The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Pluribus’ Episode 7: The Parallel Journeys of ‘The Gap’

Episode Date: December 13, 2025

Jo and Rob traversed the gap to give you their thoughts on the latest episode of Apple TV’s ‘Pluribus’. (0:00) Intro (2:24) The odyssey of Episode 7 (12:18) Questions from the inbox (29:09) Act 1: Carol’s best day (37:04) Act 2: The Manousos journey (50:34) Carol’s patriotism Email us! [e-mail] or [e-mail] Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Prestige TV Podcast and so much more! Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney Producer: Donnie Beacham Jr. Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Video Supervision: Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to the Press News TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson. I'm Rob Mahoney. We're here in person, talk about episode seven, The Gap. What is the Gap? Yeah, Rob, what or what could that episode title mean, do you think? I don't know. I feel like it could refer to a great many things.

I like to think of it as, you know, maybe the gap between all of us as we isolate ourselves and certainly as these two characters are kind of drifting further apart philosophically. You don't think Carol and her new sort of like embrace materialism phase went to the gap? Oh, she definitely might have. I mean, look, definitely kind of gap style at times. Yeah. Could it have anything to do with the thing we got one million emails about last week, the Darien Gap? Judging by our inbox, it is possible.

It does seem like that could be a consideration that may be dealt with in this episode. Okay, so we're here to talk about Pluribus episode seven, The Gap, written by Jen Carroll, directed by Adam Bernstein, in which we check in on Carol over the scope of a month, and then presumably Menusos on a month. month long journey up to from Paraguay to New Mexico. Guys, you cannot drive there directly. So we have learned. So we have learned. This is an educational process for us, Joe.

Thank you for all your emails about the Darien Gap. Some of them were very polite. Some of them were rude, but that's okay. We appreciate all of that. But if we didn't know about the Darian Gap before, we'd certainly know about it now. We do. I just want to say really quickly, we did get one email about the TV show Long Way Up, which is the E.M. McGregor TV show where he and his friend Charlie took motorcycles from

the tip of South America up to Los Angeles. Did I watch that show? Yes. Did I not finish that show? Correct. Episode 8 is when they encountered the Darian Gap and I did not get there. Should have done your due diligence. How do you feel about us doing a travel, a travelogue show, Joe?

Oh. Can it be wine-based? It can be wine-based. It can be Dary and Gap-based if you like. I mean, this did seem a little perilous for my taste. And certainly we couldn't be driving through it, but maybe that's a hiking, not bottle episode, but a little side quest. All right.

How are your machete skills? Not great at carterizing. Okay. That part I'm not looking forward to. Okay. Everything we learned from our lovely listeners about cannibalism and the Dary and Gap aside, how did you like this episode? I fucking loved it.

I thought that's just like one of the most beautiful episodes of TV I've seen this year. Yeah. And hit a lot of boxes for me. I know everyone is coming to Plyurbus for something very different. And there's, I'm sure, a viewer of the shows, like, I just want to, want to find out the next steps with the virus, with the aliens, hypothetically, with whatever is happening in this show.

This is like the deconstruction of our two most human characters, or at least central human characters. And it's shot in a way where I'm just like, good Lord, like the Chilean coastline. Good Lord. These like the beautiful kind of like scenescapes of an apocalypse effectively. And using those two advantage to indicate the isolation of these characters, but also the beauty and the natural wonder of these spaces. And like, it kind of is laying out the argument for and against humanity at the same time just by how beautiful this episode is.

Oh, I love that. Something that, you know, I like to do, obviously, as you know, is sort of scrub through the official pod. Sometimes those tidbits are just extra, you know, cherry on the cake of our discussion. But in this case, I think Adam Bernstein, who's the director of this episode, who was a frequent Breaking Bad, a director, a better call Saul, director. In fact, directed our hooked episode for Breaking Bad. Correct. Yeah. And is a music video.

director as well. And so his history directing like the Love Shack music video for the B-52s, Hey Ladies for the Beastie Boys, Baby Got Back for Sir Mix a lot. Like this is a guy. But like his... So he's directed a lot of different kinds of landscapes as you're alluded

to a baby got back. But I think his use of sort of visual storytelling quick edits, musicality, all of that really works inside of this episode. Also hearing how they shot it over time. some of it in Spain, some of it across different, you know, states somewhat out of order.

So for the actors to have to, you know, for Vesca who plays Minos, for him to get into the right emotional space based on where he's driving at what point in the timeline, there's just so much effort that went into making this incredible episode. And something that I thought that was so interesting that Adam Bursey talked about having worked with Vince's crew through Breaking Bad, through Better Call Saul, is that they have this kind of unofficial. motto in the writer's room, which is, can we do this scene with no dialogue? Yeah. Like that they'll write a scene and they'll be like, but can we do it with no dialogue? And this episode is a real testament to that approach because I really feel like with Manusos especially, who we've spent less time with, we are on such and we just have to be with him emotionally through this largely silent trek that he takes.

And then when he does speak, which we'll talk about when we get there, it's so powerful. It's really amazing what they've already done with this character in, as you said, very limited screen time, certainly very limited dialogue time, actual human beings, muttering to himself in a rainforest a little bit more. The cat is gray. The cat is gray. But also, I think it's just a testament to Vince Gilligan and his casting directors in particular, Sharon Biali and Sherry Thomas. This feels like Ray Seahorn on Better Call Saul. It feels like the emergence of a fascinating, like naturalistic actor who is never boring. every time he's on screen, I just like am transfixed by whatever he is reacting to in that moment.

And it never feels like too much or too little. It's like I am just like so fully in this thing. And that's a product of great filmmaking. It's a product of great editing. Absolutely. But you can't do it if you can't hold the screen. Right. And for Veska to be doing that with frankly, like very little on the page to read.

I think it's just remarkable acting work from him so far. I want to shout out to two other people on the production side to Yes, Ann You and say that Jen Carroll, who wrote this episode, this is her, first written by credit that she's ever had. So what a cool episode to have that on. And then Chris Mcaleb, who hosts the official podcast, is an editor on the show. And he edited this episode. So like the incredible work that he did putting together and the great work he does on that podcast.

So I just want to shout out Chris as well. But this is, I mean, I just thought this was like a masterpiece of television, really, really good stuff. And I think it, based on how you're reacting, I mean, I didn't listen to the watch, but I know that Chris and Andy were divided on this episode. because Chris told me that they were and he didn't really respond to it. And I know that like some people aren't responding to the show as a whole or this episode. But for me, it really hit what I really like about this. And a Gilligan show in particular where you are forced to really marinate in the emotional journey. So when we get to the point of Minosos's journey where he is injured bodily, where he can't go on anymore, I am. devastated in a way that I would not be if I hadn't, you know, watched him sort of suck all that gasoline out of cars and, like, do all the other things that he did along the way.

Do you know what I mean? Completely. I mean, it's taking these two characters to their absolute breaking points. And in doing so, like, something very human, right? Like, I think that kind of, the kind of growth we're seeing from any character. Like, that's something the hive mind can't do. Like, they are a static entity working to complete optimization in a lot of different ways. But, like, one thing I was wondering when watching this,

is like, can the hive mind even comprehend the contempt that Menusos has to set his own beloved car on fire just to prove a point? Is that like a thing that the hive mind understands of like, you're saying you understand that this is an important car to me? Right. I hate you saying that so much that I'm going to set it and the Virgin Mary on fire to spite you. Is that like, do you think that's something that's like within their realm of experience to collectively grasp? Are you saying that for Menusos, the car is Helen? Oh my God. And he's like, the audacity of you to say you understand my grief.

But there is some, I think there is something specifically to that of, look, in many ways as human beings, we are desperately yearning to be known. Yeah. And then when somebody is like overly familiar with you who doesn't actually know you, it triggers this reflexive anger in all of us that like the hive mind would not really have. Nothing on this planet is yours. You cannot give me anything because all that you have is stolen. you lighter click don't belong here. Sick. Like deeply sick.

Very, very good stuff from Minosos in this episode. I thought that was incredible. I mean, another benefit, as you mentioned, Joe, just like having such a quiet episode is when a character like Minnusos does speak up to other people, everything stops. Like, this is what I mean by his naturalistic acting style. I could have stayed in that moment of him lighting his lighter and just ready to torch his car in flames. I could have stayed like suspended in that moment for an hour because of just like him holding that scene, him holding that moment, the break in the dialogue, like the pacing of everything he's delivering, I think it's just really remarkable.

I think what's also incredible. And, you know, obviously we'll talk about what Carol's going through in this episode. But I think what's also incredible is the great tragedy of this episode, not just his failure. You know, basically like, I don't know, Christopher Nolan take notes. This is an odyssey. Like there's the failure that he experiences. And then also the tragedy of Carol holding out for so long. I know. And then collapsing back into the arms of the hive mind before he has a chance to get there. And the questions we're asking yourself, like, will, you know, he's going to be perhaps airlifted to her doorstep. We don't know what the hive mind's going to do against his wishes, but that might happen. And then is he going to be like, oh, you are just like one of them? Do you know?

And that's devastating because she held out by herself feeling like she's all alone in the world for so long. here comes someone who wants to be on your team and the timing is just just not right. I know. I joke about the gap, but like it is there and it's widening between them despite the fact that,

you know, Menusos was so inspired by Carol's tapes and was like, has been him making the effort to go through the gap. You're right. Is an Odyssey, is incredible to watch, is devastating in the end of him

finally reaching for the drone heavens for help. Yeah. Like him having to make that concession is like gut level painful. in the same way that Carol collapsing into Zosha's arms has got level painful. You would love to see a world in which these characters can hold out the appropriate amount of time

to be just successful and valiant enough, but that's like just not what Pluribus is right now. That's not what humanity often is. Bad news for all of us, but yes. I think that also the, to have both of them have these sort of like eye in the sky moments, like we've had these drone bits of comedy throughout, but this idea that Carol has to write a message

that, you know, the gods can see. And Minuso's has to sort of reach up to the heavens. And we have all that, you know, there's like a shot of Carol with the clouds behind her backlit. Very knives out, very wake up dead man, right? We need that for our set day. Can we get some steepling light through the window, please? Yeah, some natural lighting inside of the studio, please. And then, you know, and Minuso's having to like look up to the heavens, the Virgin Mary iconography, him sleeping in a church.

There's just very much like the hive mind as God. Yes. underlined bold italics inside of this episode. Which, I mean, isn't it? You know, like at the point where you can, you can snap your fingers and a red gatorade descends from the heavens, like, it is a godlike figure or future. It is not ice cold.

You know what? Even God is a little flawed sometimes. It isn't quite deliver in the ways you might want, but in the ways you might need, it's better to drink a tepid drink than an ice cold drink if you're that parched. But his resentment of, you know, when they're saying, like, you're going to New Mexico, right? To see Carol, you know, and he was just like,

his resentment of like, how dare you? I haven't spoken to any of you. I know. How dare you know my plans? And how dare you reveal to me that you know my plans? It was just like really good stuff. The playoffs are here. And you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts.

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See terms at vandual.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Let's go through some email stuff. Like we mentioned, we got a lot of emails about cannibalism and the Dary and Gap. We'll talk about some of it. And pigeons, which apparently do eat their own young sometimes. So I'm just throwing that out. The anti-pigeon contingent really showed up for you, Rob. And I like that for you.

Showed up for all of us. We're a nation divided. All right. Here's some questions, sort of generally. posed by the inbox. Will one of the unliked opt to get licked, as it were? Has Lachshmi already joined her son in the hive mind? I mean, narratively speaking, Lakshmi would be the only one who would make sense.

Like, we just haven't revisited any of those other characters. Right. And she, I think she has the poll with her son. I think she's shown that she's someone who might at least consider that. I think that's a real possibility. Okay. In terms of that conversation we had about consent, some of our listeners pointed out that, like, the hive mind does opt to leave Vegas even though Kumba's like, please stay, why won't you stay? So there are decisions that they can make that are counter.

I mean, I think our larger conversation still stands, but there are some moments where they can deny someone something. I think the catch for that for me is those people never opted to be in the hive mind to begin with. Right. If you sign up to be a part of the cult and then later want to backtrack on what the cult activities are, that's kind of one thing. But like, if you're not signing up for it, that initial wave of a consent is just obliterated. We are still getting some troubling pro-hive mind emails from a lot of them. Okay. I will say the most convincing for me. Yeah. In terms of pro-hive-mind emails we've been receiving are of the variety of like everything is fundamentally fucked in the world right now. Right. Our access to resources, our access to health. care, people like starving and suffering all over the world, that there is a bit of hubris in saying, like, our model is the best model. Absolutely. It's not working for a lot of people.

No. In our viewable. Being like, hey, consider your cushy podcaster job is not the job that most people have, et cetera, et cetera. Fair point. Privilege check. Genuinely fair. The point with that for me is not that those things aren't true and that what we have is

the best model. To me, it's just the only human model is like the only way we can. can really operate is not with the fundamental constraints of like those societal concerns, but some of the fundamental restraints that would be surrendered to a hive mind mentality. To your point is like if there were an opt in option, that's different. Yeah. Where we're told, hey, if you do this, there will be peace on earth and, you know, equality and all that sort of stuff.

Like you and I is, um, never mind, let's not get into politics. Okay. Also, a little credulous. Also, if your hive mind utopia has a 10 year expiration date, I don't know, maybe it's not a utopia. That was so funny. Some of our hive mind apologists were like, oh, just kidding. If it's only going to be 10 years, I don't want it.

Okay. We need a 15-year plan. That's what I'm saying. Here's a really important question I have. Is the actor Patrick Fabian getting royalties for every episode where they use the complete voicemail recording for Carol? One can only hope. I hope it's in his contract. Yep.

And then I just wanted to point out that Carol in this episode is doing a lot of things our listeners wrote it about. She went to the museum. Almost like to a checklist. Golfing, fine dining. Like this is what everyone wanted to do. I loved it. We need to hear from the golfers again. I will say, you know, going back to when we were our coverage of Fargo,

there was such a very clear example of a man who had never held a golf club before pretending to be a semi-professional golfer. Okay. Did not work? Racy Horn, I am not a golfer, but very clearly knows how to swing a club. Very clearly has at least spent some time on a driving range before. Did she Daniel DeLuess that shit and just like prepare that for this role? I would believe it.

Yeah. But I would also believe it if you told me she's been golfing like every other Sunday for years. We did have some questions from the golfers or, earlier about how quickly well this goes here this goes into something else I want to talk about which is the do no harm question we got a lot of questions about this the particulars of the narrative corner that the writers have

written themselves into with this do no harm idea because does mowing grass count if mowing grass if you can't pick a piece of fruit off the tree can you cut a blade of grass can you cut a blade of grass and if so if you can't cut a blade of grass can you maintain a golf course we see some weeds growing up there's like a little bunny here

Yeah, you know. Somehow we're getting into like a federalism argument. It's like an author's intent kind of thing happening here, an originalism. Like, I think by the letter of the rule, the answer would be no. Right. Is that how this is going to work? Frankly, we haven't seen the post-time jump golf course yet. That's true.

Maybe this is part of the reason why Carol has moved to the, you know, downtown Albuquerque as her driving range is like. Shagging balls off the, uh. It's a disrepair over there at the country club. Fair enough. Okay. Especially since no one's there. No one's to Mo to Mo's Edgrass.

Just two more. do no harm questions we got from our listeners. How does the hive deal with bugs while driving? Gotcha Vince Gilligan. That's from Hank and I really like to that email. Can I share a recent bug exploit with you? Oh, please. Recently, before I was about to go to bed,

I was like, oh, that's a sizable spider on the wall. No big deal. I'm going to take care of it. You know, like I try to escort them out if they're below a certain threshold. If they're of a certain size, I'm sorry. It's just I don't have the hive mind mentality. It's smash in time. You got to go.

Yeah, clover in time. I had enough concerning features. I'm like, I better Google this. turns out is a brown widow, not ideal for my home living situation. But one spider I can deal with. Unfortunately, in looking at the Google images of brown widows, there are a lot of very conspicuous egg sacks lurking behind them in these photos. And sure enough, Joe, I look up.

No! And there is just a plump little egg sack right there hovering in its web. Yeah, my night plants were scrambled. I turned into, I mean, this egg sack is like... You're John Goodman in arachnophobia. It's like in a skylight 12 feet off the ground, and I'm like excavating it with chopsticks with the most careful precision.

How else am I supposed to get it that delicately? Because you can't let it burst. I mean, that was my nightmare. It's like I'm going to squeeze too hard and literally 150 spiders are going to pour out of this thing. Oh my God. I'm happy to report I successfully removed the egg sack. And today we have not seen any more brown widows,

but you know, it was a harrowing experience. I empathize with certainly if you have a spider or a bug in your car. And absolutely, you know, we didn't even see the spiders in the gap that Menusus was warned about. You know, all the bugs and snakes that could also be a danger to him there. But, you know, sometimes nature comes for us all. As someone who drives from Northern California to Southern California on the Five quite frequently, my grill is just like plastered.

You are doing lots of harm. I am doing a lots of harm. And then the last one at least, Emma was like, for a hive that can't harm anything, they sure use fossil fuels recklessly, reek so many flights with just a few people. So really Taylor Swifting their way through this apocalypse. But if the only person Taylor Swifting was one person, are you really dealing damage to the environment that way? You know, like one private jet, I think is probably incredibly sustainable. If you cut off 90% of all of the world's like corporate level population or pollution, like, right?

If you shut down all the factories that aren't making cannibalistic smoothies. And this is why I think you're slowly becoming pro hive mine. I'm not becoming pro hive mine. I'm just saying that's not my concern. The concern is there's not enough food to sustain the people. Okay. And if you need to jet set around, maybe there's a safe way to do. So here's Rob just collapsing into the arms of the hive mind.

Here's me. This is not what's happening here. Just slice and dicing my way through the jungle standing strong. Okay. Unbelievable. In terms of like the incredible emails we get from experts in the show across many TV shows that we've covered. One of our listeners, Oscar, pointed out that in a way our email network is a bit of a hive mind. Wow.

we get these like expert insights from people. So we already are the hive mind. He says feels like email. How's your high road feel now, Joe? Now that you're already part of it with me. Feels like emailing the donut is how we can funnel our knowledge into a high mind of source. Maybe you guys can do a live open heart surgery for the finale guided only by listener emails,

food for thought. So something to consider. If we get a sponsor. Okay. The sponsor by the pit. HBO, you know where to reach us. Rob, do you have a favorite fun fact you learned about cannibalism this week from our listeners.

There were great many. Fun fact, lots of people are still pro. Lots of people have lots of defenses of it. On practical grounds, on philosophical grounds sometimes. On lots of just like people and animals have been doing this for a long time in various capacities and therefore it must be okay, question mark grounds. The science community felt a little differently. They certainly did.

It will kill you basically. Depending on how you prepare. Well, it was the first time I had ever heard the phrase folded protein before. Yeah, we got a lot of folded protein. So prion disease, which is something that you can get from eating, I believe, the nerve tissue. Sorry, this is the world we're living. We got so many cannibalism emails. Just so you know.

Presumably the HDP is like heavily processed enough that they figured out how to not do this. But this is what like mad cow disease came from feeding cattle cow nerve tissue. And that's how that spread. Yeah. And with humans, a reason, a reason to not be a cannibal is the way in which. if you eat nerve tissue, I believe, you know, we heard from evolutionary biologists, medical writers, etc., etc., that this is not something you want to do. It's almost like we are biologically wired in the propagation and continuation of our species that we should not do this. It's almost like the universe is telling us something.

Interesting. Interesting. I did like this email we got from Dan, who's an evolutionary biologist, who says, there are some ideas programmed into our brains as species. We call these, quote, innate behaviors or more commonly instincts. As an example, newborn baby chicks, instinctively hide from shadows of predators flying overhead. Monarch butterflies migrate something like 4,000 miles and do it without social learning. So there's a lot of examples. And then he said with with cannibalism, with incest, which can also sort of lead these like societal taboos are often linked to these biological, contrary to the biological imperative, I guess, ideas. I think there's like a feedback loop thing happening there too, right?

There's the biological imperative that, like take incest, for example, like higher risks of like development of various, like diseases and deformities and health complications as a result. And then that kind of furthers the social taboo, which then, like, it's all kind of tangled in a way where I don't know how you could separate one from the other. And I'm sure there's cases where the social taboo kind of started first and then we evolved to a point where our bodies could no longer do that thing anymore. So it's all kind of in one big stew. Did you think we were going to be talking about this today?

I just kind of take it as part for the course, given the way the inbox is going right now. Anything you want to share about we learned about storing avocados. No, we're good. Okay. The avocados are safe. They're mostly ripe. Sometimes they're frustrating. I don't know what to tell you.

Sometimes we put them in the fridge. We do, in fact, know how to put an avocado in the refrigerator or on the counter, but, you know, it doesn't always work. All right. I want to hit you with this frequency theory is what I'm calling it. We got a couple emails about this. A listener who has requested to be referred to as Ray Scotch Colton. Do we allow that? I do.

I mean, yeah. Like you can request to be. called by something other than potentially your given name or like... I think some people try to like don't want their name on a pod, even if their first name is just John and they're just like worried that people will know that it was them that wrote in. That's fair. So requesting a in quotes nickname though is new and you know what? In this instance, I decided to go for it.

I think you have to defer to us. If we want to call you Lorelei, if you leave yourself anonymous, like that is our, that's our right. But this is Ray, Ray laid this out really beautifully, right? when Carol spoke to Davis Taffler and the pilot, he said the self-service is down, right? But as is outlaid here, the joint have kept several other modes of long-distance communication powered and functional landlines, of course. But also communication satellites, which is how Carol called menoucissus from a plane. Zoom calls are in effect, right? Because the unlicked are hopping on the Zoom without Carol on a biweekly basis.

So why no cell phones? Based on all the above, I think cell towers interfere with whatever psychic frequency the joined used to communicate. Taking it one step further, I think the mystery frequency Menuso's found was the basic, was basic the frequency all the joined are tuned to, so to speak. And I don't wonder if whenever Carol Minosos meet, they'll put those two facts together and try to hatch a plan to slow the joined down. And a lot of people pointed out that the frequency that Menus has found, having gone through every single option, is very similar to or maybe the same as the pulsing sound that plays over the credits at the beginning of the episode, that this is like the sound of the joint. The bump, but we never really talked about, but I find like really bracing and kind of beautiful and also a little terrifying. Maybe that's why you're being seduced to the hive mind, right? We do not skip through the opening credits on a TV show.

And then our listener Jay Ronan to say, if the radio signal is part of how the hive mind communicates, would Menuso's and Carol be able to block it on sort of like a limited basis, like a 10 mile radius can block the signal? And therefore like basically unlicking a segment of the hive mine, can they liberate just like a few people in a geographical, you know, location? will those people, if they can no longer hear the frequency, will they then revert to who they were before? Or will Zosia be Zosia but no longer sort of hive mind dependent? Yes. Do you know? And if they are, what memory would they retain from this time

where they're part of the hive mind? Have they been trapped in their own bodies during this stretch? Or are they kind of willing participants in what's happening? Like all of, I'm very curious for our first glimpses of someone who has been deep programmed for exactly this reason. Like, what is that revelation of where have they been in a consciousness sense? Yeah, exactly. Last but not least, and I love this frequency, this frequency plus cell phone service.

It checks, I mean, it checks all the boxes in terms of what's been happening in the show and what Plyrbus is signaling to us is kind of important. And plus, it was like right in front of our faces the whole time of the opening credits is a very Vince Gilligan thing to do. I don't know if people like were in the Better Call Saul soup when he spelled out the return of a character via the episode titles of a season. Like, that was just diabolical work from Vince Gilligan. So, last one at least, before we like get into the episode, this very lengthy mailback section. This is not a mailback thing. I just want to point this out as it watching Carol collapsed into Zosos or watching Minusos have to get rescued out of the jungle. I was thinking

about the theme of Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, and Pluribus, which is about in Better Callsall and Breaking Bad, it's this like slow seduction of a main character into the less, a lesser version of themselves, I guess is what I will say. In Better Call Saul, we watch Jimmy McGill become Saul. In Breaking Bad, we watch Walt become Heisenberg. Absolutely. You know what I mean? And so Carol, as much as we're saying this is like a slow down version, watching Carol go

from as independent as someone who demands their sparrouts is restocked by a bunch people to utter collapse to inside of this episode taking a more sort of Kuma approach to everything, right? She's like, I'll get the Rolls-Royce. I'll have the fancy meal. I'll do all these things. And then into Zosha's arms is actually an accelerated version of that sort of abandoning your principles for something.

I think the difference in those two journeys is in your better call Sol's and you're breaking bad. Some of the question at the end is, like, if you make that transition into Heisenberg, what is left of Walter White after that? Like, is he still in there or is it been completely papered over? Right. I don't think we worry about that so much with Carol

because it's been like 30 days of concentrated isolation, basically, have just broken her will. And she's like so upsettingly lonely. And just like, and I think the diminishing returns of all these things that she tried to kumbify to make her life somewhat meaningful. Like she's just looking at the same Georgia O'Keefe painting on her wall. And it's like, this isn't doing it for me like it did a month ago.

Carol's still in there. She's just like deeply upset and deeply alone and so desperate that she would make the one call she basically never wanted to make, which was like, can someone please come back here, even though that someone doesn't exist in the form that would be recognizable to her. And she couldn't even say it. She had to like go to the, you know, supply store, get the paint and the roller and sort of write it because she couldn't bring herself to get on the phone and say come back. This episode is brought to you by Borris Head.

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terseptide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain, or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia

if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zep bound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-9-79 or visit you. visit zepbounds.lil.com. Let's talk about Carol's Act 1, Carol's Best Day, is sort of how the writers talked about

how they wanted to lay this out, right? Carol's going to the hot spring, she's going to the golf course, she's getting a new car, she's getting dressed up, she's going to the Georgia O'Keefe Museum. The singing to herself, I was very interested in this.

And they said that this was based on, there's a TV show that they love called Alone that's on the history channel where they basically drop, AirDrop Survivalists. Oh, yeah. One of these competition shows, yeah. And they're all alone, I guess, except for the camera crew, or do they, are they have like GoPro's mounted on them? I think it's more GoPro's mounted. And they're given cameras to kind

turn on and speak too testimonial. Blair witching their way through this. Okay. So that oftentimes, oftentimes those people on those shows start singing because they can't handle the silence. That this is like a human instinct thing to do is to start to sing to yourself to break the silence. Carol, I guess, can't listen to podcasts or audiobooks. I had that thought, too. I don't know if she has the internet. Zoom is working for the unlicked, but she doesn't have the internet.

But she at least has some mixed CDs, it seems. Right. So she can't, you know, catch up on her backlog of the Presti-TGTV podcast. So she has to sing to herself. How did all of this work for you? Well, we haven't finished the season yet. Like maybe she will get to episode nine. And she'd be like, what happened in the pit?

Yeah. Mid-season check in, you know? I'm going to get real into the severance. theories. I do think, you know, it's so, it's so funny watching kind of the parallel journeys with Carol and Menusus. Because Minusos is like trying to figure out ways to basically connect with Carol, right? Like, he's trying to learn English. Like, he's going through his lines. Like, he is making this incredible journey and drive to connect with her and meet with her. And Carol's like trying to figure out how to be alone. Yeah. Like, she's trying to figure out,

how do I do this and not go insane? And it's singing to herself in the car. It's doing all the things you said. It's going to the museum. It's really following all the listener's suggestions that been in our inbox in terms of the things they would do, but just them being in such different places, which makes sense given their circumstances. But I thought the singing was especially evocative of that. But I need to hear a human voice even if it's mine. And it cannot be the answering machine that I'm calling every time I need to reiterate. But I do think that's why, you know, we did get a lot of listener emails saying, like, please,

for the love of God, can she ask them to shorten the voicemail? I don't need to hear it every time. But I think Carol needs to hear it every time. Even though she puts the phone on speaker and, like, goes off to do something. Like she does like, who doesn't like listening to Patrick Fabian's voice honestly, but like she does like listening to it. They purposely contrast the procurement of gasoline, right? Carol does his very indulgent like bring me an ice cold gatorade, turn on this pump sort of thing. Her very classic like stock my sprouts versus menuso's eating dog food and siphoning gas out of the very, and leaving money behind as he does it.

Yeah. And refusing the bottle of water. Right, right. I mean, I think that's one of the other contrast points between them. It's like, he's almost like trying to live in a society without a society. Everyone is gone, but if he takes the gas, he's going to leave the money. When it comes time to, like, take refuge, he's going to sleep in one of the few places that would actually give him refuge, which is on the floor of a church. He's just like bunking up in the nearest mansion.

Right. And Carol's not exactly taking advantage of like every luxurious exploit she could, but she's going to take the painting off the wall and take it home with her. And I'm not critiquing Carol because she has, like, in contrast, to the other unliked. She has been a real holdout. Then you can contrast her. And we talked about this earlier,

the sprouts versus the dog food. That, like, Minosos kicking over the, like, you know, cooked meal and all that sort of stuff like that. This was just an more extreme level of what Carol thinks she's holding out and Munisos is really holding out.

But this did feel like a letting go episode for Carol. Right. She did the investigative journalism. She presented her findings to Kumba. And it's like, no one cares about what I care. about. Right. And so all I can kind of do is go home and I guess live whatever life I can live. Well, but part of that is she doesn't have a purpose anymore. Because she had this investigation and

she's like, I'm going to figure it out and I'm going to save the world. Yeah. And then was just roundly rejected and and John Cena-fied and like set packing. Well, her purpose is being a scratch golfer. It is a lifetime pursuit as I understand it. Fair enough. But like Menuso has a part. He's like, I got a learninglish. It's a great point. Machete my way through the Dary and Gap. And get to Carol. Yeah. Okay. I want to talk about the painting for a second. This is Bella Donna, Georgia O'Keefe painting. George O'Keefe, real boss.

There was a great Georgia O'Keefe exhibit that I saw at the Chicago Institute of Art last year, and I just think she's incredible. But I love this story about this particular painting. So she painted this when she was in Hawaii. A trip was sponsored by the Dole Pineapple Company, which had commissioned O'Keefe to paint a pineapple plant for use as an advertisement. This three-month trip proved immensely inspiring for O'Keefe, and she returned home with numerous sketches, photographs and paintings, including this one, Bella Donna.

None of these paintings, however, was of a pineapple. When O'Keefe finally paid the requested pineapple, it was from a plant the company sent to her in New York following her return from Hawaii. She's like, I'll take your dole money, I'll go to Hawaii, I'll get a lot of inspiration, and later I'll do your shitty little pineapple drawing. Fucking phenomenal. She's a boss. She's a G. I wish I had that in me, you know? we all need a little more Georgia O'Keefe in us

just the channel from time to time and I will say like I don't think we've ever seen Carol happier in this show than the first time she goes to the Georgia O'Keefe Museum I mean on the one hand no comment on the other hand I think it is like her taking the painting is her first kind of acceptance of like this is a thing that I want that I've been kind of like not allowing myself to do yet I've been eating TV dinners I've been doing all this other stuff I've been living kind of within the

normal confines of what my life was, I would never be able to take this painting home, but I'm going to do it. Yeah. And I love that she had the poster of it. And she's like, oh, I'll just have the real thing. Anything you want to say about Carol's dining out? It's close city on the table here. She's just got the best of in front of her.

I mean, they look great. Yeah? I mean, I don't know about the coursing specifically. Is that French toast is the first like Martha's Vineyard dish? Yeah. And then there's like a microgreen. I love a microgreens bowl, but it just seemed like, Well, it seemed like a mushroom rice with micro greens on top.

Like a mushroom risotto sort of situation. Yeah. Okay. Risotto, but I don't know, I look a little longer grain to me. Sounds delicious. Rob. I mean, I'm down for literally everything on this plane. Rob, it's going to have to be a foodie travel show.

I mean, you're not going to hear an argument from me. Correct. But I support Carolyn. I support Carolyn coming out of the cloche is ultimately what I'm saying. Like, she's finally allowed herself to do this. Okay. You could say coming out of the close, but you could not say why Carol enjoys a Georgia O'Keefe exhibit at the museum. I thought it spoke for itself.

Okay. Okay. Great. I will say just because my brain is cooked and you know this because we did a West Wing podcast where I said Westworld like nine times instead of West Wing I had to be edited out the player piano at the dinner playing

I Will Survive like was giving me real West World vibes So I did check to see what else was on the On offer. You know what else is on the iPad? It did hurt me a little bit that she scrolled right on past Robbins dancing on my own on that list Look it's an episode full of like quite on the nose music cues.

Door draw my mind. It's getting hot in here. You know, as one does when they're slowly going insane in isolation. But it's like, you know, maybe it would have been a very girl's thing to do. But I would have appreciated the dancing on my own interlude. Do you think these were other songs they considered but couldn't get clearance for? I did have that question. Do you have to pay R.E.M.

if you're going to sing seven seconds of the end of the world as we know. Yeah, they talked about this in the official plot. They had to clear everything. Had to clear everything. Shout out to all these artists, these musicians, these bands, getting money. For Racy Horns, you know, stirring performance of Hot and Her. Thank you for doing the correct pronunciation. That's what it is.

Okay. Menosos, siphoning gasoline, learning English. Oh, so the guy who rolls up to him and is like offering him water and giving him like facts about dehydration, like very Zosia coded. Like here are some facts for you. That's a stunt guy. Really? Who they just like thought was had a very cheerful demeanor. So they're like, he'll be perfect for this.

he was. I thought he was really great. He seems like an amazing hang. I would have taken the bottle of water, I think. Yeah, I mean. But this is the difference to me and Manusos. Slippery Slope, man. I guess. Slippery slope. He's a very principled man. Slippery Slop, not unlike the one he tumbles down straight into plant. Well, let me ask you this. Now that Manus has asked for help, right? He reached for the heavens. He got medevacked out of the forest. Last resort, certainly. Do you think there's any part of him that's going to be more open to asking for the Carol level things on the other side of this? I'm like the basic, like, can I not eat dog food?

Could you bring me some food, even if I cook it myself? I think he's going to be judgmental of her, you know, relenting even as much as she has. I think that, I mean, that part is, I think, if he shows up and Carol is in Zosha's arms, yeah, he's going to have some thoughts. Tough. Um, Vesco, when he talked about his performance in the sequence, uh, he said a note that he got again, again, was to not look too tired or too stressed and don't cry because it's just sort of like, this is supposed to be like a hopeful journey for him.

That is, you know, we see him. trudging and dehydrated at the end. He needs to sort of work up to that. But also just sort of like to make this feel like I'm working towards something. I'm not just sitting alone in this room, you know, dialing the radio frequencies. I've got something to do for the first time in, you know, a couple weeks. Completely. I mean, and it's beautiful, right?

Like the scenery, again, the resilience of that moment and that journey and that character, which is what makes it so heartbreaking when he can't ultimately get where he needs to go. But it's like, again, it's a human like who's trying to. prove something that like I don't need to be airlifted to New Mexico. Like I can do this. I don't need you. And as he as he says really directly, like everything you would offer me is not yours to give in the first place. So why would I possibly accept it? So badass. Um, question for you. If you were to make this journey. Yeah. Would you bother to shave and trim your hair and do all the other grooming stuff that Manusis decides to do on this journey? Absolutely not. You're on full beard. Like getting real

beardy? Yeah. I think in this scenario, I am. Will Forte and Last Man on Earth. I'm living in pretty much some version of abject filth. I'm certainly not as presentable as him. But again, this is part of him like continuing his, like what he sees is like his obligations to the world around him. Right. He's a participant in this larger thing.

And that means trimming your hair. That means shaving. That means being a normal human person. Keeping up appearances of everything. I will leave money on this windshield for a person who is no longer anywhere near this vehicle. No. Just in case society.

returns to himself. I need to have order and yeah, this illusion of, you know, similar to back when he was in the storage, you know, facility and he was just like, sorry for this. Yeah, leaving the notes. I mean, I would say even to like a maybe OCD degree, right, to an obsessive or maybe coping mechanism degree, right? It's, it's either I'm hanging on to this thread because it's the only thing that's keeping me feeling like the world might come back or it's, I just have an innate sense of order, and I personally need to do these things, whether the apocalypse is happening or not. I have a really important question for you next.

Please. Okay. We get two vanity license plates inside of this episode. The Rolls-Royce that Carol picks up, the license plate is Ace Baby. Ace Baby. And the license plate on Minuso's beloved car that he burnt is Elfritz. We talked before we started recording a little bit about what Ace Baby might mean. I think it's tennis-related.

I mean, when you're picking up from the country club, especially the valet parking at the country club? What's the just married car? Like was the reception at the country club? Is that why the just married car is there? I guess so. Okay. That part does make sense.

And conspicuously right there in the background during Carol and Zosha's big embrace, you know, just the just married blinking sign in the background as Carol wears, I believe, her like, you know, pluribus blue shirt as is customary at this point. And Zosha pulls up in her pluribus blue car. You know, the color theory is really popping off this week, Joe. I love that. Okay. El Fritz, a couple options here.

First of all, the car is always on the Fritz. Yeah. So it could be a fun nickname for it. Yes. But also Fritz is a German name, a abbreviation of Friedrich, which translates to peaceful Lord. So just some options. If you have other thoughts, l.dunit ad ad demil.com.

Please. What El Fritz could refer to? Rob, really important question. If you were having a vanity license plate, what would it say? Well, first of all, I just want to say, I regard you as a peaceful lord. This is kind of the energy that you put into the world. La Fritz. Vanity license plate.

Honestly, it's so like antithetical to my personality. I don't mean to dismiss your bit, but like, I don't think I could bring myself to do it. Yeah, you just know, butted my yes and moment. That's fine. Maybe yes and is the license plate I need. Can I say that I think that I, I've thought about this for years. I've thought about like, am I a vanity license plate person and I've never been able to come up with? I have an idea.

I'm not going to say it in case somebody takes it. But like, I have one idea that I'm kind of interested in. Okay. But more than anything, and this is just like, worse than I think in an vanity license plate. I want the California plate that's the black with the gold numbers on it. Quite elegant. Right.

And so like... Is it black or is like a deep brewing blue? Yeah, exactly. And so it's like I want that aesthetic more than I even need like an actual word on there. Completely. I've often wondered is there... If that makes me more Kuma than anything else, then, you know, I'll just embrace my inner, you know. I don't think it's that at all.

But I do think there's an overlap between if you're a tattoo person and a vanity license plate, person. There's a similar, like, I want to make a permanent public statement about something regarding me. That thing is like, I don't think, I mean, I'm ineffable. I don't think there's a word that can encompass when I am. There's never been any doubt. You are ineffable. All right. I have something really important to tell you. This is actually the most important thing. I have to tell you. This has been a very important podcast. The chunga tree. Yep. Did you look up the Chunga tree. Of course I did. Did you see what an alternate name for the chunga tree is? I did not. It is. I am pleased to tell you in some places referred to as chumbo-wamba.

What? I mean, Minnesos did get knocked down and he got up again. Yeah, and they're never going to keep him down. They're never, they're never going to. I could not believe this. I have gone my entire life without bothering to figure out what chumbabwamba means and it means the chunga tree. You're blowing my mind right now, Joe. Keep it don't on gmail.com if you think that band had something else in mind when they, I didn't like go deeper into this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when they're drinking a whiskey drink.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. The chunk of tree, though, the chunk of palm I've seen or referred to to, just the single most not fuckwitable tree I've ever seen in my life. I am staying in a hotel. I am not a person who usually does this. I screamed a little scream when he fell back and got impaled on the tree. It was so bad. And Vince Gilgan on the official pod said he watched that edit like 90 times and every single time he like gasped.

It's so bad. Like because there's the shot, of course, where he comes face to face of the tree. And he's like, boof, close call. And then he his ankle turns on that rock. Yeah. He grasps for the vine that can't hold his weight. And then it's just like it's that moment in a fall where you know it's going to happen and you know it's going to be bad. Well, see, I was I was the opposite in a way because I did know it was going to be bad.

I was expecting ankle twist compound fracture, like horrible leg injury, as often happens if you're hiking in like really unstable terrain. Right. And I just thought, oh, we've moved past the spike trees. Right, right. You know, the booby traps. We're past it. But unfortunately, you are never past them. I love the way that that was shot as he was sort of navigating around them.

And they, you know, Adam Bernstein, the director talked about like that they're almost these living menace. Yeah. He has to like, you know, like the T-Rex if you move too fast, it'll see the motion sort of. attitude. Also very like predator bad lands having recently. The forest will kill you. But also Veska talked about how in some cultures that tree is, so some people treat that tree as like the scariest, most threatening tree.

And for some cultures, that tree is the tree that they use to build all of their buildings. And so it is like a holy tree, a friend tree. And I was sort of thinking about that as like a hive mind idea of sort of like, Is the hive mind a friendly tree, the tree that, you know, builds everything for you, or is it going to impale you such that you then have to cauterize your own wounds with a red hot machete? See, I was thinking more Carol. It's like a little prickly on the outside. Oh.

May wound you for life. Right. But ultimately could be quite stable under the right circumstances. The scars that you carry will be worth the journey of spending time with Carol. I mean, we'll have to ask Helen about that. Who's to say? The belt in his mouth, like the whole thing. It was so hard to watch.

Really, really hard. Yeah. All right. Anything. Oh, I do want, okay. So on terms of Carol Act 2, I just want to underline something. We've been talking about the clock. So we get a day count of how long Carol has been alone.

Yeah. But from a friend of the pod, Matt Midevich sent me this quote from his inside line newsletter from Ray Sehorn, where she said, the Carol Zosha hug was a tough scene to film. We did a lot of takes of varying levels on that one. director Adam Bernstein and Vince both were reminding me that the isolation period that she goes through has taken a massive effect. And even though I filmed it as one episode for Carol, it was in excess of 30 days and she had no idea what the end in sight was. So like excess of 30 days of shagging balls off a parking garage, which may or may not have been a Better Call Saul. There's a parking garage that used a bunch of Better Call Saul and like with similar yellow paint on the pillars.

So I was wondering if that was the same location. but 30 days of like how long do you think you could go by yourself? I mean, I mean, this is the premise of alone, as you were saying. And like really the challenge they're putting the competitors through, even the people who have gamified it and prepared for it, like you can really see them absolutely snapping at a certain point. And I think especially it's one thing if you're fighting for resources like that. And so Minosos's case is very distinct from Carols.

If you're living comfortably, actually here's my question. If you're living comfortably but still isolated, would like the like would that combination of factors make it worse? If you're used to, if you're thinking I'm roughing it in every possible respect and I'm alone, but the discord of like,

I have all these comforts, but no one to share it with, no one to talk about it with, no one to identify with in any possible way. I could actually see that making it kind of worse. To answer your question, I would last like three days. I would be a mess.

Do you have your DVD collection though? Oh, you're right. Physical media does save us. No, No physical media three days with physical media. Eternity, Joe. Yeah, I think so. Would I be happy?

No. Would I be talking to a volleyball? Absolutely. But that's what you got to do. But would your criterion collection, like, watch through be complete? Yes. But if you log something on a letterbox and no one can read it, does it make a sound? It's an eternal question.

You know, like, does it really count? If a chumble or a tree falls in the forest and no one's impaled, does it count? I have a couple requests for our listeners. First of all, we're going to, I want to talk about the very end of this, obviously. the fireworks and all of that. But we're going to do a year-end, basically we're going to do the pluribus finale. And then as part of that episode, we're going to do a sort of like year-end mailbag. You've already solicited some emails online, but I just want to make sure that people know

prestige to be at Spotify.com or licking the donut at g-mail.com if they have questions, comments, concerns. Or any of our previous emails. We do still get all of them. So if you're a slow horse's person, you really want to email arstime the Pope at gmail.com, please do. We got a pineapple bobbing email this week. I mean, look, people have their allegiances and I support them. also if you have ideas for what Rob should put it on his vanity license plate when he finally gets California plates on his cars

do it out me on this podcast. Allegedly. You docked yourself on rewatchables. No comment. No comment on anything that's happening. Licking the donut at Gmail.com if you have an idea for it. Pigeon H. for the hater.

It's a lot of letters. Like PG&H8 or something like that. We'll workshop it. But spiritually, obviously. Okay. Or for me, if you have ideas. for what I should get. And we will auction off Joe's actual idea for charity.

Absolutely not. We're going to throw that up. We're going to go to the highest bidder. If you want to know what Joanna Robinson will put on her vanity plate, we will sell it to. What I think encompasses me. Yeah. But it's not just like what you think encompasses. You want people on the road to be like, oh, she is that.

It kind of has to be a bit, you know? It can't be just cut to the core of who you are. It's like, I'm cutting to the core, but in a winking way just for you. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what like, well, I was going to docks myself with what my bumper sticker say I'm not going to do that you know that's coexist honestly how dare you um all right the boya jams of 2006 uh we're playing we're bumping yeah we get the fire okay this is this is sort of the last big question i have before we get to

age of Aquarius in portuguese i believe close out the episode um what do you make of all this sort of like patriotism that comes from caroline's she's singing star she's singing star she's singing starstripes forever. She's playing it. She's getting the firecracker. I was like, is it the Fourth of July? Is she honoring Fourth of July all by herself? But it just felt very like performative Americana.

Yes. Rugged individualism. As we know, both in the show and one of our favorite things, rugged American individualism. Is that what my license licensee should say? Rugged individualist? Yeah. Rugged USA. I think that'll work out. Okay. I mean, obviously the American... I think I'll get the exact kind of attention I want. I think so.

We're really finding it, Joe. This is what podcasting is all about. We're just here to narrow, narrow, narrow, narrow, and we finally landed on the perfect idea. This is how you, yes, and Rob, not no but a bit. But this is you, yes, and yourself from like three bits ago. You know what? And sometimes you got a podcast with yourself. It's absolutely true.

The American part is clearly there, clearly textual. Right. I also think a lot of it, too, is just like the pompant circumstance, right? It's like if you are one of the last people left on Earth and having no human contact, I think one of the things you would crave is not just having your friends over for dinner. it's like the big communal stuff. It's the holidays. It's celebrating.

It's something like fireworks. Like who's going to put on fireworks for you other than you unless you ask the hive mind to do it? And that's kind of against the point of wanting it in the first place. I will say this. Having been to several Fourth of July events where people have sort of put on their own backyard fireworks show, which I think might be illegal here. I never did it, but I did watch it. Even like city by city wildly different regulations. A lot of fire hazards here in California.

California, et cetera. I would much rather say, hey, hive mind. You don't have to get anywhere near me. Come back to downtown Albuquerque, put on a massive fireworks show, sourcing the hive mine knowledge of fire safety. And you want like the big, big show, especially in, I don't know like what firework shows were like for you growing up, but if you ever tried to do the fireworks show in San Francisco, fog cover means that like often you're just getting like colored clown.

above you. Very different vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think you're missing some fundamental parts. What are we missing? I mean, one, the time on our tradition of getting drunk and lighting fireworks. Correct. Which is really what she's after.

Right. The whole comprehensive experience. She's like, I don't need all my fingers. No. No. And also just lighting stuff on fire. Like, that's part of the appeal of setting off the fireworks yourself. Like, yes, it's great to go to the big show and set up your chairs and have fun.

But like, by yourself. Also lighting the stuff on fire is part of the appeal. Questionable whether or not this should be in the podcast at all. But I will just ask you, Carol decides to, like, maybe let a firecracker take her out at one point in this. Stairs it down. What would you absolutely not do? If you were at the end of the rope, it's been you're burned through your physical media collection. You're out of patience out of time, out of hope.

What are the things you're not wanting to do? Because a firecracker to the face is the thing. This is tough. I think anything fire oriented should really be off the table. Yeah. I mean, look, a very low moment for Carol, I'm sure, like a weak moment where she's just on the brink of a lot of things. I don't think the firecracker is what you want. I don't think anything that is aflame is really the answer in those kinds of situations.

And really, at the end of your life in any way, period. Yeah. Okay. Well, it's just something I'm thinking about. Death? I'm confident. Okay. Anything else you want to say about this episode of television?

I have not listened to The Watch yet as they discussed this episode. But the good news for Chris Ryan. the hive mind in clearing out the shelves of every store for all of the food, for all the valuable stuff, the cigarettes are still there. The zins are still there. Whatever he would prefer to get him through the long night. This is very important.

We salute our friend, Chris. We do. CR, we love you. Okay. One dart into the breach at a time. All right. Licking the donut at email.com. Press dachyvia spotify.com.

Take care of yourself. Don't do anything we wouldn't do. Send us your vanity license plate ideas. What a real joy to be with you in person, Rob Mahoney. I think it's the last time we're going to see each other before the end of the year. So happy holidays in person. Happy holidays to you. But we'll be back with more Plyubis before the year is out just like creepily over Zoom.

And that's it. Bye.