The Prestige TV Podcast - Golf on Screen: 'Stick' Eps. 1-3 (Plus ‘Happy Gilmore' and 'Tin Cup' ) With Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

In honor of the new Apple TV+ show 'Stick’, Jo and Rob tee off with a discussion of some golf cinematic classics. (0:00) Intro (3:38) ‘Happy Gilmore’ (4:54) ‘Tin Cup’ (8:40) Favorite sports movie of all-time (14:17) ’Stick’ (24:20) The ‘Ted Lasso’ of it all (26:21) Needle Drops (32:06) Little dogs (37:32) Anticipating Timothy Olyphant (46:35) Jo gets the ‘Happy Gilmore’ references (47:25) Rob’s ‘Tin Cup’ takeaways Email us! [e-mail] Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney Producers: Kai Grady and Donnie Beacham Jr. Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson. I'm Rob Mahoney. We are here live and in person to talk about the TV event of the year. Yeah, why not? Sure. It's stick on Apple TV Plus. But before we talk about this new Owen Wilson show that is ostensibly about golf,

we're going to talk about that in a second. Golf, the meaning of life, family. I was reading this really fascinating. Have you heard of Bill Simmons? Vaguely, yes. He wrote this really fascinating piece on, this website called Grantland several years ago. I've also heard of that, but mostly by reputation.

Where he was talking about, is it a sports movie or is it a rom-com? Yeah. It was sort of a delineation. He had a bunch of different sort of criteria on his rubric or whatever. Because we're going to talk about, not just talk about stick and whether or not it is, is it a sports show or is it a daddy issue show? This is a question we can ask ourselves. One would argue all sports shows are daddy-issue shows at their core? A great title of a lost episode.

And then before we do that, we each watched a golf movie we had never seen before. And so we just thought we would talk about, I don't know, sports movies quite broadly, a topic that might be of interest to people who frequent the ringer. Golf as a sport, how does it lend itself to the medium of a sports movie or a sports TV show? and then how Stick sort of measures up to these other two. I would say classics of sports cinema. I would definitely say so. I was looking at a bunch of lists of the top golf movies of all time. And every list had these two movies that we're about to talk about briefly before we get into Stick at the top.

Would you like to name them? The movies that we're going to talk about? I would think that would be helpful. I saw the film. Happy Gilmore for the first time. Yes. You saw... I saw the movie Tin Cup for the first time.

Here we go. I would say not only are these great golf movies. You could recommend to anybody whether they're interested in sports movies or not, really. But the DNA with stick. There's so much in common. And I would say especially,

I am not a golf guy personally. I have zero interest in watching, participating, engaging with golf in any other way. Yeah. So bringing it down to dirtbag golf, now we're talking. Right? Like now we're kind of getting somewhere.

It's a little less stuffy. Yes. You know, we're not in white pants. We're in low-cut tank tops. We're in dusty old shirts. You know, we're on broken down driving ranges. I think both Stick and these two movies we're going to talk about, all kind of bring it down to that level in a really, if we're going to be honest,

humanizing way that makes golf a little less pretentious to me. And I think what's interesting about those two movies and I think a number of golf stories that have captured people's hearts and minds is, is the class, question because for so long golfer equals I have a lot of money I have a lot of leisure time I have a lot of XYZ in Happy Gilmore of course

this is we are playing for money to save our house and our grandma we are in hockey jerseys your grandma yeah grandma the house we're wearing hockey jerseys we will not wear khakis on the golf course that's not something we're going to do not so much This episode is brought to you by Borris Head.

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Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring, save at Whole Foods Market. Do you want to, I will explain for literally anyone who has never watched it, the plot of Happy Gilmore. Yeah, I think this is a good format. Let's do a little plot swap. Okay, should I start? Please.

Okay, Happy Gilmore. The titular Happy Gilmore is Adam Sandler, a hockey player who cannot make it onto a hockey team. No. Mostly because of his violent erratic tendencies. Yes. Famously tried to stab people multiple times with his skin. Some temper issues.

Yes. His beloved grandmother loses her house due to tax evasion, and he needs to drum up some money to get the house back. And he finds through a series of random happenstances that he has an incredible golf swing. And he can crush it on the long game, but the short game, that's where it gets you. putting, that's tough. We've got a nemesis in Shooter McGavin. All-timer. Chris McDonald, right?

We've got a love interest in Julie Bowen's character, whose name I didn't bother to learn. Also an all-timer, though. And we've got victory. We've got a, you know, a down-in-his-luck, unlikely guy makes it in a sport that no one thinks he belongs in. What is tin-cup about? I would say also a down on his luck guy who not a lot of people believe in, but one who meets René Russo one time

and proceeds to have a nervous breakdown in which he reevaluates his life. And look, if René Russo walks into your life and talks about strapping you up with a saddle, I would think a lot of people might have a nervous breakdown. So radically starts changing his life, trying to understand what his priorities are,

going to therapy for the first time. Really, it's a movie about the inner game of golf, right? The mental game, not dissimilar from happy in his putting. And in doing so is confronting his internal nemesis himself and his own kind of ability and willingness. His own tendency to fly off the handle. And then an adversary in Don Johnson, who is like his old college teammate, therefore a longtime rival. And I would say makes the great offense of asking Kevin Costner to be his caddy.

And that's really what sets all these events in motion. Ultimately, this is what Tinkup is the ultimate Brains versus Balls movie. Like it is all about do you? Do you go for it every single time and take the riskiest chances? Or do you play the percentage game? Do you lay up? Do you play smart golf? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Great assessment. How did you feel about Tinkup? I loved it. It's great, right? It's incredibly charming. What is there not to life? I think to the bill part of that, like, it's both a great rom-com and a great sports movie. It might just be a great rom-com.

This is like something I was listening to because I'm a totally normal person, some golf podcasts where they were talking about the best golf movie. Do you want to shout out at the golf podcast you're listening to? And one of them was saying that he doesn't like tin cup because he feels like it's just a rom-com. Not enough golf. Not enough golf in the golf movie. There is an iconic sequence in Tin Cup. Happy uses a hockey stick for much of his gameplay.

Kevin Costner uses gardening tools in a very memorable. A shovel. A rake, I feel like at one point in a hoe. There's a whole thing in the sand trap where it's like you're not allowed to actually hoe the, the ball out of the sand trap. Here's the thing. Even if it's not that golf-y a golf movie, the point of making a golf movie or a golf show or a sports show in general,

we're mostly here for the metaphor. Like, we're here for the like, T-off and you might shank it, but guess what? There's another hole coming up. You get to reset your life all over again. Here's a line that might be in all three of these, might be in Tim Kump and Happy Gilmore and Stick. They do repeat themselves.

It's a game of inches. It is. The most important being the six inches between your ears. So, yeah, it's a mental game. I just want to, I think. And a physical game. You know, I think they apply in TINCup especially a movie that because of its era dares to have actual adult relationships in it.

You know, you get the golf metaphor in the bedroom too. You know, it's all about tempo. It's all, you know, can I get a mulligan on that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's many ways. Yeah. But guess what? You get another T.

We're talking about the yips inside of this. Certainly are. out of all of these contexts. Tin Cup, which was made by Ron Shelton, who did Bull Durham, White Man Can't Jump, Blue Chips, like a bunch of incredible sports movies, bringing the love of the game and a knowledge of the game, but also they're just their hang movies. Yes.

In Tin Cup especially, like, Costner's character is surrounded by a coterie of just, like, fun loser guys. I mean, Cheech, Cheech Marin is kind of the runaway star of this last rewatch of Tin Cuff from me. as his caddy and best friend. But the whole gang that hangs out at the driving range and just all of them just shooting the shit all the time, that is very Bull Durham to me as well. And it's incredibly fun.

But it's interesting to think about golf as a game versus what's your favorite sports movie of all time? I mean, it's probably hoop dreams. Sure. But like non-documentary gets a little dicey. Honestly, challengers rising up the ranks pretty quickly. I was thinking about challengers actually when I was watching Stick. I think it works really well.

And tennis and golf have a similar kind of quandary in terms of like a filmmaking or a showmaking endeavor, which is they're naturally very dramatic sports. Like it's one person either on their own playing singles or, you know, getting ready to tee off or on a green. Like you have these dramatic moments. But tennis is naturally kinetic. And that can be challenging to shoot in a way that I think challengers solved really effectively. And the tennis in that movie is so magnetic. Golf, though, is like not the most interesting sport to watch from a movement perspective. in a way that as we kind of get it to stick,

I think stick does really, really well and makes it feel, like you feel the momentum, you feel some of the drives, you feel the power of... That's a sound design. It's what sound design, but it's also a cinematography. Like they do a lot of kind of drone shotting off of the tee. And so, you know, putting yourself in the place of the ball in a way that kind of transforms those scenes.

And a lot of that comes from, I should say, the cinematic classic, like, Happy Gilmore. Sure. Because Happy has this incredible swing. And so the camera is just like shooting back with the ball, and probably across the entire golf course as his, I was thinking a lot about that inside of stick. And I think this idea of golf as it's really you versus you.

Because shoot McGavin and David Sims, which is no relation to blank check host David Sims, who is Don Johnson's character. Like, you know, these are like the stereotypical 80s jock rivals, you know, that you have here. But you're really fighting. own inner demons. Yeah.

And that's what probably any good sports movie is. But in a lot of sports movies that I love are team-based. And so it's much more about team dynamics or who is your ultimate team rival and stuff like that. And this is just sort of you versus you at the tea and how you can overcome that or not, which is one of the joys of Tin Cup. I love that part about it. I love that in the end it's not about winning, but about like kind of overcoming a hurdle

for you or even proving a point in a way to you or someone else. I think a lot of these sports movies and especially the golf movies come down to that moment of you had, these characters have an arc over the course of the movie, learning the thing that they have a hard time with. Usually in golf it's like self-control, a lot of anger.

It is that mental game. And so in order to get to the end, they have to conquer some of those elements. But then in the end, it's like you kind of have to go back to the person you were at the beginning and channel some of like the loose can in elements of your personality, but in a more constructive way.

That got you there in the first place. You have to be yourself in addition to whatever you learn. I agree about golf being. I mean, I've never personally sat down and watched, you know, the U.S. Open or anything like that. Why is that? It's just not my game, personally. What is your game? To watch.

Yeah. Hockey. Okay. I like a hockey game. It hurts, but okay. It's not basketball. You know, I was just throwing you the end. I was hoping.

It's baseball and hockey. It's not really... I will watch a basketball game, but it's not my first choice. Fair enough. So sorry to wound you personally. But I think this idea of... I have no idea what I was going to save. I'm so sorry.

Well, let me bring it back to this with the sports movies. Like things that I love about a sports movie, you nailed it. The camaraderie of team. And that's somewhere with a golf movie. Like, you have to create a group around the player or the players to make it really, really work. It can't all be internal. I also think that they have such a crystal clear arc.

There's always a big game or a big tournament. It makes it very easy to say, like, we're trying to get here. And it reminded me of something you brought up. We filmed the Big Pick draft, 2000 draft yesterday. We certainly did. I am recovering in many ways. You were talking about what you wanted from Gladiator, which was more mini sort of. Minor league gladiatorial games.

And that's every Gulf movie. golf in particular is so good at the minor tournaments. Or tourney, turny, turny leading up to the big open or the big championship or whatever it is. And this is the thing too. Like to me, there are never small stakes in any kind of story. Like I just don't believe in that concept. I think every story tells you what's important to it. And if you tell me the big game or the big tournament is important, I'm right there with Happy Gilmore, like trying to get his grandma's house back.

I think the kinetic, the lack of kinetic nature of golf, I think is a really interesting thing. to bring up, but it is so easy to follow in terms of, you know, any sports movie you can look, there's usually a scoreboard, whatever. In golf, it's so fun because you can watch your name rise up the ranks or fall down the ring. I don't need to understand about under par to understand that Happy Gilmore's name goes, you know, goes up the board and stuff like that. That's very true.

And then you've got announcers, some great announcer work in Tin Cup especially, I would say. And then you've got fun things like sand traps and water, you know, water features and stuff like that that can sort of make it a little bit more kinetic. But it is a challenge. And I think most of the most successful Gulf depictions will yada yada through a lot to get you where you need to go. You simply have to. There's a lot of course to cover multiple rounds being played in some of these tournaments. Like you have to kind of jump to the points that matter. Jump to like the crux of when these people are in crisis on the course in some way.

So let's talk about Stick. Please. Because, yeah, there's a lot of crisis on the course in Stick already, even within these first three episodes. As we were talking to Bill a couple prestige episodes ago about this idea of Apple strategy of putting stars of the wedding crashes into their shows. It's an effective business model. I can't want to tell you. This is the Owen Wilson show. Yes.

Like, without question, this is the Owen Wilson show. He plays Price Cahill, a down on his luck, former pro-gouleson. golfer who is now selling golf clubs, you know. And I can't remember exactly what I texted you, but I was like he's a combination of Roy McAvoy from Tin Cup, but also the bomber from the Royal Tannen bombs because there's this sort of like meltdown, famous meltdown from his past. So I was thinking a lot about his brother, Luke Wilson. He has an ex-wife slash mom played by Judy Greer. The great Judy Greer Oh the great Judy Greer

The greatest maybe The greatest doing kind of exactly What she did in Ant Man And I would say better I would say better I'm gonna I'm I'm willing to defend Some of the Judy Greer

Character writing in this episode And also some of you know I would say like the central plot Of these first three episodes is yes Like we're getting used to Price as this like another Downer's Lek golfer Another person in crisis

Another person grifter Schemer trying to scrounge up money Finds this kid Santi who can just knock the ever-living hell out of the ball at the driving range. And that's a direct happy Gilmore moment. Completely. Like the sound, the echo. Like, again, you're very wise to point out the sound design.

Like, that is how you get people invested in that kind of action. Decides to try to endeavor to coach Santi. Right. And so we're kind of learning, oh, what Sonti's background in golf was, what his relationship to his family is. We meet his mother, Elena, the second Elena we've met in another Apple TV show, I would say, the superior Elena. Yes.

And so, like, these are two characters to me. Elena and Amber Lynn is Judy Greer's character's name. Who, like, in other shows, I think, could very easily fall into all sorts of pitfalls. Feisty Latina mom. Ficey Latina mom. Yeah. Ex-wife who's like kind of a nag, kind of a ballbuster. And it's like, I think they're threading a pretty careful needle with both in a way that works pretty well, to be honest with you.

That could easily be a huge blunder. I would say Elena doesn't always work for me, but I don't want to. to come on a podcast and be anti another Elena on an Apple show. But this Elena is, like that Elena had problems. Yeah. No, this is much more promising. And I'm thrilled by Mark Maren's presence here. Mark Maren plays Price's pal Mitz, who helps him in a bar grift, a very tin cup moment,

and owns, crucially, owns the mobile home, the Winnebago that they will be traveling around on. I, you know, Judy Greer is listed in the guest category. So now that they're on the road, we start with some at-home drama. Right. Judy Greer is like, please let me sell this massive house that, that you have trash and are just smoking weed in. And she's basically funding with $100,000 that she, you know, drums up for him, funding this on-the-road idea of let's get Santi to the championship. His big bet, basically. This is basically prices money from the prospect of selling the house, and he's going to invest it all.

Plus a little extra. I have a lot of questions, again, as someone who's not super familiar with the world of golf, is this how golf prospecting works? If you want to coach a kid, you pay the family $100,000 for the privilege of then having a split? I don't know, but I admire Elena's bargaining skills. She's a great business woman. I just don't know if this is how golf works. And look, if you... But is she?

I had some questions about her. The bank scene. I don't think the bank scene is meant to portray her as like someone who's totally financially fluent, right? Someone who's come into this huge sum of money, this $100,000 and is like trying to figure out what to do with it. And like everyone else in the story, it's like a little over her skis. So we've got Elena.

We've got Santee. We've got Mitz and we've got Price. And that's who's in the Winnebago, right? Right. And then in episode three, we met the other series regular who's a manic-pixie. dream girl bartender named zero. Former bartender. Zero. Played by Lily Kay, who people might know from, Yellowstone, et cetera. And she win Santee, who has daddy issues and price. Okay. I am enjoying the show. The end of episode one, dead kid montage via home video. Yep. Not my favorite move that a show has

ever pulled. Totally valid point. Completely valid point, show. But the point is, Price has, I lost my son issues, Santee has my dad left me issues. So these are where these two people are meeting each other. But when that dynamic plays out in the third episode, which is literally called daddy issues, they're like, we know what we're doing. Yes. In Swo's former bartender zero to be a sort of Renee Russo-esque sports psychologist, reclaim your power. figure. Will she join the team? Will she crop up bartending at all of these random tourneys?

We don't know exactly what her involvement will be going forward. She does whip very quickly from I'm going to storm out of my bartending job at this golf course into I'm just going to follow this kid around during the tournament all day. Yes. Well, I guess what else are going to do? You're not working the shift anymore. Go home? Yeah. Do literally anything else. It's a great point. But she's invested in Santi. And I should say, I am also invested in Santee. Hell yeah, Joe. Because the actor who's playing Santi, who we believe his name is Peter Jake, or we believe that's the pronunciation of the last name. Yeah. I really like this kid. He's really good. They're styling him, Shalame. I mean, the tussle is admirable. The hair is

inviable tusslema. Pure uncut Shalameh, but this kid is like, I really like this kid. Very good. And I'm a very believable golfer. Oh, I don't know anything about that. I defer to you. You can just tell from the smoothness of the motion. You know, like, we covered Fargo and there was like an asshole husband on his home simulator. And it was like the hitch in his swing was like, oh, this is very clearly either not meant to be a good golfer. Although that character insists he was, this one's like, if you're going to tell us this kid is like a real talent. Yeah. It needs to look like this and sound like this and feel like this.

And he's selling that. He's selling the athlete as much as he is the kid. This kid has to work for this show to work. Because Owen Wilson is just dialing up. up his folksie Owen Wilson. I've got a bunch of one-liners, like a butterfly, you know, like, whatever it is. Yeah. Like, he's dialing that up to 11, but if he's not bouncing off a kid who can sort of meet

his energy or with the opposite sullen kid energy, the show does not work. And I really think this kid is a great find. And him being like an empathetic presence in the show, I think, sells some of the harsher edges of Owen Wilson's character too. Because as we said, like, he is a schemer. He's someone who's always looking for an angle, always looking for something to play. There's clearly a part of that character that just believes in this kid and what he can be. There's also a part of him that sees this kid as a way out or a way up for him personally.

And, you know, like there were introduced him in the show like upselling golf clubs and like really laying it on especially thick with a prospective customer. I think kind of primes us for what to expect from this guy. Do being a rich dummy. Yeah. Like there's always going to be something that's kind of earnest in an Owen Wilson performance. but there's also going to be something that's like this guy's like a little bit or maybe a medium bit full of shit. Right. And him having that and bringing that into it and like side betting on Santi's rounds and things like that in addition to you just feel for this kid and you feel him being like manipulated into the system by price as well.

How is the marrying character met his presence working for you inside of the show? Like not just his comic relief. Yeah. There's this whole plotline in episode three week. It's trapped under a bed. but like as someone who knows Price well enough that he says you bet on the kid didn't you? Yeah. You know, you're you're yelling at him because you bet on the kid in his first, you know, game that you're here helping him and supervising him.

You bet you put this, you ramp up the stakes unnecessarily. When do you think we will get the call back to like he touches his ear when he's lying? Oh. That's coming back at some point. That's some real coop trunk energy. Great call. Great call. I can't wait.

Will it be every episode? That's the question. I think, I hope for more of the show than that. You know, it's so funny with this because, like, the particulars of tone are so personal to every viewer, to every show. This is a show that has a lot in common with Ted Lassow, for example. That's next on my list to ask you about. A sports show that is endeavoring to have, like, a lot of heart and to look at some, like, interpersonal things that are more complex than just, like, can you save this English football club?

Or in this case, can you save a golf career? Can you teach this kid? Ted Lassau does not work for me. Like, it just totally does not work. I think it has... It's too earnest for you? I think the first season more successfully, and then it gets into a zone,

and this is something we need to flag with a show like stick. It's like, once we start pivoting into overt confrontation of the daddy issues and the dead kid montage and those things, like we're hinting around them, we're mentioning them, but we're not diving in just yet. Yeah.

It felt early to, call on episode Daddy issues, episode three, but maybe it's like, I applaud you for getting it, putting it on the table and saying we know what we've set up here. The Ted Lasso of it all is really interesting to me because I did like these three episodes. Not everything worked for me. And in the moments where it didn't work for me, I was just sort of like they're just really, I really feel like they put out a vibe to the universe that said, not a vibe, a directive, we're looking for our next Ted Lasso. Yes. What, you know, pitch us, what do you have?

And Jason Keller, who's the showrunner here, is not a TV guy. And nothing on his CV. He's got some things on his CV. Four versus Ferrari. Big one. You know. Another crowd pleaser. Yeah.

That helped me understand how he got here, but he's not a TV guy. So like the question of like the calibration of TV storytelling and pacing, which is something we always talk about in Apple Show. David Dobkin directed the third episode. David Dobkin directed wedding crashers. So, like, we're just, we're doing for-vers Friari meets wedding crashers, and, and that's not a bad time. Yeah.

But what's the arc of the full season? And not only that, do we need to worry about what's the arc of a multi-season show? Because we have to be arcing towards a championship. Or a competition of some, yeah. Yeah. Some kind of high-level competition. We're building up to something. Completely.

Yeah. I think the missing element of that is, like, the directors of the first two episodes, Jonathan Dayton and Valerie Ferris directed Little Miss Sunshine and you're packing a family into an RV and driving them across the country through competition. It's like, okay, now we're getting the elements. Now we're getting the sports. We're getting the comedy.

We're getting the family dynamics. That may work for some people may not work for others. I got to say for me, like, this is a cold glass of lemonade. Like it is a very like... Is it all more Arnold Palmer? Well, I'm not an iced tea guy personally, so you can save it. But just like a simple pleasure kind of show. Rob, you have to be really nice to me today because you absolutely murdered me on the movie draft.

I'm not saying you personally can save, and I'm saying the bartender zero who's about to quit can keep her iced tea, you know? Okay, okay. Like, it is like the pleasures of the show I think are quite simple. And it's like hits you, though, at least hits me on like kind of an elemental level. Like they play The Boys Are Back in Town. I'm like, fuck yeah, the boys are back in town. Like I actually appreciated the very on the nose needle drops in this one. When Owen Wilson says, the Boys are Back in Town.

and then they literally play the boys. It starts. They play the boys. And then the third episode starts with a bluegrass cover of Bob O'Reilly and then ends with actual Bob O'Reilly. That's when I had a question about, we talked about this with your friends and neighbors, the Apple TV Plus music budget on these shows. Astronomical. They're just dropping Rolling Stones and who tracks on a third episode of a golf comedy on the show. Yeah, so I would get down on it for its on the nose needle drops were it not for tin cup.

I was about to say. Tin cup where they're basically like saying the plot of the movie over the folksy songs that are sprinkled throughout tin cup. It's one of the most egregious examples of that I've ever seen. I agree. My parents owned the soundtrack to Tin Cup. So we actually, I like know all of those songs we listen to a lot. How does it feel disembodied from the movie? Oh, it's like, I mean, it's more country than I prefer, but it is like they're kind of fun.

Watch, re-watchington Cup, knowing you were about to watch it for the first time, every needle drop I was like, oh no, Rob's going to have some questions. I had some questions. About these needle drops. But yes, the music budget for Stick is out of control. Along those lines, though, I have to say this was maybe the fastest. Country, not usually my genre, I would say Stick is not particularly country, but it is like a jangly kind of Americana in its soundtrack.

Yeah. And the theme particularly is the fastest I have. ever gone from hearing to shazaming to downloading this band's albums. I was like, this sounds great. Who is it? This band called Camp with 2A, C-A-A-A-M-P. I'm diving into the discography, but like a really wonderful opening theme that I love. Is this like a gangstaggress situation? Nothing measures up to gangstagrass. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about Zepbound, terse appetite. The first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine.

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It's time to refresh your yard during spring backyard days at the Home Depot. Get low prices guaranteed on propane grills starting at $179, like the next grill three-burner gas grill. Or get $50 off a select Weber Spirit grill and bring big flavor to your backyard. Then set the scene with Hampton Bay string lights that bring it all together. Shop spring backyard days for seven days at the Home Depot. Now through May 6th, Exclusion supplies to homedipo.com slash price match for details. The location, before we go on the road, we're in Indiana. And Jason Keller, the showrunner, is from Indianapolis, Indiana.

So this is sort of like his love letter, I suppose. Indiana, I'm not sure. It explains the IU paraphernalia hanging around. But yeah, nothing about this show, coming off our discussion with Bill about your friends and neighbors and asking what an Apple show is. Nothing about this show disproves my theory that Apple shows are for. liberal leading dads. Is this not a West Coast dad show?

I mean, I don't think it has to be West Coast, but like, again, it could be an all-dad show. Yeah. I'm just saying in slight contrast to the Taylor-Sharrant inverse, there's something slightly ooeyer and golier about an Apple show, you know? But you're allowed to be emotional in sports. Like, I think this is a crucial part of the sports movie DNA too.

It's like very relatable emotionality. That doesn't feel too dangerous. That doesn't go too out there, maybe Tin Cup accepted. Like, we're really bearing all in Tin Cup. And we'll see how much we do that in stick and how they confront these sorts of things. But, like, using golf or using a sport as an avenue to get into the human emotional experience. That's how you Trojan Horse a Dad. That's how you make him think he's watching the funny golf show.

Yeah. But then all of a sudden we're talking about our feelings. I don't mean to completely genderline this. But would you say that, like, a sports movie is a clear avenue to giving men permission to cry? your Brian songs. I think it's a huge part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

You know, we're getting better as a species about that, but it's still there. It's still the low-hanging fruit. Okay, interesting. That's fascinating to me. I am having a good time with this show. It's good. Any other specifics you want to talk about in terms of this show?

Hmm. I want to circle back to the Judy Greer element of this, because, yeah, I think some of its writing and some of its performance for me. You want to talk about Bentoben? Benton is taken some strays that he doesn't deserve. It seems like a really nice guy. But the clearest indication to us that Price's wife or ex-wife has, like, started to move on is she just laughs way too hard at Bentobin. Like, just keeling over at the worst possible jokes.

Yes. In a way that is, like, kind of charming in its own right. And I actually, this will be the shame if we're kind of on the road constantly and we don't check in with Judy Greer in certain ways. I don't think we're going to. Unless it's like you're in trouble. Like, you know, if they hit the skids and I guess they need more money, is she just the ATM in this? show? I hope not. Is she bailing them out of more jail? How many jails can one get bailed out of for parking tickets in particular? You know, Owen Wilson is here to test the limit for that. I'm sure.

Her big speech, again, two price, a speech like if written differently would feel very condescending or feel very naggy to like our male anchor character about how it's always someone else's problem. Pepper in like, oh, it was always someone else's problem that your dick got stuck in the Dyson. This show knows exactly what it's doing. And I think it's, I think it's, walking a lot of these tightrobes really, really well. I think that Judy Greer character, were she a main character? Yes. I would have more issue.

Which Judy Greer should be a main character in things. Of her own show. Give us more Judy Greer all the time. We really agree. But like, given that she's a side character, I'm not that concerned about her being fairly thinly developed. There's some stuff lurking for Marin's character where he talks about, you know, he used to be in the RV with his wife.

So that's sort of floating around. There's some stuff lurking, some bombs ready to go off for Elena. Really important question for you is, as an owner of a small-ish dog, Rob Mahoney, how do you feel about the tiny dog representation inside of this show? They're gorgeous little critters, to be honest with you. That said, bringing a dog into an RV, or in this case multiple dogs. Yeah.

You got to check with all parties. It's three. Are there three? I thought there was two. There's three dogs? There's the old one and there's two sort of more nimble ones. I believe. I believe that's the case.

Any amount of dogs in someone else's RV is probably too many dogs. That said, they're adorable and I support them in all of their life choices, including apparently like peeing under the bed. How did it get in there? No clue. This is the question with dogs perpetually. How did they do that? I don't know.

Doesn't make sense. Okay. Let me ask you a question. This is based off. of spoilers for tin cup. Yeah. This is the spoiler section for tin cup, I guess? A very old movie.

This is a sports movie question. Do you prefer a sports story where our main character wins, or do you prefer a story where our main character loses? I like the loss. Yeah. I'm a sucker for the bittersweet. Yeah. I'm a sucker for the moral victory with a literal defeat.

Yeah. I think that makes for a more interesting storytelling. especially because the natural tension is always going to be, we're expecting them to win. Like how are they going to do this? We know that they're down in the fourth quarter. We know that they're trailing on the leaderboard. It's like, how are they going to pull it together?

The answer is a lot of times you don't. Yeah. But you learn something about yourself along the way, Joe. I like the loss that, yeah, you're right, the moral victory. I'm not sure Tim Cup qualifies as that. The question about Tim Cup is, does his character actually go on any journey whatsoever? I don't know that he does. Some self-awareness, I think, is gained.

Maybe the hope that he will continue to go to therapy with not his girlfriend. Yeah. Might be something. His therapy goes off the rails pretty quickly. Yeah, but what if he were seeing a different therapist? Well, I don't think he was interested in going to see any other therapist. That's kind of the crux of the thing. But Tin Cup is not a win.

That's a move that ends with a loss. And it's not a loss where the athlete necessarily has the moral victory. He has just decided, fuck it. This is who I am. I'm a loose. canon and that's who I'm going to be. Or take the big memorable swing and don't play it safe. But there are other sports movies where the loss is, for the sake of to save this relationship

or this other priority in my life, I need to let go of the trophy is the only thing that matters. And I will sacrifice that for this other win in my life. Yeah. For Santee, though, like, what is the potential, like, moral victory or, you know, emotional journey that he can go on that would make not winning, still winning for him. Well, I think the emotional journey that he started to go on, right? Like, he started allowing himself to be coached, getting back into golf after apparently not playing it for a long time,

bumping heads with Price pretty quickly once they get into the process of actually playing tournaments and then turning to Manic Pixie former bartender. Zero. A zero, apparently, who helps him embrace his power and like his own instincts. Yeah. And so, yeah, those are like the two presence is on his shoulder, right? Like the two voices in his ear kind of pulling him in these different directions. But ultimately, like, the healing is the reason he quit golf,

which we're kind of, it's intimated that like something about his dad ruined their relationship in some way. And now that ruined his relationship with golf. And so it's like repairing the relationship with golf doesn't fix the relationship with your dad,

but it may plug some kind of hole in yourself in the process. Right. Find a different father figure, one who hopefully will not bet money on your wins or losses on your first day back. But one that has their own child size hole in their life, courtesy of their maybe dead, I assume dead. Child.

She says it won't bring him back. Yeah. It's not, it won't bring him back from college. We'll bring him back from boarding school. I'm sorry. I also love, I mean, he puts in the DVD that's like all their home movies or whatever. Yeah. And it's like a real dead wife montage.

moment, except Judy Greer's still alive. And so then there's the reveal that there's like, I mean, they had already had the It Won't Bring Him Back moment. And I was expecting him to just dig a photo out of a box. And then he got the DVD and then we had to see all of that. And it was, it was a lot. One of my favorite elements of the dead family member montage in any way is the like, who is holding the camera question?

Like, there's times where it's like, they're both in the frame and the camera's like upstairs looking down? It's Merrin. It's Mark Merrin. Just living upstairs. I don't know what's going on with the camera work in that house. And I don't know what's going on with that montage. You probably didn't need it.

I would, you know, here's the thing. To bring it back to your, do you prefer if they win or lose question? I prefer leaving it on the, it's not going to bring them back. We don't need the montage. I really agree. And I don't even need them to win or lose. In some ways, my ultimate preference is Friday Night Light Style, ball in the air. Oh, my God.

Ball in the air. It's my favorite. Cut to the future. And you see where these people are. And that's like showing their emotional growth. But maybe not their. literal change in status from winning. Isn't there a championship ring that lets us know how that went? But a subtle one. Yeah, it's a subtle. It's a subtle reveal. I was going to say Friday Night

Lights Ball in the Air is one of the all-time versions of that. Absolutely. Someone we have not seen yet in this show is our guy Tim Oliphon. Yeah. He's got guest star status. Is this, do we feel our shooter McGavin, our David Sims? He was born to be it. He would be such a good shooter McGavin. Yeah. Like, here's the thing. Owen Wilson is such a great talker. that you need someone he's going to bounce off of that's going to be the antidote to his kind of charisma. And we've already seen him starting to make, again, these side bets with the competitors themselves and kind of insert himself into that dynamic. Who better to bounce off of than Tim Aliphant for that? And Tim Aliphant knows a thing or two about acting opposite a charismatic guy with a gift of the gab.

He certainly does. Okay, that's exciting. And then also Ryan Kira Armstrong is listed as a guest star, Ryan Kira, Armstrong, who we talked about recently because she's the new lead of the Buffy Vampire Slayer. Reboot, question mark, whatever that is. Any, you know, any thoughts or feelings about how she might be used? She's 15. Who is she in this show?

She's 15. She's 15. Okay, I'm glad we talked about that because one of the elements of this show that I think you'd have to be along for the ride for is, so Sonti's 17. Yeah. Presumably, I guess he... Is it summer? Is it summer? Did he graduate high school already?

And he's like, you know, a little advanced for his age. I don't know. But he like basically the pitch is made as far as like Price comes to the family, comes to Santi. He's like, I want to coach you. I want to take you on this tour to play in these tournaments. I think one of the good things about the Elena portrayal is like she is, like, she is understandably very skeptical of all of this shit. It's like this is happening very fast. This guy just showed up. I don't know who he is. He just got arrested. Here's his weird friend who's driving the RV. There's $100,000 in my lap, but like I kind of don't even want to take it. I'm so skeptical of this situation. But ultimately, this is a kid who's just like going on the road very, very quickly within the grand scheme of things. It's not like leaving school behind. There's no conversation about like what about finals. You're just out there playing golf tournaments all of a sudden. Was it the who that made you think about almost famous and Willie Miller getting home in time for graduation? He promised he would not miss a single exam.

And he lied. He did lie. He lied. Yeah, at least his mom is on the road with him. The fact that Sonti is 17, this zero I just it's the name more than anything else I didn't mind the character necessarily but like zero it was a bummer because we don't at least to my knowledge like hear her name in this episode or in these episodes do we yeah someone calls her zero I think her boss calls her zero that's oh that's right he comes to sculptor after she that whole sequence in which she's like gets to performatively pour the pitcher or I guess the beer on the golf pros yeah miss me I guess with that. No, we've seen better. We've seen it done better.

It doesn't really need to be done at all. There are much better ways to streamline and fast line a character than that. I agree. I agree. It's been a bumpy introduction. I didn't mind her, like, conversation with Santi. And what I like about her is like, so she is, that actress is in her late 20s. So we're not trying to say this is someone who is remotely near Santi's age.

Yeah. But he does have kind of hearts in his eyes when he's looking at her. tell? She's not, she doesn't seem uninterested. In the 17 year old? I don't know how old she is. The actress is 28. That's tough for me. Maybe she is uninterested. That's tough for me.

Here's maybe what I'm picking up on. There's like they have real chemistry in terms of their performance and how the characters will read that, I don't really know. Okay. I will wait to find out what age zero is supposed to be before I've passed judgment on it. But right now I'm like, I'm hoping that he has a crush on her, so is more willing to listen to her, admittedly, good advice.

You know, and then she just likes him and is at loose ends and do they bring her on the team? Do they draft her to be on the coaching team? Is she in the RV? Like, what, you know, I can't see any other way we organically get her to every tourney going forward. It's a little extracurricular in terms of like our understanding that she's cast in the show in a substantial way. But like, I just don't, I don't understand how she wouldn't be on the RV. Well, the episode ends with who's that. and then her boss saying trouble.

She's trouble. Again, there's some things in the show that's like, why are they doing that? And yet, I am perpetually charmed by it. You're enchanted. I'm in. And here's the thing. We are clearly bumping on that character.

I have hope that they will round her into something more closely resembling human form. Yeah. I do think she's important, though, as we're zeroing in on the dad demographic. Zeroing in on, yeah. Wow. I just wandered straight into that,

right into that water hazard, unfortunately. she's an important character for the dad demo. Like as you're saying, if Apple is target, if part of the audience are liberal dads, you also want dads across the aisle who look at this young woman talking about how aren't we all participating in the exploitation of labor? And then by comparison, identify more with Owen Wilson's character price as they are kind of put up cross purposes. I think she's a natural philosophical tension point for the show in a way that is good

for some audience members and frustrating for other audiences. members. And for people like us, I just want a human. To be clear, I think I need to come up with, I think West Coast Dad is more what I want more than, or coastal elite dad or something like that, more than, it's less political and more vibe-centric, what I'm trying to narrow down here. Because I don't need it to be like liberal versus conservative, but I think there is just something dad-centric about Apple, a lot of couple programming that is somehow different from the dad-centric program over at Paramount. So listen, the dads are being served.

They are. And we support them. And you know what? Apparently I am too. Apparently my inner dad is being served, Joe. But one of the hurdles in this episode for Santi is like, what do you do when you're frustrated? Like when you're starting to spiral, where do you go? What do you tell yourself?

You know, we learned that Elena mentally checks out and goes to the beach. They literally say happy place, which is the happy Gilmore thing. I mean, again, this is straight out of heavy Comor, straight into the mental heaven where Chubbs is playing the piano. Julie Bowen has two pictures of beer. Two pictures of beer, scantily clad. Look, everyone's happy place is different. Sure. We hear as well that prices is like singing Cecilia to himself.

Do you have a happy place, Joe? Do you have your own place you go to in moments of mental turmoil and anguish? Yeah, yeah. It's actually genuinely, I should have a fun answer for this. Yeah. genuinely it's like on the Pacific coast, like right by the ocean. Rocky waves crashing. Rocky waves crashing.

I mean, that's some incredible white noise. How about you? I am a little more nihilistic. I am a like zoom out. It's happy place. Well, my- Why are you bringing nihilism to the happy place conversation? I'm not trying to get happy.

I'm trying to get calm. Okay. You know, and so I am zooming out a speck on a piece of land, on a rock, hurtling through. Oh, our lives don't count at all. Exactly. What do I mean to the grand scale of the universe? That's my happy place, ultimately.

What that says about me, I'm going to leave to you and to Renee Rousseau to figure out. Follow up question. At what point this season are we singing Cecilia? Oh, yeah. Is it an almost famous everyone in the RV is singing Cecilia? This is the first thought. Okay. Turmoil in the RV.

Yeah. maybe it is as simple as driving through a storm. And it's like, we got to all calm down. Okay. You know, everyone's freaking out. But, like, I mean, what are the alternatives to that? I would say leading up to it in order to seat it properly, I would like to hear Owen Wilson sort of like whisper muttersing it to himself in order to calm down. But yeah, I'm just wondering if we're headed for like a tiny dancer moment.

Sondi doesn't even know the song Cecilia. No, but he seemed interested in hearing it. There's only like 20 lyrics, to be clear. And it's a lot of drum work in that song. Okay, so you're saying RV and when do we get it? Like mid-season or is this an end of season? Is this a reconciliation moment? I think it's going to be a getting over the hump end of second act.

So is this a 10-episode season? Do we know that? It is. Six-seven somewhere in there? Anything else you want to say about stick or tin cup? Would you recommend people watch tin? So this is our question. We share with each other mid-90s.

golf movies, both expressing a little concern that they would not hold up in a 2026 let 2025. That's not, it's not 2026. 2025 lens. One, one wishes it were. Can we fast forward? For me, it's not even like, will it hold up in 2025? It's more like I first saw this movie when I was 12 years old. And so I will always be 12 years old when I watch it. And so how will it stand up to you, Joanna Robinson, a normal adult person? Yeah, well, the question about that is there's just too much cultural currency around Happy Gilmore for me to be able to judge it effectively. Including, very importantly, the sequel coming out soon, which you are now caught up on all the appropriate lore for. I can't wait. I understand the heckler. I understand the caddy. I understand everything. Are you too good for your home is something that I have said many, many times in my life.

Wow. Kind of knowing it was a Happy Comer reference, but like. You had osmosed it. Yeah, because, like, my friends would quote it all the time. So it's like, it's a funny thing to say. The Price is wrong bitch is also, of course, an iconic happy Gilmoreism that has made it into my lexicon. Rest in peace to Bob Barker. It's a real shame he can't be around for the sequel. Like iconic performance in Happy Gilmore.

So I think that I had a great time with Happy Gilmore, knowing exactly what it would be. Yes. What were your tin cup? I mean, I know you liked it, but like in terms of would you recommend it to people who have not seen it before? Would absolutely recommend it. I mean, you know, you brought up Bull Durham as far as, like, coming from the same creative suite. Yeah. I think it hits the exact same sweet spot, one that we indulge in quite a bit here at the ringer,

which is, like, assigning cosmic divine meaning to the randomness of sports and to basically, like, our smallest obsessions, right? Like, taking this thing that you care about, and all of a sudden, it is a unifying theory of the universe. And, like, Bull Durham is big on that, too, like, the cosmic circumstances that bring people together and that cause them to, like, orbit each other with and without sports. That element of Tin Cup, I think, is great. I think the relationship within Tin Cup is great. The golf, honestly, like, again, for someone who is not prone to love golf on screen, like, I need to be sold on it in the way that Happy Gilmore sells me on it.

I fucking loved it. It's great. It is a purely crowd-pleasing movie that I think would work for a lot of different people. I also have to say, in the world of professional sports cameos, I find the pro golfers who show up in both Happy Gilmore and Tin Cup to be very, very charming. Pretty good. Do you want to hear a story about how they got the pro golfer cameos in Tin Cup? I would love nothing more.

Okay, so one of the producers on Tin Cup, and I don't have his name right in front of me, is a pro golfer himself. And he plays the guy in the bar who does the announcing as Roy is trying to like like... Into the soda gun. Yeah, into the soda gun. So that guy is a real pro golfer and was a producer on the film. And he wanted a bunch of pro golfers to show up in the movie, but he did not want to have to deal with agents and he did not want to have to pay them.

Yeah. So. Speaking of the exploitation of labor. Among the pro golfers are doing fine, I think. Well, what these movies suggest and the show suggests is maybe they are doing fine, Joe. Not up here, man. Well, certainly not. But again, in one of the golf podcasts,

I listened to over this last week. He told the story about how in order to not have to deal with agents and get to the golfers directly at a tournament, he had Don Johnson and Kevin Costner show up for a dinner for the golf players' wives and flirt with the wives so that they could convince the wives to tell their husbands to show up to be in Tin Cup. And that's why you have so many in Tin Cup, which I think they got. for a song. So, yeah, it's great time. Kevin Costner showing up to flirt with anyone is an incredibly powerful bribery tool. And I say that as someone, as you know, Joe, like Kevin Costner,

not my particular brand. I wanted to follow up here. I mean, I know we're here to talk essentially about stick, but a bombshell you dropped on me recently was that you don't vibe with Kevin Kossner, who is much beloved by many ringer luminaries. Yeah. So, but you do like Bull Durham. I do. And you did enjoy tin cup. So what, and and we've both not seen JFK. Are we allowed to admit that on a microphone? I think that's okay. What is it about Kevin Costner that doesn't usually work for you?

And why does it work in these two sportsmen? I would venture to guess it's part of what makes him very attractive to people, which is like the smarm. What reads to me as smarm and to other people as confidence or a cockiness that's like appealing, to me doesn't work well with the fact that in his movies, in a way that feels contractual to me, it's like he has to one up everybody. It's like even when he loses, he still gets to be right. Yeah.

And so it's like when every movie kind of has that tone, I get a little worn down by it. And what works about Tin Cup is like, he just loses a lot. He's very often quite wrong. Yeah. And so he gets the one-up moments, but it's like, you're doing this for the exact wrong reasons. You don't realize it. Every other character does. They're all trying to help you.

Yeah. But you can't get out of your own way. Like that's a version of Kevin Costner. I get behind. He doesn't play that version very often. I was excited for you to see this because I feel like Roy McAvoy, his character in Tin Cup is, is this a sneaky, a backdoor tin cup podcast, maybe.

It's my favorite Costner performance. Has there been a tin cuff rewatchables? No. I guess this is it? Or the pilot. No, this is our bid. This is our bit. I have thoughts about Waffle House,

about the Permian Basin. Like, we need to go deeper. Oh, okay, okay. But he's such a perfect loser in this movie and a perfect loser that you want to root for. Yes. And I like having Kossner a lot. I love Bull Durham.

It's one of my favorite movies. but this is my favorite Costner. And Tim Cup is a top five sports movie for me. And I'm just going to say that that is a fact and a truth. I think that's, I have no objection whatsoever. Great. Love that. And as far as the stick element, I think Owen Wilson plays a great loser too. He's always going to be at least a little bit likable.

And they can kind of adjust that depending on what sort of character he's playing. But yeah, that that baseline charm plus the fact that there's always something about him that's like overly complimentary, overly flowery in his diet. dialogue in a lot of his parts. It's like, again, it's like you're a little full of it, but I want to hear you keep saying it. And I kind of believe it and you make me want to believe it about myself. And it's interesting to watch it because this is different from how much of Loki did you wind up watching? Yeah, love Loki. So like Mobius, his character in Loki is different because he doesn't look like Owen Wilson in that, right? He's got different hair. He still looks like Owen Wilson. But like he looks paternal in a certain way.

he is playing a different, not his usual Owen Wilson thing. He's got the laconic charm, but not, there's just something more put together and less scattershot about Bobius. In Loki. Yes, yes. This is a version by contrast where Judy Greer's character praises him for wearing a clean shirt. This is what I'm saying. So this is the Owen Wilson that we met in Wedding Crashers is a Royal

Tenembaum's Owen Wilson is even a bit of Darjeeling Limited Owen Wilson, you know what you mean? Like this is the Owen Wilson we met decades ago and I love watching him in this because he's got his like you know, beechy blonde hair

but it's decades later. So what does that archetype do for us decades later? And to your point about the Judy Greer character like sometimes this is a man child. Like that's there's no two ways around it. As is Kevin Costner and Tin Cup, as as is Adam Sandler and as is, and I can say this with professional certainty, many professional

athletes. So like this is a man child and sometimes I don't have patience for that, but there is something about having spent time with Owen Wilson that like I'm really invested in this man child learning how to grow up. Yeah. I really want to see it, you know? I think what's, what's so great about him as a performer and, you know, he's had many different lives playing all sorts of different parts, but kind of wandering to this stage in his career where he's done kind of the very, like, arch sometimes can't be very stylized, like West Anderson stuff, obviously that you alluded to, but also the deep comedy like wedding crashers. And we round the corner into something where it's like, I think maybe this started with more like Midnight in Paris era,

Owen Wilson, which is a great performance, a great movie, and kind of gets to this idea of this, of him having a lot of bluster, certainly, a lot of bravado sometimes or insecurity sometimes, but like a deep interiority that I don't think a lot of comic actors just like bring to every performance. Like there's a degree of like this guy is like running from something or hiding something or fighting something in basically every role he ever plays. And recently that's become I just want my kids back. Whether it's Mobius or in this case, in the case of this former golf pro who unfortunately lost his maybe young son, I guess we'll find out. I think that I think that's a really good point. And I think to go back to to to go back to.

something like Darjeeling Limited, which is like not by any stretch the best West Anderson movie, but is one that I actually returned to a lot and think about a lot because it came at this really interesting crossroads with Owen Wilson's own life. And so there is forever this soulful nature to an Owen Wilson that, you know, goes beyond what a Luke Wilson can bring to the table. Luke Wilson can bring plenty. I like. He's a soulful man himself. But but there's just like something different about I've been through it. Yeah. About Owen Wilson that brings us here to Stick.

He's just a delightful scamp. Like I don't know how to say it. Luke Wilson might be a little too, like when he gets sad, he gets kicked puppy. When Owen Wilson gets sad, it's like, there's still something. Needle in the Haystarts playing. That's what happens. Big week for needle drops. All right.

Anything else you want to say about stick, golf, sports, cinema. stories for dads. We covered a lot of ground, to be honest with you. Losers guys, small dogs. I don't know how we're going to cover this show exactly. We're covering this with three episodes. We're not doing this week-to-week. We're probably not doing it week-to-week.

It's a triple premiere. So that's why we're covering these first three episodes. I would encourage people to check it out. Again, I think a lot of people will like this show. Will it reach a Ted Lasso level of fame? That's a high bar to clear. Yeah. But personally, I would be down for it.

I'm also just curious to see kind of how we want to continue to unpack this at all. Yeah, we'll see how the show goes and where it feels like a natural point to check back in. We will, speaking of sort of shows we're checking in on, our plan is for next week to check back in on Pokerface. There's been another four episodes for us to talk about, so we're excited to do that. Anything else? I guess just email us at prestige TV at Spotify.com. If you're watching this show, if you like this show. How is Santee's golf swing?

How is the golf on stick? We're talking to you, Chris Ryan and Sean Fennacy. Like we need some relatively expert testimonial that is above our pay grade. Please do. And that's it. I'm Jonah Robinson. That's Rob Mahoney. And we'll see you soon.

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