The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Furious’ Season 1 Finale: Unearthed

Episode Date: August 31, 2026

Jo and Rob go to the beach to recap the Season 1 finale of ‘Furious.’ (0:00) Intro(0:26) Instant reactions(1:08) Mailbag check-in(15:54) Alice confronts Jay Easton(21:02) Emma Easton(26:48) Catherine and Alice(33:50) Catherine’s trauma(44:16) Greek mythology corner(53:29) Will there be a Season 2? Email us! [e-mail] Follow us on IG and TikTok! Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob MahoneyProducer: Devon Renaldo and Kai GradyStudio Production: Jacob Cornett Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast, I'm DeWater Robinson.

I'm Rob Mahoney. We're here with the furious finale. How are you feeling? Honestly, like pretty fucking invigorated. Okay. I really like this finale. I really like the possibility this show may continue.

I know, tantalizing season two prospects here. Heart Island is the name of the episode written by Liz Meriweather. Have you heard of her? Creator of the show. And directed by Corey Finley, who directed the previous episode as well. Yeah, so spoilers for this entire season of Furious.

Yeah, get out of here if you've not seen this yet. Spoilers for our speculation about what next season might be about. And anything else you want to warn folks about before we get into it. I think that's appropriate warning. Press TGV at Spotify.com. We do have a few emails I would love to get to. And then a few that I'm going to mix into sort of the conversation. First, to sort of like tie up a bow on our ongoing state fair hopes and dreams.

I just thought we should start with something light before we get to the murder. Why not? I thought this episode was breezy. Yeah, really, really cheery. This is our listener, Dawn, reporting from the Iowa State Fair, letting us know about sort of, like, I think this is your best path to victory, Rob. I think she's laid it out for you here. Let's hear it. So in the at least cookie baking competition alone at the Iowa State Fair, there are 30 classes, meaning like 30 different kinds of cookie you can win for. Yeah. So chocolate chip versus chocolate Chip with nuts versus sugar cookies versus et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, dropped, rolled, shaped, all into different subcategories, okay?

She says, here's the strategy she wants to share with you. The key is to attend the judging, which in Don's opinion is the best part and keep track of how many entrants there are in each class in the cookie world. A popular category like chocolate chip will have 30 to 40 entries. Of course. Why would we even bother? Basic. Meanwhile, something more obscure like, and I'm not making this up, potato chip cookies

might have three entries. This can help you game it by entering the less popular classes. So Rob, I mean, this is a personality question for you. Are you someone who would rather blue ribbon in potato chip cookies?

Or is your pride dictate that you must master the core chocolate chip category? The personality test is I'm already offended. Like, that this would be suggested that I or we would game the system. When you were talking about moving somewhere

just to find a less populous state fair? It's one thing if I suggested and another thing if someone else suggested. Don's just trying to help you win that blue. This is the paradox that is me though. As soon as I hear that, I'm like, don't tell me what I can't do. You know? Okay.

Like, let me win on my terms. But of course, the answer is the sweet spot in the middle. I have to say I'm not that moved by making a chocolate chip cookie. Oh, what? You put a little brown butter, oh, a little flaky sea salt. You think you invented something? What kind of chocolate are you using? Are you a bittersweet or semi-sweet?

I'm semi-sweet personally. But, you know, I was raised on milk, so it's like, we're all coming down together. But I think there's a zone there in the middle of less popular than Snickerdoodle, more popular than potato chip. Yeah. That we can win that feels like there's actually some skin in the game. Like a ginger? A ginger cookie? Could be a ginger.

I wonder what the fruit cookie distribution is. You know, I love a lemon-based cookie. Is that its own category? Is it with other citrus cookies, iced, frosted, glazed? Like, how are we splitting this thing up? I think in Iowa, all of those are on the table. All right. So that is a, that might be the very last state fair email we get, I was to say.

But PrestageTV at Spotify.com, if you have more suggestions that Rob can ignore in order to get him that. It's not what I said. All right. Our listener Gary wrote in to compare Nora's speech to Alice about, like, using people to Luthin speech to Lonnie and and or one of the best TV moments of all time. what is my sacrifice? I'm contemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see.

I thought that was interesting, especially inside of this episode, when we ask at the end of the episode, is there a path forward for any of these people who have been ground down by the system in one way or another? Is there a pass towards happiness? This is something we were asking at the beginning of the season, and sort of like, where do we want to see Catherine end up? Married in prison is where we find her at the end of this,

still deciding where she's going to honeymoon. But, like, this is a better case scenario than I dreaded we would find for Catherine. I'm not saying it's sunshine and lollipops in prison, obviously. But, like, there is some sort of, she ends the season smiling. Is it a sort of gruesome smile? Sure, but it is ending the season smiling. She got what she wanted. Nora thinks she's on the path

to maybe getting what she wants, possibly. Alice is the one we have to think about in terms of like, Alice has now taken a step down a path and is there a way off that path or does that path only lead to something horrible for Alice? I would only posit to you. Do we, you and I, people watching this show,

do we want her off that path? No, I want her on that wall. I need her on that wall. Every day we inch closer and closer to Hanabler and Will Graham every single day. And I could not be more excited about it. I mean, look, we can get through the ending and all that later. But as far as the Luthin part of this, I think there's like some fundamental differences in the way those characters function within the story and kind of like what's at stake and like what isn't possible for them.

Like we see with Daney, for example, there is a point at which you can say that's enough and I can leave and I can try to live some version of a normal life. But I did find myself all throughout this finale. about, of all things, a line from living piece of shit Ed George, when he's talking to Nora outside the house and maybe making phone calls, maybe not. And he asked her, like, what kind of person wants to stay down there in the basement in sex crimes? Right. Like, that's the idea. That's exactly what I think this person is going for. I could be wrong. But, like, in the Luthan mode, it's like, I have condemned myself to the basement, the sex crimes basement, because it's the only way through in this sort of revolution.

If I'm not down here doing this, then we're not going to go forward because certainly like the frank choice of the world, if they're left in charge of this department, are not going to push the needle on this at all. So I'm condemning myself to something, a place that many people would consider hell on earth. Yes. And I'm putting myself in that basement, in that room, in order that other people might see a son that I will never see. I mean, plus the adopting the weapons of your enemies, like all of that stuff, you can definitely see some parallels with Nora and just the kind of dirty your hands have to get to engage in this sort of police work.

Right. Our listener Floyd let us know just with a few nitpicks for this show that Floyd seems to be enjoying. But new federal agents are never assigned to their hometown for their first assignment. So the fact that Alice is sort of like working a case in a place where she grew up and lived is not something that happens. But her circumstances are also unusual, right? Like, she was kind of pulled into it sideways more so than actually assigned to this case in the first place. But now she's assigned here officially. Oh, yes.

Now in her official capacity. Yeah, yeah. Well, to be fair, do we know what borough she grew up in? Oh, are we going as granular as borough? I mean, it's not granular if those things are the size of major fucking American cities. Like, these are huge. Okay. So the Romo –

So the Romo – So the Romoone is like, the New Jersey Shore, what a piece of shit is, like, put some respect on the boroughs. I think I do owe the Jersey Shore an apology. I think you do. It does look quite cold, but also quite serene. Very mute me in Montauk. You know what I mean? Definitely. Okay.

Steve said for season two, and of course Steve wrote this before getting to see the finale, but Steve said for season two, how about a prequel of mid-career Nora? Same character we seem furious but allowed to do her job if only her drinking and in her demons didn't get in the way. Aside, this actor made a brief appearance in the leftovers episode nine as a doctor. So that's fun to know. But anyway, like would you be interested in like a Nora flashback of some kind? with like maybe a more optimistic Nora, knowing that this sort of more ground-down version of Nora

is kind of hanging over, the way that Cassian's death hangs over, Andor, et cetera, et cetera. I think the answer is, despite the prolific and or chat in our podcast today, I am very prequel skeptic. And I think it's really hard to pull off and very rarely successful. And so, like, I would rather charge boldly forward with these characters than try to, like,

tell us who Nora is through the bright-eyed, bushy-tailed version. I don't know that I would want a whole season, and I do think that Presti-Shevi has a flashback episode problem. But Nora is a compelling person that, like, I feel like there could be a Nora episode that I would be really interested in. I think it's certainly possible. Right. But I also like the idea, like we know based on her telling and Ed George's telling in certain senses, like where she's been and some of what she's been through. And like, I like the fuzzy parameters of that, I think, more than I would like to just see it for an hour. Fair enough. Okay. We got a couple emails about, and we're definitely going to talk plenty about Hope Davis and Emma Easton inside of this episode. But a lot of our listeners were like, hey, when you see Emma in the greenhouse and then you sort of pan out and see all the plants. And of course, Emma will talk about how she loves nice smelling flowers and stuff like that and why her greenhouse is so lush and plentiful. But our listeners were like, let's imagine she plants a plant for every, you know, girl that she's had to put into.

that room and then you see the number of plants in that greenhouse and how horrifying that is. I thought that was a great catch. And just like a brilliant visualization of like the vibrance of this like flourishing greenhouse. And I mean, also I think at the end of this finale, Emma does get to go free in some sense. Like I'm sure still chased and haunted by certain things, but doesn't seem to be held to like any legal account as of yet and is salting her own garden. But like there's some ground that can't be salted. there's a lot of things that can't be undone.

And so it's like whatever relationship she had to this place is going to continue on whether she's physically there or not. Yeah, I think that image of the rip in the bag and her just sort of sinking to the ground. Yeah. Also what she's wearing in that scene, she's got like a vest. It's like a very like masculine sort of, you know, she's got this like very Connecticut preppy wardrobe. The fact that like her tools that she uses to take apart these hard drives are in like an LLB in canvas bag.

I thought was like one of the most like Chef's Kiss touches of this episode. Is that not where you keep your digosser? Great question. It's a two-part process. Don't forget. Don't forget. I did have to Google what a digosser was. I don't know what the second part is.

I got to admit. Can't just physically take it apart. You have to erase it with a degosser as well. Like do the magnetism or whatever is happening there. But part one is like, well like maybe part one is degossing and part two is physically taking it. putting it into pieces. Maybe so. Prestige TV at Spotify.com. Sprinkle them, you know, bury them in your plans or something like that.

I don't know. On the Ed George human piece of shit at George front, our listener Adam wrote in to say Danny McCarthy, that actor was in somebody somewhere. A show I did watch, but I had not made the connection because he's playing a very different character here. And then also shouted out the film Good One and our hero Balthasar as great Danny McCarthy vehicles.

And so, like, I mean, I think this actor was tremendous again in this episode, and I would love, you know, somebody somewhere is an incredible show that I think has not gotten enough love on the prestige TV front, so I'm always happy to stump for it. With Ola Pettigrew, like, what they're doing in this show versus in say nothing, I can see the line from one to the other, right? I can see how that performance style and, like, the inclinations of that character and in that performance would translate. But there's also, like, I mean, wildly different interpretations from people like you're saying, Danny McCarthy and who he was on that show.

Like the Jake Lacey discourse has been robust in terms of, do you see him as White Lotus asshole or like various like well-meaning golden retriever boyfriends? Yeah. And I would say Emmy Rossum's been in that category too where this is not a performance or a character I ever would have anticipated for her. You don't see like a connection to her shameless character? I guess to shameless most of all.

But not Phantom of the Opera. Well, certainly not. I mean, that was what I was trying to wrap my head around of like, how do you get from fandom of the opera to literally here? What a journey. What a journey. Last one at least, on the Emma Easton front, our listener, Maddie, in sort of examining that greenhouse scene last week was talking about how she has a little tremor in her hands. Yes.

Which is a similar sort of traumatic response to the one that Catherine has. So, you know, Emma inside this episode will position herself as a, I'm a victim too, you know, a moment. I really thought of Davis was incredible in this finale. Really, really great. Really, really good. And then Maddie said, P.S. as a girl from Philly, all we want it to be told is I want to go to the Jersey Shore with you. And Danny better make it out of the series alive. So Danny is alive and well in the Jersey Shore, whether everything will be great for him and Alice going forward. I have some questions, some doubts, some concerns. What are your concerns? Well, here's a question. When he says, I don't want to look at this anymore, right? He's not just like I'm out of the force. But like, I've told myself to look at the hard things and I don't want to look at the hard things anymore. You can keep looking if you want. want. I don't want to look, right? Does that mean, I don't want to be a cop anymore, yes. Does it also mean when you do your murders, I just won't look at it?

Oh. Do you know? I would say that'd make them quite compatible. No, I know. Yeah. Is that what Danny is offering her in some way? I don't know. Because I don't know that he literally knows, obviously.

It seems to be that only Catherine really knows what she did there. But when he's like, if you want to keep looking, keep looking, you know, I'm just not going to look. Is it, you know, I can see Danny opening up like a pub on the Jersey shore. And he's just sort of like, come home and play Part cheesy with me when you want. But I'm not going back to the big bag city ever again. Yeah. He's just going to be like cleaning glasses. with a rag and just like living his life and charming everyone.

I mean, Scoot would make a great acting bartender. Don't you think? He fits right. But I thought we canonically established already. His job is now Beach. Is it not? Oh, yeah. His job is Beach.

But can beach pay the bills forever? Why are you going to have to find? I can't remember who owns this house. It was like a friend's place that he's staying at. He's at a friend's a pal's house. So I just like see him opening or like a candy and kite shop or whatever it is you open up on the Jersey Shore. I don't know.

But I just feel like he's just like, I'm going to do this now, you know? But how much of a blind eye will he or would he be able to turn if, say, Alice comes home from a murdering with, you know, blood on her clothes or whatever? You know what I mean? Like, is he just going to stand outside the shower while she washes the blood off or is he going to be forced to look again? That's a big question I have for season two. I think given the information he has, he is imagining himself as the wife of many male detectives. We have seen on many shows who is at home and the detective comes home. I can't bring this home to you.

I have to process it in my own fucked up way. Not realizing that her own fucked up way is, in fact, more murder. Alas. Okay. This first thing I want to talk about is when Alice breaks bad, if that's what you want to call it, or breaks murder at least. Do you feel like it's when... Okay, because inside of this episode,

Catherine accuses basically both Emma and Alice of using her as an instrument to kill Jay Easton, right? Yeah. Emma's like, here's a gun. You can go kill my dad. I don't even mind. It's fine. So she's like, Catherine, go do this for me.

And Catherine says to Alice, why did you want me to come here? You wanted me to kill him, didn't you? So that puts Emma and Alice in the same scummy. We use people. As users, yeah. You know? Did she make that decision the moment that Danny, Danny sees the video of her? And it's like this one good thing, I can't even.

I'm trying so hard to escape all the things. things that I went through as a child, as a teenager, as a child. I am becoming a cop. I'm not even reporting my abusive boyfriend. I'm just going to hop on over to the feds and continue to try to do good work in this world. And the one good thing I have is scoot fucking McNary and his divorce is finalized and I'm not with my abusive boyfriend anymore. And I can't even have this one good thing because this thing that happened to me has infected even this one good thing. And I have. And it's after that that she goes with Nora to find Catherine and say, what would you do

if I let you go? You know? And that's the first step on this path of like a different kind of vengeance, pursuit of vengeance, you know? I love that read. I don't know that I can quite get there. I think some of it, when I was going through this episode to me, I bought that Alice was someone who had not thought her plan through.

clearly the plan is send Catherine to the house Right Somehow look through this compound For hidden child pornography while pursuing Catherine But before you have her in custody Because then it becomes a legal great area Right before you put the handcuffs on her It's not a great plan

But I do kind of think that was the general plan I think that was her intentional plan Yes and I think to me the turning point is When Jay Easton wakes up And they're like oh the movie star Oh well that's definitely part of it I'm just saying like, where do we take to Roads Diverge? Where did we take the first step on that path?

You know what I mean? And maybe it goes, like there's no, we can't even see the beginning of the path, you know? I don't think at any point in this show, since Alice has been on this case, would she have given a shit if Jay Easton died? No. Or if Catherine made it to Jay Easton. And if it came down to it, if she could point Catherine and Jay Easton's direction, probably would have done it. Right. So I think that has been there.

True. But I think getting into the room with Jay Easton where her first move is not smother this dude and kill him. it is like wake him. And maybe that's because she wants to see the fear and she wants him to hurt in the same way that Catherine has wanted of these men. Like, I want that moment with them before they die. Maybe that's the sole reason.

But I did think it was... There's no reason for her to have gone upstairs, Rob. To see if he's there, to check on him? Like maybe to at least consider the possibility. There's no good reason for her to have gone up those stairs. I mean, we're talking about tipping points, right? Yeah. And someone in Alice's position, for as much as she did,

want Marshall to die. For as much as she does want Jayeson to die, it's one thing to point Catherine at them, and it's one thing to do it yourself. I know. And I think to me, it's the combination of what Jayeastern says and also just like the feeling in the room at that moment.

In part, like the fact that he is going to die, I think in some ways gives her the nudge she needs to be like... The jar's already loose. I'm not even that bad. The lid on the jars already loose. What I think is fascinating about that sequence when she kills him. Yeah. is we see it twice

and we don't you know, re-watch like the first time I watched it I was like oh they just like maybe showed us a little bit more or different angles that we hadn't seen

but it's actually like a different performance when you see it the first time there is like a concern of like Mr. Eason can I help you and then she goes

oh fuck you know like she says that that's not there in the second time we see the scene the facial expression is still kind of there

it's not I wouldn't Close. Yeah. I wouldn't say that it's necessarily played as concerned, but it does feel similar. I just think that that, I think the first time I saw it through, I was like, oh, they showed us an objective truth. And then they showed us just a little bit. They widened, you know, the frame a bit on that objective truth. Second time I watched it, I was like, no, they showed us two different versions.

Two different versions. We were like fully rationing the thing at this point. Exactly. Exactly. Which I think is interesting. I like that. I mean, I like the idea of like so many characters on this show. Whatever the truth is in that moment is just kind of. of a matter of framing, right?

It's like if you keep her feet out of it, everything looks like it's above a board until she starts smothering him with her hand. If you have the cut just so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like the idea that the storytelling is as much about selective truth as all these characters are about selective truth.

They are constantly revising and editorializing. And to me, that was just the absolute highlight of Hope Davis's performance and Emma Easton's role in this episode where this show and this episode do not necessarily work for me without someone like Emma Easton.

it. And you and Yasi were on this from the jump from the first pot of just like how furious lets women be everything, including the most contradictory and messiest parts of themselves. And a woman who is like, but I'm a victim too, as you alluded to. And it's like, yes, but also are you fucking kidding me? That's when I would have hit her or shot her. Understandable. I don't know. I thought her delivery of that was so good. Oh, yeah. I like things nice. I don't care for the people that, like, I don't care for the pop. Like the things that don't provide me pleasure. I don't like the flowers that don't smell good. I only like the flowers that smell good.

I like things nice. And like you weren't a kid, you were a teenager. Like all of these rationalizations, but just sort of like the way she frames herself where she was like, I'm a victim too. But also, so there are the things she tells herself to justify all the things that she's done. And the ways in which I do believe that there's a story

she tells herself where she is a victim too. Clearly. But then there's also the moments inside this episode where it's like, get the fuck away from me or when Alice shows up and she's like, she took my gun, my father's in there, and then as soon as she turns around,

she does this sort of like, Anne Hathaway, Selina Kyle, just like completely drop the frantic, you know, to like, I got things to digas, you know, I got a move. And so all the ways, and then later when she describes Isabel and she's like, I held her and I rocked her.

Yeah. This like self-serving, I'm an empathetic person. Oh, and then I left the room and she was alive. When I came back, she wasn't, you know, or you killed the wrong people. Like, there's just so much mess inside of this person and inside of this performance from Hope Davis. And I just...

And inside this performance from Emma Easton, as you're saying. Oh, absolutely. Whether it's the mask dropping or, like, the moments of calculation where she is considering, like, how far can I spin this truth for someone who doesn't remember what happened in the room? Right. There are those hesitations that are just, like, intoxicating as a T-E-Rew. show to see this character kind of like go through this process. But I think at her core, she does think it's a kindness to clean the place before you bring

the girls over to abuse and rape them. To offer them hot apple cider. Like she sees that like consummate hostessing as like a nice thing to do and doesn't see herself as like, you know, part of the infrastructure that makes all this possible in the first place. I love the open too where Jay doesn't remember Catherine or anything really. And I think not just because he's older and losing his memory and, you know, clearly sick, but also just like these are interchangeable transactional girls to him. And Emma doesn't have that luxury.

Like there are people, there are the Jay Eastons. And then there's the circle around them of like people who have to remember and mind every P&Q in detail to make this sort of like horrific course of events possible. And she just did that seemingly over and over and over enough to have a thriving greenhouse. And what's so interesting, interesting in a really disgusting way of not being able to remember Isabel. Yeah. Someone who was like bleeding out, dying, he hit her because she wouldn't stop bleeding. You know, and then like a whole phalanx of horrible people had to get involved in the cover up of this. And he's like, I have no memory of her.

But he does remember Alice because she's in his favorite video that he likes to rewatch. You know what I mean? Like who he remember. It's not just that he doesn't remember. anyone. It's like he remembers Alice, but he doesn't remember this other thing because it's an unpleasant thing. No real person involved sort of moment for him. Also, on the Hal front, like how Hal Campbell Scott's characters brought up here inside of Emma saying, like, you killed the wrong person. A friend of mine was texting me and he was like, he hasn't seen the finale yet, but he was like, do you think

there's any possibility that Janelle Maloney like shows up in the finale? He's like, because he was having a real, surely you don't cast Janelle Maloney to like show up in one episode. And he was like, do you think one episode as the sort of... I identify with this perspective very clearly, but... He was like, I know we were duped in the leftovers of her just like sitting around immobile for a really long time. But so I was wondering, okay, why do you have a denial Maloney? And like, she and Hope Davis are definitely of a type.

And we've talked about this before. And she's like, is the intention of casting her to be like, these are the kind of like waspy women who turn a blind eye to the horrific things that are happening, that prop up what's happening around them? Or, and, you know, the same thing. is just an extrapolation entirely, but like, does Campbell Scott's character have a type? And did he, and does he have a soft thought for Emma? Because Emma is of a type that his wife is of, that he's just sort of like, did they have

a romantic thing going on? You know, because when Emma's like, you killed the wrong people, you know, she's like, you killed Hal, you killed the wrong people. Like, was there something else going on there in terms of his protection of her and her tenderness towards him? Again, it's sort of irrelevant, but I just thought that was interesting in terms of the casting of his wife and Hope David. I don't think it's irrelevant though.

I think so many of the ways that this group of men specifically are portrayed on this show is as seeing women of a cohort, of a purpose, of a bucket, right? Yeah. Even for someone like Oliver Charles, it's like in his mind, as gross as it was in the end and through everything he had done, like almost couldn't separate being attracted to underage girls and what he valued in them to the same thing in his own daughter with her hair in this stuff. So it's like the idea of getting these wires crossed of having.

these like associations where it's just like to I could see to someone like how it is consciously or not as simple as like identifying or prioritizing or chasing after a certain kind of woman. And it doesn't feel like a coincidence that those women have a lot in common. Let's talk about Catherine and Alice and this conversation they have, this very Will Graham Lecter conversation they have about. You're going to need to be more specific. The whole episode is those conversations. About, you know, Alice still saying things like we don't.

get to decide what someone's punishment should be. And Catherine talking about the act of murder being like consuming. Yeah. And the power that comes along with it. So thinking about the theories as a comp and which we discussed last week and of course the show brought up as text inside of this series, they are not mythological creatures who like consume their victims. So there are some versions of the story where they drink blood and it's a whole thing. But it usually is. But there is, of course, the relentless pursuit. There is an appetite.

There is a voracious appetite for vengeance. That is a comp here. Or you could bring in the idea of, like, sin eating if you wanted to also inside of this. But what is really interesting about what the Furies do, if we want to go back to thinking about Catherine's particular brand of serial killing, is the way in which they basically drive their victims mad. They torment them. Yeah. They beguile them or, you know, yeah, they drive them to madness. And so the way in which she would capture these men pose as sort of lovers.

And we talked about this before, the sort of like weird tenderness that was part of it. I'm so glad to be kind of circled back to that. Yeah, that all kind of. And like what's interesting about the furies is that inside of, you know, Greek storytelling, they eventually go from like these vengeful gorgon-like snake-haired like monster women to do to something related to the Odyssey

which we can talk about or not if you want to but like Athena basically turns them into like symbols of justice and the court system and so they become their name changes to like the kindly ones from like the furies to the kindly ones and so the fact that all of that is sort of present inside of this is sort of like

the judicial system and also the sort of extra, like the vigilante justice, the kind, gentle, along with the absolute mental torment, along with the physical death, is, I think, an incredible way in which this is interacting with that sort of myth. Well, especially that kindness as Catherine's version of what Emma is talking about in terms of like the taking care of these people in these moments, except it's like it's transactional in a different way, right?

even before she made this speech, those like pillow talk proximity as you die, like breathe your last dying breath moments, that was always about power, right? Like that was always about like, I get to be here, who gets to touch whom, who is dictating terms.

And she leaves it out very cleanly hearing in the sense that like, not only was it not enough to feel that moment, but like she needs to feel as if she is consuming all of the power that they had and specifically the power they had over her. I mean, we talked throughout the show about like the, the appeals to these men of like

that you get to own me kind of psychology and for Catherine to get to own them for even a moment clearly has like a high for her and Alice it seems like has some of that high at least gets a taste of it in a kind of way even if it's not the exact man who wronged her certainly a man who at least had and prized the video that she was on but like I love

taking this show to that psychological place of not just like I'm getting revenge but I'm getting revenge in a way that allows me to consume what I have lost and consume what you had and I never did. And I get to become wings or not something on the other side of this thing. And I think the way in which, you know, we've had, I think, Nora more than anyone else, but a number of moments inside of the season where there's been sort of this litany of what is done to these girls in their trafficked, you know, decide when they get to sleep,

held cato, blah, blah, blah. But the withholding of food, the starvation aspect was sort of, reiterated several times throughout the season. And so, you know, the way in which Catherine would do that to her victims, the way in which, like, making these women who were trafficked, these girls who were trafficked, like, smaller and weaker, and the way in which sort of, like, food as control. And so then turned into this, like, consumption, right? This appetite of, like, I am grown strong and powerful and full. on the death of these bad men

who tried to make me small and starve me. And not only feeling that, but the fact that in the end, Catherine is like shot and bleeding out. And what she wants in this moment, even more it seems than killing Jay Easton is like, I want you, Alice, to feel this. I want you to feel what I have felt.

I want you to feel this power too. That's sisterhood, you know? That's women helping women murder men. I think... And I love it. Two and five Canadians will hear the words you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters.

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world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. The three furies that are, you know, there are many theories, but the three main theories, main characters in these stories, Electo, Megara, Tysiphany,

they have these, like, specific strains of vengeance associated with them. So, Electo is the unceasing, endless, endless anger. Yeah. Megara is the jealous, jealous rage, and Tisiphany is the avenger, vengeful destruction. And so in terms of, like, the jealous,

rage, that seems like Nora's camp in terms of like, you know, what Ed can get away with and how unjust the system is in general for women, the women that she is trying to protect, but also for her as a woman inside of this system, you know, so there is that. But in terms of like unceasing endless anger and vengeance the Avenger, like I'm not sure that I could like concretely put Catherine or Alice in one of those buckets or another and is the whole point that they sort of are flowing between those two states. Like, if Alice had just stayed on the side of like, I am the arm of the law. Of course.

Right? That is sort of the Avenger, perhaps. And then endless anger, the unceasing, the relentless, that's Catherine. But the point of this is that it's all blurry now. And not only that it's all blurry, but it's all relative. And I think the anchoring from where we start at the beginning of season one, tells us that those two women would represent one of those outcomes. But like over time, over three or four seasons, like, I mean, you could see it going very

different. But I love the idea, too, of Alice being here. After just trying to talk like two episodes ago, talk Catherine into believing in these systems of justice. Like whether she herself believed or not, that's the lie she was selling or the idea she was selling. And the greatest test she has of that is when she gets in that room with Jay Easton and she does not have a lot of time for systems.

Let's talk about what Catherine remembers and how the trauma has been manifesting for her all along. The way in which the numbness in her hands is connected, not just to like a general trauma response, but specifically Isabel sort of like squeezing her hands so tight in her inner pain. And then, yes, she has blacked out what has happened here because of her trauma and her guilt of her role here. But it's the method she uses to kill, like she has told herself she has forgotten everything. Yeah. But she is still killing these men in the exact same way that Isabel died at her own hands. And so I think that is, I mean, it's horrible and it's sad.

But it's so interesting to think about the human mind that way and just like how she's blocked it. But this thing has seeped through. And for some reason that she can't name, this is the right way to kill these men via, you know, the needle in the eye or the arm or wherever else. Yeah, this is where all the arrow was pointed for her, whether she was conscious of it or not. I love the deployment of Catherine's memory and her getting back in the room and having kind of like the tactile association to being in this place and starting to put the pieces together. The way that this part of the story unfurls. I mean, we talked about whether this is a murder mystery kind of show or not or like whether that villainy. I mean, I think the who done it is like who killed Isabel.

The answer is the people who put her in that room killed Isabel. Absolutely. A young girl who just gave birth and is bleeding profusely and this man slapsed. her and they get mad because she's bleeding all over the place. And won't call for a doctor, et cetera, et cetera. And, like, Catherine is the kindness of release of Isabel basically begging her to, like, can you end this for me? Yeah.

So, I like, that's the answer to the question more so than, like, who injected the drugs in her arm or who was clutching her in the last moments, yeah, of course. But I love that to my memory, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe, like, the first time we really see Isabel alive is in this moment of Catherine remembering her. Outside of, like, photos. Like an occasional photograph. But in terms of, like, seeing this actor in a real-time moment. Yeah, I think so.

Of, like, holding that back from the audience to a degree where we do just get her, like, almost flashing into Alice's place. Like, I just found it to be a really great creative decision and one that just, I mean, really knocked me out in terms of the emotion of this scene. And I think also the decision to have Emma shoot Catherine. So Catherine's hands are all covered in blood the same way they are in the flashback. So there is no distinction. between, you know, Catherine's, you know, black-painted nails, blood-covered hand in the flashback and here. And the way in which Alice is, like, giving her that compassion, giving her that empathy, while also rolling her sleeves back so she could put the handcuffs on, which is a protection in its own right, right? Because she's like, I've got the handcuffs on her.

I'm going to throw my body in front of her so they can't do death by cop for this girl. You know what I mean? And it takes Danny and Alice both to protect her in that room. But you're watching her just like give her this comfort while handcuffing. her at the same time and it's just sort of it's just an incredible image you know this episode is really good I thought it was really really sharp

I mean clearly I am I'm taken with the psychology of the show of the emotion of this kind of storytelling it can just go onward and upward and more fucked up from here I look forward in the tradition of Hannibal like if there is not a majestic and ominous elk at some point if there aren't some fucked up dreams if there's not a murder tableau

I may ask for my money back but I do think we're headed to some exciting places Are you bummed if people don't eat people in the show Like, do you need that? Well, the consumption is metaphorical, right? We are eating the power, right? You're so right. Can I share with you something that I was coincidentally

Wikipedia last night? Is it Portisad? It's not. Okay. Do you want to talk about Portishead? I mean, we simply must at some point. Let's do it now. I mean, I just have to say after, in a very competitive category, in our local state fair

here, needle drop of the season as far as I'm concerned. Needle drop of the year? I have to think back on the other shows that are really weighing in there, but just like... Okay, I'm going to say this now, even though I don't have your permission. Not that I need your permission. I have been pitching us doing a needle drop of the year episode at the end of the year.

And you were like a little like, I don't know, I haven't been tracking it all year. I don't know if we should do it. Here's what I'm suggesting. Press East TV at Spotify.com. I think our listeners should start letting us know now, what are some of the best needle drops that they heard this year in television? Let's start sort of like amassing. And if we feel like we have enough information,

perhaps we will do that episode. Look, conceptually, you don't need to convince me. Oh, I know. You were just like, I would have had my spreadsheet going at the beginning of the year. I mean, that's really what it comes down to. Not just a couple months ago, Dorena. I find that kind of aspect of a show to be the kind of thing that's like hardest to pull of like, oh, man, that one drop in episode three of pluribus or whatever. It's like, I can't recall that as easily as like, oh, what were my favorite performances or your favorite singular episodes?

Sure. It's a little harder to pluck for me. It is. No. I just think the data is there and we can mine it. Okay. We'll mine away. I mean, I just like, I like listening to you talk about the way in which music is used on screens.

This is really just me wanting more of that Rob Mahoney special. I see what you're doing, and I appreciate it. Plattery will get me everywhere. All right, now it's time for me to talk more Greek mythology. Speaking of, we kind of ducked your Odyssey aside. Did you want to dig into that a little more? Well, the main story that the Furies are feature in is this trilogy of plays by Escalis, which is about Agamemnon.

killing his daughter, Ephigina and Clytemnestra, killing Agamemnon, and then Arrestes, her son, killing her. And so the furies, like, chase Arrestes to Athens because they're like, you killed your mom. That's fucked up. Like, Kinslaying, that's fucked up. We like to punish that. And Athena's like, let's have a trial. And it's like the birth of the judicial system. And guess what? A trial of Arrestes' fellow men, let him off because they were like, seems fine. And the theories are like, we're pissed. So, yeah, it all comes back to Benny Safdi, essentially. As it always does. As it always was. I was rereading Song of Achilles, Madeline Miller's story last night because I like to cry sometimes.

And Achilles has a terrible son who does a bunch of terrible things. And he eventually dies. And we all do. There is this phrase that is born out of how he dies, which is the punishment of Neatollamus. And it's not as catchy as the judgment of Paris or Achilles heel or Trojan horse or all the other things we got out of the Trojan War. But Neatolumus or Paris is he sometimes called. Basically, he's killed in the same manner. He kills King Prime, King of Troy, on an altar in this, like, horrible way.

And then he is later killed on an altar for, you know, his various crimes. Hosted by his own partard. Killed in the same manner. So I was just thinking about Catherine injecting all of these men and how that is a punishment of Neotolumus, I guess, if you want to think of it that way. I do, and I dig it. Let's talk about the Connecticut Cops. This episode needed some humor. It really did.

Here come the Keystone Cops, the Connecticut Cops. How did you feel about this? I mean, we needed it. Look, I just think if the A block of this episode is going to be the sexual predation and murder of young girls, we need a congregation of cops outside trying to get in and being caught in the paperwork snag of needing to show each other their IDs. And in fact, I would say Emma Easton barging out in one of her performances about the murderer being inside only to find roughly 30 to 40 officers just like handing each other IDs has to be the laugh of the episode for me. The laugh of the episode to me is when the Connecticut Cops, after Nora and Danny have already been like sort of bumping up against this. And then Ed George and the rest of them get there. And they're like, who are you?

And Frank Joy just goes, Frank Joy. He's right. Frank Joy. I'm Frank Joy, obviously. But yeah, back of a popsicle stick. Very good. You know, white golf cart. And the way that he's like, when you take me in your white golf cart and the Connecticut Cops like faster than you think.

Like just all really, really good shit from this. And then Nora's vulgarity here and elsewhere, I just want to celebrate as one of her transgressional aspects of her character. When Ed's like, you think, like stop acting all high and mighty. And she's like, I am. I am higher my ear than you. And I'm pissing down on you. And later in the elevator when she sees him and she's like, should we have fucked? What do you think?

You know, he's like, you're offending my delicate sensibilities with your vulgarity. Garrity and it's just something I love about Nora. I mean, my only regret about Nora in this episode, one, that there isn't more of her period. And two, if this is kind of the last we see of Dany in his capacity, there's fewer and fewer reasons for him and Nora

to be in the same room and every scene with them was a gift. Them driving like getting their drive time together. There's just like a knowing ballbustery nature between them that I really, really enjoy. But seeing her finally get a moment on at George after he gets to gloat through most this episode, thinking that he's gotten off Scott

Free, thinking that... But is she once again doing the same thing when she's like, hey, I got that thumb dry? You know what I mean? Like... But it's who she is. You know? You're so mad at the Scorpion. The Scorpion is telling you what he's up to, you know? It is my nature. Look, I love Nora for that reason. I love her as a character because she wants to and gets to and sometimes

regrets gloating. Yeah. And sometimes owns it. Sometimes it's late coming around to, but like, that cycle of... She sees through everyone in the show more than any other character. Correct. When Alice starts talking very empathetically about Catherine, she's like, something has shifted here in the dynamic. When Danny is attempting to lie to her,

she's like, come on. I barely even know you and I know you're full of shit. Worst liar ever, yeah. So it's like she is perceptive as a detective, as a cop, as an investigator in a way that almost no one else is, but is like so, like, so calcified in her frustrations of being stuck and like stymied by the Ed Georges of the world that it's like when that opportunity comes,

she's got a monologue. And like, I want the monologue. The smirk he gives her as he's like walking away because Jay's dead and like you can't pin this on me. Makes you want to kick him to the curb all over again. Really? Those perfect teeth. Follow question.

Is this the best elevator show since Mad Men? It might be a crowded field. PrestiTV at Spotify.com if I'm forgetting something great. I mean, Gray's Anatomy also has some iconic elevator stuff. But I just think all of the. Nora in the elevator scenes have been... That's her office. No notes for me.

Is it time for me to talk about Greek mythology again? Isn't that what this whole podcast has been? I think so. This comes from our listener, Caroline. And this is about Alice as Medusa. So, like, the thing about the theories is that they're often described similarly to the Gorgans in terms of, like, the snake-like hair.

But, like, Alice's curls as invoking Medusa, the Gorgans. And they mentioned Medusa in the first episode. of the season. Norah talked about the fact that that, like, Marisa was raped by Poseidon, etc. And this email predates this episode. Yes. But by the end of it, I mean, we get Alice in her full curling, resplendent glory after she has, you know,

done some light to media murder. This is what I love about, like, I love this email from Caroline. She says, Alice has the crazy snake like hair, and she was raped and abused by Easton, not by Easton, but, and Marshall, who is godlike with his power and money, much like the God Poseidon, who raped Medusa and who was then cast out by Athena.

So the way in which like Athena in the story of Medusa, like the women are the ones who do the casting out, even though it is the men enacting the crimes, etc., etc., not trying to get too deep in the weeds on the allegory, but you can continuously see how the women are punished for the crimes of men, how Alice is cast out when it's made public that Marshall abused her, how Nora's alcoholism is treated with an opportunity for blackmail rather than true empathy and treatment,

how Marshall blames Alice for his falling up the wagon, etc., etc., etc., etc. And then she says, Sadly, I think this means Alice's end may not be good. She might die literally, or there might be a metaphorical death that she can't come back from her career, her reputation, her attempt to recover from her trauma, credibility, her idea of a justice and a role as a great cop. But her quote, death and her eyes may take down Easton. And already we're seeing how anyone who truly sees Alice, like seeing the face of Medusa

for who she truly is, dies. There seems to be death in Danny when he sees the child porn of Alice. the rejection of all the other cops when the truth of Marshall's abuse is revealed. What's so fascinating is how when Catherine sees her, there's a different response. A new dynamic emerges. So thinking about that, Alice as Gorgon, like Medusa who can turn a man to stone if he looks upon her face. So like her staring down at Jay Easton as she kills him and this idea of like him looking in the face of Medusa and dying and then her staring into the camera at all of the names on that database with, as you said,

her curls in for full resplendent mode, how it's like Catherine direct address to the camera smiling and Alice direct address to the camera smiling and just sort of like that idea of like look on my face the last thing you're going to see. I loved it. The potential for that kind of examination. I love that idea, that concept.

I think there's clearly some ways after the finale in which it sort of applies and sort of doesn't and there's some great areas around some of those characters. But like as a concept, it's clearly something the show is interested in. It's not a mistake with vis-a-vis the curls. The fact that Alice shows up to work with her like hair pulled back kind of thing and only not just in a literal letting your hair down kind of way, but like a disarmament of like

this is my truest self and who gets to who does get to look upon it and who gets to feel safe in doing it? Like these things are not accidents. Do you think it's an accent that she's wearing the Chris Evans Knives Out murder sweater when she goes to visit Catherine in jail at the end? Is cable net just the choice? of murderers everywhere. A creamy cable did, I think, specifically.

It is a little killer-coded. Yeah. But you know what? The scene's so good, I don't even mind it. Oh, I mean, it looks great. Looks great. In terms of the aftermath, Marshal a hero. You called this out very specifically.

I just had a feeling. Marshall in the wheelchair, but, you know, with the metal ceremony, right? I am very glad that this show never veered into did Alice shoot Marshall. Like, no one knows what happened. Right, we had a lot of people wondering if that was going to be the case. Understandable concern. I had the same flicker of a thought. And as soon as, like, it's in like the first five or ten minutes of the following episode

where Frank Cho is like, no, we have the CCTV. We can't tell what they're saying. But like, you can see that he's visibly drunk and just showed up. Yeah. Like, it's, you don't have to sell that. But in a way, it makes it even more tragic that everyone knows all that. And he's still up here getting his fucking metal. Just in case you weren't sure how this show feels about systems and accountability.

Yeah. Like, let me pin and sash this for you. I think the. you know, we have this whole back and forth last week about the idea of normal. I'm going to say healthy. I think the healthiest move that anyone in this episode makes is Danny quitting being a cop. Seems like a great call. Putting that cop head on backwards as he walks down the hall, real hot shit.

Real hot shit from Scoot McNary, honestly. So he gets to go to the Jersey Shore, which is sort of positioned as like heaven. Yeah. You know? It looks different than anything we've seen on the show. I thought of it is like, I mean, kind of heaven. but like sending Danny to the farm upstate a little bit. Yeah.

He's put out to pasture. Here's my fear. Scoot McNair is so good on this show. Is this his transition from either being on the show to off of it or on the show to like guest star recurring? Yeah, how many scenes can the boyfriend have? I don't know. The boyfriend who's off the case have.

I don't know. I hope he is a series regular. I hope Ed George, who is not like officially got. Oh, no. Is a series regular next season. Frank Choate. Frank Choi. Critical part of the team now.

Yeah, absolutely. Maybe Alice's closest confid on. He can't tell babies apart. But you know what? In a jam, he's not as bad as these other guys. The bars and hell. So the heavenly depiction of the Jersey Shore, and Rob formally apologizes, to the underworld hell of the office, the basement, the room that Alice goes into.

What do you want to say about sort of that sequence of her going in, Nora giving her the code and her going into the room? Yeah, I mean, I think for one, once she goes into that room and starts pulling up the video, it was like eerie how similar the room felt in its gray, sterile drabness to Jay Easton's room. And there's like, I mean, there is to the hell part of this, like, such a thin line between hell and this place, right? Like, this is where you view the horrible things that have happened to people. It may not be where they take place, but like as this dark pit of despair, I loved that mirror. And I mean, whether intentional or not, it just kind of functioned that. way for me.

I mean, the scene is incredibly affecting. And like anytime you're getting an actor like Emmy Rossum who gets a chance to just like show you what they are feeling and seeing. And she does that all throughout this episode in many ways, sometimes showing like triumph and the high of the murder. Sometimes in this case showing the anguish of having to view this stuff again and just the complete breakdown.

And then the resolve of like facing the unimaginable and then coming out the other side with like, I want this submitted into the system. This has a purpose for me. And I have to say, I think Nora's, like, absolutely right about this part of it. Nora has her failings, like, clearly is willing to walk and step on some lines. But the idea that, like, if you are going to do this work, you have to look. You have to start going through it. I think she's spot on.

And us getting to thankfully not see that, but participate in it through Alice. I just found to be, like, an incredible bit of TV. I thought the way this was shot was perfect in terms of, I think about all the time when you consider, how do you show the impact of sexual violence without showing it in a way that feels like lurid or exploitative or titillating or something like that? And, you know, the example of good intentions

gone wrong that I like to think about, I don't like to think about it, I think about all the time is the sexual assault of Sonsa Stark on a wedding night and the way in which the well-intentioned guys who made that show were like, we think it would be too dramatic to show that. So we will put the camera on Theon Grayjoy, who's also in the room,

so that you can experience his horror, like war through him, so that we're not showing you this because it's too hard to look at this. But then, unfortunately, what that just does is make this about the man's pain who's in the room and not about Sansa. So to put the camera tight in, tight, tight, tight in on Amy Rossum's eyes. And not only that, so we see what Alice is feeling as she, you know, And so Emmy gives us incredible eyebrow performance, you know, as Alice is watching this, we can see the flicker of the image in her eyeball without having to, like, decipher what is going on. But just the presence of it there.

I thought it was just like threading the needle perfectly in a really tough kind of storytelling. Completely. And taking us from that moment. to then telling us what actually happened with Jay Easton. Yeah. Why Alice actually wants to be in this room. I'm like, again, this is me coming back to Ed Georgia. Like, what kind of person wants to be down here?

Yeah. It's the person who wants Retribution, who wants to follow the 500,000 downloads of her video that are in the system to say nothing of the ones that aren't. And she has like a nice, tidy little list to start with. A little list with usernames. You know, goes back several years. What a perfect open door.

for a second season. Yeah. Just like a really clever way to end this season and just like a perfect setup. Again, absolutely invigorating as a TV watch. Like I feel like we've just been covering

a lot of shows where to be, to be fair, I think it's really hard to tell a cohesive singular story that when it ends, feels like it's just getting started. Like specifically a season one into season two transition,

I think can be a really hard jump for a lot of shows. Yeah. I feel like we've seen a lot recently where it's like they kind of forget one or the other. You know, we watch like Alien Earth and it's like, So I guess we're just starting now.

Like all of this was sort of preamble to the actual story you wanted to tell. And to get what feels like a really nice bookend on the like Alice and Catherine Cat and Mouse. But Catherine is not dead. Yeah, she's on the board. She's potentially like set up in her Hannibal like role. Alice gets to go. Alden will hopefully, I mean, because I'm assuming she married Alden. I would hope.

Alden who has a lot of money will make sure she has is as comfortable as she can be. The commissary will be well stocked for her. I mean, the ramen packets. She will be swimming in it in a different way. But, like, the fact that she can still be on the show, and it doesn't feel like a contrivance, it doesn't feel like they bent over it backwards. Like, maybe she won't.

Like, maybe the answer is she's barely in the show going forward. I think she will be a very, like, Boyd Crowder sort of role for her. They dug coal together. They dug coal together. They killed men together. So we are setting up potentially a second and whoever, who knows how many seasons. I mean, this is essentially Dexter, right? We've got, and I'm not mad about it, but we've got a serial killer who is not killing other serial killers, but killing bad actors, who is on the force.

And so able to use the system to help them, you know, in their murdering of bad people. So we get, once again, the titillation of a murder show while also feeling like justified in the vengeance that Dexter is taking as he goes through. That show ended really well, right? Historically. Everyone loves that. I mean, as long as everyone is in some kind of flannel by the end, I think everybody's happy. But, I mean, one of the appeals of having those kinds of characters, I think echoes what this whole season has been interrogating in terms of like what are the limits of traditional law enforcement, of traditional prosecution. Like, what can the system actually do for you?

And the idea that someone like Alice would know at this point pretty intimately and certainly Nora would know where the lines are, what it can't do, where the gray areas are. like that gives a murdery actor, someone who's looking for a vigilante kind of vengeance. Right. A lot of area to explain. Like they know exactly where the lines are in order to kind of walk around them and through them in really interesting ways. So Alice in this dexter-like role, Catherine and this Hannibal Lecter type role. Nora, how much is she willing to turn a blind eye to, you know, what Alice is doing here? Because as you pointed out, like nothing gets past Nora, right?

So how much will Nora know when will she know it and what will she do with that information? How much will Danny Kelly know, you know, and what will he do with that information? Well, he's still reading up on the rules to Part cheesy. I've never played Part cheesy. Nor have I. It doesn't seem, for one, I don't think anybody's playing Part cheesy anymore. And certainly, you know I've seen a lot of TV. I feel like I've seen a lot in terms of how stuff is portrayed on screen.

Never once have I seen the rules of Parchisi as for play. That's a new one for me. Okay. And clearly it must be something for somebody out there. You're more of a backgammon as four-play kind of guy. I feel like you want something a little punchier. You know, like these dice-based games, there's a lot of contingencies. My guy Frank Choi is here.

Ed remains a threat. The thumb drive is in play, however it's in play. And surely Yara will be back from maternity leave at some point. And that is our season two of your age, which I'm really excited for. On the thumb drive front. And Marshall. Yes. I mean, hopefully he's gone from the show, but we could only be so lucky.

Doubt it. Yeah, highly doubt it. As far as the thumb drive, the fact that Alice's video is in the system, I mean, would suggest that everything on that thumb drive is in the system, right? Maybe, but maybe it already existed in the system, and Nora was just like, I've found it. I mean, if it was in that many other files, then maybe, I mean, it does kind of put an interesting spin on the whole dilemma that Alice and Danny were going through in the first place. I don't want to submit this because you're on this tape, and it's like, it turns out 499,000. other dudes also horrible screen names have already downloaded it.

What's interesting to me and I'm not a tech person or have I ever been involved in watching these kinds of disgusting videos, but like, how does that, like, that file is named that file for everyone. I guess we're not renaming these horrible files as they get circulated or whatever because it's like Alice, like with some numerals and stuff like that and she's found in all these places. So yeah, like I guess if you're in pursuit of child. you're not stopping to rename your files when you watch it.

I don't know. I just thought that was, I don't know how that works. Well, I would think the naming of the file. Genuinely so. I would think the naming of the file is probably its own sort of forensic information, like how it is titled, like. Oh, is in the metadata somehow or something like that? Well, not only that, but it would give you a sense of like, is this an archa-like,

if there's a number attached, does that mean there's 77 other files? It's like, it tells you information by its existence. That said, if they were submitted into an FBI database, I would think it would be retitled. you would keep that information somewhere and it would be retitled Exhibit 926. Right. You know?

I mean, especially like in terms of a person's name being attached to it when there are all these rules now about sort of like people's names being involved in cases or not. Anyway, I don't want to end on that note. Anything else do you want to end on

do you want to talk about Portishead again? Can I make it sadder somehow? Why? Okay. This is a small moment in like a really good finale, a very character-rich episode, but I don't want to breeze by it, but like, the mass grave on Heart Island,

where, you know, the name of the episode. One of the reasons that Alice ostensibly shows up to talk to Catherine is to tell her that they have dug up Isabelle's body. They've exhumed it. They're going to give her a proper grave, proper marking, proper recognition. Just seeing the, like, crane shot below the surface of how, like, all of these people,

presumably a lot of them women who were in similar circumstances to Isabel had been so divorced from their names and their humanity. And it's just like, how many of these coffins can we pack into this mass grave? It was just like... And Nora had said that, like, in terms of like how many bodies deep these graves. We knew what it was, but like seeing the whole dug up as they are trying to pull up the right coffin. I mean, it's just really harrowing stuff in a show that, like, for as funny as it can be, also never lets you forget, like, what's actually at stake here.

I would apologize for talking about Song of Achilles again, but I won't because. because that book is so good. But the end of that book is all about, like, putting a name on someone's grave so that they can, like, find rest in the afterlife. So this idea of Isabella's, like, you know, a spirit who cannot rest because their name has not been put on their grave is, like, something I was thinking a lot about.

And what we can do for the people who have died under any sorts of circumstances like this. And to give Elena a place to go. The fact that Elena is there, Atlanta gives Nora a hug, like all of that. And what will this mean for Elena's future? Elena is someone we've been quite worried about. You know, Catherine certainly has been quite worried about this whole season.

And she seems to have reminded Nora what a hug is. Yeah. This feels like maybe the first time that Nora has had a hug in a while. Correct. She seems to remember the broad beats, but maybe the particulars are a little lost at time. Great coat on Nora, by the way. I don't know how it will pair with the tropical shirt, but... I think everything pairs of the tropical shirt.

If you are Nora. Did you know that it's... to go Comic-Con, like a lot of people were staying at the Jimmy Buffett Margaritaville hotel. Yeah, not me Alaska. Wait, there's a Margaritville Hotel? Don't you want to stay there? It's like parrot-themed wallpaper. Do I mean, I'm not opposed to it? Do you think they just pipe in Jimmy Buffett 24-7 into the room? That's implied. Do you think there's like a lost shaker of salt on every single surface? That feels like it would make someone go insane. Only cheeseburger in paradise is on the menu? Wow, how much do I know about Jimmy Buffett? That's about it.

You're already squarely on the record about being pro Jimmy Buffett. and an anti-Randy Newman. Correct. Correct. So, I mean, your credibility in this issue is... Okay. It disgust me. That's it for Furious. I don't think...

Do we have a plan for next week? We don't. We're in a podcast about something. We'll figure something out, and then it's Slow Horse. Joanna and Rob will return. In Avengers Doomsday. And so we only just have one gap week before Slow Horses picks up. Yes, I think so.

So mercifully, we barely have to program anything for ourselves. But we'll figure out something to do. Kai, I'm sure, has a ton of ideas for us. Maybe Dev does as well. And then we'll be... move back with potential James Bond candidate. One in six chance? Or do you think it's better than that?

Do you want to, who, like, of those guys who are on the short list for James Bond, who's your top pick? I think I want one of the Jacks. Yeah. But here's the thing. I probably know the least about Jack Barton. Yeah. Which in a way makes me want him more.

I agree. Like, I had only seen Daniel Craig in Layer Cake before he became Bond. And I think that unknowability was part of the appeal at that time versus these other guys. It's like, if you're playing a B-Bee. with a bad wig, you're not allowed to be James Bond, too. Okay, so Harris Dickinson and Paul Meskell, out. Calam Turner, did you see the one-night-only movie?

I'm behind, unfortunately. It came out while I was on vacation. You were, like, the number one enthusiast for that movie in terms of people I knew personally. I love it all in one night. I love a walk-and-talk. Seems like people didn't really like that movie. I continue to make my case that Calam-Turner is really only famous because of

Duelipa. I don't think he has the charisma to do this. But he has the, look, and Allerty, on the record is out on a Lortie. as Bond. Absolutely not. You said on height alone, he's disqualifying. Absolutely disqualifying. Look, you just have, look, we all have to acknowledge our limitations. And as, from one tall guy to another,

you can't be James Bond. Like, you're just going to stick out of every crowd. You're going to be towering over every casino table. That man should be playing like small for the Charlotte Hornets. Like, he can't be James Bond. But on the Callum front, I would respectfully push back. He's not someone who's like a peel I intimately

understand, but I've seen his power over other people. And I would venture to say, if you have the charisma to end up with Dua Lipa, you probably have the charisma to play James Bond. You can have real-life charisma and it not translate on screen. And so do I believe he has to have something in order to land Duelipa? Yes. Have I seen it manifest in any of the things I've seen him in? Have you seen him in anything? I don't think I actually have. Yeah, I have. And I'm just sort of like there's no there. There's nothing there. There's nothing

going on between those big ears? No, exactly. I support. I support the years. Jack Barton, I have seen in Heartstopper and Rogue heroes, not like super, super familiar, but like on that layer cake sort of level. So yeah, one of the jacks. Wouldn't it be weird if you get to play River Cartwright and James Bond? It'd be really exciting. Yeah. And especially since search is on the record about wanting to be a Bond villain, we deserve

this. This is all we deserve. Bring it to us. Yeah. Immediately. Do we get to have that Anne Gretaly and Rebecca Ferguson in a rom-com? That feels like being too greedy. Okay.

But the world took Dolly Parton and Tim Curry for us. So it's just not... Same week. Is this not just balancing the scales of justice? I like that thinking. Okay. And that's the last I have to say about Furious. Press East TV at Spotify.com.

If you have Bond thoughts, if you have needle drop thoughts from TV of the year. If you have thoughts about what we should do on the pod next week. I'm open to that. For sure. And your pre-seasoned Slow Horses thoughts. Thank you, too. Jacob Cornett, Kai Grady, DeVernaldo. I saw Jamie back there.

A lot of people here in the building today. Thank you to you, Rob Mahoney. Thank you, Joe. And thank you to murderesses of all kinds. A legend or not, we love them. All right. Bye. Two and five Canadians will hear the words,

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