The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Billions’ Season 5 Finale

Episode Date: October 5, 2021

 Logan Murdock and Wosny Lambre recap the season finale of 'Billions,' “No Direction Home.” The two take a look back at Season 5, discuss the show’s relationship with wealth, and make some predictions for Season 6.  Hosts: Logan Murdock, Wosny Lambre Associate Producer: Lani Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Order now at order. Sweetgreen.com. Robin, welcome to the Prestige TV podcast. I am Logan Murdoch and I am here with Woz, so you know what that means. We've been to talk billions. We've been to talk not only billions wise, but the billions season finale. Like we talked last week about how, you know, the setup and how that really sets up for the season finale. And that might be like the best episode, the best episode before the season finale. That's all cap. It's all cap. Everything I said that was wrong. The season finale is the vibe. We are talking.

about Axe Bank being no more. Axe Bank as a staff record label on the motherfucking crew is gone. It's over. It's done. It's, when I say that, what comes to mind,

what, what are you thinking about when I say Axe is, is off the face of the proverbial earth right now? What comes to mind is that I should have called Corey Stoll's agent and realized that he had a two-season deal and not a one season deal,

which, you know, after the episode, they gave us a dope preview of what's to come for season 6, which, from what I understand, they filmed in tandem with this and are still shooting. They're still in production right now for the next season that's dropping in January. But yeah, it's kind of crazy that that's basically what the consequence of this season was in order for acts to stay out of prison. And, you know, I know it's tough. He got exiled. He no longer has his company.

But he got $2 billion as a, like, a cushion. I think he can live comfortably with $2 billion in Switzerland. But yeah, that was the consequence of this season, is that Axe lost his company, lost basically his entire fortune. Now, we're going to get to the predictions at the end of the show with Axebank. And it's really, it was really great to see the last 26 minutes of this episode. Brian Kauffelman really just used the time of going into back in time to their advantage. You know, you see in the beginning of the episode where Chuck Rhodes is like,

is he up in his office? And Dollar Bill's like, as his office. And like, you think that he's talking about, about, you think that he's talking about acts and he's not. He's not even talking about that. And what did, I really liked how they used that. Did you feel like that was effective at all? And trying to lay that out. Do you think that was appropriate?

Because that is a billion staple. And honestly, it felt like they were doing half the episode in the beginning. And then the rest was just, oh, what's the end? It's just full go. What did you think of how they, they structured this episode? So, you know, as I'm watching. it, I'm not going to lie, I was pretty annoyed. I was like, I was like, I just was having trouble keeping like, all right, what does

eight hours mean, 40, like, I was having trouble centering myself in the thing. But obviously when they show you what it was in service of, I was like, all right, this is more satisfying than it felt as it was happening, right? Like the payoff at the end when you realize he was talking about Mike Prince and not acts in the beginning. That was cool. but I'm not going to lie during the episode. I was like, all right, so when is this happening?

Are you generally like that when you want to billions? Do you not like to push the throwback parts of the scenes? Or are you a guy that it's fine? I like time jumps. Like, I like when, you know, they're showing you Bobby, something from Bobby or Axis past, right? That informs the type of people that they are today for sure. But it's just like as an episode device

and being like, all right, here's what's happening right now. And here's what preceded it. And sort of that, you know, back and forth type of thing. It was a little hard for me as I was watching it happen. But it wasn't hard to follow along as they were basically walking you through exactly how everything played out the way it did. Okay. Now, let's get to the shits, man.

Last episode, we talked about Axe and Wendy and love. What they were going to do, we made predictions on that. I don't know, man, I kind of am okay with the outcome, right? Where they say they do a very toxic, yo, we really like each other, but not right now because it's going to go too far. It was a real mature, toxic energy from both of them, and I wasn't ready for that, but I'm okay with it. I really am okay with it before Axe leaves her for the last time.

Were you good with that? He did the whole, come with me, come with me. She's like, no, no, no, boo. You know, I got to stay back and stuff. I got to like, do you feel me? And then he was like, and then he gets in, and she falls for him about to kiss him for the last time, and he gets the, no, boo, you feel me?

We can't even just do that right. now it's not even the right time. You know, we've got to make sure it's right time. That was kind of some mature shit to do. Were you ready for that level of maturity and toxic energy? You phrased it perfectly, mature and toxic. Because it was toxic. We could agree that it was toxic, right?

We talked about it on the episode before. Like, dude, like dating your coworker, like your coworker who's also kind of your shrink, that's just, that's a bad thing to be doing, right? So we're like, all. It's not going to end well. Exactly. That's bad. And then, you know, for them to do the mature thing, which is just like, look, if we're going to be, you know, thousands of miles apart, there's no reason for us to go down this road of deep intimacy and all of that type of stuff.

Again, that's a reversal from even going down that path in the first place. You thought they were going to like, you thought they were going to smash. They gave us the deep fake out, man. When they came. They were literally this close to kissing each other. They always do that, bro. Brian Kaufman, sir. Hey, Brian Coffman, check this out.

Check this out. I know you're a friend of the ringer and all that stuff. You need to stop pumpbacking so much, man. We was ready. We was outside. We was ready. We was team acts. We were ready to go.

I got a question for you, Wiles. Is that something that you would do if you were doing that? Is that the right call? Because I think if I was in that position, I might have, I might not have wanted to make that call in the relationship, but I think that's the most, the best way to do it. How did you think? Would you have gone that route too with Wendy if Wendy was on?

And Wendy's looking you in the eye and giving you the look. What are you doing in this moment? I like to think that I would be strong enough and mature enough to be like, hold on, let's do the right thing here. But when I think about my relationships in the past, I have a hard time believing that I would actually follow through with that. But what I, you know, what I did want to say, too, about that entire exchange, even though we had that seen with Axis' kids with his son very early on in the season. Their families are not even brought up.

It's almost like their kids don't exist. There's so many shitty parents. We're going to talk about that in a look back. But yes, you're right. There are a lot of shitty parents in this show. And look, the Malin Ackerman woman who played Axe's wife very early on in the series, like she's obviously gone. Laura's not out here no more.

I'm not going to say I miss her much. I just don't think that they put as much into that character as they've done like so excellently with people like Taylor and Chuck and Wendy and Axe and all of that. But like, again, she's gone. The kids are out of sight, out of mind. It's just like, yeah, I'm, you know, I'm just going to move away. That's it. Bye, guys. Yeah.

That's it. I was going to ask you about that because that's another thing with that. Yo, Axe is so ready to leave his kids at any point in time. Ever since he was, he was a family man for like a year and a half. until they were talking. Remember, he was trying to book a whole summer trips to like South of France and stuff like that. And now he's, he don't even look at his kid. I only seen his kid one time on this show.

Yeah, he's embraced Bachelor life to a ridiculous extent. Everything, because when you, you know, when you live alone, you're single, pretty much everything in your life revolves around yourself. Unless you have kids. But Axis is like, no, I'm as an actual bachelor. have no other entanglements responsibilities but to myself. He's a rich deadbeat. He might be one of the richest deadbees of all time. I mean, but so what about how does this, what does this do for when?

I guess we'll keep that to the end. Let's go to look back for season five because one of the biggest things I want to ask you about in terms of this whole season is what does this teach you about wanting something so bad? In this season, I don't think anyone wins. you could make the argument no one wins because Mike wants Axe's spot. He gets Axe's spot. Chuck wants Axe gone, gets Axe gone. Axe, I don't know what Axe wants. I really don't know. I think Axe wants to stay out of jail, right? So he does. He gets what he wants. But I don't think anyone wins at the end of the day.

I don't think that Chuck wins because, I mean, what is he doesn't even have, he doesn't even have a trophy, which is what, which is what Axe told, said that he doesn't even have a carrot out. there to go after. What do we think? What does this teach us about wanting something too much? I think what the season shows us is that the victories, even for these people, it's always fleeting. Even if Chuck would have managed to get Axe. It's not like you'd have been like, all right, I'm retired. You know, it'd be on to the next thing that's driving them crazy to the next fight, right? It's not like if Axe and his bank, his banking venture became successful that, he'd be like, all right, I conquered bank. I'm done. I'm no longer, he'll be on to the next thing that he wants to do.

And the same thing for Mike Prince. It's like nothing is ever enough. These people are insatiable, right? So, no, they're never going to actually win. And I think even with Chuck, even though he lost, right, in the sense that he doesn't get to lock ax up. He doesn't get to do the perp walk. He doesn't get to put the cuffs on him. He doesn't get his wife back.

He doesn't, he damn sure don't get his wife back. All of these things that we felt like was. driving him, at least now he's gained a new enemy, a new fight that we know is going to fuel him to the, you know, umpteenth degree. I think, okay, so this is what I think. I think that everyone lost in this, but I think Chuck just has the highest draft pick, right? He has the highest ceiling going into the next season. I think that's what you're saying, right?

Is that what you're saying? Yeah, because he actually has a vision and like a, all right, this is a scalp I need to collect next year. I'm going to get this freaking guy. And another lesson I think too, Logan, is like even when these guys lose, do they really lose? Like, losing with $2 billion in Europe. No, no. It's like, oh, so terrible.

This is my 90s R&B singer theory, right? This is my Joe, my name is Joe Theory right here that deals with oligarchs. I think what Mike Prince was doing was he was in his Joe, mag daddy i'm gonna take your chick bag right with with axe cap he was doing all that stuff and then once he once joe gets gets your chick once he gets our chick waz he freaking he he he doesn't know what to do with it he can't he all he knows is the chase oh yes that's all he knows the chase and now now pinch uh prince just got his chick he just got ax's chick literally like he literally has axe's chick right now what is he going to do with this whole

new entity. Well, how does this work? I don't think, I don't know how this works. Do you think that what's, what's, does that, does he going to get fulfillment out of that? And that's why I don't think that one, any win in here is an actual win. There's no win.

Dude, I, I do got to give it up to Brian Copelman and his partner and the whole writing staff for managing to write one of the most hateable characters that I've come across in a long time. Like, his fucking...

Who's that? Who's that? Who's the hater? Mike Prince, man. You hate... Yeah, yeah. His fucking just self-satisfied smirk and he's like all pompous and like... He's like the LL Cool J of oligarchs.

It's ridiculous. He sits in the chair and he's so satisfied with himself and I'm just like, what a punchable face that dude has, right? He definitely comes out. There's no other way to put it. He is the most victorious. of the season. We're going to get that in the second.

We're going to get that to second. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He got to look axe in his eye and ax admit defeat. Complete and total defeat. I bodied you, bro. Chuck, I used you, played you like a fiddle. You look like an idiot right now. This egg all over your face smashed you.

And then he walks into Axe cap and he's like, you know, he puts his fucking proverbial dick on the table. And it's just like, I am the fucking. master, I am the king, you guys all bowed down to me and pledge your filthy. He, yeah, but, oh, God, he looks so just graceless in the process. You encapsulated the whole bit about Mike Prince perfectly. Because the thing that's missing here is he's a nice dude. He is a nice dude.

And there's a lot to be said for very genuinely nice people. There's also a thing for being too nice that you're fucking annoying, that I kind of want you to be an asshole. Just stop being so nice to me. That doesn't make me feel good or bad. But it's funny how that evolved because it seems like when you think about Mike Prince, he was using that over nice thing to cover the fact that he's actually like everybody else. And there's a lot to be said for that. How do you feel that's going to transition to my next question that I want to ask you?

What does this show kind of teach us about our relationship with wealth, right? Because I'm sure at the crux of it, like I said, Mike Prince is a nice dude. dude from Indiana, but he has to get his competitive edge out. And that, I'm sure he wants to do these initiatives where, you know, the environment, cannabis, all these different things, but the money turns into something else. What does that say, like I said, about our relationship with money because where you get a lot of it and you literally turn into a different being, do you actually get the win that you were hoping for?

You know, when you, like the question you're asking, and I, you know, I don't want to betray any confidences as far as snitching on myself and my own personal beliefs when it comes to these people. But I think the show actually shares my personal beliefs about our overseers and overlords in the oligarchy here in America. Like they do all of this, this fake-ass altruistic shit about charity work and this and that initiative. While realistically all they do is hoard all our resources, right?

And so just because you give a nice smile, a nice toothy smile as you're fucking sticking the knife in my freaking back doesn't make it any less injurious, right? Like, I'm still going to die from it, even though you presented a nice frontward facing, you know, appeal to it. So that's why I think, Mike, that's to me what makes Mike Prince the most loathsome of all of our, you know, terrible business people in the show is that he's faking the funk when it comes to, oh, I'm sorry. nice, I'm so this, I'm so that, and I do exactly the same shit that everybody else does, if not worse. It's funny. I'm probably going to give a more empathy to Mike Prince in this way, more of just because I think that we had the, and if you think about the 2010s, you know, I'm from the

base, so I kind of saw Silicon Valley happen as it happened, how it just came out of nowhere, not nowhere, but, you know, how it just came up and just as big as it has been. And there was this belief in the 2010s that, oh, you know, we have these new, you know, venture capitalists from this new era. They're of the people. They're actually coming from these, you know, liberal places and things like that. It's going to be a new dawn and a new age of billionaires, right? And I think as you see, and I think, you know, some of that is true, right? Did they come from liberal areas?

Probably. You know, they did. They were in the Bay areas. They were coming up. But you start to see that capitalism is capitalism. no matter what side of the aisle you're on. And I think as you're seeing that, I think a lot of people got disappointed by these people that they thought were going to be these big thought changers and just redefine how the market is.

Now, they redefined how the market was, but they didn't redefine everything around it. And I think that's what, I think that Mike Prince is a great case study in that because I'm sure he did think those things. I do need to save the environment. I do need to do all these things. This is what I would do if I accumulated all this capital. But it's one thing to say that when you're broke. And it's another thing to try to do that when you're rich.

And I think that Mike Prince is a case standing. I think part of me empathizes with that other one from 2010, who was probably just making the business go. But I think this business and what this show shows is that this business makes a monster out of a lot of different people. You know, because do you see that in the show? I think to me that's the kind of the central thesis of the show, which is why I like it, is that the show is trying to explain to us as an audience

that it's not about the people, it's about the system. No matter who you plug into the system, whether they're black, they're white, their man, their woman, or other, their, you know, what their racial makeup is. Are they American? Are they Indian? Are they British?

Are they whatever? No matter what the person is that you put into the system, they're going to all behave the same, right? Like, you know, in my own life, I think about somebody like Jay-Z, who I'm a huge fan of, my favorite rapper of all time, basically my hero growing up. And as I get older, I become a little bit more disillusioned with Jay-Z's.

Just like-I'm just like, say something wise real quick. Just say something real quick. And I might like lose a lot of stripes on this. I think Jay-Z is the greatest rapper of all time. Hey, listen, man. But go ahead. Go ahead. I just wanted to put that on record.

I just wanted to put the record up. As I get older and I think about like the things that I used to think were appealing about Jay-Z was like, yo, he sold Rockaway for 200-Mill. Yo, he founded this. Yo, he did this. Yo, he's getting all this money. And then you realize it's like, it's not like the people who work at Rock Nation

have equity in the company. And, you know, Jay-Z's paying the highest salaries to his employees. No, he's just another fucking business owner. Right? Like, in everything that he does. On one hand, that's the American dream, right? And on the other hand,

you're gentrifying your own hood. One doesn't come without the other. 100%. And I'm just saying, like, Jay-Z is somebody who I looked up to who's literally from the mud. He's from Marcy Projects in Brooklyn. Not 2021 Marcy Projects, not 20201 Marcy Projects.

Well, yeah, not where, you know, young white TikTokers are like chicken noodle soup and in front of it. Well, like, it wasn't that. But like, for somebody who's from that background, it's like, look, you plug Jay-Z into the billionaire class. He's going to behave like a billionaire, right? Like, that's just what it is. That's Oprah, you name it. Every black billionaire out there. They don't behave any differently than their white predecessors.

They all do the same thing. And I think the central premise of the show is, like, look, it doesn't matter how these people want to be. Once they're dealing in this realm, they're going to behave one way because that's the only way to succeed. So are you, so that down with you being Jay's, like, are you a Jay Z fan? Like, by extension now, how does that adjust how you look at that, right? Because parts of that we obviously aspire to be, having money. having power in that way. But how do you do that when you see a guy like Axe who has redeemable qualities, right?

It come from the mud too. And then you see a guy like Prince and then you see a guy like Jay-Z. What's that confliction for you when you see those people? So for me, it's about, it's not on me to judge the person as harshly as I might want to. I think there's other people who might be like, look, if you're a billionaire just as a person, you're just a disgusting person, right? Like if you're an Exxon Mobil CEO and you've known about climate change and how fossil fuels afflict the climate since 1980, whatever, or even 70, whatever, and yet you continue to

not only lie to the public, make sure that you just putting out as much propaganda against it so that you can continue to make money. Some people might look at it and say, wow, that's a disgusting human being. Where I say, like, that's the job. If he didn't do it, it's not like it wouldn't happen. They get somebody else in there, fill his pockets up with money, and he'd be the one doing it. Right? So I look at, I look at people and I say, look, this is the system that we have. Like, this is how everybody is going to operate when they get into that realm. And so, no, I don't

cast judgment, but I will say this to answer your question just more directly. Like, I did used to be that person that would clap and be like, oh my God, the first black this, the first black this, when it comes to money. Right. But like now, you know, I listen to Jay Jopalan like, you all, still drinking Perrier's Juet. We still ain't get through to you yet, which is his way of saying, oh, you're drinking Perrier's wet instead of my $200 champagne, right? As if us enriching you personally actually affects the lives of black people in general. Well, it's the same mindset, right?

It's the same mindset that he had in Marcy and these people have in Marcy, but you have to, you know, when you see a guy like Axe or a guy like Prince or any one of these oligarchs, in real life war fiction. You know, they have these qualities that everyday Americans have. They absolutely do, but they have to do it in a very supersized way

just to get to it. I want to ask you this one question I'm going to lead to my next question. Do you think that morals, can you have morals and flourishing this business? No. It'd be in that at all. Like, can you have any morals whatsoever?

No. And a follow up to that, should you even feign like you do have morals? Do you even have morals? Do you even have to? you in this business? No, because everything is about the profit motive. So therefore, you are doing good at business if you are profitable. That's it. There's no and then and plus the good at business means you're profitable. That's it. There's no room for anything else when it comes to being good.

We've made the definition of good business, profitable business. So long as you're profiting and it's quote unquote legal, you're doing a great job. So no, morality, ain't no room for morality in that calculation. Since we're looking back on season five, I want to talk about Taylor and what they have gone through this entire season.

They started out being in the middle of, it's crazy how long this season now. It was and is, and probably the longest season of all time, honestly. But how Taylor had to start this, being in the middle of Chuck and Axis feud and was trying to be in a former for Chuck and then telling Axe and then aligning with Axe.

And then by the end of the season, they are now, have a new boss who bought them out in Mike Prince. Where did they go from here? I don't even know. And I can't even. Where did they go from here? And I think the biggest thing is Taylor brought up a big point of hate and how they taught us about hate.

Is success born from hate sustainable? Because we've seen this time and time again with LeBron James. I'm doing this story right now on Draymond. And they say that he has to be really good with tension. There's this only thing that you have to have something born of hatred. Do you believe that that's something that always leads to success and is it sustainable? I think it's hard to disagree with the results. just look at our own sort of real lives

and whether it be politics or the culture wars and all of that. Just look how enduring hate is. You know, in perpetuating stuff like racism and sexism and homophobia and all of that kind of stuff. Like hate is so enduring in our own lives. How do you argue with those results? Like I watch hate work. Like it works in moving people,

motivating people, people. It fucking works. It's hard to argue with those results, like as toxic as it is. It feels like oftentimes that hate is the most enduring of anything, you know, to get anything to last, any movement to last, any like sort of collective will to last. Usually, if it's bound by hate for something, it feels like those things are the most enduring. And to bring that to Taylor. But is it sustainable, though? It feels like it. I was. say that it is. It feels like it is. We've heard so many examples. You know, we both are around the NBA. We've seen so many examples of guys winning and not being fulfilled, right? And being

fueled by hate, whether, you know, it's LeBron James, people hating him or even Kevin Durant, people hating him. And he feels like he could get this symbol, which is wealth, championships, all these things. And it really not fulfilled them. So that's why I'm asking is sustainable. Maybe the accolades are. But what about to your personal being. We're getting really philosophical here, baby. For sure. I think you got to think about somebody like Michael Jordan,

where he's just like, look, even after I get four MVP's, whatever, I have to find something real or imagined because off the time it was fake. But that's hate, right? Right. He had to find something. And he

managed to find something always that drove him that was like, whether it's Krauss or naysayers or people. talking about his gambling. He's like, I'm going to prove those people wrong. That drove him six championships, goat status in the sport. Like, to me

that is the most sustainable. You want to know what I think, though? Because those slights, we latch onto those things as people so quickly, like any perceived slight, we're just like, fuck that, we're going to go after them, we're going to get them.

And I think some people feel like they want to tap into that all the time. You want to know what I think. I think that I think that Taylor in the long run, Taylor and Mike Prince's way is the way to go. Now, just for your full sanity. Now, if you go full acts, you lose everything. You never go full acts. Never go full acts.

So if you go full act, you lose a full chuck, you lose everything, right? But at least, at the very least, if you're making a charitable cause or you're doing other things to help fulfill you in mind, then at least you can enjoy the money, right? because none of our hands are clean in this, ever. You can't have money in this life with your hands clean. It doesn't work. So I think just for your mental, I think the best way to go is the Prince and Taylor route

and not going the axe route. I wouldn't disagree with that. I also think, you know, when Taylor was first introduced to us as a character, what drew us to them is that they felt like acts with a conscience. But at the same time, what Drew acts to them was that killer underneath. There were always these dual realities when it came to Taylor. What Taylor is saying in season five is that the killer has begun to eat away at the conscience

in a way that they tried to warn Ryan against. Like, look, like, there's only one way to do this, man. Ryan didn't listen, no. No, I think that's going to fuck up, Brian. Brian is just like, I want it. I want to be angry and hate-filled. And so I think that's one of the coolest things that the show has done with the Taylor character is this devil and the angel on their shoulder and which one will

they choose in any given moment. That central conflict is super cool. I think this season they've shown that while there is the conscientious side, Listen, they're a motherfucker as well, okay? And we should always keep that in mind while watching the show. Yeah. All right. The question to end this segment, who won this season?

I think you alluded to it. Did you say, who won the season to you? It's Mike Prince. He vanquished all of his enemies. He's acquired more wealth. You didn't think that he was going to do it, though? No. You didn't think he was going to do it.

Obviously, I was just like, you thought Axel's going to come back. You thought this guy's got to get his come up in. Come on. But I think he's going to get it next thing because he has to. Because he is so fucking loathsome and hateable. But this season, it's indisputable. He is the undisputed champion of that world. Like he got Axis' assets at a fucking discount.

Okay? He's like, and for the right to keep your ass out of jail, motherfucker. That's how I'm doing this shit. It's crazy. The extent to which that he just destroyed. destroyed everybody. So it's, it's hard to argue with him being a winner. Can you make the argument that Chuck Rhodes was the winner of this, of this season? Can I, let me, let me lay out my case. Let me lay on my case. Let me lay on my case.

So starts out the season where what is his goals to get acts about the paint for this season to get acts about the paint, exact revenge on Wendy for crossing him. exact revenge on Taylor for being a double agent and crossing him. He got all of, and got the love of his father out of all of this. And more importantly, he has a,

he has a trophy to go after next season. Can you make, can you make the argument that Chuck Rhodes won this season? Is that a compelling enough argument? That is very compelling. The only thing that I would say is, yes, Axe went away with his tail between his legs.

However, Chuck wasn't the one that actually did it, right? Like, he can't really, you know he can't really take the credit. No, but here's the thing, no. He played a big part in it, though. Prince wouldn't even be in a position to know if it wasn't for Chuck. 100%. I think for sane people like us, we would be like, look, if you wanted this guy to no longer operate as he does

and stop being able to do what he does and he's exiles from the country, from his family, from his life. That should be a victory, but we know Chuck is a psychopath. He wants to be the one actually cutting the guy's head off. And so that's the only thing I would say to push back. But yeah, Chuck, Chuck has gotten a lot done this season for sure.

And it's definitely the best we've seen Chuck, especially when we mentioned on the episode before that he was being more conscious about not being such a lot of, a big fucking asshole. Like, all right, I'll be an asshole, but that's the biggest asshole ever, which even for him is an improvement, you know? Okay, so who lost the season

in your eyes? I'm gonna go first. I'm gonna go first. I'm gonna go first. I think I have a co-answer. I think it's by and large, like the top is Taylor. They lost. They got their company bought from them. They have a new

boss. They snake their mentor. Like, why would you even do that. They are in a torture chamber right now. But I think it's Taylor and tied for that is one Wendy Rhodes. Right. Lost both her man's. As lonely.

I also don't know who's raising her kids because either one of the parents are in the house. Doesn't have a community or a family. Yeah. I'm going to go tie between Wendy and Taylor. Who lost the season to you? The thing about Taylor, though, is that they traded not the greatest boss in the world, although Ax is the one who brought them in and mentored them and nurtured their abilities and all of that stuff.

However, traded Axe for a way worse boss, right? Like, you were just, you were just all out on. I'm down on my prints. Yeah, yeah. I'm out of my prince. What's my prince of stock right now? It's very low, right? It's just at zero.

Is that at zero? Do we get, can we get some dollar shares? As far as personal appeal on billions. Yeah. Woof. I would, man,

he's below Chuck's dad for me. And I hate Chuck's dad. Like, he's just, he's a terrible person. Okay. All right. I would say it's Mike Prince,

then Chuck's dad. Chuck senior. So, and so, yeah, Taylor definitely, definitely they lost the most because of the circumstances of the company that they started,

that they wanted to basically make a change in the world, now being, you know, majority owned by Mike Prince and just your everyday work life is like, they're now working under someone who is obviously a tyrant. So we'll see what happens. All right. All right. There's no more acts,

which means we have more Mike Prince in the show. Good for the show or bad. Is that going to be good for the show or bad for the show? That's going to be great for the show. Because, again, all you can ask for, I don't think you can ask that you love every single character in a piece of fiction. But does every single character make you feel something? And undoubtedly, Mike Prince makes me feel ways, right? Like, I'm not indifferent about this guy.

Does he? I'm feeling different. Like, this guy, the passions is stirred by this dude and this character. So I think it's definitely a beautiful thing that brings such a great, worthy foil in the mix. And so, yeah, I think the show is made better by having somebody that can just be another big bad, you know, that everybody is now laser focused on.

Okay. Does Kate Sacker flip on Chuck? I'm going yes. I'm going yes, 100%. And it's not even going to be a thing where they hate each other afterwards. I think that she's going to flip on him, and that's going to be that.

Again, she's done it before. Like we said, in that world of power and politics, if you have ambitions, you're going to step on people along the way. That's just how it goes. And so if she has ambitions for herself and where she wants to ascend,

she's not going to wait on Chuck Rhodes' permission to do it. So, yeah, I think you're on the money with that. I have a sick prediction and I want you to tell me I'm still better. I just want you to put me my place if I'm wrong on this one. Do we think? This is what I think. I think that Chuck will turn to the money next episode. I mean next season.

Do you think he's going to follow like Kate as a package deal, her and Chuck, just going to the money? And they're just like, fuck this shit. I'm tired of this. Why am I even fighting the rich when my daddy's rich and I'm rich? Why am I even doing this? Let's just go. I think that's going to be the hill term.

Am I wrong? Am I crazy for that? Do you think that's a little wrong? I think you're actually fucking prescient for even saying that because in real life we know of what they call the revolving door, right? When people go from the public sector right into the warm embrace of the private sector,

They go from being regulators. It's like journalists going to PR. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. They go from being regulators to people whose job it is to manipulate the regulations, right? We see that shit time and time again. We do.

People go from working at the SEC. We saw on the show. Go from working at the SEC to working at some Wall Street bank. Like we see it all the time in real life. And so, yeah, of course, it wouldn't surprise me. me to see Chuck sell out and go work for the money. After he's like probably two weeks after he's stomping on police cars, it's like yelling at Mike Prince.

That's the, that's exactly what he's going to go to work. Yeah, bro. Come on, dog. We know, we know the banana in the tailpipe when we see you, man. I think what also comes with the banana in the tailpipe, I'm going to fuck you up. And I really want to, I want to get your thoughts on this one. if and when Chuck goes legit does he get Wendy back in the process?

I say yes. It's tough. The way she lied straight to that man's face with the fake crocodile tears on that helipad, I don't know if Wendy is rocking with an old boy anymore, man. She's going to find out. No, but Axe ain't even, don't warrant either, bro.

Axis is in Sweden, bro. What seems you just saying. Is it a way? She's going to go back to what she knows. She's getting lonely. Yeah. Okay. The father of her children is going to make homage for them.

You know what I mean? Flip, do the perfect flips for them? Yes or no? Do you think that that happens? I'm still on the no side because that was cold-blooded the way she just did the, oh, no, ex is going on. She did that fake shit.

That was crazy. That was sick. That was sick. But also, you know. man. You know, she was just probably trying to

just throw him off the sense. She's a G. She's a G. She got games. She does. Wendy Rose is a G. She got super game. Super game, bro.

All right. So what happens with Wags? Does he get married? Does Wags lead a revolt over the new Mike Prince? Because my money is on absolutely. Like him, Taylor,

and Wendy are going to just just get this done up in the first five weeks of the show. And that's the thing about to tie in exactly what we said on the show my prince is won but he's done it in such a scorched earth way where he has literally enemies

every single where he turns it's going to be short-lived for that brother man they're going to be working against him I think to see Wendy and Taylor forming alliance which I think is coming is going to be really cool for them to be back on the same track because seeing them at odds I'm not going to lie it's like seeing your two parents

especially as two of my favorite characters on the show. Like, Jesus, our parents are fighting, you know. So I think they're going to get back together. Obviously, Wags is not going to pledge any actual loyalty to this freaking chunk. So we'll see what happens with that. We saw Dollar Bill and Maffee was like, yeah, we're out of here. We're about to take this one. Dollar Bill is a G, bro.

I worked for a legend. No, the way he said, he said, I work for a fucking legend. I work for a legend. Get out of here. Are you kidding me? He teams up and McPhee. Like, fuck it. I think that Dollar Bill, he's out in the winds.

He knows Wendy and Taylor can't join him, but that's the first little seeds that they're going to just branch out, that they're going to branch out. What is the thing that Prince is keeping from everybody else? The bad thing. Is it insider training? Is it what's going on? Is it hemorrhaging money?

What did he do to fuck up? maybe they'll introduce some sort of Epstein element next year. I'm saying I could see something like that, like something. Or it's in like some eyes wide shut shit where it's like it's just so crazy. Eyes wide shut is too normal for these people. Like that's just normal levels of depravity for these people. Like it's got to be something like actually sinister. Well, Chuck does live eyes wide shut.

Exactly. Okay. All right. All right. That's interesting. One thing I want to ask, though, is how does Chuck seniors really? relationship with his son evolved to, right? Because are they going to be good at the end of the day?

I think, or is Chuck Sr. going to flip when he feels like, you didn't get, you didn't really get axed. You're nothing to me. Mike Prince is my new son now. I think what the show is trying to do with Chuck Senior and this new kid is like, show that it's like changing him. Like this new parenthood is making a softer, more cuddlier and gentler Chuck Senior. And I think we continue to see that in his, the evolution of his relationship with.

with our Chuck. You know, it feels like that baby has just awakened some things in him that just we just haven't seen. That was a beautiful scene at the end when he said, your brother's a great man. I did some, I should have some thug tears when he said that. Feels, feels, feels all over. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

That's where we got. I could get messy with a question, but I'm not going to do that. I'm going to just do it. I'll just do it. Who wins the proverbial show on show this season? Succession or billions? I mean, it's going to be... I'm really excited for season three of Succession.

I think Succession is going to win it just because they have more time together to do some things. And now we have to do the split thing with billions. But who wins? And just for me, Succession as well, just for me, because, like, Secession has like four or five left. loud moments every single episode where I'm just howling at my television. Succession just has the audacity, bro.

Yeah. It's just like, we're all fucked up and we are all fucked up. It is what it is. So, yeah, I'm excited for that. Can't wait. All right, man. Well, this has been another edition of the Prestige TV pod. I am Logan Murdoch.

That is Big Was. We will see y'all next time, man. Holla.