The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Industry’ Season 3, Episodes 4 and 5: Two Plus Two Equals F*cked

Episode Date: September 10, 2024

Charles and Jodi go all in to recap the fourth and fifth episodes of ‘Industry’ Season 3. They discuss how they’re feeling with the season at the halfway point, why the Rishi-focused standalone episode was so effective, and how the multiple storylines from opposite ends of the show are weaving together (3:20). Next, they unpack Yasmin and Rob’s complicated relationship and the latter’s ayahuasca-induced trip (14:01). Along the way, they talk about how Sweetpea is the sneaky MVP of the season (34:35). Finally, they react to Yas’s big reveal and whether or not the twist was a step too far for the character (46:39). Hosts: Charles Holmes and Jodi Walker Producer: Kai Grady Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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we're known as the Pierpoint Pals, and we're back to discuss some urine, bloody noses, and the demonic force known as Rishi. Jody, how are you feeling? Is the inner Rishi in you? Is the inner Rishi in you just raging today? I think the inner Venetia in me is raging. That's who I took as the real hero of that episode. It was a real, you know, we're

talking about episodes four and five two very different episodes, but both really intimate looks at these characters. And no, I don't just mean the peeing and the cocaine nosebleeds on babies while also peeing

while watching your co-workers-only fans page. So real intimate look. You know, the thing about this show is that it is so relatable. And that's really why I keep tuning back in. It's just like looking in a mirror. That's what everybody tells me at the Spotify office. They're like, yo, we're having

an HR meeting. And it's about Jody and her off-color remarks. And Jody is the main character and everyone is open to offer commentary. It's true. Yeah, people are always, I am every day living my uncut gems version of my life. If you could just get a live camera on this, it's a lot like Rishi. Well, before we get into the episode, I'm going to give a little background because, as you said, we're talking about episode four and five, white mischief, company man, white mischief, directed by Zoe Widdock, written by Mickey and Conrad.

This is our Rishi dominated episode. We find out that Rishi is nursing a debilitating gambling addiction. He's in massive debt. His loan shark needs his money now. And the irresponsible position on Sterling that he has as part of the job at Pierpoint is about to implode. And then Encompanied Man, directed by Isabella Ecloth and written by Mickey and Conrad, Pierpoint sends Rob to the slaughter to face a committee investigating the government's bailout of Loomy. Meanwhile, sweet peer reveals to Eric that Pierpont's ESG pivot lines up pretty well with a bunch of debt that they have coming to maturity, which no one in the market wants to buy

and will undoubtedly lead to the firm having to name a new CEO and fire many of the people at the company. Yaz breaks up with Henry once it's revealed at the committee hearing that he's taken advantage of his female co-workers and buy episodes. And Yaz shares with Rob that

she killed her father. So where I want to start with you, Jody, is let's just give a temp check halfway through the season, how are you feeling? These two episodes together, I'm like, these are a lot and a lot is happening

and in a lot of ways I'm like, especially with episode five, like, this feels like a penultimate episode. This, like, we still have more to go. What's happening? Yeah, I think that the showrunner said something like that. Like, every episode of this season could be the finale,

but it really is more like every episode could be the penultimate, which everyone knows is better than the finale. these episodes are insane. I liked, you know, I think there were sort of mixed opinions on how people felt in like truly at the middle of the season mark taking.

It's hard to call it a pause on the Rishi episode though. Obviously, it is a character study. Like, it is a sort of derailment of the plots that we've been focusing on. We are mostly just looking at Rishi, someone who we don't usually get a very intimate look at.

He is the joke teller. He is offering, you know, color commentary around veal cock, et cetera, and that makes us laugh. But I really, I really liked it. I liked this sort of pause in the narrative

to look at someone who we don't know a lot about as like a more intimate look at how some of these or one of these people lives their lives and what it costs. costs, what they're spending their money on, what they're learning, what do they love, who do they hurt? And you can, even though this episode focuses on Rishi, you can really apply it to any of these characters that we know more. And it really made me think about, like, what are these people

spending their money on? Like, Rishi bought a country estate. Rob bought a house. Yaz is trying to keep her head above water and, like, maybe doesn't even have access to the money that she's earning. And, you know, Harper, who we really are taking a pause on right now, seemingly has no real interest in the money that she's earning. It's everything else around it that she wants. Harper is like Jaws in these two episodes where she's kind of lurking, and you're like, Harper is around the corner. I don't want to know what she's up to, but when she shows up,

she's about to kill someone. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And everybody's looking for her. You know, they don't want to find her, but they're looking for her. And so I love that about the Rishi episode is that like it did make me take into context what the narrative, what these plot points of these insane episodes, these insane fast-paced episodes that we watch, what it all means, like what it means to these people. And industry does a lot of show, don't tell.

Like I still don't know for sure what these people do with their lives outside of work and outside of harming themselves and others. but I can kind of draw some conclusions from what we see with Rishi, who is obviously living on the most extreme edge. And it's absolutely absurd for me to even call that episode a break because it was extremely anxiety-inducing and extremely fast-paced. I think he won and lost more money than I'll make in a lifetime in that one-hour episode. I felt like episode five really felt like a kind of a character study of Rob and Yaz's

and what they're up against as like, People who are maybe still sort of redeemable, you know? Like, it feels like the end of that is like, Rishi's gone, man, we lost him. But, like, maybe these two people can love each other enough to, like, remember and hold on to their humanity. Jury's still out, literally. I couldn't agree more. I think the Rishi episode, White Mischief, is one of my favorite episodes. I know it's one of my favorite episodes of the year and probably one of my favorite of industry in general.

But I think these two episodes together are so interesting because now I can, now I can kind of wrap my arms around what industry is this season and maybe what Mickey and Conrad are interested in doing for the rest of the series, which is like for the Rishi episode, you kind of realize that Rishi, what Rishi believes is actually kind of the truth, which is heartbreaking, which is the only thing that matters within the walls of Pyrpoint is how much money I'm making. And you have these forces, these younger traders coming in. And now these older traders who are living in this world of, you can't just say whatever you want on the floor anymore. Rishi, this has gone too far. You've crossed, you've crossed the boundary, the hilarious HR

meeting. And it's funny because, like, Rishi is like, to him, his worldview has been so calcified where he's like, what are you talking about? As long as I'm making money, none of this matters. I can be the worst version of myself. And like the whole, the whole episode, you're trying to be like, that can't be true. That can't be true. By the end of the episode when everybody's like, oh my God, he's just made $18 million. You see everyone who was about to crucify Ritchie being like, well, he's the man now. We just forgot about all that or it's no longer important. And then in company man, it shows the flip side of that where it's like Rob, you see Rob being crucified. Pierpoint sends him out to the slaughter.

They're just like, we don't need you anymore. And Rob is kind of the last one to realize it. And then by the end of the episode, because he doesn't sell out, yes, he doesn't sell out Henry. He's the whipping boy. There's this extended part of the episode where Rob gets to see the behind machinations of English government, of power, of class. And it's the other thing where it's like if in Pierpoint, the only thing that matters is how much. money you are making outside this world. It's like money has money means nothing. This government bailout for Henry means nothing. He will be fine. The woman I'm forgetting her name

who's the politician. Aurora, maybe the scariest player in all of this. For her, she's just like this is, I'm about to be the prime minister in a couple years. This means nothing. And it's like this interesting dichotomy in industry where it's just like money means something up to a point. But unless you are a white man in this world, it's like, what are you talking about money? We have the power. We have the levers. We have the government.

We have all these banks. We have all these firms. And like seeing the point where they're like, Rob, we're inviting you into this circle. And seeing Rob being like, once he takes the drink of ayahuasca, I'm like, this is not a very subtle kind of representation of, are you drinking the Kool-Aid, Rob?

But I like, so to you, you were saying, like, maybe people had some issues with the pause that the narrative took. I didn't feel that this was a pause at all. This almost felt to me being like, oh, no, this is our mission statement for industry going forward. We are showing you everything that we think about race, class, money, and power within this show, which I thought was amazing. Yeah, it was like a Rosetta Stone for industry. It kind of, like, tells you how to take on the remaining episodes, the episodes that came before it.

You know, I don't know if people, yeah, no, I did see some of that, that it felt like a pause or that they would have liked that kind of character study on someone else, a character we've followed more closely. But, like, I feel like we've been doing that,

you know, like all of season one was this for Harper, Harper living her constant, uncut Jim's life, like, that she can solely manage. The thing that I think, like, this season keeps coming back to is, yeah, like in this world, money is all that matters. But we're going to lead

with ethics and we're going to talk about ethics. And we're going to like, and in, and ethics do matter. You know, Henry seems to convince himself that ethics matter. We see Eric convince himself of these things. It only matters until it crosses paths with money and power. And then money and power always win for a certain type of person. But I do think we are, you know, know, like Rob is still fighting that fight. Rob is in that room horrified at what he's seeing and wondering how he's going to navigate it. Justapose that with Harper being in that room two episodes ago, she meets these exact same, you know, uncles of Henry and they say they'll give her $200 million.

And she says, yes, please. I'm so curious. Like, time is passing as ever in a strange way. It seems that in between episodes three and five, I am very unclear on how much time has passed. Yasmin and Henry have gotten into a very serious relationship where they are maybe falling in love and definitely peeing on each other.

And Harper was... What's the difference? What is the difference? That is the true question that industry is asking. What's the... Let me ask you this. what's the difference in vulnerability and talking about vulnerability?

Because Henry is a real fuckboy in the way that he's going to tell you how vulnerable he is being to you in lieu of actually being vulnerable to you. I do think one of my favorite parts of this duo of episodes is when, like, Rob almost kind of lets the mask off and is just, like, reveal.

He's just like, he has no more time really for Yaz's bullshit where he's just like, yeah, that's your type, yes. It's like, you're trying to date your dad. And I'm just like, Rob, can you have a little thing? It's like, you cannot tell someone that they're peeing on their dad, Rob. You've gone, the ayahuasca has hit too hard, but you can. And Yaz needs to hear it.

And I, I honestly was very touched by the friendship that was, and worried, by the friendship that was happening between Yaz and Rob and, like, the true care that they were showing for one enough. they've come a long way since season one and it also makes me wonder about like where Harper is in all of this because they are presumably all living in the same house

but I don't think she's developing these intimacy and vulnerability bridges like her other friends are. Since we already opened this box, Yaz pretty much and I didn't know how to read the scene after Yaz goes

to kind of this like back door party after the committee where Rob is, Henry Muck, the uncles, people in government, everyone. She's essentially like, I'm breaking up with Henry because it's revealed that he was having inappropriate relationships with various women at Wumee. And she runs out of the flat. And then Rob goes after her,

and I was wondering during this conversation, is she revealing that she finally does have deeper feelings from Rob? or is this just a moment where she realizes Rob is actually the only man in her orbit or in her world who actually did the thing that she's wanted, which is stand up for her.

He has the moment to throw Henry under the bus, throw Gaz under the bus. Like, Yaz just had sex in the previous episode or two episodes ago, in the private plane in front of her employers. And Rob decides not to do it. He decides not to throw Henry under the bus or Yaz.

And I was just like, I could not really figure out if Yaz actually has feelings for Rob. Well, I definitely think she has feelings for Rob. You know, I think that she is, she is moved by him. She is touched by his actions. The way that that came across to me

out there on that sidewalk where she says, basically, like, can't you just be in love with me? Like, wouldn't that? I think what she feels is like, wouldn't this be easiest? If we just love.

loved each other in the way that we deserve to be loved as humans. But what they're both working through is that they're very hurt people. And it is hard to love someone when you fear that you could hurt them. I think, like, what Yasmin has always felt about Rob is that she would obliterate him. Like, she would not treat him well. And he is really working. to be someone who deserves to be treated well. What Rob can never understand is that, like, everyone deserves to be treated well.

He doesn't have to earn it. He doesn't have to, you know, like, say yes to Mommy to be loved. It is hard for him to accept love. And I think, like, all those things are going through their heads out there on that sidewalk is they do love each other. I think they love each other more really than they're. able to love anyone else, and the conflict is like can or should that be romantic when all of their experiences are that like true love, romantic love and familial love, does nothing but harm.

And that's hard to dive into. No, I mean, that's interesting because both of them are also having parent issues, I would say. Oh, yeah. I'd call them. I think issues is probably the right word, yeah. When Rob takes the ayahuasca, he is having visions of Nicole. pole peeing, which I don't want to get into what the symbolic or metaphorical nature of that is. He's seeing a screen, which I believe is showing him a video of his mother.

And then to contrast that with Gazz's whole thing throughout this season, which is like, did she kill her father? Did she not? What happened? Why does she keep falling in love with men who are like her father? There's even that scene where Eric in one of the, like, I was like, I was getting second an embarrassment for Yasmin's like, I don't think of you as one of my daughters.

I'm like, this season could not be more clear about how they feel about what parents pass down to their children and how that comes up in the world of just

finance, job, and life. And I think it's very, very funny that the two characters with the most parental issues just cannot love each other to your point. They cannot figure it out. Yeah.

I mean, it's what, you know, the Rishi episode is completely wild, but it has some real banger lines in it, including it's much easier to raise strong boys than to fix broken men. And I think, you know, that can be applied to every gender. In this case, it is, you know, Rishi staring at his son, who he opened the episode having a cocaine nosebleed on. While watching and only fans of his much younger co-worker, who which revealed he also slept with.

What does Adler say to Eric about when he used to encounter, you know, young women in his work and want his daughters to be... It's a come joke. He makes a cum joke, like, and now you want to come on those young women. There's not, yeah, there's nothing subtle about... industry, including this line that I think is great, it's much easier to raise strong boys than to fix broken men. Like, oh, yeah, if only it was so simple as that.

I think we're also seeing, you know, there are kind of obvious monsters like Yasmin's dad. But there's also, well, I guess it's applicable. There's also Rishi who... He does not seem like he's going to be the best dad. No, but you see him caring about his son. And how fucking dare he tell his wife not to drink because she is breastfeeding or question if she is smoking a cigarette when he is out there nearly getting beaten to death, not even because of his debilitating gambling problem, but because he was cheating on his wife with a, you know, a random woman in a club whose boyfriend saw him. Also, that was the saddest scene of all time.

Rishi, going to a club. club alone. I was just like, this man has no friends, no loved ones. He's just, but to your point, I think,

and this is why I think the Rishi episode is so important, is that they have that great scene during the HR, during the HR meeting where someone, I think it, I think it might be sweet,

be like, have you always been this way? Like, they're like, they're like, when did this happen? When did you get broken? And I think it is like,

even with Adler and, um, and Eric, you do realize like, oh, all of these men at certain points were on the same journey

that Harper, Rob, and Yazar and it is this cycle of to be successful in this world, to be successful around these people who have this much money, to have that thing in you that wants to chase that dragon of capitalism

and making as much money as possible, you're not going to come out the other side, human. You are going to come out of the other side ugly and broken. And this season, I think, has done the best job of any of the seasons, really showing that not only,

there's no heroes or villains in industry. Everybody is basically operating on this moral level of, I will do anything to survive. And when push comes to shove, nine times out of 10, I'm going to kill you before you can kill me. And it's like interesting seeing when,

going back to Rob and Yaz, I was like, Rob, why are you still in this room? Gaz has left. you don't like being in this room. Like he goes back. He's snorting coke. He's doing ayahuasca. And I'm like, oh, Rob realizes, and I don't know if this is true, there's nowhere else for him to go.

Pierpoint left him out high and dry. He now knows that to Eric. He's expendable. So it's like, what should I do? Should I hitch my wagon to a company that already tried to kill me once? Or do I hitch my ride to Henry, who seems like, as long as you don't fuck me, I'm going to let you keep being in these rooms. Like, he's fucked whichever way he goes,

but I thought it was interesting that, like, Rob even can't just be the good guy anymore. He's starting to, like, curdle and realize that I have to protect myself. I actually think Rob's as closest to being the good guy as he's ever been. I think he is, like, the one person that we see give. He does go back, yeah, and he goes on the ayahuasca trip. And we don't know what the rest of the season, holds for him, but I feel that he is getting in touch with his humanity, his true core.

Like, not what Oxford told him to believe, not what growing up feeling like the underdog and wanting to get out of that situation made him believe. I do really feel like he's trying to get in touch with something inside of him that is not completely external. motivated. And like you talked about, you know, these people going into like full survivalist mode, I'll do whatever it takes. And when you paint the world in these black and white strokes of money power ethics and in the end you can only choose one, then yeah, you paint yourself into a corner that you can't get out of, that you can only claw your way out of and you lose your humanity in that way, and you can't win. And so, like, I do think that Rob going back to that room,

going back to Henry, is this feeling of you can't win, so you might as well go back. Because, like, you look at that conversation between Eric and Adler at Adler's house. In episode five, Eric literally tells Rob to be a company man. Yeah. And he talks about himself being a company man. Yeah. And he talks about himself being a company. company man while he is dressed like a clown. He's not dressed like a clown. He's dressed like a king who cuts women's heads off. But like he looks so clownish. He looks so ridiculous when he is like, I'm a company man, you be a company man too. And it's like, Eric, who's winning here? When Adler reveals he has an inoperable brain cancer. He has a brain tumor. Like, yeah, he's got brain

cancer. We're lifers. And I'm just like, this is the saddest thing I've ever seen. When he says we're lifers, I'm like, so your whole life was chasing a big bag of money. And then instead of going off and doing anything else, once you realize you are about to die, you're basically talking to Eric about how you can keep your job at this company. It's, but the reason why I think there's no, I do agree with you. I think Rob is the closest to finding. some self-actualization or finding something within himself that is not just the muck, no pun intended of this world. But then I think like this season has done like a very good job of showing us all of our

main characters having those moments of realization, having those moments of humanity, where it's like Rishi does have a moment of humanity with his wife where I do think he realizes that this woman loves him. she knows him almost better than anyone else and still when he's going down on her he turns into the jock once again like he just can't help himself

he's just like I'm going to be the words version of myself same thing with Eric Eric has multiple moments with Yaz where you're like there's a father in here there's someone with a heart in here and he can never just be that he is always going to make sure that he wins over Yaz

or Rob, like there's all these little, even Harper, Harper has multiple moments where she could just be a friend to Yas. She could just be her best friend. And at every given chance, she's just like, but I could also use this friendship to make money. Right. Is there, I don't think there's a way to get out of that cycle. There is a way to get out of that cycle.

And I think that's what the show is saying over and over, is that these are people who convince themselves that they're surviving, that they are playing the game, that this is the only way. But what we are watching as an audience with our eyeballs is that they are making choice after choice to stay in this game. These are choices. Even for Rob, it is a choice to go back in that room. It is a choice to go on an ayahuasca trip with Henry, whatever that means, morally speaking. Like, they are convincing themselves that they're survivalist, but none of this is real.

Money isn't real. Banking isn't real. You are not stuck in this cycle. We see that with a character who we know a lot less, but has the only winning moment of the season in Venetia. When she, you know, fucks over Rishi, turns him into HR, turns in her resignation, and says that she's bored working for the dictatorship of dying men. And like, yeah, maybe she'll go work at a nonprofit.

Maybe she won't make a lot of money. Who knows where she'll go? Did she win, though? Because morally, morally, I was like, go, girl. stick it to fucking Rishi. But then I was just like, oh, she's wasted years upon years of her life doing this just for the reality to set in that

not just for peer point, but for the world, as long as Rishi keeps making money, he will be fine. And it's something that I think I've realized in my working world, where it's just like, I remember the Me Too movement or Black Lives Matter

and this moment where like companies are like, we need to be morally right and better and stop treating people like garbage and absolute shit. And the minute that the economy turned and these companies started losing money, they're like, actually, we don't really need to keep hiring more people of color. And actually all of these things that we instituted

to make sure that women are safe, we're just going to fire all those people. Why do we do that? We're here to make money. And I do think that it's like, that's the thing where I'm always like, is there's not really a happy ending necessarily for most of these characters

because they are living in a reality that is fucked that is destroying them but Rishi, I did leave that episode being like, Rishi's going to destroy his life, but he's not wrong. At the end of the episode, the only thing that can save him is being good enough at his job and making enough money where Eric does the thing

where he's like, hey, security, get out of here. He just made us $18 million. We can't let him leave right now. And I'm just like, that's the thing that's like, it almost hurts to watch about industry, where it's like you see it in your own life where you're like, no, usually the person who makes the firm the most money is going to be protected, no matter how many young women, people of color, have to be sacrificed on the pyre. Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, and that's like, that's a battle that we see Rishi fighting

throughout that whole episode, you know, like left and right, he is facing racism and classism from the people around him. He can buy a whole fucking country estate, but he still can't tear down the, you know, cricket building that he owns because like, you know, some classist old money assholes who have no liquid money, which, to be fair, Rishi doesn't actually either, but he talks about them being, you know, all assets, no liquid. And he is rejecting that premise by making enough. money to buy the estate and to buy into a lifestyle, but he's also buying into it by buying the estate

and becoming all assets no liquid. Like, yes, in that way, I do believe that, yeah, nobody wins in a reality that is broken. Like, nobody wins in a system that is broken, but we do have to hold on to the reality that we make our own choices and we buy into those systems. And you don't have to work in banking. But all systems are broken. You know, it's like, it's not any, it's not any better to work in media, but, like, there's a whole show about it succession. But, like, it's still, but there's still choices and you are not a prisoner or a victim to the world that is around you. You buy into it that the, to the extent that you do. And so, like, I don't really see Venetia as winning because she,

I see her as winning because she is facing the actual reality of her life, which is that she is living under a dictatorship of dying men. And she's, you know, exiting. She's like choosing not to be a part of that. She might not like what she finds on the other side either. But like if I'm looking at Rishi's life and what I assume is Venetia's life, I choose Venetia. I can't handle the Rishi.

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that Rishi is a good man, which I think a lesser show would have tried to do. Where I'm like, no, Rishi is still a piece of shit. And this episode is trying to reveal what has happened to him. him and what is currently happening to him and what a place like Pierpoint or investment banking does to someone. And I think in a similar way to your point where it's like, I think Rob is trying to get where Venetia's at. Rob is trying to figure out. Because by the end of the episode, I'm like, this is almost sad with Rishi where I'm like, you don't have any liquid money. You essentially

have to go back to your wife. And he's basically laughing that she's made money. app as a podcaster, which I chuckled. Amazing. And the only thing that he can control is destroying this cricket pavilion and being like, well, I own this now. And I'm just like, so your big catharsis, Rishi, is basically destroying this thing just to build another thing. And none of these people who own these estates is ever going to like you.

And it's just, to me, I'm like, to your point, Benisha does win in that way where I think she's just like, I can walk away. Because a lot of this season, even the stuff that Eric has been saying on the floor is money's not real. What we do is not real. The markets are not real. We, like, there are levers to push. None of this. And I think we learned that with Henry Muck and his friends in the government. We're like, none of this is real. The laws, none of us have to, are ever going to be punished for this. There's not really going to be a criminal investigation. And to your point, with Venetia, I'm like, it kind of feels like she realizes that.

It kind of feels like she's like, if nothing makes sense. and none of these people are ever going to be taken to task, why would I let Rishi keep talking to me like this? I can walk out of here. And I can lie about him on the way out, you know? It's not like she's some, like, moral pillar, but she knows, like, her own limits. And I think we see that with a lot with, like, characters like Yaz and Eric,

who sort of dabble in what their moral limits are and what they really believe and how they really feel about this world that they are in some ways privileged in, but in other ways not privileged in at all. And then generally with characters like Yasmin and Eric, we see them think about it, give it thought, give it introspective, and then constantly reinvest in the old systems

that do not and will not ever benefit them. That's not a moral judgment. Obviously, the way that they're doing it is like in extremes and with like things that actually do result in taking away electricity from British citizens. Highly illegal shit. Really illegal. Like everybody's breaking the law on this show. And I just have to say the kids at Pierpoint, stop breaking the law.

And then running to your managers and being like, let me detail to you how I broke the law. Like when Sweetie is like, hey, I've learned this stuff about Pierpoint. as she goes to talk to like Eric about it, I'm just like, Sweetie. But I also love that like SweetPee is the only person in this office who actually understands how fucked they are because she is the only person in this office with social skills. She's like, oh, my friend upstairs told me this

and my friend on the third floor told me this and I put it all together, whereas everyone else is just getting high on cocaine. You know, Sweetie has as many hours in the day as Beyonce say is she is doing all of this socializing and running an only fans page and being really successful at her job. Maybe some of it is a little illegal. I do believe that was an accident on her part. Sweet P is the MVP of this season. She is one of my favorite characters. And to your point, I do think that's the funniest thing that the show is also saying, which is everybody at the company is shitting on Sweet P. Rishi feels like he has some type of power over her just because they

slept together once and he knows that she has an only fan. And I love how the series is unfolding that they're like, to your point, Sweet P is almost one of the best at her job because she's the only one, to your point, who has social skills and is willing to talk to other people in the company or is even just willing to like read? And I'm like, is Sweet P just far more intelligent? Like, already I think Sweetie is way smarter than Yaz or Rob. I'm like, you've already done way more on your job

than these two have done in three fucking seasons. Oh, yeah. Like, she's better at her job and she's better at life. I feel like the palate cleanser of the Rishi episode would be seeing what Sweet Pete does on a day-to-day basis. Because while it is wild and, like, she's an influencer and she has an OnlyFans page, it is much more like normal, relatable. Like, she has, you know, some amount

of like priorities and perspective, it seems, from the little bit that we know about her. And, you know, she's also making a choice to be here. And she is also in this very moment about to be very burned by this company most likely. I think that like what the show asks over and over is like, what lessons do people learn from these moments, from these moments, from these burnings by these systems. Like for, you know, Rishi, we watch a whole episode of him making mistake after mistake after mistake. And the only lesson he learns is to spin those mistakes into like a reconvincing

of himself that this is the way that the world is. And I have to be doing this. Whereas like maybe someone like Venetia. or Sweet Pea or Darya from season one makes these mistakes, gets burned, and allows themselves to learn something from it and to make a different choice and to make a move. I mean, we saw it with Darya, like, she went to Goldman.

You know, it's not like she changed her life, but she made a change. Like, she wasn't happy and she made a change. And, you know, do we think, Rishi is happy. I don't know if anyone on industry is happy, but I think what we're kind of like locating with Sweepey is that I think the genius thing about industry

is over the course of three seasons. They've been very good. Each season, they kind of introduce a new generation into Pier Point. And you see the Eric Rishi level where they're getting to the point where they're just like, oh, we're still the bottom wrong, but it's just a new ladder. So there's these people where it's like you have the company men who are just like,

wait, I'm aging. I'm in my 40s, my 50s, my 60s. And I am no closer to being more powerful probably than I was in my 30s. It's just now on the face of ESG imploding. Then you kind of have the Yaz and the Rob generation where it's like they still want the validation from Eric. They still want the validation from. from these larger than life figures, but they're starting to realize,

is like, would that even be worth it? And I think with Sweetie's generation, which is so funny, and even Venetia, you're like, Sweetie knows who she is. Like,

I don't think Sweet Pea is this moral, moral arbiter of good. I think she's just like, no, I know how transactional life is. I'm an influencer. Like, I have an Onlyfans.

I know who I am. I know what I want. And I just think that, like, there's no hiding it. I think Eric tries to hide like he's a good person. I think Eric tries to be like, I'm a father figure.

You know, these are all my kids. And even Rishi's like, motherfucker, I've been here with you for years. You do the same thing with each new set. The minute they are threatening you, you get rid of them. And I think Sweet P is an interesting kind of like mirror into kind of like this new generation of kids that are going out in the world who grew up on TikTok, who grew up with influencer culture being like, this may not be good for society, but at least they were born knowing that like, no, most of life is transactional.

And I can create, and I have some amount of power over creating those transactions, you know, like if it's not working at Peerpoint, I got an only fan, which is, you know, printing money or whatever. Like, you're right. Like, it's not a moral good or bad. It is a difference in generation. And, yeah, industry has done like, saved by the bell the new class a lot more seamlessly than saved by the bell did.

like it has brought in these younger characters in a kind of subtle way. I would also love to shout out Anraj, who completely broke my heart in the Rishi episode. But these really, and that the performance by Erfhan Shamji is really like, it's very subtle. You know, like he doesn't get a lot of lines. And the mustache is playing a part as well,

like in his little, you know, that he wants to, it's a new look. trying out the mustache. But the real sadness in his voice when he tells Rishi, at one point, Rishi's, you know, getting all alpha and amped and rah, rah, rah, and he says, don't push me. Like, he very sadly is like, is like, don't push me. And you just get this feeling that he is looking at Rishi as someone that he admires, as someone who is in a senior position to him, who is or has made a lot of money for the company and for himself. But he also sees him for what he is, which is like a nasty, unhappy person. And it almost, almost seems to penetrate Rishi when

Anraj tells him that he's scared to come into work sometimes because he doesn't know how Rishi is going to talk to him. And it's a very like vulnerable, sad moment. But you also, you know, see Anrash give Rishi $2,000 to bet on horses. It's like, it's not, but there is some, some level of rejection from this, like, just a little bit younger generation of these, of some of these, like, older systems and lifestyles and masculinity and power structures that are coming into play. And, you know, like, they might become just as jaded as Yasmin and Robin. Harper's different on account of the sociopathness. But Enraged to me is like that moment I was just like when he almost penetrates

kind of like the shell of Rishi, I'm like, oh, this was Rishi. Rishi, there was someone in Rishi's life. I was scared to come to work. And then Rishi had to make the decision where he's like, I'm going to become a monster. That's the only way to survive. And I'm like, to our younger generation conversation, I'm like, oh, Enrash has the sensible thing

where I'm like, he wants to do his job, make money and go home. He does not want to make this his life. Same thing with Sweet Pee. I get the sense that SweetPee is like an analog for Yaz where it's like, SweetPee is like, everybody in this world just thinks of me as this like young, hot sex symbol, whatever, with her only fans.

She's like, I'm going to use this to my benefit. I'm going to, like, I'm going to have some control over my life and I'm going to do something with this. Whereas with Yaz, it's like the most powerful man in the room.

She's just, it's like a magnet. She's like, I need to like ingratiate myself where it's like, sweepie's like, fuck all that shit. like she, Sweet Pete does something that it's even hard for you have to do where she's like, Eric, I'm going to be in that fucking meeting room.

I am not leaving until you come. I was like, oh, Sweetie is good at this. Like, I was proud of her. I was just like, Sweetie, you are doing your thing. Your spice girl's costume looks great. Like, I'm, seems sweet. And Eric decides in that moment, I believe, when she invites him quite sternly into a conference room to meet her in five minutes, that she will not be one of the little play things that he takes under his wing.

Because, like, for as motivated and, you know, a juggernaut-like as Harper is, we have often seen her cower under Eric and under power. She just sort of emotionally can't handle it because of that, you know, the lack of, like, EQ, like the lack of in-touchness with who she is. and maybe if she is a sociopath, then that is difficult. But, like, we do see that with Sweet P's seemingly, as she does know kind of where her boundaries lie. I really got this sense with, like you mentioned, with that moment with Anraj and Rishi,

that, like, Rishi was that to someone at some point, like you said. There were a couple of things like when someone in that meeting asks him, were you always like this, that really give across the feeling of, like, no, he didn't make a choice to be a monster. He made a series of choices to not do the right thing, to not choose, like, the more ethical route, the route that's better for him emotionally,

the route that's better for his wife, for his child, for the family that he's chosen. He made a series of decisions. It's like that analogy about, like, you know, a frog in a pot and the water temperature is slowly rising and they don't know until it's boiling. Roishi is boiling in his episode, and for a lot of these other characters, we're watching the temperature rise and them being aware of it, but not knowing what each of these small

decisions mean. Or getting out of the pot and then just be like, I actually like when it's boiling. Actually, it was really warm in the pot. Actually, I was really, it was a comfortable temperature at the pot. Maybe it'll stay at that temperature. Maybe if I go back into this room with fucking blue blood Henry and his crazy uncles, then, like, it'll be so cozy. and comfortable.

But, you know, like there's also, well, I was going to say there's also a little hope. We see Rob and Yaz literally get into the bed with one another and have some sweet, human friendship moments. I did

start laughing because I did remember that Yaz confessed a murder in that moment. All right, that's my last question for you. We have to talk. This is the last section. Not I've talked about the show, but just talking about TV. The thing that worries me about this choice. I knew that this entire season was leading to, yes, maybe Harper seemingly killed the father. Now, knowing what industry is,

knowing how unexpected it is, knowing how they just don't save shit. They're just like, we're putting three seasons of fucking plot into one episode. Do you feel like there needs to be another twist to make Yaz's killing her father not seem obvious. Like another narrative twist that happens after this twist or another twist

to the story of her killing her father. To the reveal. Because it was like, I was not surprised when she's just like, she's like, ah, I killed my father. I'm just like, well, that's what the show has kind of been hinting at this whole time. Is there another, do you need to see another flashback? something that Harper says,

I feel like there needs to be one other layer to this story because that is a big, her becoming a murderer is a big leap for the show. Yeah, I think we're all really scarred by season two of Friday Night Lights. Like it is not great when a show that's not about murder becomes about murder. I think I feel comforted by the amount

that this season has not been about murder so far. You know, we're about to go into episodes, I'm a little worried, but I do, you know, we've been seeing all of these flashbacks to that boat. So I am imagining that a good chunk of episode six is going to take place on that boat and the reality of what happened. And I do expect that murder, I'm going to call it a manslaughter, is going to like have enough depth. and detail to it to not just feel like a twist for twist's sake.

Like I'm not, here's the thing. I think industry, I think Mickey and Conrad, industry is one of my favorite shows. Like I am, this is, I haven't had this much fun watching a show in a while.

I think they will land this plane, but I do think the Friday night lights comp to me is just like, that is a perfect example of like, whenever a show, to your point, that's not about murder, starts getting into the wonky nature

of that shit. I'm just like, I don't, want to see Yaz in jail. I don't want to see Yaz on trial. Like, it could work. I'm not saying it couldn't. But it's not what I'm most interested in.

Yes, I don't want to watch a cover-up. You know, like, I don't want to watch Yaz having to, like, landry her way through a murder. I want to watch, like, the emotional devastation that comes with what I'm going to assume is accidentally killing your terrible, terrible father who had just held you down, choked you and poured a glass of wine on your face.

So, like, I do think they've done a pretty good job of setting up how she may have found herself in such a situation and how she's been able to, I mean, what we now know, sort of, is that for the extent that we have been watching her for the last season, she has the personal knowledge

that she killed her father. And oh my, the look on her face after she tells Rob and then realizes that she's told Rob and that he has either not believed her literally or just taking it on is like slapstick comedy. Like, so hilarious.

Once again, and this is my biggest pet peeve, I will say it again, the characters in fucking industry cannot help themselves when it comes to committing wild fucking crimes and then just being like, hey, would you like to hear about it?

I'm like, yes, this feels like something that is very, very weird to tell your friend that you're cuddled with. But, hey, I'm not judging. I've never killed anyone. I'm not judging.

But it doesn't seem, if I was her lawyer friend, I would be like, hey, yes, wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have. I don't know if you watch Survivor, but there is nothing that someone on Survivor

loves more than finding a secret hidden immunity idol and then telling everyone about it. Like, it's in our nature. We can't help ourselves when we've done something really good or really bad or really wild. You want to expel it from your body. And I think what we see with Yaz in that moment is that that is, you know, Henry told her that he felt so vulnerable with her and that she could be vulnerable with him. And what that means is to not pee on each other, in fact,

but for her to pee on him. And then turns right around and tells her that he can only date down, and that is obviously dating down to her. Like, that was not true vulnerability. I think what she feels in that moment, in that bed, with, you know, the loving exchange with Rob, is real vulnerability. And she, I don't know that she made a mistake,

but she clearly thinks she made a mistake because she felt so vulnerable that she told the most vulnerable thing inside of her. So she spiritually pissed on Rob by revealing that she might have off her dad, is what you're saying. That is correct. And it does maintain the sexual relationship

between Rob and Yasmin, where they've never actually even touched each other, but have, you know, fucked each other in every way possible. And are also, once again, Shout out to Mickey and Conrad, but once there was the vision, the ayahuasca vision of Nicole pissing a lot. I was just like,

there's a lot, there's a lot going on metaphorically with urine in this episode. Yes and Rob might be perfect for each other because their minds are just, they're under the waterfall of urine, and they need to get out. They need to save each other. They just have to make the choice.

Life is a series of choices. They just have to do it. That's why you are a massive. of your craft, Jody. No, Charles, you said the thing about they're under a waterfall of urine. That's why you're a masterclass right here, folks. That's why I'm the Rishi. That's why they pay me the big fucking bucks.

I won't tell HR. Guys, until it's time. Guys, thank you for listening to our 45, 50-minute HR, contentious HR discussion. Thank you for our sweet P, Kai Grady on the ones and twos. always producing us. He's the best. Guess what? We will be back discussing episode six and seven of industry. We can't wait, but we'll see y'all very soon. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright creatures. What if a Pacific octopus held the key to a mystery that could

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