The Prestige TV Podcast - 'Insecure' Season 4 Exit Survey

Episode Date: June 16, 2020

It was all going so well until Condola came along. We break down some things we did and didn't like from Season 4 of 'Insecure' and talk about what we want from Season 5. Hosts: Chris Ryan, Haley O'Shaughnessy, and Jordan Ligons Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to TV concierge. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com. This is the podcast where Ringer staffers help you navigate crowded landscape of television. And I'm joined today for some low-key potting by Jordan Liggins and Haley O'Shaughnessy. I can't think of anybody else I'd rather be talking about Insecure with.

Today is an exit survey. So sometimes on TV Concierge, we talk about shows that haven't come out yet. Sometimes we talk about shows mid-season. This one's the exit survey. We want to talk about the end of season four of Insecure. And let's start with you, Jordan. I want to just get some general impressions.

How did you feel about this season? This season, it was a little slow for me. I wanted it to rev up. I kept waiting for it. And then when I thought it was, the episode would be over. So I'm over the short episodes. But I think there was a lot of growth in this season, especially for Issa. I loved her kind of deflowering and really coming into who she was.

I think that was my favorite part of the whole season. Haley, what about you? Did you feel like the season was a little slow? Yeah, I did, but because there were so many wins in it that I don't think we've seen before, like you said, Issa really came into her own. The block party worked out. So many things worked out for different people. Molly, if you're excluding the finale, wasn't a healthy relationship for the first time on the show.

Issa was mature when she had to work with somebody who was dating her ex-boyfriend. And there was just a lot of like open communication and maturity and wins across the board that there weren't in past seasons, again, excluding the finale. Well, it turns out that, you know, for all the hashtags people put up about whether they were into Lawrence or Nathan or whatever, the central love story of the show is probably Simon Molly, right? And that was certainly one of the like storylines that I was probably most engaged with was the this sort of depiction of friendship that changes over time. So Haley, what did you think of the way that they kind of dramatized Molly and Nisa having a very realistic kind of like growing apart?

I did think it was really realistic, which is one of my favorite things about the show is it feels very authentic. Their characters do, their experiences do and their interactions do. And I thought the separation was a really natural thing that happens over time and friendships. They say that Molly and Issa met in college. And now they're late 20s, early 30s, I'm not even sure. But the showrunner, Prentice Penny during the show, as it was airing the finale, he said, he tweeted that they wanted to get Molly and Issa back together because that's a love story in the show, like you said. But it didn't feel like a relief to me. And I know that's what it was supposed to be. Like, oh, things with Lawrence might beat a shit and with Molly and Andrew they might have broken up.

So here's some relief. Here is Issa and Molly and they're finally going to be friends again like you've wanted all along. I don't really want that anymore. I mean personally, Molly seems very immature and toxic and something else that Penny said in an article a while ago was that the Molly backlash has gotten to be too much that people are overreacting. But I mean, that's just happened. And, you know, viewers saw this Molly character that I think they may be over dramatized in the way that she handled things.

And it just, it never really felt like she could handle anything correctly. So for me, I want Issa to be happy. And seeing them reconcile, I don't think was necessarily the thing that I was looking for. So you didn't like breathe a sigh of relief and give off like a little bit of a round of applause to that. No, because I think, yeah, they're going to have a problem next season as well. Jordan, do you agree? And I would also put to you the sort of galvanizing events

in both of their lives to bring them back together. I thought that they were like, so there were two separate relationships. There's, there's Issa and Lawrence and then there's Andrew and Molly. And I was trying to in my mind be like, does this feel earned, right?

Like, does this feel, especially, I kind of was like, the Andrew thing kind of felt like it came out of nowhere, but I think that was actually pretty good because if that was coming from Molly's POV, maybe she would be blind to Andrew's growing dissatisfaction, although it just did seem to take place from an after work drinks.

And then it was kind of about a Clippers game, but then it became about everything else. What did you think of the ways in which Issa and Molly's relationships kind of crumbling brought them back together? That was exactly why I didn't like it, was because it seemed like after everything was wrong in Molly's life, that she's like, oh, I need Issa. or let me at least try.

And just exactly what you were saying, Haley, what was holding them together was history and memories. And like, we've known each other for so long. So that's why we kind of have to still be friends instead of like a deep rooted love for each other. And Molly has a lot of stuff to work through. She needs all of the therapy sessions, all of them. Therapy is great and she needs it.

But I just, I don't know. I'm with you. I don't think it was earned at the end. I just don't think sitting down talking at an Ethiopian restaurant is going to solve all of the toxic things, the deep-rooted things that they said to each other that they meant. Friendships grow apart and just seems like they're going different ways. I just didn't like that she called her out for being messy all the time when it's like, you're her friend. You have to be there through the mess, through the glorifying times. I just didn't buy it.

And I'm not down for a whole other season of them trying to figure it out. I want it to either go their separate ways or they're good again. Do you think that the show can survive if Molly and Issa aren't friends? I think so. Yeah. I'm more interested in what is going to happen with Lawrence. And, you know, team Nathan or team Lawrence, I can't stand condola. I don't want her in the next season.

As people were saying, condola virus or canola oil, that's what they were calling her. I'm just like, why are you here? You're messing up something so great. So I'm more interested in that. I love Molly. I love the character and it's been fun. But if they grow apart, they grow apart. They've always said that in insecure.

They wanted to mimic real life. So if they grow apart, then let it be that. Haley, let's talk about Rise of the Fuck Boy, that Lawrence's return and his seemingly like, what a most improved season? And it was just like, he was on. his way to the MIP and then brick the front end of one and one in the finals. I was always, always very silently, team Lawrence, but not against team Issa when it was

team Lawrence versus team Daniel and then later team Nathan. I always wanted Lawrence. Because they had, you know, the history, but a happy history, not just like, you know, what we were saying with Molly Issa. I really was cheering for his comeback. I thought it had happened. I love myself, believe it. In the market when they were talking about him going to San Francisco, and he said, is that a deal breaker? I was fully prepared for Issa to say, yeah, it's a deal breaker, but I'm so glad that we ended this on good term. And then she didn't. She said, no, it's not a deal breaker.

I could even move. Maybe I should start over. And I was just like, wow, okay, I'm very satisfied right now. I don't want the show to ever end, but you could end the show and I'd be happy. But, you know, condolences. Do you feel like going moving forward that this, you know, opens up? I mean, do you think that Lawrence will be a part of this show if you had to guess? I mean, not even like on some off screen stuff where it's like, you know, whether or not he would be doing movies or doing it over TV.

But do you think that he still has a role in this in this world? Yeah, I think that's why this plot line took a turn. You know, maybe with the healing of Molly, it means that they have to open up a mess somewhere else. Right. So I think he has, he will have. now a prominent role. I don't think he'll go to San Francisco because he has a kid to raise. Everything has just been further complicated. But yeah, I think he's going to be a, don't you, Jordan? Yeah, I definitely think that. And I also have a question for you guys. Do you think that

Lawrence actually had a glow up? Did he actually grow or did he just get a lineup, like a haircut and new clothes? Do you feel like there's actually growth there? I don't know. I would just say that one of the things I like about this show is that sometimes it explores how those two things can be the same thing. Or one of those things can lead to real growth. You know what I mean? Because I think that we can only really control what we can control in life. And sometimes that's like putting on a better jacket. You know what I mean? Sometimes that's like going for a job interview outside of your comfort zone or whatever. And I like that this show is, it's such a strange mix of like real emotional candor and then also really daffy.

whimsical kind of like physical comedy and like oh no like is Vince Staples going to go on or not and like that kind of thing and and I thought that Lawrence's development was they did do it they think they did make it a little too good to be true like I feel like we all knew that something was going to come in the last episode I don't think I expected the double whammy do you guys expect to see Andrew next season Haley and sir with you do you expect to see Andrew next season. Hmm. That's interesting.

Probably not. I'm not sure, maybe, but also, like something had to go wrong with Lawrence, like now that Issa and Molly are presumably mending, I think. Probably not. I'm not sure. He seemed pretty fed up. Legit. I was on his side.

Totally. I agreed. Jordan, what do you think? Do you think we see any Andrew next season? I think we get an Andrew pop-up. Like, Nathan's still in the picture. so like his barbershop opening, Andrew comes, Molly's there type of thing. But I don't think he's in a relationship with Molly next season at all.

He had every right to be fed up. I saw that coming, probably like the second episode. I'm like, he's being too patient. He's bending over backwards. He is going, this is going to get old real quick. And just like from Molly's point of view, it seemed like a blind side because she's not self-aware. She doesn't really understand what she's doing to other people.

So she's like, whoa, where is this coming from? But we saw the buildup throughout the whole season. So I don't think he puts up with that anymore next season. There was this moment in the second episode where she called him and asked him to hang out. And he was like, yeah, let's go to the Summer Walker concert. And she was like, well, we can't talk at that. That was the sign for me. Yeah. Outside of the Isamali axis, Haley, start with you. Did you have a favorite character or a moment from this season that you wanted to highlight?

My favorite character will forever and always be Kelly. If it's a specific character to this season, it's probably going to be the security guard that you said was miss in the beginning. He was just so charming and fun. Blah, blah. Yeah, exactly. But it's definitely Kelly. It's always been Kelly for. me. My favorite moment this season with Kelly was at the block party when she was doing a British accent. Yes. With Amine, who was there as her not boyfriend, but guy that she was with. And she kept faking it for him because she faked it when they met. So she just has like a million of those moments every season. Jordan, what about you? She's so great. I was going to say the security guard. I thought that that was just a hilarious character to throw in. And then of course he pops up. on Issa and Lawrence's date.

Like, of course he walks in on that. That was just perfect. So I think everything about him was hilarious and just kind of that person that's just like lingering that you're like, gosh, I don't want to tell anybody about. Why do you even still exist? I love that. Let's do a wish list for next season whenever that winds up being, because I would imagine that in normal times, they would probably be at least in pre-production

for the next season, if not in production soon. But let's say we have one wish list. Is there anything that you would like to see the show either tackle or do in terms of the world that's created with the characters? Haley, we can start with you. If you're going to focus on female friendships, if you're going to call the female friendship the love story of this story, which, again, is not an uncommon thing. And I'm not shitting on the concept.

I think it's really important. You should make the friendship better. You should make it healthier for both people. I'm specifically talking about Issa and Molly because the group as a whole seems to really get along very well. But if you're going to focus on that, I hope that, like Jordan said, the drama between them is over or it's not just the constant passive aggressions like, you know, at the grocery store on Thanksgiving. It's just always some little thing. So if that's going to be the focus or if that's going to be the one thing that viewers can hold on to as a solid relationship, I hope that it's actually presented as strong and helpful for both. Right. Jordan?

That's a really great point. I really hope that too, because female friendships are important and we should see them healthier and not so like what is happening. I would kind of want to see Issa and Nathan be friends. Is that weird? No, I mean, it seems like they'll be working together in some capacity. Yeah, I think I want that to really work and not be weird. And I want Issa and Lawrence to be together. And then Issa have this really good friendship with Nathan and kind of be there for him. And yeah, I just think that would be really cool because I like looking at Nathan so I don't want him to go away. Can I just say, not a big deal.

Nobody asked me. Nathan might be too hot. They may have fucked up and just like cast a guy was just like, yeah, you know what? You can't really be in the same room of this dude. So it's just like when she was just sort of like, I'd like to be friends. I was like, you just come.

Come, I know. Seriously. I want to be friends with this guy. What are you talking about? So yeah, that's my only critique. Maybe just hire some more middling level guys. It was really great talking about season four with Haley and Jordan. This has been TV concierge.

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