The Prestige TV Podcast - Five Big Questions About 'Framing Britney Spears'

Episode Date: February 5, 2021

Amanda Dobbins and Amelia Wedemeyer discuss 'Framing Britney Spears,' the new documentary from 'The New York Times' that focuses on Britney Spears's conservatorship. Hosts: Amanda Dobbins and Amelia Wedemeyer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brittany had to navigate being told who she could be and what she could do. People became fascinated with her sort of unraveling. She accepted that the conservatorship was going to happen, but she didn't want her father to be conservative. That was her one request. And any time there's that amount of money to be made, you have to question the motives of everyone close to that person. Do they always have her best interest at heart?

Something is going on behind the scenes here. I didn't understand what a conservatorship is, especially for somebody capable of so much that I know firsthand she's capable of. Why is she still in this? Why is her dad making all of her decisions? What do we watch, Free Britney! TV concierge, a ringer podcast

where we help you navigate the wide world of streaming services and what to watch on them. I'm Amanda Dobbins, I'm editor of The Ringer. I am joined today by my pal Amelia Weddemeier, also of The Ringer, and we are here to talk about framing Britney Spears, which is a new documentary, produced by the New York Times,

available on FX and Hulu about the one and only Britney Spears. Amelia, hi. Hi. I think we're going to have to contain ourselves because we could talk about Britney Spears probably for hours. Yes, totally. And I think that there are many documentaries that could be made about Britney Spears, but we're going to try to combine ourselves to this one documentary,

which, as I said, it's called Framing Britney Spears. It's on the FX show called The New York Times. Presents, which this is my first installment of the New York Times presents. Same. I'm a subscriber and a fan. I just have not seen this particular iteration. And this is a documentary about Britney Spears. And kind of, I would say, it's focus is on the free Britney movement and kind of the

conservatorship reporting that the New York Times has done in the paper, which really great reporting. And then it kind of uses that free Britney lens and kind of what transpired in 2020 as a way to explore the phenomenon of Britney Spears over the last 20 years. That's exactly it. Yeah. It's fascinating. It kind of, I wish it were actually longer. But it's, yeah, it kind of goes through her whole story from when she was a child on Star Search up until now. So yeah, you're correct. I agree with you. It's 74 minutes long. And as soon as I started it, I was like, how are you going to do? in 74 minutes. And I think for me, the, you know, most revealing parts are when it is talking about, like,

her legal battles and the conservatorship and that reporting. And because it's hard to encapsulate all that is Britney Spears. Totally. In however long this podcast is going to be in 74 minutes, in really a lifetime. We'll try. You know, before we get into the documentary, just let's talk about Britney Spears. And why is she such a big deal? deal and why are we all and like you and I and also society so drawn to her story?

I mean, I can't even, I remember when she first came onto the scene, I was like eight or nine. And I just, I had never seen anyone like her. And I think they talk about it in the documentary, but this was kind of when all the boy bands were really big and there really wasn't a big girl scene. I guess you could maybe say the spice girls, but I think their popularity had kind of waned. And this was like she was a legitimate star and she was doing things that people hadn't really done. And again, she's just, I'm sorry. I'm just such a huge fan.

I love her so much. So yeah, I'm biased. I share this. I'm a few years older than you, but I have an illustrative first Britney Spears interaction anecdote. Not interaction. I've never met Britney Spears. Let's be real. But the first time that I learned about Britney Spears, I believe I was 12 years old and I was

an in sync concert at the Fox Theater in Atlanta, Georgia. And there is this girl who was opening for InSync. And we had never heard of her. And frankly, we were just like, could you please bring Insync onto the stage? Like, I'm over this. But then I got home and I was listening to Casey Casim's Top 40. Do you remember Casey Kasem's Top 40? Did you ever know what that is? Are you too young for that? But I know, I know his whole story and whatnot. And I hear this song called Hit Me Baby one more time. And I was like, oh, that's that girl. So everything that you just said about it being of a boy band moment. And this is like, you know, within the pop landscape, it was really, really teen-focused.

Yes. Kind of late 90s, MTV, TRL, like pre-9-11, just like. Right. And also still when we had monoculture. So Britney Spears was everywhere and she was gigantic. I mean, and, you know, they show in the documentary, sold millions. of records, just kind of an overnight huge phenomenon. And at a time when that meant that, like, everyone's anxieties and thoughts and feelings

and expectations and, like, financial obligations would be projected upon you. And so I think the Britney Spears' enduring appeal is both, you know, some great songs. Let's be real. And that's... Oh, my God. We'll talk more about the documentary and what's in it, what's not in it. But they don't have rights to the song. And so that is like a bit missing. But the music and the Britney phenomenon itself to us as

teenagers was, I think, a really formative cultural experience. But then Brittany through the media frenzy around her and, you know, and her own personal struggles and how those are documented in the media becomes kind of like, I think the celebrity story, certainly of the 2000s. Yes. And encapsulates everything, you know, everything. from sexuality, class, like media, mental health, all of the just like fame, celebrity, paparazzi. It's all right there in this story. And so that is one of my, I don't want to say complaints, but it's hard to fit all that

into 74 minutes. I truly thought that this was going to be like a multi-episode kind of thing. I didn't realize one of like many different topics that this series. kind of goes on. So yeah, I wish it, that's my main complaint, too, is that I wish it were longer. And, you know, I just find her such a compelling figure because, like you're saying, she's endured so many ups and downs. She has managed to reinvent herself each time. And I think the idea of, you know, reinvention is something that appeals to everyone. And I think she's also this compelling, a living tragic figure in the same vein of like Marilyn Monroe.

or you could argue Anna Nicole Smith, even Amy Winehouse, you know, who've got to become martyrs for celebrity. I think that's a great point. And the next question I wanted to ask you, which was kind of what, like, the most shocking or revealing aspect of this documentary was for you. And I won't step on your answer, but my answer does have a lot to do with the tragic portion of her career and how it was portrayed. I think one part of it was, it was kind of amazing to. me because I think I had forgotten how much she was beaten up in the press and how many of the things that people said to her. Like there's a clip when someone is like, we need to talk about your breasts. And then they ask if she's a virgin. Like that would not fly today. And it was just kind of shocking to watch her have to smile and talk through it. And she really came up during a time when

anything was okay to air. And it's and not only that, but she's, She's beaten up in the press when all of her, you know, mental health situations kind of imploded. And there was that family feud clip. Yeah, that was galling. I had never seen that. Neither had I. And they're just like, what did she lose? And they're like, her boyfriend, her mind.

It was just like, oh, my God. Yeah. I don't know if we have gotten better as a whole in terms of how we talk about anything in the world. I mean, that's a different podcast and your existential despair. But I agree with you. I was kind of shocked by the tone of everything from the late night jokes to the interviews. You know, she's sitting down with Diane Sawyer. She's sitting down with Matt Lauer.

She's the clips, all of this stuff. I remember some of the parental like hand-wringing over the sexualization of baby one more time and all of the MTV stuff. You know, I grew up in Atlanta, Georgia, so people were going to be condescending. But it is as an adult as opposed to being a teenager or a young. young person just watching it. The tone is outrageous. Yeah. And I, and the other thing that you mentioned was just, I think we do have a better, maybe not a better understanding, but I think collectively are more sensitive to issues of mental health. And people are just like, we don't want to armchair diagnose. And I think the documentary does a good job of like not

getting there. But there is clearly a lot going on in a person in a precarious situation. Right. And like, no one cared. At all. They enjoyed it. And like they have paparazzi talking about it. And they have, I think, a former editor of Us Weekly. And they... That was so fascinating because he talks about how they spent

seven or eight million dollars a year on paparazzi photographs. It's, I can't imagine. I can't imagine that kind of money. And, you know, and that's like the media nerd side of that is very interesting to me because Brittany is at a moment where those tabloids and that like stars just like us thing, you know, kicks off. And then it turns she kind of is aligned with Lindsay Lohan and Paracelton and stars who are not quite like us, but who are definitely really famous. I have, I'm assuming people have seen this if they're listening. No, I won't spoil a cameo at the end of this documentary.

Though you can probably guess now. That was delightful. But they do. We should talk a little about like who's in this documentary and who's not because briny spears is not a part of this documentary no one in her family is a part of this documentary same lofty you know like none of the lawyers the music so it's kind of people in the periphery exactly and then um you know and then our pal wesley morris from the new york times which i'm just like always really happy to see wesley and also joe coscarelli who's another new york times reporter and did a lot of the reporting about the conservatorship which is a hard word to say it's sort of like we're just like It's like rural juror on 30 rock.

The rural juror, yes. I know. I think the person closest to her was Felicia, her former assistant, who showed up and she was a nice little presence because I actually do kind of remember her being on the periphery because, you know, you'd read the album notes and be like too fee fee and, you know, she was her handler and kind of her best friend. I think that Felicia, putting aside like the New York Times reporters who I, I, I, I, trust very much. But in terms of all of the other people who agreed to be interviewed for this documentary,

Felicia to me seems the most trustworthy. Yes. And I, and the most kind of concerned about Brittany herself. And you aren't questioning her motivations for being in the documentary. I mean, an extraordinary thing is that they have the videographer, the video paparazo who took the video of the like the infamous umbrella photograph, which like, you know, It's interesting. I don't know if that would be filmed now. And I think we would feel so, I mean, it would, I guess, because it would just be filmed on a social media, right? Yeah, yeah, totally.

But that is the bad version of iconic in my head, but that is a photograph that is so, so vivid. And they have the video of him doing it. Yeah. And he is just like, like she didn't say that she didn't want to be photographed. She never told us that. His lack of awareness is really astonishing. It's amazing. And the same thing kind of goes with the Us Weekly person.

They really don't want to take accountability at all. And it's just kind of disappointing. But it's like, I guess that's their mindset, you know? Yeah. And, you know, I think part of it is that that is, what, like four minutes of a documentary that could be a documentary on its own. And so I like, and there are a lot of things that I want to know more about that aren't quite. can't be fleshed out in the same way. And, you know, that's just like the nature of the project that they're doing.

It does seem like what they really want to focus on is the free Britney movement and the conservatorship. There I did it. Do you feel like you have a better understanding of what's going on there after watching this documentary? I guess. I mean, here's the thing I kind of knew beforehand just because, like, you know, I follow her. I still enjoy her. I follow her on Instagram, whatever. You know, I guess, yeah, it's usually for older people who or people who have like a mental disability that makes them incapable of making their own decisions. And I guess I kind of already knew that. But it was just more of a, just a confirmation of what it was to have a conservatorship, I guess. Yeah. I would say I really recommend

the original story by Joe Kaskarelli and Serge Kovileski that explains some of this. And the conservatorship battle has been covered in the news as much as it can be with kind of the court records. And, you know, a lot of the documentary is they're highlighting the court records for you and kind of breaking down what can be some pretty excruitable documents. And I think, like, that has value. But I agree with you that I was, like, familiar with the beats. The documentary does have a few things. I had never seen the footage of Britney Spears, like, speaking about. Oh, the end. MTV documentary that they had. Yes.

She's talking about. Yeah, neither at I. And she refers to it as the like her constraints. Right. But she would, she's like I would really like to be free of them. And it goes and that was something I never seen and something that was really affecting. And, you know, they do, they make a pretty good case about how long, like what this legal arrangement is, how unusual it is for someone like this to be in this legal arrangement. how hard it is to get out of it.

And also that the people close to her seem to indicate that she doesn't want to be in it, which is also indicated in those legal filings. Right. So I thought it did like a good job of communicating that. I have to say I personally could have done with less of the Free Brittany movement, which is not to say that I applaud their aims. Sure. And everyone's got to have, you know, a sense of purpose in life and also.

Exactly. And some friends online. But there was a lot of it. I don't know. What did you think? No, I agree. There was a lot of like we're talking about armchair diagnosing her and problems. And they talk about in the documentary briefly that no one really knows what mental issues she

might have because the court records are sealed as they should be. And it just feels. I don't know, a little weird to be like, well, I think she has this and that she wants to be free. And I'm not saying that she shouldn't be free to make her own decisions. But it's just, it's weird to create an entire podcast off of that. And just, you know, there are people making money off of it. And it just feels strange. Yeah, I would just say also, you know, it's in the documentary a lot because it was happening in 2020 and they could film it.

And I understand that it's like good tape. I do feel like I personally have seen a lot of documentaries or stories or podcasts recently about like groups that organize online towards an unusual goal. And here is what this group's interest in this thing you've never heard of teaches us about like the internet and society and whatever. And like that's cool. The internet runs all our lives. Like same same here. You and I are on a podcast talking about Britney Spears. So I don't really know like what leg I have to stand on, but that to me was less illuminating. And the legal stuff, which I just think is more complex and what, you know, what people don't really know was to me what stood out. You know,

the flip side of that is that the case has not been resolved. And there is still a lot that we just don't know. Do you feel like you have a deeper understanding of Britney after this? I mean, I don't know if it's necessarily a deeper understanding, but maybe just, I have more questions about her relationship with her father, I guess, and not that, again, and I feel weird prying into her personal life with her family, because that's, you know. That's a paradox, right, is because that there is, there is so much interest in this, but also it really does seem that like a lot of the complications, legal, emotional, otherwise doesn't seem. We watched a whole documentary about how those are a result of, like, really intense prying into Britney Spears' life. And there's that Matt Lauer clip where he asked about the paparazzi and she breaks down in tears. Like, you know, so it's, I don't know if it's actually a vicious cycle. I think we probably could just leave Britney alone to quote, Chris Crocker.

Chris Crocker. I think I'm of the Chris Crocker generation where I think it's just time for us to leave her alone and also hope that she gets the legal. resolution that is good for her. Definitely. You know, here's a question for you. Who do you think this documentary is for? That's a great question. I was thinking, like,

I don't think it's really for her fans or her avid fans because they probably know everything about this already. And I considered myself a fan. I wouldn't say that I'm the most devoted fan. But this wasn't really that illuminating in terms of, like, her career, what she's been through. and, you know, in terms of all the legal jargon, I mean, I guess that kind of cleared up some stuff. But again, it was kind of a reiteration of everything I already knew.

And it just didn't go in depth enough for me to really be like, wow, I learned a ton of new stuff. I would agree. I wanted more. I say that knowing that I just like know way too much. And I probably spend a lot, you know, I spent way too much of my time reading all of the Us Weekly issues that are shown in the documentary and looking at all those photos. So that's on me too. But I am curious, I think this is probably a good explainer for someone who knows who Britney Spears is, but doesn't know, like, at all what's been going on and doesn't really remember the media phenomenon. Definitely. I don't really know who that person is now,

because I think at some point to know Britney Spears is to, like, all everything, yeah, the first 30 minutes happened so publicly. Like, that was part of the problem. It consumed all of America. But on the other hand, I'm kind of like, you know, I think anything that gets people to think critically about major pop cultural topics is great. And I 100% agree. And on that note, I think that's what I wanted to see more of.

Like, I know Wesley talked about, and I had never thought of it in the lens of like, also thinking about Monica Lewinsky. But I found that to be so interesting. and I wish that there was more about that, you know? Totally. I mean, I think that's probably our main takeaway. Like, we, we enjoyed this and give us more. We will always watch.

There we go. And also that is kind of one of the tragedies inherent in the Britney's experience. Sorry to end it on a downer. Give me more is a great song. It's interesting. I love talking about Brittany with you. I could talk about Brittany with you. forever. It feels like 20 more documentaries could be made about her. So maybe we'll have another

opportunity. I hope so because she's so fascinating. She's wonderful. She's iconic. I just, I really do love her and I support her and I wish her the very best. She deserves it. I do. On that note, this has been TV concierge. I'm Amanda Dobbins. Thank you to Amelia Weimar. And we will be back with more streaming recommendations.