The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Industry’ Season 3 Finale: Et Tu, Brute?

Episode Date: September 30, 2024

Charles and Jodi stay the night at a countryside estate to recap the ‘Industry’ Season 3 finale. They discuss their feelings about the season as a whole, the boldness of the final episode, and why Yasmin’s arc ends in a dark place (4:40). Along the way, they talk about how Eric's and Harper’s perpetual dissatisfaction remains both their Achilles heel and their superpower (25:19). Later, they unpack Rishi’s season-long downfall and what hitting rock bottom means for him (36:40). Hosts: Charles Holmes and Jodi Walker Producer: Kai Grady Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Discover the craftmanship behind every bite. Borset committed to craft since 1905. Welcome to the Prestise TV podcast where we're really into Fossian Bargans, freshwater fish and prosciutto money. My name is Charles Holmes, one half the midnight boys. She's Jody Walker, one half, and we're obsessed. and we're here together to discuss the season three finale, baby series finale the way they was going out of industry. Jody, how are you feeling?

Are you safe? Well, Charles and wonderful listeners, as we have just chatted about offline, I did have to evacuate a hurricane this weekend in the mountains of North Carolina. Who knew? And as I was watching the, industry finale. I was both thrilled with the opportunity to have power and internet and the opportunity to watch the industry finale. I was also, as I was thinking about podcasting about it this

morning in my hotel room with all of my belongings surrounding me, really thinking about the line, the institution doesn't suffer. I mean, how did you feel from going from a very physical like threatening hurricane to an emotional hurricane because when I was watching this episode I was like, God damn a lot is happening right now. Yeah, the thing is,

I know to expect an emotional hurricane from industry. I did not know to expect a hurricane in the mountains of North Carolina. But it was, I mean, you know, Charles, we do not often get to discuss this, but listeners of my other podcasts

might know, I'm a bit of a crier. I'm a bit of a TV crier. Most anything can get me going. I'm like, I'm not in my own life. But industry is not a show that often brings me to tears. It brings me to gasps. It brings me to jaw drops.

But this one, this one had me on the edge. It was emotional. Spoiler, were you when Rob, he sees Henry Muck get up? He sees like the fucking engagement. The look on my man's face is like, damn, bro. When he's like, to gas, I get it. I get it. I was like, not my man, Rob.

Not my man. Rob, I mean, we got to get into Rob. What a win. Honestly, a win of a finale for him. Here's the thing. We're going to get into it because I do agree, while it does not feel like Rob won. I felt like I did after Get Out, which I'm like, you got out, Rob. Like, you got out.

You're selling your little magic mushrooms. And you don't even know what you got out of. You don't even know what you've escaped. So here, let me, before we spoil the entire episode, let me do a little bit of a recap. This is our season finale, Infinite Largesse, written and directed by Mickey Down and Conrad Kay. Otto tries to steal Harper away from Petro once he realizes that the latter is a snitch who doesn't have the stomach for insider trading. Initially, Harper rebuffs the deal to stay at Levitin, but takes a powerful man up on his offer at the minute, one too many Google meetings pop up on her calendar.

Yasmin convinces Rob to visit Henry Muck with her and finally takes Muck's, uncle up on his offer of protection in exchange for marrying Henry. After having a passionate smash sesh with Rob, Henry and Yass announced their engagement at dinner, leaving Rob to head west to become the CFO of his new solo, sibling. How do you say that? No, I think you're nailing it. I don't think I'll offer any corrections. Listeners, I'm fucking butcher that company.

Meanwhile, Eric becomes a puppet for the buyers of Pierpoint as he ensures all of his colleagues that none of them are getting fired. Months later, he's handed a $20 million check for his services with the news that Pierpont's London office is getting shuttered. And most dramatically of all, Rishi's wife is shot in the head, thanks to Rishi being 500,000 pounds in the hole. Now that that is out of the way, Jody, initial thoughts after you shut off the finale, the season 3 finale?

Masterful? I mean, it's just an excellent series, season finale. And that is, and as we know, industry is getting a season four. So it's not a series finale. But it's very clear, I think, that they made it to be both. And that is a difficult line that a lot of shows who don't know if they're getting renewed have to thread. And I don't know if I've ever seen one thread this sort of specific circumstance that well. Where because, because I think industry, every episode of industry is made with this sort of abandon because its characters live with this sort of abandon. It could all end here.

Like, you know, we're, it's just on to the next, onto the next, onto the next, onto the next. And that is, I think, sort of the ultimate feeling that I had for each of these characters at the end of this season finale is just keep moving forward. Just keep self-preserving. Just keep self-destructing. Sometimes they look the same. I mean, even just from the opening, you know, it opens and closes with Rob and Rob's new curly American haircut. Good for Rob.

Hell no. Rob, here, let me hook you up with you. You don't get it, Charles. You don't get it. Let me hook you out with my barber, Rob. We don't give you a nice fade. Come on. That wasn't cutting it.

Jody, really? That's what you're into? That haircut? I'm into any haircut other than the one that Rob has had for the last two seasons. This is bad. So, yes. So, and it's just like it's such like a, it's such just like a funny little character thing. Like now he's in, you know, now he's in Silicon Valley.

He's got his curly little alpaca American haircut that all of the tweens have now. And like, Rob is a tween. He is like entering the tween phase of his, of his businesshood. But, you know, it starts sort of like in media res with what we recognize is a flash forward. And Rob says as he presents, you know, his. his mushroom pills. He is doing a typical Silicon Valley pitch, but he says, I'm sure you've all been programmed to expect something radical. But what I have for you today, it really isn't new at all. And Charles, would you believe me if I told you that he's talking about the finale itself?

You've been programmed to expect something radical from this finale. And yes, someone is shot execution style in this finale. We see and find out about two deaths in this finale. It is wild. It is outrageous, but it's actually not radical. It's just classic industry. It's power, it's legacy, it's self-destruction, and it's, can anyone ever be satisfied? It hits all the classics. I'm so happy that you enjoyed it because I was watching it being like, is this one of, not just the better, but one of the best season finales that I've ever seen? because it is so hard to make endings for anything, but especially TV,

because the whole engine of TV is like, if it's successful, this thing will never end. But watching it, I think the thing that people have come to love about industry is that it is so opposite of the streaming content that we usually get, which is like, what do your friends usually tell you when they're into a show?

Well, it takes a couple seasons to get good. Oh, it takes a couple of episodes. Well, nothing really happens, But then for industry, I'm like, to your point that you said earlier, every single episode that we get of this show, they are just burning through plot. And what I loved about this season finale is it has a lot of people have been saying, like, they didn't know if they were getting renewed. It just was announced. But it has that feeling of they are, they know their TV history where we get for a very, very split second. What if this was madman?

What if Harper does get to spin off? What if Leviathan is successful? She gets sweepie. She gets Onrash. This is the version of her life. And then they're just like, psych! Then there is the very rom-com, will they, won't they? Finally, we get Yaz, Rob.

And I'm sorry, from the minute I saw Yaz looking at Rob's dumbass face with the scratch on the lottery ticket, I'm like, yeah, it's a rap for your boy. even when she goes to have sex with them, I'm just like, this is a, this is a fucking, this is the green mile, this is the death sentence, this is, this is her walking to that room being like, hey, we're both about to make a decision that's going to ruin both of our lives. But hey, it's fine. And I just think that the genius of this show is that they're like,

we're going to give you what you want. We're going to give you the classic. If this was our series finale, we're going to give you the moments you've been waiting this entire series for. And then at the last minute, each and every time they pull the rug out from under you and leave you with something like, how are they going to do with season four?

This is insane. I loved it. Am I overrating? Potentially. Because here's the thing. I will say, I do not like every choice in this season finale. There were multiple choices.

Like, we could talk about the Rishi scene. We could talk about various things that happened where I'm like, I don't know if I like that as a viewer, but as a writer, as a TV critic, as someone who just enjoys watching TV. I was like, now I'm interested how they're going to get out of this. Like, I'm interested how you bring

Rishi back. I'm interested how you make a season four where the four main characters, Eric, Rob, Harper, and Yaz, what is industry if potentially Eric isn't in it? What's been industry without Pierpoint? What's industry

when it seems like all of them are now working in an industry that's not just trading anymore? Yaz isn't even working. So did any part of this season finale leave you a little bit worried? Like, what is industry when it is not a UK show about peer point in trading? And at least this version of capitalism. It's like Harper doing espionage.

It's like, you know, Harper finally being free to do crimes with someone else's millions of dollars. I think for me, that is actually the part that I sank most comfortably into is like, I just, at this point to me, the show has earned that it can pull off these extreme pivots. You know, like this season was an extreme pivot around most people, or Harper at least, being away from Peerpoint. We've been slowly sort of decimating Peerpoint to build it back up. It is what these people in their lives need to see and are forced to be to see now is that like the institution is not. not their life.

The institution, when the institution doesn't suffer, the people inside of it do. And we can do without peer point. Like, I just think that the show has earned, they'll figure out what to do with Rishi. He'll be there or he won't.

As we've also seen, characters just, just like in life, characters just leave, and then they pop back up in a boardroom. You know, like, they can kind of do what they want with these players. The parts of me,

the parts of the finale, that worked a little less for me are the parts that were atypical to industry and that did seem to serve a more series finale point. I think as I reflect on some of those things

more, I do like them. Like, I like them in reflection. But in the moment, when we started montaging, when we started like montaging Rob and Yaz's relationship and, like, flashing back to them in the gym about to absolutely destroy a public restroom.

Like those moments, they felt atypical. And so they did take me out a little bit. But now when I like think back on them, I feel kind of warm about it. You know, but some, it had a few moments that just felt a little less like the show to me. And I think that those moments did serve a larger point of kind of being reflective

and making it like a series finale. But for me, like, yeah, I didn't worry about these sort of big, ambitious swings for the characters. They're all going to be in different cities next season. It's going to be fine. I mean, I also think that part of that, what you're speaking about is there was this feeling to me,

even aesthetically how it was shot because Mickey and Conrad are now taking on directorial duties as well as being the showrunners and writing the bulk of the season, I was like, oh, this feels like a show where they are forecasting the type of show they want to make next, which is like industry 2.0. Well, also that feeling of like, I got that as well where when there's that shot of jazz and Rob at the dinner table and everybody else disappears and it's just the two with them. I was like, this does not feel like a very industry shot, but I was just like by the end of the end, I was like, I tripped on it, but by the end of the episode, I was like, is this

where they want to go? Is this actually what they always wanted the show to be? But they were newest creators where it was like, oh, it's when we got industry season one, it wasn't like, oh, we can be the show runners and write this show and direct the show and then do everything. It's like, throughout these three seasons, you see these creators taking more ownership of every single part of this show. And I'm like, this actually might be closer to what they wanted industry to be or what they wanted to be able to do. And that's why, to your point, what I've tripped up against, after like watching scenes over, reading some interviews, listening to some podcasts, I'm like, actually, I'm not tripping up on them as much. Is that fair? Yeah, well, that's kind of what I mean.

is like upon reflection, I like those moments more than I did while watching the show because I think it's like, it's the creators and it's the show doing the same, they're doing something that they've sort of earned in the same way that their characters

have earned it. In the finale, they were allowing themselves these beautiful moments. Like in the same way that the characters are briefly allowing themselves these beautiful moments as they sort of like head into new directions

of their life. the sex scene on the bench between Rob and Yaz is, I think, hands down, the only beautiful sex scene we have seen in this show absolutely full of sex. It is beautifully shot. It is pleasurable. It is not transactional. It is like really gorgeously, passionately done in a way that much like I always say about this show, sex is not, sex doesn't look like this. It is, anywhere else on TV. And usually I mean that like, ew, gross, no thank you.

This time I mean it like, wow, that's gorgeous. That makes me feel like I'm watching sex. Like, that doesn't make me feel like I'm watching, you know, an interpretation of sex. And I think in that scene, the, you know,

creators are kind of allowing themselves this brief moment of showing us something beautiful in the same way that the characters are allowing themselves to have something beautiful that will not last. And at least one of them knows it during the moment. So, yeah, the finale was really, like,

interesting and ambitious in that way. The quote that Rob says at the beginning that you've been programmed to expect something radical, it's true. Like, we've been programmed sort of to expect maybe a death or Harper to do crime, something insane. We actually haven't been programmed to expect Yaz and Rob to have, like, this,

this beautiful moment of a true exchange of love. And I think that was, is, it's a really special part about what industry does and what these creators do is really guide us through something, not in a handholding way, but in a, we've earned this way. Like, we've brought you here because every moment in these characters' lives has led up to this moment. I mean, I think the thing that about the Yasmin and Rob, just the entire episode, is like you keep bringing up when Rob says your program to, you know, think is going to be radical or whatever.

And it's like the genius of what happens right after that scene when Harper is with Otto is at one point, Otto makes a joke where he's just like, this is starting to sound like a Fosian deal. This is starting to feel like starting to sound like a deal with the devil. And it's like at every point in this series finale, all of these characters are either programmed or programmed themselves to seem like, oh, I'm going to make the new decision. I'm going to choose new money versus old money. I'm going to choose love over duty. I'm going to choose all of these things.

And slowly through the episode, you realize, they all go back to the status quo, where it is like, Yasmin, the thing with her and Rob that's so heartbreaking is like, GASM knows it's not that subtle. Yasmin is at a gas station. She sees a miserable mom in the car with her kids. And she sees Rob with this lottery ticket. And she's like, Rob, did you win? He laughs like, never.

And you're just like, oh, she already knows. I can't live this life. She's lived a year, a year and a half as a normie without any money and out without any of the protections of her old money world. And in that moment, she's like, what's Rob going to do to protect me from the newspapers? What is Rob? Like, I'm never going to be happy.

When they were at the hotel, it's like, is this what normal life is? Where some, like this, I have to be cordial and say thank you to this woman who's helping me to my room. Fuck this. And it's like this heartbreaking moment. But you're also like, oh, this was always who. Yaz was. She is on this cycle of generational abuse. And I'm like, oh, she was all, everything in her life was going to lead her to make the decision where.

she ends up just marrying a version of her father. And that's the heartbreaking part. When she's on the phone and like the woman from the publishing companies, like you're exactly like your father. And I was like, no, yes, isn't, yes, it's going to make the right decision. And then at the end of the episode, when she gets that crucial bit of information, where she hires the woman that was having sex with her father on the boat, the woman unwisely reveals that the baby is not her father's.

Then we get another reveal, which the woman was like, I worked on that boat. I saw a lot of your father and your father's friends bringing on young preteen girls. And she's just like, yes, I see you. If that happened to you, I am here. They embrace. and then Yaz basically does this thing where she turns, she walks out, and she tells the butler, get rid of her.

I was like, oh, this show is so much darker and warped. Even I, because in that moment, like, you're like, oh, Yaz has made a decision there. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. to distance herself from understanding, from her past,

from these dark memories of whatever happened, and be like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't get to do that anymore. And it was, what did you think of like just where Yaz ends up in that whole suit? It was hard to watch that entire thing. What is dark about it is that we are seeing Yasmin make decisions. And Yasmin has been able to convince herself, for a long time.

And sometimes it is true that she is a victim of circumstance, that all of these things are happening to her and she has no control over them. And she just has to keep going and look out for number one. And when you're in a sort of survivalist state, that is understandable both to outsiders and to you inside of your own mind. The scene that you have mentioned,

when watching Yasem, is in the car at the gas station, watching Rob inside scratch a lotto ticket. Her eyes are kind of going back and forth between him and between this family where a mother looks miserable in the passenger seat of the car as the children kick the seat.

And she's clearly thinking about her future. She's just gotten off the phone with the publisher who she is attempting to sort of, blackmail into not making her be the scapegoat for her father's crimes. And she's thinking about her future. This scene, I am not a Sopranos watcher, so I don't want to say that I have noted this, but I have seen it noted that this is a pretty direct pull,

this scene from a very similar scene in the Spranos. That moment at the gas station, and also the moment between Harper and Eric talking on the phone, while Harper is on the bridge are like the two nuts of this episode to me. There are four central characters and they are continually sending

this message of like, what is enough? When are you satisfied? And how do you feel comfort? Because what we're watching Yasmin do is not just choose to be comfortable, but choose to see what her version of comfortable is. Because as she looks at Rob, Rob is doing something for himself that is like a pure small

moment of happiness. He is also able to like seek comfort and seek happiness and to just do a little lotto scratch off, have a little fun is like a nice moment for him in this gas station. And she looks at it and she's disgusted because she is not comforted by Rob's comfort. She is comforted by history, much like Eric, who has always chosen the institution, is always talking about the history of PurePoint. These are two people who want to be a part of something and who cannot choose their own happiness. They can only choose the happiness that has been prescribed to them by these institutions

of family, of company. And they actually each both Eric and Yasmin have these most. kind of of silence in the episode where like the music goes out, everything goes out. And I saw those moments. I think it's Eric in the war room and it's Yasmin sitting on her absolutely uncomfortable bed in Henry's mansion. I see these moments of them being absorbed into history. They are not part of the legacies that they think they are. They are just invisible players because of the choices that they're making, because they are choosing the comfortable thing to them.

And they're just, I just found those moments and that lottery ticket moment and the bridge moment so remarkable because it goes back to this thing that industry is always saying, the line in season two where Harper and Eric are trying to make the big move, and they say it's a good thing no one's ever satisfied. because we're just seeing these people seek satisfaction

knowing they'll never find it. They're never going to get that. I mean, Eric is handed $20 million. $20 million. And he's essentially still in an empty, like he's even, they're like, he's like, you know what should come from me. Basically, this sociopathic moment

where he's like, I'll tell everybody. that they're essentially fired. And I think it's some of the best acting I've ever seen shout out along, where he's in this empty, he's in the empty peer point floor,

trading floor, and he's just with his bat calling people up saying like, sorry to tell you. And then he has this call with Harper and you're like, to your point where it's like,

oh, the thing that Harper, Eric, Gazz have, is that, oh, it's not about money. It's about power. It's about $20 million to Eric is like, it might as well be $2. The thing he wanted, he wanted the chair.

He wanted to be one of the top guys at Pierpoint. Same thing with Harper. It's like Harper gets what she wants. She has Leviathan. Petra shows her this other way to live, where it's like, oh, we get to have like donuts and we're just colleagues. We're not taking any of this messy shit home.

And we're millionaires. We're millionaires. We did fine. And it's like even in the previous episode, Harper gets to see a version of this world where it's like, I'm not saying Petra is living the best life just in terms of motion.

Like I'm just like, she seems stunted, but she has a hot husband. She keeps her work at work. She knows what she wants. And it's like the moment where the secretary is just like, hey, Petra put a bunch of like fucking work drinks.

What was it that she put on her calendar? A monthly team dinner. All right. As someone who chat out Justin, who helps run Prestige TV, if anyone can tell you how I feel about team meetings or what I've never felt closer to a character

when Harper was just like, fuck you mean team meetings. And then the next scene, she's like, Otto, I'm ready to make the deal with the devil. Let's go. I'm like, that is so related. This is the most relatable. Okay, it's not relatable to me. I love team dinners. You and I are

about to see each other in a few weeks in L.A., I literally can't wait. We will be having some dinners. I'm going to have a great time. You know what I love? Small talk. Do you know how many times I was like, Justin, do I have to go?

And I live in L.A. You have to go, Charles, and you will have a good time. These are your friends. No, I'm hard for you. We are a family. As a business, we are a family.

And that means that we can mistreat each other. That's why that moment on the bridge is like the other heartbeat of this episode to me. because what do Eric and Harper say to each other as their debriefing that she has been on 30 under 30? Eric gave a quote that could be read in multiple ways. He is getting a $20 million payout. She is working at, she is a, you know, partner at her own fund at like 26 or something.

Great situations. And what do they say to each other about the pay? It's not enough. whatever they paid us, it's not enough. This word, enough. It comes up over and over. It's not what they need for happiness. Money isn't what they need for happiness.

I'll tell you a little secret. Power isn't either. It's not power. It's protection. These people are framing themselves in their own minds as survivalists, as people that the world is attempting to pummel. And they have to protect themselves by whatever means necessary. Eric has chosen a traditional,

company as his protection. Yaz has chosen old money family as the form of protection she understands. And Harper has chosen crimes mostly. There is a still from that scene on the bridge where she's on the phone. And it looks so like the meme of like girl who's going to be okay. She's like got her little arms crossed. She's got her foot. She's looking out in the distance and she's smiling.

and what is she smiling about? That she's about to go make a deal with the devil. She's about to leave what should be comfortable at this company with Petra. Like, team dinners, donuts, small talk in the office, doing your job like you're supposed to do it. Also a partner being like,

we don't have to break the law to make a lot of money. And Harper is like, what other reason is there to live besides breaking the law? Truly. What other reason? Otto says to them when Harper briefly chooses ethics, he says, I can't be in business with people who are comforted by the casual slide toward mediocrity that is the hallmark of modern life. And if that doesn't speak to Harper, I don't know what does. And even though I don't relate to Harper's desire not to ever have a team dinner ever, I do relate.

to her extreme discomfort with contentment. And that is when we see her flare up, is the moment she's content, she starts moving like a shark again. I'm curious what you think about her initial decision to not sign on with Otto and to stay with Petra.

I was very surprised by that. I was caught off guard. That's why I think the genius kind of of this finale, was that you look at the runtime, I think it's like an hour and 11 minutes, and I was just like, this is a very, very long season finale.

And when that original decision with Otto, I was very, very surprised where I was just like, this is the least Harper, like, move ever. Harper would be the first person to take a deal with the devil. I was like, Otto's talking her language. And that was when I was like,

I was like when she said no, or when basically, like they go back to Leviathan, you realize like, she's told Petra and they're like, auto fuck off, we don't want you on our fund anymore. Then when there is that moment where Yaz is just like, I'm calling Henry

right now. And then when Eric, when Eric's like, yeah, you know what? I can take the meeting. I, like, I can be the one. I was like, oh, they're doing a thing structurally where all of them are acting in ways where I'm

just like there's going to be another turn. So going back to Harper, I was just like, oh, this does make sense for her character where I think she was making, she was making the anti-erick decision. Where it's like, she's like, actually, I can be my own boss. I have my own fund. I don't have to go align myself with old world money. I don't need this guy to be my boss. Fuck off. I'm going to do, like, I'm just going to go live a happy life, not the mediocre life in reality, but.

for Harper, I'm going to live the mediocre life where me and Petra eat donuts in the morning and have Wednesday fucking drinks with our colleagues. I think that's a very generous way of looking at it for Harper in that that's sort of that she was briefly attempting to choose an ethical life. But something has just clicked into place for me about the sort of least generous way to look at it for Harper when you said that Otto was sort of offering her a deal with the devil and she turns it down. In my mind,

I think she turns it down because Otto has put himself in the place of the devil. And Harper's like, I'm the devil, bitch. Yeah. I am the one who chooses to do this thing. But I do think what it shows for Harper

that she doesn't choose it in that moment, but keeps it as a back burner option, is character growth for Harper? Because it's patience. And like, when you think about the Harper that we saw in season one, like the frenetic ball of energy, chewing gum,

like flying by the seat of her pants in the war room, like never sure what was going to happen next. And you think about this Harper, who is still at her core the same and living dangerously, but taking a beat to be like, something interesting has been presented to me, but it's been presented in the wrong way.

and I'm going to repackage it and present it back to him in a way that makes me in charge and that makes it my choice and that makes me this independent evil operator and not the like, you know, diversity higher face of this guy's organization. Because that's what she says, right? When he like offers kind of for her to be the number one with him, She's like, well, it would certainly look good, wouldn't it? At that point, it seems like the deal is more so, I want you for your brain, but you're also going to be a figurehead. And when she goes back to him, to your point, I love your reading of this because it's like, she's saying, oh, not only is it not enough for me just to be a diversity higher figurehead, I'm going to pitch you on what I want to do first.

And second of all, I don't want to be a pawn in this UK capitalism. I want to go to New York. We're doing American capitalism. I'm going back home. I'm about to do crimes you never even knew existed. American crimes. Growth for Harper is, from what we know for her character is essentially she's running from something

for the first three seasons. She's running away from home. And now Harper being like, I'm going back home. I'm like, that is growth. But I'm just like, here's the thing. If anybody can say like, hey, we have done. capitalism right and by right,

I mean, in the worst possible way, we've destroyed just humanity. It's America and it's New York City, baby. So I'm just like, when she's like, oh, we're going home to do some insider trading? I was like, oh, season four is going to be some of the darkest shit we've ever seen. Like, we have not seen Harper Unleashed like this.

And in the same country as her mom, like we're really about to unearth the mommy issues here? Like, it's going to be bad. It's going to be bad for the world. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terseptide may be able

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Hilton, for the stay. I have also just had another thought that, like, I wouldn't put it past Harper to have stuck with Petra just long enough to stick it to Rishi. Like, she was like, yeah, Otto, we'll circle back on this one. I just, I recently found out that someone, you know, plotted against me moments after I sex with him at his rehearsal dinner. So I'm just going to fuck him over real quick.

His wife's going to get shot and then we'll circle back on this. Let's talk about Rishi. That moment, the reason I love that moment is because what it reveals is like Harper looks at Eric as a worthy opponent where it's like she's upset that Eric fucked her over

but it's just like, well, okay, you're on my level. Game recognized game. Game recognized game. We're enemies for Rishi, the reason I love that is like, you don't even deserve to be in the same room with me. How dare you stab me in the back? And that's what I love about that moment where it's just like for Harper, this isn't about, to your point, this isn't about just money, just power to her.

This is about like, oh, everything in her life is direct. Like, she can only understand her life in terms of just like, I need to get him back worse in the specific industry in this specific way, because I won't be happy. She's not going to be happy if she's like, fuck off Rishi and never talks to him again. She's like, I need to ruin your life in a specific way in this industry. I need to give you hope. And then basically, it's a mirror of what they did to her last season. And I'm like, when she brings in sweet pee, I was just like chef's kiss.

And then I'm like, on Raj is sitting in the fucking is sitting in the foyer. And when he pops up, I'm like, all right, fucking. Heisenberg. What does you think about Rishi's downfall in that moment? It's delicious because he deserves it. He's deeply bad. But, you know, as his wife says later, he is a broken and sick person. I think what's difficult about Rishi is you never see him even flinch towards unbreaking

himself or healing himself in any way. you know, we really, really watch this guy's downfall, but he can't help but be a fucking dick on the way out. Excuse me. Like, I just, that he says the thing that I will not repeat, even though I just said something crazy about Sweet Pee, like about her only fans on the way out. When he, he's essentially like,

you're gonna hire a woman like this who like, I forget, I forget the terminology, but it was that moment where I was like, First of all, Rish, just negotiating-wise, I'm like, this is fucking Harper. Why would Harper ever, I'm just like, Harper is insider trading every other day. I don't think she's going to blink an eye at Onlyfans. Also, Rishi, you just drips your bloody nose cocaine onto your baby. I think you need to fucking relax.

Get the fuck out of here. That's Rishi's downfall is his ego and his belief that he is special and that it's clearly a belief that's been built up over, you know, a decade or two like we see when he's in the boardroom with the kind of company meeting. And he's like, do I really make people uncomfortable? And they're like, yes, you didn't used to be like this. Have you always been like this? And he hasn't always been like this. His ego and his belief that he is so good at something, that he can make so much money that he can, you know, serve the institution. that that makes him a worthy person.

And he's sort of lost all of his humanity and the things that actually give you self-worth. And in that moment, when Harper says, a machine can do your job, we don't need you. You are no longer a necessity. I do feel that that is like the final blow to Rishi's self-worth that kind of breaks him completely

because this job and his ability to make money is sort of like the one thing that he has left, even if he's not really doing it. And for this woman who is so powerful to tell him that, I think like really does break him, as was her intention. So good job.

I mean, but here, the other thing is the reason why I didn't feel like a win, none of this feels like a win for Harper or Yaz or Ross, or Rob is that I think what this season did perfectly is it sets up Eric and Rishi as this old regime. They, to your point, Rishi was at one point like these kids before the institution fundamentally changes him. And then you have the Yaz's and the Robbs and the Harper's almost acting as if, well, I'm going to do it different this time.

I'm not like them. You know what I mean? And I was just like, Harper, you do realize the bill's going to come due for you. Just like even if her thing isn't necessary, she doesn't have a bookie that's going to kill her wife. I'm just like, Harper, you are insider trading with one of the most powerful men in the UK who has enough power to pick you up, have one of his guys pick you up and take you to his weird fucking estate where he wants you to eat raw fish. And that's why if we pivot to like the Rishi, the Rishi death scene, I'm like, I do get it. Like on a narrative level, even though it is a little bit, I was like, whoa, this is not like the show I've been watching. I do think you can make the argument that the gambols and the bets that these characters are making, especially like a Rishi or Harper, are getting to an extent where it's like when the bill comes due, it is going to be that dramatic.

where it's like Harper does not have the protections of a Henry Mock. She doesn't have Pursuit so money. It's not like when she does something, I'm just like, oh, it is easy to pick Harper up in the middle of the street because she does not have security. She's not Henry Mock. Like Rob is not these people. So I was like, how did you feel about the Rishi death scene? Because it was a choice.

I don't hate it. But I do think I was just like, all right, for y'all to land this play next season, it's going to take a lot. Yeah, I think I ultimately saw it and I was thinking about how last episode, when you and I talked about the last two episodes, we were talking about who's going to die. You know, like, someone's going to die.

It's like the stakes have gotten to that point. The show makes an interesting choice in having none of the main characters or characters that we even know well suffer any fatal or very big consequences it makes the people around them suffer the consequences. So, like, you can really only have fear and stakes to the extent that you sort of tether yourself to this world.

And Harper doesn't have fear. Like, Harper's not scared. She's scared of failing, I think, but, like, she's not scared of dying, you know. Like, she lives... Yasmin is a character fueled by fear and fueling. by a desire to protect herself, where that kind of, like, really, you know, id-based sort of motivation gets messed up

is when you love other people and when you, like, attach yourself to other things in this world. And I think that's what we see happening with Rob. I'm circling around because I think it affects all of our characters. I saw Yasmin's choice to marry Henry and to sort of finally reject and turn away Rob as both deeply selfish and also kind of sacrificial. She is releasing Rob in a way that he was never going to release himself from her.

And she does that because she loves him. Rishi presumably loves his wife. even though he has deeply mistreated her, for her to die instead of him establishes actual stakes for these characters. And I think we see this with Eric and Adler too, who we also find out has died. And Eric has forgotten.

And Eric has forgotten because Eric chose to reject that. He chose to, he chose the company over love. Like, he chose to not lean in to the actual relationship that he had with Adler and reject him and just forget about him. Like, that's what we, that's what we see him do. And Adler dies. Like, these are the stakes, you know, is that, is that the people that you love and the people in your life can be harmed by your decisions. And so you either choose better decisions or you choose not to have people in your life who root you to this reality and, and, and to your own humanity.

And, like, that's what Harper does. Rishi's turn now is either to be completely devastated by this. I mean, I think there's a world where Rishi just doesn't come back. Like, we've seen the worst thing happen to him. It's not him dying. It's his wife dying. And he could go, you know, I mean, he's probably going to die too. Like, it could be anything.

It doesn't have to be now, like, we, now we're in. a mob narrative. People disappear in this world all the time because all of it's futile and nothing matters. I mean, Mickey and Conrad have said that the next season, season four, is going to have, I believe, like a dramatic time skip where it's like we added time skip in this season

where it seemed like, I don't know, probably like a couple months, maybe a year had passed. As we wrap up this conversation, what are you excited about in season four where you potentially worried about because I think that this was a demarcation now that industry is a show that seems like it is caught on

in a way it didn't in previous seasons where it's like, oh, it can hang in that Sunday night HBO slot, it can have viral moments. What are you worried about? What do you want to see? Season four. I'm super excited for every individual character's direction.

Like, I'm excited for Harper, to be in New York, to be doing crimes with the institutional backing of Otto. I really like that team up. I like that Jesse has been brought back into the conversation. Do you think Jesse,

you think Jesse is coming back season four? I saw that face. I saw that Duplas face on her computer screen. And I, you know, they talk about him. He's out of jail. I think they opened up the door. Like maybe those are not contractual conversations they even had.

the door, I was just like, is this just kind of like a tease? Like, we haven't forgotten about our boy? Or I'm like, oh, is he back in the fold? I mean, I think that's like yet another, yet another point of how this was such a good season and series finale is like, while they're doing all this stuff to position these characters in ways where we're just like, yep, that's it. See you later. Yasmin has trapped herself in a castle of her own making Harper is,

you know, going back to Facer Demons in New York. Rob is maybe actually a girl who's going to be okay. Wait, you think that's your Rob reading? I took the Rob reading as the most cynical. What? Charles, what's going on? What are you seeing? You couldn't get past those curls. You couldn't get past his new bangs.

Here's the thing. When Rob was originally talking about that mushroom company, though, originally, he's talking about just how transformational the drugs can be. He's like, he's just like, this is so much different than Pierpoint, I'm getting out. Like, it's something that, you know, I can believe in. Did, da, da, whatever. He's the hamster getting off the wheel.

And when I do feel like they open on Rob and they close on Rob, because he is the final character where you're just like, oh, Rob has some type of heart. He has some type of conviction. He is a man of the people. And when he is selling that drug, I'm like, he's not selling something he believes in anymore. When he says by to Yaz, I do think he realizes something about the world, which is, well, of course she chose old money. Of course she chose protection. Why would she choose me?

Of course she chose comfort. And I think they said it in Silicon Valley because I'm like, oh, what is the thing right under? What is the thing that all of those new money Silicon Valley tech startup founders want? they want that, they want to be as important as the lords. They want, they, what happens when all those people get money, they start buying up estates. They try to buy their way into this way of life. And I think that was a very clear indication of not Rob breaking almost, because I do agree with your reading that. I think there is, there is some of Yaz being like, I do love you, Rob.

I'm setting you free. Like I, I'm kind of an old yeller situation. Yeah, that sex scene I did. I thought it was a very well shot sex scene. It did give me old yellow vibes where I'm just like, she is taking Rob out back and fucking, it just fucking killing him. This is hard to watch.

But yeah, I read the episode as I'm like, oh, Rob left this season without a soul, where it was just like he had, he almost got out. And when he's sitting on that couch, I'm just like, there's no, there's no more love in his eyes.

The twinkle is gone. He's just like, hey man, this is what it is. Capitalism, baby. You're so hard on Rob because Rob is so typical. I mean, he's not Harper. He is not operating at an elevated level.

But like you said, you thought he was getting off the wheel. He did. He hopped on another wheel because the world is wheels. The world is wheels is a bar. I am on a podcast. The day after I evacuated, A hurricane. The world is wheels.

I love my job, Charles. I get to write and podcast about television. There's nothing better. The world is still wheels. Whatever it is, we're all hopping on and off wheels. To me, there is like a small amount of hope. Just that, just that Rob has made a decision, you know, and he's made a decision to do something new, whereas we see Yaz has made a decision to do something old.

and that seems more interesting, but it's actually just as typical. I think both of them made the decision to do something old, if I'm going to be honest. Rob made, here's the thing. He's not blazing a new path. It is no coincidence,

and it is, in fact, an amazing reveal that when the camera turns around to show who he's talking to, who he's pitching this to, it's Greg from season one, who, what he do? He went off and wrote a novel. Hop right back on that wheel,

which is not to say the publishing industry is not a wheel. But, like, yeah, we're all just moving in, you know, rotations that have been laid out for us. The choice that Yaz makes and the choice that Rob's, Rob makes are not, and similarly Harper, they all make the same decision. Rob's decision is like, he does hop on another wheel, but he's like, oh, I will never be respected in this world,

Yaz's world, until I have enough money or power to essentially buy my way into it. where it's like even then they still won't respect him. But I do feel like at that dinner, I think something breaks in him where he's just like, no, I'm not going to this fucking mushroom company to change the world. I'm going to this mushroom company so something like this doesn't, never happens again. Where it's like he was caught off guard where I'm just like,

when he, I was just like, bro, this is a horror movie. When he's like, we're going to Henry's estate. I'm like, Rob, you're the only person who's going to this. And like, to be fair,

he takes the devil's bargain when he goes there. It's like everything that you know about Henry, everything you know that he did to the women at that company, what he's done to the poor people of the UK, and you walk away from that, you walk in there with the love of your life, Yaz, and you leave with Yas marrying Henry Muck and you with a check basically backing your mushroom company

and basically making you probably a millionaire in the process. I'm like, he took the devil's deal. Both of them took something from Henry, and that's why I'm like, oh, it felt like it's, this is a very cynical read of it. I'm like, you both drove there essentially to get fucked. Like it's like in very different ways. And jazz was the only one who knew it. And like, Rob was like, lying. And knowing Henry peed on.

So, yeah, you know, it's all, yes, I mean, I agree. But for me, there's something that is a win for Rob about. this veil falling from his eyes. Like he sees the world in a new way when he leaves that estate that allows him to be like, oh, I'm not doing something ethical and good with this mushroom company.

I'm doing something to make money. And I actually think that's like the most ethical way to approach Silicon Valley. It's like all these people know that they're just doing it for money. But they're going to say that, you know, the like Uber for groceries or whatever is, is for ethics. Like, it's for the good of humanity.

And I think to simply know that it is not is like an important and human delineation that maybe Rob is making. And I think that is like my real hope for season four is that like it's a full pivot sort of to Silicon Valley and give. that the treatment that industry has given the financial industry. You know, like, because I just think that's such a new and, like, American look at things. We started off this Rob conversation saying, like, what are you excited for? What are you worried about?

I'm really excited for each individual character's direction. I mean, even Yaz's just ghosting around that castle, like, being, you know, trapped by her own decisions, hiring a new secretary every week because she's disappearing women just like her father did. Inviting Belio Obama to her wedding. Like, when I was looking at the guest list, I was just like, go off, yes.

She'll be there. She'll be there. I am excited for that, though. I do think that it is, I think the thing about industry that I like is, like, succession was always going to be about what was in the title, which is just like who is going to succeed. Of course, it's a bunch about

a bunch of other things. Same way Game of Thrones. It's like, who's going to sit on the throne, which is where industry is like, it can be about it. It's about capitalism. So I'm like,

I do, at the end of this third season, I'm like, I think I had enough of Pierpoint. Like, I understand as a creator where I'm like, what else is there to say

about Pierpoint? Versus I'm like, once you go to New York or you go to Silicon Valley, I'm like, it's a similar show, but though, it's totally different,

gives it a new energy. All of these characters are in a new space. the way Americans would have treated a lot of shit that happened in industry is just going to be fundamentally different. So I left this season finale being like, if this was a series finale, I would have been happy because it's not. I'm like, I want to see what industry

2.0 is. I want to see what happens when Mickey and Conrad are like, all right, everything is off. You're three. They are the people now. They're the Erics. They're the Rishis. They are older. And about to fuck up. probably another economy, unfortunately, especially if you're Harper.

Yeah, and so then what I'm worried about is the way that all of those pretty disparate storylines fit together. Like, they're literally geographically in all different places. And I think that's, while I think they pulled it off well, you know, removing Harper from Peerpoint did give us less Harper this season.

And I think that was like, that was ultimately fine, the focus on Yaz and Rob I think like told remarkable stories and I think that Harper's story

was ultimately like very rich and interesting and Eric's story as well but like I don't I don't want

another season of everyone is separate and now everyone is separate so I'm not it's like I'm not worried

about it I trust this show but I'm I'm most curious to see how they bring all of these storylines

together And I just... Glass half full before he depart. Do you also think part of this season was Harper to me, Harper and Eric's relationship still, but especially these first three seasons was so much the backbone of the show that Harper in terms of Yaz and Rob

my interest in them was so much less than Harper. And I think what season three did is I'm like, oh, this is a show of three protagonists now. Yeah. where I'm interested in Harper, yes, and Rob in a way where it's like, if Eric and Rishi did take a little bit more of a backseat,

I'm like, oh, these three kids now have kind of graduated over the course of this where I'm like, oh, you guys can carry a season where maybe you're not all together

in a way where I'm like, in those first couple seasons, you did need an Eric as that backbone, as that mentor villain to really drive the narrative where I'm like, after this season, I'm like,

oh, all of them did kind of graduate from Pierpoint, like it was college. And now I do think all of those actors and those characters can really just have a show where I'm like, these three can be the central force of it, and I'm just as enraptured. Totally. Yeah, I totally agree.

I think, like, we trusted the process, you know, of, like, of sort of elevating these three to a kind of like all-on-Harper-level protagonist. and I think, or Antag, I don't know, I don't know what they are. And I think that it really worked. And I love that phone conversation between Harper and Yaz, these two absolute psychos, calling each other on the phone and being like, it's been a while. Can't remember the last time we talked.

I remember the last time you talked. It was in the kitchen saying the worst things I've ever heard. heard people say to each other. And to them, it's just like old pals reconnecting over a shared desire for proximity to power. Like, and that's the show. Friendships are made up.

Yeah, that's why I show up to this podcast every week. Hell yeah. Honestly, that's why I show up. I show up as well. Everybody knows that Kai Grady, our producer, is our Eric. You know, he's taking us out to state. We have called Kai every character. on this show. He does. Here's the thing. Kai, I've never seen a Swift in Ascent through the, through the halls of the, Kai is also a Harper. Kai is a fucking Harper to the court.

Kai is Sweet Pee and he always has been and he always will be. I don't know. The shit that Kai was said, Kai, Guy, where are you? What up guys? Kai, the Harper of the Ringer. How's it going? Are you about to completely destroy? Are you, are you taking the short on the guy? I see, yeah, I don't know about all that. But Harper was making some moves. So, I mean, I don't know. I'm trying not to make any deals with the devil, so I don't know about the Harper comp. Sweet P again, sweepie and Amraj. Those are my guys.

All right, you know what, Kai? I want to say thank you as we wrap up for all the hard work that you did. We're all going to be together on a team meeting soon. I will be checking all the bathroom stalls, you know? Don't pull a Harper. Take us with you, Kai. That's all I ask is when you ascend, take us with you. And by us, I mean, choose me over.

Charles. What? What? I didn't say that. You didn't hear that. We're going to offline about this. Thank you so much, Kai. Thank you so much Jody.

Thank you so much to the listeners. We love y'all. We've had a great season talking industry. And, yeah, we'll be back very, very soon.