thought was brilliant yeah Dave Wingo is a genius He's there. And Dave is an amazing composer because he's also a massive film fan. And I mean like a for real film nerd. And so he's also gets when you say, well, maybe this should have no music in it. And he gets, yeah, he thinks that's great, you know, or he's not someone who's constantly trying to get their stuff in, you know. He wants to be right, you know.

There's a sparse. with the cue, the kind of like thriller cue that comes in this episode a few times that I thought was impressive, but it cuts out at times where you're like, oh, I thought we were building towards something or are we not? I thought it was really well done. Yeah, that's the idea is that it's just

kind of, you know, I was talking to I'm like, you know, it's just got to be like the heartbeat of all the characters is rising, you know, and it's just keeping that tension up. It's really effective. The centerpiece of the episode really feels like Hank and Christobal.

And a ton happens between their characters. And in some ways, it felt like if there was a show that was just about these two characters, and there could be a show that is just these two characters, you know, this would have been in some ways the grand finale of their love story, their tragic love story. So maybe we can start there with sort of like what you were thinking about. How did you know that their arc together was going to go to this place? Well, we always knew, I think, that Christal

had to die and that it was, I came into the, I'll say this, I came into the writer's room and I said, while we were doing press and episode three was coming out, I said, I think, I think, I think, I think Christopal is going to have to die, and I think Hank's got to be responsible for it. And they, with the exception to Duffy, Boudreau, everyone kind of fought me on it. And it was one of those things where I left the room so they could all vent. And I came back in and it was, you know, pitches of like, can't Christobal be like a kept man?

Like he's a part of this new regime, but he's unhappy. And I was like, would Christopher do that? I don't think Christopher is that kind of person. You know, he's pretty strong. And I said, for where this needs to go, and if you want to, Hank's trying to be a tough guy, this is what comes with it. It's kind of like what Barry learned in season one when Chris died. You know, it's like, you know, I want to be a badass.

I want to be a strong man. I want to do this. and this whole idea we can have both things. And it's like you can't, you know, when you're in this world. And so I think backing up a bit, it was always kind of, it was always clear from the beginning when we were writing season four that Hank was going, that Hank and Cristobal were going to try to recreate what they had in season two. and then Hank

because of what happened him at the end of season three where he has this kind of PTSD where he's needing to feel like he's in control and tired of being seen as weak and soft that he's like I'm not weak and soft you know he says in the episode it took a psycho to save you from your crazy ex-wife you know that's kind of where he's at right now

that he was going to to sell them out, you know, double cross the man he loves. And the way I remember describing it to the writers, because they really were not, they were like, this is too crazy. But I said, think of it this way. It's like if they were a couple and Hank said, hey, man, I just, I bought a mansion. And Christopher Ball was like, what? We don't have that kind of money. No, no, no, but I bought a mansion and we're going to live there. And that's what we're going to live. And, and I'm putting my job and we're going to just live in this mansion and it's going to be great. But you're going to have to just deal with it.

If you look at it from that way, Cristobal at some point would go, you're not the person I thought you were. This is insane. I'm getting out of this. It's like if you're in a relationship and someone takes a giant 180 from who you thought they were to understand it from Christopal's point of view. So that was, I remember in the writing, that was a big deal. and then just trying to map out the double cross

where it made sense. And I said last week, you know, when we were talking about notes from different people on the show, initially, it was totally that you thought at the beginning of this episode that Noho Hank was freaking out because Barry got out of prison. It was all about that.

That's why he was anxious. That's why he was being weird. So when the sand silo happened, it was a complete shock. And Kyle Ryder, who's edited the show, seasons one and two, he's the editor of Atlanta, one of the editors of Atlanta, I showed him the episodes, and he said, I think you're going to want Bautier in episode three to say, you got to like get rid of these guys and join us.

And he goes, because right now it's a little tough for me because in episode four, You've given me one door that Hank can go in, which is Barry got out. And then at the last second, the sidel, you go, no, there's two doors that he's going in. And I think, I don't think it's tipping it if you have the two doors at the beginning. Like, is this because of Barry or is this because he's feeling pressure from the Chechens to sell out Cristobal? Right. And I thought that was a really good note. So we had an ADR, had the Butier guys say, um, you know.

you got to get rid of them. But it just kind of, for what happens later in the show, and to show the whatever you want to call it, the de-evolution of Hank, you know, you needed this to happen. But what I liked about it was to make it as human as possible, which is he thinks he can just strong arm the person that he's dating. And he's finally being open with him.

So he's been lying to him for the last three episodes. And then he's finally open with him. And there's so much pent up resentment and anger in that scene with him where he's, you know, he's like, we were going to be legitimate. And he's like, you know, when you say that, you sound naive. You know, that conversation should have happened in Santa Fe. This all should have happened earlier, but he let it go too long. And I, that scene with Hank and Christobal at the end is one of my favorite things we've done on the show. It's really, I think those actors are unbelievable in that scene.

I wrote that scene with Duffy Boudreau, and I just thought, just make it sound like a real fight in that, and a fight, if you can relate to this, because Duffy and I've said, we both relate to this, where you get into an argument with someone you're with and you think, okay, this is going to blow over. And then when you see that it's not, so you double down on your points of view and then you see that that's actually a deal breaker for them. So then you try to like backtrack out of panic, but the damage has already been done. Right. So it's like taking that idea and then elevating it to this life, you know, exaggerating it to a life or death situation, you know. But I love that. Hank's like, I'll sleep on the couch. and then, you know, a couple days

you'll be over this, you know? And it's like, yeah, it's just not what's going to happen. I would never fall in love with the psychopath. It was the line that resonated most deeply with that in that sequence. Yeah, and I like when he

says, who are you? And the way Anthony goes, oh, Hank, you know, he's just, and if you watch when he stands up, Carl Hersey and I, the DP, we framed it. So when Hank stands up, the windows behind him, there are these like oval windows that make it look like he has wings. Like it looks like he's like this angel of death or something. It's really interesting.

But he stands up and he yells at him. That was really important to show, yeah, like he thinks he, what I like about the scene is he says, you know, to rule stuff, you got to make the hard decisions. You got to like, you know, that's what it is to, you know, you want to be a, fucking crime lord, now we're crime lords, and you got to make the tough decisions. And he goes, all right, I'm leaving you. And he goes, well, the tough decision is, do I let him live or not, you know? So he ends up having to act on his declaration. And it ruins him. And I think, you know, the way Anthony acts that scene where he sits down on the couch after he says, you know, get away from me and he sits on the couch, that, that's one of the most

amazing pieces of acting I've ever that and Sarah Goldberg last season after the fight where Barry's like Barry Berkman did this say Barry did this

repeat after me that thing Sarah just blew me away in that scene in this season there's a couple of moments like that that'll point out and we get to him where I'm like that's some of the best where you sit at the monitor and you go

I don't know how they're doing that you know. Yeah my sophisticated note here was the performances here wow So, yeah, well, I mean, you know, Anthony Kerrigan is doing when he sits down there. I also have to point out he did that. We did seven takes of that. And he did that seven times just like what you saw, you know.

And it's one of those awful things that you're trying to time the camera pushing in with the guy stepping up to the couch. We purposely put in the same shirt as crystal ball. So you go, oh, Christobal's coming back. Oh, no, it's not Cristobal. you know um yeah that out of focus trick was really you you had me for a second i was hoping reconciliation was on its way okay and then it's like oh no it's not him and then i remember sitting when neil our steady cam operator who's another person that should get massive props for this that scene neal's steady cam operator on the last of us he's a genius he's been around forever nicest guy on the planet

that shot where they go away and they're fighting and then the camera is very slowly following them at a respectful distance but it's like we're a friend kind of watching this relationship move away from us you know but we're moving towards it we don't want it to end but it's moving away from us and then to recreate the shot from the end of season three when they hug we that's a that was that was uh that was uh that was a conscious choice. Like when he says, Hank, it's done. That is exactly what Janice Moss said to Barry at the end of season one.

And so when he says that, again, it's like trying to like make this correlation between him and Barry. Yeah, I mean, I just, it was, it was definitely a thing I remember when we were shooting it. And I had to like direct Michael Irby how to lay down and how his death was going to look and everything. It was really moving. The crew was respectfully very quiet. It was like the crew.

It was very beautiful. They were very quiet and no one talked. Everyone just kind of sat there as we like talked it out. And it was very emotional. Like both those guys, they, Michael and Anthony love each other. They're like good friends, you know. And I think it kind of really,

that was the first scene we shot of the whole season that really hit everybody. Oh, this was the last season of the show. So I just remember that night. being very respectful, very loving, very beautiful, but also incredibly sad. There's a huge internet hive of fans who really champion Hank and Christobal and their romance, too. And I think this is going to hit them like a ton of bricks. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, it has to be what's right for the story.

And I think if Hank wants to live like a, you know, a crime boss, this is what happens, you know. Yeah, it moves on. Hopefully, if you stick with the season, you'll see it has other ramifications, big ramifications. It did feel very in keeping in what you were saying about them trying to recreate season two. Even in this episode, we see Gene go back to Big Bear. We saw Sally earlier this season go back to her hometown. We see Barry trying to recreate his love affair with Sally. We see all these characters trying to repeat what they perceive to be happier times in their life or safety.

And every time they try to do that, it backfires on them completely. Yeah, you can't do that. You just have to, none of them want to accept it and just try to move forward saying, Barry can't move forward going like, I'm a murderer. He had one moment in episode one where he was able to say it. And then he got the reaction he wanted from Fuchs. And then, okay, good. I'm loved.

I'm loved. I'm good. Yeah, it's about, like I said, season one was about redemption and season four somehow is like taking responsibility, you know, and it's tough, it's tough for all of them, you know. But Sally, I think you have the most, I think, sympathy for her because she had something really terrible done to her, and she can't help but be herself.

She has integrity, you know, which I'm really glad. the show kept that. Like she has integrity. She's a good actor, you know. She just is, you know, it was helpful for me to see this, the story pull this way for Sally because so many people hated that character. And we always thought you hate Sally, but Barry kills people. But, you know, we're very so likable.

And that's like, he's killing people, you know, give me a break. But not that we were responding to that. consciously, it was nice that the story went there, you know? But, but yeah, I've heard like friends and, you know, people going like, oh, people are going to be really devastated by this. And it's like, well, I mean, that's the, I think it's earned, you know. I don't think it's, it's a thing to, that we're doing just to do, you know, like to shock people. It seems like when you were planning the story out, it's like, well, I think this is where this needs to go, you know, and Hank needs to really fuck up. I can't move on.

from Hank and Christobal without citing that Christabal says to Hank at a certain point this is what happens when you hire two guys with a podcast. You just, you just, you just, a lot of shots at podcasters. I'm not, I'm not letting go. I'm not, I'm not letting it go, Bill. You know, the Sally arc

is fascinating because as you say, she has integrity, and this is an episode that reminds us even more so that she has like a raw talent that is undeniable. And even in these odd circumstances, is she can't get away from her own talent. And she keeps, you know, as she enters this new phase of her life

where she's becoming an acting coach. And also, I guess I was hoping you could talk a little bit because you have discussed your career and the kind of weird arc of your career, how, you know, P-Aing and, you know, working in comedy and SNL and as an actor and now as a writer-director, how quickly, like, careers kind of ebb and flow and people can kind of like fall really low

and then rise up really quickly. And I thought that this was an amazing example of that in Sally's arc. She kind of gets lucky and she gets an in. And all she, again, it's like all she has to do is just teach this model how to act and something that she finds, you know, deplorable. This like superhero movie where the actresses are in like scantily clad outfits and things. Please respect mega girls. I mean, those girls have a,

have a name. Well, yeah, Ali Wong came up with that name, by the way. It was something else. And then Ali was like, I go, it should be something a little bit lazier. And she's like, oh, you should just call it mega girls. But mega girls, it needed to be something, whatever it was, that Sally would find deplorable because then it makes her auditioning to be in it even more depressing, you know. It's like, even this. thing is like beyond shit you do that as an actor especially actresses my friends are actresses i you know i never would be in this thing or whatever and then it's like yeah i'm gonna do that yeah yeah it's like all right because i'm gonna you know they they have it it's a totally different

world you know where of being you know taken advantage of in a way that that like men do not go through you know so i i did it was and then it was interesting to do when a show that's a movie that's up extensively all run by women, and still she's feeling that, you know, it's not great. And that was what was nice about having Sean Hader there because then she can say, you know, in Cota, I worked on this, but now I'm working with models and Halloween costumes, you know, for the Infinity Orbs. Can you tell me about casting her? One, I thought she was just as an actress, very funny.

And she was so funny. I saw her at the premiere and she's like, Bill, I'm so worried. I come out so bad. And I'm like, Sean, you're really, really funny. She's so funny. Oh, my God. Effortlessly funny. I love the look on her face where she's just trying to convince herself.

Like, yeah, whoever sees, a mega girl is going to say, yeah, that's a direct Dakota. Yeah. You know. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about zebbound, terse appetite. The first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zetbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zetbound contains terseptitide and should not be used with other terseptide-containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines.

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And she's not seasoned enough and also is opportunistic in this moment where she's kind of performing to show her how, show Sean Hater, how great she is at acting. But also, Kristen is kind of blown away by her performance, you know, tell me how to do that. And it's, it is this mysterious, I think talent is this mysterious concept to people, too. You know, like, you either got it or you don't. And she's got it, but maybe not in the right form. Yeah, it's what Kristen does or... Well, like what Sally shows her that she can do

and then everyone is sort of like marveling at it, but everyone has a different relationship to it. Like Kristen wants it because it can take her to the next level. Sean wants her to put it inside of another person. Sally wants somebody to recognize her and tell her she's great. Like, it's this complicated... That was a great complicated scene. Yeah, yeah.

I think it was, and I thought the, the, when Sarah steps in front of her is really funny, and blocks her. Yeah. I do think that is definitely, yeah, it's hard. It's like, you know, I'm, Alec Berg and I would always talk about, yeah, the, you know, when Magic Johnson tried to be a coach and he was not a great basketball coach because he was like, just do this. That's magic Johnson.

You know what I mean? Yeah. It's hard to explain it to somebody. you can't inject that into, you know, people. They just either have it or they don't, you know, and it's like you can help them be honest or, you know, be in the moment and things like that if they really want to like learn how to do it. So, but what Sarah does in that scene is,

is really funny too. Here's what's so good about her is that it's emotional, but it's really, really funny. Sister, no. Every time she does that, I laugh out loud. But, yeah, I mean, it's really, it's, it is hard. I don't know how you do it. I don't know.

It's just a conundrum of that thing, which is like, Sally is like super talented, you know, attractive, the whole thing. And that was a thing that was interesting. And when you lived in L.A. for a while, you would see those people. And you're like, how are you not working? That is something that crossed my mind.

There's a lot of people like this in L.A. A lot of people like that where you'll see crazy, like, the looking guy who had a small part on a TV show. And you're like, wow, that guy was amazing. He's going to blow up. And then I've had the experience of going, and that guy is catering a private party. and that happens.

And that's not saying having those catering jobs are bad. That's great. You got to keep working and doing your thing, but it happens. But a lot of this is luck and what people want. I mean, it is never lost on me that I happen to come to the attention of Warren Michaels a season or two after Jimmy Fallon left. And they're like, it'd be great to have another guy. guy who did impressions like that on the show.

And that's just luck. If they had someone else like that and I was trying to get on, I would not have been on that show. So it's, it's a lot of stupid luck, you know. But so that's the hard thing about Sally is you're like, that's what's interesting. If she was someone who wasn't good or didn't,

you're like, this is never going to work for them. But it should be working for her. And that's what's so. frustrating. You don't necessarily let her off the hook and let her be like a you know spiritually pure great actor. You know, she's

like she says at the end I was just copying you and she's like, no, but it was great. And like her ego is still there, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also she can't be a victim either. She's like, that's the thing. You got to make sure they're always themselves. So even her trying to scoop the role in front of the director

when she's supposed to be helping the person, And that's like shitty, you know, but you get, that's what the guy says at the end. Like, I get why you tried that, you know. And that actor is amazing, Paul. He actually auditioned very early days for Fuchs, that actor who plays Mark. Yeah. Oh, interesting. He was giving me a little no-ho Hank in the look, actually.

He, if you remember, do you recognize him from Robocop? Oh, yeah. And Robocop who melts and gets hit by the car. We were all privately. you know, as kids who came across RoboCop and was freaked out on television. We were like, probably her to see the DP Q mommy. He's like, that's the guy who gets hit by the car

and disintegrate. I'm like, yeah. Yeah, he's also in the blob, the remake of the blob. Like, I just, he was in every, you know, so getting to work with him was really cool. And he's just, he's an amazing director too. That kind. You're really, the hit list. I keep saying this to you of character folks

who've had long careers. It's just extraordinary on this show. I love them, yeah. I'm just getting to meet them is really exciting. And that's Sherry Thomas, too, or a casting director. Let's talk about Gene a little bit. You know, Gene also a person who's, you know, his son and lawyer are trying to scuttle him away

to keep his trap shut up in Big Bear. And Henry has been in a tricky spot this whole season. I feel like with what his character has to do and what he represents. Like, I was wondering if you could tell me a little bit about kind of what you wanted to see for Gene now that we're kind of through the first half of this final season. Well, it really just has to be that he had this moment

where people were cheering for him in episode one for being selfless and a hero. And then you see how his ego has now got him to the beginning of episode four with him literally saying, the only thing we can do with you is keep you on the top of the mountain. We can't talk to the press. you know what I mean and we're just going to wait here until the trial starts and then we'll come get you you know like we like we just he's now being completely isolated and how fast he does it um he blows up all the goodwill so fast and I just think that's kind of like been a reoccurring thing for him that at the end of episode the end of season three him capturing Barry is such a big amazing win for him him.

It was amazing and such a huge, you know, he did it for somebody else. Janice Moss was someone he loved more than himself. It's the only person we've seen in the whole show that Gina loved more than himself. And he's kind of, I don't know, he's just kind of blowing it. So by being put up there up in this cabin and then finding out Barry escaped, it was more about him now being, for the first time and you know since really ended you know of season three but really being like in danger he's afraid for his life and he's got the ripped horn gun and and then he ends up

because of that fear in the situation he's in he ends up shooting the person that he should be mending things with instead of thinking about himself i mean those boys very important in episode one in a season four that it's him and Leo sitting there with the DA and Leo's looking at him like, wow, I'm really proud of my dad. He's now being a good guy. You know, he's a hero and that he disappointed him. And then even Leo, him being disappointed in him is trying to be nice by bringing him Coral Tree Cafe and the ends of getting shot is really, you know, funny, but also it kind of says

something about Gene, you know, just, uh, how yeah, he doesn't have his priority straight. And that was the other thing I said, you know, it's like he's afraid of his one son and he shoots one son but ends up hitting his real son.

And that's who he should be having a real relationship with, much like the way Barry should just like take responsibility for what he's done or anything or Sally should just accept where she is in her career and just figure it out, you know, or whatever, you know, or Hank should just be like,

I don't like being a bad guy. I fucked up. I did the wrong thing. Please forgive me. That's all you have to say, but instead, it's like, yeah, you just keep doing the wrong thing out of your own ego. I think last season we talked a bit about, you had mentioned Flannery O'Connor, and this episode felt a bit of that sort of like macabremmly, funny story about everyone's moral

failings, you know, that everyone's ego is kind of getting in the way. And so they do stuff that is kind of funny. but is also really tragic. Yeah, like Sally going back with Barry at the end of the episode is really tragic, you know, but also funny, you know, in a weird way.

And also, like, of course, he makes her feel safe. That was something we found in the edit, actually, it was when L.A. Jameson, who plays Kristen, it is great. When she's saying, you know, I'm so sorry your boyfriend got out of prison.

In the edit, I said, what if a helicopter just comes over right here and drowns out what everybody's saying? Because it really does not matter. It's all kind of like you're in Sally's head for a second. You know, the helicopter kind of represents Barry. So the helicopter is going around just representing Barry. And as it goes over like that, it drowns out. Is it meant to be the exact helicopter we see at the beginning of the episode?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the helicopters are circling Los Angeles. And so every time you hear the helicopter, it's Barry in my mind. It's like a reminder of him. So by having that helicopter coming and drown everything out, it's just he's here. He's in her head. It's loud.

And she just, this weird acceptance comes over her. And I like how she says, I'll see you tomorrow, but she knows, I'm like, I'll see you tomorrow. There's last time I bring it.

It's her, when I remember we were shooting that scene, Sarah and I talked about, this is you saying goodbye to acting. This is your, your goodbye to acting. So when you're talking to her and you're saying goodbye to her, you're really saying goodbye to acting.

So when she's like, I know, like I was good, you know, I'm really good. Interesting. which I thought was, if you look at from that point, it's really interested. Like, it reads.

Can you tell me then about just that sequence with your character coming out of the darkness and why you wanted to shoot it that way? Yeah, well, that was the very first day of shooting because we had the Barry Salley set of their apartment. We had to tear it down to make up so we can make room for the big mega girl set. So we The first day of shooting We shot

Fuchs and all the scenes With the feds in that little room From episode one and two You know that little strange room Which we did see in a in a In a prison And then We shot some other stuff

I can't remember off the top of my head And then we ended the day in that scene And with the scene you shot That was like That's like When we wrap that shot It was like great first day, we're all back, you know, season four.

So the reason he's coming out of darkness is that and Sally knows he's hiding in there, which I kind of like, she comes in, the camera pans around, we land on the dark room, which is the room that Sally backed into last season. So that dark area, and then she knows he's in there.

It's almost like a, like a cave, like a weird troll or something. And when she says it and he comes out and he's all dirty and looks like shit and everything. And then initially there was like going to be a scene there. And then I think a couple days before we did the rehearsal, I was like, she should just say, let's go. Why are we doing the scene?

Like there's nothing else to say. It's like, let's go. And then it's, funny where he's like, really? Like, he does not, he did not think that's the way it was going to go. You know, he thought she'd be a little like,

what the fuck did you do? And then we had this big choice of, well, do we show them get out? Like, how are they going to get out? Because there's, like, cops looking for them and all these things. And, you know,

is that the top of episode five? Or, you know, do we show them, like, driving away and getting away from everybody and all this? stuff and I was like, I don't care. I just want to know once she says, let's go and he says really cutting to black and then you see those two kids fighting and it's really nice to be like, where are we? You know, and then one of my favorite shots of the whole season is that dolly shot of the kid walking away where the sun is in the top right hand corner. That looked with the tractor,

I mean, that looked, that looked so great. That was one of those. Carl and co timed it out perfect where he's like, if we shoot this at this time, the sun's going to be right there and it'll look perfect. And real Terrence Malick vibes there. Yeah, yeah. I love that. And then, and then, yeah, just showing that

a thing that we talked about at the beginning of the season, which was, it's the last season, what if we showed these guys, these characters, what if we show them getting what they wanted but what do we show them actually putting on playing because the acting idea went away but this idea of playing apart to be able to live with yourself and try to get a version of what it is you want you know and can they hold on to that was an idea we had so the the ending of episode four is an introduction to yeah we we jump ahead eight years and uh and uh and Barry and Sally

it's very different and very the same. It's an effective cliffhanger, I'll say. I was fortunate to have future episodes to look at when I finished four, but other people won't be so lucky as they listen to this probably. Yeah, yeah. I mean, when we were in the writer's room,

we all said it'd be, you know, it might be, that was first day of writing, season four. There was like all these, it's kind of like every season. You kind of just talk about the big themes. They're in prison. They're in this. And I said, I think it'd be really interesting if midseason, you know, I always wanted Barry and Sally to have a kid. And I wanted to know what that would look like. Because Barry had a daydream in episode and season one. What did he always want is like it's him and Sally and a boy taking their family picture and it's like yeah that's what he always wanted or him with kids and they're like and he has a bunch of Oscars and they're like

who's and he can't remember fuchs remember and all this stuff and so it was like well what if he got that what would that look like sort of sort of got it not exactly yeah yeah what if in his mind though he got it in his mind he has it but in order to have it you know you'll see in order to have it. There's a lot of, there's a lot going on in order for him to have it. And a lot of,

you know, big word, you know, coming up is denial. So much to look forward to. This is a great episode. And that was a great turn. Thanks, Bill.

Thanks, thank you. Thanks to Bill Hater. Thanks to our producer, Bobby Wagner for his work on this episode. Please stay tuned next week, episode five of Barry with Bill Hater. We'll see you then.