The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Furious’ Episode 6: Food, Showers, and the Holy Ghost

Episode Date: August 17, 2026

Jo and Rob break a pen in half to recap the sixth episode of ‘Furious.’ (0:00) Intro (1:04) Instant reactions (9:19) Catherine and Alice meet (16:02) The big reveal (23:25) Systems at play (36:11) Nora and Ed’s confrontation (38:49) “Waiting for Godot” (47:00) The shower showdown Email us! [e-mail] Follow us on IG and TikTok! Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney Producer: Kai Grady Studio Production: Jacob Cornett Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast. Meet I'm Jordan Robinson. I'm Rob Mojone. We're here to talk about Furious Episode 6. They make a noise like feathers. Rob, do you know how excited I get when I see the title of an episode and it's in quotation marks? I can only imagine. I mean, this is a particularly writerly bit of quotation marks, too.

So I can see you soaring. They usually are. They usually like, we got real cute with this one. They did. They waited for Godot. They did the whole thing. But this is plausible. He never arrives.

He never arrived. Yeah, who is the Goddell of this episode, do you think? Oh, the backup for our girl Alice. We're still waiting. Spoilers for Furious episode six. Of course. And this is sort of like, you know, we kind of, I don't know, cutely whatever, named our podcast episode last week,

Cat Meets Mouse because the two characters meet at the very end of last week's episode, Good Old Kath and Grace and Alice. but they spend this episode together. This is Tom and Jerry chasing each other around for a while. Correct, but which one's cat and which one's mouse? We often wonder. We're the endless question. It's the endless question.

We work at the ringer, so we have to say the word heat when we talk about cat-me-mouthed scenes. Well, sure. But this is lady heat. It's a different thing. Oh, okay. Okay. I texted you last night to say, I am going to ask you off the, at the jump, what the funniest

moment of the episode is. a very funny episode of, I think, of a very dark show. Agreed. Do you have an answer? This is a very difficult question. I found. You're like literally everything Alden does in this episode? So that's the thing.

Everything Alden does subcategory, anytime he's taking Frank Choi for a ride specifically, sub subcategory, my actual answer, when they are trying to talk to him and he just rolls out of the fingerprinting room. And Danny Kelly's like, go get him. And specifically the way that Frank Choy's. sort of bounds out of the room chasing after Alden, yelling, you come back here. Yeah. What word did I write down for that?

Frank trotting after him is what I wrote. It's a good trot. Would you like to officially join the Choi Boys? Well, this is the comedic duo I didn't know I needed. So I think I'm still on the Alden side of this thing. Well, obviously we're on Alden side. I mean, but you're the Choi boy. I am the Choi.

The way that Frank Choi is like, oh, you're tying your shoes. How long he stays in the crouch. I thought you wanted me to crouch down with you. And the way he just like sort of slowly unfolds. Right. So I just want to give my guy, Frank Choi, the credit for like, you know, some Rob Yang's specific choices that he's making. Just like really, really funny. Does Frank Choi seem like a good hang?

No. Does it seem particularly good at his job? No. Also no. Do I like him as a person? No. Do I enjoy him as a character immensely? surprisingly, though, what inspired me to text you

was not anything that Alden did. Okay. Marshall in the car, surrounded by beer bottles, listening to Down by 311. First of all, great TV season for 311 after Amber... Wild. You know, had such a key moment in Widows Bay. This is how I know our kind of hybrid demographic has fully arrived.

Yeah. Like, we're calling the shots now. Absolutely. Jake Lacey's out here, like right there in the middle of a guy. who would be listening to 311. I just, I can't even fathom how we got here. To wear it down is just like plugging a scene like this. I don't know if that that was supposed to be funny, but it was...

It was quite funny, though. So funny. And also Jake Lacey's like, I've had too many beers hair. You know, and obviously, like, this goes to a very dark place by the end of the episode. But, like, just sort of like the cut to him surrounded by beer bottles listening to 311 was... Got a huge laugh for me, honestly. The music supervisor on the show is just on an absolutely... I didn't even call out last week. I guess it was technically in a previous episode when Alden proposes to Vanessa, then Vanessa, we know as Catherine.

Right. We get a very specific Fallout Boy needle drop. This song called What a Catch Donnie that I'm like, I've never heard in literally anything ever ever, genuinely means a lot to me. And I was like, this is crazy that this is just like in the middle of this random show in this hilarious moment. But I know how much Jimmy eight world means to you. So learning that like fallout boy means a lot to you too is like, a really, I'm getting a picture. It's an important qualifier that we are talking strictly early to mid period fallout boy. And this is like very tail end mid period fallout boy. When everyone's already off the wagon, pre like centuries full arena rock mode, there's like a very specific zone there that really speaks to me.

And it's somehow just like in this show as is 311, as is sublime. The sublime was also really, really good. I was expecting. Oh, he was. He was singing along to it. To bad fish. The bad fish. Well, let me ask you this.

I have a few bands that I think we might find on Marshall's Spotify wrapped if we would have access to it. I would like your confirmation, your input. Give me your take on these. And to be clear, this is not a statement on the music of these bands, but you just meet enough, like, would-be cop-agro assholes in your life to know that, like, you know what, the red hot chili peppers is on this guy's playlist, right? 100%.

So that's a no questions. The offspring. Yes. Popper Roach. Ooh. I don't know. That's a maybe. I could see it, but I agree with you.

It's probably a maybe. Here's another maybe my last one, incubus, or is there too many feelings? Well, I mean, Marshall's a feeling his feelings. He is feeling his feelings, but in a very specific kind of wavelength that can only be captured by bad fish. What about limb biscuit? Oh, that's a no-brainer. Yeah. You know.

But here's the rober. a question. Kid Rock. I don't think so. I think no, right? I think Marshall thinks he's better than Kid Rock. You know, is he no? Does he think he is? Clearly. He thinks he's better than a lot of things. I can see him distancing himself from the Kid Rocks, even like the Cypress Hills, like, you know, not quite on that level. I'll be really honest with you. I mean, I don't think it's, you're not, you're not maligning these artists. I love Sublime, and I will sing along Sublime. This is not about Sublime at all. Anytime Supply comes on. But that's the thing. is like Marshall really thinks he's a sublime guy

and I'm like, I'm not sure. And you're saying he's a sublime with Rome guy. Yeah. He's also, I love that you went down this. Rabbit Hole, it's a very Mahoney Rabbit Hole to go down. I went down figuring out what the label on the beer bottle was to try to sort of determine what beer he's drinking and what that means, like what that's signaling.

You know what I mean? It's Schaefer beer. Is that a real beer? It is a real beer. It's either Schaefer beer or it either said, Shaffer, it said Shaf, and it's like the exact same logo with Shaper, but they, like, got away with not putting the R on there. That's possible.

But Shafer is owned by PAPS. It's very cheap. But not PAPS cheap. Or not PBRC. I think it has, like, a it's like a very old logger that PAPS bought. It's very cheap, but has, like,

I don't know, I was just, I was only reading beer blogs about it, and I don't know what the man on the street, because it seems like an East Coast sort of thing. So I don't know what the actual man on the street, but, you know, like... I was only reading beer blogs about it. Just incredible work. But, you know, like, some days you wake up and you're just

pouring through the text of one of our great epics, and some days you wake up and you're reading beer blogs. You can do it all. And it's both. I got into waiting for Godot and beer blogs for this one. But, um, I'm curious, PrestiHtivie at Spotify.com, if folks have a sense of, like,

what Schaefer beer would signal about, you know, if he was drinking like, Natty Ice or let you know what I mean like I would know what's the subtext yeah what are we you know because like if it's the pit or mayor we're drinking like very specific like Jungling Rolling Rock like stuff like that like that's telling us a story what story is Schaefer beer if indeed that's what he was drinking is telling us I would like to know because I don't know okay that's a that's a we aren't going to talk about the television show well let's go let's get back to the sort of cat meets mouse idea because yes I was thinking about heat and I guess lady heat um

Is that just The Heat with Sandra Bullitt? Honestly, actually, there isn't really like a counterpoint villain in The Heat somehow. True, true. They are the heat. They are the heat. But on a TV show front, I guess the question is, when do you execute this scene? When in a season or when in a series? Because I actually don't know what the plans are for Furious beyond this season.

If this is like a one and done kind of thing or not, I don't know that we know the answer to that. prestige TV at Spotify.com if you work at Hulu and you're like, we've already greenlit season two. Anyway, we don't know if Catherine Grace is going to make it out of the season alive. We definitely want these two characters to meet each other. Is, you know, episode six of an eight episode season,

the time to do it. I was thinking about some other shows. Like, I know you haven't watched Luther, but in Luther, which is a great, John Luther and Alice Morgan, great Cat and Mouse, but they meet the very first episode. But there's like, and then killing Eve, It's like, I think it's like episode five of season one when they meet each other in the kitchen.

Or Sherlock, I was thinking about Sherlock, because there's not only the timing, but there's the who knows what. Yes. So is it like, do they meet and neither knows who each other is? That's an option. Do they meet and both knows who each other is? In the case of Sherlock, when they introduced spoiler Moriarty, Andrew Scott's character. I don't think that's a spoiler. Well, like, if you were watching it back in the day

and you didn't know who Andrew Scott was and he shows up as a completely different character. True. So he meets Sherlock. He knows who Sherlock is. We the audience don't even know that that's Moriarty yet. You know, so that's like a different flavor.

That's like we the audience aren't even in on the joke of what's happening here. So in this dynamic, we get Alice knows who Catherine Grace is. Catherine Grace doesn't know who she is. But I will say watching this episode, I actually wasn't sure until she definitely does cotton on, there were some of the earlier inactions

like when they were on the playground on the roof and stuff like that where I was like, how much does good old CG know and how much does she not know? And that's a really fun dynamic for the audience to be on edge about. Well, Alice is like, understandably, she's under a time limit.

She has an hour to get Catherine's trust to flip her into being an asset into this larger investigation. So she understandably pushes a little too hard, too fast at certain points. Like throwing Isabelle's name out, willy-nilly, just like really trying to speed things along. But then pivoting to the weather as she was instructed by Nora. Very canily. I think clearly Catherine has her antenna up and is like, there's moments where she's like,

this isn't quite right. Something's a little off here. But also they're just building a pretty natural rapport. There's so many great things about this episode. I love it. I love a real time episode, basically, in this case. I love the cat meets mouse, like, the impact of that and them getting to actually spend time around each other and not just have a cup of coffee at a diner and then go their separate ways. Like, these two characters are getting to know each other.

And by extension, we're getting to know Catherine a little bit. Like, she talks more about herself and what she's been through in this episode than in any of the previous episodes. And what, you know, this depersonalization, derealization language, which is a subject we were dancing around, but to get this like, actual, you know, naming of it and sort of her explanation of it later when she's like, these aren't even my hands, all of these things that she says. Yeah, the, we're not so different you and I experience of this episode. The way in which Alice, and we talked about this last week, but the way in which Alice's lies are best told, cloaked in this sort of curtain of truth. Yes. You know what I mean? So when she says, when, Kath and Grace says, you're a

the wrong spot. She's like, like, fuck you, mind your own fucking business. And then she's like, and then she talks about her boyfriend threatening her. And then later, like, when she tells the story of he left me there and I was still conscious and I thought he was going to get his gun to kill me, like that sounds like a true story. Yeah. Of what actually happened between her and Marshall. And so that when Marshall is, you know, has her pinned to the car at the end of the episode and Catherine Grace rolls up, like there is, she's like, I know there's truth. We talked about it in the shower. I knew you were actually afraid. of showers.

And that's what makes Catherine Grace such an interesting character because of her instinct around human behavior and the way in which she can read people, which is why I wasn't sure what she knew when she knew. She knew something was wrong, but she was also ferreting out truths at the same time. And I thought that was really interesting. I mean, I think we learn a lot about both characters and why they might be able to bond to each other in this episode. For Catherine, it's not only that she's able to suss out these truths, but like being

such a great liar herself. I imagine there's just like a trade craft and kind of seeing game, recognized game, and like picking out the shower detail from this otherwise word salad background that you're getting. And then as a counterpoint to that,

I mean the huge reveal at the end of this episode that Alice, I would presume, based on the name and the file, is on this laptop, on this hard drive, the flash drive that Danny Kelly has at the end. Yeah. Of course she would have a unique insight into the way that someone like Catherine might behave

and might think. And her proximity to the case is, of course, like something that would get you thrown off it if people knew about it, but makes her so well suited to understanding

and following Catherine and also to having the bigger field of view as to what this is actually about, which for her, it's clearly and has been about, like, Jay Easton. Like, how do we get

the structure that made this possible as much for Catherine as it did for her? How much do you think Alice knows about, like, that there's a video

out there of her, that it's connected to Jay Easton, in it all, you know, like she had experiences of being out in the world as a teen, being, you know, pregnant and unwelcome by her family. And then, you know, in at least as sexual encounter that put her on tape that put her on this laptop, you know what I mean? And so, but we don't know the full story of how that all came about.

So, yeah. We don't know what she knows. But I think the great irony of this is she's spending this whole episode trying to convince Catherine to come in and inform, testify, like work in their case against... In the system. Which, I mean, we can get into all that in Catherine's reservations. But we learn by the end that, like, Alice herself could fulfill the same function. Like, she could testify.

About what? Well, assuming that she had a sexual encounter with Jay Easton when she was a minor. Like the same thing that she's asking Catherine to come in and attest to. I get... Possible. I didn't read it that way only because... I feel like we would have gotten a different performance from her around like who, like Jay Easton as a person.

Do you know what I mean? So do you think she doesn't know? I mean, for one, based on Jay Easton's M.O., like these girls are drugged out of their minds in a lot of cases. She may not even know who it was that she was with or how old they were or what it was. Like clearly got pregnant and clearly was taken advantage of, but she may not have the details in the same way that Catherine doesn't have all the details. Something I said last week is like, am I worried about whether or not Danny Kelly is going to make it to the Jersey shore? I am worried about that. But what I was more worried about is that he's going to disappoint me.

And like when he saw the video on the laptop, you know, and he was horrified and closed laptop. But I was like, how is he, what is he going to do with this information? Don't let me let me let me ask you this. What is the good option? Like, what should he do with this information? because the end game of this episode and the long track we get to get here within this hour is like

Nora has basically been kicked out of her post running C20. She's going to be on whatever kind of leave for whatever kind of substance abuse program the FBI has. Who do you go to with the flash drive when you are a cop on this joint task force? Ed George is running it on the FBI side.

We see our first glimpses of the kind of police apparatus in terms of the leadership in this episode. Like what is a Danny Kelly to do that will not lead this information in these videos to just be suppressed in the way that everything else has been suppressed. I think the first person he needs to talk to is Alice. You know? So the guy who had trouble talking to Alice

about literally anything that's ever happened to her is going to go to her and say, I have seen you at 14 on a video on this flash drive. I'm not saying that he will, but I'm saying that's what he should do. For sure. But that to me is part of the tension at the end of this episode. Right, because there's no one.

else, I mean, Nora would be the only other person, but there's no one, you know, you're not going to go to my guy, Frank Choi. No. You know, Marshall is, I don't know, dead in critical condition? I have my questions about what's going on with Marshall. Yeah. Like, do we... Where was he shot? It seemed like kind of a gut rib type situation.

I think he's going to be alive. My concern is that he's going to be like hero cop after this shot in the line of duty. I really hope that doesn't happen. Like, all of this is, hey, like, we want Danny Kelly to do the right thing with this stuff. I think it's really hard to even know if you're a cop in his position where you should be going with information that is like as big a smoking gun as you could possibly get and yet clearly could be swept under the rug by the right people or in this case the wrong people in power. Is there not an option to delete Alice's video off the drive? I suspect that will happen. Submit the rest.

Well, if Alice's video is on the drive, she is going to be off the case, which I assume Danny also would not want. and maybe even any evidence that she has collected to this point would be, I don't know how valid it would be. I mean, I'm not a legal expert, but it's like, again, her proximity. Well, this isn't swamp law. Okay. Different kind of swamp law. Got it. Hey, y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair.

Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca.cair, every style, every home. What else do you want to talk about in terms of, like,

Catherine and Alice's interactions inside of this? Or Gene as a character inside of this episode who's like... I do love Gene. Yeah, Gene's great. But, you know, Gene... What a real one. I mean, she competes in Canning in the State Fair. I was wondering about that.

Oh, were you? What are the competition parameters for canning? Is it not taste? I don't think it is. Oh. I don't think they open the cans. What? I think it is strictly...

Look, again, I'm out of my area. If you are competing in canning, I would like to know about it. You think they just like roll the can to sort of like test the balance of it? I think they test, for one, aesthetics. Clearly you want like an aesthetically pleasing pickled whatever in a jar. Also, they're testing the seal, right? The food preservation that is the purpose of the canning.

Sure. Do they actually taste what the canned goods? I would hope. Of course they must. But then you're violating the canning. Well, when you understand the seal as you break it. Yeah. I just think.

It's a question for the philosophers. How can one understand the nature? the seal without breaking it. That's my argument. Like, aren't we invalidating the very point of the canning if we're just going to can it and then open it in like two weeks? I wonder if you have to can it like six months to like maybe even several years in advance.

This is a subculture I want to get into. Maybe there's like a subcategory for like five years or more. Oh my God. You think there's like an aging. I'm learning that I need to find my way to a canning competition preferably at a state fair. And we just need to get to the bottom of it. We need to do some boots on the ground research. I really see you as someone who would submit something to a state fair, like a pie competition.

Oh, I would absolutely do it. The canning, though, terrifies me a little bit. No. No. Anytime you're putting a heated piece of glass into your oven to seal it. I've canned jelly. Like, I've made jelly from scratch before, and then, like, you know, yeah, you have to, like, boil the jars. No, it's very upsetting.

But, yeah, are you going to enter a pie competition? Is that what you would do? I need to work on my lettuce, you know. The crust can be a little fickle for me. I'm going to be honest with you. Filling, not a problem. What about like a cake competition? I think I could do cake.

I could do cake paste. But again, I need to work on my piping. It's all in the aesthetics. Imagine if you were a blue ribbon winner of the cake competition at the California State Fair. I would wear it to this podcast every single episode. You'd finally break your like no real stickers on the laptop roll and just slap the blue ribbon on it.

Fucking giant ass ribbon on that thing. People are like, why is there this centerpiece on the table that's empty? Oh, I'll fill it. I'll fill it. I'll fill it. accolades from my canning and jarring.

What if you don't get the blue? What if you get like a runner-up or something like that? Then I'm going to quit. Okay. I'm going to retire to the wilderness somewhere and get my shit together. Meanwhile, the icon gene is not letting, you know, any setbacks of the state fair. Whether she's winning or not, she's running this shelter-like clockwork. I just love this character.

And I love her attitude. And I love her like, I'm not going to turn you. Well, first of all, she's like, I saw. We did get emails from listeners about where one could find a wanted poster. Yes. the local news. And I was like, God, I don't watch the local news. Also, New Yorkers were saying, subway, subway stations.

Like, the dagas. Again, I think maybe this is just, we are disconnected from the public spaces where you would see such a thing. But yeah, the local news or, or I guess, nebulously online, a friend of my use was telling me that she follows, she doesn't watch the local news, but she follows her local news on, like, Instagram or whatever. So, like. Is that better? Better than not engaging at all, I would say. Yeah. I guess it depends on, again, what the kernel of truth and the widespread lie that is local news coverage.

I'm talking about like TV style Sinclair local news coverage. Oh, okay. I was like... Not like a local paper. Stop fake newsing. Be very clear. Stop attacking the media. I'm talking about the direct-to-camera.

There's something dangerous happening in your neighborhood like that. So Rob Mahoney, anti-Jerzy Shore, anti-the-Forth Estate. Yes. Well, that specific element of the Fourth Estate. Otherwise, you know, we're all in journal. listened together. But yeah, I mean, like, I knew the Bay Area, when I lived in the Bay Area, as recently as this year, yeah, there's like four local news stations that I would really, really trust. Sure. And so I need to get to know those stations in LA, but I would like to know.

But it also feels like there would be, anyway, the news, it's great. And you can see wanted posters there if you want to. I don't think that's where Alden saw it. I feel like Alden saw it online somewhere. It was online. It was on his computer screen. It was on his computer. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, Gene saw it. And she's like, I saw your face on the local news, wanted poster. I'm not going to turn you in. No. If Satan himself were here, I would not call the cops.

Making a sandwich. And so like, let's talk about these systems, right? So, you know, both Catherine and Jean are just sort of like, what good is the system here? How will cops help? How will the feds help any of these women here in these dire straits in this circumstance? the system that they believe in is the system of this shelter. Yeah, that they have created. Right.

That has its rules. That has its take a shower, like eat food, take a shower, go to Bible study. Like, these are the things you have to do to be part of this particular system. And this is the one. And it's like a, you know, for women by women. And the fact that Catherine worked there and was like helping women is like so devastating. Again, it goes back to that sort of like not to once again invoke the Red Dragon, But just sort of like this idea of like, what if we could have helped her even more?

Because there is something in her that wants to help other people. Yeah. You know? And so the fact that she was helping people, the fact when she describes having her own apartment and what it meant for her to have this place that was hers that she could come and go. And the fact that she was trying to take care of, I guess, Elena, like Isabelle's daughter, our listeners were like right about that, right? but like trying to take care,

just trying to do all these things and then just like couldn't because the emotional and physical trauma that she had experienced was too overwhelming. And it's just sort of like, it's a devastating story. I think the apartment story in particular of just like finally getting her freedom

and self-sufficiency and having it slip through her fingers because she just like couldn't hold down the right jobs, couldn't stabilize herself in the way that she wanted to. But you see the glimpses of that Catherine in this episode. I think part of what I love about her early interactions with Alice when I think she's a little more open to the idea that this woman is actually here because she is a sex worker who needs a place to stay.

Like you can see the part of her that used to work here come out. And like the way she talks to her, the way she vouches for like what this place can do for you. Like there is a, there is a warmth and optimism in that character that she rightly has not had a chance to flash in any of her other encounters with other characters this season that I think just sets up the heartbreak even more. when you learn more about what happened to her. She says from the jump, you know, because we go slightly back in time and watch her arrive there and talk to Jean and say, they're going to get me soon. Like, it's almost over. You know, this is something she said to Hal, like, I don't, I'm not trying to survive this, right? I'm trying to avenge my friend, figure out what happened, avenge my friend, and then they can do with me whatever they want to do with me.

So they're going to get me soon. And then the way she almost She almost wanted it To happen inside of this episode Where you know Where she like has cornered Alice could have left her there Doesn't leave her there

But she's just sort of like Where is everyone? Like you said they were coming Where is everyone? And then you lied to me And then all these other things But just sort of like Like there was a part of her

That decided it was already over And there was like some kind of relief in that It was just sort of like She was surrounded There was nothing she could do At that at that junk sure. And then for her to shoot Marshall, great stuff.

And then run off in this very reluctant way. I just really liked how all of that played out. I mean, I adored the way this episode ended. And the double back specifically for Catherine Grace, just the true girl's girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Really showing up. I think here's the thing within this episode. And we talked about...

I mean, it's Lady Heat. So, yeah. Look, you kind of make it. I think weirdly enough Frank Choi kind of loops into this too where, or less him, more Danny Kelly with Alden. Part of why this show works, we talked about it sense of humor and the kind of counterbalancing force of that. Having a buffoon like Frank Choi in the mix, I think it's really important tonally to make us not just be in dire straits all the time. This show understands the power of like a knowing look. And I think some of it, like a lot of it's for comedic effect.

A lot of it's Danny Kelly and Alden being like, I get it. Yeah. This whole fucking thing. It's crazy. Like, we can have this moment together. Yeah. And I honestly think a lot of it is kind of like in the, like the Liz Maryweather way. Like this is like a Jake Johnson superpower to me.

It's like he can sell that. We're all laughing together at this moment. And here at the end of this episode, after Marshall gets his ass shot for being a dick and an abuser yet again, you get to like, what do you want me to do with this guy knowing look? And that like moment of pregnant pause where the answer is obviously fucking kill him. Right. But she's not going to say. They fucking kill him.

And so you get this kind of middle gesture that is like honestly amazing and potent. And I just like, I could not love the double back sequence anymore than I do. But this moment of like, are you ready to cross this line with me? Like I know this is in you. This fury is in you. Like you've experienced this. I'm offering you my services. This is something I'm particularly skilled at, right?

But you have to say you want it. it and then join me on this other side of the law. And she's not ready for all that. The Alden-Dany stuff was really good. You invoking Jake Johnson, I was thinking a lot about like Max Greenfield and Jake Johnson and like, and you know, New Girl, which was ostensibly a show about Jess, like, really became a show even more about like those three guys and sort of their dynamic and watching Alden and Danny and Frank like sort of fumble bumble around the office like really made me think

of all of that. It was really funny. But then you get this Danny Alden, you know, real heart to heart, you know. And I mean, Danny just continuing to endear me to him when he's like, let's just get some ink. Break a pen. I don't know. But like, you know, him just saying like, she probably killed your mom or like, is it? love if you don't know her name. And then for Alden to say, like, you think love is someone doing

everything exactly what you want them to do. That's fucked up. I thought that was like incredibly profound actually and like really, really good. And then, you know, his, Alden talking about how like, you know, how hard it is to find someone who looks at me and doesn't just see the chair and all these other things. And I've been told my whole life, I was like unlovable and I didn't deserve this. and now I finally found it and you want to take it away from me or want to tell me that it's wrong in some way. When he says,

don't let her die to Danny after he, like, indicates where the USB drive is, says don't let her die. And the way that his eyes are filled with tears and they're still filled with tears when he just rolls into continuing to fuck with Frank Choi. I don't respect you. Yeah.

But his eyes are still so sad. Yeah. when he's just like zipping away from him into the elevator after having fooled him yet again. I just think this is an incredible performance and an incredible episode. I mean, we were so worried that Catherine was going to kill Alden last week based on just seeing too much, knowing too much. This is not a character who leaves a lot of loose ends dangling. This week, my concern was almost that he was going to get sidelined,

that Alden would be brought in for quite, like he would have his initial funny moment at the house, and then they would bring him into the office, and we'd basically never see Alden again, or minimally. He carries half this episode. Yeah. He has a really crucial role. And I think not just for the comedic effect, which is killer, like all those scenes are really, really funny.

But setting up, as you say, the idea that he knows, like this is a character who is not stupid. He knows that he's been lied to. Yeah. He knows that he's been manipulated. And he has chosen because he wants to love and be loved to not care about some of that stuff so much. And I think I've really enjoyed the deployment.

of some of these characters who were in Catherine's orbit after the fact. A lot of them end up dead. Let's be real about it. But your Aldens, you know, like Oliver's daughter, characters like that, we have seen, like, vouch for her. Or protect her. And there's something up, like, there's clearly a, like, Catherine is a character who can be charming, incredibly charming. Probably if we want to be dark and honest about it as a survival mechanism, right?

Like, this is probably something that has kept her endeared and alive in some of the circles that she's been in. But when she wants to connect with another human being, it can be an incredibly powerful thing. And also, she puts herself in these positions, like, whether it's as a helper, a love interest, a, like, would-be advocate, like, that are just enough glow where there's not too much scrutiny into them. Like, people will take some of this stuff at face value. People will believe you to a point, even if they don't fully trust what you're saying. They're just going to, like, go with it. Yeah.

And a lot of that's because they want to like her. And I think that, you know, there's a genuine protective care that she has, right, for Alden and for Oliver's daughter. Steve Way, who is the actor who plays Alden, and I don't know when it's publishing, so I hope he doesn't mind me previewing this. My pal, Anthony Bresden did profile him for Esquire. So look out for that. But like, peg to this sort of, like, showcase episode for him. But what he is able to encapsulate in this episode is exactly what the show is so good at, which is just sort of like an uncanny balance of tone. I think tears in the eyes don't let her die in the same breath as like fucking with Frank Choi.

It's incredible. Is just like such an unusual melding of serious devastating pathos and comedy. Like half of this episode or two, like if it's Alden and Nora and I, Alice and Catherine are like the three sort of sections of this episode with the side of Marshall sitting in his car surrounded by beer bottles. Bad fish, etc. Two of those are comedy beats, you know? And like, you know, Norris like...

There's some comedy in there too. Well, that's what I'm saying. Two of them are. Like Nora's slapstick sort of like evading adores. And then there's like the horror devastation anger of it. Like there's always that turn inside of the comedy. But I would say if you're breaking this episode to... three parts. Alice and Catherine stuff does not have a ton of comedy in it. Some, but not a ton.

Them on the playground with her, like, kind of hurling herself over the playground. It was very childlike. It was. But also very fun. Again, there is something just like very heartwarming about watching them together in those early scenes. The Alden stuff is undeniably funny. And then the Nora stuff is really funny until it's not. And so it's just sort of like, this show which ends with a serial killer shooting the abusive cop who's like threatening the life of our Hero Detective. And I'm like, hey, Rob, be ready with the funniest moment of this episode. And by the way, that hero detective we learned was the subject of, like, grown men praying on her and filming her when she was a minor.

Be ready with the lulls, Rob? Like, that's what this show is. It's really wild to me. I want to, on the, on the Alden front, first of all, I know you did some, like, great freeze frame work in his office last time or his room. Quick preview for Slow Horses. Who do you think has like the sicker set up Roddy Ho or Alden? What do you define as sicker? In the eye of the beholder.

Roddy's got some truly depraved stuff happening. Sickness is in the eye. Well, I just mean like sick and like a sick. But like I think Roddy's got the tech for one. Like I mean, I guess what do slow horses make? I don't get the sense that they make a ton of money. But yeah, Roddy has. I mean, he's definitely into like Ethereum or something.

Yeah, there's really no doubt because he's got like new track suits. He's got weird, like illuminated swords on his wall. Like, he's got disposable income. So I'm going to go with that just because, look, the health needs are very different for these two guys. Follow up question. Which Bringer podcast should Alden be on, given that he drops not only a Twilight reference, the eyes of a killer, right? The Twilight reference. But also, I believe he's referencing the absolutely iconic 1959 some like it hot when Daddy's like, do you think he's, like,

she killed your mom and he's like, no one's perfect. That's the end of something like it on. I'm going to be honest, I did not clock that. I don't know. But like, it seems like that's the reference there. And I'm like the breadth of reference from Alden, Twilight to some like it hot, my guy's a cinephile. Well, we've been wondering who's the third chair on the big pick is.

Is it Chris? Is it Tracy Let's? I think it should be Alden. It's clearly Alden. It should be Alden. Yeah. All right. You want to talk about Nora and Ed George.

I would love to. I mean, just. just in the hoisting by your own petard, the Nora story in this episode, the hubris, but that hubris tasted real good. Yeah. Those moments where she does seem like she has the upper hand

and granted as a TV watcher, you're kind of waiting as you see this shit unfold to wonder like what other shoe is going to drop here. But like, the satisfaction of seeing a character who has spent at least a decade bottled up in the feeling of like this shady guy swept this case at minimum under the rug and has also treated me like shit for a long time

and getting to really take him to task immensely satisfying and then, yeah, I didn't go so well from that. I own you now. Like just wait until the operation's done, Nora. Wait for two things. Get the laptop data back. Get Catherine in custody.

One way or another. Right. You just have to wait. It's very tough. But the gloating, the performance, like it is super fun. It's really great. The whole like I was a little pup then

and now I know how to play. come on. I mean, this is... I got hair. My neck. I'm a lioness. From the jump, right? She's like, I'm going to take my time to get up there.

She gets in the elevator with this guy Ralph. This is a nominee for the funniest moment of the episode for me. My dad. Your dad, did he pull through? No? That's... Thought he would. It's just really, really good.

But, yeah, this edge-arch confrontation. this, you know, connection that she's made. She has cracked part of the case open in a way that she didn't understand. And we see, you know, I don't know if he's getting texts directly from Jay, if this is from Jay's daughter played by Hope Davis, like who's texting at George on the phone. But he is getting direct texts from the villains saying,

Hal's dead. What do they know, you know, keep us informed. So it's not conjecture. He is corrupt and he is. involved, as if we doubted once we saw his face, but like, you know. And she talks about sort of the, like, you mentioned this idea of his, like, I don't know, outward facing evolution, right? The Ed Georges and the marshals and the just sort of like we learned from the previous time.

And I was a victim, too, of the toxic environment that I was brought up in, right? The version of him at the end of this episode is like, I really want you to get help. You know, I really want to see you do well. Gross. Is this the moment when I get to read a section from waiting for? for Godot. Please do. Please, Joe.

Just take it away. Can we get the lighting modified in here? Just get a clear spotlight. Okay. Let Joe cook. Samuel Beckett's waiting for Godo, right? She says, she drops the line. They make noise like feathers, and that's the name of the episode.

But this is the exchange. All the dead voices, they make a noise like wings, like leaves, like sand, like leaves, silence. They all speak at once, each one to itself, silence. Rather, they whisper, they rustle, they murmur, they rustle, silence. What do they say? They talk about their lives. To have lived is not enough for them. They have to talk about it.

To be dead is not enough for them. It is not sufficient. Silence. They make a noise like feathers, like leaves, like ashes, like leaves. Guess what? Samoa Beckett. Ours had some things to say. That was never really in doubt either.

I love the repurposing of that as detective work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the idea that the dead speak is in every detective story of all time, like that you follow the trails, that you continue to understand these people and who they were, and that leads you to break the case. Not to mention the opening crawl of the Rise of Skywalker, everyone's favorite Star Wars.

Of course. Somehow the dead do speak. But again, this is like all, this whole sequence, while kind of devastating to watch it all unfold in real time as far as Nora getting the upper hand and losing it, you see everything about this wonderful character all here, right? How brilliant she is in not just having the kind of upbringing that would lead her to

make this quotation in the first place, but to make the sort of connection that Jay Easton basically gave Ed George the break in his career that made his career so he could own him, so he could call in a favor just like this one to get rid of a dead girl's body. And then at the same time, having like her pride to gloat about it too early. And then like her coping mechanism wielded against her to disqualify her in this post and kind of her future in this job. It is so much of Nora happening so fast in a way that I think is just like really brilliant writing and certainly just an amazing performance. And I just, I love how this ties into, again, at the end of episode four when Nora tells Alice

to take a backseat on the, you know, sit this out, burden as she is by her own guilt or sense of self-preservation or whatever the case may be once she sees that it's tied to this Jane Doe case. And that was such like a disappointing to me moment. Yeah. But that's what I love about the characters on this show is that they can like disappoint me. And then I'm proud of them, but I'm worried for them. And then I'm just sort of like, Nora, what did you think was going to happen? She also looked incredible in this episode.

The like the way that her blouse like matched the yellow of the FBI jacket. Oh, yeah. She's coordinated for task force business. She looks great. That idea of ownership, I think, is really interesting that you bring up. because, you know, she says, you know, and I own you now. Right. That's what she says right before she owns her.

But the idea of Jay Easton owning Ed George to a certain degree and that idea of ownership that's come up a couple times when Catherine in her seduction of Oliver is like, you know, I want you to like own me. And it's the same thing that Alice said when she was sort of entrapping Marshall of just sort of like, like I belong to you, you own me. Right. So like the way in which Jay Easton has consistent. considered all of these girls, you know, and that there are certain people who just, because of their immense wealth and power, just consider everyone, you know, no real person involved a real succession idea of just sort of like, these are all just like pieces on the board that I own the board and I own every single piece on the board. And that does, extends not just to these young women who are his victims, but also these institutions that he can puppeteer with his influence. Well, especially I think the inversion of that idea within Ed specifically, right? Like, I mean, you mentioned the, like, how Catherine wields that idea against men, right? The idea, like, I want you to own me as a manipulation. What happens if your technical subordinate at work, who is a woman, is saying, oh, now I own you.

And that's really the first thing that lights a fire under Ed George to do, basically anything all season. I think, like, clearly he is feeling squeezed from both directions. And this is the most aggressive that Nora has ever been managing up to this point. Yeah. But for someone who was already under the thumb of this very powerful man to have like unaccomplished successful like cunning woman also threaten his post from what he sees as below clearly is a bridge too far for him. And it like it activates in something in him that is clearly like evil in a way where he is now as she says like putting officers in the line, putting agents in the line of duty. Right. She's like, I thought even you would draw the line here.

Like that's supposed to be the cop code. Like they may not stand for literally anything else, but they are. aren't going to let other cops die. I do like the extreme lack of haste he shows when he shows up and Marshall's bleeding out on the ground. He's just sort of like, huh. Yeah, I think all of that's really – and, of course, the racial component that she brings in when she talks about this diversity hire way in which he menaced her earlier in her career. I really, really – and I mentioned this last week, but I just really like that Ed George is smart. Yeah.

You know, when we see him, she leaves the office, he's trying to figure out what's happening with the laptop, and he just lets out this very soft, like, fuck. But the camera stays on him because he's just working. And he's just trying to figure out what his next move is. And I just, he's not, I mean, he's, he's sweating. He's, like, feeling the pressure. Of course. Squeeze, as you said. But he's not desperate.

He's thinking. Yeah. And that's what makes him a dangerous and worthy aviative. for someone like Nora. And he, you know, within minutes, he's like, the laptop has nothing. I've called off the, I'm going to go pick her up. So, like, disappear her. Who knows what the fuck he was planning to do with her.

Or claim credit for the arrest? Right. But he doesn't want her testifying. So, like, disappear her or make sure she's shot in the line of whatever or menace her or pay her off or whatever he was planning to do. But she would be under his thumb. And then bounces Nora, you know, essentially from the department. And incredible work from Ed George, a piece of shit. And as an intermediate step, in order to bounce her from the department has already placed a preliminary call talking about the alcohol on her breath when she, you know, walked all the way up to his floor earlier in the episode.

So it's like all the little steps that he takes to protect himself, like, you can see how this guy has survived as a political animal in this kind of industry. And it's gross to watch, but it's good TV. And also to go back to like Nora and her fallibility when she when she says to him, I knew. they were going to promote you, and I wanted your job, I wanted it. So she admits that, like, it was driven not just by the system that was working against her good work, but also her own ambition. I'm just sort of like, I thought, not only, like, yes, I thought I could do good in that role, but I wanted this promotion. And I did that. And I've had to live with that. And now what can I do to sort of rectify that or, you know, alleviate my own guilt or, you know, recommit myself to

why I got into this in the first place, something I might have lost sight of. And I might have lost sight of, of, but have reactivated by dredging up this older case. I think so much of this show is an Alice and Catherine showcase as far as who those characters are and the depths of what they have suffered and what brought them here and how they navigate the world and everything around them. But like, Nora is an exceptional character. This is an amazing, like, tertiary or leadership figure that honestly in a lot of procedural and detective stories, we just don't get.

Like, we just don't get characters that are this rich in this way. Well, yeah, they just don't. This role, yeah, you're right. This role, I've seen a lot of great actors and actresses play this role of the, like, sergeant or whatever. And fun or good in their way. But we don't get the depth on them. And so the way in which this show is constructed as a story of, like, three angry women complimentary is fantastic. Furious even.

I do want to go back to the kind of shower showdown between Alice and Catherine. There's so much happening there. I mean, we talked from the Ed George perspective. He has made Alice a liar by calling off the support that was circling, you know, the shelter to begin with. Which, if there was any chance that's happening and there are flickers of moments where it's like kind of feels like Catherine might be willing to make a trade or barter or kind of like make some kind of arrangement. And then as soon as she wifts gets a whiff of the fact that like, maybe you lied to me, everything implodes. But moreover, the kind of larger conversation they have about what happened with Alice in the first place. when Marshall would pull her out of the shower,

when she made an unofficial report or comment about his behavior. And the idea of like, can you trust any of these systems and how can you, someone who has suffered from those same kind of like imbalances in the way that I have, honestly sit here and tell me that this is going to work? How clearly Alice felt let down by the system. I was wondering if she thought, well, if the NYPD has grew up like this, maybe the FBI will be like a better place and a more virtuous place

and then she's like oh it's the same it's broken everywhere ripped off the mask and it's the same guy it's the same guy it's still at George so yeah I thought that was really good I also thought I mean like we should shout out Emmy Rossum's drug acting

incredibly good and immaculate stumbling like doing but it's sort of like the way her face felt like heavy to watch how it was like hard for her to like lift her eyebrows or articulate words. I just thought all of that.

Yeah, the stumble was really good, but it was like almost more like, how do you get your face to look that convincingly, like, numbed and disconnected from what your brain is doing? Completely. And I love trying to read these two women and their motivations in all of this extended sequence, too, because, like, Catherine does double back to save Alice from Marshall.

Like, he has been stalking her. And again, like, using, like, the police tracking app to stalk her while drinking. then assaults her, then who knows what happens from that point, if Catherine isn't there to shoot him. And like she is doing that because they have had this kind of shared moment and clearly an identification of a certain kind of like, I see something in you that is also in me

and I'm like here to show up for you in the way that I wish someone would have for me. Do you think that same instinct is in Alice? And I wonder that about the end of this episode where how much of what Alice has been doing all season is I'm trying to help someone like Catherine? I'm like, this is someone who has been in a parallel situation to me if she has a consciousness and an awareness of that. And I'm trying to help her.

How much of it is like, I don't even really care about that aspect. I'm trying to get Jay Easton. I'm trying to get this larger power structure. It's just like the ways in which a show that is constantly interrogating women, supporting women versus exploiting them within the system. Like there's so much of a larger machine here that is leveraging everybody all the time and everyone is just trying to survive. to what extent does Alice, like, care about Catherine? Or is she a serial killer to hunt and a means to get Jay Easton? Like, where do you kind of fall in sort of that larger thought process?

I think she tremendously cares about her. It was never about justice for the Oliver Charleses of the world. Do you know what I mean? No. She didn't see like, oh, a fellow Elvis Costello fan? I must stand for him. But I think it's a great question about the Jay Easton because that's also Catherine's agenda.

It's true. Catherine's pointing them into direct. Catherine provided the photo. She's trying to direct the investigation. She was so pleased when Hal was like, Oh, delighted. The cops have the photo. And she's like, aha, they're doing the thing I hope that they would do.

And so I think, I mean, if your larger question is, like, at the end of the day, is Alice, someone who would just like let Catherine get away, possibly? Especially after she saved her here, you know? Like. Is this heaters' point break is what I'm asking? She's shooting the gun up in the air. to let Catherine run off into the wild. I prefer a point break if I'm being honest to do.

If this season ends with Catherine surfing the world's largest wave, I will ascend. That will be the peak for me. I look forward to seeing it. All right. Anything else you want to talk about that we haven't gotten to?

I think we covered most of it. I mean, I just fucking love this episode. It might be my favorite episode of the season today. It's mine. Yeah. And a lot of that is just like the tight framing, the pressure these characters are under, the ways in which they are all kind of struggling

and failing simultaneously, letting each other down, trying to support each other. And like, I just think that the way in which all these characters have been woven together is such expert stuff right now. And I mean, the performances are off the charts. What a great show. What a great show. How lucky we are to get to watch it and get to cover it. Press TadTV at Spotify.com.

If you have any thoughts about how to, like what Rob should submit to the California State Fair. Would you do, would you want the California State Fair ribbon or the Texas State Fair ribbon? I feel like I might need to, is carpetbagging the term where you like move to, a different state to try to win an election. I need to move to like, I don't want to call anybody out, but a less populated state. I feel like carbon bagging is different. But let's just keep it to the giant states of Texas and California. Which one do you think you're most likely to win?

Well, I'm cooked in both. I'm not operating at that level. These are professionals, you know? Well, yeah. You think the Arkansas pie bakers are not professionals? I think if I go to the Alaskan State Fair, I think, I have a chance because there's only like six people compete. You know, like that's what I'm saying. We used to bring

the population down. Those six people might be very good, but there's only six. I bet the pies in Alaska are delicious, honestly. What is the term that I'm looking for? It's almost like it's not redistricting. No, no, it's like a candidate specifically

moving to a state to establish residents so that they can run in that state even though they're not really from that state. So like me competing in the Idaho state fair. Right. That's the dream. Okay. Can I do enough with a potato

to really make that pay off? I don't know. I don't think you want to touch the potato categories. I gotta go non-potato. Yeah, non-potato. Yeah. If you're in Idaho.

But do they even respect a non-patent? I mean, if you're in Idaho, tell us about the state fair situation. I'm just trying to gauge the competitive landscape. Have you read the David Foster Wallace essay about the state fair?

I actually don't think I have. What book is it in? I don't know. He wrote it for magazine, so it's a collection of essays. I'll send it to you. I think it's a Minnesota State Fair. It's kind of amazing.

I mean, The Minnesota State Fair, legendary. Also will not be competing in the Minnesota State Fair. No cheese-based, no cheese curds, none of that. Okay. I would like to think about what I could possibly ribbon in, in certainly nothing 4-H-related. I don't know. I want to think about it, but I would also love.

Here's more than, like, moving to Idaho and, you know, getting involved in potato-based crimes or whatever. I think we need to find the niche. This is like the niche egot, like how you win an e-got. by narrating an audio book or whatever. So, like, what are the niche state fair categories that we could possibly win? I think that's the tactic we need to go for. See, I was wondering more like, perhaps in the style of Furious, although with less, like, trauma and justification involved, do we find a sparsely competitive category and just sort

to, like, make a couple people disappear and we win by default? Okay. So we're killing people now for the ribbons. I did not say that. Okay. Did not say that? That was your assumption? Okay.

I'm just saying they didn't show up that day. It's August. We're starting our campaign now. Help Rob and Joe win the California State Fair. You have to murder pie bakers or canters around the state. We didn't say that. Who are we to judge? Thank you to Jacob Cordette, who is here bright and early this morning.

We had an early start today so that Rob could go see The Odyssey again. Don't air out my business. He will have already seen it again once you listen to this episode. Shout out Kai Grady. Always. And we'll be back with More Furious. Can't wait. Bye.