The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Furious’ Episode 5: Cat Meets Mouse

Episode Date: August 11, 2026

Jo and Rob run a targeted search to recap the fifth episode of ‘Furious.’ ⁠Click here to get tickets for our live show at Televerse!⁠ (0:00) Intro (2:10) Instant reactions (11:00) Mailbag check-in (23:19) Character parallels (32:28) Alice and Marshall (38:21) Campbell Scott! Email us! [e-mail] Follow us on IG and TikTok! Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney Producer: Kai Grady Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles, Jacob Cornett, and Trish Nguyen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Dwayne. I'm Dwayne. I love salad. Romoney. We missed you. I missed you. I missed being on the show.

I missed the start of Furious. And I'm very upset about it. This is a wonderful show. Are you furious about it? No. Not quite to that level. Wow. Look, I'm...

You've already forgotten the rules of yes and on the podcast. On the contrary, I'm not here to step on women's rage. Oh. I'm not going to listen. I'm acknowledging the boundary and backing us. up respectfully. All right. We're here to cover Furious, the Hulu show, which you can also watch on Disney, some

light family fair on Disney Plus, if you prefer. We covered episodes one through four. Our pal Yassi Salick stepped in for Rob to cover that last week. That was a fairly chaotic podcast, not just because... It was a delightful podcast. Oh, it's a delight. Always. Time with Yassi is always a delight.

Time with Joanna not organizing her thoughts over the course of four episodes. It's chaotic. Oh, come on, come on. We're covering one episode today. It does simplify things a little bit. A much clearer sort of thing. So up through episode five of Furious, pick a sticker is what it's called. If you've not watched up through episode five, I would recommend you do that because there are several revelations, twists and turns inside of this episodes.

We lost yet another beloved character actor. And before we get into any of that, and we do some emails, but I wanted to just sort of like off the top. Rob, you were, you know, jet setting around Europe. I was. But still answering emails because work-life balance eludes us all. Who knows it? And I was like, Rob, furious, it's a show, we should cover. And then you had to come back and sort of like cram it because you just got back.

Had to. But first of all, you were like, if you like the show, I'll like the show. What a compliment. Secondly, did you like the show? Absolutely, I did. I mean, I think this is like a pretty remarkable piece of television, to be honest. It is so expertly drawn in terms of the lead characters especially, so well balanced. I just like that they don't make anyone be one thing.

Like everyone is super messy and they're living in a fucked up world with fucked up systems and making compromises constantly. I mean, that's our kind of show. Yeah, absolutely. Do you support the character, Catherine Grace, killing that shelter lady? I thought you were going to say just in her murders more generally. Yeah, more generally, sure. but specifically shelter lady,

that seems to be the one that people are a little perturbed that I support it. I don't really, I don't support that. No. No. But the other murder? The dudes who were involved in trafficking children? Yeah.

See, this backs me into a corner as someone who is famously both anti-murder and anti-human trafficking. Who am I to support? Yeah, well, which one are you more anti? I think, I probably look. The human trafficking is not a good look. It's not good for anybody.

And that may sound glib us talking about it in this way, but I feel like we have some license. Given the weird tonality that you and Yossi talked about in the first four episodes of the show, it is a miracle that they are able to pull off something this heavy consistently with a grim sense of humor about it while kind of poking at the characters. And I think the victims themselves being fleshed out into actual human beings who are not simply defined as this one thing all the time. I find it very, like, engrossing, perturbing, but also entertaining. Like, this show, to me, does not feel like a slog. And, you know, I, again, Yassi and I talked about this, but I have encountered some people who say, like, I don't, you know, I'm not emotionally connected to these characters. That's not my experience at all with this show.

I am sort of, like, emotionally all the way in on both sides. All three of our furious women that are sort of leading this show, I am emotionally bought in to all. of them deeply emotionally bought into Scoob McNary and very worried about him constantly. Although this was an odd week for him. Yeah. Don't share this information with Marshall, right? There's just, there's one thing in life you can simply not do. Yeah.

And it's tell the abusive guy that the woman he battered is now into, in a very different way, yeah. Being knocked around a little bit on her own terms. What was the motivation for sharing there? I simply don't know. I was so baffled by it. I was like, did we miss a wink, wink, wink sort of conversation? like the one Danny Kelly has with Nora in the elevator of like, I can't tell you what to do, my guy.

Yeah. And it was like, did like Alice somehow engineered this? Was she pulling a puppet drink? But there's simply no explanation for it. We will go more orderly through the episode. Here's my best assessment that I could possibly make for our guy, Danny Kelly, not to be confused with the rigor zone, Danny Kelly. And his bizarre choice to share this information with Marshall, which is that, you know, he's like, hey, There's a house to the Jersey Shore where I definitely am going to go there

and I'm definitely going to survive this season and make it to the house and the Jersey Shore. Don't worry about it. Do you want to come with me and she is sort of like a freak out about it, right? Yes. And then when he's having that conversation with Marshall, he's like, you know, get a dream journal, go to therapy, work on yourself. She still loves you. So my, like the line that I was drawing from her turning down seemingly or at least freaking out

about the idea of the trip to the Jersey Shore. I want to come back to her reaction to that for sure. And then him sort of telling Marshall this stuff in a way that's like, get your shit together and be worthy of her because I guess if she's in love with you, maybe there's some way to redeem you so she can have what she wants because Danny Kelly is the most self-sacrificing guy that has ever existed in fiction. Well, he is Irish so presumably, maybe not presumably, but could be Catholic. Do you, is there a more Irish name than Danny Kelly? There's not.

Okay. The potato accusations are fair. Do you like... Do I ship it? No. I mean, yeah, I do. I was talking about her and Marshall. I'm like, no, I don't.

No, no, but do you buy that as sort of like his motivation for that conversation and why he might make this really weird choice to share this information with him? Just try to sort of like scare him straight. Because from where I'm sitting at home, there's no redemption for Marshall. But if Danny Kelly's like, well, she's going to be in love with you any. way, maybe you can turn your shit around and be the kind of guy who deserves her. Do you know? I think Danny Kelly as well as anybody on this show. Yeah. And we're just going to refer to him by his full name because he is a Danny Kelly. Absolutely. Uh, sees Alice as somebody whose wires are crossed all the time, who understandably given her circumstances in what she's been through, just like cannot

separate any of these massive gravitational forces in her life, especially as they concern Marshall. And so, yeah, it's like acknowledging some of the inevitability of the situation, not just like, oh, she's still in love with you, but we learn over the course these last couple episodes. I mean, they've had a lifetime of kind of connection and relationship and off and on or whatever it was leading up to all of the stuff that has caused their separation and the violence that he inflicted upon her. And so it's like, for one, like, of all of the characterizations in the show, what they have done with Danny is something I don't think I've ever seen before, which is like the very specific, like, full-throated, no-questions-asked support of a victim of violence. Yeah. But so no-questions asked, he literally didn't ask any other questions. And so, like, never followed up and never really heard what happened. Like, I'm so impressed by the deafness of that idea in conjunction with all of this other insane shit and heavy.

shit that's happening on this show. They've just found like very delicate ways around the edges, even while being a somewhat knock you over the head show at times to dig into some of this stuff. So like believe women but don't actually talk to women? Is that, is that Danny's approach here? The idea of like being so respectful of Alice coming to him when she is ready to do it, that it just creates distance between them in the aftermath of all this. And so like that, I mean, that's kind of the heartbreaking thing about where they find themselves. as these two people who are, in theory, the closest connections either of them have certainly at work.

And yet there's still this kind of gulf they're trying to cross. And so much so that Danny has given Marshall the like, I guess get your life together, dude, talk. Before we get into sort of the episode slightly beat by beat, I want to hit some emails we got. We're not doing a cutesy, jaunty little email for this show just because I think we're too far into the serious tone of the show to get cute about it.

So that's the choice we've made. Maybe a saving grace for us on that. A good decision for once. Also, I did promise our producer, Kai, that I would plug our live show at the top of the show. And I did not do that. But this podcast is going up theoretically on Tuesday, August 11th. And on Friday, the Friday of this week, August 14th, we are doing a live show at the Televerse TV festival. 11.15 a.m. on a Friday.

Yeah, that's our time. It's a curious time for a. a live show, but that is what we are doing. It is when we record many podcasts more or less. Oh, yeah. So that's our zone. This bizarre energy, that is what we will be bringing to the show on Friday. Our plan right now is to do some sort of best of the year so far, but competitive draft style, ringer style, unleash Rob's worst friendship instinct style kind of live show.

You are who you are, Rob. I don't know how to take that. I mean, lean into the reputation, perhaps. I just want to pick the good things in the draft that people get upset for some reason. I thought that's what we were doing here. Come see us. What do you want to say about that? You do have to buy a ticket to Televerse.

They have day passes that you can buy us. So if you want to buy that, you should, you know, come for the whole festival. Why not? Yes. But on Friday, not only are we doing the live show, but later that day, I am hosting my so-called life reunion panel that I am very, very excited about. So there's just a lot of great stuff going, a lot of great programming going on if you're a fan of television. which I presume if you listen to this podcast, you are.

Anything else you want to say about the live show? Well, there's all that great programming, but foremost, we are there. And there will be a show. There will be best ofs. There will be singing. There will be dancing. Joanna will be a quadruple threat on stage. I don't know what the fourth thread is yet, but we're going to figure it out.

Okay. Murderous drafting. That might be it. That is a talent of yours as well. Knives out. Knives out for drafting. Okay, so that is what we were doing this Friday. You know, come hang out. Come see us.

Please. And it is our plan to cover Furious week to week for the rest of the season. So that is something we are doing as well. Quick email check-in. Our listener Meg on the Danny Kelly front. Our listener Meg says, I don't know what to do with this observation, but the show has a plague of what I call Girl with Two First Name Syndrome. Catherine Grace, Danny Kelly, Ed George, Oliver Charles.

You know, just something to watch. I don't think that bodes well for Danny Kelly. I feel like those are the people who are getting knocked off. I mean, fingers crossed, Ed George. I'm not a fan. Megan and a number of our listeners wrote in with the theory that the young woman that, I believe her name is Elena, that Catherine was trying to help in the motel who, you know, is theoretically Isabel's sister. Yes.

Strong theory that that is actually her daughter. Oh. That the timing works out that that could have been the kid that she, in this episode, we find, gave up. Yeah. So any thoughts about that? I honestly hadn't even put that together timeline-wise. It does make sense. I mean, they could also be somewhat distant siblings in the pecking order.

You know, not unlike the way that Alice and her own sister are kind of like separated by age and didn't really grow up together. So I could see it, but I'm kind of operating on face that they are actually sisters for right now. Okay. Our listener Ray wrote in to say, I think that the show's greatest strength so far, showing how exhausting it is to be sexualized and are victimized in every single space by nearly everyone. Catherine is sexualized everywhere she goes and because it's the only

thing she's ever been told she's good at she uses it to manipulate and then naturally resents those who fall for it regardless of gender. I do worry for sweetie Steve Ray. That's the actor who's playing Alden who's fantastic in this episode. Save for now, thankfully. Yes. I

was so worried when they walked into the house that he was going to be dead. But like that, the fact that you were worried. That's what I'm saying. is incredibly powerful. Yeah. I don't know how... Same with that little girl.

Completely. That, to me, was the moment where the show, like, really clicked into place. Episode one is really good, but when you get to the girl's night with Mira in episode two, simply the idea

that this girl could actually be in danger is something that the vast majority of TV shows just cannot pull off. They can't make the threat feel real. And that's why she had to kill that woman from the shelter and stick her in the bushes. Again, pro-murder Joe.

The murderess Joanna Robinson, really coming on. strong. But I do think that inside of this episode when we watch Alice, you know, obviously they're drawing lines between Nora and Alice and Catherine and their various

flavors of rage and all of that. But Alice inside of this episode when she lures Marshall to her house and sort of puts on this whole act for him. Right. And uses language that is very similar to things that Catherine Gray said to previous

you know, her victims, but also her abusers. Yeah. The whole thing about like owning me. Owning me. Exactly right. That's the moment. So like I think that, you know, this idea of if you're going to treat me like this frail thing and then I'm going to pretend to be the frail thing that you've decided

to treat me as and then that is going to be the thing that sort of bites you is definitely something this show is interested in. but interesting to watch Alice use these tactics. I mean, this is a tale as old as time with any single sort of FBI serial killer show where it's just sort of like the agent and the killer. The mirror between them. And what DNA they have in common and where are they moving towards each other or away from each other in terms of their behavior?

And I think that feeds into this last email we got from Catherine, as far as I know, not Catherine Grace. Thank goodness. Who said, I would love to hear your thoughts on the role of law enforcement. and all of the moral dilemmas that the show is presenting. FBI is still law enforcement. Yes, Alice isn't a cop anymore, but she still works within the system that upholds, like, this whole problem. If there is a twist at the end of the show, I hope it's about how the system is corrupt,

and there's no way to dismantle the master's house with the master's tools. Alice works really hard throughout the season, and because she's brilliant, she gets evidence. This is like a prediction that Catherine's making. Alice works really hard throughout the season, and because she's brilliant, she gets evidence still, because Jay Easton has an in with the FBI or the NYPD he gets to walk three. So, like,

Catherine is wondering if the end of the season is not, everything is tied up with a bow and justice is served, but just a further condemnation of the system that we're all operating in.

I mean, we are five episodes in. There is not a bow big enough in the world to tie all this together. This is just not going to be a neat ending. I don't think the show has any interest in telling a neat story, which is what makes it so watchable

to this point. Clearly, this is a lot of the focus of Ed George right now as a character is sort of representing this larger, protecting the interests of power sort of fixture within the office and threatening Nora to do it, which by extension threatens Alice in her position. Like the chain of command there and the way everyone is getting squeezed, I think is really compelling TV. A perfect punchable face from this guy. And I also love that he doesn't seem stupid. No.

I think that there are versions of this character and other shows where it's like the guy who's protecting power is so drenched himself in power that he doesn't have to be sort of a smart operator in order to get things done because he just has his hands on all the levers. And so he doesn't. But like the way in which he and Nora talk to each other in the elevator when he sort of lets her know what he has on her and how he can discredit her, I thought that was just really satisfying to have. a worthy adversary for someone like Nora, who is a very smart person who is tangled up in her, you know, gets in her own way, as do most of these characters.

Well, especially someone who is smart because he is evolved. Like, not evolved in a sense that he has or says all the right things or does all the right things, but he's a political animal. Adapted. Yeah.

Yeah. Like a survival of the fittest kind of way, except in this case, it's like he grew more scales and is more slimy. And like knows how to frame things in just the approach. way to keep his job and survive the like, it sounds like pretty grim and brutal upbringing of his own time in the office and

then what he did to people like Nora in the first place and how brutal he was as a boss. And now he's the mental health guy. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Now he's just looking out for everyone's best interests. Oh, my God, disgusting. PressHtGV at Spotify.com if you want to email us about that or anything else. About your bosses who resemble Ed George. Correct.

And the scales that they have grown over the years. Episode five, pick a sticker, written by Dan Lefronk and directed by Desiardt I thought this was a fantastic episode. You know, the show, I'm not really feeling like distinct individual flavors between the episodes. You know, like I can really see a director's flourish in this one or that kind of thing. It doesn't really feel like that kind of show. It feels just more like a consistent, steady hand on the tiller of the storytelling. I think some of that, too, is we're kind of equally weighted between these two leads stories.

for the most part and the trajectories they're on. It's like you already have these two tracks. You don't need to get too cute in the way you kind of show them visually week to week to make it feel like Widows Bay or whatever. Right. I think the best I could say for it is sort of instead of the one where X does, you know, it's sort of like the Campbell Scott episode, you know what I mean? The Rob Delaney.

The one where Rob Delaney dies. The one where Campbell Scott dies, you know? There is like a creep of the week thing happening here that, yeah, It's great work for character actors. If you're willing to subject yourself to that, if you're willing to be like the pedophile or pedophile adjacent person, you know, there's good work to be done. All these guys lined up for this show, and I applaud them for it.

And they've been great. They have been really good. So we open with Catherine and Alden, you know, in bed together. And this follow-up of the end of last week's episode when she was talking about how she can feel her fingertips, you know, this sort of trauma response that She had been navigating where she's like, I can't feel anything. Isn't that interesting? And then, you know, Alden professes his love to her.

And my interpretation, you know, see, and I were discussing this, but my interpretation was like, that was a healing moment for there was something, like, traumatized inside of her that was somewhat healed so that she could sort of feel the end of her fingertips again. And then by the end of this episode, when she sees what's on, that Hal has, what Hal has on the computer, she's back into her sort of numb, you know, when she's trying to mess with a sticker or she's back into the space where she can't feel things. And that's, you know, Catherine Grace, a murderer. But also, I feel emotionally devastated for her that she is like one step forward in healing and then immediately sort of two steps back into trauma space.

That's what I kind of found it alarming earlier when you were saying you were hearing from people who felt like they couldn't emotionally connect with these two characters. I'm in lockstep with both of them, despite the fact that you may not be able to get into their exact headspace, but how could you not at least try to wrap your mind around what they've been through and what that would do to a person? Yeah, absolutely. And I love your read on it. And specifically that sort of like regression back into losing feeling in her fingers again. Like, I think a lot of it comes from the idea that there is a kind of satisfaction that can come from this sort of vengeance. And maybe a kind of closure in a way if you can kill everyone who's in the phone.

or on the list or whatever, you know, whatever your victim set ends up being if you're someone like Catherine. But like that kind of resolution doesn't heal you. Like you have to do something else to do that. And it probably starts with having real healthy human connections. Like, I mean, Alden is that seemingly the healthiest human connection she has with anyone else on this show.

Even then it's still quite artificial and still quite fake. And I think one of the miracles of what Lola Pettigrew is doing is like the flicker of like, is that a real, that she's hiding within this larger speech or larger deception. Like there are these moments that are like blink and you'll miss them where you kind of buy what she's selling. And I have no idea what's real and what's not. But that's kind of the magic of this performance.

I do think when she tells how I just don't want him to be alone, right? That just felt so honest, like incredibly true. And I don't know. You're just like, okay. No, these two crazy kids cannot make it work. but is there a way in which this connection could be something healthy? I mean, something Yossi and I were talking about is sort of like, where do you want this character, Kath and Grace, to end at the end of the season?

Like, should she die in pursuit of her actual goal? Should she wind up in prison? Should she get to go to Zawatneo and, like, get off Scott Free? Like, what's the ending for her? And I can't tell what exactly yet what show we're watching here. And I like that. it's sort of similar to what you're talking about in terms of, like, is Alden going to be okay?

Yes. Is this girl Mira going to be okay? Like, is Kath and Grace going to be okay? Not in an okay that I think she's done nothing wrong and doesn't deserve any consequences for her actions. But like, I don't know, I get this way. Even with something like, did you ever see Red Dragon or read the book, Red Dragon? Yeah, see the movie.

Yeah. So like, in Red Dragon, where Ray finds plays a horrible serial killer. But there's this just like moment of true connection between him and Emily Watson's character. And it's like for a moment, you're just sort of like what could have been if they had, if he had found this kind of empathy or connection with someone before he did all this stuff that is sort of like uncome back from a bowl. You know what I mean? And so that's sort of my feeling when I see these two in bed. And she's just sort of like gently running her fingertips on his arm. And it's just sort of this like beautiful connection.

moment that I don't know if I want to say she does or doesn't deserve it, but I just felt myself drawn into it. Yes. Well, especially, I mean, this is why no show that I have seen basically has ever been able to resist that you're not so different, you and I kind of structures. Like, you want those moments of humanity, even in the murderers, even in the people doing crazy crimes or horrible things to people. Like, you want to feel that pull.

Yeah. And it's so tempting to have, and it's so structurally satisfied. And it's like it's what draws you into those stories in a way that can sustain having us spend half a season with a character like that. They're not just murder. They're not just murdering people. But you also hear in this episode and over the last couple like the parallels in Alice's life, right? Like there are parallel lines to a certain point between Alice and Catherine and Isabel basically. And they go off in opposite directions.

But like Alice was a teenage girl who was pregnant at one time too and her life could have unraveled in a totally different direction. And she ended up here. I'm going to be honest, here doesn't seem great either in very different ways. Like she's got a lot going on and a lot she's trying to work through. But needless to say,

she's lived an entirely different life than these other two girls have. Would you say it's almost like a fractured, broken mirror left on the wall of an unfurnished apartment? But a mirror you fractured yourself because you were seeking out something kind of resembling

the very violence that puts you into this mental space to begin with? It's not always a subtle show, but I really like it. It's not, but here's the thing. Like, it's not subtle. Yeah. But one thing I always appreciate with a show like this is, like, this show to me is all about survival mechanisms, right?

It's like whether you have done horrible things or have had horrible things done to you, how do you pick up and move on? Like, how do you take the next step back into the real world? And every character is dealing with some version of that. And so, yeah, it's not like everyone is on these, like, incredibly distinct journeys. Like, they're all interwoven. They're all overlapping. They're messy and really good and, I think, interesting. ways.

Yeah. But it's at least kind of cohesive in the story that it's trying to tell. And like, to me, the very real human responses to a lot of this stuff. There's also, of course, this interesting skin of Greek tragedy that the show is painted on top of all of this in that, like, you know, we start with the story of Medusa and episode one. We get the sort of various strains of fury inside of Greek storytelling, Greek thinking. And then I've been thinking a lot about, you know, the room that Nora goes into to watch these horrible videos.

And what she tells Alice is like, that's your reward. Yeah. That's what you want. If you make it, you get access to that. You get to go into hell and hang out in hell and see how you do if that's a place you spend time with. Like, see how you cope. and if you don't wind up drinking a straight rye whiskey out of your Stanley or something like that at the end of the day. So, like, yeah, and this idea of Nora as this sort of, I love this Nora character.

That's an amazing character. Really good character, incredible performance. But, like, this idea of, like, the avenging angel, but the cost of just sort of even spending any time being an avenging angel inside of this. And then also the compromises. Yeah. Like, the compromises she made to even stay here to make any. kind of difference is she had to at one point along the way, and we still don't know all the details of it, but she had to compromise on this Jane Doe case.

Yeah. In order to just even stay, it seems like, in order to even just stay inside of the department, you know. And so I think, yeah, the mirror just keeps winter. They really do. I mean, so many characters are making that sort of compromise. You and Yasi touched on that last week, too, with the teenage girl who was also, like, complicit in the trafficking of other girls.

It's like, everyone is getting pulled into these systems. and making compromises to protect themselves. One thing I loved about this episode is it felt like Alice was almost making the inverted choice where her, I mean, the bargain she has struck or the approach she has chosen to take is like, can you swallow your pain and your pride to basically like engage in this sexual or faux sexual situation with this guy who abused you for the sake of like getting your professional career back under your feet again. Like, can you get this case back and maybe some kind of power back if you're willing to

swallow all this other stuff? Right. When Nora's like, this is the thing in your way. Right. You can clear this out of the way. Then you can get back to doing what you want to do. And she does it in like the most fucked up way possible. Demented.

And like really good. When she pulls that bag out, yeah, I guess we're not. Let's not worry about going exactly in chronological order. When she pulls the bag out, Fiona apple kicks in. Yeah. Right. That's how you know. That's how you know.

And to watch her open the bag And for those of us watching it home To begin to process what it is she's looking at And she's looking at artifacts of her old life And you're wondering Why did she keep that? You know, there's a part of you that's sort of like Why did she keep this?

Why did she keep this clothing that he bought for her? These photographs of them as teenagers And all the sorts of stuff like that And for for that to happen and just the way that the photographs were stacked for you

to see them so young for you to see them actually quite recently like this photo was clearly taken on the set of this show like they are look the same age they are they have the same hair

that they have like this is a recent in these characters' lives photograph but there's more flash so you know it's point and click early 2000s photography sure

but you can see the the the photos of her bruised and battered face sort of like in the stack the way that the photos are being held. It's not like a jump scare that you like come across it. It's there. It's looming. It's just slowly being uncovered.

The music doesn't change. It's still Fiona like you know but her result like she gets sort of lost in this sort of my interpretation of the way that Emmy Rossum was playing this was like she gets lost in this sort of slight soft nostalgia

for who she was in the more innocent times of that relationship and the safety that she thought that she found there. And then seeing those photos of her own face puts this deal back in her spine in terms of what she has to now do to entrap Marshall, if that's how you choose to find it. And I think what she does only really works

because of that soft nostalgia part. Like because there is still a part of her that is holding on to, like you said, version of her that used to exist, the version of relationships used to have, like, who she thought Marshall was before he revealed who he was, all of those things. Like, there is a connection between them. And there is something that she is tapping into that is still there. It's just, like, covered up with so much scar tissue because of everything else.

And it's like, she needs all of that to be Catherine-level manipulative in this setting. Right? It's like using sex as a weapon to get what you want. Like, we've seen Catherine do it many times throughout the course of the season already. say nothing of what she's had to do before to survive. But it's like you kind of have to have that other part to tap into it for exactly this sort of thing. What I love about what both Catherine does and what Alice does here is that they are relying

upon the weaknesses of inside of these men in order to accomplish the gambit here. So like, for example, with Rob Delaney's character, a perfect asshole, right? but for her to, if he had just actually kicked her out when he first sort of thinks about like, okay, you got to go. Next morning, you got to go. I don't know that he would have necessarily survived, but like he would have bought him some time.

He wouldn't have set himself up. But she's like, no, no, I'll stay here. I'll do whatever. You know, she sort of lays out this temptation in front of him that he can't resist and this sort of like, I own you, my power over you, all the sort of stuff like that. So he's just sort of like walks himself. into this trap.

And similarly... He even tries to think that he doesn't want it and then he's like staring at the security cam at work, you know? You know, and then the guy who winds up being Campbell Scott's, like, son, the way... I mean, that whole sequence where she's just sort of like parked herself up at the table and taking fake Zoom calls is just like incredible. But she's just sort of like relying on, you know, again, all of the characters inside of the show are quite smart.

Yeah. And so the cunning that she... uses in the way in which she knows how to manipulate people and find out where their weaknesses are and where they're sort of like were too liberal to throw this woman out of our house sort of she folded that boy up into some tintfish she just sealed them right up it was nothing tin fish boy what did you think about tin fish coming back in another show so soon uh fitting and alarming yeah but it's it's kind of in the zeit guys you know but you i mean look yuppie liberals of a certain kind do love tint fish. It's happening

its moment in the last couple years. But yeah, what do you think about the trap that Alice lays for Marshall here? The seduction is not just her and sort of like Emmy Rossum said in an interview with Golderby that it was like her idea to put his hands on her throat and stuff

like that. And then how the alcohol is sort of like woven into that, this sort of like breaking of his sobriety resolve at the same time. I mean this is excruciating to watch and so well done for exactly those reasons. I think there's a couple different elements.

One, just the idea of Alice as basically a compulsive liar is something we've established all throughout the season. You give this girl any chance to tell a version of her backstory that is not real and she will do it for the sake of getting like one inch closer to the things that she wants. But then there's also this part of it where, I mean, frankly, just the idea that a TV show in 26 would have a victim of sexual, like of domestic violence,

seduce her abuser using her sexuality, that it's willing to do that, like the balls on this show, frankly, the three-dimensionality of these characters. Like, I just think a lot of shows fall into what can be a very understandable trap when they delve into things like domestic violence of they try to take it so seriously.

And it's very well-meaning, I think, in a lot of cases where it's like, this is what this character becomes. It's very precious. It's very precious. They are confined to the space. Everything they do in their life is through the lens of this thing. And part of what I appreciated about this sequence and the fact that she would even do this in the first place

is that being assaulted doesn't change you from being a human who wants other things. There's a lot of stuff going on in Alice's head. I wouldn't even deign to know what's going on up there. But she wants to know who this murderer is. She wants to get back on this case. She wants resolution. She wants to figure out what happened to these other girls and women.

And she wants to know who, which assholes in power are implicated in this. Like, she wants to go back to work. And this is the thing standing in her way. And her way of dealing with it is not super healthy. But it is a thing that she wants. And I like that even the damaged part of her is willing to subject herself to something like this for the sake of a weird, bizarre outcome that, like, I would never have expected it. It just makes for good TV. Well, similarly with Kath and Grace, the fact that she's like in order to, I mean, she could just meet these guys and shoot them in the street.

But that's not what she's looking to do. She's looking to torment them. And part of the torment is, I mean, she has sex with them. And she makes them believe that she wants to and that she cares about them and all these other things in order to make the vengeance feel like taste that much more delicious for her. In this Gold Derby interview, this is what Emmy Rossum said about sort of a lot of what you're saying about the compulsive liar aspect of Alice. and then also the kernels of truth that exist inside this interaction she has with Marshall, right? So she says, I think that Alice is a shapeshifter. It's almost like she's acting a lot of the time,

but we get to see her vulnerability and her truth when we're alone with her. So she was saying that to underline the section of the episode where we watch her get ready. That's like the most truthful Alice because no one else is observing her. It's just us and her and the broken mirror. She goes on to say, but a lot like what I think acting is she's often using the truth to make a trick work or commitment to a truth to make a trick work. And so we see her shape shift into a softer, younger version here. Her clothes are different. Her approach is different.

I want her voice timber to be different and subtler and softer. There are some things that she's saying that are true. She's a little bit drunk. She did have a terrible day at work. She's wearing these old clothes. She's really bad at decorating the house. But she's saying them in a way that lures him in and won't make him suspect that her ultimate goal is to waterboard him with whiskey, to tempt him to lure him to lure him. him in and to compromise his sobriety.

I have two logistical questions about this episode. One is, do the cops show up that quickly even if it's nosy neighbor Margaret who's calling in the I saw a drunk guy outside? You already know that they don't. Also, Margaret has called the police many times. And the station is like, okay, this woman again. Exactly. Take your time.

Okay. Number two, have you ever in your life seen a wanted poster of someone? No, and multiple people are seeing it and calling it in and register. Yeah, here's the thing. I was like, where would I even find one? My issue is in part the wanted poster and in part Alice's recognition at the end of this episode in a distorted reflection that the woman in front of her is in fact the girl she has seen at like age 14 in a photo. I simply could not do it, but I'm not an FBI agent, you know. I'm not a detective of her caliber.

You don't pay a lot of attention to things, Rob. No. That's deeply untrue. Yeah, the water poster really got me. For both Alden. Yeah. When Alden has it, but then also the other care worker is like, I saw it, I called it in. I was just like, where does one find, like, are we, is it like the next door app?

Is that what we're looking on? There's also like crime. Like, when I lived in Oakland, I lived with a guy who would check the crime reporting. app like all the time and I was like I was like what how is this helping you enjoy your life here in Oakland California it's not it's not keeping you safer it's not it's not doing anything but perhaps that is like a place where a wanted poster might come up but other than that I don't Facebook I don't know where one finds a wanted poster on a bulletin board at the post office right right your local coffee shop a bodega perhaps I don't know that was those are just some logistical questions I had

about communication of information. You know what? Plot needs must. People needed to know that she was a wanted fugitive. And so, you know, the word is getting out. Should we talk about Campbell Scott? How? I would love to.

Roger Dodger himself. Okay. So the idea of him being adjacent to a kind of pickup artistry, if not womanizing, if not who knows what's worse than that in Roger Dodgers' life. I really missed you, Rob, because I was just about to ask you what role you most associate with Campbell Scott. That's it. is Roger Dodger.

It is. A movie that most people listening to this podcast have not seen, but it is Jesse Eisenberg Campbell Scott, early Jesse Eisenberg.

And it's about a young man who learns from his uncle how to pick up women. Or how not to. They learn from each other along the way. Honestly, I think it would hold up. I think it's very knowing

about how slimy it is. Roger, Dodge. It's such a wildful. Well, what's yours? What's your touch point? Singles? Where are you? Singles is a good one.

The Spanish Prisoner is one I really love. I think seeing Hope Davis and Campbell Scott, who were just sort of like twin icons of a certain era of late 90s indie film is really fun. Low, here we are in the muck and in the trenches from our sort of whimsy era of independent cinema. But Roger Dodgers is a great answer, and I'm proud of you for it.

Thank you very much. But Campbell Scott, I'm used to liking. Campbell Scott. And so obviously the show is leveraging that with a number of actors that they've chosen to use here. And for him to plead his case as someone who's on her side, and I've got my laptop here, and I've got information, and we can take him down together. And he's a piece of shit, and I've been wanting to take him down. And not only that, but also when she's talking about getting married and she gets the wedding dress out and he's sort of, with like yes anding her and supporting her.

As he sobs. And then she like turns her back and he's like, I'm going to fucking die here. I thought all of that was really good. It's an amazing scene. I also think I love this layer of Catherine too where, I mean, again, the psychoanalysis I think is a dangerous, slippery slope to get into with her

where of like why she does the things that she does. But it does seem like she wants in the arrested development way that you and Yasi were talking about with her, like the approval or the support of these men at times. Like she does kind of want him to say that she looks beautiful in the wedding dress. Yes. And she does want like, I love that her like signature move is like pillow talk. Like she drugs these guys into oblivion and then lays one inch from their face.

Yeah. And it has like this real unguarded moment of intimacy with them in which they cannot move. They are subject to whatever she wants to say. And it's like there is like, look, it's not tenderness. I don't know what it is. But, like, there is something that she is clearly looking for from these men beyond just killing them. Although, like, the killing them seems pretty satisfying, too. Well, I do think it's interesting that, like, we have not been taken inside the actions of this horrible photograph that we've seen.

And obviously, there are, like, horrible abuses there. But I guess, based off of my unfortunate time with Jeffrey Epstein documentaries that I watched when we were covering industry, there is this story that a lot of these abusers tell themselves that they are helping these young women. We are giving them things they didn't have access to. Yeah, like money, opportunity. This is this was the Glenn Maxwell, DeFrey Epstein, logline was like, we are giving them opportunity. We are giving them clothing. They couldn't have job opportunities they couldn't have.

You know, we are helping them. Actually, they're horribly abusing them. sort of like the way in which it's wrapped up in this pretensive care. Yeah. And so I think the way in which she is dishing that pretense of care back to them while destroying them at the same time, I think is really interesting. I guess my question for you is like, do you

think that is a jab? Or is that an honest return of some of that care? Like, you know, like Oliver Charles giving her the glass of water and she brings him the glass of water. Is that a poke at him for knowing, like he should have known how horrible a guy he was? Or is it like in this weird fucked up way

I was in a hellhole and you did give me a glass of water? It's kind of more interesting if it's the latter, I think. If her emotions around it are more complex than that. And I think, and what is even more complex about someone like Hal

is for him to tell the story to himself that he was not one of the abusers. That he wasn't there until later. That he was protecting. There's a clue dropped here that we don't really know what he's talking about. He says, I was protecting her, protecting her from him. Right.

Pronouns, we don't know what we're talking about here. Presumably, that is probably the biggest smoking gun pointing to the Isabel's daughter versus sister theory, right? Of like the her in question would be Isabelle's daughter with Jay Easton maybe. Oh, yeah, yeah. And protecting her from him, right? Like, I think that would be kind of where my mind would go, but there's a lot of tangles going on. That's a great interpretation, I think. But this added wrinkle also of Catherine basically admitting that she doesn't remember what happened.

Yes, huge reveal, honestly. You know, and so she's on this vengeance spree, but she's also actually trying to find out. Because she's like, I don't know who else is on my list. Because I know who is in this photo. Yep. I can find them. Yeah. But I don't know who else is on the list because I don't know what actually happened.

And so, you know, something I was saying to Yasi, which I was. I guess now is not true, but I was just sort of like, I like that the point of this show is not what happened because we kind of know what happened. But now I guess we kind of don't know exactly what happened. And I guess my question is what the alarm bells, it kicks off for me is if Catherine, in her various trauma responses, can't remember what happened. Yeah. Is she somehow in whatever degree, complicit in what happened? Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

Like, has she blocked it because something happened that she feels responsible for in one way or another? Or is the reason Isabel got tangled up in any of this to begin with somehow because of her? Like, is there a chain of events by which she feels rightly or wrongly responsible for what happened? I think feels very possible. I love the fuzziness of this and her trying to put the pieces together as much as anybody. And yeah, it could be a pure trauma response, like dissociative, like just like blocking out what happened that night because it was so awful. such a terrible moment. It could be. We're told repeatedly, these girls are just like pumped full of drugs in these moments. And so maybe she's just literally out of her senses. And this was one of

those moments where, like, I wasn't sure how much to trust the earnestness of what she was saying. But when she was saying, like, her theory is like she was literally strangled so much that her memory is bad now. Right. And so it's like there's so many ways in which this person has just been put through the wringer of life by these men, that it could be any of them or all of them all at once. And also the, when she tells the Hello Kitty story and she's like, I did this and she's like, actually, or was that Isabel? The way in which she sort of like blurred their experiences together. The, and you know, the sort of idea of like, I was in love with her. She let me look at her eye fucking sort of thing. So this idea of like, and the, you know, the woman who gave this backstory information about them in the previous episode, how she was just sort of like, there was something. Some weird going on there. It's something weird before we got here. There was something weird going on. So, like, this idea of, like, coveting someone, blurring your personality or your experiences with them and all of that.

All of that was already kind of in the mix before we got to this degree of damage for something like Catherine Grace. Especially with how little we know of Isabelle otherwise. Most of what we know is through the lens of either police reports that, I mean, let me stop you from the freeze framing. don't freeze frame and read the police reports. They are among the most heinous things you will read in terms of the injuries that Isabel suffered before dying. And I believe in episode four, there was an allusion to the fact that her face was unrecognizable

or lots of horrible stuff happening. But most of what we hear about Isabel is from a police report or Catherine's memory or like this sister-slash-daughter's memory or this like group homeworker, all kind of second and third-hand and fuzzy and 15 years ago. And it's like, we really don't know a lot

about her story yet. And so we're just starting to get these bits and pieces to connect the dots on of who Isabel was in the first place. Yeah, that's great point. Anything else you want to talk about that we have not gotten to?

On the Hello Kitty front, this is a sharp turn. I apologize to you and to everyone else. How aware are you of the fact that Hello Kitty is not a cat? For some reason, very. She's a girl. Yes.

Yeah. For those not in the know. Okay. Hello Kitty is a human girl. Yeah. I don't know if she's wearing a cat mask. I don't know if she did like a nip-tuck style, like make me look like a cat. A hunger game sort of capital.

A lot of plastic surgery happening there. I don't know what happened. But she has, I believe, herself, an actual cat, which feels fucked up. Look, it's not my area. I'm more of a, more of a like, like, Batsmaru guy personally, if we're going to dive into Sanrio. But I just, the second this came up, it was all I could think about was like, man, I forgot that Hello Kitty is not a cat, and it's fucked up, that nobody's talking about it, including Adriam Marado, who loves Hello Kitty. Do you think he knows that Hello Kitty is not a cat, but actually a girl?

I think if he did, it would have broken him. While we're here in Left Turnland. Let's do it. I want to go back to this email that it didn't really earlier because it didn't feel appropriate, but you've set the tone. Thank you. Our listener Moe wrote it to say, this email is about the revelation that one can make tuna salad with more ingredients than just tuna. and mayo. I've heard a celery being added, of course, but Rob's total dismay, near horror, overhearing the simplicity of Joe's recipe for tuna salad. I ask me curious, this is left or from Cape Fear.

I honestly did not know there was another way to make it. What does Rob add to it? Relish, mustard, spices. I mean, I feel like you simply don't really eat tuna salad. The answer is don't do it. Yeah. Because you're anti-Mayo agenda. I want better of all of you. All of you out there, and certainly a few, Joe. Like, I just want better for you than tuna salad. That sounds great. And here's the thing, if you're going to eat tuna salad and it's just tuna and mayo, for God's sake, season your food. Like, you kind of put something in there. What about something like Furakake in there?

That's, you were getting somewhere? Yeah. But also don't do it. Like just, there are other foods. Tuna sounds delicious. Absolutely not. No fish salad, no white fish salad at all. What about, like, a Niswas salad, like tuna on a salad?

I still wouldn't. You're kind of anti-tuna. Especially anything that's coming out of a can or a pouch or involves cheese. No. That's just so elitist of you. Some of us survived in college off of 75 cent can of tuna. Eat a 99 cent pop pie. You know, eat a cup of noodles.

Like, there are alternatives that I'm not saying they're healthy, but they taste better than that. Anything else that we haven't gotten to tuna salad or otherwise? I like you, and I think like most people, after episode four, very dismayed at the trajectory of Nora's character. Like her kind of recoiling, trying to cover her own ass, like buying into the security of her career over advancing the case in episode four,

very tough stuff. But I think Alice reels her back in a little bit and kind of gets her more invested in proceeding with the case. I think she does it in a very clever way too that speaks to Alice's like situational awareness and understanding of people of like, her appeal to Nora is not do the right thing

or like open this case back up for some moral reason. It's like dangling the puzzle piece of the not hospital hospital bracelet. of like this thing that she knows Nora was interested in in the case she did care about. You almost got there. Like you almost got it and I think we can crack it together. That being what brings Nora back in, I found to be like, again, just like a great turn for a great character in this show. I agree.

Where are you on my guy Frank Choi? Are you a Choi boy? First of all, no one is a toy boy. The miracle of Frank Choi is like he's such a wannabe guy's guy and also the most like unapologetic brown noseer I've. ever seen to a degree that literally everyone hates him. It's remarkable. Honestly, incredible work by him to alienate literally everyone in your workplace. Should we consider Choi Boys a Gila?

Only if you are the aforementioned joy boy. I might be a joy boy. It simply wouldn't be me, but I love what Rob Ying is doing. I think he's so funny. It's such a great presence to have in the office. We're again, like, everything else is ultra-series all the time. And here's just this fucking idiot. Everyone hates.

Yeah. When I said everyone is smart, I forgot. Frank Choi, not smart. Everyone else pretty smart. But I think an important presence on a show like this where if you are having people who it's like, this guy beat up Alice, these super rich men are involved in trafficking young girls. Like these people are truly awful.

Yes. And you need someone who's many, many, many, many rungs down who's just like, this guy sucks. Yeah. Like, you know, like. This guy sucks in a real basic way. He doesn't make my skin crawl. He just sucks all the time. And by comparison, I love watching it.

Yeah. I'm also, I'm a Yara fan. I don't know, Yara is here to be like pregnant, kind of over it, but all about mental health and is quite helpful inside of the department. She seems like a joy to have in class, a joy to have in the workplace, just a bright light for everyone who knows her. All right, anything else. The only other thing I wanted to circle back to is that moment where Danny asks Alice to come with him to New Jersey. of all places, as one does. But specifically, Alice's response.

Wow, he's coming down on canned tuna and the Jersey Shore. I don't think that's a controversial take. I think there are some nice spots on the Jersey Shore. Even that. You're couching it within couch. You're like, there is this little spot where the sun shines just right, and that place would be okay to stand for a moment is what you just said about the Jersey Shore. It could be nice.

It could be nice. The point here isn't necessarily that it's nice. He even says it's going to be freezing. It's probably going to be terrible. But you know what? Me and Montau. It's not here. What did you make of Alice's response to this, though?

Where, like, she seems touched in, like, her immediate response. Like, I think the gesture means something to her. She also seems, like, deeply wounded, understandably. And then goes home and screams and grounds herself and goes immediately back to work. But, like, what do you think she is going through in that moment? She did the classic Amy Adams Sharp Object scream into a piece of clothing move. Love it. Claire Daines isn't around either, so somebody's got to do it.

That one's not doing it. Maybe this is cheating to use something that the actor said, but Emmy Rossin said in that Gold Derby interview, she said when she was talking about Marshall and what he's in the way of, one of the things she said was in the way of her relationship with Danny. Yeah. Like just sort of like her unresolved issues around Marshall art. So it's not that, and I think this is, I already thought this was like abundantly clear, but like it's not that she doesn't have feelings for Danny.

It's not like they are clear. She says that what he does is get scared women to fall in love with him. Like, it's a little autobiographical. Clearly in love with each other. Like, clearly. And I would love for those crazy kids to make it work, honestly. But, like, the Marshall stuff is so unresolved and so in the way that she can't. It's sort of like she can't feel her fingertips.

Like, she can't connect with him because of this thing that's still lingering here. And what I like about to go back to the sort of, like, why she lays this trap for Marcipro. and you were talking about the motivations here. Her motivation is, I want to get back on the case. Yeah. And it's not vengeance for what was done to her because she did not officially report him when all of this happened in the first place, right? She didn't set about to destroy his career. Or we can, like, dig into, like, why she didn't report him.

But, like... It seems like she just tried to run away as far as she could, basically. She was just like, I don't want to be part of it. And then, like, he's the one who's, like, now showing up on her. case, you know? So it's not that she was just sort of like, I'm going to get him for what he did to me, to your point. It's like, I want to be able to do this work and also maybe go to the Jersey Shore with Scoot McNair. And I think she deserves it. I think we all want to go to the Jersey Shore with Scoot McNary in our way. This version of Scoot McNair? Yes, I do. He plays so many

dirt bags. It's true. It's nice for him to be like, it's still the dirt part of the dirt bag, but like, he has a heart of gold. You can kind of smell him. You can smell the cigarettes on him. You certainly can. Maybe that's like sort of the nice, like, reverse of this other casting we've been talking about in terms of, like, casting these sort of beloved figures as these complete scumbags. And then we're like, and we're going to take Scoot and make him just like the sweetest, nicest guy. Except I am very scared.

Not only, and I said this to Yasi, I'm going to say it to you too, just in case the show is listening and they can change the ending if this is not the ending already. I'm worried about him dying. Sure. But more than that, I'm worried about him disappointing me. Don't disappoint me, Danny Kelly. Please don't do that. Either Danny Kelly. Either the ringer's Danny Kelly.

The ringer's Danny Kelly has never disappointed a soul and certainly never you or I. No. No, no, no, no. An absolute saint. A prince among men. Well, let me ask you this question. While we're talking our beloved character actors who are doing heinous things on this show. Campbell Scott, clearly not a good guy.

The proximity to all of this human trafficking and having sex with underage girls, horrible. Don't do it. Should not defend himself in any context. His wife, Janelle Maloney, our beloved Donna Moss is here, at least my beloved Donna is here. Is Jean-Maloney innocent? How much does she know and when did she know it? That's what I'm worried about.

If she just thinks she's married to a lawyer for rich guys. You're putting Donna on the crosshairs. I don't know. You wouldn't stop for red lights to take your vengeance on Donna. I'm asking proximity to proximity to power. How many rings out do you have to go out before people start getting innocent? And I mentioned this, but I do think this is why, like, Hope Davis and Janelle Malone. are like really good casting in these in these very waspy with love white women in who are

daughter of or wife of these creepy men yeah um these very specific types of women i don't know i'm curious why is hope davis in this show she's not to have more to do she has more to do she can't just be shown up for an occasional interrogation no no that's not it no um anything else i think that's it i think we did it we really did at least for this week there's so much more to happen on this show, though. It's true. We've got five more episodes to go. Actually, I lied to you.

There is one more thing. Okay. Look, my freeze framing in the police files was not a good time for me. My freeze framing in Alden's room, though, quite fruitful. In particular, our guy's got a blue velvet poster just hanging right there, which might be a cry for help to a certain audience, but I happen to respect. Listen to some bad religion. Does. Also, I think, like, a predator poster.

I'm trying to remember what language it's in. It's not in English. Maybe Japanese predator poster up there. Great. Seems like he's doing some day trading. He's doing quite well for himself. Oh, I think he's got a lot of money. He's making it work.

Yeah. I'm interested to see what happens. Like, is he done with Catherine? Or is he going to be protective of her in some way? I mean, he did literally just learn that her name was Catherine. It was a real roller coaster of emotion for him between, will you be my girlfriend? Oh, wait, your name is not Vanessa.

It's Catherine. Oh, wait. Will you marry me? Oh, wait. You're a murderress. Is that your uncle? Is that your uncle? I lie.

I said we have five. There's only three more episodes. It's an eight episode season. So only three more episodes to go. Is Alden going to be okay? Is Danny Kelly going to disappoint me? Is Jay Easton going to get got? Yeah.

I'm really emotionally invested in him getting what's coming to him. Well, he's going to get got one way or the other. It's true. He does not have lung for this world. The question is can Catherine beat cancer to the punch? I would like him to get got by something other than natural causes. That would be my preference. feels more narratively satisfying, but maybe this is not a narratively satisfying show in the ways that we might want.

Anything else you want to talk about before we go? I'm just so excited to be podcasting about this show with you. I'm so glad we're doing furious. Thank you for teeing it up. Thank you to you and Yasi for starting us off with a bang. I'm having a great time. One last thing I'll say, this is one last quote from that Gold Derby interview, which is just something I didn't really fully understand. When she was talking about why Alice can't shower, I mean, Rossum was talking about why Alice can't shower.

it's not just the sort of like the trauma of the way in which Marshall used to like pull her out of the shower in order to abuse her. But she says she can't get into the shower not only because she can't shower, but because she can't take the gun into the shower and be vulnerable for a second. So this idea of like the gun and like needing it on her person at all times. I'm just going to end on that up note. Thank you to Kai Grady. Thank you to Jacob Cordette. Thank you to both safety and vulnerability and those that can somehow have.

both at once. Thanks to you for coming back from vacation. Thank you, Joe. I know you're going back on vacation quite soon. And thanks to everyone who come, preemptively, who comes to our live show on Friday. We'll be very excited to see you there. And we'll see you soon. Bye. Hey, y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit wayfair.ca. Every style, every home.