The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Euphoria’ Season 2, Episode 1 Recap

Episode Date: January 10, 2022

Joanna Robinson and Nora Princiotti team up to break down the season opener of HBO’s ‘Euphoria.’ They discuss the state of the show in culture heading into this season before breaking down the first episode through the lens of each main character. Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Nora Princiotti Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From reviews to rankings, the big picture is all things movies. From in-depth analysis of the latest flick to sit-down interviews with some of the biggest movie stars and filmmakers on the planet, Sean Fennessee and Amanda Dobbins have got you covered. Check out The Big Picture on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies.

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joining me smeared in rave glitter and under a neon light. It's Nora Princiani. Hello, Nora. How are you? Hello, Joanna.

I am smeared in rave glitter and under neon lights on a daily basis. It's not just because we were here. Oh, that was for euphoria. No, this is my natural

resting state. Okay. Just constantly be glittered, be dazzled. Yes. Always. Amazing. We are going to be here every Sunday after a new episode of Euphoria to talk about the latest episode, break it all down, our highs, our lows, who needs a hug, who needs to go to jail?

We have a lot of strong opinions and thoughts about that. We are going to get into this particular episode, season one episode, season two, episode one. I actually don't have the episode title yet because HBO didn't put it out with the screeners. We're recording this a little bit in advance. I could not find the episode title anywhere. So untitled as of right now, but season two premiere of euphoria, written and directed by Sam Levinson. Before we get into all of that, what happened on New Year's Eve for these poor kids. We're going to take a step back, talk about our relationship with euphoria, sort of the long anticipation, the long period between the previous season and this season.

So let me just start with you, Nora, and say, tell you your euphoria feelings. Are you euphoric about this show? Oh, wow. So that is a loaded question because I am I am regularly euphoric about euphoria. And I also kind of had to like psych myself up to begin season two here just because my relationship with this show is that I think it is marvelously done and really compelling chiefly in the performances, but also in a lot of the choices and the aesthetic and just the stuff. stuff that they want to dig into, I also regularly find myself literally covering my eyes, closing my eardrums while I am watching this show. I will say I have a fairly low tolerance for on-screen, violence in particular, but also just like watching other people's trauma played out on screen is tough for me, generally. So this show is naturally kind of a tough sell.

sometimes it's very hard for me. Sometimes that happens in ways that I feel like are gratuitous and honestly unnecessary. Sometimes it happens in ways where it is making me feel something more than, you know, some other teen dramas that I have known and loved, but that don't delve into the same type of subject matter and maybe don't push you in quite the same ways. So a complicated relationship, but this is a show that I think is incredibly interesting and I'm incredibly excited to talk about with you and sort of. of, even for my own selfish purposes, just like emotionally get me through it on a weekly

basis because there are so many things that I really do love about the show. I'm really worried about these kids. We should talk. I mean, this is kind of a wild release schedule in that season one premiered in 2019. The finale was August 2019. The before times, as we like to call it, right? Approximately 600 million years ago. Right, exactly.

And then they were supposed to go into production season two. obviously COVID delayed a lot of things. And in that delay, they released two bridge episodes, one centering on Sandeya's character Rue, one centering on Hunter Schaefer's character, Jules that premiered December, 2020, January of this year. And now we're finally in season two. But it's been three years since those, these kids who are actually in their 20s, filmed the first season.

And it has been, you know, a couple years since we've been really in the day-to-day basis of euphoria. And a lot of, like, a lot has happened. Um, in between that time, Zendaya won an Emmy for season one of the show. The show got even, it was popular when it dropped and it got even more popular over this long pause as sort of like Zendaya's stock rose. Um, did you watch Euphoria when it first aired? Did you catch up with it afterwards? Like, what, what's your, what's your relationship there? I didn't watch it. So I watched the first two episodes of, of season one. I think it was the first two. Um, right as they aired. And, you know, that was, that was an example of sort of my tortured relationship

with this show. I stopped for a while because if you think about the first two episodes, you don't know the characters. You're not as far into the story. So you're not invested in the things that I think the show does so well yet. And it was honestly, it felt like too much for me. But then it got so much buzz. It got so much praise. There were so many people talking about how much the show had to offer that I gave it another go. And I'm trying to remember how much later that was. It wasn't, I didn't pause for two too long, but I stepped out of it for a little bit and then went back in and probably by the, I don't know, third, fourth episode. By midway through season one, I was, I was really into it and finished the whole thing pretty

quickly and then watched both the specials as they came out. So kind of like, I wasn't fully, fully immersed in it immediately, but it didn't take that long. It's interesting because, you know, You and I had like a little pre-record chat yesterday sort of about our larger euphoria feelings and a big question you had was sort of who is this show for, which I think is a really good question to ask. But I think I want to drill down a little bit on like what makes euphoria so interesting beyond like the normal teens behaving badly or teen struggling sort of genre. And it's, euphoria has such a distinctive style, right? The show both takes place in the real world and not. There's not just, not just the fantasy sequence, but the way it's shot,

the style of the show, the distinctive style that like people are constantly just like, smeared and glitter, as I said. Like, it's just you, like if you look at a shot, you know it's from euphoria. And that, I think, has elevated it for a lot of people beyond. And I love a, I love a teen drama. So I'm not knocking other teen dramas. But, but it feels slightly elevated for that reason. The score by Labyrinth is so distinctive as well that it's just like you just have to like overhear a minute or see a shot and you know you're in this world of euphoria. So I mean, does that really hard styling of the show? Is that what makes it feel like you don't quite know who it's for or what makes you feel that way? It's actually, in some ways it's the opposite.

I think one of the reasons that that's a big question for me is that, you know, I love music. I do some music shows also for The Ringer. Yeah. The soundtracking decisions on the show are both immaculate and completely baffling to me. I mean, most of the episodes of season one, this like, you know, prototypical, like, Gen Z show. The episodes are named after, like, 90s rap songs. Like, these, I mean, even in this episode, they're at this New Year's Eve party and they're listening to juvenile. Like, these kids don't listen to back that ass up.

Like, that's just not a thing. Like, there's just no way that that's a thing. Yeah. And Sam Levinson absolutely knows that, right? Like, I go back and forth on whether or not I think that there's, like, real sort of intention and something clever behind that or if it's just as simple as they really like how that sounds and they think it's a great song and they would like to use it. Both of those are totally satisfactory to me.

But a lot of what, there are just references in this show that have nothing to do with the age of the kids that they're portraying. Yeah. And that sort of catches me in a way where it's like, okay, is the audience supposed to get that or are we just supposed to go, oh, that sounds nice, that looks nice? And there is something, I mean, to the broader question of just like, what makes this show so good and so compelling, I often get caught up in, you know, okay, what does it all mean? And what does it mean to be sort of pushed by art and culture. that you're consuming versus having something that's just like a little bit more like a warm, cozy blanket, which to me would be like, I don't know, the O.C. Right. Like other shows that deal with

young people going through life, but don't necessarily consistently delve into as dark subject matter. But I think we would be wise to not lose sight of the fact that largely what makes this show excellent is that it looks fantastic. It sounds great. And there are incredible performances going on on screen. Like, the number one thing that that makes it for me is that the actors are doing a fantastic job and that the world that they've created is visually stimulating, you know, the music is stimulating. So it's, it sometimes I think like I overthink it a little bit. It's just like, it's a great show for those obvious reasons. Yeah, I mean, it is a show that is so much an aesthetic. And so maybe more surface reads are called for it to show that is so heavily aesthetic. But I

do think you're right that the performances, you know, particularly of Zendaya and Hunter Schaefer at the center of it, are so interesting. I think Rue is a character that it would be so easy to not care for. And Zendaya does such a good job making her someone we are really, really in her head and rooting for her. And I mean, this is part of Sam Levinson's whole thing. Euphoria is so autobiographical for him, despite him being from a completely different generation. And he's talked about this. He's talked about how he, like, you want to tell this story about his own experience. This is loosely based on an existing Israeli show. But Sam Levinson, who has had his own very public struggles with substance abuse, was like,

this is really my story. And Zendaya has said that too. When she's talking about whether or not there's a happy ending for her character, she's like, well, I'm not really that word at the end of the day for Rue because she's Sam and Sam's fine. So Rue will be fine is sort of how Zendaya views the character. It's very interesting that he, in this avatar that he's created for him, himself is a, you know, a young woman of color. And he is like, you know, a very privileged

white man who has navigated the world. And I almost have to wonder if what's actually happening here is like a split. Like if Nate is occupying some of this other territory that, like, Roo put it possibly for him. There you go. That's me probably maybe reading too deeply into a show that doesn't, maybe doesn't call for that. But that's something I've been thinking about. But this idea that it's so autobiographical and I think that's why you get this weird jangly mix of his you know elder millennial bordering gen X. I actually don't know how Sam it is like musical taste and then trying to tell a story about the way kids live now. And it doesn't really work but I don't mind that dissonance. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's interesting

that you bring up Nate because Nate is a character where, who has a lot of dissonance for me that has to do with how much are we supposed to take him as kind of a collage versus a fully formed and thought out character because sometimes to me he reads as just like basically this avatar of toxic masculinity. Right. And then occasionally that will frustrate me because it feels like there are plot points that are left unresolved and I'm curious if they will resolve to a greater extent in season two.

We'll get to what happened in episode one. Yeah. Pretty soon. I don't know if we take that as a hint toward that. And then sometimes I feel like, okay, well, if he is just sort of supposed to be like a symbol, then it almost doesn't matter, right? Like he just sort of exists for other characters to play off of almost, but then occasionally it sort of leaves me wanting more.

So I do think that sometimes you have to take some of that dissonance and just say like, these are artistic choices don't read too much into it. But at the same time, like, we're people who are used to wanting that from the shows that we watch. And it's hard to go through it without thinking, well, does that really make sense? Would that really happen? And it certainly makes it, it makes for, you know, fertile ground for us to discuss at the very least. Nora's going to be on heavy justice for Nate watch and not in the way that we usually mean justice for someone watch. She's just like, lock him up, Nate. Get him out of hair. I have like a consistent problem that I'm going to have and I'll just like tell everybody this right off the bat is I want to believe in the righteous power of a system that I'm pretty sure euphoria does not want to tell me is righteous and good and capable of solving problems.

That's something that I will just have to work through on my own. Are there never any consequences? Yeah. So the other thing that happened in between and what we'll get into the specific of this episode. But the other thing that happened in between these two seasons that really informs the way that I think about the show is Sam Levinson had a feature come out, Malcolm and Marie, starring Zendaya and John David Washington. You and I talked about this a little bit off pod. But there was, at least in the film critic community, a bit of controversy around this film because, again, Sam Levinson was injecting himself, again, injecting himself into a character of color in John David Washington. and acting out an almost like personal vendetta against an LA Times critic who had written a bad movie review about him.

And all that calls on, it doesn't really make me like Euphoria less, but what it calls into question for me is that self-awareness. You were talking about that. Like how much Sam Levinson know that, you know, these things are, these references are out of step or how self-aware is he? He's very smart. He's obviously brilliant. I think this show is quite brilliant in a lot of different ways. But in terms of self-awareness, after watching that whole Malcolm and Marie Tobacco go down, you could go read more about that if you don't know much about it. It makes me doubt his full self-awareness.

Do you know what I mean? That he was capable of putting that on the screen and saying, yeah, this is it. I'm going to take down this one film critic, you know, over a bad review. Do you know what I mean? That makes total sense to me. I think the thing is I did not. see Malcolm and Marie from what I've read and heard from you. It was not particularly successful. Yeah, I wouldn't say so. I think you can get away with a lack of self-awareness if you're putting out good content.

The shining example to me is the center of my universe, Taylor Allison Swift, wrote a song called Mean as a response to a critic who criticized her live performances. a kind of like well-known industry guy, but not a particularly, like, broadly popular person writing about music. Like, this review was going to be read by a bunch of industry people and basically nobody else. And then she turned it into this, like, massive song that she performed at the Grammys and made it this whole thing. And did get accused of sort of punching down quite a bit. The thing that saved it was that the song was really good. So ultimately, like, yeah, everybody wanted to listen to the.

the song so it just washes over, if you really boil it down, Petty is all heck, right? Right, right. It absolutely was punching down. But it worked out because she made something great out of it. If Sam continues to, like, I think you can inject yourself into something in ways that are a little bit shaky and maybe show some lack of self-awareness if what you are putting out is like, good. There's a lot more sort of flexibility and leeway. given to that. The problem is if the project is not particularly successful, then it becomes like, hey, so you did this thing out of pettiness. Yeah. Wasn't great. What was that about? What was that about? The last thing I want to say before we get into the details of this plot is

we talked about the aesthetic. Euphoria is always going to show that it looked fantastic. But this season they made the decision, Sam made the decision to shoot on film, which every episode proudly announces. It says like euphoria and underneath it says, shot on Kodak. It's not just he decided to shoot it on film. He wants you to know that he decided to shoot on film. And some of the actors have talked about it. You know, the younger actors

are unused to working with films. So they're like, oh, a reel will run out in the middle of like a seat and we have to change it out or something like that. So, you know, it's a learning process. But, I mean, I will say it looks incredible. Like, the show looks just so lush.

And whatever critiques I might have of the show, I I always just feel like I've been just swimming in something completely beautiful at the end of every hour. I, as uncomfortable as it gets, there's so much beauty in that discomfort that I always feel it's worth it at the end of the day. So, you know, shot on Kodak. Ephoria. No Instagram filter for that. No.

Let's get into it. Let's get into the episode. I thought we might just sort of run it down by character. Right. And start with, you and I had talked before you had seen this episode. I've only seen episode one. You've only seen episode one. We haven't seen the full season.

But you were like, oh, I wonder who's episode is going to be? And then you were like, oh, should we get a Fez episode? And I had to button my lip because I knew it was a Fez episode. And you hadn't seen it yet. So here we go. It's the Fez episode that you kind of wanted. How excited were you to see that it was opening with everyone's favorite, cuddly drug dealer, Fesco. I was thrilled. It's funny that we were just talking about sort of Sam being, you know,

Sam reading the chat rooms, maybe a little bit, reading the reviews. Because I think it was not just me who'd felt like, we need a Fes episode, we need a Fes episode, we need a Fes episode. And I do wonder, just because this didn't completely, it started as a FES episode, right? Like we got the, you know, Fez got the formula of, we're going to get the backstory, go back into his childhood, meet his grandma, figure out what Ash Trey's origin story actually was and get those insights into why he is how he is, why his life is the way that it is. But it didn't really continue through all the way to be purely a Fez episode. It was a Fez heavy episode. Yeah. And it did kind of make me wonder if there was a little bit of like, oh, hey, people.

People really want a Fez episode. Like, let's just do this. I recently rewatched season one in anticipation of this. And I actually think how that's how all of those episodes work, that there will be like the cold open is centered on the character. But we all always come back to Rue. Like, eventually the story, like, draws back to Rue. But I do think you're completely right that Fezco, like, emerged as this big fan favorite from season one. And people were, like, really thirsty for this.

and they gave him a pretty, like, healthy chunk of the episode for his, for his backstory, where we meet his grandma and, um, played by Sopranos alum, Catherine Narducci. Uh, incredible, incredible opener for this character. Um, but we see her, we see her walk into a strip club take some sort of, you know, mob justice on Fez's dad, shooting him in the thighs. I guess, before she takes Fez home with her. Young Fez has, like, a black guy so we can, like, assume that maybe he's being abused, and she's like, I'm going to take care of you now. But in her stroll through the strip club in order to take this vengeance, we get a lot of those, like, slow-mo euphoria, tons of nudity.

You're definitely watching HBO scene setting. How did that vibe with you? So I had, I was less, I was cringing less during the walk through the strip club than I was when, you know, she does enact her revenge. I think there are too many gratuitous penises in this show. Like, let's start there. I, I wish I, my kingdom for just one instance of implied genitalia instead of like full frontal exhibition. I just don't think that it's, I don't think that we need it. Like, again, we will come back to the. this a lot, I'm sure. There is some line where a show making you uncomfortable is valuable and gets some sort of point across. I really do think that, you know, Euphoria is at least two ticks over the line for me. It's totally worth it. But I don't think that it adds anything to see a flailing penis in that scene. Like, I just don't need it. And I definitely don't want it. I don't think you need that entire walk necessarily. But something I'm just,

I will say for euphoria, I mostly agree with you. Something I will say is that at least it's equal opportunity nudity, whereas like for years on HBO it was like a lot of female nudity and never any male fauntal nudity. So like, it's a feminist decision, Nora, you know, to show so many penises. Yeah. And it is my internalized misogyny speaking when I say that I really don't want it. I don't want it. I don't want it. Um, is this such an interesting open, you know, to use a great soprano's actress like Captain Narducci and then to give us all of these, you know, drugs are obviously a huge part of the show, but in terms of like the drug heisty crime aspect of it, I don't, we haven't seen a ton of that outside of some of the interactions with, uh, the character of Mouse

in season one. This felt a lot more sort of breaking bad, esk to me where we're following, you know, We see montages of like drug deliveries and all this sort of stuff as we're getting to know, Fez's grandma. And then as, you know, as Rue gets pulled into this other drug dealer plot in the episode, it felt like a, yeah, it felt like a move towards a crime story versus a teenage drug story. I don't know. What do you think? Well, so right in that opening montage when Fez's grandma is walking.

is walking into the strip club. She's wearing that amazing jacket that says what God's, God's word, God's will, God's way on the back of it. Incredible. God's word, God's will. God's word, God's will. And she goes on to, there's that scene where Ashtray is in the, you know, taking a bath in the sink.

And she's telling Fez basically like, If somebody dies of diabetes because they eat at McDonald's every day, it's not the CEO of McDonald's fault as this sort of allegory for selling drugs isn't the reason that people are addicted to drugs or die from overdoses. It's because they take them and they make those decisions themselves. And there was so much in this episode, especially centering around the FES storyline, including when he's at the party talking to Lexi and she sort of asks him to square being a drug dealer with being a good person, believing God. Yeah.

I'm interested to see the show sort of construct its own morality, almost. Like, there's clearly so much that goes on that's, like, extrajudicial and consequences take place sort of outside of, you know, society's normal mechanisms for enforcing them. but it does seem like it's sort of building up this idea of, okay, being a good person or doing the right thing might not happen in this world in the way that we assume that it should. Well, what does that mean to all of these different people? Because it's funny, the breaking bad comparison is interesting

because there's the scene with Cassie where she says, I don't know if I'm a good person. Right, right. And, you know, we're just coming off of watching the latest season of Succession where there was also a fair amount of like, I'm a good person or am I a good person talk. And one thing that it brought up for me is like, you know, however many years ago, we were sort of in this era of like Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Problematic Men in Prestige television shows where they weren't really asking that question. It was like they weren't good people. And that was sort of, that was a given. Yeah.

And the name of the game was either just like survival or how do these people choose to wield their power that they've gotten through not necessarily being good people. And now there are at least these internal struggles about wanting to be good on some level, even if the people who want that almost can't be. I think there's some sort of earnest like Gen Z influence there. but it is an interesting framework to kind of ground the decision making of the characters in. And I can see that leading to kind of more Fez stuff because obviously someone who does something illegal for a living, you know, you can play off of those themes a lot with that. So I'm curious to see where they go from there. Well, and also, I mean, like, Fez does emerge from season one and, you know, into this episode as like one. one of the most morally pure characters

despite what he does. He genuinely does care about Rue. And he genuinely, like, he takes care of Ashtray right away. And, like, of all the people on the show, I think I would most trust Fess to take care of me in, like, a terrifying situation or anything. Like, I would definitely, I would call him for advice. Like, the implication of the flashback is that he has suffered some slight brain

damage because he was like really sharp and smart in school and now he's like you know he gets hit in the head and maybe that's part of what's going on with him now but like I think he's just such a gemstone and I really love him and I think you're so right that it's so interesting the one of the first things we see is the back of his grandmother's jacket God's word God's will I think that is I think that might be an important thing in this season because if you go back to the pandemic special the Rue episode a big thing that her sponsor Ali keeps saying is he's talking about how she needs to believe in some sort of higher power. I need to check in on if Sam Levinson has talked about his own faith.

But this idea that, like, Rue as an atheist is having a really hard time with the 12 steps because this belief in a higher power, whether or not it's like a Christian God or something else, is something that she can't buy into. And if we're sitting here at home rooting for Rue's recovery for her journey, it seems like that's something that she is going, I'm not saying the show is saying you have to believe in a Christian God. But I think the show is going to try to make the case of you have to believe in a power outside of yourself in order to get on the road to recovery. We should not say atheists can't recover, but like there is still something bigger than yourself. Do you know what I mean? Do you think that there's a chance that the something bigger than her?

is, I mean, not to be too saccharine about it, but like love. Well, the other thing that at least that is like you can't be in a relationship and do a healthy recovery. So we'll see. Let's let's, let's, let's wrap up Fes really quickly. They go to meet Fez and Rue and Astray and this character Custer, who we met last season, who was like Mousas, lieutenant, and then this new character, Faye, played by Chloe Cherry, who's a like her other job as being a porn performer. They go to meet Lori, who's played by Martha Kelly, who's a comedian that I know best from the FX series basket.

But she crops up a lot. She has this like very iconic dry delivery. I think it's, Euphoria is for all the ups and downs, like the show that will cast someone like Martha Kelly, a dry-as-toast awesome comedian, and someone like Chloe Cherry and like put them in a scene together. And it all kind of work.

And have it work. Yeah. Yeah. And Lori strikes like the Breaking Bad comp or like justified or any of those like FX era crime shows. She just feels like this is, oh, this is a season two big bad that we're meeting, like a quirky season two big bad. I don't know if that's going to be a major plot this season, but that's what it, that's the feeling it gave me. You know what I mean? Interesting.

Yeah. I can, yeah. I mean, again, like it just feels like there's sort of. a lot that's ripe for the picking in terms of Fez and that would make a lot of sense to me. But if we are like lovers of Fez as we are, then let's talk about Lexi. So we go to this New Year's Eve party.

They leave this terrifying scenario with Lori where like Rue is shoved into a shower and search for a wire and all this sort of stuff. They leave that. They go to this New Year's Eve party. They leave that soundtracked by Steely Dan. They go to the sneerzy party. And we get Maude Apatow's character, Lexi, who's super backburnered last season, was like kind of barely there, would disappear for episodes.

But she's very central to this episode. And she and Fez have a kind of like, re-meat cute on the couch and they're hanging on the couch. I'm really into this combination. How do you feel, Nora? Oh, my God. I'm shipping them so hard. And I feel bad for doing that to Lexi because he's still a drug dealer. But I really am.

I thought it was. so sweet. I thought Fez looked so good in his green sweater. It was just like he, again, like he does have, in the weirdest sense, like he has the moral backbone of any character on this show. Lexi in other ways is the one who hasn't made self-destructive decisions. But she, I mean, our perspective on her, I think, is that she just hasn't been pushed to in any way. Like we don't know how she will survive under that kind of pressure. But she's asking, like, he clearly would love nothing more than to have a happy, safe life talking about books and history with Lexi. And it just, it warmed my heart so much.

I loved it so much. I want them to have a beautiful love story together. But again, I feel a little cruel wishing that on Lexi because that type of, um, that type of danger, I don't think, has touched her life. And it would be nice to preserve that. But can't help the way I feel. But maybe she needs to live a little. It's interesting.

We'll get a little more into, like, what Fez does here. But, like, even the thing that he does doesn't seem like a full deal breaker for Lexi. I got to say. Before we get to what Fez does with me, let's talk about Jules. Jules is a really interesting character. I was not aware that Jules was a character that. a lot of people weren't rooting for in the first season because I was all in on her. But apparently, according to interviews with cast and crew, like, this is a character

that some audiences have not responded well to. So I think they tried to do a lot of rehabbing in her COVID special where it's essentially just a therapy session with Jules, where we see a lot of season one played back through from her perspective. We better understand that Rue has been an unreliable narrative. and it helps us get more on Jules' team. So, like, how did you feel about Jules before and how do you feel about her going into this episode?

So it's funny. I did not have, I did not react to season one, like Jules was manipulative or bad for Rue. It always read to me, like, if someone's bad for Rue, it's Rue. Yeah. I didn't love the Jules special. Just because I've always loved this show so much as kind of an ensemble, cast. And whereas I think there was something about Ruse special where it's just her and Ali in the diner where those two performances were just like incredible. So, so good.

So good. That I was totally fine with it just being the two of them. Whereas with Jules, it just didn't feel like part of the show almost. And I think also after having already seen the Rue special and then watching the Jules special, I wondered, is this going to become even more clearly centered around just these two characters, whereas a lot of what I've loved about this show is like how having it be kind of a true ensemble effort

puts you into their world as a complete world. But I never had that initial response to the character where I felt like we needed sort of justification for things that she'd done. It was interesting to, you know, learn what it was that her mother did to get a little bit more clarity on how she feels about Rue. but I don't know. I didn't feel like there was sort of blank space to fill in or anything to kind of clean up. I agree. Like I didn't think the character needed rehabbing, and I agree also I thought the Rue's special was so strong.

And I think the Jules special was just trying to do a lot in terms of completely recontextualized an entire season of television and, you know, spend time with his character. But something very key that comes out of that special is Jules talking about her gender identity and her queerness and this idea of the extremely feminine aesthetic that she had that we saw from her in season one about that being something having to do with her trying to appeal to the male gaze and how she's no longer interested in men because she's fallen in love with Rue. And so she wants to explore different flavors of her identity, her identity as a trans woman. And so when we see her in this episode, you know, her hair is darker. She's chopped it off. She's not wearing the sort of like extremely girly stuff that we saw her in season one.

And it feels like, you know, in this special she talks about going off her hormone blockers. So it feels like she is, she's not detransitioning, but that she is trying to figure out different. flavors or different speeds of her trans identity as you go into season two. And that's super interesting to me because this show has did something really interesting in season one in not really, in not emphasizing her transness that much. It's there, but it's not all anyone's ever talking about it when it comes to her. And I think that was revolutionary in the way that they talked about her that way or didn't. But I do think it's now interesting to dig into it because it is a huge part of who she is.

And I think it's going to be a huge part of us understanding her even better. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, because her relationship with Rue has never been articulated explicitly as a queer relationship, even though it obviously is. Right. But there's never been a discussion about that, right? Like they've never, you know, no one has ever monologued on that in this show. And it does seem like they're setting it up maybe so that.

that could be territory that they could dive into a little bit more if they want to in season two. I think it was a great choice to have Jules already have, you know, she's already transitioned by the time we meet her. Right. Like there's some, she's not fully on solid ground with, you know, comfort and safety in her identity. We learn very, very obviously because she's put in dangerous situations immediately that would not happen if she were not trans. but she does have some idea of who she is and who she wants to be as a person, as a queer person, by the time we meet her. And I think, you know, there's something very refreshing about that.

Because, one, first of all, like, Hunter clearly has a hand in crafting the storyline. Like, she was a writer on the Jules special. I don't know how involved she is as a writer for episodes in season two. Right. She's obviously incredibly well-equipped to help tell this story. But there is always something nice, I think, about, you know, when a trans actor is playing a trans character, not forcing them to sort of hash out things that they've already had to go through in their entire life and, like, really, really just wrestle with all of this thorny stuff where it can be. just be a TV show and things that can happen just in Jules' life and we don't have to sort of like dive into it at every moment. Again, though, if that's what they want to explore, that's what

they want to explore. And clearly they have a good, good roster of people to be able to do that. But I have a little bit of trepidation just because, like you said, it was at minimum refreshing and I think even pretty compelling and pretty strong that they chose to not make it all about that in season one. So I am curious like how that will feel if it's more of kind of like a weighty topic of discussion. The main thrust for her in this episode is this, uh, tentative reconciliation with Rue. There's a lot of, you know, ideas of love and romance centering around this, this moment. there's that like spotlight on Rue as soon as Jules walks into the party where like Rue like almost senses her like turns around and and that's dramatic euphoria stylized spotlight hits her. There's the moment when Rue says like when she's having difficulty with her heart or her literal heart rate.

She says there it is. There's my heart. Hello. Heart. I thought I lost you right after we get a shot of Jules. There's the conversation about Rue relapsing. and then there's a New Year's Eve kiss. And so it's their romance is so tough and so compelling because you are rooting for it and rooting against it because you care about these characters and you want them to be happy and I want them to be together.

But I don't think it's good for anyone that they're together. What do you think? So I have a really big question about how this episode ended. Yeah. You mentioned how Rue's special brought up the idea of her. being an unreliable narrator. And that was because when she's talking to Ali, she mentions, you know, we were going to get matching lip tattoos, which we'd seen in season one in a shot that looked like, you know,

some tattoo artist was pulling their lips out and tattooing the inside of their lips, a la Kesha. And that to me, when I watched that scene in season one, I thought it was real. I didn't think it was any sort of dream sequence. It was not really made to look like one. But then she, then Ali says, well, did you? And Rue says, no. So that's the kernel where we got, oh, we can't necessarily believe everything that Rue,

even though she's in some ways omniscient, tells us. It's wild. And I had a big question about that stemming from the conversation between Rue and Jules that leads up to their New Year's kiss that basically ends the episode. because Rue at this point in the episode has just borderline overdosed. And when she first talked to Jules, couldn't really articulate anything of value, either because she was withholding or because she just wasn't in a physical state to be able to do it. And then all of a sudden she goes to Jules and, you know, says,

I'm sorry, I didn't need to do that. She's very in touch with her feelings. She articulates them clearly. It's vulnerable. It's meaningful. It's the type of thing that I think we are all rooting for Rue to always be able to do and that she very rarely can actually do. So at first when I was watching that,

I thought it wasn't really happening. I thought it was sort of this like dream world sequence of what Rue might want to say. An emotional lip tattoo. Yeah, yeah. But then at the end, when, you know, we'll get to Fez and Nate, but when the episode is ending, they are together, you know, because the kiss is so stylized that it could kind of be real or it could be fake. But then it does feel like we've been like snapped back completely into reality and they are sitting next to each other. Yeah. Did you think that that was a real

conversation that happened or did you take that as sort of dream world euphoria? Here's what I think happen. I think they definitely, I think they kissed. I think they're reconciled. But did it happen exactly that way? Like, who's to say? You know, especially the way that it's shot, as you say, like, it's sort of like fading in and out on each of them. It's highly stylized. I think the teaser poster for season two was, you know, euphoria. Do you remember that feeling? I think that's what it's called. And so it's this idea, you know, there's this constant blurring of Ruse's addiction to drugs and Rue's addiction to jewels

and this you know, euphoric, ecstatic space of young love and a drug trip and how they blur for her. And so I think did it happen?

Yes, did it happen that way? Probably not. I think would be my assessment of what happened there. Do you know what I mean? Sure. That makes sense. But you're right

that it is wild to watch this show with an unreliable omniscient narrator. Because Rue is constantly telling other people's stories Or she'll say, but I didn't know that yet. Or I wish they had told me that this happened. But like, how is she narrating it?

I think it's just one of those euphoria things that we're going to have to let go. But it could eventually become frustrating if we have to second guess every single thing that were shown. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, although I do think that like so much of the magic of Rue but also the frustration of Rue is that stakes are so flattened to her that. Like, for instance, one of the funniest parts of this show to me was, so they're in the, when she's coming back from this like drug deal gone violently wrong with Fez and Ashtray, she's like not phased by it at all, even though she's saying that she thought that she was going to die. But then suddenly it's like not a big deal to her.

It is, you know, that type of thing would be a much more regular part of Fez's life. But Fez is the one who's like, this is not funny. Like, this is a real thing. And then Rue thinks it's so incredibly cool that there was a female drug dealer And she's like, I'm just saying How many female drug dealers do you know?

And Fez says one And she's like, shit's got to change, man. She's got to change. Zendaya's delivery of that was so good. It is so good. It was so, so, so good. There's at least one moment an episode where I'm just like, oh gosh, darn you, euphoria.

How dare you be this good? It's a magic of Zendaya. She doesn't like, life and death and meaningless, like, interactions between teenagers, they have the same stakes to her, which I think can sort of feed into that, like, omniscient, but also unreliable dichotomy where, like, Rue can understand one thing totally perfectly, but be completely unable to, like, find the application of that understanding because she has no, sense of like sort of proportionality in terms of what matters in life and what's actually going to make a difference in her life and what isn't. I think it's a really good point. And I think

the magic of Zendaya, everyone on the show I think is really talented. But the magic of Zendaya is why this show works as well as it does. She's so, like I can't overstate how incredible she is in this role because she's like funny and vulnerable and brittle and like every, just everything all together. And every time the camera's on her, I just can't look anywhere else. Zendaya's stock rising between, you know, she's already a star, but now she's like the star of the biggest movie in the world, you know, level between the seasons is one thing. Another actress on the show whose stock rose in between seasons is Sidney Sweeney, who gave an incredible performance in White Lotus is one of the scariest teens I've ever seen. But it's a very different,

you know, it's a very different performance from Cassie. And it, it's a very different performance. And it, it It showed her range. I thought she was really good in season one of Euphoria as Cassie, but like watching her do Cassie, then watching her do White Lotus and then come back to Cassie. I'm just like in awe of what she can do. I want to read for you something that Sidney Sweeney said about Cassie this season. She says, I could tease that when you look at, when you ask about season two, my heart drops and you guys have no idea what you're going to watch way.

Cassie really needs to get her shit together. I can't say anything else. Cassie is a crazy storyline in season two that I did not expect. Every time I read a new episode that Sam writes, my jaw's on the ground. I can't believe this is something coming out of someone's mind. Now, listen, actors get hyperbolic about their storylines all the time, but I kind of think that something based on what happens with Cassie and Nate in this episode, based on what happens in the truck, actually even more so than what happens at the party, like what the episode, the amount of space the episode gives for whatever it is that's going on with Cassie in that truck. I am really interested to see what's going to be happening here for her this season. What do you think?

It is my guess that that, if we are assuming that that quote is not overly hyperbolic, I don't think that we have seen even really all that much of a hint, at least a sort of clearly legible hint about whatever she's talking about yet. Because I don't think that, like, Cassie hooking up with names. is not unexpected. That is absolutely something that Cassie, you know, wanting attention would do. Now, I do want to talk about the speeding car scene for a second.

Again, I love this show, but we have to be honest about the things that we love. Every, I don't know, third episode, there is something that might be generous, honestly. There's something that happens where they let it last way too long. Okay. Is this one for you, the truck? We needed about just, I don't know, a third the amount of speeding car scene that we got.

Like, the other example was when they played just like all of liability by Lord while we're seeing like season one flash in Jules's eyes. Yeah. I don't need a whole Lord song, even a very good one. And I don't need like several minutes with Nate just like swilling Budweiser. and driving 100 miles an hour. A sixer of Budweiser. That's a tough look on my guy, Nate. But obviously he's done much worse than buy a six pack of Budweiser and drive too fast.

You're thirsty for justice. You're thirsty for systemic justice when it comes to Nate and all the awful things that he's done. He does at least get his face caved in in this episode by our guy Fez. How did that feel for you? Not good. I would again like Nate is either I ping pong back and forth between

whether or not I need just like a lot of resolution on Nate as a character and with the things that he has done and did in season one or if I just have to accept that like he is an almost generic force for bad and

exists to sow chaos essentially I want Nate to go to prison is what I want. I don't want his face caved in by a drug dealer. Like, I would like for him to have to, like, I would like for him to be found out, right? Like, because he has broken laws. He has committed assault and battery. And he has, you know, filed false reports and done all this stuff and used the legal system and the criminal justice system to

avoid the punishment that he should take and to hurt other people. I would really, really, really like to see that come back around. One thing I think that was sort of frustrating to me about the Jules special is that Jules remains unwilling to say what he has done. And I don't think that that's like an inconsistency in Jules' character, but it is something that I want very badly.

Like it is something that would be very satisfying to me as a viewer. to see on screen. I'm pretty sure Euphoria is not interested in giving me that experience. But unfortunately, no, while there is some satisfaction in, like, the problem is that the only person I see Fez hurting when he bashes Nate's face in is Fez. I know. Lexi's looking on and she's sad. And I just don't think that any good will come of this.

I completely agree with you. I'm like, I want punishment for Nate, but I do not want it to. to splash back on Fez. And so, like, as much as I'm like, yes, this is, this is definitely something that this person deserves. And, like, if this puts Fez in danger, I'll be really bad about that. And, like, how can it not? Because that's what always happens with Nate is, like, someone tries to hurt him and he figures

out some really shitty way to hurt them back worse. Nate also, I mean, he has sex with Cassie and says he's going to do everything he can to get Maddie back. and has this really bizarre interaction with McKay that might lean back into some of the, like, you know, exploration of his own queerness that season one, the weird thing about euphoria, not the weird thing. The challenging thing about euphoria, I think, and you please feel free to disagree, is that I think it does occasionally ask us to have empathy for Nate a truly horrifying character. But I think it also wants us sometimes. And even if you don't feel that way, I think the show is trying to make you feel something for him. And that's it's tough.

It's a tough set sometimes. I agree with you. I think that the show is trying to make that happen. Maybe they will be able to do that for me in this season. They have not done that successfully up to this point. Like I'm, I want literally nothing more. than for somebody to go to a police station and say, this is what happened. Here is the proof.

Put this person behind bars right now. We already mentioned like a couple new characters that be in the season. I always love a season two because you're like, who are the new like elements that they're sprinkling into the mix here? And so one person we should talk about as we close out our time at this New Year's Eve party is this character Elliot played by Dominic Fike, who's a musician slash actor. and he, you know, he's going to be a big part of the season. I don't know any spoilers, but, like, I do know that, like, they've hired him on as a significant role. He comes in. He meets through, they're doing, you know, they're doing drugs together. He helps her, you know, measure her heartbeat, all this sort of stuff.

I think it's a really charismatic entry for him. He's, like, really funny. He's like, oh, I'm just fixing the washer, like, all that sort of stuff. I'm interested to see where this goes. This, like, according to an interview that Hunter Schaefer, and Dominic and Zendaya all gave variety. He's meant to be thrown in here to add an element of chaos to the relationship between Jules and Rue. So this is like a potential love triangle situation.

I don't know. I haven't seen it. Play out that way. How are you feeling about that? Excited. Yeah. He was so charismatic in not that much screen time. But, you know, there's whether it's an actual.

love triangle or also the triangle between like one thing that we did find out in Joel's a special is her resentment of Rue stemming from her resentment of her mother for being unable to control her drug abuse. Yeah. And it's very easy to see how Elliott could also be, you know, a wedge between the two of them as like a friend of Rue's who she does drugs with, right? Like, yeah, that's another sort of, that's another triangle outside the sort of traditional love triangle.

But maybe, you know, it could be either, it could be both. But he was great. I loved him. I don't know that, like, we've been talking about Rue throughout. So I don't know that we need to spend too much time here with her as we close out. But I mean, Zendaya has given a few interviews leading up to this season that is trying to prepare us for this being a particularly brutal and dark season. We watched Rue kind of try to come clean for Jules.

We know whether or not from L.E. Or having seen the Semin-Alazander Bullock film 28 days later, that you don't want to be in a romance while you're trying to come off of drugs. And so we're watching Rue relapse here. We're watching her tell Jules that she relapsed the day the Jules left. that's definitely a toxic element to introduce into their relationship. And even Elliott says to Rue, I'm not sure it's a good thing we met. So we're careening towards some kind of danger.

She's already been accosted by drug dealers in episode one and shoved into a shower. Like, I am terrified for Rue this season. How do you feel? Yeah, well, I'm sort of terrified for our empathy towards Rue because it does seem like she's being positioned or season two is being. positioned is one where we can see pretty explicitly like the chaos that her substance abuse reeks on the people around her, right? Like season one, we were so terrified just like, is Rue going to make it? Is Rue going to be okay? And now it seems like it's starting to,

you know, trickle out into, is Rue going to get other people in trouble? Is Rue going to, you know, put Fez in really, really dangerous situations? Is Rue going to, you know, put Fess in in really, really dangerous situations. Is Rue going to, you know, by meeting someone like Elliot, expose him to more severe types of drug use? Is she going to make Jules feel guilty in the same way that she felt guilty about her mother? Like, it's how is Rue going to make other people feel and how are the things that Rue struggles with going to make other people feel as opposed to just like, is Rue going to be okay. And that's a tall, like, if you think about it from the perspective of just, like,

creating a TV show, that's a tall task, right? Because in general, you want people to be rooting for your central characters. Right. And I believe that they could pull it off. There's no reason to think that, you know, this isn't the team of people. And Zendaya in particular isn't the person who can thread that needle. But if all we're seeing is her making life harder on the people that, she supposedly loves and cares about.

Like, who, that's kind of a doozy. Tough order. Tough order. All right. Let's close out this episode with like some rapid fire awards of moments that we want to shout out here, which we're going to try to do every week. So let's go with them in the tradition of Ruse, season one rundown of the dick pick scale. I'm looking for an acceptable slash terrifying slash horrifying moment.

from you from this episode. Okay, yeah. I mean, it's the, it's, um, Fez's grandmother shooting his dad. Uh, a solid like 10 to 15% of this episode I could not watch. Like I had my, literally had my hand over my eyes. But that was the one where I was just like, oh, God, we just started. Please.

Enough. No. Stop. Immediate penis. Um, yeah, I would, I'm going to go with, um, Faye, the new character, Faye, injecting heroin into, like her upper inner thigh in the car. Yeah, it was tough, tough watch. All right, to balance it out, who's most in need of a hug in this episode? Fez. Somebody just give Fez a hug.

I'm going to mirror you and say Lexi, and then we can just like have Fez and Lexi give each other a little hug. Yeah, I like it. A little comforting hug. All right. Favorite flashy camera move or shot from the episode? For me, it was the New Year's Eve kiss between Rue and Joel. where, you know, you see their faces are together and there's light just coming between the negative space. Stuff like that. I think it can border on too much, but I thought it was really beautiful and really well done. For me, it's the moment when Jules walks into the party and the spotlight hits a room and she turns around and the upper level of whatever house they're in. I thought that was like really beautiful and dramatic.

Needle drop of the episode. This is the segment that's going to stress you on, I think, the most ever. week. Hit me. What do you got? But I just love it. Like, just the, the, every incredibly anachronistic choice. So, like, it's one thing that when they are leaving this, like, drug deal gone wrong, the soundtrack is playing Steely Dan. Like, the show is using that as a musical choice at that point. It is even funnier that at this party, it's not like a song, you know, It's not a soundtrack song dubbed over whatever is going on in the show. At this party, they're playing like DMX and juvenile.

Yeah. No. In the year of our Lord 2021. No. Or whatever. It's supposed to take place. Yeah, exactly. No.

Except yes, because it sounds great. I'm going to give it to Lori's, I don't know, partner, the drug dealer bruise. Before the Seeley Dan hits, we get the song, right down the line by Bruce Rafferty. Yeah. And it's just like a classic, like if you're, any drug dealer den scenario, I think you need a fish tank, which we get, some like weird randos, which we get. And like someone scarily dancing to some classic rock, which we get.

So I think that was the needle drop moment for me. They also, I've honorary mentioned, they close out this episode with died in your arms tonight, which just like, it was very choice. The Maddie Perez honorary fit check. This is honor of our style queen Maddie. Who are you picking this week? Okay. So like the answer is sort of always Maddie, but I'm giving it this week to Fez in the green sweater, like bringing out his eyes and his hair on the couch with Lexi.

And he took it off so he wouldn't get it spattered with blood. Yes. Yes. It's true. I think I do have to give it to Maddie in this episode because we didn't. didn't talk about her. She looks incredible. The nails, the hair, the eye makeup, the classic skin-tight outfit, just incredible look. But if there's a runner-up, again, I mean, I think you and I are on the same page with this Fez and Lexi thing. I'm going to get to Lexi's, like, sweet little

braid crown that she wears to this New Year's Eve party. She dresses like she's 38, and I really love her. It's like a Gen Z American Girl doll look. Yes. Yeah. Classic Kirsten or Molly vibes. And finally, who would we actually want to party with this week? Because it's not Rue, to be clear. So who would you want to party? No, it's definitely not Rue. It's never rude, honestly. I would do like a quiet dinner at home with Lexi and Fess.

I think that would be like my kind of social interaction. The answer to, like, it's honestly like Maddie and only Maddie. Because like she doesn't do anything horrible in this episode. She's just like a narcissist. She would leave you. Like she would not really be all that fun to attend to party with because she would leave you in 10 seconds flat. But, like, I don't know.

She'd probably bring you somewhere fun. She would leave you passed out in a bathtub. Yeah, I would also go with Lexi because she's the only one who, like, cares where people are at any given time. Like, can't find her sister and actually actively cares about that, you know? I would like, so, like, Cassie clearly is making some poor choices. I would like to attend something with Maddie and Lexi. Because Maddie is probably going to drive the train so that you're doing something, like,

kind of fun and a little out there. But Lexi is going to make sure that you are where you're supposed to be and that everyone is safe. Yeah. Love it. Perfect. Ideal combination. That's a good squat. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's it for us for season two. We'll be back next Sunday for episode two. This episode was produced by the great Bobby Wagner. And I mean, please, I don't know how you feel, Nora, but like, please tweeted us your thoughts and feelings about euphoria. That's how I feel you can tweet at me or find me elsewhere on socials. And I'm looking forward to partying with this.

with this very reckless crew all season long. Call us, beep us. We're excited. Bye.