The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Lost’ Hall of Fame: “The Constant”

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

In honor of the The Ringer’s Best TV Episodes of the Century list, Jo and Rob pick up the phone to revisit and induct the ‘Lost’ episode “The Constant” into the Prestige TV Hall of Fame. (0:00) Intro (25:19) Favorite characters (28:05) Best performances (28:31) Best line (31:48) Most iconic shot (32:40) Favorite underrecognized detail (33:19) Best moment (36:37) The runner-up pick Check out The Ringer’s list of The 100 Best TV Episodes of the Century! Email us! [e-mail] Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney Producers: Kai Grady and Donnie Beacham Jr. Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Restrictions apply. See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash term. Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm DeWeta Robinson. I'm Rob Mahoney. Previously on the Prestige TV podcast, we covered the West Wing two cathedrals, which was number 16 on the ringer.com's

100 best episodes of the Century list that they put up on the website. It's a great, great, great article list. You should read it. Today, we're going right to the top. Number one with the bullet. you already clicked on this episode so you probably know what it's about. We're here to talk about

an episode of Lost called The Constant. I would say this is a one for us, one for them situation, but they're all for us somehow. So, you know what? The constant yet again in the Ringers episode rankings is number one. I would like to thank whoever put their thumb

on the scale, cough, cough, Mallory Rubin to make such a thing happen. But I'm thrilled about it. I know that Mallory launched a full-scale attack the first time they did this list, in 2018 to make sure the constant was the top, but it didn't budge.

And I should say at the top, I think it's like the top four episodes are the same as the last time they made the list. So I think that sounds right, that like these are some unimpeachable four, that there's some recency bias elsewhere in the list. There's some succession that Rob objects to. There's some severance, which I have some questions about, et cetera, et cetera. But for the most part, there are episodes on there that it's like, we've known that these are. classics for a while. The haymakers have already been thrown and we have felt their impact for quite some time.

So yeah, like no one is disputing. I think even really the top 10 feel pretty unimpeachable in their respective ways. The order may vary depending on what show you prefer. But I think this one, Joe, well, here's the thing. I say that. And yet I know this is not your favorite episode of Lost. So maybe this would not be your inclusion. It wouldn't be my favorite episode of Lost.

But if I were to try to argue something to the top of a list to get consensus, I would pick the constant. This came out February 2008. This is the fifth episode of the fourth season to give you a little context about Lost, if you've never seen it. Don't laugh. I hadn't, and now I have.

I've come to your side of the aisle. Welcome. A bunch of people crash land on an island. That happens right at the beginning, so don't worry about it. A lot of mysteries ensued. The season four is the freighter season. Something that I think is maybe even more interesting

then the plot, which I will get to in a second, is what this season meant in terms of changing up the end game of loss, because the first three seasons were typical seasons of television at the time, meaning they launched in the fall, and they concluded in the spring. There were hiatuses and so like that. We're running about 22 episodes per season thereabouts. Season four is a shorter season. It starts midway through the year, January, and so we are like high octane lost for the fourth, fifth, and sixth season. of the show. A lot of people really love the fourth season. The third season has some wobbles to it, especially the beginning of the third season,

but the fourth season is very popular one. And a lot of the reason for that is Season 4, Episode 5, The Constant, in which two characters that we know and love, Saeed and Desmond, take a chopper to the mysterious freighter that is parked

at a very specific direction offshore of the island. The freighter has been responsible for bringing new people to the island. New characters are here on the island. We don't know who sent the freighter. We don't know what the intention of these freighter people is.

And so, Said and Desmond are going to the freighter to get answers. That's what Desmond says, right? Answers. Does this boat belong to his girlfriend, Penny? Charlie says no. So whose boat is this? Why are we here?

Instead of getting a lot of those answers, we quickly enter into an unstuck in time, timey-wimie premise of an episode where Desmond Hume, who has always had weird time stuff surrounding him, premonitions, all the sort of stuff on the show, his consciousness from eight years in the past gets sort of unstuck in time and inside of his present body. So we're flashing back and forth. Wow, explaining the premise of the constant is difficult. Between 1996 and 2004. I think Damon Lindolph would agree with you.

I think many people have struggled to explain the premise of this episode. But the point is, there's a ticking clock. His consciousness has come unstuck. And if we don't figure out why or how or how to fix it, Desmond Hume, cherished lost character, is not going to survive the hour. So how do we solve it? Spoiler alert, we do solve it. and it culminates in, as Lindelof properties often do,

a very emotional and romantic conversation between Penelope Woodmore, the long-awaited Penelope Woodmore, and Desmond Hume. Penny, you answered. You answered Penn. And this very high concept, yet emotionally resonant episode television, has become what many consider one of the best episodes of sci-fi

or otherwise episodes of television, ever and certainly the best episode of Lost ever. Rob, having recently watched through all of Lost, how did you feel when you hit the constant and did it

live up to his reputation? It somehow lived up to and exceeded all of the hype. And I say that, again, knowing that it was the number one episode on our list at the website for quite some time even before this recent update. And so getting to experience it and live with it. And I think most crucially,

get kind of pulled into its gravity is just a really singular experience. I think you laid it out really well, Joe, that the whole season is built up to like freighter, freighter, freighter, freighter, how do we get there? Who's coming off of it? What can it do for us?

Who owns it? And then you do have some bits of information doled out within the constant as far as like who is on the freighter and what its purpose kind of might be. Like we are learning things, but those things are strapped to an emotional rocket ship that's just taking us so far in the opposite direction

that you almost don't care anymore. So, like, that kind of side of hand, I'm always fascinated by. And to do it with emotions leading first, I think, is really what makes the best version of loss, the best version of lost. Something that, as I'm fond of doing, I will quote Dana Lindeloff a couple times here. And I will say that one thing he said about the introduction of Desmond, which happens at the beginning of season two, after a season of Hatch, Hatch, What's in the Hatch, What's in the Hatch, Hatch, what's in the Hatch. It's Desmond Hume. It's a guy. Something that Damon Lidloff said then, and I've repeated a million times in various podcasts,

is the greatest answer to a mystery is a person, right? So the greatest answer to what's in the hash is it's a guy. Desmond Hume. He's just having smoothies and getting on the exercise bike and injecting himself with stuff. So, like, the greatest answer to the mystery inside this episode is, like, the constant is the title of the episode. This episode coins a concept. What is my constant that becomes a cultural touch point going forward?

the fact that what is Desmond's constant and it's a person, it's Penny, it's the love of his life, it's love, it's faith, it's a woman probably ill-advisedly saying she'll wait eight years for a guy to call her. Look, when your psycho ex-boyfriend shows up and is like, I need you to give me your phone number to not talk to you for eight years, you just have to listen to what he says. Yeah, you just got to have some faith. And faith. Faith. Like, faith is very important here. Absolutely.

had to believe that Penny would not change her number for eight years, which is not something that happened that often in that era of telephone numbers, landlines, would be home when he called her, would answer, and she had to have faith that he would call her in eight years, like he said he would. So there's all of that in play. Also, something that Lidlough has said about the specific episode is that this is, similar to what we discussed with West Wing, where that West Wing episode that we talked about in the previous installment of

this top 100 episodes of the century exploration was Aaron Sorkin's solving for a cast member, potentially departing the show. Right. This is Damon Lindelof saying that he's solving for, how boring will it be if we just take characters of the freighter and they just ask, what's that? What does that do? Why are you here? Who are you?

He's like, he called it, quote, mindless exposition. You just have mindless exposition if you didn't have this constant state of constant, no pun intended, state of crisis, a ticking clock. on our character. And again, like the West Wing episode, which starts with, there's going to be a press conference, you should watch it.

We get the ticking clock of Oscar winner, Fisher Stevens. He won for a documentary, but I count it anyway. Fisher Stevens, Oscar winner Fisher Stevens, Asman Kowski, who is the ticking clock. What is happening to him,

he's jumping through time, his nose is bleeding, like he's on Stranger Things, and he dies. And if we don't figure out what's going on with Desmond, that's going to happen. Desmond literally says that. Like, what's going to happen to him, you know, it's going to happen to me. So, like, all of that, like, tension just propels you through this episode every time you're watching it.

I mean, the flow of it is incredible, Joe. And this is as we're jumping back and forth through time, which usually brings a lot of shows and movies to a halt, right? As you're trying to balance these various timelines, this feels down. pretty much the whole way. You know, you're on the chopper. Desmond is starting to slip out of his reality into this other one, temporally speaking. And I think all this is a credit to the way that the episode is written for sure, like structurally speaking, a very impressive episode. Also the way it's edited. Like, just all of those jumps are super smooth and super seamless. And you never feel like you're being pulled out of the story. You feel like you're being yanked forward into the next stage of it,

which I think is so important for something like this. And the pace feels like it's just accelerating. Like the flashes are getting faster. We feel that ticking clock. I mean, the stakes could not be laid out more simply. And in doing so, you have all this emotional heft. You have the natural kind of mechanism of the structure of the episode that we're talking about. And then you have the fact that Desmond is getting pulled between timelines like mid-sentence makes the whole thing feel like there's this tension, there's this edge. Like you could get pulled back or forward at any point in time. Like, You're just kind of suspended in that state for the entirety of the episode. And it's an exhilarating experience.

I think you're so right to call out the editing. Initially, I know when they were going to make this episode, they were going to do sort of like fancier tricks to deniate between time periods. They were going to do a sound effect or like a wipe or something like that. All you need is a beard. Like it's okay. Well, they have a couple things going for them, which we'll talk about in a second. But they decided to go with this, yeah, this like mid-sentence, Desmond is off.

and falling over when he lands in a given time period or something like that. And so I love that. And I love that down to the wire, this was an argument they were having in the editing room. This is the right answer. Jack Bender directed this episode. Jack Bender is like an absolute iconic lost director. And he also directed the door episode of Game of Thrones.

They're like, get me the constant guy to do the door for Game of Thrones. You know, you could do a lot worse. No fucking shit, right? So the concept has been sort of imitated but never quite recreated in a lot of other shows. But I just think that the emotionality of the show, the stakes on Desmond, where did you come out of the end of the series?

Where does Desmond rake among your favorite characters? I love Desmond in the bulk of the middle of the show. You know, from his arrival, and then once they kind of figure out what they want to do with him in this larger cosmic romantic sense. Like, that's extremely my stuff. The Desmond Penny stuff always worked for me. Yeah, you love a urine.

I love a urine. By the end, I mean, Penny is barely part of the show at all. And Desmond, by extension, is kind of a shadow of his former self. So I think in the later seasons, he just doesn't have a lot to do. But in this kind of crux of it, I mean, he's the beating heart of the show in a lot of ways. Like, he is kind of the emotional center of so much of what Lost is striving for. We were talking when Chris Ryan joined us on House of Our for our Dunkirk episode, he was talking about how the Nolan body of work at large is like this idea of trying to get home.

And how that like echoes across so many different stories that Nolan has told and how the Odyssey is just sort of like the classic version of that. And of course Penelope Widmore is named for Penelope Odysseus's wife and the Odyssey. but that idea of like everyone wants to get home but like Desmond really wants to get home sort of like has a because like everyone wants to get home well that's not true there's like John Locke definitely wants to stay there people want to get home

your Cates and whatnot it's complicated you know plenty of people are running from things and a lot of those flashbacks have been like this is the reason why I didn't want to be home and a lot of Desmond's storyline is like this is what I fumbled and have another maybe another chance at. The idea of like,

I love Said being sort of his guardian on this journey. We also have to say just like a wingman for all times, Said in this episode. You know, I don't even need any answer any questions. I'll fix the radio. Sure, man. Like, whatever you say, I'm just here. Well, this is the thing.

Like, Sayy's a physical threat. So, like, if it physically comes down to something, like, Saeed will snap your neck with his thighs if he has to or whatever. He's a tech whiz. So when you need to fix the radio, it's good that Saeed is here. And then he's also a compassionate urner. Like, talk about people carrying around photos of people, like Nadia, you know.

But, like, the idea that, like, Said has a photo of Nadia and Desmond has a photo of himself and Penelope Penny. It's like there's something else there was just like, I just missed my chance for no reason. And maybe I can make that happen again. And so many of these people miss their. chance and there's no way they can go back and fix and write that wrong. But like Desmond could, maybe, if he can figure out how to get home. That distinction is so important, right? It's not like the life you could have had. It's the life you had and fumbled. And I think that's where the whole crux of this episode is, and Desmond's fate ultimately is can this guy get Penny's phone number

again? Like that's really the whole thing. Like can he get, can he ask her for her phone number again and would she give it to him? And loss turns that into a matter of life and death, basically, through ultimately like the magic of the show. And that works because it is tugging at exactly what you're isolating, Joe, which is like this very single question that all of us deal with in our own way, is it too late to undo the damage I've done? Like, is it too late to walk back the thing I always wished I could walk back?

Yeah. And maybe it's not. Like, maybe all you have to do is call her. Maybe all you have to do is wait. And, like, putting the show in that place and hanging this much on it, I have so much admiration for the gall of that and ultimately how just wildly successful it is. I think too, I really agree, and I was beautifully put,

and I think to go back to the question of like where does Desmond rank in your character rankings, ultimately, if you ask a lot of people, Desmond is like right at the top of the list for a lot of people. And I think it's off the back of something like the constant because his story fizzles so hard in season five and six. And his, like, he just, like, absolutely

careens into one of the most, like, ineffective endings for a character as ever, which happens to a lot of great characters on Lost. Unfortunately, so. I will defend the finale, but I won't defend everything that happens in the final season of Lost. The road to the finale is a little, a little murky. Desmondo's, like, two seasons of, like, arched out, you know what I mean? But he remains a lot of people's favorites, and that's just off the strength of these, like, middle seasons here.

It really is like a handle of like a handful of episodes. I think the very Desmond episodes. And we should also talk about, I think, the way that the constant sort of weaponizes the idea of what a Desmond episode is. It's like, oh, you want a flashback backstory for this guy? Like make his entire existence depend on his ability to navigate it. It's such like a smart idea to kind of twist the concept. But I love flashes before your eyes too, which is the other like heavy Desmond Penny backstory episode. And it's all very mechanical.

It's all very timey-wimey, and I don't think, I think the show does a really nice job in all of these Desmond instances especially of not shying away from what it is. Like, we are not apologizing for being a time travel, premonition, like, sci-fi show.

We're going to use those genre elements to supercharge the most human qualities of the stories we're trying to tell. And that's when you get, ultimately, like, in the constant, what is just like a great romance period, point blank, and just a masterwork of, sci-fi story-telling at the same time.

And how, I think about this all the time, when I think about David's work and his, the way he uses time and distance to tell these love stories and how, like, the waiting, like, gives weight to something, that yearn sort of factor. We talk about it a lot. We talk about the leftovers. and it echoes across other people's storylines inside of Lost, but like this, Desmond and Penny is just sort of like the apex mountain of this.

But I think that to go back to our Nolan rewatches, I don't know why this is on my mind so much, but when we covered Inception on House of R, we were talking about the way in which the various levels of the dreamscape in Inception, how the weather changes or, so you can orient yourself. You always know where you are. It's snowing.

It's raining. It's this, that. There's no gravity here, et cetera. So thinking about, like, the way they use rain in the flashbacks of,

you know, the beard is doing a lot of work. I got to say, there's some bad flashbacks wigs on loss. Not this one. No, this works great. Is it very good.

Faradays we can talk about. But Desmond's is top tier work. Really good. So the haircut's doing a lot of work. The lack of beer is doing a lot of work. But the fact that, like, yeah, we're flashing into rain.

or in the case of that absolute psychopath, Charles Widmore, who walks out of a room leaving the sink running. I guess it's just like a fuck-you power move. I don't know. Turn off my sink boy, but like we still get water running in that flashback. So the way in which they use these various visual cues to orient us in time is really helpful. See, I was going to zero in on that from my under-recognized detail because ultimately, like, look, This is, I would argue, one of the most scrutinized episodes of television that's ever been created, right?

It's so beloved. People have looked it up and down, like, yeah, we can go on and on about, like, Tavar Hanzo or whatever. But, like, there's nothing that I could tell you that, like, a Lostapedia entry could not. I think ultimately, like, the Charles Widmore thing, though, like, that kind of storytelling really speaks to me. Because you're right. It is, like, a power move from a guy who's, like, intentionally trying to be a dick and treating Desmond like he's an attendant. it's also the time marker because then you see the water filling the sink. It's also the transition point because you have Desmond reaching for the handle for the sink.

So it's like the fact that you're getting all of that out of this one tiny little turn. Yeah. Incredible economy within this episode. How much ground you cover within 40-odd minutes is I think really remarkable. That's what's astounding about watching both this and the West Wing episode that we talked about before where it's just like they had so little time.

And this is, you know, in contrast, I would say to the West Wing episode that we talked about, I think you could show the constant to someone in isolation. I think so. Because Desmond is so disoriented, then we, the audience, know as much as he does about what's going on. And so that puts us on the same foot as he is. And I think also, to your point,

because we're making the flashback premise, the text, everyone knows he's flashing back in time, then you don't need to have watched. It helps certainly to know who Penny is, but like, we get it. He's got our photo with him, like all this or something like that. I think you can watch the constant in isolation and understand why it's so special. And I think it works out of, and it is very much an anomaly episode. This is one that really stands out as like a big swing that they took.

And they will take bigger and bigger swings when it comes to time. travel when it comes to stretching our understanding of what a flashback is, et cetera, et cetera, going forward. But this is a real moment in an absolutely incredible television show that captivated millions upon millions of people. Very much so.

Joe, I have one very important question I would like to ask you before we move on. Please, Rob. Is the constant of Christmas episode? Yes. Okay. I just want to clear it up. I want to make it very simple for all of us.

You mentioned that you had, you were like, you contemplated listening to the episode of the Lost Pot, rewatch podcast that he did The Storm. And then you saw it was three hours and you're like, maybe not. Maybe I don't have three hours to listen to. I would love to. Maybe in the future I will. Most of those episodes are not three hours, I should say. It's just, it was the constant. So we went very, very house of our length long.

But in that episode, we definitely talked about how Christmas. see Penny's houses. And then we just started calling her Christmas Penny and I don't think we stopped calling her Christmas penny until she's very Christmas coded. I'm going to be honest. And also like Desmond showing up at her place is not not Andrew Lincoln and Love Actually.

Like there's a lot of overlap happening. We're doing Love Actually, but we're also doing a Christmas Carol and we're also doing an episode of Star Trek. Like there are things that you know, this feels like a very innovative fresh. This is a template so many people tried to copy ever after, but it is standing on the shoulders

of, you know, Dickens and Picard, two of the all-time grades. So, what do you have to say? Oh. I'm more of a Picard guy personally, but what can you do? By the way, I was informed on social media that you said you have read a number of Charles Dickens novels and they're not for you.

Joanna, I was in a quality public school system. Like, I have read some Charles Dickens books. I don't know if you saw my response, but I said, I absolutely believe you read it in school. So, like, that's what I said. It's accurate, you know. So which Charles Dickens' books, not a fan of fiction yourself, but which Charles Dickens' books were you forced to read in school?

Christmas Carol, Tale of Two Cities, Great Expectations. Great. And you're like, not for me. Not for me. Wow. Absolutely not. Great expectations were the all-time great pieces of fiction. You're like, it's whatever.

Yeah, I got you. Okay. How do you feel about the use of Jack inside of this episode? Fine. I feel good about the use of Jack in this episode. Reduce to what's going on, guy. He often needs to be the what's going on guy. I mean, somebody's got to do it. I thought relaying that quote from Lindelof was great

about kind of how you fix the exposition problem that you need. You need to get through a lot in an episode like this and making it so candy-coded in this time travel way and really orienting a lot of that stuff through Daniel Faraday really, really clicks. I am glad though, personally speaking, that we do get a little Juliet moment of the like, if you talk really, really slowly,

you know, maybe we'll be able to understand what you're talking about, so we salute our queen. One of my most, like, confident opinions was that you were going to love Juliet when you watched us. Do people not? Is she not a... No, people like her, but I don't think... But some people, like, love Julietette.

And I was like, Rob's going to be a Juliet guy. The character power rankings are so tough, in part because of the Desmond problem we talked about before, where there's just like certain parts of the story where I love that I love Said here but by the end is he even Saeed Spoiler alert he's not

But Juliet is one of the I think uniformly For the time that she is on the show Pretty consistently amazing Do you have like Was your number one character coming out of Lost? I think I'm a Sawyer guy I don't know what that says about me

Like a shockingly basic opinion for you Rob Honestly look I'm sorry Like what would the controversial opinion be. Well, there's plenty of bad controversial opinions. I don't know. That's fine. But Sawyer is a great answer. He's a great guy. I would say my big three. Yes.

Juliet, Sawyer, Ben Linus. Those are the three for me. Iconic. Hard to go wrong with any of them. And Frank Lepetus. Daniel Faraday is really high up my character. He's really great. I love Jeremy Davies, whether he's on justified or lost. I think he's wonderful.

As Daniel Faraday, his vague his mumbling, his stammering, his every, his tie that he wears all across his treks on the island. Flashback wig, nonwithstanding, the very, like, Marty McFly coming to tell Doc Brown that he invented time travel, like, aspect of their interactions works really well. And then, of course, the end of the episode that, like, if anything happens, Desmond He will be my constant. I have, do have some, I've always had some questions about this, because what Daniel Faraday says to Desmond Hume is, like, you got to pick something that matters so much to you.

More than any, it's just like really emotionally impactful to you and exists in both timelines. And I'm like, oh, is that how you feel about Desmond Hume? I mean, no, no judgment, Daniel Faradam. You met the guy once. So you like, wow. Who among us, though? This is my penny is Desmond Hume. Well, here's the thing, Joey.

If someone showed up and said, I am a time traveler from the future and I am here to relay to you specific information about yourself, would that not be basically one of the most important days of your entire life. It's true. It's true. Also, Eloise died, so there's a lot to think about here. I also think, as far as the Faraday part of this, like, he represents one of my favorite things about loss, which is the overall

whatever happened happened explanation of time travel within this show. So, like, very simple, very elegant. It, like, answers a lot without actually answering anything, which is a very Daniel Faraday thing to do. I also think his presence within the show, especially at this

point, is so welcome. Because you're Right, he is a little ambiguous and, like, clearly hiding some things, but he wants to tell people so bad what's going on. Like, there's finally a character on the show who's like, I really would love to tell you about this time vortex that exists around this island. And there's reasons why I'm not being 100% forthcoming, but I appreciate the eagerness. And that's why Daniel Faraday doesn't work as well as he does without Charlotte.

Charlotte, not one of my favorite characters, but you need Charlotte there to be like, Dan, shut up. so he can not tell them all the information at once. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch.

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Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. Best performance of the episode. I mean, it's Henry and Cusick is Desmond. That being said. Yes.

Sonia Wallier only has like a few minutes to get us to feel the same amount that he is. has made us feel. It's a great point. This is a great point at a compelling take. And she, I mean,

she's batting a vows in this episode. She's very good. But, I mean, I'm not going to take it away from Henry. This is his episode. Best line of the episode. For me, it's a little more elaborate

than one line. And it's the sort of like interlocking promises that Desmond and Penny are trying to eke out to each other before the phone cuts off. How much of a crier are you when you watch television?

I'm more of a well. You know, like if it gets me, I start to feel it. You know, I'm not, I'm not full on waterworks, but, you know, I am but a human being. And this is an episode that absolutely gets me. I think that, I mean, the call at the end for sure, but also when he shows up at her house to ask for the phone number, like both of those sequences, just really needle something for me. I have watched this episode so many times.

And yet it still makes me cry when I, watch it. And I... It's very powerful. I was watching it. You know, my houseway walks in and she's like... She's like, this is the fucking constant? I was like, yeah.

She left the room, but she walked in right towards the end of the episode and she started here at the beginning of it. She's like, what is happening? She like came running back in so that she can like be there for the phone call. She is living in a time loop where the constant just keeps coming out and over and over. She's like, oh, it's happening right now. Yeah, I would say... Penny you answered, you answered Penny is like, I think about that all the time.

But what I like of that is like a bucket. Like we talked about with the West Wing episode when Leo's like, there's a press conference tonight, you're going to want to watch it and then watch this. At the beginning of the episode, Syed says, what are you hoping to get? It does what says answers. And then it ends with Penny, you answered, you answered Penny, which is not the answer she's talking about. But it's like an important answer from the universe.

Lost, when we think about that. the deities that exist in the world of lost. They are very unkind. And then sometimes they're kind. And this is a moment when, you know, whatever hand of God you want to call fate, faith, etc. Penny, you answered, you answered Penny. You need the unkind for this episode to work.

Like a part of the reason I think the overall engine of like, oh, this is happening to you too and we're seeing Desmond have to wrangle with. the nose bleed and kind of how fast this is all accelerating. The reason you buy it is because of what happens to Charlie and what happens to Shannon and what happens to Libby and Echo and Honolusia. Like, you can go on down the line. Like, we've seen the costs of these things. Your favorite.

Your guy, Boone. No comment on Boone. Some losses are more acceptable than others. But you buy it because of all of that backgrounding. And so then when you do get the sweet, sweet satisfaction of the one day where things work. Yeah. it's an incredibly powerful and moving thing. And that's why, like, in addition to the lines that we're talking about,

I think that, like, it was enough after he does kind of stabilize is really, really great. Yeah. There isn't really a needle drop in this episode. No. I mean, the whole score is really great. And the score for the phone call in particular is just slow-billed, absolute king shit in terms of orchestrating that moment. Chikino, who knew? We knew.

iconic image slash shot composition. If you'll forgive me for being basic again, Joe, it's just the red phone. It's how red the phone is. Honestly, I was going to say the same thing. It's like that image, it's similar to like thinking about Bartlett alone at the cathedral. Yeah. Like you see Henry and Cusick with a red phone plastered to the side of his face and that means something to you. So, yeah, it is.

And also like the way that scene is shot and how tight it's framed, right? this is like very extreme close up for him. There is, there is nowhere to go. That moment either works or it doesn't based on what he is selling and how he's welling up. And like,

I think Henry and Cusick comes through with just like some of the best phone acting you're going to see just about anywhere. His desperation, you know, and he has been playing desperation. For sure. For seasons now. Favorite underrecognized detail?

You said that this is the sink for you? I mean, if that counts, but again, detail on the show. Of the constant. I will just say, I just don't think we talk about it enough. The fact that Daniel Faraday named his lab rat after his mom, his lab rat that he is like ready to kill after his mom,

Eloise, is pretty great stuff. Daddy issues last pod, mommy issues this pod. What's new under the sun? Exactly. All right. You're right. I mean, this is the thing. Okay. What is two cathedrals without the scene where Jed Bartlett is in the church cursing out God. And what is this episode without the phone call? Because best moment scene also has to be the phone call. It's just the phone call.

You know, and it's just like a minute? I don't know how much... I'm sure I've done the count before, but I didn't do it for this podcast. But like, it's a minute. Two minutes, maybe, max. And it's just some of the most important television you've ever seen.

It's just astonishing stuff. So... It's completely crucial. And again, this is, you know, we were talking about the West Wing, we're commenting on, like, do these episodes have the same power when you know what's coming,

when you know this character survives, whatever it is, I still hold my breath when he's asking for her phone number two. So it's like, again, those two scenes, they can't exist without each other. They really are the two tent poles

in terms of propping this thing up. And again, I agree with you, the moment has to be the call at the end, but there's so much I love about him begging her in a way that, you know,

like, there is more than a little bit of Kevin and Nora in them. Like the personality types are different, but particularly this idea of belief as an act of love, right? Like there are things that we accept and we are willing to accept, even though they seem impossible, and we do it because we love the person that they're coming from. And so, yeah, like your ex-boyfriend shows up

and asks you this thing that does not make any sense whatsoever and says he will not talk to you for the next eight years, and you still clear your schedule on Christmas Eve 2004. Like, it's just what you do. because of how tied you are to each other. And so foregrounding all of that in the conversation about the number in the first place, and specifically the idea that it is a phone number,

like the symmetry of I'm going to reignite my relationship by asking for the thing that starts a relationship. It's just beautiful stuff. You got those digits. I did. I also think on this rewatch, the moment that I rewound several times to sort of take it in,

is the moment when Desmond is in the past walking away she has closed the curtain on him you hear the ringing in the present and then he gets his little smile on his face because somehow through time he knows that she answered how does that work like what kind of paradoxes that create in the sort of Desmond whatever happened happened timeline I don't know what to tell you but

but that little smile like means a lot to me It really, it's really good. Let me tell you, I don't care how it works. I just know that it does. And this is another thing that I think Lost really understands about this sort of storytelling. It's like, there's a scene, for example, in this episode where they're all locked in the infirmary and then suddenly they're not locked in the infirmary. And it's like you do not let the detail get in the way of the good story. And frankly, like the idea that the locked room isn't the important part, like the door being open is a better mystery than the locked.

door is a puzzle. And so you're able to kind of have it both ways if you just open the door. And then you know why later. But like, but this is a sort of like, you've got a tomorrow problem. You've got a guardian angel on this ship or whatever. And so that all feeds into this like mythology of God is smiling on Desmond this day. You know, and then later you're like, actually, that's just Michael. But, you know, it's like, what would the runner up episode be if it weren't this episode? So when we had the opportunity to do a lot of, lost Hall of Fame episode on this feed. Previously, Mallory and I chose through the Looking Glass, which is the season three finale with the aforementioned, but very deeply

connected because Charlie, not Penny's boat, all of that iconography comes from that episode. Also, we have to go back, comes from that episode. Like, that is just an absolute banger of a season finale sort of feeling. What I like about this episode is this is episode five. It's not a premiere and it's not a finale. It's episode five of a season. So I think that's interesting, but any runners-up that you have in mind? I think this is one of the harder ones to peg just because there's so many different versions

of what a great lost episode is. And like, case in point, this one, which is structurally unlike almost any other episode, and yet it's wonderful for that reason. I mean, preceding through the looking class, greatest hits is so good. And I say that as somebody who does not care about Charlie that much. I know, I know. And I'm still just

like, I am captivated by what they're able to do within the, like, of that episode in making you care about a character who had some frustrating storylines through the earlier seasons. So, like, I would think about that one, and at the risk of pandering, like, Trisha Tanaka is dead

is sitting right there. You know, it's just right there. It's funny, it's sad, it's ultimately quite ecstatic. Like, I'm here for everything that it's bringing to the table. I'll take the pander. I'll take the pander of Trisha Tanaka is dead.

One all-time lost episode. Also, given that you're a Juliet and Sawyer guy, LaFleur, is also one of my could have been LaFleur episodes. That's another sort of like love story told over time, this idea of like characters who have like a spark, but then due to time travel shenanigans, all of a sudden we are like knee deep in a relationship that matters and that it is convincing. And all of that is just very important when we will.

It's so good. Yeah. We had it. We really had it there for a moment. We did. And then it was just ripped from our, ripped from our fingers. It was. But as a Juliette guy, I also, I love Not in Portland, which is like the proper, yes, the proper Juliet flashback episode.

Oh, you're right. Sorry, the other woman is the next. Yes. This is like season three, I think I want to say. Like, it's the full, like, backstory on how she gets to the island effectively. Yeah, yeah. And I think the most effective, like, single episode backstory that any character gets. Like, we get it parceled out in all sorts of ways throughout the show for all.

kinds of characters in effective ways. But this is the episode that made me, like made Juliet one of my favorite characters on the show. And so, like, that's a powerful thing for one episode. Anything else you want to say? I know people were really excited to hear your Lost takes. So anything else you want to say about your journey through Lost that you had a couple months ago?

We should say Rob was very ill when he did this. That is quite ill. He's usually too busy to binge an entire television show in a few weeks. It's not like a habit of it. But in this case, look, I'm glad that I did. And even given that I was that ill, I really

miss it. Like, I just miss the presence it kind of had in my life, even as I was, like, battling pneumonia, basically, which I think speaks to how effective and singular it is. And, I mean, I miss the cast. I miss obviously the mystery of it, the presence of that kind of time

and ride. And I find, I have found since that it's just like an incredibly difficult void to fill. Like, This show creates such like an emotional crater. And I think part of it is honestly like the satisfaction of like all of these interlocking parts across the story, right? The cast is so huge. They're bumping into each other, past, present and future, also afterlife, also flash whatever direction you prefer. The ambition of a show like this is just like beyond questioning.

And so at a time where I'm constantly watching things and being like, was this filmed on the volume? is this a cast of actually three people and they're just like trying to round it out. A huge ensemble with this kind of scale and this much to say, we never had it so good, frankly. And I look forward to the rewatch. I've only had a chance to actually revisit episodes

like the constant a handful of times. So like my lost journey is only beginning, Joe. That's very exciting to hear. Something I like to think about, Rob, when I think about getting to podcast with you over the last couple years and before we started podcasting together on this feed, you weren't really like a,

like full-time dedicated, like TV commenter, a critic, anything like that. So, no. How important something like lost is as a skeleton key to understanding a lot of television that came after it and how, I mean, people say all the time when they're like, how can you do this

and you guys haven't seen the Sopranos? I understand Sopranos is also a skeleton key like this, but. We're going to get there. It's okay. But Lost is like, it just echoes through all the television storytelling that follows it. And there are not just in, there were just a number of like cheap-ass knockoffs of loss that just like sprouted up and didn't last a season that happened around the show. ABC was constantly like, what if we did this premise?

What if we did this premise? We can recapture the magic. But you can't go back. Damn, shots at flash forward or whatever, you know. I'm literally thinking about flash forward, which I believe also starred Sonia Walger's, so... Wow. Sorry, Penny.

But, yeah, not just that, but you just find it cropping up everywhere. I think it absolutely deserves to be at the top of this list. Is there anything... Again, we respect our ringer colleagues and everything they decided to rank. Is there anything else you would have put at the top of this list, if not the constant? I'll just read the top Maybe the top 10

I'll do the top 10 okay So we have number one is the constant I'm doing it in controversial reverse order That is just what is easiest for me to do Number two is the suitcase Mad Men Number three Reins of Castamere Game of Thrones Number four who goes there

True Detective season one episode four That's the one with the oneer That one one That one episode, the True Detective one really feels like a holdover from 2018. Like, I don't think it would... You don't think it deserves to be there. No, I'm not saying that.

I don't think it would have occurred to anyone to try to put it that high on the list if they were just making the list from scratch in 2025. Like, it's a hard episode to boot, but I don't think it's an episode we talk about the way we talk about some of these other episodes. I think that's fair. Unlike, number five, Pine Barrens is the Prano's season three episode,

which I know is an absolute iconic one. If we've heard of it, you know that it's a big episode of Sopranos. Number six, Osamandias, a Breaking Bad one we would have done if we hadn't done it already on this feed. We already did a Hall of Fame for Osamandias. Number seven is the Chappelle's show episode, which I love that that's here in the top ten. I think that's great. Number eight, Conner's Wedding Succession, which you had a strong objection to. It's not what I would have picked as the Succession episode, but you didn't think Succession Belonged in the Top Ten.

Should I not call you out like that? Oh, no. You can absolutely call me out on it. I like, don't love Succession. And so the idea of it as a top 10 pantheon show, even within the single episode parameters here. I just don't see it as that kind of show. Okay. Number nine is Middle Ground, an episode of The Wire from season three.

I believe it's the O'Mar episode, probably. And number 10 is an episode of Survivor, the Final Four from the first season. So that's the top 10. Watchmen just out of the top 10, the OC pilot, a severance episode, episode of Andor, et cetera, et cetera, Gray's Anatomy. So like, and then we get to two cathedrals West Wing,

the one we decided to do. So is there anything that you would, like, vehemently want to boot off the list? Not against, because this is a consensus vote. So this is like, you know, whatever. We're not taking shots at anyone who made this list. But, like, anything you're like, I don't think it's belong here,

or anything where you're like, where is this representative? higher. It's less the booting and more to me Fleabag came in at number 60. And this is the season two finale of Fleabag again just like

had a bigger effect on me than the vast majority of episodes that came in the top 25. And so the idea that it would be at 60 I find a little challenging but look this is a broad vote. Everything is going to happen for everyone a little differently. When I'm thinking about what I want in those top

spots, I want the indelible mark shows. I want the before and after. And I think Raines of Casimir is another great example of like whatever you think about where Game of Thrones goes. That was a moment. Not just a moment in culture, but like a moment that changes the way you watch anything, what you look for. I mean, I just have the national version of Raines of Casimir playing in my head

nonstop. That's just a thing that's happening in the back of my brain all the time. I think that, I think when you, you coins. Like I was saying about the idea of the constant, which has a great echo later in the series with the variable. But the idea of like, which I guess, I think on Friends, the concept of the lobster predates the constant, but it's the same thing. It's like, you're soulmate, essentially, my constant. Sure. Don't shake your head at me.

I will shake my head at Friends all day, every day, Joe. Friends is nowhere near the top of this list. But I think that coining that and then like the red wedding. This is this show's red wedding episode, of course. Like you have to honor the original. I will say, just got to be myself. Please. And say two things.

Number one. Bloody Harland, season two, episode 13 of Justified, number 26, way too low. Way too low for that episode of Justified, a perfect episode caper of a perfect season of television. Yes. Yes. And then the Buffy episode is not the Buffy episode I would have picked, personally. Well, what is the one you would pick? So they picked ones more with feeling.

They did. I mean, if I had to pick one of the like consensus episodes. You don't. Spoiler alert, you don't. I'm talking to you, Joanna Robinson, not a better time. Spokesperson for the consensus. I would have a better time with the body being here or with Hush being here than I than I would with Once More Feeling being here.

My favorites are earlier in seasons two and three, but Hush and the body and Once More The Feeling are the top, the three all-timers that people talk about. And I just would have picked, probably would have picked Hush, actually, just for how conceptually audacious it was to do. I go around that, I mean, I was going to say a circle, but I guess triangle, just like all day every day, depending on the day of the week, my mood.

I think right now I'm in more of a the body space and in particular it's like the way that that particular Mac truck of story hits several different characters in it to the point that they don't even know what to do with themselves is just something I'll never forget and it's like yet there are a bunch of episodes of Buffy that are like that

but I think that's one where everything is brought to a halt by design and yet it's still super watchable which is an incredible thing to pull off Well, I think also plug your ears if you're Mallory, Rubin, or anyone else who has not seen this far into Buffy. But the way in which it takes a supernatural show and brings reality crashing into it is just, like, pretty unforgettable. Can I ask you another Lindelof-Vor's question? What would be your leftover submission? I was thinking about this as International Assassin, which we've covered in the Hall of Fame.

It's clearly a Hall of Fame episode. And yet, you know, like, there's a part of me that's like, do I want the finale? The finale. I mean, Book of Nora is so good. It's the finale. It's really good. Yeah. Anything else?

Any other shows that are important to you that we've never talked about that you feel like. There's got to be so many at this point. Like, we haven't and probably will never talk about Deadwood on this podcast for reasons that I don't quite understand. I feel like we've talked around Deadwood in the past. Yes. But, yeah. I mean, just one of the great works of television of all time. I think that like snapshot, again,

it's a little bit of like you were 13 when S&L was on, but like the six feet under Deadwood version of HBO is a lot of appeal for me. That's your, that is my sweet spot for sure. Number 46 on the list, sold under sin, Deadwood season one, episode 12. So it's on the list. Low of the list was on the list.

We're happy just to be nominated. There you go. All right. Well, this has been the constant and some other stuff. And we really just wanted to talk about some great television and also highlight the great work of our colleagues over on the ringer.com.

Please do go visit that list. It's really well composed and well written and we just really love the people that we work with and they did a great job. They love television too. Yes. I would also, Joe, I would love to hear from anyone listening,

Prestige TV at Spotify.com, for your lost alternative episodes to the constant, if not the constant what? Because I feel like this is such like a wide range of possibilities with this show in particular. Abbott Turner is also really high up on my list. It's really, really good.

Yeah, the Black Rock gets a shout in this episode. So, yeah. Let me tell you, that season needed it. It needed that episode so badly. So I'm glad that it found its way in there. So not across the sea for you, not the Allison Janney episode, no? You know, I have nothing bad to say about C.J. Craig. Nothing bad to say about Allison Janie except the fact that I don't know why she's in that episode.

I don't know why that episode exists. I don't know what's happening with any of that. I think if I wanted to do maximum trolling, which sometimes you do want to do with lists like these, like not be untrue to yourself, but also be provocative. Yes. The last finale. I mean, we have to at least talk about it a little bit, don't we?

I love the lost finale. Like, I absolutely love it. And in terms of, like, things that can easily make me cry, the first few notes of the score at the end of the loss finale, which is called Moving On by Michael Giacino. demolishes me every time. That's an episode, to your point about

what they do with Charlie in Greatest Hits and Through the Looking Glass, that's what they do with Jack for me in the finale. They really do. You know, all of that stuff

just really works on me, so. Jack is not great. Much of the run-up to that finale is not great. And yet, like, I mean,

this is just the through line of all these Lindelof shows. It's like, the emotional truth of what the show is, it always gets there in the end. And it always, I mean, just decks me every single time. So I'm with you.

I was honestly a little shocked by the reputation of the finale and then experiencing it for the first time. Granted, I mean, I do have you in my ear, too, so there's some counterbalancing light and dark in my life if I want to weigh the two stones. Of course, not equally. But I think it's really effective. And honestly, all the more effective of the fact that the final season is just not there. Christian Shepherd you will forever be my exception to the no ghost dad rule

you're it for me we all get one we all get one ghost dad and it's Christian Shepherd for me all right well this has been the constant this has been our toe dip back into Lost Rob's you know great accomplishment

of 2025 among other things I'm sure and thank you to Justin Sales for the sort of prod to do this. Thank you to all of our colleagues who put that tremendous list together and everyone who worked on the design of it and all of it is just like an incredible lift. Thank you to our constant, Kai Grady for his work on this episode. Thank you to you, Rob Mahoney, and we'll see you soon. Bye.

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