The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Cape Fear’ Episode 9: Risk It for the Biscuit

Episode Date: July 24, 2026

Jo and Rob get down in the swamp for the penultimate episode of ‘Cape Fear.’ Intro (0:00)Mailbag check-in (2:08)What is going on with Anna? (5:47)Tom’s burner phone (9:17)Timeline (11:07)Cady family showdown (12:29)Max’s hospital stay (14:42)The biscuit incident (17:31)Crystal and Anna (23:31)Max’s play on Tom (32:00)Max and Noa (34:07)The boat (35:48)What’s left for Zack? (39:19)Finale hopes (40:31)The conspiracy board (41:52)Outro (46:57) Email us! [e-mail] Follow us on IG and TikTok! Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Prestige TV Podcast and so much more! Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob MahoneyProducers: Devon Renaldo and Kai GradyStudio Production: Jacob CornettAdditional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gregus believes in the art of living in choosing the pleasurable over the practical. It's why we craft our premium vodka in France using pure spring water from Gensack. And why you hear the celebratory pub of our quirk, reminding us to make every martini cocktail count. So go on and make every moment count because there's no better time than now. Gregus, make time wait. Hello, welcome back to allegedly the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Jordan Robinson.

I'm allegedly Rob Mahoney. And we're here today to talk to you about the pen ultimate episode of Cape Fear titled The Scar. Which scar do you think? Two prominent scars inside this episode. At least, at least the physical ones. What about emotional scars? We have many. Psychological scars.

After this season. Narrative scars. Yeah, they're really trying to patch some things over and up and make it all work. Yeah. I don't know, man. But as usual, I'm having fun with it. Okay, so we are going to talk about episode nine, and then we're going to go to the board

and do our usual cork board madness. Got to say, get you see Amy's sort of like full murder wall? Did you feel intimidated? It was a real hard look in the mirror. I'm not going to laugh. What have we become? Should we slosh some like tomato soup on our board before it's all said none?

For the finale, we really should. Well, it's going to stink to high heaven in here. We're going to leave that tomato soup board in here way too long. But I have many thoughts about Amy. board. I want to reserve them when we get to that section. But it was harrowing. I think just confronting the fact that we are but Amy. Have I ever told you about the time that I was in a haunted house in college? No. Okay. And they had me do. I was, I did Regan from the Exorcist. Oh, you were participating in the haunted house. Yeah. And it was all like for like tabloes from horror movies or

whatever. So there were like people under the bed and like shaking the bed and I was just like on the bed screaming obscenities of people for great time. But they did put pea soup on me. And it and it was on me for like hours and that's one of the worst things that ever happened to me. So I'm just to say like old soup should not sit around. That's a, that's a truism. I think that's a bold claim, but very accurate. I can't disagree. Should not sit around. Now new soup. I found new soup. Yeah. Old soup on your person, very bad. Okay. This is Cape Fear. We didn't get a ton of emails, I should say, just because we've been like recording a little bit out of the loop so people are not quite keeping pace of this, I think.

but we did get a lot of emails before this episode aired. It obviously actually hasn't even aired yet. Of our listeners saying, hey, we think Consent King himself, creepy Luke, is AI Slopsun. Yeah. Now inside this episode, we learned some things about Luke. But where are you on who Luke actually is? I think we got it laid out pretty clearly. I kind of am inclined to believe on face that he is max.

and Crystal's son. Okay. Which would make him not AI Slop Son Adam, but AI Slop Son Adam's half brother slash cousin. Special. That's that kind of show. That's very House of the Dragon. But my question, I guess, is,

I guess, is there any way in which he is AI Slop Son? Because we got some interesting emails of people being like, wouldn't it be interesting for the AI Slop version of Adam to have been presented to us this whole time? Yes. Just so that, like, we could meet, like. A slightly different one. Kind of left in the oven too long.

long person. Wow. It's a little melty? Yeah. I mean, he has a similar kind of wavy hair. Yeah. There's no doubt. Yeah.

But that could just be half brotherly slash cousinly wavy hair. True, true, true. I do have that question, though, about the scar, right? It's the tell of this episode that, oh, you know, Anna saw this baby with the scar, then sees Luke with the scar, one to one. This is the baby. But also, we don't really get any explanation as the meaning of that scar or where it came from. Could it have been that he was pulled out of his dying mother's womb?

Ripped untimely. from the womb, as Shakespeare might say. Wow. And maybe that scar came from the procedure that was required to save his life? I don't know. Okay. So would it be interesting if he is AI Slop Son? Everything is interesting on this show. Would it be, would it like sort of justify the existence of A.I. Slop Son, if like the whole reason A. A.I. Slop Sun has been there is disorder. So that they could spring this other son on us. It's a trick question. There is no justification for AI Slop. I see what you're doing.

And you're trying to paint me into a corner here as being pro AI on this podcast. And I won't fall for it. Okay, fair enough. Someday I'll get you. I am pro-luck, though, who is pro-consent. So, you know, by the transitive property. He pistol-wips the shit out of Ron Perlman in this episode. I thought he was very sweet. And don't pretend Ron Perman didn't have it coming. Okay. Did you like this episode of television? Rononey? I really don't know. Huh. This felt messier than most, despite the fact that in some ways it was more focused than most. You know, we're kind of on very straight plot lines for these respective characters. Some of them are kind of boxed in in prison. Some of them are boxed in until they escape from psychiatric care.

Oh, you got exactly what you wanted. I kind of did, but kind of didn't. Zach's escaped. Zach escape, I did want. Yeah. I just was hoping Nevea and Natalie would have a little bit more of a dance. And they didn't. They danced. They danced. But then they quickly separated. Yeah. The hall monitor came in or the chaperone came and was like, no, please, please separate. Go to your respective walls. And you, by the way, you're out on bail. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just wanted, why can we get two episodes of them kind of figuring each other out,

manipulating each other? Remember that the season of Justified where Ava was just in prison the whole time? Yes. It was bad. So maybe we don't want that. I didn't ask for a season. I asked for two episodes. Okay, fair enough.

And instead of five minutes in prison. I really liked this episode. Yeah. Because it was a huge Juliette Lewis showcase. That party is. And she's just like fantastic in this episode and in this show in general. She's really wonderful. To the point where I found myself coming to Chris,

Crystal's defense a lot. Oh, yeah. Anna's whole energy here. Hashtag Team Crystal. What is going on with Anna? Just coming out of the gate, insulting her, later calling her trash, like, calling her crazy to her face? Well, she's trying to provoke her when she calls her trash. It's trying to provoke information out of her.

No, definitely. It's an interrogation tactic. And also, Crystal, like, took her gun from her. They just, like, I was thrown off from the very beginning with the whole, like, I am Team Crystal. there's really no doubt about it. Team Anna is a tough team to be on at this stage. If you want to get into the like too dumb to live category, I think it's Anna all the way down.

Every decision she makes in this episode is, as usual, pretty baffling. I don't know. No? I'm on the opposite side of this where like, oh, and by the way, we heard from our boss Bill Simmons. Guess what? He's in on Amy Adams on the show. This is the one that got him.

This is what brought him back around. Famous Amy Adams Skepick Bill Simmons. He's like, she's really so. settled into something here in the back half of Cape Fear. And here I think this is not my favorite Amy Adams performance overall. No, no, no. You love nocturnal animals. Okay, first

of all, if you show me Amy Adams in any context and then a dark highway road as we do to open this episode and you expect me not to think of nocturnal animals, I don't know what you're talking to. I was kind of thinking about Anna in this episode is almost like a drunken master-esque, like she needed to be trashed in order to like,

she gets a lot of good detective work done. Does she not? First of all, drunken master is wild. For off the wagon, Anna. But maybe she should be drunk and she's better at it when she's drunk. She's definitely a little looser. I just, again, the whole energy of let the devil in the door, Anna, I am trying to reconcile and trying to understand it.

I don't know how I feel about it. It doesn't seem like a great idea, but does she get away? Yes. Did she get, did she find a USB in a haystack? She does. But then she took it into the water. Well. She soaked that drive.

Don't soak your drives unless you intend to destroy them. Okay. I don't know about the structural integrity of that particular USB drive, you know? But I just think it was so funny that she's like, huh, I'm looking in the sea of boxes. Oh, there it is. Yeah. A USB drive. I found it.

See, I think she took advantage. And it's definitely the only USB drive that's down there and it definitely has exactly what I want on it. Again, you had a missed opportunity, though. Like, show us some other weird stuff in that box. You know, I want to know what's in there other than like some dusty old folders and a USB. drive. There's got to be something strange in there. I just think that like when she and Crystal go to Amy's house where Amy died

and Crystal's like, um, should be going there? I don't know. And then Crystal's looking at a very squirly fashion at the box and Anna's like, oh, that's the box. Like, I actually think Anna's doing a lot of great work in this episode. And when Crystal's like, go down into the hole, that's what you're

fine, what you're looking for. And she's like, you go down there. Like, I actually think Anna is smarter than usual in this episode. That point I can't argue. She does not go into the hold unprovoked. Yeah. I think her whole plan, as I understand it, is... She also escapes with just like some cleaning spray.

Is that what that is? I think some kind of aerosol. I think it's got to be more intense than cleaning spray. Like Roach killer? Like rust remover from the boat engine or something like that. Look, she gets out of the pickle that she finds herself in. I just think maybe you don't get in the pickle. If your plan is more elaborate, then show up with gun, talk to Crystal, yada, yada,

save your family. I think she got a lot of good information. and what good did Tom do in this episode from his jail cell? Oh, not a lot. He burnt that Nokia burner phone all the way down to 0% battery, making a lot of... It didn't have a lot. Here's my question. Rob, if you were to find yourself in a prison cell and the demonic presence that's been haunting you and your family smuggles in a burner phone to taunt you, a Nokia, and then you then were like, oh, I'm going to use this to make a bunch of phone calls.

Right. who would you be able to call? Who's number? Who's number? Do you know? I would only know like four relevant numbers. My parents' numbers. My wife's number.

My brother's number. That is it. So I would spend the last 5% just playing snake. Yeah. Let's use our time wisely. How do you think Nokia feels about being sort of like the official burner phone at this point? The official burner phone.

They went from the top. They were like everyone has Nokia to now it's only smuggled into jail cells. But in this case, of the wrongfully accused. True. But also considering suicide, at least on some level. I was just watching him call, like, the psychiatric clinic. How did he know? He's just calling everyone.

I was like, you know everyone's number? Can you call the operator and they could connect you? Does 411 work in prison? Does it still work, period? I genuinely don't know. Can't get internet on that phone. What a world we live in. It's true.

Okay, let's go back to where. I liked this episode. Yeah. Anna shows up at Bluff's Point. the boat's not there. She's wearing a great suede jacket. It's true. I'm considering putting the suede jacket on the board.

It is incredibly good piece of wardrobe. What plot relevance do you think it'll have? Will it come back? Well, here's what I'll say. She's wearing the blue. We love to track blue on the show. Of course. She's wearing the blue.

And then, like, the whole Katie family is wearing a lot of blue, but she's got this sort of, like, brown on top of it. What does that mean? I don't know. But it means something because it's Cape Fear. I have a question for you on the timeline. Please. She leaves dead of night.

Mm-hmm. She arrives there. It seems like sunrise to me when she gets there, right? I think we established that it was taking like roughly four hours drive time from Savannah to Cape Fear. It was either sunrise or sunset, so it's sunrise, right? Got to be. Rosie Finger, dawn. As it's known.

As Homer would say. Yeah. Then she goes to the Katie household. We'll talk about that in a second. And then she goes to a bar. What time did she go to that bar? Oh, that bar is like 10. Yeah. I actually think it's like nine.

Nine. You know, it did say open seven days a week. It did. I was hoping to see the hours posted because I'm like, is this a 24-7 bar? Because she went, that was an early morning bar stuff. Well, it's clearly like kind of a biker bar situation. Sure. So open at 7 a.m.

Open 24 hours. I would believe it. She drinks there all day because she wakes up the next morning, I believe, on Crystal's boat. It's morning when she wakes up on Crystal's boat. Well, she drinks for an amount of time that, would then knock her out for however much time would require to wake up the next morning. Just impressive stuff from the drunken master.

Yeah, 24 hours combination, drinking, blacking out, being hauled to Crystal's boat or walking there and stumbling there for own volition-ish and then waking up there. That's a busy day. She goes to the Katie household. She sees Consent King Luke. Yep.

Bobby Katie. And good old Hester. How do you feel about Hester in this episode? How do you feel about her little crystal baby doll that she seems like she breast-sweeds? She sure does. I feel like I've seen a lot from kooky side characters in these sorts of stories.

You meet the relative, the friend, the source of information. They speak in riddles. They're talking backwards. They may be revealing a little too much at times where they would or other people would prefer they not. I've seen a lot from those characters

in many different texts. I have never seen one breastfeed a doll a single time. And so I think we have no choice but to salute Hester for innovation in this space. And Cape Fear for innovating in the space of prestige television. Have you ever seen that before? Not on television. Not at all. Okay.

No, no. Baby dolls in general. Yeah. Creepy. A baby doll that you think is your daughter. Charming? Charming. Oh, it goes to charming and then back around to creepy once you start breastfeeding it?

I think so. Okay. That's a trajectory. Were you never a doll child? I had like an army of Barbies. Okay. But not like a baby. Baby dolls are just like forever haunted to me.

And they like speaking of innovation, they're always creating very strange baby dolls that like will burp or pee or consume food. It's like we don't need them that true to life. No, absolutely not. I think that makes them only. creeper. We're really entering into an uncanny valley of baby dolling, and I'm here to put a stop to it. I actually don't know what the recent innovation in baby dolling has been. Yes, you do. No, because they were like wetting themselves in the 90s, so what are they doing now? They are like weird AI sentient machines. Like Furbys, but babies? Worse.

Tough. Really tough. Um, Luke, you know, intercedes so that Anna can leave. That's true. Again, once again, consent King Luke. Just being like, you go your way, we'll be fine. De-escalating. Yeah. I think he's... He's the coolest head in this story up until the moment he starts pistol whipping people. And as you said, I might piss a bit from Pearlland as well. Max is in the hospital. He's on a drip. Yeah.

We still have questions about whether or not Zach's taking his beds. But Max is on his meds in this moment and he sees the AI slop son and his ghost wife and says I have just a few things to do. Our Lady of Banks. And then I can join you, somebody says? So like, does he plan to die? Is that the idea? Yeah. He needs to torment the Bowden's a lot.

a little more. And then he wants to die. Agitate Tom, maybe kill one of Anna's kids, make her feel the pain that he felt. At this point, it's just an either-or. Both of those kids-

Taunt Tom into killing himself, murder both the children, then kill Anna once she is registered all of that, and then die. That's the to-do list. No, no, he doesn't, I don't think he wants to kill Anna. Oh, live with the suffering.

Live with the guilt, the suffering, the responsibility, the torment of not being able to do anything to improve her circumstances. I think that's all part of the plan. Meanwhile, he's piecing out to hang out with AI Slop's son and his b-bangged wife. Steve, A.I. Slop son. Zach is still seeing him.

How do you feel about this? Is Zach on his meds, off his meds? What is he doing? Everything with Zach is very confusing. Yeah. I think he is off his meds, or at least they're not working. It's not the right prescript. It's not the right dosage, right?

Crystal's fine. She's clearly quite adjusted. She's doing fine. She's doing better than she's ever done before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She grew up in a crate. she was then abused presumably by Max. And now she's at least independent.

She's on her own. She's trying to live a life on her little houseboat. Grew in a crate. I mean, didn't she? I think it had some crate time sometimes. I think that's too much. I would argue, you may disagree, Joe. Any crate time is too much crate time for a child.

That depends on the child, I think. Probably does. All right. Do you think Zach himself broke himself out? Or do you think Max broke him out? I do think he broke himself out. How are you feeling about that? Where is he going?

fuck if I know on that But he wants to go fishing He does want to go fishing Maybe he'll just go to Cape Fear on his own Honestly An end of this season in which all the characters Independently decide to go to Cape Fear River I would support it

But I just think Max is way too busy Like he's trying to track down Anna That's his prime concern Well he's sitting outside of the hospital Is it? At one point when he's talking to Tom And he's like And where's that he's three windows

over on the third floor of the... Up the second stairs. The finger scampering up the stairs. Tremendous work. So he knows exactly. I thought he was like sitting outside of the institution when he was talking to Tom on the phone. He absolutely knows where Zach is supposed to be.

I don't know if that was outside the building or not. I kind of took it as he's taking it as a given that Natalie's over here locked up. Zach is over here kind of locked up. Let me track down Anna with singular focus while I can. And Tom, we're just going to taunt him basically in the meantime. Speaking of Natalie and Nevea in prison, do you want to talk about the Biscuit incident? I mean, they are the currency in prison. Are they not? I don't know, but the soy sauce, the Kikamon soy sauce.

Okay, that's real. I think a lot of- Tell me more. You are so excited about that. Not in prison. I just think a lot of people out there would be very surprised to learn that the secret sauce of their favorite restaurant or the like... Is Kikomon. Choice proprietary aoli is really just Kikamon-Soy sauce and mayo mixed together with like lemon juice. Um, Aoli often has soy sauce in it? It can.

Oh, okay. I mean, AOL is just any variation of mayonnaise. Well, I know. Yes. Okay. I just think, when I think of like Aoli, yes. I think of just like lemon plus mayo.

Is that an incredibly white of me? How Caucasian of me. It is a little bit. Here's the thing. Quite white. Manay is never a condiment on its own, right? Like, it needs help. It needs a lot of help to become aoi,

to become a proper, like something you would actually use or did. What? Like a tuna salad. You wouldn't just put mayo in a tuna salad? Joe, what? Okay. You're just putting just tuna and mayo and calling it good? Yeah.

No. Yeah. No. Yeah. You're sounding a lot like Neveo with her pouches of tuna right now, and I'm very concerned for you. You think that's a fish-based crime if I just put tuna and mayo together? I think all... I just don't like relish.

So, like, a lot of people put, like, relish or celery or whatever, and I just don't like that in tuna salad. So I do just enjoy tuna and mayo together. I think the first fish-based... based crime is tuna salad. And the second fish-based crime is whatever you're doing with tuna salad. Okay. So you're just like not worth talking.

What about egg salad? Yeah, but it has mustard in it. It has dill and it has other things. You're right. You're right. I was proud of Natalie in this episode. For sure. Okay?

She refused to give up the biscuit as a twerk. Yeah. Well, literally, but not metaphorical. Yeah. Then gave up the biscuit, strategically gave up the biscuit when she needed to with a plan. And this is all we've been asking for from the book. It's like a fucking plan. A little foresight.

Yeah. And she knew about the burner. Yeah. I have some tips from Nevea. If you want to secretly have a burner cell phone conversation, just standing facing the corner of the open yard is not how I would do it personally. What do you think? With your hand to the phone to your ear. Yeah, yeah.

Not the most subtle. No, no, no. It doesn't surprise me that the guards are asleep at the wheel at this particular facility, but some other inmate is going to see you, even if it's not Natalie. Right. And then Natalie, so gets into the room first. finds the burner in the, like, red book that it's sitting there in. Do you know what it was? Not the Bible, but what was it?

It's not the Bible. Fish-based crimes? Hilariously. It is a copy of how to win friends and influence people. Chef's Kiss. Come on. This show. That's what I'm saying.

Every time I'm, like, mildly annoyed by something, I'm like, goddamn. They really do. Okay. Gives her the biscuit and then gets, like, just clumsily leased Nevea into some confession time. Really, I felt really disappointed. and in Nevea. Wow.

For wanting human connection? In her level of intelligence in this episode. Do you think she's more easily accessible because she's like doesn't have access to the scopolamine? So she's like less under the thrall. What do you think? I think she's probably hit a bit of a end point in terms of Max's natural influence. Like what he can convince her out of the love of his fatherly heart.

I'm trying to think he's maybe not a good dad. Oh, okay. And I think she may be on to that. But he said, I love you so much, and he sounded like he meant it, you know. It has to be his, like, I say this is not of Javier Barre d'am, but Max Cady's least convincing performance on record, what he is saying to Nevea over the phone and the, like, sleepy, unimpressed way in which he does.

It doesn't even think he needs to work at it anymore. I mean, deeply into Tommy So Territory on that phone call. And so I think it is just like she was hoping to have some kind of actual connection with her father by now. It has not come to pass. She's like, I guess I'll fuck my sister instead. As, Kate Fear Rules. Well, she doesn't know.

Does she? They had a conversation about it. I didn't get you pregnant, did I? Oh, you're right. They actually did. Yeah. They put the incest right out on the table and neither one of them was deterred by it whatsoever. Well, I think Natalie at least had like an end game here.

I'll fuck my sister to get this recording. She didn't stop for a second. There was no moment of hesitation. Like, I barreled straight into incest. Even if you are going to manipulate sexually your sibling, I would think a lot of people would have just like a little gag reflex moment. Natalie is built different. Prison changes you.

It changes you, but they both found a prison girlfriend real fast. Like just stumbling at the cliches these two. Did you feel for Nevea when Natalie got out and Noah was there to pick her up? I actually, I would say I felt for Nevea on the call. And some of it is like the performance and where this character is are just like so, like for lack of, I say it's empathetic, like pitiful. Like, it's just just a sad moment for this character who has gone to these incredible lengths.

And she clearly wants to stop short of actual murder, but is being like egged on ever so lightly by her dad who does not care about her. I think what's interesting is like, earlier in the season, you and I thought Nevea was someone who was, like, quite eager to murder. She just, like, had that knife out just, like,

seemed like she really wanted to murder. So is it that she objects to murder in general or is that she objects to murdering Natalie, her sister, who she's come to care for, in a biscuit way. Yeah, see, at first I was kind of wondering, is Nevea reverse playing Natalie in this kind of encounter moment? Like, are they both trying to get closer to each other,

spy versus spy style? A deadly tango. This is what I was thinking. But I think everything we see after the fact in the, you know, post-prison nut clarity is Nevea at her most vulnerable that she's been all season? Is that not a thing? You heard me say in a biscuit way and you were like, I got a one-over with post-prison nut clarity.

you're very special. Thank you. All right. Let's go back to Crystal and Anna. I love this dynamic. Crystal fucking hates Anna. Okay, so what we learn about Crystal, which I don't think it was incredibly clear before this episode or entirely clear, is that, well, she killed Melissa. That's interesting information.

What role did she have in all of the Amy stuff? I actually don't feel like we know that full story, but she was friends with Amy. Did she serve Amy up in some way to Max? Could have been. Or at least been his kind of boots on the ground there. But no matter what, between like Amy and Melissa, you know, because earlier in the season, we heard her say, like, I warned them about him.

And I took that to me and like, he fucked me up. So I don't, as a girl's girl, I don't want any other woman to go through that. That does not seem to be what's going on with Crystal here. Crystal is like he's mine. I'm warning you. Yeah. back off ladies.

They didn't seem to take the advice. Called Anna Princess. Okay, here's one of the worst writing in this episode, I think, which is like, do you learn that from your sorority sisters? And then Anna goes, maybe I taught their boyfriends and their boyfriends taught them. This is the weird energy I was talking about. I was like, what is this? What is that?

Can I blame on writing more than anything else? Can I single out some of the best writing in this episode? Oh, please. I mean, we moved on maybe too quickly from Nevea and Natalie, but he told me to break into your house and spike the tea with that. acid and to seduce your brother and make him bite off his own toe. I just sometimes have to sit back and appreciate that this is a line from an actual show we are watching and covering in great detail. And that's just a factual statement.

Sometimes when someone's recording you need to get very explicit and plain spoken about the crimes that you committed. But also, why the toe? Like, what was the point of specifically this kid needs to bite off his own toe? We've been talking about that toe all season. It's such like a horrifying thing to have happened. Oh, for sure. I think it's a great idea that that Max I just thought maybe it was more incidental. Let's maim them. Let's maim the trials. I guess. But just like specifically, he needs to think of a baby carrot and bite off his own toe. Think of a baby carrot at gmail.com for all of your Cape Fear questions, concerns, theories.

Also, if you're with me on the tuna salad front, it really doesn't need much more than tuna and mayo, honestly. I just can't support it. And it's like a really nice piece of toasted, like weedy, odie bread. That's it. No, thank you. That's the energy. I would say there's a third confirmation in this episode. It's one that Crystal is Luke's mom.

at minimum and that probably Max is his dad. Two. I think Max is his dad, definitely. But you don't think you'd think Crystal might not be his mom? Again, what about this Melissa theory? Maybe that's a half confirmation. But that Crystal did kill Melissa. Yeah.

We feel confident about that. She seemed like she can best do it. It seemed to be everything but at least. She didn't deserve that kind of life. And third, that Crystal, as we suggested in previous episodes, is the Lila from the Strz. story that Max has been telling earlier. Yeah, Max got really inventive and was like, instead of Delilah, I'll call her Lila.

Good sleuthing work from Anna. I don't know about that. She's rifling around. Like, once again, Crystal loves to keep all of her stuff in just like a little slot pile on a surface, right? We have our stuff on a slop board. Are we any better? Absolutely. There are categories.

There are pushpins and their string. This is just merely slopped onto the table And Anna sort of rifles through She does And finds exactly the piece of information she needs Ah, Delilah, she must be Lila I have this written down Tell me if this is anything

I think you're really underestimating Anna in this episode Am I? Yeah This is what I have written down Hey there, Delilah, what's it like in Cape Fear City Anna's snooping in your boat And now she knows your crystal Katie Yes, it's true

Is that anything? Is that a thing? Joe, you got to give me something What you got? Are you going to finish it out? Can I just say that like that came on when I was in the sprouts the other day? And then it's such like grocery store music now. Hey there, Delilah. And I was just like like Pavlovian like muttering the lyrics to myself.

It's all you. I was in the produce section. Like I couldn't help myself. I was mesmerized. But I was like, oh, this is what it's like to like when we were younger, walked around a grocery store and it was just music like music playing. Yes. our parents would be like, that's the power of love, you know, but it's playing my teeth now.

So did you feel like lulled into a state of like capitalistic coercion? Like because you're muttering these lyrics. Oh, Josie and the Pussycat style? I think. Like a little bit of hypnosis so that you'll, you know, grab the thing you don't eat off the shelf. I did. I did. Alfonso?

You got to get the good mangoes. I'm telling you. That was incredible work from you. Thank you. You're welcome. Amy's stepmom Brenda had a pet raccoon. And I just think that's important piece of information that we learned in this episode. Rest in peace, too.

Yeah, yeah. And then I just like everything we learn about Crystal doing donuts and the pigly-wiggly. Her, the guard that she did because she's hot and crazy. Like, I got in a fight with a window. That's how I got this scar. Is that how she got that scar? I don't know. Unclear.

I mean, I just think Juliette Lewis is like every single line delivery is really, really fun and exciting. This is my problem with Anna as a counterpoint who I think we've had frustrations with throughout the season for various reasons. She's a bit mayonnaise for you. She's a little bit mayonnaise. I mean... And you want a spicy aiole?

You want to mix that kicka man in. I want an entirely different condiment. I'm not sure that whatever condiment Crystal Katie is makes sense with whatever you're trying to make happen. But if you had a whole Crystal breakout episode, if half of this season was just following Crystal around, I would have loved it.

This season needed way more Crystal Katie. Yes. Like I understand the like, fun surprise of holding Juliet Lewis back and then just like surprising into letting us. But once we had her, like we should have held on to her because she's gold. And this is what happens with, this is what happened with yellow jackets. Juliette Lewis was like the lifeblood of yellowjack. One of.

There's some, a few others. But like she left that show. Just went all the way downhill after Juliette Lewis left. If you have the Lewis, you use the Lewis. That's what I'm saying. Self-explanatory. Yeah. Everything about the weirdness of that character, what she's bringing to the performance,

even the physical parts of it where when she walks around, she has a weird, like, wispy thing she's doing with her arms. I'm just like, I just want to know everything about this woman. And I also just don't know how much of that is Crystal and how much of that is just Juliette Lewis. Unclear. Julia Lewising around. Can we talk about Amy Brancato's conspiracy board? I would love to. Which tomato sauce or not.

Aspirational. There's just a lot there. Oh, freeze free of Mahoney? Were you on the case? Of course, I was on the case. Well, we see, we seen glimpses of it earlier in the season when Amy shoots herself in the head twice. It's how the tomato soup got there in the first place. It's, we needed to see the origin story of the tomato soup.

At that time, we criticize some of the headlines, which are like, guilty with an exclamation point. Or my least favorite that we see here, prosecution lays out KD murder case. No. Speaking of mayonnaise. I have a new favorite, though. Has anyone ever told you you're writing this mayonnaise? Like, did an editor ever be like, you got to, you got to keep him on up. that headline is a little mayonnaise.

First of all, I'm insulted. We've all written a single mayonnaise headline in our lifetime. I mean, I'm sure it's happened. Yeah. But I would hope that the editors I'm working with are kind enough to not say that to my face. Editor is not notoriously kind. Would you like to hear headline that is not mayonnaise? Please.

My absolute favorite on this collage, I really love it. I think it's going to need to go on the board at the end of this episode. It simply says swamp law. We've been barking up so many of the wrong trees. Swamplaw at gmail.com. Well, first of all, like, how do we get Max Katie, like, a restraining order? How do we keep him away from the Bowden kids? Like, what is he tried for in a conventional legal system?

But this is Swamp Law. Yeah. It's like main justice. The rules are all different. And I feel like maybe Anna is a little overmatched when it comes to Swamp Law. Okay. How does the Gatorbong play into Swamp Law, do you think? Oh, they're legal, first of all.

That's not an accessory. Okay. I've already asked you this burner phone question. If you're leaving a noose in the cell of your enemy, is it a nice fluffy bed sheet news? What are we doing? I guess we're working with what we have. Yeah. What's the alternative?

I just found that, and I'm sorry to critique the fine work of the inmates of this particular establishment, but I found that noose to be quite like sort of like fluffy and cozy looking. I think we needed to shred the sheets a bit more and get something that looked a bit more menacing. than that particular news. Well, I would say this. One. Because you're not looking to cradle your neck and comfort.

Find Egyptian cotton when you're, when you're, you know, being driven to suicide. But you are looking for plausibility, right? And so it's like, if this man did kill himself,

wouldn't he, like, he's not going to do it with something he doesn't already have in his room. So yeah, the only options. Shred up the sheets. Does that actually change anything?

Yeah, you get like a sort of like a ropeier, nodier sort of situation. Maybe. But does Tom Bowden know how to do that? Tom Bowden doesn't know how to do anything He really doesn't Although I would argue

This whole ploy from Max Do you think he actually thinks it might work Nudging Tom to the point of hanging himself? Yes, because I think he thinks Tom is a beta cuck That can be talked into killing himself He talked to Amy Bernkato into killing himself Also, what's possible right now is that Max is just overplaying his hand across the board

I think that may be true And I wondered based off of his reactions If he actually cared if Tom did it or not or if it was just to kind of antagonize him a bit? Just kind of like... Yeah, just a bit of fun. I'm bored. I'm looking for Anna.

Let me do this. But if it was intended to work, I know Tom idolized his brother. Clearly, he is playing into this idea that was explored earlier in the season of like Tom needs control, right? He wants like something he can do to save his family.

And Max is kind of pushing him in that direction. I just think given his relationship with his brother and his brother's suicide, why would he visit that trauma on his own family by then killing himself? It just doesn't really add up as something that might actually work. Here's what I'll say about Max Katie. He cares enough to find out about the brother

when I don't even think Anna knows about what happened with the brother. Wow. You're saying Max is the truest partner that Tom has ever had. You know, bars and hell, but here we are. The Max and Noah scene. Yeah. I was worried for a second that Max was going to kill every black character on this show. And I was like, please don't.

But Noah survives. She's just sort of like, Fuck you. Yeah. And she survives the encounter. She gets to... Did you think she was going to make it out of that room alive? I thought she was.

Really? Okay. I was worried. The door was closed. I just don't think Max is feeling the need to act less and less, right? Like, he's more just menacing here than outright lying. But I don't think he's to the point of killing people in offices with lots of witnesses around. I don't know.

I just, like, we're in the end game now. I feel like anything goes. But she made it out. She was not intimidated. No, not a bit. He got the information he needed anyway. He did leave. her with a you look beautiful kissy face moment, which I thought was peak Bardam.

Bardem is just bringing it week to week, moment to moment, to moment, scene to scene. But yeah, I think Max is a character. Just the fact that he is here in the first place, he's getting desperate, right? Like he is trying to figure out how to track down Anna. Nevea was supposed to squeeze Natalie. I guess did squeeze Natalie. Did not work as far as the information gathering goes. Right, because Natalie squeezed Neveo instead.

I think they kind of squeezed each other. They sure did. He tried going at Noah here. He gets nowhere. Fortunately, Anna's in a very convenient place with lots of other people to tell him where to go. So, although that ends up on the moment where Anna says to Crystal, you don't have anything he wants.

And then Crystal's like, uh-oh, I got you though, girly. You know what I mean? This is your sleuth, Anna? She does a really good job. Your crack detective? She gets away. That was like a real biting fantasy layer of sarcasm from you. I didn't enjoy it.

She gets the USB. she gets away. She does. Well, she knows Max's weakness. Water. He can't swim. Jump in the water. I don't think,

I don't know if he even sees her. Like, I don't think so. Yeah. She's off the back of the boat, right? And he's too distracted by the chuckle-fuck members of his family and what they're doing at the front of the boat. Well, one of them is blind and angry and waving around a gun and pistol whipping his father. Yeah.

So there's a lot happening. Yeah, there's a lot going on. But yeah. Anna swims away. I don't know. She gets a lot of information. She finds out who the real killer was. And she gets away.

I think Anna did a great job in this episode. I don't think River Cartwright on Slow Horses could do any better. I'll tell you that much right now. Well, famous fuck up River Cartwright. If the point is that Anna could be a slow horse or beat a slow horse. I think she could definitely beat a slow horse. And the bar is where the bar is. Yeah.

She does get a knife through her hand, though. A fish knife. Okay. Why a fish knife more than anything else is tough for you to see. Well, they just took it off the table with the fish go. With the fish guts. That's gut straightened to your hand. Like not just a fish knife, but a fishy knife.

Yes. A lot of fish-based crimes in this episode. A lot. I mean, well, we get the very menacing, like, pile of fish heads when Anna rolls up. And it's like, nothing good is going to happen once you see the pile of fish. Correct. Then she offers Anna a beer from the cooler that also just has a bunch of dead fish in there, as you would.

Got to keep them on ice. A nice crisp morning beer. And morning fish. Yeah. I just love that the opening credits when Anna, like, wakes up in the boat and the Cape Fear sort of like logo goes out or whatever. It's just like, Crystal's just like unbothered

having a beer and catching some fish on the side of the dock. It's true. Just living our life. Can I give one note on that scene though? Oh, please. Why can't the boat be a drift? Why can't we be on the water?

I was sort of hoping it would be on the, when we did like the pull out, I was hoping we would be Etsy. I know it's not no way out. And by Etsy, I mean a river. Yeah, because clearly it's a river so you could just jump out and swim to the shore. But I feel like just it's on the dock.

Yeah. It maybe gives, it takes away some of like the charge that you're getting. in that moment. That's true. Settle down, son, you're going to get some crate time. As you mentioned, you think zero crate time is what Luke should have received in his lifetime. It doesn't seem to be the case.

Yeah. A secret son. I don't know. How do you, like, this is a really interesting development, especially since, like, earlier in the episode he was introduced as, like, just a kid we have watching the dogs. Yes. So why, if he's just, they're hiding him because he's Max's son. That presumably. And if Max knows that he has a son, he'll get weird about it.

But does he know? No, I'm just saying that's the reason to hide and lie about his identity. Yeah, I'm just not so certain that Max doesn't already know. And, frankly, I think it's a little unclear when Anna does call him to say, I figured it out. I know who did the murder. Also, you have a secret son. You're supposedly given up for adoption. Never happened.

He's right here at your father's house the whole time. I mean, Bardem gives this, like, kind of sly smile that's either. Anna, you're wildly off base or like just like finding another way to toy with her with this particular story. Oh, I already knew that. Yeah, like maybe kind of amused that she's putting things together. So I really don't know what's true or what's not from that perspective at this point. But I agree with you.

It probably does make the most sense in terms of narrative closure for Luke to be Adam. I just, I don't know if that's where we're headed. Is this a show for narrative closure? It doesn't seem like it. Only one more episode to find out. Anything we haven't talked about that you want to make sure we hit. I do want to circle back to Zach for a second. Oh, your favorite.

Well, I mean, always. I would like to put it to you. You know, you asked me, like, do I think he escaped from the facility? Did someone come and get him? Did Max come and get him? Like, what is there for him to do at this point? Like, we can put out the APB. Weird kid, four toes, strange vibe.

Nine toes, to be fair. Well, fair enough. Thinks he's AI slop, you know? Responds to Adam. Uh-huh. But, like, what is he up to? What would he be trying to do? Find Max?

I guess. I just can't. When Tom calls him on the burner Nokia. Yeah. And he's like, is it you? Right? That's a sort of like, have you broken the spell? Is it you?

And he's like, it is me. For the record, it's been like 24 hours. And I kind of believe that it is him. Yeah. But then he sees the AI Slop son. And so that's. Maybe shakes it loose. Settling.

I don't know. Yeah. It's also clear we should say that Zach does not know that his father has been accused of murder in his current in prison. No, he's like,

we're doing fine, y'all. We're missing you at home. Don't worry about the prison sounds you hear in the background. Made a new pitcher-ass team. A storm's still a brewing. Yeah. What else you want from the finale?

I need that tree to fall in the Bowden backyard. Oh, okay. I don't know if we're going back there, though. Is everything going to be pointing to Cape Fear River or is all the action going to be there?

That's a lot of characters to get up to Cape Fear River. It's true. I feel like the action has to split up a little bit. Or maybe everyone needs to come back to Savannah. And also we should say just in Cape Fear terms, based on the previous movies, I feel like there always is,

maybe this is a mild spoiler. So like if you don't want to hear anything about the movies, jump ahead like 30 seconds. But like there's always a kind of a big showdown around the house. And I feel like we haven't gotten that. Okay. So you want everyone back at the boat in...

I would like it. Homestead. Plus, I mean, very tasteful greenery around there, some great wallpapering. Also, you're telling me before we started recording that if you don't get to see Lexi in the finale, you're going to riot.

I'm a little upset that she just has been kicked to the curb. Yeah. Or maybe she's partnered her by now. Maybe it's all good for, honestly, if you're not appearing on Cape Fear and you live in Savannah, I think your life is going pretty great. Everything's going well for you. Do we need the detectives to come back and be involved in some way? Just glib it up?

They got to die, I would think. You think they need to die? They've been really bad at their jobs. I think and really like snide while being bad at their jobs. So the cops need to die. Yeah. The kids need to go in the crate. Any anyone else you want to point in any particular direction. And just mayo and tuna on a sandwich is great. Good

Lord. First Randy Newman and now this. Should we go to the board? Let's go to the board. All right. This is our second to last opportunity to put stuff on the board. I'm honestly sad about it. Not that we have room. It's looking great, honestly. I think it's some of the best work we've ever done. I really agree. I'm going to start off

Strong. It's the title of the episode. Big old scar. It's a big one. It's a big old scar. Not a lot of explanation on said scar. I don't think a fish knife made it. I really hope not. How about Amy Brancato's homemade tomato soup? It's all over her board. It's not on ours yet.

I hope it never will be. Probably should have said tomato bisque. Bisk is just inherently funnier than soup. That's so much grosser, though, somehow. Baby doll Katie. Did I misspell it? Don't worry about it. Baby doll Katie.

One other relic from the Katie family. The flash drive that is now river soaked and in no way should be functional. Waterproof? Question mark. I do not know of one. I don't know why you gave me this card because this was your beautiful turn of phrase. Thank you. Prison post nut clarity.

Well, I gave it to you because I took one of yours in turn, which is Natalie's Biscuit. A phrase we used more on this episode than I frankly feel comfortable with. Here's something we forgot to talk about, but Melissa's tacky heart necklace. Got to talk about it. That's important. It seems to be a clue in the swampedlaw case. Why do you think it's important? Was it the initial holding camera shot of it in the photograph or the residual, like the returns to it periodically every so often?

I just think if the story is this, if the story is that Max treated crystal like trash but treated Melissa like gold. And this is this fucking Claire's boutique necklace is what he's giving her. Costume jewelry. Yeah. Aspired better, you know? If you're out there courting your Max Katie, I promise you can do better. Do differently. Don't.

How about the many burner phones that are happening on the show? But I would say most importantly, the one that was Nevea's is now in Natalie's possession. I would think you would have a lot of texts and or messages from Max on it. Because this has to be just what transpired between them and prison, right? Oh, yeah. I guess it would only be from this visit. You're right. Not the earlier messages, which they might already have access to anyway.

Right, because she couldn't have brought that cell phone in with her. Yeah. We should also note on the flash drive that may be water soaked. Supposedly, Crystal has proof of Max doing crimes. Luring Amy into killing herself. Could be. I don't know exactly. But she said she has photo.

Oh, no, she has voice memos that were in Amy's possession. But that's what I thought it was like him nightly being like, kill yourself, kill yourself. Does that work? You do it long enough. I mean, you've already taught people to use guns on this pod. It's been a very educational experience. Be very careful with your power. Consider it for your children.

Or don't, because you will be subject to swamp loft. The arm of the, I was going to say have the gator, but their arms are quite short. Oh, okay. The snout of the gator is long. Are there any long-armed critters in the swamp? I mean, there's long bodies, you know? A lot of snakes out there. Oh, yeah.

Clearly the gators and the crocs will get you. Okay. Maybe a catfish. The gators and the crocs? I thought those were in two different, like, geographical locations. Well, Florida, we got gators for sure. Yeah. Where do the crocs live?

I think like South America. Wow. Maybe they got imported. Maybe they're an invasive species. Like maybe someone brought a crock. Oh, they're co-mingling with the alligator. We've gotten a lot of possum versus opossum emails from people. Yeah.

How would you sum them up? I would say this. And this is something I did already know. That a possum, a possum and a possum are two different animals. Sure. And I did know that. A possum is like, I think, Australian or New Zealand's animal, a completely different animal.

And that O possum or O possum is the American critter. Do I agree with you that most people call the American critter just simply possum? I do, but some people call it O'Possum and that is what I've learned from Arneumosum. So you're saying they're correct. I'm saying I'm right.

Drunken master, Anna Bowden. Put her on the case. She seems to be doing a better job than sober, Anna. I'm just not sure about that. But hey there, Delilah. Don't you worry about the distance? Okay, and that's the end of this podcast. We'll be back with the finale.

We might have something special cooking up for the finale. I'm unsure what we will see. Anything else you want to say, Rob, before we go? Simply nothing left. What can we say that the board is not already said for us? We do have post-Cap Fair plans. We've got some great plans of cooking. We also, I don't think I can officially announce it yet,

but I'll just say if you're in L.A., keep your eyes out. We'll be doing a live show in August in L.A. We can't quite announce what it is yet, but that's our first live show. Our first ever live prestige TV podcast. So if you're in L.A., you want to come out, hang out with us and hear us talk about television, perhaps with some other folks, then keep your eyes peeled because we should be doing that next month. So hopefully we can announce that officially soon. And thank you to Jacob Cornett, DeVernaldo, who, you know, zoomed in from across the country. And to Kai Grady and to Justin Sales, who's here in the office today.

And Cape Fear for keeping it. absolutely bad shit all the time. We'll see you soon. Bye.