The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Perry Mason’

Episode Date: July 21, 2020

It took a few episodes to warm up, but ‘Perry Mason,’ starring Matthew Rhys, is a gritty and captivating detective show that doesn’t stick too close to the original series. Hosts: Chris Ryan and Juliet Litman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Order now at order. dot sweetgreen.com. Welcome to TV concierge, the ringer's guide to the vast television landscape. Man, is there a lot to watch? I'm Juliette. And today I am joined by TV aficionado, aspiring legal mind.

Chris Ryan, Chris, we are here to discuss Perry Mason on HBO. Give me the pitch on Perry Mason. Juliet, you will not object to Perry Mason on HBO. Hey, so this show has been on for about a month now. It stars Matthew Reese, who a lot of people know from the Americans and from paparazzi photos with Carrie Russell. He is... And hold on. What?

Brothers and Sisters. And brothers and sisters, yes. Great show. Do not erase brothers and sisters. Me and Greg Burlanti will not have it. So when Perry Mason first came on, I talked about this on the watch, but I felt like it was a show searching for its own identity, that it felt a lot like kind of a weird off-brand, true detective with this really traumatized. dark anti-hero Perry Mason, who was a detective and not a lawyer, as we are familiar with the titular character to be in the long-running TV series with Raymond Burr. And everybody was kind of like,

it just felt like it wanted to be something it wasn't. You know, it wanted to be some kind of nouveau Chinatown, L.A. Noir, but it also had all this baggage of the Perry Mason intellectual property and that eventually it was going to have to do certain things. I don't know. It felt very uncomfortable with itself. But as the weeks have gone on, and as I have spent more and more time with it, I've come to love this show. I've come to really, yeah, at least really enjoy it. Well, I don't know what is love anymore. You know what I mean? Like, I haven't left my apartment very much in the last couple of weeks. So I guess I love Perry Mason. It's like, it's like, you know, your standards change. But really what I'm really excited about is the fact that it's a really good mystery.

There's attendance stuff with it, a lot of like social examination of the country at the time and the obvious echoes it has with our country now that it handles at varying degrees of satisfaction. But what I'm really here for is this conspiratorial murder mystery that involves upstart church in Los Angeles led by Tadiana Mizlani and her mother played by Lily Taylor, who kind of have like an almost Pentecostal healer vibe. and they have gotten involved in the case of the Dodson's and their dead child, Charlie, and have sort of stumped up for the innocence of the mother of the child, Emily Dodson, who's being accused of the murder. And Perry Mason, after this last week's episode, has now become involved in an official capacity as a lawyer. So we have now landed the Perry plane in the lawyer airport, and we are in the courtroom. Interesting. So in the original Perry Mason, does he go from one profession to another?

No, I think this is his origin story, right? So I mean, I cannot claim to be a Perry Mason completist. But the first few episodes of the season are about how he is this kind of PTSD suffering World War I veteran who drinks too much, you know, has left his family or his family has kicked him out. He's a private detective working for John Lithgow's lawyer and is just kind of doing like really seedy work, like taking me. pictures of people cheating on their spouses and stuff like that. And then by this... Is this just one extended Perry Mason universe? You say it's an origin story. Is this the same character?

Yes. I mean, it's based on the character that the TV... Yeah, it's... I think they were novels initially, but these are characters... Oh, I see. Okay. This is the character. It's Perry and Della are in the show.

And it's like, Perry's the lawyer. And Della's his sort of associate and they're... His Watson? Yeah, is Watson, essentially. But this show is just really effective. at keeping this mystery going. And that is, knowing that it's only eight episodes,

the fifth episode just aired, and knowing that, you know, it feels like a contained story, whereas, like, you know, I think what will happen is if this show winds up keeping,

keeping on, it'll probably just do a new case every season. Sure. But I don't know. You know, it's just guy, it has elements of James Elroy, it has elements of, uh,

the night of kind of in terms of its like compressed one case story. And it's bringing in some, like, race and gender and religion, which is you can take relief. But the central mystery is really compelling, and I'm glad it's on. So case of the week is a very familiar format here in America, and it's powered some of my favorite legal and medical shows, namely The Good Wife, which was a really strong case of the week show at its core. Case of the season is really very British. It's case of the series. And you look at shows like Broadchurch or even my mom and Frank Catherine's favorite

at Grantchester, and they really commit to, like, one arc that lasts the season, and then they move on. It's a little bit easier for a show because they're shorter, usually six episodes or so. But I think that's a format that I would like to see a lot more of here on American streaming television, and I mean, Perry Mason's still going weekly on HBO. Yeah, especially since it's only eight episodes, I believe, and it's, so that's a lot less of a commitment than like a 12-episode case. Yeah. And I do think that like procedural shows, like, that's the future for them. Because if you don't have to do 22 episodes of a season,

and by the way, coming to a TV concierge, I'm watching Heart of Dixie on Netflix, which was a CW show, and it has 75 episodes over four seasons, and it's like a lot. It's crazy. That's the way that TV writers

were asked to conceive of their shows. Like, that's absolutely bonkers now that you think about it. I remember when... It explains the format. When the high fidelity writers, who had done a lot of work on network shows, came in to talk to me little bit about working on high fidelity. They were like doing a season of streaming is so easy

compared to having to write 22 episodes of a television show. It's crazy. Doing like 10 episodes is like light work. And then like you think about shows that like burned hot and bright from season one, namely the OC and 90210, the original, where they were so popular that the writers were asked to extend the season just to like pump out more content. It's like so crazy. But then you think about a show like Perry Mason where you weren't show or about it, but there's one arc throughout the season. there aren't that many episodes. So I can jump in right now, which I think I'm going to based on your recommendation. But it's also like just like low lift.

Like you don't have to really worry like, oh, God, like do I care enough about this particular lawyer to see them do legal work case week and week out for their case of the week? Well, they maybe in retrospect, smartly, waited until the middle of the season to introduce him as a lawyer. And in fact, last night, my wife, Phoebe and I were watching this. And we had this sinking feeling that we were going to have to watch him go to law school. Turns out in the 1930s, you just had to apprentice with someone. That's like Kim Kardashian right now.

She's just apprenticing. Apparently California is one of the only states where that's allowed. Perry Mason maxed that out. He was just hanging out with John Lithgow and then he took the bar and is now a lawyer. Let's talk about both of those actors, Matthew Reese first. Okay. What Matthew Reese are we getting? Are we getting like brooding sad Philip from the Americans?

Are we getting sort of like Fun Brother from Brothers and Sisters? Are we getting the wine guy from his show with Matthew Good where they traveled all over Gereup drinking wine? Like which Matthew Reese is this? It's an Aaron Sorkin character with Nick Pizzolato's clothes.

So it's like three-day stubble, hangover constantly, cursing, you know, dealing with the just absolute like dregs of humanity. But underneath all of that is this like essentially good person, an incredible orator, and somebody who's going to fight for justice, et cetera, et cetera. Interesting. Interesting. This also, as you describe this for some reason, I don't know why I do

this frequently on this podcast. I like, I match the show with, I think, their appropriate network. And as we discuss it, I'm kind of just like, why isn't Perry Mason on Amazon? This sounds like an Amazon show to me. The Amazon version of this would probably be closer to Bosch. And I bet they would have just cut, he would have already been a lawyer. And, you know, Amazon does do some period stuff. But I think it's also worth noting that the HBO money printer is definitely in effect here where the 1930s Los Angeles. And to be fair, there's still lots of parts of Los Angeles that remain unchanged from this era because that's had that's so much of like the sort of, yeah, like the Sunset Gower Lots. Yeah. And the visual kind of identity of this city in a lot

of ways is wrapped up in that. So there's lots of really cool LA somewhat special effects sometimes, but they shoot, it seems like they shot in and around LA for a lot of this stuff and some Central Valley stuff. So it's, that part is really cool. And it kind of is like the LA version of boardwalk empire and in that, in that way. Um, John Lithgow. I mean, talk about a man with a long and varied career. What's the defining John Lithgow performance to you? Huh. That's a great question. I don't know. I mean, he's just been such a constant presence, right? Yeah, he's almost like the Vince Carter of acting. I just feel like Vince Carter, like, transcends team.

It's just sort of like he is, you know. He is obviously the Raptors really cared about him, but I think to the later people who just follow our players, he's also had such like a Ted Dansonian second life in streaming where I feel like he's been on tons of stuff recently. Yeah, so I, you know, I think this is just a lot of it's about your age. To me, he'll always be the third rock guy. But he took a real turn on Dexter.

in the absolute best season of Dexter. He was amazing. He was scary. He was great. And then he's amazing as Winston Churchill in the crown. Fantastic. And, but he has so many credits. He's got so many nominations.

He was very good in bombshell last year. I mean, he's been in so many things. I'm curious, like, which John Lithgow are we getting in this show? Yeah. I mean, it's definitely that sort of, it's this sort of more, this second phase of his career and not like the third rock from the sun. Like, I'm not that there was anything wrong with that, but I feel like he has really just started to like pick very, very interesting roles and get to do really interesting stuff over the last like five to 10 years. Another shout out, Juliette Core is Juliet Rylance, who plays Della and she's fantastic.

Oh my God. Shea Wiggum's also in this show. So, yeah, there's a lot of really good. Ship me to Australia where her character is from the Nick. I'm ready to go. And I just say Tadiana Mizlani is giving like an absolutely, that's Chris Ryan Corps. 10 out of 10 performance right now. So yeah, I highly recommend the show. I'm going to watch it. I'm also going to recommend it to my mother, 10 that she's going to love it. Um, HBO, having a moment, I would say. Good stuff happening on HBO. And HBO Max, great service.

Yes, absolutely. Not really related as it's come to light, but you can get all these things on HBO Max. So why not? Yeah, so that's my recommendation. I'm going to definitely check it out. Thanks so much, Chris. And thanks to you for listening. More TV concierge to come later in the week. I think.