The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Billions’ S5E11 Recap

Episode Date: October 1, 2021

Ahead of the ‘Billions’ season finale, The Ringer’s Logan Murdock and Wosny Lambre recap Episode 11, “Victory Smoke.” Logan and Wos break down what happened in the episode, the overarching theme of the season and what predictions they have for characters like Wags, Taylor, and more on the season finale.  Hosts: Logan Murdock, Wosny Lambre  Associate Producer: Lani Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Order now at order. Sweetgreen.com. Maddening, man. We are here for the Prestige TV pod. This is Logan Murdoch. I'm here with Big Wise. You can touch him on group chat. And honestly, wherever you get podcasts around, he's going all the way around. You can catch me on the real ones. But we are here to talk billions. And more specifically, we're here to talk about season five, episode 11, victory smoke. I'm about to recap this thing. Waz, this is like a really interesting episode because I know the season finale's always get the acclaim in series.

But I don't think like this episode before the season finale gets enough acclaim because that's the one that sets up all the shit that makes the season finale go. It sets the plants all the seeds that you need for the season finale. And it's a bit of a, been a bit of a weird season. But going into this episode, just a brief recap, Axe is trying to get into the weed business or more than anything he's been tricked into getting into the weed. weed business because Taylor, Chuck, and Prince have all teamed up to get on Axe. It's like when the 73 and nine warriors came up to get against the cabs.

We don't know if Axe is the cavaliers right now, or he's just like, I don't know what he is right now. But Axe is probably going to face jail time. Why? What are we think about after this episode? What are you thinking after? Because you just finished watching this episode. What are you thinking your immediate thoughts right now?

My immediate thoughts was, so while they're all smoking those cigars in the office as like a victory cigar, you know how in the culture now we say we're smoking on such and such pack. I was like, Axe Capital is smoking on an Axe Capital bag right now in the office. It's its own pack. They're rolling up themselves, right? But this is like, this is like corporate oligarch pack. They're not, they not put, it's like, it's kind of whack, though. You know why?

Because it's not, it's not, if you're going to do a cannabis company and I know where we're at, I don't even know to LA or the New York laws, but I feel like you can roll up a joint. They let you do what you do now, yeah. So I think they would have been more appropriate to roll it up and then do that. I get like the red hour back and we're going big into that. But so let's get right into it, man. Like Axe gets, he gets double crossed and somehow Lawrence Boyd is involved on this in the cannabis deal.

when Lawrence Boyd lives to like screw over acts, I don't get what is going on in that thing. I don't think we're meant to know exactly where his role is yet. Not yet, not yet. But I think the biggest thing in this episode is really just the theme of the whole season five, which is everybody wants to win at the price of everything else. You talk about Chuck, who was willing to lose his wife for like the Upt Team time, which honestly, you are a wild.

boy at Chuck because I am keeping Randy Rose on my squad, right? I'm not going to let her get to my moral enemy. And then you got, you have Axe running after Prince who was like this corny, like trying to mask all of his competitiveness with corny slogans and things like that. We've seen that this whole time. And then we have Taylor's like obsession to get things way too early. Then we even got like Kate Sackers out here trying to get her political ambition, getting her political bag.

What does I say this season really say about wanting something so bad that when it all costs, but when you have to pay to Piper for the cost, is it all worth it in the end? What do you think about how that work and how that is playing out in season five? So it's funny because I happened to watch the whole season five within the last three days, right? Because once I heard that they didn't finish shooting back in 2020, when the first seven episodes originally aired. I was just kind of annoyed by that. I was like, I don't want to watch it while it's half big. Like, like, they had to cut the season off. Like, am I going to watch it? So I watched it all within the last few days. And like, when the seasons began, a lot of the

themes was like, can people change? Is Chuck going to change? Is X going to do something different? It was about, like, can people change? And I think early on, the impressions was, nah, people don't change. They kind of sometimes change their behaviors. They might stop doing something or they might start a new hobby. But internally, it's the same thing that's driving them. And I think, you know, what you see by the end of the season is like, yeah, everybody is unchanged and everybody is still as ambitious, as nakedly ambitious as they've ever

been on the show. To the detriment of, like you said, Logan, everything else. Right. Your father, you're willing to throw your father under the bus. You killed your marriage. Axis is just like, I don't care about losing money anymore. I don't care. Like, I just want to kill people who I don't like.

And even Taylor, like her own company and her own initiative, she's just like, you know what? I have to ruin this guy, like at the expense of literally everything else. And I think that's what you learned this season. Like none of these people will or can change. They're all basically just like one another as far as all. All they care about is personal ambition. And, you know, it just goes crazy.

It's funny you said that because with personal ambition, I always think about Kevin Durant after the 2017 finals where he says, like, I love this and it's supposed to be everything I ever wanted, but it didn't fulfill me, right? One thing you see throughout this season is that same Kevin Durant philosophy is like, these guys have made shitloads of money. I don't even know if generational wealth is, even appropriate for this. It's something higher than that, right? It's something way higher than this,

right? They've made all the money that they want. And all their ambition has really are, they've already got all their dreams. And I see this what acts this season where he's trying to get a bank. Why? Because he's trying to get richer, right? He's trying, like, what is the reason that you need to get a bank? And what him trying to get a bank, it's always funny to see him and Prince go at it. I think that that's really the biggest thing because Prince, it seems, at least for the moment has a purpose in his life, right, to make sure that he does it the right way, at least outwardly. That's something that he does. Does he have the same urges his ax? Sure. But he doesn't share, at least outwardly, Axes just wanting to crush every single thing. He does crush things,

and he's probably not in tune with all of his emotions, but he is the great 180 to whatever Axe is doing. Do you think that Prince will ultimately win this battle? Because honestly, when you see this, and this is something that we're going to get to with Chuck in a second, But with Axe, it seems like there's always a simple solution to win in the greater good, but he wants to crush him so bad. He'd rather take the 50 to nothing win over the 50 to 49 win. Do you think that that is the lesson here? And do you think that Axe will learn this lesson in time or will Prince just ultimately get him at the end?

So, you know, first, the first part about the bank, right, like the part where he decides, basically, he wants to be a banker and he gives the exposition as to why. he's like, yo, these dudes are too big to fail. Even when they screw up, governments come in and save these dudes. They have the easiest, cushiest job. So he's like, I want to be that. I'm tired of busting my hump. I'm tired of being like having to be two steps ahead of everything.

He says, you know, I want to be able to sleep at night, right? As comfortably as those guys do, as he's pointing at those bankers at like, I guess, Billion's version of like Davos or whatever. And then, but then you see like, he. He doesn't want to be a banker. He wants to be acts while owning a bank. He doesn't actually want to comport himself in the way that bankers do. And, you know, when you talk about Mike Prince, no, I don't think he's going to win.

Because, like, they're setting it up because of his whole, like, Hamlet routine, right? Where he's so hesitant and he's just wrapped by indecision. And I just don't know if I want to do this. Do you not believe him? Do you not believe him when he says this? No, I do believe him. But I think that's why he's going to lose. You understand?

Like the show shows you over and over and over again. When you have a moral compass, you get ran over every single time. I think the anecdote to that, though, is Axe being so obsessed with one person or two people that it always makes him lose. Now, the question is, how will Axe kill that urge to kill one person versus the greater good and being the best? How could he do that? What is your answer to him doing that? To me, ruthless doesn't have to be paired with stupid, right? But he's been stupid, though, but he's been stupid.

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Like, at every turn this season, Wendy, Taylor, everybody's just like, yo, bro, like, we got the W. Why are you going back to, like, try to get an extra killing? He's like, no, I need to kill him. I need to kill him. I need to kill him.

Even when he wins, there's something inside of him that's not allowing him to accept his victory. So like in the past, of course, there's been times where he was ruthless to people, but it served an end, right? Like it served something that he was actually pursuing for him to achieve it. This season, he's just a dog off a leash. Like this guy's- You know what I think it is? He has no balance.

He has no sense of balance. We'll talk about this later down the line. But once he divorced Laura, he didn't have any balance. He didn't have someone to tell him, yo, chill out. And his kids are too young and too impressionable to do that. You remember in the beginning of the season, where his kid does the Bitcoin thing and just fucks up the whole school.

And he's like, no, we're gonna save this. It's fine. You're good. Don't even trip. I'm gonna bring blackmail. And that was a very good, little, you know, little piece there for you

to go back to the end of the season. But I think the biggest thing would act is he just doesn't have a center right now. So all he has to get his single frustrations out is this company. And that's the only thing that he's ever had. He doesn't have the family to fall back on. And that's my argument.

against him winning. And we'll talk about why him getting centered later on in the episode, but I don't know if that's going to happen. I don't know if he's going to get centered just enough for Prince to get up. I want to talk about Chuck Rhodes because it's funny that Chuck and Axe are always going against each other, but they're literally the same person. One just has more money right now, right? That's something that you always see.

Chuck has, while Axe has this obsession with Prince, Chuck has this obsession with Axe. He's trying to close his bank, even with his dad, and he's trying to trick his dad into closing that bank. He's using his divorce with Wendy Rhodes to try to get into Axe Cap records, into their records, right? He's trying to lure him into this cannabis deal. When all you really want to say is, bruh, he's, you're going to lose everything. You're losing your wife who is, like, Wendy is honestly the coldest person in this whole show, right? Like, we get all of Matt, like, she's the one that, like, has everybody wrapped around her finger. And, and, you're going to, And he, including Taylor.

And so I don't, with Chuck in here, what is, he's willing to lose it all. But is that a good thing, man? He even lost his girlfriend, his new girlfriend, who seemed like she was tight, like perfect for him, right? She seemed cold, right? What do you, do you think that his obsession is going to ultimately lead to? Is he going to win anything out of this? What is he going to get? Yeah, you know, man, so Chuck, like, that's one of the coolest things about to show from the beginning is that they never positioned anybody.

as quote unquote good or bad. Even Wendy, we've seen her do some pretty vindictive, yeah. Some pretty vindictive cutthroat stuff. Like nobody's an angel, nobody's a devil. It's just they're trying to explain to you like, this is how power works. This is how it functions. This is how it corrupts. Like even the people with the best of intentions when they start out,

they're going to turn into a monster once they start chasing and wanting to wield power. Right. And so, you know, like Chuck again, he starts out like when he doesn't. get the the freaking kidney from the Honduras migrant worker. You know, like he has his moments in the season where he doesn't do the OD over the top Chuck thing. But, you know, again, he's just nakedly ambition. Like you said, like he just straight up sacrificed his marriage.

It was like, because my wife will not quit this job and I'm going to have to kill this dude no matter what, then I'm just done with my wife. She's just going to have to be on the other side of this. And it's just remarkable to see. I love how it's crumbling all down. I think that Brian Kaufferman and the gang did a great job with this and just the writing of this, right? Because you're right. There's not a right or wrong answer.

It's very nuanced. It's very nuanced. And, you know, especially when you're, it's like you're writing a profile. I think they're doing a great job of writing a profile of every one of their lives, right? Because at some point you're like, fuck acts. And then you're like, fuck Chuck. But you're like, but I understand, right? And they do a good job of that thing.

season with fleshing that out. Like, when they show you the whole absentee dad thing with acts, and it basically explains, like, one, why he's hovering over his son's life like that, where he's, where they have the conversation, like, do I let him sink or swim on his own? And the

reason why he steps in so like he goes so over the top is because his dad literally did nothing for him. Right? So he's like, I'm going to do the opposite of what my dad did for me, which is nothing, which has abandoned me, which is leave me alone. And so that, that shows you why he's, you know, he treats his son this way where he's like, I'm going to give

this dude everything because I got nothing from my own dad. And then I think the dad thing explains sort of like the thing that drives him is that hate that, that nasty taste in his mouth that his dad left him. And that's what, that's what moves him in his direction. So he's like, look, if I became a 10 millionaire chasing that, excuse me, 10 billionaire. Yeah, get it straight. Yeah. Get it straight. Yeah, chasing that feeling in that pit inside of me, it becomes hard for people to get them off of that. I remember listening to an interview with 50,

and, you know, the interviewer credit to the person I'm forgetting now, but he's like, yo, 50, like, it kind of stopped pretty abruptly for you guys. It felt like y'all didn't try to change the sound, change this style. And 50's like, how am I change when we winning? Why would I listen to somebody telling me to change 10 million records out the gate? Then another 10. Then another number one. Why would I listen to somebody when I'm constantly winning?

It's funny because when that's the whole thing with the show, right, is like what is winning, right? Right. Because is it the longevity? Is it the G unit where they go above or they have a great two, three year run that's one of the biggest colossal runs of all time? Or do you want, because 50's not selling the records that he was selling no three, right? No. And so that's the same thing with this is what is winning, is winning conquering your, we're seeing this with Drake right now. now. You're conquering all of your enemies, but like, did you really win anything with certified

lover boy? That's it. I don't know. You're OVO. You're OVO. So I'm going to chill on that. I do want to make the point. I do want to make the point with this is like with Chuck, I do think there's a redeeming factor because in the beginning, remember, in the beginning of the show, he is not killing everyone he could kill. Like the Yale situation where he got caught up in some shit when he's, you know, the election fixing an old school election where he could have got the old Chuck would have gotten that done. I do feel there's a bit more empathy and I do think that he can come out on top with this. I don't know how yet, but I do think he can because he showed those signs where his axe

hasn't. Am I wrong to feel that way, Ross? No, you're not. And I'm interested for the finale to see how they handle that because there were those moments, genuine moments this season where we do see a change Chuck. I mentioned not buying somebody's freaking kidney off the black market, which is something. that he would have easily done in previous seasons. I think his relationship with Sacker,

where, you know, his previous protege, all he did was play the dude like a fiddle, lie to him at every single turn. Well, to be fair, to be fair, to be fair, the dude was a fiddle. He was. I mean, Brian Conardy was a fiddle, and he wasn't Kate.

And we'll get to that in a second because Kate is on the agenda. But go ahead, Walsh. No, like, you see, like, his relationship where her seems to be more genuine and rooted in some, actual respect for what she brings to the table. You know, he kind of did some underhanded shit underneath.

And she was like, no, stop that. We promised me we would be real with each other. And he kept any actually, you see him bringing her into the fold. And like, like, or even when he got kicked out of the school, got kicked out of Yale. And he just gracefully bowed out. I was like, aye, you know what? The old me would have fought y'all tooth and nail for this, right? The new me, I'm moving on.

So I'm curious to see how the showrunners be like, all right, are they going to reward this this principal behavior or are they not? I just have a hard time believing that they're going to reward Chuck for being a better person. You bought you. I mean, you know, I think that the gods, I'm

team Chuck by the way. I'm team Chuck by the way as you guys can see. But the thing is you brought up something, fatherhood, which is but you brought it in the thing with Axe. Fatherhood Chuck Senior is an interesting thing right now in this in this season because

when it came down to it, Chuck Jr. didn't give up the kidney was Axe, right? And Axe seems like the son that Chuck really wants, right? Or at least he wants those qualities in his current son, right? He really wants that. But do you see, how long

is Chuck Senior going to kind of do this? How long is he going to be Team Axe on this one, right? Because he is, he had all the time to be a double Asian, right? Remember when they go into the house? He has all the time to be a double agent and he has not crossed Axe just yet. Or Wendy, who he loves, who is going to be his daughter-in-law forever. He hasn't crossed those two yet.

Do we think that in the season finale maybe that that's going to happen? How long is this relationship going to last? Well, you know, that's a billion special. Like, we never know when the cross is going to double triple, quadruple. You never know what's coming around to bend with that. So, yeah, definitely that's something to watch. And, like, you know, when you touched on the theme of the fathers and sons, Like, that's a, especially early on, like, we see Wags is like having a crisis about what kind of father he's been to his sons and his daughters and all his illegitimate kids.

Father is taking a tell, it's taking a toll right now. Like, like, fathers are not doing. We're not doing great right now, guys. We need to be better fathers on television. We're not doing a good job right now. Axe being a terrible father. That really cool scene, I think it was episode 10 where Chuck makes, they just show him making an omelet. Like Paul Giamani.

No, that was one of the greatest scenes in television history. He got the flip. I was like, oh, this is nice. So parentage and fatherhood has definitely been a crazy part of the season and a theme of the season. And showing like, yo, how you're reared, man, the people around you are raising you have a big hand in like the type of person that you turn out to be or what demons you carry with you, you know, going forward. But yeah, we don't know what Chuck Senior about to do. We don't know, but I do want to talk about Taylor. Now, and their obsession with the scent.

Now, this is somebody, this is something that I can really relate to, right? Really being young in the space, right, and wanting something probably before you earned it, right? It's showing so much potential, but wanting something so bad, you're willing to skip steps. And I think with Taylor, they're so brilliant. They are such a brilliant everything, right? And, you know, they're right out of college. All they know is college step, and they have to go. through life, figuring out everything that was fucked up in their lives, you know, their relationship

with their father, that goes way back into past seasons, and also failing. And that's something that, especially with millennials, we can't fail at this point. Now, you know, we at least we have the mindset of where we can't fail. And they are going through that and having to be responsible for so much money. When it comes with their obsession with assent, they're trying to tell Axe what to do and Axe is like, yo, man, you're like 24 years old. What the fuck do you know? You don't know. So you're kind of getting those things right now. And now Taylor is actually right with their convictions. Now, how does Taylor kind of figure their way through this right now? How do they figure that out? Do you, how do they ultimately win in this one? Did they figure out,

how does this work out? Because they've teamed up with Chuck and Prince, probably for the greater good as what we know right now. But they're teaming up once again against acts. What do, how did they, do they get their own company again? Do they have to go out on their own? What do you see happening with Taylor? You know, Taylor, I feel like, is the closest thing that the audience has to an avatar, meaning the way they positioned that character is they are the only person with any sort of

principled stances or morality to how it is they carry out their business, right? Taylor is the only character who has that. However, I think the show's general thesis is that Taylor cannot win because they are drawn to power just as much as all of the other bad actors. So no matter how altruistic she wants to, excuse me, they want to be in how they carry out their missions, the need, the pull that power has over Taylor will ultimately always win out in the end. That's why I don't think they can actually like win, even her, you know, the Taylor Carlin

initiative, which like, you know, I think the show is doing a little snide commentary about a certain like sort of moral and dignity when it comes to climate people and like they're doing their little digs about those kinds of people who really care about the plan. I think we're seeing this as a country right now, right? It's all it's not about the greater good. It's about the greatest amount of wealth. And I think that this show does a really great job of that, right? Like you can have your carbon division, but right now, bro, that's why shit goes so slow. We should have been green 10, 15 years ago, but it wasn't profitable enough, right? And I think that's, that's what we're seeing.

And I think one thing I wish for Taylor is that they just learn a bit more about how to do this. They don't have to have everything so fast. And I think that's something that younger people, especially now, millennials are starting to get a lot more chances a lot faster than their predecessors. And that has, you know, that you really get the clashing when you see that. And I think that the best thing that Taylor can do right now is learn from all of this and make sure that their hands are clean from it. I think that they are so hung up.

being the best right now, just like the rest of the show. And their own way, they're trying to be the best and it's just not working out. I just wish Taylor just sat on the sidelines and let everybody else fuck up and then pick up all the pieces, right? I don't know if that's going to happen. They can't because they're too good at it.

Like, Taylor is such a master at what it is. They are asked to do on a daily basis. Like, Axe recognizes it. Wendy recognizes it. What I do think, though, is they're always trying to get a hold of the greater good. And I think that that's hard to do in the society that we're currently in because in a capitalism, we don't give a fuck about your morals. We don't care about that. There's no way of doing that.

How can you monetize this, right? Do you earn? And so I think Taylor is going to have to figure out if they're okay with taking a hit financially. And the biggest, they can be cool with taking a hit financially, just live in a normal, great life. but it's hard because they employ so many people, right? They employ the McPhase. They're trying to get themselves off the ground. It's just not that's, and I think the show does a great job of showing like the conflicts with morality.

It just, it doesn't, you can't be 100% morally honest. It just doesn't work in the society. The show does a good job of positioning Taylor's sort of empathy, instincts a little subtly, right? When Wendy's basically like, yo, I'm going to get Axe to give me the $25 million that I need so I could give Chuck this bread so that he doesn't go rummaging through our books. Taylor's like, I don't want Axe owning that much of my independent shit. Right? But she sees, she trusts Wendy, excuse me, they trust Wendy enough that, oh, snap, Wendy's now. personally involved with acts.

So I'm going to now give Wendy and Axe the benefit of the doubt. If they wanted to be ruthless about all of that, it would be like, Axe, no shot am I signing off? But even that, but see, even that is a sign of business, right? Because they are trying to figure out both sides. The morality, they love Wendy. They love Wendy, right? They have that relationship.

But also, hey, check this out. I ask, fuck you. You know what I mean? Fuck you. But I don't. I think, honestly, if I have to make a prediction and we're going to make the predictions later, I think that ultimately Taylor goes the moral route. I just think that that's what it is.

I don't know if that, but I do want to go along real quick. Another theme of this, right, is quarantine. It's COVID in this, right? And how this show, I think the biggest question was how this show is going to include COVID into the script. And this was, like you said, you referenced earlier, how, you know, I think they did seven episodes before the pandemic and they did the rest post-pandemic. And I think that they did the best job that they could.

Now, was it perfect? Nah, not. They didn't do a perfect job of seamlessly doing it because, like, one episode, they are in coronavirus and then the next episode, I don't know if they switched up, but all of a sudden they have the vaccine like a week later. And they only got the vaccine enough for the main characters. dollar bill and all these people. And then you have Axe, the actor who plays

Axe, he actually did most of his scene. Damian Lewis did most of his scenes in Europe because his wife passed. And so he had to do that. And they integrated him well with the video calls and things like that. They did a really good job. Were you impressed by how they have doing?

This is one of the first big shows that has actually took on coronavirus. Yeah, 100%. And the thing is, it's true to life. ultra wealthy people's experience of the pandemic does not mirror our own, right? So the idea that they were projecting image that these people have basically been mostly unaffected by a pandemic that's killed tens of millions of people globally. That seems like that speaks like it's true to life to me and for me.

So I thought they did a great job with that. Like I think about, you know, I remember Kim Kardashian flew her whole family to a secluded island in Tahiti for her birthday. And it was just like, well, I mean, that's what they do. That's what I mean? That's what they do. So I thought they did a good job of integrating it while not making it, while not letting COVID sort of become the main thrust of the show.

Because I think the show, that would have been a disservice to the show. And also, when you already did seven episodes to take this hard, sharp left turn to address COVID would have been kind of ridiculous, too. I think what they did a great job of is like obviously we're living in COVID, right? But you see it subtly. It's not all the way in your face, right? Just like in regular life. Like obviously COVID is a thing.

But when you're in the confines of your own home and things like that, you don't have your mask on every single day. But also when you're in the office, you know, they have people walking around with masks on, right? They don't, they made it very, very subtle in a way that that has been pretty good. But the biggest thing, though, is love. I think that's one of the biggest undertones of this season. Love between characters, right? We know what we want to get to. But let's get to one first.

Wag's in his little boo thing. Oh, my goodness. Wag's got him a little boot thing. A PYT. I don't know if it's serious, but here's the, I know it's serious, but here's the thing. I think this is the, I want to get your thoughts on this, but he got him a little young thing. He's out here getting dates with at the office, you know what I mean?

And he's really trying to embrace it. I think this is the woman before the one. I don't think this is the one. I think this is the one before the one. What do you think? What's going on? It's so crazy because it just shows you to sort of imbalance between the sexes, right? Wags could basically spend his whole life being an absentee dad and being a scrub at it

and barely knowing or understanding any of his kids. then decide midlife, whatever, I'm a millionaire, I can find a young mate and I can procreate again and do this all over again. I thought to myself, I was like, man, like a woman couldn't really have that, you know, fifth chance at motherhood in that same way, right? Like, it would be a lot harder to execute watching the show that, like, that struck me that Wags could just be a complete fuck up when it comes to parenthood. And there'd be absolutely no consequences to, it. He's rich enough and powerful enough that he could just... Male privilege to me. Yeah, man. It's crazy. He could just find a new woman and procreate

with her, but he seems determined to put a baby in this woman, and I'm not mad at him for it. I think one of the things, though, and the young, old between male and women, like, men getting younger relationships has always fascinated me. That's a podcast for another day. But it started off as feeling like revenge, right? Because he's fucking dude with the, he's trying, it seemed like when he went to go meet the girl's father, excuse me with names, I should have put this name down. But if you, she went to go beat his boo-boos father. It winds up being the guy that first off embarrassed him at the party when Wags was about

to be the bell of the ball got all dressed up in his little dress and his heels and stuff. And they just roasted him and they, they fucking laughed him out of the building, right? And then he gets his all out of revenge because Wag's got the plot of land. Now the burial plot of land. And then now they go back around. And it seems like a revenge play. You get the dude winds up being the girl's father to do that he gets that he wants revenge off of. Not only does he get revenge of screwing the dude's daughter, but then he finds love at the end because the daughter is like, yo, I love you.

Let's go, Waggie. You feel me? Let's go, boo. We're about to make it happen. Great writing by the billions of writers. That was great. We're not going to pretend that her character has been as fleshed out as, say, a Wendy or a Taylor or... And it doesn't have to be right now.

And it doesn't have to be, but it's not hard for me to understand why somebody might fall in love with that woman. You know, it seems rather obvious. You think that she fine? Is that what you're saying? I see it all the time. I mean, well, all of them is fine, no. She scratches all of, you know, wags as urges, you feel me? Shout out to her.

You know what I mean? She's out here doing what she got to do. But yeah, it is cool to see him, you know, sort of find a love interest and just exploring that. Because I think the show's been really cool about exploring, like, the deeper, deeper interior lives of the characters who aren't Wendy, Taylor, Axe, and Chuck, right? Like, they've done a decent job of exploring these ancillary people and sort of flushing their storylines out a little bit. So I had fun with Wags' midlife crisis about being a horrible dad. I don't know, man. I think he might marry her, though.

It feels like it. It sure felt like it when the episode. But I told you, though, this seems like the forced boo-boo. Not to say he don't love her, but it does seem like the first one right before you, like, you got to learn some lessons first before you get to the one. He's finally in the right mindset for it. And so it probably not going to work with her. But the mindset is finally there.

And so he can make it work with somebody else. All right. Now, let's get to the shits, man. Let's get to the shits. We already know. We were talking about love. Like, we already know what this is, right? Wendy and Axe.

Oh, man. We've been, listen, we've been knowing this since she stepped in the pool with him butt naked. I forgot the season, but we've known that this was going to happen. To show that she wasn't wearing a wire. Oh, she showed that she wasn't wearing a wire. That's how she had to show she wasn't wearing a wire. Listen, we knew it was popping right when that happened, right?

We knew that was what was going to happen. But they did a great job because they did. didn't give us what we wanted. We wanted this for like three or four seasons now. We've wanted this. We've known that this was going to happen. And it just gave us a little titibate. Because remember, when she stepped in that pool of butt naked with Axe,

she was a married woman and still did it. You know what I mean? So we've had this slow burn. Chuck Rhodes, like, has, let's be real, has literally pushed her into Axe's arms with his actions. Literally has just like, here, take my wife. You can have her. has just done that.

She had the relationship with the painter and Axe was out here, Dirty Macon, and she fell for it. That was crazy. What were your immediate thoughts during the FaceTime call? What were you thinking? Were you in awe?

Were you like in your soap opera bag where you were like, you had your tissue with you? Or were you like, were you cheering? What was Waz like when he was watching the scene? So obviously, like you said, they set it up the whole season, right? Where he's doing this ridiculous stuff

that's blatant, obvious jealousy obviously dirty Macian calling her into a meeting when she pulls up to the dude's apartment with granted tax was paying for it but you know it was just like geez dog like relax a little bit so we knew we were building up towards it but you thought like man maybe they're gonna still

slow play it slow play it what I did what I enjoyed most about it though Logan was that Wendy didn't even try to front she wasn't even like oh I don't know this is and that she said I mean she got but naked with him while she was married. So I don't think she had to front.

See, just immediately, she didn't say, oh, I need to sleep on anything to think about it. She's like, wow, I can't believe you just said that. Well, you know what it is, though? Like, it's not even, here's the thing, man, this is what it comes down to. Chuck never came through when he was supposed to and acts always, not even a question.

Even when she was hesitant to ask him for a favor, Axe always held her down. And that's why she got into his arms. It's not really a surprise with this, man. If you don't hold your chick down, if you don't hold your person down, somebody else, please believe somebody else will. And that is a non-binary fact. No matter who your person is, if you don't take care of them,

somebody else will, please believe that. And now Axe is taking care of Chuck's girl to the point where it's going to be Axis chick. Where is this going? That's tough. That's tough because, man, the craziness, too. And, you know, the elephant in the room from the beginning of the show. And I think the show has done a good job, basically alluding to everybody understands the fact that Chuck and Wendy are not a physical match. Like, the idea that a woman that successful and that physically attractive would be...

You don't think, bro, but you got to understand notes. You don't know the backstory. Chuck might have... No, no, listen, Chuck got away with words. I can see how he can bag, Wendy. He's got bars. When he's in his bag, he could get a Wendy Rhodes. That's why...

He got a bag. He could get her, could he keep her, though? You didn't say what I'm saying? No, no, no, I believe that he could have kept her under the right circumstances. Literally, if he would have just said, I don't give a fuck anymore, like, I don't care, dog, I don't care. If he just put his... Check this, he'd go at the door, he could have lived a fantastic life. He could have got his ass whipped in the bedroom like he loves it, right?

He could have still been getting whipped. He could have still been going, getting these wild threesomes popping. He would have been rolling. He would have been fine if he would have just checked his ego at the door. I do think Chuck could have kept this of marriage. They have two kids together. Yes, they could have got the marriage going. Yeah, I believe that Wendy was definitely, you know,

seduced by Chuck's intellect, his charm, his wit. I don't discount that. But when you add in all of the other demerits where it's like, all right, this dude is kind of an ego maniacal person. He is kind of singularly driven by one thing more so than even our own marriage and our family. Right. Like, and, you know, like, let's face it, like Wendy's now, she's super rich. Like, I don't need no, I don't need nothing from you, Chuck. Like, I need nothing from you.

I'm still out here looking like a ting. So it's not like I can't go back into the day. Let's give an appreciation for how much of a ting Wendy is. Oh, man. She's incredible. She's an incredible woman dog. Shout out Wendy Rhodes. Incredible.

Okay. Now, here's the question, wise. Because she's basically going from the same person to the exact same person with more money, right? And more access. Does she get hurt in all this? I think she gets hurt in all this, man. I think eventually Axe is going to hurt her too. She needs to...

Yeah. I think that she's going to... I think she's going to eventually, like, get her heart broke no matter what. You know, it's interesting. I don't even... I don't know that I've considered whose heart would be broken,

but... And they touched on it... I think Wags touched on it a little bit when he basically told Wendy, like, yo, you acting like a chick whose nose is open. Like, you sprung or something. Like, what's going on?

He's like, oh, you are. All right, well, it's going to mean X, X, Y, and Z. I can't wait to see how the show handles their relationship under this dynamic. Also, they're going to be two coworkers in a relationship. That's going to be sick. That's going to be sick. It's not going to work.

I don't know what that's going to work out either. I mean, shout to all the people that are out here getting in relationships with their coworkers out there. You know, shout out to that. But I don't think that's going to work in this, right? It's out there. It's out there. I've seen it.

I've seen it in many a workplace. I can proudly say that, and this is a shade that I've never done. I always thought that, you know, like, when you do have a significant other, like you want to be able to have certain sanctuaries, right? Like, if you at your job and you're in a beef with your significant other, they can't just come up to you, walk up to your desk and just start riffing, like, whoa. You know what I mean?

But, like, once you work with somebody, there's no, there's no break from this. Like, y'all constantly in it. So I'm interested to see how the dynamic changes because when she was just, you know, basically his peer at the job, she felt emboldened to tell him basically everything that's on her mind. Undressed this dude. Tell him about himself.

But now that's what she's like. What's kind of turned him on. What's kind of rocked? What's he like? But now that... You know, how are you going to manage that now? Sorry, like, how are you going to manage that? I don't know.

See, I think with them, though, I think there might be a lesson learned to where, yo, man, as long as you know you could do it, that could be enough. As long as you know y'all could go there, that could be enough, right? I don't know, I don't think that they should do this.

I don't think that it's smart. I do not think that it's a very bad idea. To that idea. All right, predictions right now, what happens to them in the long term? Wait, wait, you know what? Hold on. Hold on. Let me just, let me just get this right. Let me just get this right. You don't even got to edit this out, Lonnie Mac. We're rolling.

We're talking about predictions here. I'm just going to set it all the way up. We're talking predictions for the season finale and beyond right now. Season finale, do Axe and Wendy just take it on full throttle? Was there the passionate scene we've always been wanted? That's the first question of predictions in season and the season finale right now. I think there's going to be a realization that he's going to get pinched and it's going to be this comfort, love, comfort. He's going to finally come back to New York.

He's finally going to come back. She's going to be his Winnie Mandela, basically, right? And my prediction is definitely that he gets pinched. It probably does like two and a half, three months, something like that. But he's going to get pinched. So in this episode, they go all the way. They have their love scene that we've been just waiting for them to have.

They're going to try to fight it. They're going to try to beat it. They're going to do the whole billions thing. No, I don't think they're going to try to fight it. Oh, the billions, writers are going to try to fight. Yeah, yeah. They're going to try to, they're going to make it. They're going to have an episode centered around them trying to get out.

out of this jail thing somehow, even though they're dead to rights, right? Then Wendy and Axe are going to realize that he's going to the pokey and it's going to be comfort or whatever and then they're going to make love. So that's what I do think is going to happen with that portion of the story. Okay, okay. All right, all right. I think he's going to slice in the episode. You don't think so?

No, I think he's going to smash it. I think they're going to make passionate love. I think there's a lot of tension that's happening. He bought her a whip. He bought her a car. He gave her $25 million. And the part, mean, it was like, man. It's not even the money.

It's not even the objects. It's the fact that he always held her down, right? And she's going to, that's her thanking him for doing that, right? Like, that's, you know, for being down and being good, I think that they're going to do it. Now, beyond, I don't know if that's going to work out. I do not think that's what's going to happen. Now, another prediction that I have, this is something that we haven't talked about that I skipped over and we're going back to it.

Is Kate's undercutting of Chuck going to backfire on her? I don't think. Let's give context to this. Let's give context to this. So she fucking sent her dad to jail for her political ambitions and also without Chuck's knowledge. Is that going to backfire? I know Chuck was cool at the end like, okay, you're my little whimper snapper.

Okay. All right, I taught you well. I taught you well. What do you think? I think Chuck has got, he got what he, wanted. Axes, he's going to be arrested. Chuck's going to have the ability to put the

cuffs on him. He's going to get to bus his nut finally. So I don't think... Oh my God. Oh my God. I don't think he's going to take it out. Wait, wait. Put that in context. What? He's going to make sure that he gets his...

That he... He finally got his rocks off because this this, this, this, this this ax thing has been what's been driving. No, he's fine. Okay. Hey, let's just make this clear.

He's going to make sure that he gets, he's going to make sure that getting this rocks off means that he's going to finally capture Axis, what you're saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's going to finally put the cuss. No, no, no. No, Kate, you're wilder right now. All of that was insert. That didn't derail the ultimate goal, the main thing, which has always been to get ax, put

them away, be the one that goes, yeah, I did it to you, X. So I don't think that's been derailed. This is too obvious of a strategic move for it to work, I think. It's too obvious of a strategic move. I think that what's going to happen I think she's just going to get undercut. You don't think that? You don't think that there's a little undercut

that she's not going to get burned on this? There'll be room for that next season as far as they're going to reposition everybody and the chest pieces are going to move and then there's going to be room for Chuck the snaker. Don't worry. I just don't think it's going to happen. Here's a thing, though.

It's funny, you said, I don't think that it's going to be Chuck that snakes her. I think is what is going to happen is just by just all the moving parts, she's going to be left out of this, right? Because she overstepped in a way that she shouldn't have. Maybe that can be perceived that she shouldn't have done it.

And also, Kate is one of my favorite characters because she will do anything for her political ambitions. This has nothing to do with Chuck. This has nothing to do with acts. This has everything to do with her political ambitions. She does not want the, she doesn't want this stench of weed. The weed to fuck up her political ambitions. Does she think weed is probably going to eventually pass?

Probably. She's not. She just doesn't want it to be associated with her future campaign and bite her in the ass. She just doesn't want that right now. Yeah, 100%. And Kate throughout this season has been one of the few rational actors, right? Like every single thing that she does has a, like this, it's meaningful in pursuit of the goal that she stated. So she spent the whole year being a very, very calculated, rational actor.

she's probably the only one in the whole season. She's been the smoothest, the slickest just operator in the whole show this year for sure, especially when you consider like our normal, you know, killers and smooth operators like Wendy is going ahead and fall in love with a boss, right? Like, you know, like it's been dope to watch Kate move and groove this year. Yeah, but what I think I like about Kate is that it doesn't matter how much if she's a, she's the only one that has been a snake. to Chuck and Chuck was like, you got me, bro. Respect. You got me. Come back on my team. It's all good.

Like she was sitting there as he was walking out of his job. She was sitting there. I'll fuck with Kate. I'll fuck with Kate. Me too. Do Chuck and Axe finally find fulfillment? Real philosophical one. No.

They can't because the show won't even keep going on. They can't. They have to keep going on. But the kinds of people that they are, like that's the point. They're never satiated. they always have to be chasing something. They, like, they're just not wired to be satisfied to, you know, get a big win and just kick it on the couch and go vacation for a few weeks. And X, Y, Z, like, it feels like those two specifically, like they can't.

They just want to gobble up, acquire, and take everything, the money, the, well, especially the power. Does, in the final episode, does Prince, does Prince win the season, right? because he was the one that came on the Vanity Fair episode at the beginning he was always a foil for Axe and we're still in the same season, Bob. He had the fucking weak-ass powwow at his, at his, at his, at his, at his, at his, um, the little resort at his house. He had the weak-ass thing where he tried to mask.

Oh, this is so great. You know, we could all just get ideas. No. Right. Do we feel that he's going to win at least this season? And finally be like a true foil to Axe to where he gets the upper hand going in season six? I don't know.

It feels like to me there's been too many smug smiles and too much, like, ridiculous, white guilt, too much projection. I just find it hard to believe that he's actually going to be rewarded for this bullshit good guy stick that he's on. I don't buy any of this Michael Smith. I think he is a good guy. I think he is a good guy. You think so?

I think he's a good guy, but he's just not in a place for good guy. So he does have to be an asshole and has to be all these things. But he doesn't like it about himself, whereas Axe and Chuck have looked themselves in the mirror and says, I'm a sick fuck. I don't think Prince has done that yet. I don't think Prince has had the sick fuck conversation with himself in the mirror. So the reason why I say this is because I'm of the belief that the show has a very clear opinion of the rich and the powerful and that they're horrible people. right? Well, you have to inherently be horrible

to get to that state. You can be a nice person. Right. To thrive, to succeed in the spaces that these people exist. You can't be good in everybody's eyes, I think. Sure. Because everybody has their motivation. And I don't know if I, yeah, yeah.

You know, to your niece, who you always get nice stuff for Christmas, you're great. But don't bring her into the business. No, no. Because then you'll be en masse. So I just think knowing the show's own, basically, politics and ideology around the uber rich and the uper famous. That's why I don't think that character is going to be rewarded with his fake-ass piety.

So I look forward to seeing him get his come up in, honestly. Is Taylor going to get caught up in the rapture? Or are they going to get their own business out of this? I think Taylor's the only person who, as the season progressed, they started seeing the chess pieces more clearly. Yeah. Because they were so naive to start this season. so naive to the way this works.

I think Taylor is the only one. They are the only one who started like, okay, I see how this person works. I see how this person works. Okay, I see how it's all connected now. Taylor is finally, finally seeing it clearly. They are going to end off this season fine, I think. Okay, okay.

Last one, if you had to guess, I've alluded to this. I think that Prince is going to win the season. Who do you think wins this season? Momentarily, he's thinking. Momentarily is going to be Chuck. Momentarily. He's going to have his money. I like that.

I like that. But he's going to win and he's going to lose because. That's always how it works. Yes, he's going to put the cuffs on axe. And then he's also going to find out that Axe is actually now having sex with his wife. And so it's going to be. No one wins. No one wins.

All right. So, all right, this is the last question. I think you already answered it before we get out of here. Does Axe get out of the torture chamber? Axe is getting locked. He's going to get the, you know, the slap on the wrist billionaire locked. He's not going to do three years. Anything stupid like that.

It's going to be like, you know, country club prison for like two months, community service, pay back a bunch of money. And yeah, he's going to go to the country club, joint though. He's going to get that vaccine first though. That was an addition of the prestige TV podcast. We're going to be back next week. Me and Waz

to talk billion season finale. Deserve.