The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Bridgerton’ Season 2 Episodes 1-4

Episode Date: March 26, 2022

Juliet and Jodi talk about all the drama and romance that has unfolded through Season 2, Episode 4 of ‘Bridgerton,' including Anthony Bridgerton’s complicated relationship with the Sharma sisters, the central mystery surrounding Lady Whistledown’s identity, and much more. Hosts: Juliet Litman and Jodi Walker Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Welcome to the Prestage TV podcast. I'm Juliet Litman. I am joined today by my colleague Jody Walker, and we are here to talk about one of the most important television shows of all time. We're at your 10th. Season two is here, people. It's on Netflix. Jody, what did you think? Oh, Juliet, it's good to be back in the ton. Spring has sprung. It feels right. I really enjoyed seeing all the colors as the sun is staying up longer here in our real last. it just felt right. It felt good to be back. It really did. I was like, oh, right, I miss these people.

And the world building continues. It's a broader world, more spaces than we saw last time. It continues to evolve. And I think people, if you're listening to this, I assume you liked it because you want to talk about it. But I think in general, it's going to be pretty well received. How do you think it will be received versus season one? I think it's going to be a little less heated. You know, season one came in with such force because we were at such a place in the pandemic. There was a lot of sex in it. There was a new star in Regé Jean-Page. And so I think there was this big boom around it.

Any season two is going to be a little lesser of an impact maybe, but I think people are really going to like it. I think if there's one thing that I could assure people who love season one and are maybe feeling a little less excited about season two, it's that the characters are really good. And you're getting to spend a lot of time with characters that you liked. And in general, I found that, like, I really didn't miss following the Duke. Daphne is back and she's doing a very different thing that I also enjoyed that we can discuss later. But, yeah, I think that people are really going to like the new love story and the old stories that were returning to with a new twist.

What did you think about season two? Yeah, I agree with you. I love the Sharmas, who we will talk about. I particularly love Kate Sharma, played by Simone Ashley, of Sex Education Fame. She's fantastic. She's a great leading lady. So we'll talk about her. But I don't miss the Duke at all.

The only thing is we're here to talk about episodes one through four, half the season. Four episodes in, there have been several almost very steamy kisses. And like, it's almost sort of like, you know, it's really like the television equivalent of blue balls, but no actual sex or actual making out even. It is a slow burn. Slow, slow, slow burn. And the chasteness is like compared to the, so this season centers on Anthony Bridgerton, who's the oldest Bridgeton. He is the Viscount because his father died, which we learned about in episode three, more on that to come.

And he is first introduced to us in season one, if you recall, with a bare ass. We're seeing him having sacks up against a tree. and Antony has been incredibly clothed through four episodes. Like actually I remarked to myself, wow, he's wearing a lot of layers. He must be really hot. So honestly, that's the biggest difference to me between seasons one, season two. This is like far more chaste in a way that I wasn't really expecting. And I'm sort of curious.

Like, I wonder if that was feedback or it just felt more appropriate to the story. But Anthony was like a pretty minor character in season one. So it's not like they couldn't have some secondary characters having sex. in season two. Right. It is like a pretty big choice because of the way they introduced sex on the show in season one. Yeah, they seem to really be doing some, like, rejiggering of the formula that they created in season one.

I think that chasteness could be owed to two things. One, that the character of Anthony kind of needed an overhaul in order to become the main character. He was kind of just an ass in season one. He was like an ass to his sister and a real, like, like, like, he was like an ass to his sister and a real, like a real, like, thorn in her side about finding her love or finding the thing that she has to find in this society, which is a husband. And he was also, like, a total fuckboy to his opera singer girlfriend who he would not

just commit to until she got another boyfriend. It was, like such classic behavior that, I mean, I like- Total fuck-boy stuff. Total fuck-boy behavior. Like, I liked him because I really like the actor, Jonathan Bailey, and, you know, I mean, it can be fun to watch a fuck boy. He wasn't the main character. But to make him the main character, it seems that in season two, he really fancies himself a gentleman.

Like, he's ready to step— And like responsible for the family. He's ready to step into this role of the Viscount of Lord Bridgerton that he was, you know, as we find out, was really thrust upon him at two young of an age. But the other thing—are you laughing at me saying thrust? Yes, after you could describe him as an ass, and I was like, yeah, we saw his ass. Yeah, they went real literal in season one. with that ass. And then the other thing is season two seems to be staying a little truer to the romance genre

and less like the more specific bodice ripper genre. You know, we've talked a bit of... Yeah, we've talked a bit about like the sort of genre themes that they're using. So in season one, it's more of like a fake relationship theme, which is very common to romance genre. And in season two, we're dealing with like a friends to lovers theme, which in general, I think is just a slower burn. And honestly, in season one, I got a little, I did get a little bored because they almost, they got married pretty quickly. And then you're like, okay, well, they're married. So I know this is going to turn out. Okay. In season one, it feels like there,

or at least in these first four episodes, it feels like we're building real stakes that are going to become very prickly in the later four episodes. That's a good point. Because four episodes in and episode four ends with the proposal that we've been expecting. And so we know that this will marriage. There's no way this marriage comes to be. So the next one, what are they going to do, Juliet? I'm really upset. I'm really nervous about it. Okay, we'll get into that. But I would also say like some other, some other changes from season one to season two. And it's most notable with Anthony, Jonathan, who's played by Jonathan Bailey. They eliminated his awful Wolverine sideburns.

I'm like, one of those, those called mutton chops. Like, those are gone. He's completely clean shaven. I think he looks... His hair is a little shorter.

A little... He was very tall. He looks so dashing. He's got a tan. I don't think he was working with in season one. All the Bridgerton brothers got a tan.

Okay. They all shorten their hair a bit. Just, this is on the rewatchables, this is reserved for the end. My biggest problem with this show, my biggest knit to pick, is that Brother Benedict, who is second old

like honestly looks like he is everyone's father. Like, why is he so much look so much older than everyone? It just is like confusing casting. No shots. He looks great. Age is but a number. But it just doesn't make sense with the show. Yeah, it is a bit confusing.

And I know in the first season, a lot of people thought all of the brothers looked exactly alike. And like, and I think that's the point is for them to look alike because they're brothers. They all look like Prince Eric from Little Mermaid. They all have like this like jet black. hair and these like billowing sleeves. It's a little easier to tell them apart this season.

I think I don't know if some of the changes that they've made in tone and theme in season two are really as a response to season one because I think people liked the sex. But I think a lot of the physical changes are. Daphne is still wearing a parted bang that is still there from time to time, but it is not nearly as wispy. It looks it looks a little more appropriate. And the bangs are longer, thank God. And it's not her only look. When she's introduced at season one, there's a big buildup to her arrival.

Sorry, in episode one. And she doesn't have any bangs at all. And it was such a huge relief. Also, I will say, like, I was going to mention that, too, like the other things they've changed

or sort of like everyone got to glow up. Like, everyone's bangs improved. And I think the costumes, like, fit just a little bit more flattering, probably a little bit less faithful to the era, but just a little bit more flattering for 2022. And the production design remains like just illustrious.

And the flowers, I was like, I was like, God, I want to have flowers like that in my life. Like it was just, it's just a beautiful world to inhabit. And it's been really fun. One thing I wanted to touch on that you just mentioned is sort of bodice ripping versus romance genre. And so these, these, the series is based on Julia Quinn's Richardson books. The first one was the Duke and I. That was about Daphne and Simon.

The second one is based on the Viscount Who Loved Me, which is the story of Antony. So they are going in sequential order with the books. And the major difference in this season is that the family with the jewel of the season, who is named Edwina Sharma and her sister Kate Sharma, who is the lead. She is not named, but she is the titular character. She is, I assume, the one who's loved by the Viscount, based on what I've seen through four episodes. But they decided to, we talked about this in our preview episode, the show decided to turn the Sheffield family from the book into the Sharma family for the show to introduce an Indian family. And as much as discussed how they're from Bombay and that Kate will go back to Bombay after she marries off her sister.

And we talked about it in the preview episode, which you should check out if you haven't. But I think it's been a really compelling change and just like a really great idea. And season one was talked about as being race blind and race was not really addressed until later on in the season. But this is just more kind of like, I would call it more like deliberate casting to have a more inclusive show. And I think if I didn't know that it was a change from the books, I wouldn't even think about it as like a active choice to be inclusive casting. And I think it was a really smart move. mostly just because Simone Ashley's so awesome. I love her. Yeah. They really have nailed the casting on the Sharma Sisters. I agree. So I actually have read the Viscount who loves me. I can never get over

that title. It's very silly. It's better than the Duke and I. I love it. It is. They're both, they're both appropriate for the books that they are. And yeah, even having read it, I wouldn't really think anything of this change, except that it's a great change. It gives so much more immediate backstory to the characters of Kate and Edwina, as played by Kate, as played by Simone Ashley, like you said, who is like a revelation. She's radiant. She, yeah, she, she, so one thing that is funny about a difference from the books is that, like, the main difference between the sisters in the books is that Edwina is the diamond of the of the season because she is so undeniably gorgeous. She, like, embodies what a Viscountess should be and what a lady should be.

She's petite and she's fair as they describe her in the book. And she is, you know, knows all of her lady things. And then Kate is just, like, a much less noticeable person. And if there's one thing I would call Simone Ashley, it is noticeable. I just think that like, and they certainly don't try to establish her as unattractive or anything in the show. But that is one of the main differences between the sisters and the books that sort of drives this Anthony's desire to marry Edwina is that she is the diamond for all these reasons. She's the diamond for some different interesting reasons here in these first four episodes as decided by the queen. But yeah, I think that backstory is really interesting.

And that it was, yeah, it was a wise move. It's great to see South Asian representation here in this exciting world of Bridgeton. It also, you know, there was a really small moment where I believe, I can't remember who asked it, but someone asked Kate if she misses India and she misses Bombay. And she was like, yes, particularly at tea time. And I thought that was a really great moment of just sort of like acknowledging the British Empire and like also acknowledging that though many Westerners think of, the Brits as like, you know, a tea capital because it's a big, like tea, like afternoon tea,

such a big part of culture as it's been exported around the world. They really, you know, tea is exported from India. And that's where they got their tea from. And sort of like, it's actually much more native to Southeast Asian cultures than it is to English culture. And I thought that was like a really smart and small moment that sort of made, have made this season fuller to me and just more interesting and there's more going on. So for what it lacks in sex, it is adding in substance. So it's still pretty sexy. It's just not quite as nude. Yeah, exactly. I really did not find myself missing the sex in the in the first four episodes. Episode by an episode four, I was like, wow, their chemistry is pretty intense. I was surprised by at the end of episode four,

not the end, but the second half, episode four, Kate and Antony almost like, I don't know, if not Bone, make out in the library until they're interrupted by Daphne. Their noses are never not touching in episode four. Like, they're very hot scene. So close, so close so many times. Yeah, so in episode one through three, we're getting all these stares. As far as a like, you know, hate to love relationship, it stays pretty steadily. in hate for episodes one through three.

Like, they cannot stand each other. And sure, there's tension building, but it really topples over in episode four and that I had to stop myself at episode four to not spoil anything to be able to split the season in half with you was very frustrating. Same. I was ready to go straight at episode five,

but we'll do that after the pod. So I think one other major, theme that I wanted to hit on that we also, that will lead us into talking about like where we left some of our favorite characters and what they're up to now is this season also really introduces concepts about like women's liberation and like the role of women in Regency London. And Eloise and Kate are I think are two different avatars for that. Eloise very much bristles against the entire sort of debut and marrying culture. and Kate is a spinster, which I actually would not have realized,

except that Eloise said to her, like, what's it like to be a spinster? Which is so rude. Whatever. Only Eloise could say that because that's like her aspiration. Totally. She's like, I'd like to be a spinster. What's that like for you?

Yeah. How'd you pull this off? Anyway, between the two of them, I think this season really tries to explore within the Bridgerton world. So, you know, with limitations, like what are the roles that women can play and, and how, how can they expand on those roles? And it's like another reason why I really like this season, because between Kate, Eloise, and I would then throw in Penelope Featherington and the modiste, Madame Delacroix,

Lady Danbury, and the queen, we got like a lot of powerful women in this show. And I think like with romance genres, and I just based on my own experience reading the first Bridgetton book. I was just like, I can't believe people love this. Like, it's so silly and like, un-newiced. But I think this show actually, in its own way, is much more nuance than people might assume and much more nuanced than season one. And that's actually a hallmark of Shonda Rhyme's television. So I'm glad to see it's made it into Bridgeton. Yeah, it's a tricky line to walk because I agree that, like, at this point, we have established a number of really layered and interesting characters who are not just strong women,

but who think about what it's like to be a woman. You know, they think about their lot in life, and they sort of toil over it, and it bothers them. The tricky line to walk is that they still don't have a ton of power to change it. And we've heard Kate say that her plan is to stay single, and her plan is to become a governess. and she thinks that she'll find that very fulfilling. Of course, what we know is that we are in the romance genre.

We're watching her fall in love with someone despite herself. And so it is kind of hard in these stories to not then still ultimately make the role be that, like, a woman can be strong and powerful and independent. But she will get married. And it is important that you fall in love. And that is a major part of life. And you better do it if people are going to be interested in you. It's true. It's true. I was actually wondering if the show will introduce a queer character.

Maybe not this season, but it seems really, it seems like that would be natural for the world that this show is in. And I do hope to see that in the future. I think that would be interesting and just sort of different. I agree. I was disappointed that that wasn't the turn that Benedict's character was taking. It seemed in season two or in season one, like that might be something that he was interested in. But then once again, it kind of just, you know, it hinted at that at a different sort of lifestyle. for one of these central characters and then just kind of veered away. So I am interested to see as...

It turned out his lifestyle as being artsy and doing drugs. His lifestyle is just being like an art boy. It's just painting, like occasionally taking mushrooms in season two. So maybe next time. I also wanted more from that. I wanted more fallout from him just doing a ton of like acid or whatever that was. Yeah, everyone at the dinner table seemed very comfortable with him clearly being like high out of his mind. Exactly. Like, no one even comment on it at all.

Should we go through where the different characters are and sort of where things stand? I will say the other thing about this season that I'm enjoying is there's actually a lot of mysteries. Like, here are the open questions that we're still facing halfway through the season. So one person has figured out that Penelope is Lady Whistledown. And that one person is my beloved Modest, Madame Delacroix. And that's because she saw Penelope in the mark. It buying a K for the typesetter where she sets her, where she prints her newsletter because Eloise, her BFF had figured out that a pamphlet about taming dogs was printed at the same place.

For Eloise who's been like trying to figure this out for seasons and seasons. And then Madame Delacroix is just like, yeah, duh. Well, I was like, why did that have to be the assumption that the Madame Delacroix made that like, that's how she figured out that it was Penelope. Like, Penelope basically told her. I think Penelope gives herself, yeah, she gives herself up a little when she, when she shows up at the shop and, and has a very, very pointed conversation with her. Something I find interesting is, like, how assertive and dominant Penelope is able to be

when she is in her, like, hooded cloak as Lady Whistledown. And then as Penelope, she just, she just reverts right back into, you know, being shy and and someone who can't really speak her mind or get her words right. I find that a little silly. I liked that as, as like she went to the printer as like an emissary of Lady Whistledown. She spoke in an Irish accent. Yeah, is that, is that Nicole Cawlin?

That's her real accent. I figured it must be. I really liked it. Me too. You should watch dairy girls, Jody, if you haven't. I know. I have heard that over and over. I've got to cruise through these Bridgeton Epps and then get on Dairy.

girls. It's a, it's a subtitle must show because of the strong accents, but it's great. Anyway, while we're talking about Penelope, so she, that's one of the major mysteries that still lasts is who else will figure out that she's lady bustle down? And more or more, how will she and Madame Delacroix work together? Because they sewed a letter into the dress of someone. I don't know whose dress that was and I don't know what the letter said. Were there any clues about it? Well, I think they're just using the dress as a pass between. It's not like it's, it's, it's just going between them. And it's the way, so as opposed to Penelope having to keep going to that part of town to expose herself to more and more people, she can just, you know, send this dress

around to the Modis. Yeah, it's smart. How smart. How do you feel about, like, how she's developing her business, how this teenager is pulling off, like, the most, the biggest mystery in London. A friend of I pointed out that she seems to know a lot more than she should. So I don't know if in the books Penelope is always Lady Whistledown or if that's revealed much later on. It's certainly not revealed in the first book. Is it revealed in the second book? It's not revealed in the second. I believe I've read that it's revealed in the fourth. Gotcha. Because she seems to have much more knowledge than she plausibly could. And so there's some issues around that Lady Whistledown piece of it. But I am interested to see how the queen figures it out because that's the other main plot tied to Lady Whistledown,

which is the queen is planting information to trace and tease out who the mole is. And so she's narrowed it down to seven women, Penelope being one of them. And so I think a big question for this season that remains for the second half is, will the queen figure out that it's Penelope as well? Right. Yeah. I mean, they're really set in opposition to each other. And the queen, with all her resources is like a pretty big enemy to have. And it seems like she's getting really close to figuring it out. They certainly in season two kind of, you know, play some like sepia-toned flashback

themes, flashback scenes to show how Penelope has been pulling this off and how she's been overhearing all these stories. But I do think that's kind of part of the TV show that isn't necessarily in the books. is that just how much Lady Whistledown knows and how, like, you know, omniscient to her view of this town is. What I'm always curious about is, like, when is she writing these papers?

We always see her, like, tucking a fully written folded paper into her, you know, bodice, which as a writer, that's the dream is that you just observe things and then all of a sudden they're written down on paper and you don't actually have to do the, like, 12 hours of writing.

I said in the last podcast that I didn't want to see her sitting in a window nook writing her papers and now I'm complaining about it. I'm not complaining. I'm just curious when she is writing them because she seems to get them to the publisher like that night. Right. I don't know either. There's a lot of logistical questions around Lady Whistledown.

That's not asking them. Let's just carry on, you know? Right. Because we're definitely not going to get more sex if we get deeper into the business of Lady Whistledown. The last Whistledown question that I have. have that I want to know is when is the money going to come into play? Because if there's one thing we know about the Featheringtons is that they're in constant peril of like being completely broke.

And Penelope is out here with a side hustle. She has like a booming business and she's hiding all her nickels in the floorboard. When is that going to come into play? Like when is she going to save the family from ruin? Right. It's a great question. Hadn thought about it. But that leads us to one of new characters this season. Cousin Jack. Cousin Jack. He's gotten himself into a mess. He didn't see what was coming with all these ladies. Cousin Jack is the new Lord Featherington.

He returns from America to, you know, the father Featherington was killed last season. Right? Because of his debts, essentially? Correct. And the new Lord Featherington has arrived and he is. supposed to be the savior of the Featherington family, Mama Featherington, whose name, I don't remember,

but she's Lady Featherington, played by Polly Walker. She is desperate to get one of her daughters to marry him because she thinks that is the only way to maintain to make sure the family fortune is bequeathed back into her family versus someone else. And so she basically sets him up to be caught like with his hand on her daughter. What's her daughter's name who's not Penelope? It's with a P. It is with a P. We're going to look it up. He said daughter number two. They trick him in, they trick him into

having to be get betrothed to her. But it turns out he's broke. And so that there actually is no Featherington fortune anywhere. And he was trying to marry up so that they could all have some money. So now they're in a real pickle. And we'll have to find out. Yes, I think it is Portia. Thank you to Sasha for looking it up for us. Her name was. Porsche. Fetterington. I happen to love Cousin Jack.

He's like really like just like a basic British guy from Regency London. I'm just like, cool. This makes this tracks. He reminds me of the vicar

from Grantchester like looks wise who also was in Greta Gerwig's Little Women. But I just think he's like kind of a fun rando and a fun twist to throw in to the mix.

He is. I'm finding the Featherington storyline a lot more interesting this season. And I'm enjoying getting to know Lady Featherington as like when she's backed into a corner, how she keeps fighting and how she keeps figuring it out. And I think that that is kind of a more nuanced way of showing or a nuanced way, at least, of showing sort of like what a woman could achieve if given more latitude to achieve

it in this world. Is that, you know, like had she been the head of household all along, then none of this probably would have happened. Of course, she's not successful in her scheme. I don't mean to paint her as like a success, but maybe if she had a little more insight from the beginning and if the men in this world were a little more honest with the women in this world and there was a little more communication,

then we might be able to figure out some of these things before they absolutely go to shit. Yeah. When I look at Lady Featherington, I just see Julie Cooper from the OC. It's so distracting. Me too. She looks so much like Melinda Clark.

I know. And talk about a scheming mom. Yeah, I see the exact same thing. It's so overwhelming. Some other characters to check in on before we come back to the central love between Antony and Kate and the problem that is Kate's sister Edwina. Colin Bridgeton is back from his tour of Greece. Wasn't traveling as long as anyone expected.

He's still in love with Marina. Penelope's still in love with him. and he seems as daft as ever. But now he has a goatee, which he luckily shaves. Oh, you liked it? I was on the side of Benedict that he looked like he had some sort of growth.

But I think I like Colin, too. I think Colin's a sweet boy. Like he's, you know, he's, he is one of the only men who is extremely forthcoming with his feelings often to his own detriment. What did you think about that? meeting between he and Marina. Were you expecting to see her come back into the mix?

I didn't expect to see her at all. I thought she was just wrapped up and gone. I liked it. I thought it was another scene of like a kind of a woman setting boundaries and limits and just being like this is, even if the system doesn't necessarily benefit Marina, she has found a way to move forward with her life, be happy or content, as he said. And I thought it was like a kind of an interesting twist again on like the damsel who needs to find a husband.

She was like, well, I did find a husband and I'm good. So, like, you're out. So I just thought, like, it was kind of an unexpected moment, not just because I thought she was, like, off the show. But I, you know, it's not another, like, love that can never be. I mean, it is for Colin, but it's just like it's a different, it's a different iteration of that, like, very familiar trope. Yeah, I liked it also as sort of, like, a reflection back on what's happening between Kate

and Anthony. I mean, the central question of these, this. season for a lot of these characters is like setting contentedness and true love in direct opposition and can they ever coexisted once? And if they can't, then like, I think Marina is sort of proof that the answer is not always true love, that like maybe what Antony is attempting to achieve with just trying to find like an, you know, amicable relationship with with a woman that he is not necessarily in love with, but can build a life with, is maybe an okay thing to do.

Of course, the twist is that he actually does have someone in his stratosphere that he cannot avoid and does love, and Marina never had that, poor Colin. To quote The Bachelor, he's falling in love and thinks he could be in love. In fact, he says early on, love shall have no place in my marriage. I think an amiable partner with whom I may share, a pleasant life, untouched by heartbreak, and the ravages of grief. And, you know, we learn a lot more

about Anthony that makes that make sense. Let's come back to that in a second. Just quickly on Eloise, she's making her debut. What do you think Alouise's future holds for her? Knowing these books, I think future is, the future is still going to hold a husband, no matter how much she is fighting it right now. But I hope that it holds an enlightened mind and maybe, you know, moving out of this society that seems to really stifle her and trap her.

I'm interested to see what she learns from these pamphlets and from her continued trips to the other side of town. I have to say that I really love this performance. of Eloise by Claudia Jessie. It's so physical in a way that a lot of the other performances in this show are not. She's always, like, flinging her arms around and, like, kind of collapsing on to other characters. I find it to be a very comedic performance.

And just on another note on bangs, she is really pulling her bangs off. They look much better. They've grown in a little bit. They're much better. It's funny you say she's a real comedic performance because I also think that for her, She wears the same clothes as everyone else. They don't fit better or worse. But they do seem much more restrictive on her.

And, like, she just, she embodies the feeling of being restricted really well. And that's sort of a big part of her personality. And it comes through in, like, all of her physical acting. She is, she is great. I will say, you know, I don't miss the Duke because I have enjoyed so many more characters. Like, as a result, I even like Daphne more. Like, I, I find her as sort of, like, the wise older. sister advocating for love to be in like and not even in a heavy-handed way to be like much more

interesting and additive to the TV show than what she was with Simon. So I don't, I really don't miss him. I don't know. I actually, I didn't think I would, but I continue to not. Although I will say I miss his handsome face. Yeah. I mean, there's there's nothing not to miss about about what he brought to season one. But there's, there's not like a hole in season two. There's not missing place because the sort of romance of that relationship and definitely the angst of that relationship has been, you know, has been filled out by what we're finding between Antony and Kate. So should we talk about, about Anthony and Kate? Yeah, we've got to. So the Sharmas are Indian and they've come to have Edwina, the younger, the younger Sharma, find a had

been. She is, she is named the diamond of the season, and we find out that it's sort of for alternate reasons. It's not just because she actually is the diamond. Why does the queen name her such? Well, part of it is her continued, um, her continued quest to uncover Lady Whistledown. So, so a big part of Kate and Edwina's entry into this society is that they are both insiders and outsiders. So they're coming from India. They're coming from another country. But Edwina's mother, Lady Mary Sheffield, which was the original name of the girls of the women in the books. Lady Mary Sheffield originally belonged to London Society. She fell in love with basically like a clerk and they absconded to India. And she hasn't been back since. And that was basically a betrayal of both

her parents and the crown. And so her return, and the man that she married was Kate's father who had already Kate. So Kate and Edwina are half-sisters. And though Mary certainly views Kate as her daughter, she is not actually her mother by birth. And so this sort of like one foot in the society, one foot out of the society plays into almost all of their relationships, including that of the queen. who probably because of her feeling of betrayal by Mary

would not have named Edwina the diamond. However, because of Edwina's place as an outsider, the queen will be able to watch as other people get close to her, including whoever she believes is Lady Whistledown. So she's kind of playing a game where she uses Edwina to see which other ladies in society cozy up to her so that she can then keep an eye on those ladies. to figure out who Lady Whistledown is.

We don't know if that will work, but that ultimately sets up the story of Anthony and Kate because as we move from season one into season two, Anthony proclaimed at the end of season one that obviously the best way to achieve a successful marriage is to just avoid love altogether, which sounds like kind of a silly proclamation and just something that would be like a one-note

part to the character. But in season two, I really think they're doing a good job of creating his backstory with his father. In Bridgerton, all the dads are dead. There are no dads. Like, all of the dads have died and it has really left a lasting impact on their sons.

And for Anthony, that impact is that he watched the way that his mother grieved his father and that his father's death completely disrupted the family. And one small thing to note from the book is that Anthony's greatest fear and belief is that he will die early. He just has this belief that he will die early like his father did. And so that is the big instigator for this insistence that he not have a love match. Because that quote that you read earlier, love shall have no place in my marriage. I think an amiable partner with whom I may share a problem.

pleasant life, untouched by heartbreak and the ravages of grief, is something that he says to his mother while they're sitting by his father's grave after we've seen a flashback of just how absent his mother was after the death of his father and how she was in such a haze of grief that Antony really had to take over doing everything for the family, both that his father did and for a while that his mother did. And he says that no matter how hard-hearted people think he is, he could never bring that sort of pain upon a woman. And so his totally great plan is to just not fall in love with a woman. And he unfortunately and sort of sadly sees Edwina as a woman that he can respect and trust,

but never fall in love with. And that she happens to be named the diamond of the season is the key to it all. It's just like an obvious choice that he has picked this woman, Edwina, and he will not let go. But of course. Yeah. And this season also positions the Bridgeton family as like incredibly desirable where it was clear it was in season one, but it's made explicit by like everyone would want to join the

Bridgeton family if they're the best. So yeah, I really love that focus on the family in season two. It's a lot of fun. I love any scene with the three brothers is like a lot of fun when they're fencing. I was like, how have we never had a fencing scene before? That seems so obvious. And then one of the more critical scenes of this season so far is when the Bridgetons and Kate and Edwina play Palmao, which you may know is croquet. Right.

And, yeah, so the transition to the country is also a really big part of season two. And that's like a really fun new setting to see the Bridgetons in at their country home. And then eventually the whole ton comes to join them there. And also because they go to their country home, that's how we get the backstory. of Edmund Bridgeton, the eighth Viscount Bridgeton dying, which is he gets stung by B and he dies. It's very my girl. And it's also as traumatizing for Antony as it was for Veda.

Oh, gosh, Juliet. I didn't even think about that. I'm sorry. As if it could not be any more sad. He seemed to at least, I thought his acting, his performance implied that he also felt responsible for the death because he was out, it was just he and his father who were out hunting and then they were looking at flowers. And he wasn't able to save him. And it also, I also think there was like a slight suggestion that Lady Bridgerton blamed him for the death as well. And so

they don't say that, but I think, actually that's like a good part of the show where I do think part of grief is also blame and trying, it's like, it's kind of a byproduct of trying to like make it make sense. And I thought that was pretty compelling. And probably the most harrowing, part of the flashbacks is when Lord Bridgeton, Edmund Bridgeton dies, Lady Bridgetton is pregnant with their eighth child hyacinth. And she is in labor when the doctor tells Antony that he has to decide, like, who should the doctor try to save? Should it be the mother or should it be the baby? And we find out later on that luckily it was neither. They both lived. But that was like a really harrowing scene. And I think also like lent to the feeling of like what are the role of women in

in this society where like this woman's son is deciding if she lives or if his future sibling lives. And that was like that was really intense. And I think to your point you made earlier helps us understand Anthony's sense of responsibility and obligation to his family like from like a really formative experience like that and really definitely changed the way that I saw this character. That was intense. Yeah. It was really. It was really. intense. I think they do a great job of establishing, you know, we're always thinking about gender roles in this society, but what I've found really fascinating about season two is the exploration of like birth order roles and how that plays into personalities for the younger siblings, but most

especially how it plays into this like immense sense and burden of responsibility for the older siblings and that that is so much of what places Kate Sharma and Anthony Bridgetton in conflict is their roles as older siblings attempting to protect their younger siblings in Kate's case and protect the interest of the family in Anthony's case. Well, actually, in Kate's case as well, that both sets them in opposition and makes them such similar people that really they can only, they can understand each other in a way that most other people can't. I feel like a lot of couples that I know if older siblings do marry each other, oldest siblings.

And so I found that like just kind of an interesting little mark. And I think that especially after having to do a little bit of reworking of the Antony character, I think, you know, I mean a flashback is like a pretty obvious plot choice. And sometimes the flashbacks look. Yeah. And sometimes they look a little silly because they're like. like so hazy and it's, you know, they're using little tricks to establish that it's a flashback, but it's okay. It's that kind of show. And I think the content of those flashbacks really do establish why Anthony is like such a pest sometimes. Like, but then what they do a lot with the

Daphne character is show that while he has been burdened by this, he's also made himself a bit of a victim of it. And that there are certain things. things he's doing for the family that they're not asking him to do. But he did have this thrust upon him at such a young age that, you know, you also have to understand that like he's still learning and understanding. But yeah, it's interesting to see how those two characters approach being the eldest sibling and sort of taking responsibility for their family. Yeah, it's a good point. And from the moment they meet, it's basically like a tete-a-tete. she, following in the tradition of season one, she overhears, something happens in the garden,

and she overhears Anthony talking to the lads at the ball about how he is not looking for a love match and just sort of being, as the episode is called, a capital R r rake. And that's after she had been riding a horse out in the fields of Lady Danbury and they sort of had like a run in there. And so it's a very rocky beginning. And it's a real, seesaw back and forth of emotion, like through four episodes that builds to them having, like, increased physical contact. Like, they go shooting together, and he, and he basically embraces her as he helps her hold the rifle, like, in the English way versus the Indian way. And then she gets sung by a B in a really harrowing moment. And he's so worried about it,

he touches her chest, which is an incredibly forward move in Regency era England. Yeah, so I'll cut in real quick to say that this is a scene that I think any book reader has to have in this show to sort of respect it, but they've changed the scene a lot. So, I mean, I don't think it's like any spoilers to say because they've totally changed the scene. But in the book, the father dies by a bee sting, so that is very traumatizing to him. Kate gets stung by a bee, and he has a similar. reaction that we see him have in the show where he's completely losing it, going into this

sort of trauma response, afraid she's going to die. And what he does is attempt to suck the venom out of her chest with his mouth. Which I was like, please don't let them do this in the show. Please don't let them do this in the show. I don't think this is going to work out. And they actually get caught

a couple of mothers, including their own mother's approach and see them. And like in season one, they're somewhat forced into a marriage. And so that has obviously changed. And I think that had to change because you couldn't have just like the exact same narrative as season one. But I thought the thing where they have, they have her place his hand on her chest. And then she places hers and his on his chest.

And it's almost like they're feeling each other's heartbeats. And that seems like what you would do kind of in like a panic attack. And I just thought that was a really interesting. and sweet moment. And that's really the first point of physicality that we see for them in season three. I mean, in episode three, and then episode four is just like nonstop,

almost touching moments like you were starting to get into. The libraries is where it all happens, which is, you know, I think we're, we both like books. So as a book lover, it's great.

Library is where all the action should happen. Yeah, if you're at a party, just always go ahead, find the library with sliding ladders, step on in, and it's better than tender. You'll probably find a date. Yeah. No problem. Were there any other moments in the Antony and Kate courtship that you particularly liked or felt were like really significant to how they're building the story?

I mean, for me, as far as the moments of them, you know, because we're watching them fall in love basically through stairs, like staring at each other. It's like all eye contact. It's very romance novel. It's very romance novel. He, Jonathan Bailey, has got a stare on him. I mean, I do think that he is really, he's really like proving his worth as a leading man there.

And she has a much more of a sort of poker face. Like, it's, it's different than what he's doing. It's not so intense. It's always thinking. And I like the difference between that. But so for me, the moment where I was, you know, like, really having to fan myself, is before that huge library scene where they very nearly kiss and Daphne catches them, it's when Edwina asks them to dance together because she is in a place

where she truly wants to get engaged to Antony. She wants to be the Viscountess. And at the exact same time that these two are obviously starting to have feelings for each other, and they are getting themselves into a real predicament. And so when she asks them to dance together, so that he can actually ask for the approval of her sister who has been unwilling to give it thus far. You just know this is going to go badly. But it feels so similar to the scene in Pride and Prejudice, in the Kieran Knightley version of Pride and Prejudice, with Tom Wiams, Gans. I can never say his last name, Matthew McFadden. When they have their dance together that's so full of tension.

This is like a YouTube clip I watch constantly. And as they're dancing, like everyone around them disappears, and it's just them. And that doesn't happen in this scene between Kate and Anthony dancing. But it's just, it's so rich with like small touches and staring and tension. And he asks her, if I ask for your sister's hand in marriage, would you say yes? And she says, I want my sister to be happy. So really only you can answer, would you make her happy? And they're just dancing around.

this idea of that they both obviously want it to be them. But because of the people that they are, the place that they hold in their families, they believe that it can't be them. And I think that they both have this inability to not communicate with each other honestly or with the people around them honestly because they're taking so much on themselves

is like a really fascinating psychological drama in addition to an extremely tense and sexually rich scene. And I think it's important to note that the dance scene was set to the vitamin C orchestra version of Dancing on My Own by Robin, which was amazing. When they started playing dancing on my own, I literally wrote down, how dare you? Like, that song just has so much, I think, like, emotional resonance. It's been used in a lot of movies at this point. it stayed popular for so long.

And a really long life. It also lagged it coming out. Yeah. It's one of the great pop songs of all time. It had a really good moment in season one of girls. Like I just think of it as like a like when Marnie and Hannah danced together in their apartment. I just like it's such a meaningful song. And I have to say I loved this rendition.

And I thought it was so fitting for these two people who are set on not being in love with each other to be dancing to it. It was so great. When you think about the song and you think about the lyrics, it's like it could be from any one of their points of views, like including Edwina, who is like in the corner watching you kiss her. You know, like it could be any one of them feeling that like the true sadness of this song at a different point in the story. But yeah, like how dare they play dancing on my own right as they finally come together to dance together? It was just, it's kind of a tragic moment. And like I said earlier, I'm, you know, that episode. So after that big dance, he sort of leaves the dance floor in a huff because he seems a little more willing to acknowledge,

a lot more willing, to acknowledge that there is something between them than Kate does. And he wants to follow it. He wants to, but he's also not willing enough to follow it to say it outright, to say, I want to marry you. Because he doesn't want to marry her. her. He wants to kiss her. He wants to be in love with her. But he said over and over that he only wants to marry someone that he's not in love with. He did the classic TV thing of tell me you don't love me instead of saying, I love you. He's like, tell me, tell me you hate me, I think is what he said. Yeah. You can put a fuckboy in better circumstances, but like you cannot just turn them not into a fuck boy. Yeah, seriously. That was, that was the, I think episode four,

is just a really good episode. It's a culmination of, of everything they're laying the foundation of in episodes one, two, and three. Being out at the countryside, the Bridgetown estate, having the whole ton there, a ball. That's when also Madame Delacqua puts the note in the dress. Like, everything kind of coalesces in episode four. And then it builds up to this really kind of exciting final 30 seconds where we know that there are some financial reasons for Edwina needing to get married. but she doesn't know.

And Kate is about to tell her that part of the reason why she must get married is for, like, for money reasons. And then Antony comes rushing out and interrupts her. And she's, at that point, Edwina has, like, given up hope that Anthony will propose. And Anthony comes rushing out and he fucking gets on one knee and our jaws drop. And those of us, Kate's everywhere, our hearts are broken. Right. And I think there's something else to that moment when she's about to talk to her sister.

that Kate seems to have also understood from that moment in Anthony, in the library with Anthony, that he's not going to propose to her sister because he is falling in love with her. And she says that to Lady Danbury, not that, but she says to Lady Danbury, I'm afraid that I've ruined this for my sister. And so in that moment, I think as much as she hates that she's ruined it for her sister because she loves her younger sister so much, there's also got to be like a small thrill of this isn't going to happen. There's still a chance for us to figure this out for her not to marry this guy that I'm falling in love with that will then be in my life forever. It's very Skyler sisters. I found myself thinking about the Skylar sisters a lot, this like, you know, sweet, perfect younger sister and this like older, fiery sister who's just sort of like watching this this relationship fall between her fingers because she loves her younger sister so much.

Yeah, and so I think Kate's heart probably broke when he went, even though she would probably pretend that it didn't when he went down on that knee. And my heart definitely broke because Juliet, I do not see a way out of this. I feel really bad for Edwina. I like Kate. She's radiant. I need to know Simone Ashley's skincare routine because she looks incredible. But I feel really bad for Edwina. It's tough.

It's a, their relationship certainly will take a hit from this. There's no doubt about it. Yeah. That's a pretty big change from the book is that things do not get this far with Edwina and Antony. They don't get engaged. And they also don't have as much chemistry. I mean, there's not, you know, palpable chemistry, like sexual chemistry between Edwina and Anthony in the show. But there is a real friendship.

And they spend a lot of time together. And she is so charming. And yeah, I agree. I feel really bad. And I'm just pretty nervous. Like they gave us such a juicy episode and episode four with all these moments between Kate and Anthony. And I simply do not know how these lords and ladies are going to find their way out of this.

Well, we will find out in episodes 5 through 8, which Jody and I will be back to discuss next week. Thank you all so much for listening. For more of Jody and I, I would say check out Ringar Dish. Thank you to Sasha Aschel for producing this episode. And we will talk to you soon.