The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Pachinko’ Episodes 1-3

Episode Date: March 25, 2022

Dave Chang and David Choe convene to talk about the first three episodes of the new Apple TV show, ‘Pachinko,’ which tells the story of an immigrant Korean family across four generations. Hosts: Dave Chang and David Choe Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sasha, at the start of this, you told me you didn't watch Pachinko. And then you just heard us idiots rambling about this show for almost two hours. Don't lie to me. Please answer, honestly, I won't get mad. Did we just ruin the show for you? Are you going to watch it now? No, I still have no idea what happens. So I'm definitely going to watch it now.

And I'm prepared for tears. I'm ready to cry. So we just finished recording the episode one, two, and three prestige podcast. This is now going to, I think, be the introduction to this podcast because I was like, with show was like, you think we just made any sense whatsoever? I think we did a disservice to the show that's on Apple Plus Pachinko that we're talking about. And they just don't know me. I was like, we have Sasha, who's not Korean.

Let's get her take. So give a preamble to this long, meandering. nonsensical podcast that we did for the prestige that very well may be the last prestige ever made. Oh, absolutely. Because it's just the way we, I don't even know what happened. But for Sasha, we wanted to let people know in advance to fair warning. She just listened to us ramble on for almost two hours. You're sure that wasn't going to like be a disservice to the show?

No, I think it's a companion. That's not a good thing. I, be honest, I've never listened to a prestige podcast. Cho, have you listened to a prestige podcast? I don't even know this format. No, I don't know what it is. The best part is there's going to be no ads. No ads?

It's going to be just a pure two hours. So for those that are listening, now this is even getting longer. Yeah. Can you let the audience know that listens to this wonderful prestige podcast, these episodes? What is the normal format and how long is it usually? Two people like yourselves talk for 40 minutes about a TV show. All right. All right.

So we're just fair warning to all. Yeah. If I remember the last time I did Dave Chang's podcast, I talked, I probably rambled for four or five hours and they cut it a few hours. So I can probably, I don't know who's going to edit. Is it? Are you going to edit it, Sasha? I am going to edit this. Yeah.

I'll speak for Sasha. I guarantee who's ever listening to this right now. They're going to edit out at least an hour of me talking about bullshit. So it'll be, it'll be, you know, presentable. This is our pre-podcast to the podcast to give everyone a fair warning that if you're listening to this, we're like, this is not the prestige podcast, no shit. Because we just turn it on its head. And I don't know what happened.

And we talk about an hour. Let's just break it down. First 20 minutes, we talk about like Korean shit. The next 20 minutes, we talk about more Korean shit. And the next 60 minutes we talk incoherently about what happened in the show. Honestly, I would have loved to have just talked about rice the entire time, but you wanted to, like, make some kind of sense of it. Multiple times. And Dave show comes up with the term racist, which I've never heard before.

But you know, racist in your life. You're probably a racist yourself. I was going to say he is. Oh, yeah, for sure. Multiple times in the past few weeks, you and Chris, especially during the diets they both went on. It was like, fuck brown rice. Brown rice is garbage. I don't want that. Like, white rice only, white rice supremacy. Well, you know, that's a whole nother start. We were a racist in our midst. We frown on racists in our society and we applaud racists in our society.

Okay. If we haven't lost you in the first five. minutes of this. We certainly will lose you in the next two hours of this nonsense. This is the prestige podcast episodes on the Pachinko Apple Plus series. This is a prestige podcast on the Ringer podcast network. The podfather himself Bill Simmons asked myself David Chang and David Cho, the Cho Chang method to do a first in podcast history. First time ever to have the Cho Chang method describe the Pachinko experience on Apple Plus. Oh. Yeah.

Dave Cho, Dave Chang. This is weird, right? I think this is, for people that listen to the prestige podcast, this is going to be the weirdest, most incomprehensible, possibly longest one that anyone's ever come across. We're here to break boundaries and to blow people's minds. So I don't know what else to say other than that. Well, look, can I just start before we jump into this to tell you how reluctant I am to do this? Because people already think I'm you, right? Like, I'm eating at a restaurant today and they're like, bro, you're kind of like an asshole on your TV show, but I love your food.

And I never correct them. I say thanks. And I also put out a show last year called The Cho Show on FX. And I was lucky enough to get nominated for Spirit Awards. So I'm sitting at my first award show Like, you know, the Spirit Awards Very diverse. It's like there's a table of just all little people,

a table of all deaf people, people of color. And I'm like, this is awesome. And I'm sitting there and at least three times, you know, I'm sitting there going, I made it, I made it to the big time, you know? Three different people come up to my table, put their hand on my shoulder and say, bro, you just fucking killed it with Blue Bayou.

And so I'm like, I would rather do a review of Spider-Man, or Batman, you know, that's my shit. So to have two matchy, matchy, two gooks like reviewing the most gook-infested show on TV, I'm already reluctant about that. And then it's just, I ask myself, like, with the racial draft, like, if I had to cut, as an Asian person, I'm always, like, what's the appropriate number

of how many white people I should have in my life? So I had to cut Critter out to make room for Bill Simmons. For people who aren't Asian, for all the non-Asians out there, how much space do you have in your heart and your mind and your everything to to allow Asians into your life for as far as like TV, movies, music? And I'm coming to the answer of it's usually just one, right? They're like, I'll have enough bandwidth in my mind to only let one Asian in. And then and then that's it because, you know, then we all get mistaken for each other.

Like I'm with Steve Young and he's like, everyone's coming up to him going, great job on Squid Game. You know, it's like... Wait, Steve wasn't in Squid Game? No. Oh, yeah, he wasn't Squiggy. He was an old man with lots of makeup. So, yeah, so I'm a little bit... And Steve, I was shocked. Was not in Pichinko.

I thought he was... You know, I thought he was in Pachinko, but he was not in Pichink. I bet you they asked him. He's in a weird phase where he's taking all these weird artsy roles, you know? So... Listen. You mentioned Justin John. He just made Blue Bayou.

You're a big fan of it. He is one of the directors on this eight episode series on Apple Plus. The other is the great Kokoaga, who has a Japanese name, but he's Korean. And Justin Chun, it's killing it with Blue Bayou. So you have two prominent Korean-American directors. I don't even know Kokonaut is Korean-American. He's just Korean. And written by one of the most famous authors, great authors in the world.

world, Minjin Lee, who is a Korean immigrant and has written free food for millionaires, and in 2017 came out with Pachinko. And I, I'll be honest, I'm a huge fan of Minjin. I read Free Food for Millionaires, but I could not read Pachinko. My wife devoured it in three days. I must have like 12 copies at my house because every single person that I know that is Korean American has read it and gave me a copy and said, you got to read it. read this book. I never read it for specific reason. Cho, did you read it? I've never read it. I've

read comic books. I didn't read it because I knew I had an idea of what it was about and it was going to be too much for me to read. It mirrored too much of my own family's history. And for those that don't know, Pachinko is about a generational story of Koreans living in Japan, takes place America takes place in Korea, but there's a lot of generational trauma. There's a lot of Korean history that has never been written about. And up until this point, I've never seen it on TV in a dramatic series either. So this was a first. I do think I'm going to read the book now because now the sort of the band-aids ripped off. And I do want to read it because I don't know if this series, as great as it is, could ever sort of capture the things of a book. Do you think that...

I just ordered it on Amazon while you were talking, you know, like... I, without, you know, I have fear in my heart when someone's like, you've got to read this thing. It's, it's, it's, you're going to love it, Dave. And then if it just goes into like the most recent years, right, when someone's like, bro, crazy rich Asians, that's for you guys. That's your Black Panther. When they say, go watch Shang-chi. And I go, oh, that's what I need to watch right now, a kung fu master whose dad is an Asian gangster. Or even the new Pixar movie, like turning, turning red.

Like all those things are like, I'm not going to lie, because I come in, I come into all these things as a hater. Like Justin Tron, he's from Twilight, right? So I met him years ago at one of those Korean award shows and I'm like, fuck this dude. I don't, you know, and it was, it was only like, I'm a hater. Why hate, why hate, why are you hating people, Dave? Well, I guess I should say past tense. I've been a hater. You know, I've been a hater because it's just like, how are you going to do me?

How are you going to tell my story and not fuck it up? And so, like, all the really popular movies I just named that are, like, supposed to be our time, Shang Chi, crazy rich Asians, turning red. They're still ancient and exotic and oriental. It's still, it's like we just can't be. It's still, like, Asians, like, stuck in the sunken place. It's like, and so, you know, I've been watching Justin's career. He did Gook and then he did Blue Bayou and then he did this now. And it's like, oh, I'm a fan now.

Like I love this guy. And then even this thing when Bill Simmons was like, hey, you guys want to do this, I guess I still am a hater. I hated off the movie poster. I saw the hambok. I saw the faces. I saw the gook faces. And I'm just like, this is just too close to home.

I'm already living in this shit. I'm still fighting with my parents. I hear their shit. I got to hear all this generational trauma shit all the time. I don't need to watch a fucking TV show about it. And then I'm watching this fucking thing just crying. going, there's no way this is, I mean, I'm already

loving the TV show and I've never read the book and I'm like, all right, the book's going to be dope because the book's always better, you know? I mean, first and foremost, again, I think people need to know more about Korean history, more about Korean culture, because Korean culture is like so popular right now. It's never been

cooler to be Korean, which is weird. But I think if you're going to know that, if you know about Cho and his Korean's gone bad, if you know about Han, you know, you need to start to familiarize yourself with what Dave just said, Humboldt. People don't even know what the hell that is. That's a Korean traditional clothing, right? And these are the things that if we said kimono, I think people will know what you're talking about. You know what I mean? But you say, humboldt, people don't know. And I think this is

the, this is the time and place where I think the shift in understanding about Korean culture and what we're allowed to talk about is now in the open, Dave. Like all the things that we talk about to each other or when we have dinner with other Koreans, this is now something that is out in the open. I'm excited about that. And you're right. When I watched the show, I didn't want to hate it. I very much wanted to read the book, but I was reluctant because of the scars, because

it hit too close to home. And for both of us, you know, I mean, I don't know how deep your family's history is with Japan, but my family's history. history is very intertwined. I'm not going to be a really, dude. I fucking love the show. It's the best show on TV. Like, I came in a hater just because I hate myself and I, I'm like a, I can be at times

a self-hating Korean. But I just, the show flipped me. I'm like, this is the, this is the best show on TV. How much did you feel, though, that your time in Japan did it, like, trigger you? Because you spend time in Japan, you were scarred. I spent time in Japan and I was scarred. I, I'm sobbing through this show. I'm fucking shake.

My hand was shaking. through the show. I'm, I would like, I don't smoke, but I would like go outside to like, like, just get a, I mean, like, I grew up with, with, you know, Asians, we don't like to talk about the past, right? And so I get all these, like, stories of what it was like for our parents, for our grandparents. And this show kind of just filled in a lot of the blanks because they, you know, I grew up, besides Harry Kim, I didn't grow up with a lot of Koreans. Like, I grew up with mostly Japanese kids and they would all come into my house. And when they would come over, my grandma would start talking to them in Japanese

and I'd be like, whoa, what's going on, grandma? And then all my aunts all have Japanese names. I mean, they had Japanese names and Korean names. They all speak perfect Japanese. And as a little kid, six, seven years old, I'm like, I don't understand what's happening. Why is your Japanese so perfect? And they're like, oh, because they came in and they raped and murdered.

And I'm like, whoa. And then I didn't, just from them telling, but my family was different than other Korean families. And my grandma was always so nice to all my Japanese friends. And I would say, why, grandma? They were so mean to you. Why? And they're like, these kids are like you.

They were born here. They didn't do any of that shit. Like, they're going to pay for the sins of the father. Like, they didn't do any of that stuff. But, you know, that's what my parents told me. That's what my grandma. They were like, they came in. They made us change our names.

They would beat the shit out of us if we spoke our own native tongue. And, you know, the horrible things that they did to us. And it's just, you're a kid, I'm a kid growing up in like the 80s playing with GI Joe's and Transformers. And it just sounds all fictional or like, like from another, you know, I'm like, wow, that's crazy that that happened. But you're cool now, right? You know? And then now here I am like a middle age man, like still dealing with, you know, the amount of times in my life where I'm like, I'm a wealthy man living a fucking awesome life. And I got to hold my mom and dad and I got to look at him and go, the war is over.

The war is over. And to them it's not. There's still a war happening. And watching the show, it just, you know, like, it's been 20 years since I was in a Japanese prison. And when I was there, when I was with the mass population with other people, I mean, eventually when I got convicted, they put me in solitary confinement.

But when I was with other people, just being Korean, I had to fight someone every day. Like, I had to fight fist fight with someone every day. And then until they found out I was in it, an artist and they're like, oh, he can draw it. Like, then that transcended because if you're in jail and you have any skill, then you're the man. But yeah, I mean. I mean, but Cho, what you're saying, I think is going to be interesting.

I think we need to, whether people want to listen to this or not, I think this is going to be the two topics of conversation. If you're Korean-American and in your our age, for the most part, your parents and grandparents lived or very Japanese as my grandparents were. live there, you're going to have a lot of stories that were passed on to you. You're going to have these kinds of conversations right now. I guarantee it. The conversation you're hearing Dave and I have right now, we haven't even spoken about this, anybody that's Korean American or Korean is going to be able to have a very similar conversation. 100% I guarantee it. On the other hand,

you're going to have people that watch this because it's an amazing series. I almost said it was a docu series because in some ways it is the acting is phenomenal they kill it on the cast and i don't want to we're not going to divulge past episode three i'm interested to see how people are going to watch this without any korean understanding without anything other than hey i want to watch a series because someone told me it's good right i heard that people are moved to tears because it's so good all the harmonies and hada bhajiz are going to be sobbing my parents are going to be sobbing watching this thing but beyond that for me the acting unbelievable the directing the the music for me was better than anything the music this guy Nico Muli was like if you're if you're listening to this

nico fucking you should win every award call me please do something with me but I'm watching this show and did you ever have to dress differently when you went to a white person's house like growing up dude I still do so that was interesting because I'm watching this show and I'm like, you know, if we were going to anyone's, anyone Koreans' house, it didn't matter. But if my parents are like, oh, you're going to white people's house, you better put on a, you know, a button down shirt or a polo shirt or, you know, something. No holes in your pants. And also Japanese people.

They're like, if you're going to go to a Japanese person's house, you better dress nice. So there was that still that fear. And, you know, honestly, the mixed emotions watch, it's like, it makes me fucking pissed. I get angry. Like, I want to punch the wall. wall, like, I want to scream. I want, like, I have so much, I have so much pain from watching it. And then, and then the flip side, the, you know, this whole show, this whole series could just be, just be like, it's a focused spotlight on how stubborn and resilient Korean people are, right?

There's not selling properties, like, you can't use logic, right? It's like, we don't give a fuck about what's logical or what's, we're going to be stubborn, the pride, all that shit. And so as I watched the show, I'm sitting here. and this for someone, because there's people in my family do absolutely hate Japanese people, this show will make them even more angry. It'll remind them. It'll trigger them. It'll remind them all the horrors and injustices.

For me, I sit here and like you started this thing with, we're sort of on top of the world right now. And I don't think there's any way, and I'll probably get a lot of slack for this. There's no way that would have happened with that level. you know, I'm a, you know, I'm not a hater today. I live in gratitude. So when I see how Koreans are just resilient and then they endured and they just fucking killing it in every field, it's because of all the fucking murder and savagery and injustices. So in a way, there is gratitude there for me.

And I think that's what this show did too, is it didn't just show like, these are the worst people on the planet. They humanized everyone, you know, it's like, no, it's a lot. And again, this isn't about our lives, but it's hard for me not to talk about this TV series without talking about us. Like, my love of Japanese food is because of my grandfather. I thought of Japanese food. That's all I ate growing up. That's all he ate growing up.

My fascination with Japanese culture is because of my grandfather. So there's a lot of things in this series, and I will read the book because I know some of the great lines in the TV series, 100% came from the book. book. And I could, I think there's some very powerful moments that I think we can resonate to with. But I think we should probably, now that we're 20 minutes in, sort of like preface, preface the series. Yes, it's a Pichinko. I watched it with my wife. My wife read the book and she said that it's not, it doesn't cover everything. So if you read the book, you're not going to be disappointed. It's just there's so many, it's a three books series. It's three books that comprise Pichinko. And they weave the time.

lines, you know, throughout all the eight episodes. So it jumps, but it jumps a little bit like Godfather, too. So if I could give a comp, especially the first three episodes, are very, to me, very much to me, Godfather, too, where they go to a younger De Niro and they go to a Pacino, you know, and back and forth. And yes, it's not about gangsters, but there is gangster elements. But to me, the story of family is very familiar. And I, I feel like that's the best comp I can give as crazy as that sounds is that like it reminds me of Godfather too. Yeah.

I mean, for me, even if they just stopped the whole series at episode four, I'm like, that's like the best show on TV. Yeah. I agree. I agree. And for me, the Lord of the Ring series will forever be linked with my time in prison because I saw Return of the King in Los Angeles, flew to Japan for my art show, and then got arrested the next day.

So I had just finished, you know, and Lord of the Rings is one of my favorite trilogy movies I've ever seen. In jail, in Japan, they don't have a lot of English-speaking books. So I didn't read the books. I only watched the movie and I loved it. And then in jail, just the guy, there was a Korean guy. First of all, there's a lot of Koreans that are born in Japan that completely deny being Korean. Yeah. They're like, I'm Japanese.

Don't even talk to me about that shit. And so one of these guys young, I met in jail. He had nine fingers. had one missing. As he was leaving, he gave me his copy of Lord of the Rings. So I read the book after the movies and I was like, holy fuck, dude, they have glossaries and indexes for like the languages. So I don't even know what this, the book, what's in this book for Pachinko, but I'm sure, I'm sure the book is like a thousand times better than this. And yet, you know, Minjin is one of the great writers of our generation. She just is, you know, full stop. So, you know,

we're blessed to have or representing a lot of the voices of otherness, right? And that's what I think that Pachinko covers a lot. I think that this series, though, takes the perspective of women being in Korean and a Japanese-occupied Korea. But, you know, there's so much to cover. So I haven't listened to too many of the prestige podcast, but I don't think there's any TV show that needs this much besides Dave and I talking information. incessantly about ourselves.

This show needs a lot of context, right? A lot. It is, and I'm sure the book covers this, but if you're watching this, this is where I feel that this podcast can actually be useful. You know, we start off with this scene where Yang Jin,

Sungja's wife, Sunja's mom, is complaining and hoping that this Korean shaman would bless her with child, because she's lost three boys in their first years of birth. That in and of itself needs a lot of information, right? If you are friends with Korean people, they celebrate the first 100 days, the Bechil, right, 100 days and the first year of birth, the Dole, right?

Huge moments. The Dole is like the Bar Mitzvah, right? But you're at one. And the 100 day is a lesser celebration, but also monumental. Koreans celebrate this for morbid, sad reasons. Most Korean babies died before 100 days. And if you made it past 100 days, most of those died before the first year. So to start off this series with death, right?

That tells you a lot about Korean culture. It also, to me, told a lot, very on brand, but also was interesting. because if you put it in the context of where the show is taking place right now, it's in the southern tip of Korea. Yongdo are like islands on the southern part of Busan. Busan is a port city. It's like one of the happening places in Korea right now. But back in probably the early 20th century, there was no Christianity south of, all of Christianity was basically in North Korea, what is now North Korea. right anywhere south that is now south korea was all buddhist and shaman right um so i thought again like

that's that's telling in so many ways because like choh and i come from very heavily christian families my my my my both my mom and dad's side came from north korea christianity was like extremely important and christianity is another central theme in in pachinko i'm sure plays a bigger role in the book, but it definitely plays a role in the TV series. But it was interesting that it talks about death before one years old and, you know, the idea of like a Korean shaman ajima. So that's a big one. That's a huge celebration of the 100 days because it's like, fuck, the little fucker made it to

100 days. Let's keep it going. Yeah. And then the first year when you do the, for those who don't know, Koreans, the first year when the, when the baby turns one, it's a big thing. it's a big thing. They lay out all the things in front of the baby like rice, money, you know, a pen, you know, every single object represents like, you know, it's Korean shaman fortune telling shit.

Like if they grab the pen, then maybe they're going to be an artist or a writer. If they grab money, they're going to be like a banker or something like that. I think it was also important for them to start off with this because it was about breaking the cycle of not trauma, And it's not necessarily Han, but I think one of the central themes, at least in the series, and again, I don't know if in the book, but I will find out soon enough, is how much is inherited. And this is a theme that you hear throughout the series is how much are children responsible because of what their parents had done before.

And this is a recurring theme. And part of that is like what Yang Jin, Sunja's mom, was asking, for was to sort of break the cycle of failure, right? What was interesting is her three sons had passed, but to be born a daughter in Korea is seen as a, at that time, not the most desirable thing. It's extremely misogynistic culture, right? And that was the start of breaking the cycle, right? Like, I think that's a very symbolic thing. I don't know why, but that's just how I felt. So, you know, it's like sons versus daughters and how the matriarch, Sungja, who I think the MVP of this, at least the first episode, is baby Sungja. She's so good.

She's amazing. I was talking to Steve Young about it. He's like, dude, kids, kid actors in Korea are like unbelievable. They're like little Jody Foster's. She's by far like the best childhood actor I've ever seen. Amazing. Every variation of Sanja, like kid, middle, harmony, like every generation of Sanja was like the best for me in this show. And I think it's an interesting sort of, again, not interesting, but a theme that needs to be spoken about is how much agency do you have?

Right. And I think a recurring theme is the past and the present sort of merging together, which again, as you can, you'll find out when you watch this with, all the time jumping and how much history repeats itself and one does history not repeat itself, right? It gets straight to the heart of the matter in a very sort of, you could watch this without even thinking too much about it. It goes back to after Sung Jo is born to a father with a cleft lip. Again, there's a lot to talk about.

We're going to be jumping all over the place, but we jump to 1989, about 50 years in the future, to Solomon, who is one of the main characters in the show, played by Jinha, who's an amazing actor. And he was in Hamilton. His Japanese is perfect. Schiffleys would be some kind of JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns type of investment bank. And here he is walking, trying to get the promotion, right, to become like a managing director. And clearly, it seems like this guy's killing it. But he's talking to his two white bosses, and they're basically like, fuck you.

I think a lot of people might watch this and be like, whatever. But I think it's important because you're also talking about 1989. Very different time and place where this guy who was educated, say he went to Yale, went to Choate Rosemary Hall, one of the top boarding schools in the New England area, working as a vestmaker. This guy's super ambitious. He's already hit his glass ceiling. to be Korean in America in 1989,

you're not you're not going to become the top dog. You're not going to become the boss of other people, not because of your abilities, but because of your background. Do you think, and that's, I was watching that, I was like, has that changed that much? No, I don't think so.

No, dude. It's like, no, man. Like the only reason why we, we were, you and I were able to do what we did is because we did it completely asked backwards, right? This cycle of like, you know, this trauma and all the legacy and everything that, you know, that's embedded into all Asians of like make, don't, don't embarrass the family. Don't embarrass the family. Like it's, you know, don't, don't embarrass your parents, you know.

It's just make your parents proud. Just make them proud. Just everything is about, there's no I. it's all we, right? And then every kid just being born and wanting to make their parents proud. And the only way for me to have ever made my parents proud was to completely destroy their expectations

and disappoint them before getting here. And I think that's the only reason why we did what we did. But when I'm watching this show, I'm just like, holy fuck. Like, I wouldn't, yeah, it's very frustrating to watch Solomon at work, you know, in this kind of, environment, you know? And then on top of that, it's not just like with white people. It's also Koreans on where they're where they're at with Japanese people, you know, and how they're treated over there. And then it goes, I think that after, after Solomon says, you know, he wants

promotion. He doesn't. This is, again, a central part that unfolds in the series in the book is, he says, well, you're going to, this is where it gets very like Korean aggression, anger. done through work. He's like, no, you're going to give me my fucking job. You're going to give me my back pay, and I'm going to fucking crush it. So fuck you guys, right? That vengeance, the Han. If you want to know what Han is, it is when Solomon basically tells his boss is to go fuck you and you're going to give me all of this because I'm going to land this deal in Japan because I'm going to go back to Japan. And I think that's when we go to the opening credits. And I just wanted to say the opening credits are fucking awesome. I think it's very similar to me to

Oh my God. What's the John Sino comic book? That's what I was going to say is like, as soon as the, and I don't know who did it first, I don't know when they filmed theirs and I don't know when suicide filmed theirs, but suicide squad killed it with one of the most greatest dance, choreographed dance scenes for their opening scene. And I don't know if that's a thing now, but, you know, Pachinko has all the actors on the show doing a dance scene in a Pachinko parlor. and you could tell Lee Minho just doesn't want to dance.

Like he's just phoning it in. And the little kid's going crazy. And I was like, and maybe it's just because I just finished Suicide Squad, I was like, bro, you guys got to bring it way harder than that. Like choreographed that shit, dance harder. Yeah, for any other TV show or movie out there that's going to open with like, you know, surreal dance sequence, you got to bring it hard after what John Cena did. No, I'm going to disagree with you.

I thought this was as good. as peacemaker. You disagree. I thought it was awesome. I really did. I also, again, if I didn't see a peacemaker, then I would be like,

yeah, but because peacemaker just crushed, I was like, all right, that's a little weak spot. But going to the, the music supervisor, Nico Muley,

he takes a obscure song from the grassroots band, let's live for today. And I think it very much encompasses sort of the theme of Pachinko. And of course, It's like, don't worry about tomorrow.

Hey, hey, hey, live for today. Live for today. Again, like, pretty simple message. But, like, I think it's ironic because that's not how Koreans actually think. Koreans are the furthest things from living for today. I don't want to say all Koreans, but from what I have experienced, doesn't seem like that's the case. I could be totally wrong there. But we go right into, again, 1989 Tokyo.

And you have Solomon in the first song that comes on. soundtrack is Talking Heads Road to Nowhere. I think without foreshadowing too much is a pretty

appropriate song choice. There's just so much and we have barely even gone into the first five minutes of the fucking first episode. So I don't even know

where to begin because like we need to talk about what Pachinko is. People may not understand what Pachinko is. I mean it's, you know,

as soon as I finished watching I was like, this is Korean Game of Thrones. Like maybe like, game with the real. I'm talking about the actual fucking game. Oh, the actual game. Okay.

This is the part where I should be embarrassed because Pachinko is a form of entertainment and gambling. And I pride myself on being a good gambler or I have been in the past. I don't gamble anymore. But it's like really, really popular in Japan. And it's a, it's, I don't know that much about it. It involves a lot of it. Well, I do know a lot because I played a lot of Pachinko because I do have a gambling problem. And let me tell you, if you want to open your, you got one of those automatic doors.

And oftentimes it's like, uh, extremely loud like pinball machine times 100. And there's so much smoke, cigarette smoke in the air that you can like, it has its own atmosphere. You know what I mean? It's, it's like always. And depending on the day and depending on the location, they're jam packed or they're full of like, you know, young, usually young men in the daytime and older men during, like, different hours. But it's just like a weird cross-section of Japanese culture. The game Pachinko is actually incredibly stupid to me because like all gambling. You really don't have, it's, you don't really, it's an illusion that you have control

over what's happening. It's like that Bob Barker Price's Right thing, Blinko thing. You put and it falls down and you're trying to get it into certain holes like a pinball. But there are mechanisms where you can sort of like move things. Some are modern, like especially the more modern ones, which I haven't seen in a while. But like basically you have no agency over the mini ball. So you walk into a Pichinko parlor. You give how many dollars or yen.

And they give you a basket of little metal balls, like hundreds depending on. So like a hundred yen, you get 100 balls. And you will see people all day, all day, every day, the same people, just putting one dollar. One, the pin, you actually put the pinball in and that's your sort of currency. And if you win, you get more pinballs. So a lot of times you might see like someone that's having a really good day with like 10, 20 stacks of baskets of these balls. It's crazy. It sounds like a pinball slot machine.

And is there a potential to win? Like what's the most you can win? Is it like thousands, hundreds, a million? I don't know how crazy it is, but you can win. And it's enough where like,

again, I don't, I could be wrong, but I don't think there's that much skill in it, right? Because you can't like do anything. But I have seen people with lots of baskets of metal balls. Right.

And you ask yourself like, oh, it's almost like Chuck E cheese. So instead of getting tickets, you get these balls. More balls you have is currency. But because Japanese culture, in some ways, Pachinko is like perfectly describes Japanese culture. There's always a way of getting something done to skirt the law or to skirt loopholes. So gambling is illegal.

Gambling is illegal in Japan. Oh, so that doesn't count as gambling. No, because you then, like in Chucky Cheese, you take your, how many, You've won and you bring it back to the counter and you say, I would like to buy that stuffed teddy bear with a star on its belly. So that's like 100,000 Pachinko balls and you can't do anything with it. Right. Right. What are you going to do with that?

Aha. But if you're in the know, you know, like if I take three rights a left and another, you know, 50 meters, I make another right. There's going to be a window in an alleyway. And if I give this teddy bear with a star in its belly, I'm going to get 50,000. Oh, nice. Didn't know that. Okay. That's Pachinko.

Another thing that's important to note is that most of the gambling, and I've lived in Japan and I've lived in a variety of places in Japan. Japanese, again, I'm not a Japanese sociologist, anthropologist, economist, economist, historian, but my feeling is without the Yakuza, which is the organized crime syndicate with a variety of families, often which are run by Koreans today that have Japanese names, Japan would not function. They're in charge of gambling, trash collection, a lot of the illegal illicit activities

that sort of culture needs to function. It works hand in hand with the government. Because it is seen as such a negative, and I used to read all these books about the Yakuza when I was in Japan, and some of the stories are just downright fucking insane about the violence and the gang, the rivalry, and how they would always try to, like,

take out the leaders and such. But they're in charge and there's different clans throughout Japan. And again, I'm not up to date about who's running it. But the one thing I know for certain is that many, many Koreans that live in Japan are part of Yakuza activities. Yeah, I know. Give me the book, Go to the Rings. Yeah, without nine fingers, right? Because if you did something wrong, you'd lose your pinky and they put it in a freezer or something like that.

So did you ever get into Pachinko when you were in living? there? Yeah. I have a gambling problem. Of course I played Pachinko. You won some money on that thing? No, I was so I never had enough money to gamble, gamble, you know? But, you know, I, when I lived in Azumitha Tori and I lived in Waka and I, when I first lived in Japan was teaching English, I, I would talk to Korean women that were complained to me about their Yakuza Korean husbands, You know, and you would hear all this crazy shit that would happen in the countryside and just how prolific yakuza activity is. Surprisingly, a lot of it is run by Koreans or Koreans are in these activities. Koreans run most of the Pachinko parlors.

So you can't be Korean and be successful in a lot of ways if you're not in the Yakuza. It's funny enough that the head of SoftBank, one of the largest like private equity firms. He's actually Korean, but he has a Japanese name. But, you know, I think that that may be changing. But I know that when I live there, to work and to actually make money, you most, again, I'm certain there's exceptions to the rules, but I felt that you needed to be somewhat tied to organized crime, which is, again, a recurring theme in this series. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, yeah, it's surprising you never played Pacino. But it's a game. I've been in Japan. I've seen it. I'm just like, as a gambler, I've not.

never gone into like lottery tickets or or slot machines and like I'm like all gambling is stupid but I'm like that just seems like like you're not going to win them. There was there wasn't enough juice for me in it, you know. I think to be able to know that Korean, Korea has been raped or pillage or occupied by the Mongols, the Chinese or the Japanese for like most of its history. The most recent Japanese occupation happened in 1910. And before that, I think a lot of Koreans, including my grandparents and great-grandfather in like 1880 moved to Japan. There are a lot of Koreans that moved there and were educated. So, like, people need to know, the reason why Koreans are in this show in Japan is because, like, of the occupation

and because, like, many Koreans didn't have a choice because it was easier to get a job also in, in Japan. Like, why would Koreans, like, live in Japan if they were going to be treated like shit? well, because sometimes they had no choice, and sometimes that's where the work was. I feel like we're going to lose everybody, Cho. I feel like we're only talking about shit that we care about. Well, that's why I'm like, for me, I'm watching this,

and I'm having these internal struggles of like, do I love this show because I'm Korean-American? Because I grew up with a lot of these stories, and it's filling in the blanks for me. Is anyone who's non-Korean? Is a Chinese person going to like this? is a black person going to like this? Is a white person going to like this?

And I'm like in the same way, I didn't need any context for like the wire or a lot of superhero movies. Like you don't have to watch, you don't have to read 60 years of Spider-Man comics to enjoy the last Spider-Man movie, right? Like, when you get to the core, like context is nice and yeah,

read the book after and all that shit, but you're telling a human story, like, about the human spirit and like getting fucking beat down and just getting like used in a, abused and how you either, that's life, right? We all have gone through that. You either get abused and then you just accept your fate in life. Like, I sit here right now and I'm watching this thing and I'm like, I should be, you know, like kids that I, not, these aren't Japanese from Japan. These are Japanese Americans. My best friend growing up, joined the Yakuza, right? It's like, I, I think for, for me,

like, I don't know. The show for me is about resilience in the human spirit. And that transcends, you know, that transcends, like, color, that transcends race. And that's why I want to bring it back to Rice. Because for Rice, like, episode three for me, I fucking cried through the entire episode at every scene, the fucking watch, the rice. And, yeah, if I'm going to spoil this Rice shit for you. We'll get there.

It's a very, very, very important scene and I cried like a bit too. Yeah. But like, you know, episode one is full of context. And I think it's important if you want to go deep down into it to know these things that you have. You need context for this show. I mean, it's helped a lot, but you can just watch it and be like, holy fuck, this shit is crazy. And like. But if you want to get granular, it's all there.

Even like the dialect, the saturi, the accent of people that. The subtitles when they're speaking in Korean is yellow. That's on brand. and then when it's Japanese, it's blue. And, like, I don't know where they, you know. But, but here's a, but like, I didn't, great, my, Grace's mom is from, uh, the south of Korea, like the southern tip. And she doesn't speak in the, she doesn't have the accent, the Satari with me,

when she speaks Korean, did you, when you were listening to their Korean, where you're like, what the fuck? Because it's like a Texas accent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, when I go to Korea and like, whether you're in the north or south, It's like sometimes the accent's so thick that I'm like, my Korean is already bad. I'm like, you know, when we went for to Pyong Chang, I was like, I don't know what these fuckers are saying.

Like, so yeah, I had a tough. Like everything is weird. To me, like my Korean sucks to begin with, but then to hear them speak Korean in the dialect, it was like very hard for me. I didn't know what the fuck. My Japanese was way better in understanding everything. But like, I just thought it was interesting to, to have all of this stuff happen. And again, like, do you think it's important for when Solomon's talking to his like childhood friend when he goes back and he's at the investment bank party?

And his childhood friend basically is like, you're Korean. I can't believe you've been successful. And Solomon's like, do you remember when you told me your dad says that, you know, I'm a dog. I'm a fucking vagrant. Koreans are the worst people in the fucking world. Like, if you grown up, you have these conversations. These are regular conversations if you've had. Korean-Japanese relations.

People need to know that. Like, it's not, it's not uncommon to be seen as a fucking vile piece of shit in Japanese culture, if you're Korean. Right. Yeah. I mean, I live through it. I live through it. So, again, like, this is like episode one setting up a lot of things.

It's, it's the young, uh, Sungja. It's, it's, uh, Solomon getting his sort of feet wet back in Japan. some of the story about Hana, his sort of like childhood love interest. You get to meet his father who runs a Pachinko parlor. You know, like to me, episode one set up a lot of these things. But if you want to get granular, it's all there. Like if you haven't been to Osaka, if you haven't seen these things before, that's what I wonder is like, do you need this context to really extract the most value?

out of the show. If you're a human being and you've ever been fucked with in your life and how you dealt with that, whether you relented to your bully or rose up, rise above it, like that, then that's all you need for me. And this isn't, it's not near, uh, Jeju Island, but it was like a shout out to the Huenya women. Oh, yeah. With the diving.

When they went diving for the clams and stuff, that was dope. And again, like, I think a lot of this sets up 1989 in Japan, Japan is still sort of recovering from the bubble bursting. Because at that time, Japan owned America. They owned 30 Rock. They owned so much real estate. And I think this is like setting things up that again,

I haven't read the book that I'm sure plays out where, you know, Japan is on the precipice of like world domination, but clearly it doesn't happen. And then... I think all the context you need for episode one or this entire series is just, because it's set from 1910 to like the 80s, But it's very modern and current, actually, because what's happening in Russia and Ukraine, Ethiopia, in America, Mexico, you know, it's a refugee story. It's a displacement story. It's about, you know, being torn from, you know, where you live and sent, you know, being an immigrant and being, it's, it's happening now in the world. It's happening now. Like, so I don't think, you know, and this is very specific to Koreans in our story, but it.

It's just if you know anyone or yourself or anyone in your family has been through any kind of hardship like that, then I think you can, you get it. You can relate to this story. Well, we've already spilled in the episode too, right? When Solomon's at the Schiffleys, which is an investment bank he's working at dinner where, you know, he's, he gets talked down to in a weird way by the real estate head that basically is like, you're Korean. Like, I can't believe you're working for us. You know, like, this is all going to go to shit. If it goes to, the shit, it's because you're Korean. And then we also meet Kyeonghi, which is a central figure, I think more so in the book than so far in the series. And she's dying of cancer. And I think there's one online that I actually wrote that I think I wanted to talk to you about where Kyeonghi goes to Sungja and says, we always knew Solomon would be the one, right, to do better, to do better than us. That's something that I think is, is that just Asian or is that just Korean, where we put all of the hopes and dreams on the younger generation to do better, right? And I think it's important that

like if you're here, you're listening and if you're really any, if you're here today, living in this planet, one of your ancestors did something fucking remarkable for you to be here, you know, but that's a lot of pressure that is placed on us in Korean culture. It's not even bad. Like I think, once again, going back to the religious thing, like, it's very on brand in Korean for them to name their kids all after the Bible, right? There's all the, all of men, Isaac, Moses, all that shit. It's all biblical names. And it's very Korean. I know you're the

goal in the baby king in your family, and I was the baby king in my family. It's very Korean, I think. Maybe it's more taboo in American culture, but in Korean culture for the parents to be like, that's the one. That's the chosen one. And you just, you have all these kids and like, that's,

that's our best chance of getting out of here. Do you have any skills? Do you have any talents? And it's more like, it's harsh, but it's also survival. Which one of these fucking kids is the best chance for us to get out of this, this life? He's the one. Let's give him all the biggest pieces of meat, the best rice, you know. And so, you know, yeah, when she said that line, like, you know, it's up to you. It's your, you know, like, it resonated, you know. As you watch this series, so much of it is not because people wanted to do something or

to be in a relationship or to have a child. It's simply because circumstances, like, demanded it. You know, like, if there wasn't a war in Korea, I don't think my mom marries my dad. You know what I mean? It's like all of this shit just sort of happened because people had no choice. Yeah, it's just all these things that human, you know, when Bill, when Bill Simmons asked me to review this show, like, I'm in, I'm in the middle of watching my favorite show right now, which is 19, or 1883 and Yellowstone, which is a completely different and similar in the same

way where, you know, there's a gypsy woman on that show who's her father, her husband gets killed. And so she tries to fuck every dude to wife up to any of these guys because she needs to survive. And war and these kind of situations, they bring up these extreme things where you're just, what do I need to do to survive in the setting? And the answer is usually anything. I'll fucking do anything to survive. If I got to marry this person, you know, you know, do sexual, you know, provide sexual services if I need to sell my body if I need to sell my kids if I need you know I'll do anything to to survive you know and and talking about survival is one of the reasons why the one of the sort of central plot like plot lines in the show is this woman with this plot of land that

Solomon's trying to buy for Shipley so they could build a golf course or something like that right and they're trying to buy it for one billion yen which is at the time is like nine million US which is probably like I don't know like 40 million today and it's like this small little house. So that happens. Sungja almost gets raped and then we get introduced to her, what do you call Kohansu? Her lover?

It's like her secret boyfriend, I guess. Secret boyfriend. And Kohansu is again, like, you know, we were just talking about. He's a fucking dreamy, dude. I don't, I haven't watched, I had to look him up after. I thought when I saw him,

I thought he was like a K-pop star. He's very handsome man. Dude, I would fuck this shit out of that guy. Like he's so good looking, I don't know what other work he's done. This is my first, this is my first intro into him. I want him to be inside me. Like he's, I mean, just watch that's like the forbidden love and all the love part. I'm a romance guy.

I love rom-coms. Like, it's just an amazing, like, just like the life situation, like, he fucking, like, he did it. He was a fucking dirtbag kid from the streets and then he did it. he fucking killed it. He like made it to the top. And then, you know, he's, but he did it by becoming Japanese and doing the Japanese way. And then there's this. He's a kuzha, which is why it was like clear to me, we're not even knowing it then that I was like, oh, this guy's a gangster.

Right. Like they're just like, you don't become successful or have that position as a Korean person. Right. Unoccupied, like Japanese-occupied Korea, unless you're like Yakuza. He did all these things that were against his value system to make it to the top. He kept his head down. You know, that's like my parents' story. That's my grandparent story.

That's my story. And so he sees this, you know, Sunja, who, you know, it reminds him of his youth. It reminds him of where he came from and he falls in love with her. and that romance of just chilling by that rock by this creek and doing laundry together. And it was like, I'm like into this because, you know, there was a long time where I was that guy. You know, I wasn't in the yakuza, but I would just, I would never give myself fully over to any woman. And like, I was dating all these women. And I would be like, and I gave whatever his indecent proposal was, which is like, I'm never going to marry you.

Like, you're beneath me now. But I will set you up for life. I'll set you up, your kids, all this shit. But I just won't give you the title. I won't marry you and all that. I've said almost revamed that to women before. And that acting and that scene when her faces, you just feel the pain that she's in.

Like, you, fuck you, you're disrespecting me. And his acting when he goes from cursing her, I mean, from telling her, like, hey, I'm doing, like, you don't even know how hard the world is. Like, you don't even know, like, how awesome I'm going to. set you up and then when she says no when he immediately turns into like the bad guy he's like well fuck you then like your dad's a cripple he's got a cleft lib like my kid's gonna be fucked up too probably because of him and and all that shit it's just it's just heartbreaking that whole scene is

that whole romance is heartbreaking the whole forbidden love like it's just it spoke to me on so many levels i was just like this is the best you should watch it just for the love story well i'll tell you they nailed all the sort of smaller things too like washing clothes in the river that's literally how my grandmother washed her clothes my grandmother used to complain that she was smarter than everybody else but she couldn't get fucking educated because she was a woman same thing with sungja it's like they it's a very accurate uh portrayal of that time and i'm sure the love story is too so you know they they they have their fling it's important to note an episode too you you see Solomon and the dude from Westworld,

whatever his name is, Jimmy, the actor's name is Jimmy Simpson, but they try to buy the land from the woman. Oh, I thought that people were in radio or something. That's what I thought. I'm not going to play that role perfect.

I don't know if his face just looks like that kind of dude, but he played that part. I like how they, he basically explains how he wound up to Japan. And he summarizes what, it's like to be like that kind of American banker dude that just blows up his life and what's a bitch man. So I thought he was really good. There's a Steven Spielberg movie from like the 80s where they're trying to build an apartment building, but they can't because that one

house in the middle won't sell. Battery's not included. Battery's not included. So this is the battery's not. That's amazing deep. I'm so amazing. I can't even believe I just. pull that out. Yeah. Batteries don't Chris. Go watch it. Great movie.

This fucking grandma, like this huge corporation bank is like, we need to fucking buy this small plot of land so we can build these giant hotels, condos,

whatever. So you're saying Minjin Lee took the plot of batteries not included. That's what you go. She 100% did that. That's an 80. I'm going to see,

I'm going to see Minjin in April or May and I will ask her this to her face. She watched that movie. She stole that. shit for sure so again I mean tro like there's just so many plot lines in this episode two ends with Hana

where Solomon has a freak out because clearly Hana owns his ass romantically yeah Solomon's dad owns a Pachinko parlor that's girlfriend's daughter dad's girlfriend's daughter yes I'll sum up the plot there's so many plot lines but the plot line is

don't fuck with Koreans don't fuck with Asian people it's like this bank is I don't know what a billion yen is, but it's just, they're coming with a tremendous amount of money. Everyone's like, bitch, use logic. It doesn't make, your entire family for generations is going to be set up. And she's like, nah. She's like, nah.

And it's like, you can't, that, that's like, even when you watch this and you see the level of violence, which I don't think they really showed, people wouldn't watch it if they showed the intensity of it. And it just, when you bring it to now, current, modern day, there's people that you know that I know their parents, their families are getting beat the shit out of on the street right now because they're Asian. And so when I watch this show and I'm like, wow, murder, rape, war, fucking with you, fucking with you, bullying, bullying. Let's beat up Asian people on the street. Let's fuck with them. It's like, hate will never win,

man. Hate never wins. It's like we come back so much stronger over and over again. The resilience, the strike me down, I come back like, like, it's just insane. Like, like when, when I think about my parents, my grandparents, my journey on this planet with the LA riots, with the Japanese occupation, with all the shit that's happening right now with COVID and people beating the shit out Asian people on the street, killing them, pushing them on the train tracks. It's like, you don't want to fuck with us, man. You don't want to fuck with us. Like, love will win. We'll come back. We'll keep our head down. We'll fucking eat shit.

We'll fucking use names that you want to call us. We will sit there and let you shit on us over and over again. And one day when you're not ready, K-pop, Parasite, Dave Chang, Dave Cho, like, Pacino. Like,

it's just, you're going to be like, how the fuck did this tiny little country do all this? Like, it's the fucking anger and vengeance and rage. Yeah, that's it. But it's not just like, it's repressed. You repress it and then you use that.

And it's like, I don't want to live like that anymore. You know, so that's why I know. You're extremely wealthy now, Dave. That's why. That doesn't matter. You know, you know some of the richest people on the planet. That didn't change anything. They didn't get rich and then all of a sudden be like, oh, yeah, all my problems are solved.

They're still angry. They still have all that shit. The money, you know, it just. We got fatter, that's all. I'm just saying, I want to read the book because I want to know the Hana plot line a little bit more, because Grace was like, this is a little bit different than what's happening in the book. So I think that's important. Do you please talk about the rice now?

Now we're going to episode three. We have to talk about the rice. Okay, we're going to get, so it's just important to note that like it goes back to the boarding house because Sunja's parents in Youngdo, they run a boarding house. So you have a lot of, and we should talk about it. in the first episode where someone dies because they're saying unpatriotic things about Japan, which, again, is an important theme in this series. She gets pregnant.

Then Kyeonghi, Sungja's sister-in-law dies of cancer, and you see the Moksanaim. Moxenim is pastor. I just, I mean, again, like, I didn't expect Christianity. I wondered if it plays more of a role in the book than it does in the series, because it's not that apparent in the series. right? I mean, it's there. It's not, yeah, they don't hit you over the head with it, but, you know, just like I said, and just the naming of the kids and like how how much it's revered, it's there, you know? And then you get the introduction, we already spoke about it. Kohansu doesn't want to marry Sungja. So if she doesn't get married, especially then she's going to be seen as an outcast or a lot of

bad things would happen. And then Isaac, Isaac, comes off the boat and he's very, ill and he almost dies. So that's pretty much like most of the episode three, right? It's talking about, you know, getting pregnant, going back to 1989, Kyeonghi dying of cancer, getting the watch, right? Sonja gets the watch from Kohanzu, which plays a significant role later in the series. So let's talk about the rice. Thank you, God. The woman that refused to sell to Solomon, the little shitty house in Osaka or Tokyo that she won't sell, right? She reminds me of all of my, you know, ajima's in my life, as I'm sure you do too, right? Like, stubborn, has many grandkids now, and it's just like not in it for the money, but just on principle, she's like, fuck you guys.

Fuck you, Japan. I'm not giving you fucking shit. So Solomon gets Sungja to, like, convince this other hunger. to sell. And this is like, hey, she won't sell because it's everyone trying to make this deal with her is always Japanese or white, you know? Let's bring another gook in to fucking, you know, go up the deal. And then maybe he'll do it because he's going to relate to her because he also has a harmony

and the whole thing. But, you know, yeah, I know other harmonies and ajima is like that. And this is peppered throughout the whole series of just, it doesn't make any sense. It's like, just don't talk shit about Japanese people or just don't. don't use this language or just don't wear this or just don't do that. And then we won't kill you. And yet the pride keeps coming. It's like, you can't tell us what to do.

I don't give a fuck. I'll die before I do anything that, you know, and that comes through with this, with this episode. It's a total fuck you mentality. And again, if I've downplayed the acting, it's not my intent. It is simply like there's so much fucking shit in this series to talk about that I'm not trying to underestimate the acting because the acting really conveys the fuck you to Japan, you know, like in a very subtle way. It's like, especially episode three, it's all total fuck

you. But I don't know. I have, I have so much, for me, I have so much gratitude towards Japanese people. And I'm not the man I am today without all the stuff that happened to me in Japan. And so, listen, when I landed Japan, truth be told, I feel more at home than I do when I go in Korea. I do too. I love Japan. I love, I love, they have. And that's why I hung out with more Japanese kids growing up than Koreans because they had better robots, toys, they had better candy and better chips. And so you and me just sitting here talking about Japanese, white, it's like race, race, who gives a fuck? Race gets so boring. I'm talking about racists.

People who are fucking straight up rice Nazis, racists. Not racist, racists. My mom is a racist. I grew up with tons of racist. I'm sitting there. I don't know because I'm not a racist. I'm eating brown rice. I'm eating the shitty rice.

I'm eating, they're like, ill, don't eat that rice. I'm like, what do you mean? It all tastes the same to me. To grow up like that and have someone go like, I can't eat at that restaurant. I'm like, the food was amazing. Yeah, but the rice was shit. It's just these fucking super snobb rice people,

the same way some people are like snobby about bread. Like, this isn't good bread or whatever. Holy fuck does that come out in this episode? When she like takes the bite and she's like, holy fuck it's nutty the mouth feel the taste and the you know solomon's just like i don't know what you're talking about grandma and she's like this shit's from our country this shit was like i'm like holy fuck dude she's right this scene was this scene was extremely powerful did i cry like a baby yes but the other how many who basically was like shut the fuck up solomon crush it on acting

yes yeah but yeah like i was coming up right it keeps coming up at the end of the war It keeps coming up for... Rice is a symbol of life in both Korean, all of Asian culture, right? Like, I always remember my dad's mom saving every grain of rice. Always, every grain of rice. Any white rice that we didn't eat, she would preserve and save. And it's something I didn't understand, right? And I think watching this allowed me to empathize a lot more.

I was able to empathize in other ways. If we didn't eat the rice, they'd use it as glue. Yeah. But eating rice then was like as precious and as expensive as anything. And I don't think it's possible for us to ever really understand just how rare that was. I think all of that was like if you have listened to this podcast up to now and you're like, Chang and Cho have ruined this show for me. I'm never watching it.

Just watch episode three. Just for the rice scenes. Well, listen, if we ruined this fucking show for you, you were probably going to hate it anyway because you suck. No, but seriously, like to show like how important food is and the quality of food and where... That's what I want to get to is food is a constant theme. And I think at least the first three or four episode, it's one of the best food movie series I've ever seen. Yeah, for sure. There's so much cooking.

It's a cooking is life, right? That's just how you communicate, at least in Korean culture, at least how I grew up. But rice in general, right? with the with the hominy talking about how she carried this rice in suitcases like you have to understand that any time any Korean person goes anywhere even today they're packing food they're packing so like two other themes I think are central to this episode in this series is the idea shame and the idea of nostalgia right the heartache of home right which can be good and bad and I think another as a kid going back and forth my mom would pack my suitcase

with, I'm like, they got stores in Korea. They couldn't, and they're like, no, not this shit. And then vice versa, bringing it back. And yeah, I mean, just wanting that exact thing from, like, people are like that here in America where they're like, oh, that McDonald's is better than that one on, on Western or whatever. It's, they want the food from their store, from their country. And, oh, my God, it's the best way to watch this show.

is get on postmates, fucking queue up the show, and then order Korean food while you watch the show because, and some Japanese food too, because you have to eat kimchi while watching the show. Like, kimchi is like a central tenant of this whole thing. But fuck, dude, I never thought I would cry that much over rice because it just, it hit home. It's such a powerful, powerful, powerful, powerful scene. And like, how could you think that with rice? But you can. It's, it's, it's just one of those things. Like I've seen my father when he was alive cry over a bull in Nengian, you know, and we were

in, I can't remember the spot in Kreatown. It was when I was a kid, but he was like, this tastes exactly like home. Right. And the irony is, and this is what is so conveyed in the terrific acting, when you watch the show, it's like, why would anybody want to go back home? Nothing but terrible shit happened at home.

But the longing is there. It's like, for whatever reason, that, that, that, that, that desire to like think about home is so powerful. I mean, why do you think I'm here? You know, like every year I sit down,

I go, wow, what a fucking insane life I've lived where I can live anywhere in the world in any place with, you know, and I go, wow, my house has been robbed four times since I live,

you know, moved to this neighborhood. And I live in a nice neighborhood. And there's the homeless problem, you know, I think there's like 60, 000 homeless in L.A. I don't know if that number has changed.

And it's just like, I can straight up move to paradise and enjoy my life. And nostalgia and growing up in this neighborhood and growing up in LA keeps me here. Like I fucking hate Los Angeles and I love it at the same time in the same way where I wanted to hate this show Pachinko. And then I fucking loved it. I can't believe how much money they threw at this show because it looks very expensive. Well, listen, we were paying for the show with their fucking iPhones. that scene was so powerful, right?

And the lines that were dropped by, it's Solomon, Yunya Zhang, and the other grandma there. And it was like so, so fucking. It was one of the highlights in the whole series. And it's definitely at the eating the rice scene. I think it's going to be a very famous moment.

You should all like wash it a couple times because there's just so many good lines in that. The Hongmany is saying, like, when Yunyan Zhang was like, I haven't been back to Korea, it would be too weird. And the other Hong Kongan is like, you got to like smell, when you land or you get to your place and you smell your own food, you hear the own language. That feeling I have experienced it is like intoxicating.

You know, you feel like even though you're yopo, you feel like you're at home. You know what I mean? And that's a, the idea. of home again is a central theme. I was wondering like, you know, Solomon doesn't have a home, right? He's not American. He's not Korean. He's not Japanese. But he's, you know, he's all of these things. And the acting was so good in the scene because his eyes were like, what the fuck's going on? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know what the fuck's going on. Why my grandma's crying over rice.

I have no idea why the other grandma who I'm trying to give all these millions of dollars to is being a total fucking asshole to me. You know? And not many words were exchanged. Yeah. The line, though, that I think encompassed to me so much of who you are and for me is when they say, the grandma goes to Solomon, I don't know, the grandma goes like, you really think that you being this rich, up-and-coming Korean person in Japan that's going to, like, affect change. You really think you're going to do this shit. You really think people give a shit who you are. you know he's like you think that after all of these years of being screwed over raped killed

murdered you think that's going to fucking change now you think they give a shit about you now even though you're Korean and Solomon stubbornly as stubborn as she is says yes and he says things are different now this is the most Han Korean Han fucking line in the whole fucking movie is their turn to account to us like I feel that way. I know you feel that way, at least a Japanese culture. It's like, no, no, no, no. It's not even Japanese culture.

It's like culture at large. Like, no, no, no, no. I'm going to do my fucking shit and they're going to, like, be beholden to me because of whatever the fuck I'm going to do. Like, that was like extraordinary acting. Like, I thought that was just so powerful. Because I was like, I wasn't expecting that scene where it was about nostalgia of eating a fucking simple bowl of right.

right to then go into straight up Han anger of like fuck you grandma you know what the fuck do you know yeah i was like shut the fuck up like make the deal happen but you couldn't he can hold back the han you know and i think that like you're solomon i'm solomon that's that's who we are in this story and then i'm watching this and like you said you're like this guy's a stranger in a strange land. Like, that's who, that's who we've been. Like, we're not Japanese. We're not Korean. We're not American. We're like, like, just, we're like displaced, you know? I've felt like a refugee my whole life just to the point where I just got to hitchhiking. Like, I was like, I don't know where I belong. And I think that if you're an American, whether your first, second,

third, fourth, fifth, 20th generation, someone came over here from somewhere unless you're Native American. So that, that feeling of being displaced and that, not knowing who you are and where you belong. I think that transcends just being Korean or Japanese. Like, there's so many friends that I have from Mexico and India and other countries where it's the same story. It's just like,

what am I? Am I Indian American or am I just American? Or am I just, you know, and it's just at some point, you just have a, or at least for me, you just have a breakdown the way Solomon had a breakdown at the subway station and you just,

you just fucking start dancing or whatever your version of a breakdown is. You just find, you find your, you're like, I don't have a country. I don't have. Well, that's what I'm trying to say is like what this show fucking nails on top of all the things, like the historical accuracy. And again, why I wanted to talk about the acting in the fucking excellence of it is I found that it was the closest thing I've ever seen or felt even from reading a book of what it liked to feel as an other.

And that's ever a lot of that. gets thrown around on a fucking long. Right. Otherness. Right. But Koreans have it in a specific fucking way. Right. And I was like, I, I, I, I, it just is like, I was like, fuck, man.

Like, I know what that is. I know what that feels like. Right. And it's, and it's not just through Solomon. It's from Sunja. It's from Isak. It's from every fucking character that's in here. They all acted their fucking asses off.

I think, I think this show has an ability. if people, I hope, I hope people love it as much as I did, has an ability, because that, that otherness and feeling like left out, it just, I felt like it was a hard watch. I felt triggered, like, crazy watching it. And then at the end, just like, oh, man, I need a cigarette or I need to start smoking. Or, like, I felt hope. I felt inspiration. I felt like, I don't know, I felt strong.

I felt like I wanted to go out and, like, you know. Dude, you never seen anything like this before? You know? I mean, honestly, like, I can't believe, you know, I don't need to go into my Star Wars bit, but like when I watch Star Wars, I've already said it on your podcast. Like, there's a sign in my head that just says, keep Star Wars white, keep all people of color out of Star Wars so I can just enjoy this white show. Every time I see, you know, Kelly Tran or even, I forgot the guy, actor's name,

the black guy. I'm like, oh, there's going to be all this other baggage that comes with that from other. So then I can't enjoy this, but this was just, fuck all that. Here's like,

I'm so amazed that the show got made. I'm actually, I was offended at some point that they didn't ask you and I to be in it, but we would have ruined it. I'm like, I look like the cleft palate, dad, but I'm like,

you know what? Everyone's already going to think they're in the show. Can I just say, what I don't know. He was, let's talk about this. Most underrated. We were in the show anyway, so it doesn't matter, right?

Most underrated character in the first three episodes, I'm going to say the dad. Hooney. Yeah. What a sweetheart. Yeah. Amazing. Just like a sweet, sweet man. And the lines that he says to his daughter, the baby child, Sunja, was like, I was just like, I was just like, I was crying.

I was crying. I was crying. Because he's just like, I will, I'm going to cry now. He's talking about like, I just in this world where there's shit. it everywhere. I mean, paraphrasing, like, I want her to see acts of kindness. I want her to have this, this and this. And I'll always be that as long as I'm alive. Yeah. Acrifice. I mean, to me, I think what might get lost is his performance, which again, like in the book, I don't even know how large of a role that is, but I was like, I thought he was like one of the,

they're all super, super good performances, but I liked him a lot. I just thought as a dad, I was like, I love this guy. Yeah. No. He killed it, like every line he had. And it's just like, it's so easy for, for me and like other immigrants to be like angry at their parents because they're stuck where they're stuck. And just like, just recently, this is like a week ago. It's been suggested to me before and I just was like, I'm never going to do this, was to finally have a conversation with my parents with a translator. And I was like, I'm never going to do that. And my parents, their English is horrible.

it's gotten worse over the years because they live in Korea town. They don't have to speak English. And my Korean used to be at like a junior high level. Now it's probably like a second or third grade. For me to sit down and have like a conversation about our family and how we got here and all the traumas and all the fucked up shit they did to me and I did to them with a translator there was straight up comedy tragedy, you know, because it's just we don't know all the things that they did for us because they don't tell us.

right? And then when you talk to someone who doesn't speak perfectly your language, you don't really try to, you change what you say to them. You don't really try to go deep with them. So this, this show for me was extremely cathartic and healing in that way because I'm like things that I just heard whispers about or shit stories from my aunts and uncles about what my parents were like and what they did and what my grandparents did. And then just to see this and just see a lot, it filled in a lot of the gaps and holes. I was just, I was just blown away. Like, I was blown away by the show.

And Coronada is such a different filmmaker than Justin. Like, that guy's a straight-up poet, the way he does shit. And Justin's style is completely different. For me, it worked. For me, it just, I was like, I don't know how this is going to be coherent. For me, it worked. Once again, Nico Muley, I don't even know if I'm saying your last name right. So who do you think was the, like, the MVP of the first three episodes?

Well, dude, you bring. up the dad. Fuck. I mean, he's underrated. He's the, he's the, he's the underrated performance because it's like, he's just like the anti-Korean dad. You know what I mean? This is like one of those things like where, you know, just, I'm about to say Sunja,

but then every generation of Sunja killed it, the grandma, the teenager. Well, yeah, I mean, it's clear episode one, baby Sunja, Sunja crushed it. she's like so fucking good oh my god awesome jinhaha is awesome i mean every i can't even there there was it's a powerful cast i don't you know i listen yenya jang if you're not familiar is like they always say like the maryl street but like she's an extraordinary her life her real life her life story is actually

more amazing than her career which is like a best in class but like she is beloved because she's like that good at acting. And if you watch this, you will understand that. I'm not giving her her MVP award for the first of the episodes until later. I think she clearly is like crushing it. Before she crushes, I was crying during that. I'm saying like a baby, baby Sunja crushed it. She wins episode one.

Episode two, I'm going to give to teenage Sinja. She's so good. I guess she's a first-time actress. Yeah, she's so good. The actors are fucking good. I'm going to also say, Jinha is so good. Jinha is Solomon.

And you know what? I'm also going to give a big shout out to the token white guy in the series. Solomon's boss, who's very good. I've seen him in some things. I thought he was in Radiohead or something, but he killed. He's a West World. Yeah, he killed that, like, snarky, like, entitled white dude position.

Well, we did it. I didn't think we'd cover. I mean, it's a miracle that I didn't spoil like every episode because I, dude, I can't wait to talk about episode seven. I think it's an important show, clearly for Koreans. It's not an important show. It's the best show on TV. It's like, yes, it's important, but watch it because you want to fucking watch. Well, it's funny.

It's entertaining. Listen, it is all of these things, but the reason why I think it is the best show on TV or the best thing I've seen in a while is because, it has something to say. Yeah, that's why. There's a lot of people, there's a lot of movies, TV shows, people that have things to say that are important, but they're boring. They're not interesting. And it's like, the performances are amazing. Like, I didn't, I was, I was really so happy that, wow, these actors are so fucking good, you know, and they're, and they're Korean. I was so happy about that. This is this, like, like, and that's a guarantee. I guarantee this is going to fucking clean house at the end.

And it deserves all of it. They went for it. They went hard. Every single actor here is going to win. The director, they're just going to, they're going to sweep. If this was a betting thing, we should just put money on it right now. Yeah. They'll win everything.

Best supporting, best directing, best... Because you know why, listeners? You want to know why? Koreans are better and everything. And I'm not the only... The reason we know that is because Rima Williams in the movie, said that. Koreans are the perfect race. Who said that? Rima Williams said that?

Yeah, the white guy. They had a white guy playing the master. Yeah, yeah. So a white, so that's, so a white guy playing. A white guy basically said that Koreans are the perfect race, even though he's playing a Korean dude. And then what did Rima Williams do? He started running a father. Yeah. So, if you haven't watched Rima Williams, I highly suggest you watch it because. Please go watch

Pacino and Remo Williams and batteries not included. By the way, that is like the best fucking pull I've done in years. Yeah, that's a great pull. That was amazing. All right, Joe. What do we have to tell to, what do we have to let people know? We're doing, I think, episode four, five, and six, and then we're going to do seven and eight. I want to just do seven, man.

Because I don't think Apple's releasing this, they're releasing episode one, two, and three at once. and then they're going to do one at a time. So this is going to be the longest podcast of this prestige. And listen, I think we're going to take a lot of credit between me and you. I'll tell you exactly, you know, I don't care if I get in trouble. Bill Simmons called me and said, Dave, do you want to fucking review this show of Pachinko? I'm like, absolutely not. I don't want to watch it.

The poster looks very goofy to me. I don't want to watch it. It makes me feel like I'm going to be re-traumatized by some shit. My mom or dad said to me, I am really enjoying watching Yellowstone and 1883 right now. I don't want, and he's like, you can review that too.

I'm like, I don't want to do any reviews. He sent me, Pachinko, I watched it. It is the fucking best show on TV. I like it better than 1883. I like it better than Yellowstone.

I like it better than Game of Thrones. It's the fucking best show on TV. I cannot believe a show like this exists. And we'll leave it at that. We've now taken almost, we've taken almost two hours of your life. Oh, fuck. And actually, Justin and Cogranada, I got to get up early because I got to go act tomorrow with Steve Young and Ali Wong.

Yeah, that's right. I'm acting now. That's how you know we have jumped the shark. We have jumped the shark for real. Dave chose actually a fucking real bona fide actor. And that's why this is actually important to note. We are not yet in Korea sort of level of competition because in Korea, they're really fucking a lot of Asians that are actors and are really fucking good at it.

And here we have Dave Cho. And myself, I've actually acted in Tremay and we suck. I suck at acting. It's why it was canceled. I saw you in billions, bro. I saw you in billion. Didn't ask me back. All right.

All right. Love you, man.