The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Hacks’ Season 4 Finale: Fashion Emergencies, Bad Karaoke, and a TMZ Hoax

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

Mal and Nora relax to the max to recap the Season 4 finale of ‘Hacks.’ (0:00) Intro (5:01) Thoughts on both the finale and the season as a whole (11:59) What’s the next evolution of Deborah and Ava’s relationship? (22:21) Favorite episode (32:32) Best scene (38:09) Favorite plotline (44:01) Funniest one-liner (51:57) Favorite duo (56:53) Closing thoughts Email us! [e-mail] Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Nora Princiotti Producers: Kai Grady and Donnie Beacham Jr. Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everyone? It's Rachel Lindsay, and if you love all things Bravo, then you need to be listening to Morley Corrupt. Every Tuesday and Friday, your favorite ringer podcasters and I dive into Bravo's biggest moments and dish out hot and always unfiltered takes. And guess what? Now you can watch us too. That's right, Morley Corrupt is now available in video on Spotify. So whether you're listening in your family van or watching next to your white refrigerator, Don't be all uncool and miss out. Catch new episodes every Tuesday and Friday, only on the Ringer Reality TV feed. This episode is brought to you by Borishead.

What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Borishead just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it, presenting the friar's turkey breast only from Borris Head. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter.

Visit your local daily today, discover the craftsmanship behind every bite, Boershead, committed to craft since 1905. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce, and some very tasty, limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch,

as is their trending mango, Yuzu, chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with the yellow sales sign storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Hello. And welcome to the Prestige TV podcast.

I'm Mallory Rubin. Joining me today. I took her phone. deleted her posts, got some Taco Bell in her system, cheesy bean burrito, and now she's back home sleeping like she's dead. It's Nora Prenciotti, our dance mom.

Mallory, I do want you to know that I am renting this place from Adam Levine, and we have been texting. Let me know if you're prepared to toss any huffing instruments during the pot and suddenly shout, Steve Nash. Now I'm on guard. Now I'm on guard. I don't know if I can get fired for saying this, but I promise that I won't ask you to boof it at any point during this podcast recording.

Thank you. Thanks for stating that. I don't think it's the last time that boofing it will come up today. However, it's obviously a core part of the Hacks canon in the second half of season four. And that's what we're here to discuss today. We're reconvening after our recent Hacks mid-season check-in to chat about the last four episodes of Season 4 of Hacks, including the recent season four finale, which just aired. Before we ask the flight attendant, what pairs well with Xanax, and she very kindly says,

water? Thanks, Doc. Thanks, Doc. Here's what else has been cooking recently on the Prestige TV podcast. There's a ton of great stuff waiting for people to catch up on. The rehearsal.

Your friends and neighbors. The studio. starring our fellow Ringer podcaster, that felony of the town, which by the way, also got a mention on this run of hacks. And of course, the Last of Us. So the Prestige TV feed

and the Ringer TV YouTube channel are loaded with great pods on awesome recent TV runs. Check it all out if you haven't. And of course, subscribe on Spotify and subscribe to the Ringer TV channel on YouTube

because you can watch it. watch. You can watch video episodes of the prestige TV podcast. What a thrill, what a joy. It's so cool. Great stuff. We're able to see our faces. Nora, any of your many podcasts that you'd like to tease here before we know? Oh my gosh. I mean, every single album in the middle of just an electric Miley Cyrus run, people can catch up on that. By the time this is out, if Miley's album, Something Beautiful, will be in the universe. And so I,

I just think that that's the essential syllabus for all things, Miley. I quite agree. I also have to plug, we're obsessed. I mean, Jody Walker, if you want to listen to Jody talk about the rehearsal, that's fabulous. But if you want to listen to Jody with me, talk about bisexual jorts, Bill Belichick and his girlfriend, and just like a lot of things that are going on in the universe. I couldn't recommend it enough, even though, you know, if I do say so myself. You have airline safety regulations on one feed?

and jorts on the other. And that is the ringer, frankly, in miniature. Absolutely. What a time. Nora, I don't believe in heaven, but I do believe in hell, and I do believe in podcasting with you, so let's get to it.

Let's do it. We are going to follow like a similar approach to what we did in our mid-season check-in. We're going to talk a little bit at the top about the finale and the season as a whole now that it is concluded, and then we're going to hit some superlatives. The episodes that are in the mix today more prominently, and you can talk about anything from the season if you'd like.

episodes four, season four, episode seven, season four episode eight, season four episode nine, and season four episode ten. Including season four, episode seven, decrysiting. Dechristening. I know. Which of the week is slippery slope in heaven were sort of letdowns on the title front after decrysoning starring DJ. It's really good.

Just a sensational bit of titling. A nice run there with Mrs. Table right into decrysoning. Great stuff. Nora. give us your opening thoughts. What did you think about the season four finale? I was sort of surprised by it. I thought I knew where it was going

after we reached in episode nine kind of this climactic moment of after in the first half of the season, we've heard Ava say, is Debra ever really going to sacrifice for me? Is she ever really going to do anything but take advantage? of me and Deborah does

and it's really beautiful and it's this moment of these two characters that we love really fully finishing their reconciliation. It was just like absolutely heartwarming and wonderful and I loved watching it. And then the last episode which is dealing with Deborah

sort of coming to terms with the fact that she has this non-compete and that she's off late night and figuring out what she wants to do with that time I thought went into some places that I was not expecting it to and ended up being a bit of a strange finale to the season. That said, HACC season four as a whole, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

It was maybe a little scattered, but I think the same thing that we talked about on the midseason pod, on a line-to-line scene-to-scene basis, nothing is funnier than the show, and I love it very much. Yeah, I feel very similarly about the finale and the season overall. I'll tip my pick for one of our categories. We'll talk about it more when we get there. But our first category in a few minutes is favorite episode. And I thought episode nine was like genuinely great.

Like not only clearly the best episode of this run for me, but one of the best hacks episodes, I think the emotional wallup and catharsis that we got for the reasons you're describing. And just in general, the way the end of this season, you know, we talked a lot in our midseason pod about like you're noting the pairing of comedy and emotion on that beach scene. But the thing that Ava was articulating, like, you're always going to let me down, really pulling on something for us as viewers, because that's also our fear when we go to hacks every episode, is that like no matter how hard they try, they're going to fail each other.

And boy, is that a sad thing to have to confront about the relationships that mean the most to you in your life, something to just noodle on. But to see that not happen. And the way inside of episode nine, that they very expertly and deftly fuck. with our certainty, our ingrained expectations as viewers that that is what would happen and all the moments that were intended to poke at and heighten our suspicion and our dread? Just fantastic. And I was like moved to tears by that episode. And then the finale, I was like, wait, what is it?

Why are we doing this? Why didn't the season just end in the penultimate episode? And some of why the finale couldn't live up to the penultimate was just all of that, right? this will not be the first or last time we do a hacks pod where basically 80% of the conversation is about Kayla and Jimmy instead of Deborah and Emma. And they were sorely lacking in the finale. They just were not, we got like a second of them in the finale.

And that is just frankly not acceptable to me in a hacks episode. I mean, I think people who are listening to this, have seen it. So this is not a, I'm not anticipating this is a spoiler. But just say it out loud. Why did we go to Singapore? It's, you know, listen, Deborah, will find the loophole. If there's a loophole in the contract, she will find it and it will impact not only Ava's vacation plans, but also our television consumption. I thought what they were going to do

and I still have a little weird kernel of hope and we can talk about where things might go in season five, but that this might be part of it. I thought that Deborah was going to write for Ava. I thought that this was going to turn into, oh, Deborah can't perform for 18 months, but she can write. And maybe Ava is going to start getting some time on. on stage and there's going to be this role reversal and it's going to be really creatively fulfilling for both of them. And I was like, I had decided that's where it was going within five minutes of the episode beginning and I was so geared up for it and then they get off the plane. It's like, you've been asleep for 18 hours and we're in a completely different

part of the world. That was very amusing. That had, well, you just, that had never occurred to me as a possibility. I wonder if you have a pure heart than I do. Wow. literally never occurred to me that Deborah would try to do something for Eva. Even though she just had done something for her, she just did something massive for her. I do think that I have a little bit of a push pull with, and this is something that the showrunners, Jen Statsky and Paul W. Downs, I've heard them talk about,

that they write this core relationship to hacks as a romance. Yeah. And it is a really interesting idea. and it does come through in terms of how deeply you want it to work between the two of them and how emotionally invested I am in this show for something that is ostensibly like, you know, it has a relationship to the format of a situation comedy, which is sort of light and fluffy, but hacks run so much deeper. And I do think that it is a credit to how they write this relationship.

That said, sometimes I find myself craving for the Deborah and, Ava storyline to be written as like a buddy comedy instead. Where it's not about will these people ever stop failing each other? It is about can these people who have very different ways of seeing the world work together to tackle a shared problem? This is a really interesting point because I think rationally, logically, conceptually, I agree with you completely. But in practice, the episodes that we have gotten that function like that, I never find as satisfying.

Like, do you remember the episode in season three where they got lost on the hike? Which I think was very much in the mold of what you're describing. That was real buddy comedy energy. And I was just like, what is happening? And I think a lot of people liked that episode a lot. But for me, it was like missing something that felt core about the DNA of their relationship. and the dynamic between them. But I think what your citing feels crucial

when we assess this larger question of what is the overall life span of hacks? Hacks has been renewed for season five. Great. We're thrilled. Snaps for hacks. We'd love to keep watching Hax. This is great.

But this question of, you know, we were going to hit this at the very end to wrap today, but I think actually we should just do it right here before we then look back a little bit more on the back half of season four. How top of mind is that for you when you're thinking about the future of Hax? is the way that the relationship needs to evolve. Because we talked about this a little bit in our mid-season pod.

You sort of like want to keep luxurating inside of the thing that you love about a character set that you enjoy spending time with. But there is that tug of like how many times can we run back the same thing. I think this is clearly, I will say also, beyond just Deborah and Eva as a duo on the show's mind. Because one of the things that was really interesting to me about where the season ultimately went in episodes 9 and 10 is like, it felt like we were building for years to late night, years,

because we were, we were building for years to late night. And then we did it for a few episodes and now we're done. And that was kind of shocking to me. Not in a bad way, though, in a way that I admire, where it's like maybe I could see a little bit of whiplash-inducing response for some audience members who were like, wait, I sort of thought this was the Grail. And I understand that part of the thematic text is the character.

saying maybe that's not what my grail actually is, right? Well, maybe I need to, like, assess what matters to me and why and how that has changed and altered based on the people I've spent time with who have enriched my life, which is, like, a really cool thing to have gotten to witness. Deborah, one of the most selfish and self-motivated people when we started our experience with her, come to terms with and actually decide to actively embrace, right? And then immediately have to, like, stew in the inevitable resentment of what that really means in practice. But the like we're moving toward late night and now we're back to Vegas and then we're on a plane and now we're on Singapore. We're going to go back and like what does it mean to work on

the, even the discussion about the special. Like I don't want to spend 18 months working on a special again and look in the mirror. I need the crowd. Obviously, some of that was born out of the urine and non-compete and like big Bob is ready to sue you. I will say this about the finale. Incredible opening scene with the Randos Strip Mall lawyer who was like, don't let my cat get out. The cat was amazing. Let me know if you need to sue anyone. leave an instrument in your body during surgery. Even a sponge. Even a sponge. That was good. And then she leaves and he goes, where is the cat? Where is the cat? I'm worried about the cat. I hope the cat is a guy. I mean, I know, Mallory, that's a thought that goes through your head.

Top of mind. But yeah, so whether it's the late night is not actually the thing anymore and we're going to either run it back with a different form of comedy that we've already dabbled in or pursue something new or whether it's the nature of their relationship. Like, now that we're through the fourth season, where are you with this larger, almost excess. substantial question for Hax. How much of it in the future do you want to, like, feel familiar? And how much of it do you want to feel, like, radically distinct from the thing you've loved about the show to this point? I think I return to something that I don't think feels like it was a huge part of this season, but is ultimately familiar to me within the Hax universe, which is I do want to see Deborah and Ava at work together. Yeah. because I certainly take your point that some of the episodes that do function in that buddy comedy kind of vibe have been a little bit strange.

I think sometimes that's because those have been the ones where they just sort of choose to take the gang on location, whether it's the woods or Vegas or whatever. And those are always... It's true. They can be magical in moments, but I don't totally always understand the impulse. But I do think that one of my favorite modes for this show, if not my favorite, is when Deborah and Eva are together, but that there is a crackle and attention in the relationship because there is kind of a third person. They are in a little bit of a thruple, right, to return to a theme. And the third person is comedy. They both love comedy.

They come at it in different ways. in combination that makes magic, but I want to see them doing it. So part of the slightly strange note of the finale to me was that we've just had this culmination of the interpersonal relationship, and I'm geared up to see them make love to each other in the way that they do between the two of them,

which is to make comedy together. And then because of so much of 10 is Deborah is not emotionally in a place to be writing new material and working on new material. Not emotionally. Deborah fell asleep on stage. Deborah fell asleep on stage. For 20 minutes. The honk shoes were coming for her as they come for us all.

As they come for us all. And so I would like to see them working together. Nobody wants to work anymore. Kim Kardashian said it. I say it now. And so I want to see them spending more time riffing and writing jokes together because it's my favorite thing to watch on a screen that is showing hacks. You know, this makes me think of one of the kind of classic hacks.

You're laughing, you're uncomfortable in a totally intended way, and then suddenly you're like deeply moved by the thing you just witnessed. in the end of episode seven where Deborah is really grappling with and wrestling with this. On the one hand, I was very proud of DJ for standing up to her mother the way that she did. I thought that was cool to see. But she really said something deeply hurtful to Deborah when she basically said, you don't believe in anything. And I thought that watching Ava and Deborah in the car back to the Americana, that was just the role of the Americana again in the set of a set of.

episodes, just wonderful stuff for us, for the folks who live actually out here in L.A. And this gets to, like, what you were just saying about the third person in the relationship and the third person in the throuple, because what Ava was basically saying to Deborah, and then what led Deborah to go to the comedy club, you know, was like, you do actually believe in something. You do have a religion. It's comedy. Like, this is the thing that orientes your life.

Sure isn't Catholicism. It's definitely. Mark Wahlberg sends me a rosary every year, not as a gift as a threat, was quietly one of the best moments of the season. It's going to be one of my superlatives. I loved it so much. I'm really glad you have that as one of your picks because that was just sensational. And somehow a callback to the George Clooney does break because he's a sick man.

Oh, God, it's so good. I love that. This does bring me to the last thing I wanted to hit about the finale, though, before we move on to our superlados. You're getting it on the record here. You want them to be working. And you're not alone because despite Deborah falling asleep on stage and insisting that after four drinks on the yacht party, she's sober. Deborah wants to work. And I would like to ask you, I think it's important when we discuss this

for your reflections on Deborah's stance on vacation because this wounded me deeply. We've seen a lot of painful things on hacks, but nothing quite like this. You know, I don't do vacations, Deborah said. I can't stand sitting around all day doing nothing. I just keep wishing I was working. And I would like to say it couldn't be me.

I actually am not capable of understanding this. People who love work. Yes, I love work. I spend a lot of time working. You know what I love? A lot. Vacation. Vacation.

Absolutely vacation. I like to consider myself the duolipa of the ringer, or at least I like to say that I aspire to such. And therefore I was, yeah, no, Deborah's stance is not justifiable. And I also, I know that we were getting a portrait of her in the finale of, of a woman who is really going through some dark things. Yes. But I do feel that she enjoyed herself a little bit when she was just relaxing.

She was getting that massage and she was putting cucumber slices over her eyes and she was saying, you know, Eva, I don't want to talk about work. And yes, it is because I'm feeling wounded and I don't want to go through those emotions. But also it's because I'm getting a massage. Yeah. The stretch in Vegas before we got to Singapore. Because in Singapore, she has the balance, at least, that, like, jolt of electricity if I'm back on stage. I found my loophole.

I'm not violating my contract if the translator is actually the one doing the show, Deborah. But that great montage we got while we were still back in Vegas and Deborah was like really going through it, lamenting this quiet period. And this led not only to a moment where Sabina had to put her hand over Deborah's mouth to see if she was breathing and ask why she wound up in bed with only one shoe on, but the single most distressing and disturbing thing that I have seen yet on hacks, which was Deborah getting Diet Coke and a little bottle of booze, and then opening it and putting the bottle and the cap of the open bottle down on the top of a public Las Vegas trash can pouring the booze and shaking it up and then going

about her day. This is just not okay, and it's just not acceptable. So let's embrace vacation rather than putting our beverage vessels on Vegas trash cans. It's just my note to Deborah if she's willing to take it. It seems like this season was about her being willing to take some notes. In our Miley Cyrus series on every single album, one thing that Nathan and I recently discussed is that Miley last year had to go to the ICU because she filmed a music video for a song called Walk of Fame, and she rolled around on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

It's a no. It's a no for me. really badly infected her knee. And I still think that I would rather do that than drink out of a bottle that has had secondary contact with the top of a Las Vegas trash can. It was really harrowing stuff. I also, you did mention that the, um, Josefina asking her why she only has one shoe on, the response, I was taking a break. Taking a break was very good. I like to think that I'm generally in a mentally healthier place than our girl Deb was during this scene.

I've taken a break between shoes before. Sure. Yeah. Who hasn't? Who hasn't? We're all human. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terseptide may be able to help.

Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical. activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15 milligram injection. Zepound contains terseptide and should not be used with other terseptide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a

lump or swelling in your neck. Stop, Zepbound, and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99 or visit Zepbounce.lilie.com.

Whatever bike you're looking for from Mountain to Road, either pedal powered or electric, we've got what you want ready for super-fast delivery. Quality gear at prices you won't find in your average bike shop. LightsHomeline.com. Ride more for less. It's time to refresh your yard during spring backyard days at the Home Depot.

Get low prices guaranteed on propane grills starting at $179 like the next grill three burner gas grill or get $50 off to select Weber Spirit grill and bring big flavor

to your backyard. Then set the scene with Hampton Bay string lights that bring it all together. Shop spring backyard days for seven days at the Home Depot. Now through May 6th. Exclusion supplies

to you, Home Depot. column slash price match for details. Norales, let's get to our superlatives. Let's do it. We've already teased it. The first category today's favorite episode. I've already told you that mine is episode nine is slippery slope.

Is that yours as well? Yeah, I mean, it is not only sort of the culmination of what has been going on through a lot of this season. I do think on some level, the payoff of Deborah saying, you know, there is no show without you, you are the show. It wouldn't have happened without my head writer, Ava Daniel. and doing it at such immense personal cost is a moment that this entire series has built to. Yes.

And I thought they nailed it. I really agree. I think this is like the most important thing for them to execute in a way that felt like really earned and really believable for us and the characters alike. And the great thing was like, if Deborah hadn't done this,

if when she sends Eva down to the red carpet at the Oscars, She's just really good. Running into Winnie, again, like the mounting tension, Deborah has gone to meet with Bob. He has insisted that Ava be fired. Plants that little seed of doubt, not only in our minds, but in Deborah's mind, you sure you can trust her?

Then we see Deborah go to meet with Jimmy, and he's like, I've got to talk to you about something. You know, there's the Deborah Jimmy moment of like, I don't think you had a choice. I know what I have to do, but I don't want to. We were so primed for the. the letdown, right? Winnie on the red carpet being like, by the way, tell Deborah,

fuck you, and she got me fired and like all of the things, all of the convergence and confluence of all of these reasons for us to just assume that Deborah would do this thing again. If she had, Eva would have correctly, and I think quite righteously said, of course you did this to me. I knew you were going to do this to me. I told you you were going to do this to me.

and I ultimately, like, put myself in a position for you to do this to me. So the fact that when Deborah actually chose Ava over the show, did the opening monologue in the post-Oskers live show and quit the show, very, I mean, Gene Smart icon legend always, but like watching Deborah well up. Yeah. And be moved to that point of emotion, talking about, like, how this was her dream. and then to see Ava, great season long bit about the security gate paying off there with Ava having to watch from that perch.

But Ava, what was her response? She was like, no, don't do this for me, you know? And that was so great. Oh, I'm going to cry. I know. It was like amazing. That was really unentened to run in and find her. And like, why did you do this?

Are you sure? When Deborah said on air, I've been asked to fire someone I love. love who did nothing wrong. Like, it was just beautiful. I agree with you completely. Everything is built to this. We also just had, you're a musical expert and I am not.

You've invoked some musicians already today. And this will be my, the only attempt I'm capable of making on this front when Jimmy, when Bob goes into the back, he's like, cut the feed, cut the feed, and Jimmy is wrestling him for the phone.

Very reminiscent to me of the sequence in a complete undone. when Bob Nourth is trying to stop Pete Seeger from going for the courts. Yeah, that was a... That's why they pay you the big bucks now. It's for these comparisons. I guess I'm saying Deborah Vance is comedy's Bob Dylan, and I'd challenge anyone to argue.

I think that's right. This was great. This was great. And also just the kind of like, there have been so many moments up to this where some sort of matter of integrity or soul or substance has like honestly really led Deborah to be. be like, fuck off to Ava. You know, that's been one of the really rich,

renewing resources of the show is the generation gap in the way that they genuinely do to see the world in a distinct way and, like, think about things differently. And so all of the Ethan Summer stuff, the way that that built toward Ava doing this thing because she believed it, but also with no foresight and, like, not thinking about the consequences at all. And then still, like, I loved the moment where Ava went then to find Lewis, on the contrary guy, he's shooting hoops. And I asked him to stop and she's just like, yeah, I said like integrity matter, but not.

Which is such a different thing to do. It was great. But then also the little aside at the end when she's going away and she's like, it's so annoying that when you do one show a week, you have time to do something like basketball. I haven't been to the grocery store in three months. That was great. I really enjoyed that. There was also just, I is going to talk about Jimmy and. A lot again, it's time.

Later, but there was just inside of, they'll come up in other categories, but inside of this episode, there was some of the most remarkable Jimmy and Kayla stuff we've ever gotten. Have to shout out, this is where in episode nine, we got the latest peak TV, streaming wars era mention of Ringer Podcasts, The Town. When Ava asked what Plubo was, Jimmy said, yeah, Pluto and Fubo merge, you got to keep up on this stuff. I told you to listen to the town.

Wonderful stuff again. catch up on the prestige TV podcast coverage of the studio if you haven't yet. What a huge spring. What a huge spring for Matt Bellany. It's really exciting. Unbelievable. Unbelievable stuff. Thriving.

All right, I'm going to ask you to pick your favorite of some of the Kayla and Jimmy stuff that happened in episode nine. Here are your choices. Okay. Jimmy at a serious planning meeting noting that Sally Field is not only interested in participating in celebrity strip poker, but has demanded to be topless. Looking good and feeling great. The Kayla Jimmy search for dance mom, which is just, honestly, I believe might be coming up

in two of my four picks for five or subsequent categories. Gator Tales. What is a gator tail? Go to one party, Jimmy. Possibly my favorite moment of the entire season. Just incredible stuff.

This is also the Boothet sequence. And then the once again, incredibly emotionally moving, touching sequence where Kayla picks Jimmy over her dad because she sweet Randy

reveals the name the cementing of the plaque that it is just Schaefer and Lusack because Jimmy ordered the sign without telling Kayla and knew it would mean

a lot to her so wonderful and then seeing Kayla charge in to defend Jimmy to Deborah and Ava including the line you would never

boof anything for anyone selfish When Kayla just calls Deborah earrings. Earrings was simply remarkable. I thought that Ava's reaction to Kayla saying, if this is how Independence strong women treat a nice guy, feminism has gone too far, was also a real highlight.

But Kayla finding Jimmy beaten to a pulp after getting tossed out of the building, apologizing to him for calling him a little bitch for almost for considering going to Latin. to your door and he's like, you don't need to apologize for things that I don't know about and you weren't going to do. This is great. Great.

Great. Can you possibly pick a favorite of those remarkable Jimmy Caleb moments from this one episode of television? I will, because podcasting, we're professionals here. I do have to say that they are all, they're all perfect. It's a master class. I don't have children, but I imagine this is what it feels like to be asked to pick a favorite child.

There was something about the moment when they find Dan. Dance Mom on Wisteria Lane. Incredible. And she thinks she's at Carrie Bradshaw's Brownstone. Yeah. It's famously New York. That's famously New York. It's great.

That I loved so much. I really, you know, I was skeptical if dance mom was going to go down as an addition and a subplot line that I thought worked. By the end, they really made dance mom happen. I completely agree. this is my runner-up for another category we have, which is favorite plotline of this chunk of the season. And I was frankly astonished by that because when Dance Mom entered our Hacks universe,

I frankly was like, what the fuck is happening? What's going on? Yeah. And I also frankly don't really believe that those dances would go that viral. Okay. See, this is interesting. You're thinking about this as an internet expert, and I'm thinking about this as somebody

who really just wants almost every single podcast. moment to go to Kayla. But Dance Mom gave us a lot of Kayla, and so that was a gift. Yeah, Dance Mom did give us a lot of Kayla. And ultimately, I guess I'm glad that it was Dance Mom who occupied the role of the Schaefer and Lusack client who entered the Deborah Vance comedic universe,

as opposed to the biting, the incredibly aggressive. If collie. Put a pin in that. I'm coming back to that. Okay. I am coming back to that. Just in case, dance bomb doesn't come up again today,

let's use this opportunity to share this Kayla gem from the old Navy revoking it. Endorsement deal stretch of episode seven where Kayla said, the stuff she was pinning was nuts on the Pinterest. Softcore BDSM, hardcore ASMR. It's remarkable. Me too. Remarkable. Great stuff. Great stuff.

Don't look up my Pinterest now. I wouldn't dream of it. That's your space. Anything else on episode nine before we move to our next category? I think I'm really glad that we've covered the Boothit sequence. And it just was perfect. It's important. Okay, our next category today is best seen.

When are you got here? Well, we have talked about it. I do think that the most important and the best executed scene of this season is Deborah after the Oscars at the live show standing up for Ava

and essentially professing her love. You know, that's, that's, that is her standing up there with a boombox and it was to me every bit as iconic. I love that. You're such a romantic. That's beautiful. I think mostly because I knew we would have already talked about that scene a lot.

I'm going in a different direction. I wanted to hit a different character set here. But also, you're leaning into romance and possibility, and I have lingered in a different emotional and mental space with my pick here. And it is, this was just like watching an actual conversation I've had with my mother rendered on screen. I will be selecting Ava's mom. arriving for a visit. Specifically the first scene at Ava's apartment in the Americana in episode 8, which of the week.

Jane Adams is Nina always a treat whenever we get a stretch in. There's every season we get a little bit of Ava and her mom. It's always great. Every single thing about this was perfect. The fact that Ava has no idea where her mom is and can't find her because her mom left her phone on airplane mood, first of all. Just so deeply relatable. My mom has done that a hundred times. So deep.

relatable. So it's like right down to the glimpse of like seeing that she was flying into Burbank where like this is, I'm like, this is just where my mom flies in and then I'm like, I can't find you, where are you? All of this. As someone who flew in and out of LAX last weekend, deeply jealous. Burbank is the single best LA life hack. There's nothing close. Burbank is a real treat. If you can fly into or out of Burbank, you must. You basically live in the cheesecake factory, exceptional iconic. I love. loved it. The moment when Nina opened Ava's fridge and we were treated to this exchange, are you eating enough soup? I'm not eating any soup. Soup is so beneficial. The thing is that soup is so beneficial. This is, most of the moments in this scene,

I was deeply rooted as I often am watching hacks at Ava perspective, but this time I was the mom. I love soup. I have soup all the time. And then here it is. This is where I was like, I am watching a scene from my own life. There's something I want to talk to you about. Okay. Is it quick? Because I got to go.

It is. Pause, beat. I'm worried that you're not going to have children. Wow. I'd love to hear your version of a long conversation. You're so focused on this demanding job of yours. I worry. You're going to get so busy.

You're going to forget. I'm going to forget to have a kid. I've had this exact exchange nearly word for word with my mother more times than I can possibly recount. This was just incredible. And then the offer to give Eva $10,000 to freeze her eggs plus covering the cost of storage. And the ensuing discussion about the lawsuit where Davis said, I thought you were being sued. Right? Yes, I was, but I was also a plaintiff.

My upline is longer than my downline. That's just such a vintage hacks line to me. where I'm like, who thinks of this? This is absolutely incredible. And then the absolute cherry on the Sunday of this is a moment from my life with my mother, who is wonderful and I love, the guilt trip about Ava having to leave to go to work. Are you leaving me? Oh, my God.

What am I supposed to do all day? And then Ava responding, I live in a mall go shopping. You have $22,000, apparently. The whole point of me coming here is to spend time with you. When my mom, who again is wonderful and might be listening to, this podcast comes to L.A. Hi, Mal's mom. She sometimes emails Joanna.

Wild. I'll like mention on a pod that I, like, am squinting and can't see and she'll email Joanna and say, can you encourage Mal to go to the eye doctor? Very normal. Very normal thing that happens and that she does. That's icon. When my mom comes to L.A., she expects that every single, there is an itinerary where every single moment is accounted for with an activity.

And I'm like, you have been to L.A. 60 times in your life. Go explore. So this one, this scene just hit hard, very memorable to me. I thought this was a great one. That's my pick. I particularly loved. Are you still waiting to meet Leonardo DiCaprio to have a child? She said the first part of the line and you're going, you're primed to expect the thing that comes

next to be, it's not going to happen. and you need to lower your standards. And then as Amy's mom is being kind of a pain in the ass, she still manages to be sort of beautiful and really supportive by then saying, I think there's something to that. You move in the same Hollywood circle. You move in the same circles. And then like 10 minutes later in the episode,

when she's at the show and sees the guy, the guy who's a part of the production, she's like, you have similar hair coloring. So are you interested in having children one day? Just unbelievable. stuff. This brings us to our next category. Favorite Plotline. I have already tipped for you that Dance Mom was a stunning contender

for me. Obviously, the actual picks here no question are everything with Eva and Deborah and the beautiful resolution there. That's obviously the most meaningful plotline of the season. Or anything that involves Jimmy and Kayla, but we have other categories where I will be getting to that. And so I went

in a place that I don't think you're going to support. Oh, wow. I used favorite plotline not to actually honor one of the important plot lines, but instead to spend just a moment on something that brought me more joy than I can possibly understand. And it is rabid lassie. It is rabid lassie. First of all, just if it had just been the initial scene, like that episode seven, I mean, we talked last episode about all of this, like, please write down your species, like if your dog or a human.

Everything was building toward this with Kayla's entrepreneurial spirit. If it had just been the scene in episode seven where Jimmy is on set and can't find Kayla and the PA who Kayla has been tormenting, brings Jimmy fancy sunscreen into coconut and then asks him if it's young enough and says, Schaefer gets upset when the coconut isn't young enough. And then last he had come over and bitten Jimmy, that would have been enough. But that's not all that happened. This becomes a through line of the second half of the second half of the. the season of hacks, Jimmy gets bitten.

Kayla's shouting, medic, fuck, I cannot believe this is happening again. Jimmy's saying, what do you mean again? And then Kayla revealing

that it's the third person last he is bitten. And then saying, by the way, her owners are anti-vaxed. You're going to need a lot of shots. Which leads toward a stretch where Jimmy's festering wound

means he has to, when he's having business meetings, say, so sorry about the smell. something in the building and then Clive on the couch across from saying, I thought you'd been eating kimchi before the doctor arrives to administer a rabies shot. But it all led to the most important thing, which is our shared love, Randy. In an episode nine string of updates for Jimmy about all the things that are going wrong saying,

like it was this single most important bit of news anybody had ever delivered to anyone. on anything. She bit again. She bit again. I just was like in tears. I was laughing so hard when we built toward the she bit again. So I just thought this was like inspired

and so bizarre. But I loved it. So that's my pick. What about you? Fabulous. Okay. First of all, I totally support this.

I absolutely support this. And mine is a little niche as well, although it is not rabid lassie who somehow I believe gave Jimmy ring war. That's correct. Yeah. Sure did.

Mayor Joe. Oh, yeah. Okay. Good pick. Mayor Joe. When last we spoke, I had slightly mixed feelings about the Mayor Joe cameo so far this season because I didn't totally get, this is again, sometimes Hax goes on location and I don't quite get why. The trip to Vegas was not to me one of the high points of the season, although within that, Agreed. Mayor Joe showing up to get Deborah out of a ticket was a high point of that.

Yes. So maybe mixed feelings at the midpoint. The second Mayor Joe subplot line, which is that she has been caught having sex with multiple hockey players on a Zamboni. Yes. And this has created a scandal that everybody is talking about. And Deborah has to figure out her way into because she won't make fun of a friend. Right. And then Ava pitches, why don't we have her on the show? Mm-hmm.

Bringing Mayor Joe, who at first is nervous, but then is an absolutely excellent guest and I think does a lot for her reputation to own the joke. Yes. which as Deborah brings up is like the old Nora Ephron line where if you slip on a banana peel, but if you tell the story, it's your joke, which Deborah believes in, even though Nora Ephron famously called her a bitch once.

That was such a great line. But I feel like I can steal it because she called me a bitchon. Incredible. You could make the argument that I'm really, really making a case for one line. But I do, I just found this whole thing really, really funny and sort of bizarre

and out of left field in a way that only hacks can do. Yeah. But truly the reason that I loved this whole little detour was for one line. Yeah. And that was the Jimmy's railed me. My second gangpang of the week. Just remarkable stuff.

It's absolutely remarkable stuff. That was great. And I think in many television shows when there's six pairs of hands, you stop looking for wedding rings, takes the cake, but not X. That was just a warm-up. Not hacks.

Not X. I love when they acknowledge the other late-night hosts. Yeah. And so that part of it already has something that I love, but that just, it's just a great. It's just a great line. Fantastic pick. It's just an absolutely fantastic pick. And it's, I think, a great transition into our next category, which is funniest,

one-liner. We were both just downright and capable. of actually picking one thing here last time. I assume that will be the case today. So why don't you run me through your three to 25 contenders, however many you have today. So really, I mean, I actually do have one here. Oh, wow.

I struggled with this more than last time, actually, to pick, to narrow it down. To be clear, that doesn't, that doesn't mean that I only wrote down one thing here, but there was, just when I was sort of cataloging and going back. Yeah. Mark Wahlberg still says. sends me a rosary every year as a threat. I felt, I felt cosmically pulled to that joke. It was incredible.

It was genuinely incredible. We did, we, we talked, I think, in the context of the Clooney thing that was sort of similar at midseason about the way that they are capable of writing these little lines that have a whole world behind them. And I just, I thought the whole thing about Deborah having beef with the Catholic church was really, really funny. but that that light in particular was my favorite. Yeah, I agree.

I thought when that started the history of the church coming after, Deborah, I wasn't sure it was going to totally pan out, but it was quite entertaining across the entire episode. I love that. That's a great pick. Also, randomly, I'm not going to say good timing, but sort of strange timing because of the Pope. Yeah, I know, I know, but real rips from the headlines.

And then the other one that just, I, The dance mom delivery of, and we've been texting, when she reveals that she is paying $25,000 a week to rent. A week. That scene was so funny. You know, buzz ball? Like white or green? Guess I'll take green?

That's like, if you know, if you have lodged in your brain as I do, the way that Adam Levine texts, at least as his public knowledge, as related to women that he might have texted with at one point. Right. It adds an extra dimension to the scene. It really adds a layer to that. Okay. Here are some of my contenders.

This is like the short list, and maybe I'll pick a favorite at the end. I'm going to hit some highlights here. We'll figure it out together. Episode 7, Seth Rogan during Celebrity Strip Poker. My boxer shorts are from Kirkland. circumcision is from Rabbi Bregman was historic. That absolutely killed me. Just tremendous. That's really good. The other celebrity strip poker as their little bit, it was really funny to me. And in the same way as thank you to Nancy Pelosi and Glorilla will always be special to me,

just something about the combination of Kaya Gerber and Seth Rogen for Celebrity Strip Poker really worked. genius absolutely inspired i loved it dj and ava share the following exchange uh when their twin eva and debor meeting a j and deborah has gone to steam the bonnet i believe beautiful baby hot husband thriving career women can have it all bitches need to stop complaining and then ava responds with totally look as a single childless woman who lives in a mall as a single childless woman who lives in a mall i agree is just that was so funny i'm not as i you have done the lord's work and catching me up on the americana and it's lore yeah and i do believe that that was a sub character that did amazing work was the americana itself i quite agree i quite agree i hope that that continues maybe a lot of change awaits

in season five but hopefully not even living at the mallers yeah uh i always like when we get little insights into DJ Deborah backstory. And so Deborah saying, no, thy enemy, that's from the Bible. And DJ responding, no, that's from the art of war, which I know because she made it, made me read it when I was in fourth grade. Very strong. Very strong indeed.

You already, I had the Mayor Joe lines that you already, that you already hit. Let's see, what else is in the mix here? You know what I liked in episode eight when Kail and Jimmy were, after Clive reveals that he's cancer-free and they'll will be leaving their firm to go to Kayla's dad at latitude. And Jimmy is catching Kayla up on this. And she shouts, we saved his life. And Jimmy says that was the oncology department in Cedars.

Just sensational. Wonderful stuff. We already talked about. He's tied to reality in a way that I think of science. He's anchored and rooted in a way that is necessary. Necessary in the show. We already talked about what I think is actually my pick for this category, which is Gator Tales.

What does a Gator Tail go to one party, Jimmy? Like, go to one party, Jimmy just abs. I just could not have loved it more. Wonderful stuff. I enjoyed Ava saying in episode nine on the Ethan Summers censorship front, let me know if there's any other sex criminals' reputations. You need me to help launder. Fantastic stuff.

This was one where I wish they hadn't tipped it in the next week on, in the preview for the finale that we got in the end of episode nine. But I thought that it was Safina greeting Ava at the door. And do I look like a fun, flirty vacation girl leading to, you look like Ace Ventura Pet Detective. Both are sexually viable. It's actually viable. Really good.

And we already talked about Ava loading up on her pharmaceuticals ahead of the flight to not Hawaii after all. Not Hawaii. Was worth it for this line alone. When she offers Deborah some pills, Deborah passes. And Ava says, smart. Benzo use is highly correlated to dementia. But that's a tomorrow problem. Oh, and then we have to shout this out because you were very, you were very focused on Ava's shorts in our midseason pod.

And so I felt I was thinking of you most of all when we got a callback when Deborah, continued acknowledgement, really, when Debra said, what do you do while we're here? This was in their fight, like their mini breakup in the finale. What do you do while you're here except follow me around with your empty little notebook and your big shorts? Something that has been a talking point recently on We're obsessed is the call. concept of bisexual jorts, which was in a page six headline, I believe. And so that was really, really top of mind to me in that line. And the spirit of that line had a lot of relevance to me. So I think that's a wonderful choice. The other one that I'm now thinking of that I think we would be remiss, not to mention, comes from our dear Randy, who is off the phone with Jimmy on a bus.

Yeah. I'm on the bus. I like to mentally map out a city. That's great. Randy's the best. Randy is really special. Ranji is really special edition. I mean, like, this season had so,

there was so much that happened. Yeah. And at times, I felt like if maybe a few of those things had been pared down. But I do think that there was so much that happened. there's a real beauty to like when they are just throwing all of this stuff up against the wall, quite a bit of it really sticks. Yeah. And if it's that ethos that brought us Randy on the bus, then that's really special to me.

And I can't fault it for a second. I quite agree. I'm just sitting here still waiting for the Schaefer and Lusack spin off. That brings us to our final category of the day, which is once again, favorite duo. And I have once again picked Jimmy and Kayla, have you? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. This is, we can rename the category.

If we're back to pod about hacks in season five, let's just assume that favor to it is just an opportunity and an excuse, not that we need one to talk about Jimmy and Kayla. We've hit a lot of the highlights already. What that we have not gotten to, do you want to shine a spotlight on here? I mean, I first want to just second. If Schaefer and Lusack does not become its own spinoff, that's going to be our spin.

We're just going to do Schaefer and Lusack Corner. We're going to check in on what's going on with the squad. I loved this season. You mentioned, I'm so glad that it's been renewed for season five and that we will get more hacks. You said that there had been some, you know, stuff percolating about, is there going to be more hacks? What's the future of hacks? And it has always landed strangely with me because I think that this is a special show. There's nothing like hacks other than hacks.

And while I think that they do have this, I don't know if I want to say it's a problem, but a hurdle in terms of how do you, if you're choosing to write this core relationship as this, will they, won't they really be there for each other? There is only so much that you can do. Otherwise, it's just, it's punching us in the face. and then bringing us back to life over and over again with,

are they going to be so hurtful to each other and then they're going to make up? Yeah. But I do, I do just think that there is still a lot that they can do if they put them, especially within the context of making comedy together. Because if we've learned nothing else, I mean, this was just a really pro-thruple season of television. Boy, was it. It really was. I mean, Mayor Joe, I don't know if I, I guess, six-hand.

So Mayor Joe, our girl, Ava, and I do believe Ava, Debra, and comedy are the Thruple of season four of us. Are Jimmy, Kayla, and Randy a thruple? Are we officially there? Have we gotten enough time with Randy to graduate this from a duo to a thruple? It's something for us to think about between seasons. Here, when in episode nine, walking away from the burning wreckage of the late night show that they had left behind, it's going to be. it's going to be Schaefer and Lusack for life, Kayla said. We're going to die together.

To which Jimmy responded, I don't doubt that. This is for life, man. This is for life. And so all we can hope is that Randy is with them for life as well, you know? That would be a treat. That would be a gift. On the like comedy is a key part of their relationship, as their religion, is their belief network, all of it front.

I would be remiss to not shout out a subtle, but I think very special and also important, like as a tether to the ethos of the worldview and mission of the show front on the last he said. I will be returning to the last he set once more. I'm sorry, I'm not. When Jimmy was bitching about all of the stressors and he's so cranky and Kayla just says, some people are doctors. Have fun. Like, yeah. Right. That's right. That's right. That's exactly right. Did you enjoy when Kayla snuck into Jimmy's house? And she was like, we share a cleaning lady once. Of course I had a key in.

Great stuff. I also really enjoyed the soap opera digest conversation when Kayla's like, did you stand up for yourself? No, they're busy. It's fine. You were the last to know. This is like when you found out your parents were getting divorced from soap opera digest, which then led to a story about going to Gelson's for cheese for his lunch before school, another very L.A. story.

So that was just great stuff, man. I mean, I do think the one thing that we didn't mention is, is Jimmy really growing in his ability to go full gorilla. That's right. Kayla's only gone half gorilla up to this point, and Jimmy does go full gorilla, does his Bob Dylan thing. And it's really magical to see. It's another, it's like a mirror, right? You know, we've got, we've got Deborah and Ava working toward each other, and Kayla and Jimmy, too.

Everybody's teaching each other a lesson. Sometimes you lead with love and sometimes you don't. Kayla learned a little bit from Jimmy and he learned a little bit from her, and isn't that beautiful. Sometimes you give up a Malibu house with its own jet ski. Comes with the house. Comes with the house. Real uptick in perks from corner office to Malibu Beach House.

Wow. Great stuff. All right, Nora. Any other closing thoughts before we conclude today? I mean, you have heard my both wishcasting and guessing as to where season five might go. Is there anything that you're dying to see them hit, Mel? So this is not, I'm not dying to see this necessarily, but that is, that does remind me, we got that sequence of the implosion of the Tropicana in Vegas and Marius and Marys. Marcus watching with...

Yeah. And that felt like clearly there to tease because there's a discussion, Marcus's partner, his mom, or partner, like, the soul of Vegas having shifted, right, that we've gone from gritty, dirty Vegas with an identity and a sense of self to like corporate Vegas and everything is sterile and cookie cutter in the same. And that looking at Marcus's eye really close in the season to Deborah visiting Marcus at his new job and it was like, don't you miss the conniving? Don't you miss the, you know, and he's just like,

well, yeah, but like this is profitable. Seems clear that we're going to get some sort of like, they're launching their own boutique hotel slash casino slash live event space plotline in season five. Is Marcus going to challenge Mayor Joe in the next election? I mean, I'm just going to be frank. With love and respect for Mayor Joe, I would be voting for Marcus. Seems much more equipped to handle public office.

Seems actually like incredibly organized and responsible and with a mind for growth and business and efficiency. Yeah. Mayor Joe just vibes. Marcus either opening a hotel or running for office or maybe both, Damien hopefully treating his ulcer. Don't tell Deborah. It's like, no, I haven't taken care of it yet. Don't tell Deborah. And I really, I'm...

Especially given the amount of barrier and he's been exposed to over the course of this season, I really. I really hope he sees a dog turn. Me too. Me too. I did enjoy when they were like, I'd get, you know, these caftans. We weren't sure. They'd seen a light a day. That was great.

The root of what you have identified has worked its way into my mind. I think what you're citing about building toward a moment where Deborah is like, it's your turn, Ava, and I'm here to help you. I agree. I think that's where this is probably ultimately heading. I don't know if season five still feels too soon for that. I wonder if like, I wonder if. the golden trio driving the

the hacks creative machine has an X number of seasons and this is like the dream but we could do it in this many like how they're approaching structuring their story how much they feel like they have to do each season versus like having the

comfort to wait on but yeah I'm interested to see what the next evolution in that relationship is and I do hope that we get more not just thematic throuples but actual throuples I mean we don't need to limit it to three either.

That's right. Exactly. Hax has told us loud and clear the more the merrier. I do. Yeah, I guess I think that I felt like it was building that way just because of Deborah's non-compete. Yeah. And because it does feel true to me that that's not, that the role reversal and who gets

the spotlight is maybe not something that even in this moment when she has sacrificed so much for Eva and professed her love, that Deborah would be willing to take off. just because she thinks it's time and Eva has earned it. Yeah. But when structurally prevented from taking the stage herself, literally no other choice. I can see it. I can see it being possible.

I'll be curious to see if we pick up inside of that 18th, 18 month window still. Yeah. Or out of it. That'll be fascinating to see. So, okay. Well, I look forward to season five. I look forward to reconvening with you to talk about all of the amazing things that we got to see Randy, see and say and do.

Shout out to Randy. Yeah, thank you. It's time for thank you. Thank you to Randy, most of all, obviously. Thank you to you. Thank you to Kai Grady and Justin Sales for their work on this episode. We will see you for season five, whatever that might be. In the meantime, go to one party.