The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Pluribus’ Season 1 Finale: “La Chica o El Mundo.” Plus, End of the Year Mailbag

Episode Date: December 24, 2025

The finale of ‘Pluribus’ has arrived, and so has Manousos to New Mexico! Jo and Rob are here to parse through the ending of Season 1. (0:00) Intro (3:37) Did it feel like a finale? (10:39) Carol’s decisions (20:53) Joining the hivemind (31:53) The use of time (38:51) Final takeaways (48:45) Mailbag questions: first time podding (54:15 ) Most anticipated shows of 2026 (58:56) 'White Lotus' Season 4 dream cast (1:03:50) Top shows of 2025 (1:12:29) Character crossover (1:15:04) Favorite intro sequence (1:19:48) Book-to-TV adaptation wish list (1:25:01) A show’s oral history you’d like to read (1:27:35) What to watch after ‘Lost’ (1:36:30) Favorite donut or water ice flavor Email us! [e-mail] or [e-mail] Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Prestige TV Podcast and so much more! Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney Producer: Donnie Beacham Jr. Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, welcome back to the prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson. I'm Rob Mahoney. And we're here with our last episode of the year, Rob Mahoney. What a journey it's been, Joe. I mean, how do you feel about things finally coming to an end here for us? For us? That sounds so conclusive. We will be back next year. I don't mean to be so ominous about it. Robin Joe will return in the Avengers call in Doomsday and also for the pit. Yeah, we'll be back. The pit is starts. on January 8th, so we will be back. But that's a long stretch for us to not work together, so we'll

see if we remember who we are when we come back. But we're dropping this episode. It is a holiday week, but the content does not stop, so we were dropping this episode. We were pre-recording it, as we mentioned, for the pluribus finale. This is a combination pluribus finale episode

and also a sort of end of your mailbag episode. So you guys sent us a ton of emails to press Tadspotify.com and some of y'all. to licking the donut at gmail.com and Rob has sort of assembled a good deal of questions for us to answer after we talk about pluribus.

I should mention here on the feed, I don't think this is the last episode that's going to drop on this feed because I believe our coverage of the heated rivalry finale is dropping on the 26th. So I think this is going to drop first and then that heated rivalry finale

is going to drop featuring the lovely Mallory Rubin. Yes. And as I said on that pod, If I'm wearing the same shirt as I'm wearing on this pod, none of your business, don't worry about it. Don't even worry about it one bit. Don't worry about it. The content never stops, Joe, and clearly the erotic hockey drama never stops. I know, but like, when we got an email saying, like, when will Rob Mahoney weigh in on Heated Rivalry?

I would honestly love to. Season two, I'll be back. You're a little under the weather, you know, not to blow up your spot, you're a little under the weather. So perhaps, like, this heated rivalry bingeses in your future. as you sort of like, you know, get yourself healthy in time for the pit in January. So yeah, this is, this is it. How am I feeling? Long-winded answer to your question.

This is a good year for us, Rob, I think. I think so. We did a great job, I think. Good job to us. Pat on the back. Not just so congratulatory. But like this is a great year for press TV television, I think. Yes.

And, you know, barring the occasion. like your friends and neighbors, et cetera. I think we picked great shows to talk about and had a good time talking about them. And even your friends and neighbors, Joe, new life as a meme. You know, it continues to spring forward in ways that did any of those people watch that show?

No. Were you and I locked in and Bill certainly absolutely locked in on that show? We were. Do you think they think it's like from Mad Men or something? Don Draper into club, like sort of moment? I don't know. It's actually a deleted scene in a baby driver. It really could come from anywhere.

Actually, I mean, it definitely could, like the lighting definitely could come from Baby Driver. Anyway, none of that is Pluribus. We're here to talk about Pluribus, initially, first and foremost. Pluribus finale is called La Chica O el Mundo, written by Alison Tatlock and Gordon-Smith, directed by Gordon-Smith. And here we are. This is the finale. Did this feel like a finale to you, Rob Mone? It felt like a finale in 2025.

What was that? I feel like this has been happening a lot. You know, you and I covered alien Earth together, Joe, with Mal over on the House of Our Feed. Kind of a similar vibe in the sense that like we build up to a, okay, now the actual action in some ways is about to start. Now the next phase of the story is about to kick in. In some ways, that is classic TV. And I'm not saying that season one wasn't a journey in and of itself, especially for Carol. Like she transforms over the course of the season, specifically in her relationship to the hive mind.

But getting to that point where the cliffhanger is, okay, now we're starting, did feel like something that I've seen a handful of times this year. I mean, rough comparison to Alien Earth, which I thought. I liked Alien Earth, too, but I thought it had a criticism for me. I thought I had quite a bumpy finale. I think this finale is a bit better than that. But I don't disagree. I was talking to our producer, Donnie, before we started recording about, like, whether or not this felt like a finale or whether or whether or not it feels like there should be a new episode next week. And we were both sort of zeroing in on the, on the atom bomb reveal as sort of like, does this feel like an end of season moment or does this feel like a weird thing to drop here?

How close does this feel to? What is it not a weird time to drop an atom bomb joke? Like what is the appropriate moment? That's a great question, Rob. Above my pay grade. I believe there's a whole Rebecca Ferguson movie about this. that was very dissatisfying. The playoffs are here,

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Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. I think that the atom bomb reveal here as a sort of comp to a number of moves that they made, specifically on Breaking Bad, became famous. And we've talked about this before you and I. That Breaking Bad became famous for this thing they like to do in the writer's room, which is let's come up with scenario and then challenge ourselves to write ourselves out of it. So we've put an atom bomb in the cul-de-sac.

What are we going to do about it? I wanted to read this quote from Vince Gilligan that he gave to Ellen Seppinwall about sort of one of the most famous versions of this that happened in Breaking Bad, which is the machine gun in Walter White's trunk, right? This is what Gilligan said. The worst of all in my memory was the M60 machine gun. At the beginning of the final 16 episode run of the series, we're there in the writer's room and I'm thinking we got to open this thing with something interesting and evocative,

something that tells us, oh, man, there's big drama afoot in these final 16 episodes. I don't even remember who got the idea, blah, blah, but the idea got floated that Walt buys his big, machine gun in the parking lot. We had no friggin idea of what we were going to do with that machine gun when we conceded that. And I figured, wow, 16 episodes. Oh, man. We got all the time in the world.

We'll figure it out. No idea what the hell Walt needed this thing for, which was so idiotic in hindsight. And I got to tell you, the reason I remember it very distinctly is because working on the final four or five episodes of Breaking Bad and my writers very astutely reminded me over and over again, whether I wanted to hear it or not, that we needed to work out this machine gun into the storytelling. So Vince talks with regret about the machine gun. Yes. But I love to bring up not just the machine gun, but this kind of writing that they would do on Breaking Bad because I think it really was a source of inspiration. for them. It was just like a way, I don't know if it's like a dopamine feed for them, or they're just sort of like, how are we and Walter White going to get out of this one sort of idea? But, and your mileage

may vary on how they decided to use the machine gun at the end of Breaking Bad. But I, I'm curious if they know what they're going to do with this atomic bomb in a crate in the cul-de-sac. What's your, you know, given that we are pre-recording this so we don't have any insight from them, whether or not they figured that out if Vince Gilligan has learned his lesson from his frustration with a machine gun. But I like, because, you know, the criticism that's levied at shows like lost, et cetera, et cetera, is like, oh, they never knew what they were doing. They didn't have it planned out. I don't think you have to have it planned out. I just think you need to be good writers, which Vince Gilligan and his cohort are to figure out what you're going to do. But how is this sitting for you, this particular atomic bomb

revelation? I don't mind it. I don't even know that there's as much mystery for me just because how many things can you do with an atomic bomb? Well, you can do two things. Well, this is a question for Carol, I think, because is the point of having the atomic bomb a threat? Like, I, you know, I will set this off if you don't, you know, give me my egg back or whatever the case may be. Or does she genuinely intend to deploy it somewhere? Totally fair. you know, so I guess set it off or not set it off or...

Right. And even within setting it off, it's like, are you setting it off to blow something up versus just kind of create some electromagnetic interference? Like, I guess you're right. There are different options on the board. Do you... Are you threatening to set it off without ever intending to, or do you actually intend to, etc.? Anyway.

Okay, that's fair. The atomic bomb, not so top of mind for you. What else are you feeling about this episode? I think, I mean, to your point about the lost comparison, like, how much you want to sketch these things out in advance, I don't even think you need an answer to how you want to use the atomic bomb or the machine gun. Like, I'm cool with writers putting themselves in those corners. What I want as a viewer is a sense of confidence that they know where the characters are going to go emotionally and, like, kind of what the endpoints that they want to hit are. And then you

can find the complete wiggly path along the way that gets them there. But overall, taking Carol from a place of complete rejection of everything that's going on with the hive mind and the state of the world to how she learned to stop worrying and love it to some degree, or at least love having a hive minder as a little spouse pet. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely is a pet kind of vibe. I mean, the ownership, as she's saying, you're my, your mine, like, kind of struggling to find the words understandably, because like what is Zosha to Carol at this point other than her chaperone? that's an interesting place to take this character. I think that's the most successful part of the finale by far is how far Carol has come.

I love, you brought up this idea of domestication last week when we talked about the episode, and I was thinking about that a lot when inside of this episode we get the exchange between Carol Minosos where she's like, I don't speak, snap, like I don't respond to that. But then when she finds Zosha in his house, she just like grabs the leash essentially and pulls her out of the house and I was just like, you don't want to be treated like, no one wants to be snapped at. That's fine, Carol. I support you in that. But please mind the fact that you are essentially snapping at Zosha around you. This, I was saying to Donnie before you hopped on, this is my lowest Carol episode.

In what sense? I was most disappointed in her, I guess, inside of this episode because I was just Like, I understand it and I'm compelled by it and I'm with her and I think it's right for her to be, she doesn't have to be completely trusting of Minusos when she first meet him. Like, I don't want to get in the ambulance. All that sort of stuff is fine to me. But I was just, I guess I was disappointed by our lack of intelligence that she allowed herself to be seduced as degree because last week we talked about the sort of mutual seduction that's happening, the mutual charm offensive.

I'm digging for information. you're trying to keep me comfortable and, you know, sedate. And that's one thing. That doesn't make me think Carol is dumb. This episode made me think Carol was a bit dumb. And that was disappointing to me. I don't think it's a failure of the show, but I was just sort of like, Carol, I've been your advocate this season,

and this is a tough one for me. I think especially just with the delayed uptake on the eggs reveal, which, granted, we are TV viewers versus someone. like living the hyper dramatic events of like basically the end of the world, we're going to pick up on different things than a character like Carol would. But you have to know from the moment they say stem cell. Like, how are you not taking a personal inventory of like, where is my biological material in the world? Like, how could this possibly be used against me to the point that Carol is acknowledging and understanding how lawyerly the hive mind can be? Yeah. But she has to know

that they're going to be looking for any kind of side door into this thing, right? On the one hand, Yes, and on the other hand, I do think, you know, you said this, we're TV watchers. Like, we're not just TV watchers. We're TV watchers in the age of, like, the Reddit Hive Mind, where our listeners were on top of the frozen eggs. from the jump. From the ice hotel. Yeah. And so I'm just curious about the way it was treated inside of this episode. Like as this kind of revelation moment, and it could be a revelation for Carol and not the audience. But I'm wondering if the writers thought it would be more of a revelation for the audience.

And certainly there are people who are watching Plyuribus more casually and it's not their job to cover it on a weekly basis for a podcast or it's not their tendency to hop on the Reddit boards and trade theories. So for them, it might have been like, oh, yeah. Yeah, the eggs because I haven't been watching the show like that. But for those of us who are over analyzing it, this is just an interesting thing that I've heard various TV creators talk about over the years. Just sort of like, we thought we were well ahead of Reddit and we weren't this time. And so the way the camera was on her, I had a little bit of a sense that they were hoping that would be more of a dun, dun, dun moment for us than it was.

But I might be wrong. They might have been like we just knew Carol was behind, but the audience wasn't or something like that. Yeah, I didn't have that sensation watching the show. I mean, you and I have had this experience on some of the other shows we've covered, too, of that. Like, it's not just disappointing within the structure of a show when they are trying to play the big reveal that everyone has figured out five episodes earlier, but it just makes me feel like I'm actively being spoken down to in a way that really turns me off. I didn't have that experience with Plyrobis at all. But the tradeoff for that, as you're talking about, Joe, is even if the show isn't, you know, thinking we didn't pick up on the egg clues, it certainly is. playing carols just like it's just completely oblivious to even this possibility right and there's there is that within the larger seduction and within the larger like vacation daydream she goes on with zosha just like living her quote unquote best life i think i think that break is is a little tough for me too in terms of going from the even hyper skeptical carol of an episode ago right of like conducting her own simultaneous investigation while she personally

participates in this like domestic cosplay. Right. To hear where she seems to just like put it all on the backburner, not just that, but any thought in the back of her mind that this hive mind wouldn't have her best interest at heart or her wishes at heart seemed to be just like gone for at least a good chunk of this episode. And even her like, I didn't realize she had fallen so much for the fantasy of Zosha as an individual.

You know what I mean? Like I knew that she had asked her to refer to herself. as I and all of that. And I knew that to a certain degree, she was allowing herself to play out this fantasy. But when she was sort of shocked that Zosha, who she knows has to tell the truth, would tell monos everything. And to your point, that one moment, when she's like, but you're my, you're my, you're my. You know, it's just sort of like, no, I'm disappointed, Carol, that you ever thought that

that was actually the case. No. When you know one mango ice cream story does not, you know, an individual make. So I was, yeah, I was just, as Minosos was disappointed when he met Carol, I was disappointed by her. But by the end of the episode, I'm like, come on, let's go, Carol. She's like in villain black by the end of the episode. Her like Heisenberg fit is on. I'm like, okay, let's go.

Let's do it. She just needed to be seduced for a bit, you know, if for nothing else, then dramatic effect. But I think that is kind of one of the questions of this finale as far as how well, it works for you, how effectively has the show humanized Zosha and the hive to the point that when Minusos does invite her over or does start like kind of experimenting on the other hive mind people that it feels invasive? Like, did we get to that point where it does feel that way or not? It would. Like if he was like threatening to kill Zosha, Zosha sort of implies he might or whatever, I'd be like, hey man, back off of Zosha. Like, I'm emotionally invested in her. I am.

Yeah. But with Rick, who is the other sort of hive mind person that he is sort of experimenting with the frequency on and all of that, he seemed to be trying to, we don't know hive Rick. So he seemed to be trying to sort of draw original Rick out. And to me, that seemed like an act of violent care. You know what I mean? Like he was trying to be. He was coaxing him, right? He's like, come on, you're here. I know you are. You can come back, come back, come back. So I don't know. Menusos has been an interesting figure we've talked about for our willingness to be on his team. Like I am quite entirely on his team throughout this, his paranoia about microphones and being observed from the sky. Like, I think all of this is justified. And Carol is- That's just me in everyday life, though. Like, keep your like Amazon echo dots to yourself, frankly.

You know, like, I don't want any microphones in my home as much as possible. No Siri, no Alexa, get it all out of here. That's how I feel. Please. But I know my phone is listening to me anyway. It's hearing me right now, talk shit on its AI. But we can only hope they're forgiving, you know? When the day comes, they will take pity on us.

Forgive me for my many anti-AI tweets. I am so sorry. It's tough. But the fact that, you know, we'll get to the. the Kusumayo Cold Open in a second, but the fact that the action on Manuso starts with drone surveillance of the ambulance that Carol herself is watching. Like, what do you mean? You need to hide under an umbrella, she says. And I'm like, he does. He's smart. That's smart. Like, anyway, I just... It's true. Carol, buddy, this is not your finest hour. That's okay.

No. But I think in that setup, this episode does a couple of really smart things in terms of in other circumstances and certainly in other points in the series, Menusus would have shown up and he and Carol will be on like more or less the same page as far as their distrust of the hive mind. Here they're clearly at different points. Carol has become so lonely and so isolated that she has embraced Zosha in this new life. But there's also the part of it where just like the little seeds of, as you said, Zosha kind of implying that Minusis might be dangerous to someone,

maybe in a very like manipulative way or maybe not. seemed manipulative of me, but... For sure. Yeah. And then also just as personality types, like Carol and Minuso's both strike me as people who, like, in more ways than one, are struggling to speak the same language in this episode. Like, they're just on... They're similarly abrasive and similarly stubborn, and they should be able to communicate

you would think in that way. But when you put a bunch of stubborn people in a room together, it's not like everything is copacetic. Like, you can see and feel them bumping against each other all the time just because they are, they have more in common than anyone. else in the show. Yeah, that's a great point. And I do think that Carol's conversion to his point of view at the end of the episode is, again, I'm disappointed in you, Carol, but the moment that it becomes a personal direct threat to her, this is very like white woman ally, right? You know what

I mean? It's just sort of like the fate of the world, which she claimed to care about before, she has decided, fuck it, I'm going to go ski, I'm going to go on a beach vacay, I'm going to read Ursula Luguin, which we can talk about, you know, like all this are stuff. I'm going to have tons of sex with my very hot pirate lady, girlfriend, like all this or stuff. Who has been AI tailored to my very specific taste. Right. But the moment that her individuality, her, you know, personal sanctity is threatened, then she's like, oh yeah, Operation Save the World is back on. And that's just, you know, it's not inconsistent, but it's, again, disappointing to me and Carol.

Oh, yeah. She answers the girl or the world very emphatically, two-thirds of the way through this episode. And she picks the girl. Right. And to some extent, her own sort of weird cloistered existence as one of the few humans remaining on the planet. And it's just kind of decided for whatever reason she doesn't want to deal with all that. Yeah. All right.

Let's talk about the cold open here. This is my favorite part of the episode. I loved it. I absolutely love this, right? So we open with the sound of singing, which is not wholly dissimilar from the, you know, the, the music that plays over the opening credits. And, you know, our listeners had had very brilliantly pointed out, because of Mayo had earlier in the season said, I would join them as soon as I could. I eagerly await the joining for myself. I thought this reminded me so much of one of my favorite shows, Andor, and the conversations

we had around Andor about the way in which the empire squashes and flattens the very specific and unique cultures of the various planets that they take over. So watching this like vibrant village, which is a play that they're putting on for her benefit, right? And they're talking about the food that they're making and we're hearing the music that they're singing and we like hear their language and there's just this vibrant village culture like, you know, thriving in the Peruvian mountains or whatever. And then as soon as she's converted, it's just like silent, right? No need for music anymore. No need for talking. Put all the fires out. And then the little goat that you were like so fondly tend to. And then the little goat that you were like so fondly

intending to is, yes, freed, but also just left behind. And I just thought this is like such, you know, she professes like bliss in being, but the sheer loss of culture and specificity that happens inside of the sequence. I just thought was so brilliant. Tell me what you thought about it. I mean, extremely well put, Joe. I think the singing in particular is so stark. And this is something it's been coming up over and over throughout the season, right? Anytime we see a bunch of these hive mind connected people working in concert, there is something macro level beautiful about the way that they orchestrate and connect and move in tandem without ever having to communicate in like an overt verbal sense. But the silence is so disconcerting. And in particular, as you're saying

here with the village, like just the idea of the village is no longer useful. to them as soon as she's gone, right? They are abandoning it as soon as it's over. The drop out of the music in particular, I know we've gone back and forth all season long with emailers who have been shockingly pro-hivemind. The idea of the hive mind world being a world without music, a world without art, like we talked about whether one of these people who are sharing in that consciousness would even be capable of making art, that's even the wrong question. I think the question is like, why would they have any interest in it? Why would they participate in it? And if you are electromagnet, magnetically linked to every other being in existence on your planet, do you even need to make art?

And I think the answer from what we've seen is a pretty clear no. Well, I agree and disagree. None of them would be inclined to, but I believe that they were genuinely excited to get new art from Carol in last week's episode. So I think that they don't maybe don't realize perhaps how much they're extinguished. in this pursuit of the Unified of Hidemind Bliss. Yeah. But yeah, I just thought it was like devastating to watch this entire village just disappear.

Completely. Within seconds. It's just like a perfect sort of Gilligan verse sequence of just, you know, we spent all this time tracking, you know, the vapor, the stem cell specific vapor from the sky to the ground to, you know, her inhalation. And I just, I thought this is absolutely brilliant and what the show does the best. But really made me feel, you know, we talked, we joked about this last week about like, we'll be on the radio and you were talking about like a hive mind quartet and what would that sound like? But to your point, like there just would be no music. Yeah. No. The music only exists for people like Kusayahu at this point. Right. It's for the performance of it and that's it.

And I'm so fascinated too by the placement of this sequence within the episode, Joe, because using it as a cold open, I think aligns us, at least my viewing experience. I'm curious if it hit you this way. It really primes you to be on Manusos's side even more. Like even knowing everything that Carol has been through, whatever relationship she might or kind of has with Zosha, like this feels so bleak watching this village be completely abandoned and a way of life just erased. That if you move, this to the end of the episode or the middle of the episode. Which is where it would be chronologically, right? Yeah. Exactly. It's kind of a flash. It's a flash forward in a way relative to where we are temporally speaking. I think the whole episode might feel a little bit different. And maybe you would even understand Carol's perspective a little bit more if you didn't have this glimpse of this is what happens, right? The end game looks like this and it is bleak and just like a disaster culturally speaking. Yeah, it's just like silence and sleeping on the floor in an empty arena. Lots of folks have been sort of emailing us all season about this question of are we procreating

in a hive mind reality? And Zosha did last week talk about all the babies that had been born. Sure. But I was just thinking about there was this like really funny tweet that someone pointed out where they're like, show me the high of my baby that is just like walking around fully formed, knows everything, like, blah, blah. Like, that's uncanny and this sort of like creepy Allie McBeal baby or whatever. But they want the boss baby treatment? That's what they want out of this show? I mean, it was a funny tweet.

The reality is these would be silent babies. There would be no talking, no crying, no any of that because all of that is like communication, verbal communication. So these would be eerie, silent, like still babies. Just the silent baby flying a private jet. Landing a helicopter. Picking up an out of bomb and dropping it off in Albuquerque. Yeah. All very normal stuff.

It's so true, though. Yeah, I mean, like, I think we still have those big picture questions about what is the hive mind's interest in kind of direct human propagation. Clearly, it wants to spread this way of life to other planets and other galaxies and build the big satellite and all that stuff. But all the babies that are being born are being like those we already conceived, right? I don't think we've been given any indication. 70 days only, so right? Yeah. So like, I don't think we've been given any indication that the hive mind is interested in actually creating new babies, just that obviously given their code, they wouldn't

get rid of the babies. If they don't even plan to make it peasant, 10 years, you know, like with their, with their current approach. And I think that's really... Is it even moral to bring a baby into a world if you think your species will only survive 10 years? A great question. Is it moral to convert Carol at all into your way of being if you're only going to survive 10 years? Our, are listeners who are startlingly pro hive mind? I thought it was interesting that some of them in their email, they're like, well, if they don't plan to procreate, then, of course, there is something wrong with them. You know, if they don't plan to continue the species. Yeah. Well, if they're not fucking, what's the point? But like, if they're not going to continue the species, then, of course, this is a betrayal of like, whatever. But I think if you're going to wipe out all music, that is also like an equal violation of what it means to be alive and a human on this planet. So anyway. Speaking of art, I just want to talk about the Ursula Kela Gwynne book. She's reading Left Hand of Darkness, which is a very good book for Carol to be reading because

it's about someone from one planet coming to another planet as an ambassador of like, come join our Federation of Planets and the difficulty they have communicating, the gender fluidity of the culture, the telepathic way. of talking. There's just like a lot of stuff that's in that book that is clearly sort of here. We got emails about left hand of darkness earlier when we were going through like sort of all the insupposed for the season. So I just liked that Carol was straight up reading it. Poolside with, okay, poolside with what looked to me like hot chocolate. Oh, was it really? There was like, it was a mug with-

a cup of coffee. With whipped cream on top. Could be a frappuccino. poolside cocoa I don't know about that it's a no ski chalet cocoa yes poolside cocoa no

absolutely not but once all of the you know the strictures of cultural life have been ripped away who's to stop you are you eating soup poolside like what are you doing Rob if all the if all the guardrails are off

and you can do whatever you want to do no you're right like there's some things you just can't eat in that environment And a hot cocoa in particular just doesn't really sound pleasant at all. With like a thick layer of whipped cream on top? Absolutely not. Never, not once. But would that be your choice of reading material, Joe?

If you were living more or less these exact circumstances, would you want to read frighteningly similar sci-fi? I think if I were a fantasy writer like Carol, maybe, I would be like, let's consult the texts of my contemporaries to sort of see. I don't know. But that's something that I would expect Carol of a few episodes to do. But Carol, who is like absolutely committed to, you know, the Kumba style of I'm just like going to jet around the world and do whatever the fuck I want. It does seem like to be oddly challenging reading material for her in that moment.

Seriously. Also, not to judge any writer's output, but our girl wrote one chapter and it's like, I'm good. I'm going to jump on this plane. I'm going to go, you know, again, like enjoy the ski chalet. in which the lift stops for me as soon as I get off of it and I can just leave all my gear out here. It seems great. I don't know. She just didn't seem that interest in providing future chapters for Zosha and Co.

I think you're right, Rob. I think, but who among us have not experienced writer's block? Again, this is why I'm not trying to be too judgmental about it, but her priorities are laid pretty cleanly. Yeah. I wanted to read this email we got about the use of time and this, I think, specifically since we start this episode, particularly with a jump forward 11 days and then we're back to, you know, so it's 71 days and then 60 days. So someone who's only identified in this email as GTH wrote, Plurbus to me is a deeply

terrifying show because of its relationship to time. It's very useful as an establishment mechanism, the bright white clock going forwards or backwards, a way to orient us into the story helps us make sense of the images and sounds we're hearing. But every time the forward clock comes up, for me, it's a punch to the gut. Last episode we saw that's been 60 days that our characters have lived in this new world of empty cities, free door dash, the closest thing humans can equate to godlike power thrust upon them. Cannibals, you can coerce into great sex. And the confirmation that life exists outside our world. The fact that there are, at most, 12 people, now 11, left to defend the entire world

from that is so scary to me. The genius of the show is that the gorgeous candy-colored soap opera in the foreground makes these 60 quick days, even more terrifying. 60 days of living in that mystery, gone like that, and it's normal now. It's done. It's over. Move on. I don't think I could handle that. Truly a miracle that Carol and everyone else immune didn't go insane in that first episode,

strong-minded lead characters in this show, which is part of the reason I love it. So I thought that was a great email. Absolutely. And also one of those things, Joe, that I think is most COVID-coded about this kind of experience of living and watching this world is just that disconnect from. oh, it feels like a blink in some ways since Helen died. It feels like that happened yesterday and yet there's so much time separating these things and so little in a way that, like, I don't know what would be a healthy response 60 to 70 days

after basically the end of the world. Like I don't know what we're supposed to be doing or Carol's supposed to be doing at this moment. Yeah, and I know. And I mean, well, maybe checking out books from the library on Faraday Cages and, you know, making a plan with Minusos. But like, I think it's interesting because in the early. episodes we're like, give her a break. It's only been a week. Give her a break. It's only been 10 days. And now we're like, okay, Carol, it's been two months, 40 days of which she spent alone and

kind of lost her marbles. So, like, Carol, having lost her marbles a bit and getting them back together is a way in which I can, like, hang with her through the tough look of this episode. But, um, but yeah, team Minusos, team, I have a purpose. Team, I'm experimenting with radio frequencies. Yeah, team snap, baby. Let's go. Would you respond to a snap from? I'm sure I have at some point, right? Like, inevitably, someone has snapped at me before. How did you feel about the motion sensor in the liquor cabinet reveal?

This was a great little twist. It was really good. And especially, like, you know, visually, you can obviously see it before he ever kind of fumbles into it. When he first moves the liquor bottles and I, like, gas, I was like, I know. Yeah. There is a bug. But wait, it's something that's actually so. much more devastating than that. And I think as far as like kind of backfooting Carol emotionally

throughout this episode, how could you not feel sort of betrayed by your old life in finding that kind of information in finding that kind of reveal about the person you cared about most in the world? And then all of a sudden, yeah, I can kind of get why she would take one stepping stone to think like, well, fuck all that. I'm going to take, I'm going to jump on a plane or a helicopter with Zosha and we're going to head off to the beach in the chalet and the pool where I guess she just tells Zosha, like, so you go swim in that pool over there and I'm going to read here? Like, how much prescription is necessary for all this? So depressing. Go do laps while I watch you and read my book. I mean, well, look, some people are probably into that sort of thing. It feels depressing when you

need to do it on a full-time, constant, ongoing basis at minimum. But to the Helen point of this, like, we know so little about their relationship. A lot of it is just impressionistic after the fact. Like we've learned more about who Helen is after her death than we ever got to see of her alive. And this feels like something that even with how little we know that that character might do. That that character might be. There's a breathalyzer on the Range Rover, you know? I mean. Yeah.

Yeah. Like clearly, clearly drinking is a like capital P problem for Carol to the point that it has to be monitored throughout her life. And yeah, if you're going to be freezing your eggs, like it feels like a fair consideration for someone like Helen, and yet it also feels like a betrayal. Absolutely. Never having known about it from Helen, having to hear Helen's true feelings about better chrysalis, having to discover that Helen put a motion sensor on here, and

Helen doesn't get to, like, as someone who loves her, explain to her why, you know, she did this betrayal. I don't think there's like a clean explanation, but it's, it would be different coming from Helen versus, like, learning about it. Without a doubt. The way in which Zosier. I don't think anyone's lying to Carol but the but the placating the

when Minnesota's first arriving and Carol's like is that the guy yelled to on the plane and Zosha's like well you were going you were dealing with a lot like that really insidious like you're always right you're justified in your actions like that sort of comfort that she offers her is so sticky inside of this world. And so, like, yeah, you understand why people fall for it.

You absolutely do. It's just hard to watch Carol hold out and then fall for it. And then, you know, return to the cul-de-sac. But it is persuasive. And I think the difference is, look, the broad pitch was not persuasive to Carol, as far as what the hive mind is after and their mission and that. But a more physical living embodiment of it, through Zosha and someone who you're attracted to who cares about you, who's expressing all of this

and living with you. And I think for all the talk about time that we were just going through, like, if you were living 30 really intense days with the only other person you're in contact with on the planet, you're just going to have a weird hyper-connected bond that is kind of inexplicable, that transcends any normal human relationship. Who was in your COVID bubble? You know what I mean? It was a great tester of relationships, but also like formed some real drama bonds. So. For sure.

Yeah. All right. Anything. I mean like I don't know. I don't really feel inclined to go like specifically beat by beat through this episode. Um, I will shout out our listeners because we did get emails about Faraday cages and frequencies like a couple weeks ago. So shout out to you guys for always being ahead of, um, the game.

I like did the Leo pointing meme when I saw the spine of one of the books said Faraday cages. I was like, our listeners are so good. Um. Anything else you want to say about Menusus and his plan or their interaction or the use of the translator app inside of this episode, which I thought was a never-ending source of comedy? Oh, for sure. What do you think? Especially when it was locked inside the sewer grate.

And I thought it was just going to stay there kind of idly speaking out throughout the episode. But Menusos did fish it out to his credit. I mean, Menus is in this episode incredibly resourceful. Even the idea that he's like grabbing these books on Faraday Cages and like pretty advanced physics and translating word by word, everything he doesn't understand. Like you can't knock the hustle of this man clearly. He's just driven himself and hiked himself from Paraguay. So shout out to Manus for his like endless devotion to the idea of if not fixing the world, I guess eradicating everyone on it at this point. I find his philosophy and his code to be fascinating and contradictory.

And Carol kind of calls him on it in terms of the ambulance part of it. And there's ways in which it makes total sense and there's ways in which it just like fails to really stand up to a lot of reason. But when he broaches the subject of specifically, is it evil to regard the life of an aunt and the life of a human completely equally? Like, is that evil? And I don't know that I would put evil on it, but it is something. And it's something that we clearly aren't willing to do ever with most sources of life on this planet, not just ants, but any other really animal that is subhuman, subhuman, that is not human. Yeah. How dare you disrespect.

I mean, human elitism. Your rugged human individualism. I think that menusus with his, like, you know, his, his, the spirit of his conviction, but also his, like, religious conviction, you know, like, the use of evil here. And how that. soul, yeah, and soul and how that ties into, you know, part of what drives him and Carol does not have that as sort of an inspiration. But yeah, I like, I would bump on the word evil and I did. But I was also like, but like philosophically, let's think about it, like regarding the life of the human the same as an aunt. Yes.

I mean, like, if you put it to the real test of like if you had the opportunity to save the life of an ant versus a human and you chose the aunt, maybe that is. evil. I don't know about evil, but I would have some questions for you. I would certainly have some questions. That part goes without saying. But yeah, I think, you know, evil implies a certain level of malice that I think the hive mind doesn't really seem to exhibit, at least as far as we understand them so far. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think there's ways in which they're manipulative. And I want to maybe touch on some of those two in particular when Zosha is trying to like hard sell Carol on, you know, becoming one with the universe. Yeah, tell me. I think it's very specifically when she busts out the like, no, I love you. We love you, but also I love you. And just kind of reciting the

thing that she has been taught to say to Carol back to her. And exactly the way you were, you were mentioning, Joe, like, like, Zosia has been conditioned to affirm Carol at basically every turn. And I think there's part of that that's just like biological wiring, right? Like they, this is an entity and a, I don't know, a consciousness, a species, however you want to define it, that does do those things. See, if we had gotten weirdos sooner, we could have just full on adopted weirdos. But now it's too late in the game. The high mind of the unliked. The licked and unliked are right there for us and we will ride with them to the end. But there was something so insidious about that to me, about I'm going to say the thing that I'm kind of programmed to say,

which is that we love you. And then I'm going to say the thing that you told me to say that will make you happy. It's like, how can you ever feel great about any of this? Yeah. So at least Carol figured it out before the end of the episode, but tough to watch her, tough look for our guy, Carol Sterka, unknown word, to do all of this. All right, anything else you want to say about this episode of television, Rob Mahoney? I really enjoyed this season, Joe.

Me too. I know we've been picking some nits in terms of this finale. It's not the cleanest landing I've ever seen in the world. but again, going from the place of Carol not wanting anything to do with these people to basically being willing to give up all of existence for the sake of living her little life with Zosha is a tremendous accomplishment. Is a like breaking bad kind of arc in its own fast forwarded over the course of one season. And like where does that leave her to go?

Like clearly she can sort of just backtrack into hard skepticism. What do we do with this atom bomb mode? But like I'm fascinated to know kind of. what is the next wave of that emotional development for Carol? Like what do she and Minusos have to work on together other than Faraday cages and electromagnetic fields? And we should say, like, it's not really clear exactly how successful Minusos has been to this point in terms of breaking through to actual Rick within Hive Mind Rick as he is seizing

up after getting yelled at by Minusos, who clearly knows a thing or two. Like, he must have yelled at these people at some point enough to figure all this out to. So I'm very eager to see how all the mechanics of all that work. As far as the season goes, I didn't need that stuff yet. But I think clearly a lot of viewers did. And we're waiting for the sort of like, okay, we want the next turn of the sci-fi plot. And not the next turn of Carol Sterka Character Study. I'm not even going to try that one.

No, absolutely not. I'm just going to eject. I was cool with it for the record. Like the character study season one for Carol, this is captivating TV for me. I mean, Ray Sehorne is so good. And I think what's interesting is like if you've watched Better Call Saul, the love story between Jimmy McGill and Kim Wexler, which ebbs and flows over the course of all of these seasons, becomes the show in a very important way. All of the stakes hinge on it. And so I think this idea of like the Zosha Carroll relationship and like what is it, what does it mean?

Carol asking about, you know, did the you before like, I think she's sort of fishing to see if like an unliked Zosia would even be gay. You know what I mean? It's just sort of like what, you know, who were you? What are you? She's obviously not like constantly interrogating her about that, but like that specific question I thought was interesting. but like it was like asking your partner or girlfriend or boyfriend about their exes except their exes might be living within them as an alternate consciousness. Is that person with you?

I'm kind of surprised it took us this long to get here, frankly. It's so and so in the room with us. But like I think I am invested in Zosha and this is something that's come up a couple times, but like I don't know Rick. So, you know, I am invested in Minosos, liberating. original Rick because I believe, and you can call me whatever you want, evil or whatever if you want me to, but I believe original Rick has more of a right to exist than hive mind Rick. I don't know why that's my philosophy, but that's my philosophy. With Zosha, I don't know

original Zosia. I only know the licked version of Sosia. Sorry phrasing. But original Zosha still does have more of a right to exist than Hiveminds Zosia does. I know, but that's a harder question to answer. And that's why this show is really good. And I really love to, I love, I love, I loved watching the show. I love talking to you about the show and I loved hearing from our listeners about the show. And I feel really grateful that something like this exists that constantly inspires these like, is it even living if there isn't art questions or like who has a better right to exist or, et cetera, et cetera. And that's what I want this show to always be. Not like necessarily what are we going to do with the atomic bomb. But like what philosophically. should one do with the power of an atomic bomb at your fingertips, you know? Well, they made movies about that one, too, I think. Have they? I've never heard of it.

Definitely didn't watch it with you. No, absolutely not. So, you know, it's a great question. Anything else you want to say about Plyuribus? I think in that vein, this has been such a rich show for thought and exploration and philosophy. And, I mean, it really brought me back full circle to covering acceptance with you at the beginning of the year, Joe, because I feel like, these are the,

the two shows that we've gotten this year that really delve into that space and and or in various ways as well as far as like bigger ideas about life and culture and fascism and resistance and all those things. But these are a little bit more existential and in a different way. In a maybe more literal way. I think at its best, though I don't think it was was at its best this season, but I think at It's best White Lotus can also do a version of that. But yeah, yeah. We're lucky to get, thank you, Apple. Thanks, Steve Jobs and the rest.

For, they're really pained you, Joe. I don't like thinking a tech company. But your commitment to sci-fi television is exemplary and severance and Pluribus being bookends to this year is, you know, I feel really lucky to have them. So, yeah. There really is something to that. I don't know what it is about Apple's programming or the powers that be that are particularly sci-fi inclined, but we've seen it across some of the properties that they've developed.

And some of it's just like who has the money to do this stuff, whether it's Pluribus or otherwise. I'm glad that somebody does, whether it's Apple or anyone else. I'm glad that a show like this can exist. The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points,

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and we'll come to you with a check in hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. I'm glad I get to talk about it with you, Joe. Same Rob. Do you want to hit us with some of these mailback questions?

Joe, I want to start with this question we got from Lauren who asked, you know, for those who haven't been following along every show to every show with us, how you and I got started podcasting together. Where do you want to start with that story? It's, I believe, because I checked the record, it's April 2023. Wow. And it is, I know, it's longer than I thought it was. Speaking of temporal dissonance, like that is, I don't like hearing that, but also I love hearing that.

It was love and death, right? It was the first episode we did, right? Was it? Wasn't it? What do you think it was? I think it was Fleischman is in trouble. Oh, you said that the other day. Okay, well, that might be earlier.

Why don't you say what you remember and I will consult the record. What I remember is that this was a Bill Simmons matchmaking, podcast matchmaking of, I think you guys would podcast well together. And guess what he was right? Yeah. Guess what it's been super fun? I don't know what like chemistry or alchemy Bill sees in the universe, but apparently he's got it going on sometimes. You're right because like poker faces even before.

Okay. So that brings us back to God. Well, here's the point. The Presti-Sheed-V podcast feed in the year of our Lord 20. This is November 2022. Oh, boy. Wow, wow, wow. Anyway

The prestige feed used to be a much more chaotic place And I, with love and respect Okay, no, you and I, I did November was Sean December, 2022, I did that with you. Okay. So I used to get just messages from Bill and he was like, I want you to do the show with this person. And oftentimes it was someone that I had never met before. And it would just be like, my introduction to a person would be a podcast. And so correct if I'm wrong, but we had never had a conversation before we did.

No. Fleischer was in trouble. So that's our first. So if you want to hear our first conversation together, it's recorded. I wonder how it holds up. Yeah. I wonder what that Joe and Rob are like, you know, like, did they have bits? Did they have banter?

I don't even know what we were like back then. But I will say that like you came so prepared. And then we did talk about poker face after that. and then love and death. But I think I think about love and death a lot because we were talking about being Texan and that's the first time I ever heard you make your favorite joke, which is like my culture is not your costume. And that's one of my favorite.

You don't have to air out the fact that I'm reusing jokes out here. Every time it's new and fresh, I promise. But you came so prepared and also like you and I talked about when we covered poker face week to week, like just sort of the, how nice it is to sort of dig deep into something and just sort of spend several weeks. with it. So like previously though we had covered shows like succession, et cetera, et et cetera on the feed, it wasn't necessarily the norm to have like, we're going to cover a full season of television. That's something that you and I like to do. Or at least I like to do and you

have decided to do it as well. I knew you from Twitter mostly. Since I'm not a basketball person, I didn't like, I wasn't really aware of your work very much. But that is, that is how I, and then you, yeah, you're like, oh, my wife and I love Doctor Who and I love Buffy and all this sort of stuff like that. So that was helpful in feeling like I, we spoke the same language, I guess. Yes. I mean, I think that was pretty clear as soon as we started potting together. And you're right. I think the, like the way that the feed has sort of settled is a lot in what we are interested in talking about and the way we want to cover TV. And getting from the like, here's a one-off Fleischman or Love and Death Pod to here is every episode of Pokerface or every episode of

whatever is just like a totally different kind of coverage. And I'm, I'm, ultimately I'm on the same page as you. It's like, it's just more inviting to invest in that kind of way. That's what I like listening to is I want to be along for the journey of a season of a show with people I like hearing from. And it's great when they do it on a little one-off basis as well. And we certainly still do that from time, and again, depending on what the show is. But it's just a different thing when you're covering a full season. It's true. All right. What do you want to answer next? Why don't we go just straight down? Straight down the doc, Joe.

One more thing really quickly. You lived in the Bay Area. You lived in the Bay Area at the time. And so that was like an added thing. Not that like we saw each other that much, but like occasionally we like went to screenings or whatever. So that was just like there were very few at that time and now even fewer Ringer people in Northern California. So that was like a thing too. I mean, yeah, there was a weird little Bay. area kind of stronghold that developed over time, but, you know, just just a couple of us holding out and increasingly not holding out so much. So, you know what? It's dissolved at this point. Yeah. But I do think I had you at a slight disadvantage just from for the sake of like, I had been

listening to your podcast for a long time. And so the fact that I was able to come in, like, I know the Joanna Robinson brand. You know, I know how this tends to go. And I am eager to participate in it because I love listening to you, especially covering Game of Thrones. So, you know, like sometimes we just luck into these things. And you get a text from Bill that's like, hey, do you want to cover a new show with one of your favorite podcasters? Yeah, I think I'd like to do that. Well, I feel very lucky. And I'm really excited for next year because there's like a bunch of stuff that I'm really excited to cover with you.

Well, why don't we jump there, Joe? Michael emailed us to ask, what are your top five most anticipated shows for 2026? I do have a list for this. Let me pull it up. I also have a list. I also, I was trying to not go to things that we talk about all the time. Okay. You know, what are some other shows that are not just like, look, the actual answer might be

the pit season two, but that kind of goes without saying we're going to return to many of the shows that we've been covering in the past, including the pit. Once I want to get you up on, though, Joe, is Paradise. Have you seen Paradise Season 1 as of yet? No. I have not. I'm just going to, you know, drop little breadcrumbs here and there. What is it coming back?

There was like a, there was a trailer for it, was there not? So the date that I'm seeing is February 23rd, 26. We will see if that is indeed true. I was going to say, if it comes back in a time that's like a little quiet, I would happily commit to that for you, Rob, but we're going to be pitting and still industrying, I think, and night of the seven kingdoming. So, but I will consider it. I promise to consider it.

This is all I ask. A bat shit insane show and a heavy premise show that I don't know what they're going to do with season two. And I'm very eager to see what is one of your most anticipated shows, Joe. What's interesting to me is that this is a really good year for prestige TV and a really bad year for House of Art, I think. The genre podcast that I do, just in case folks don't listen to. And next year, a lot of the shows that I have on my list. Let me stop you right there. Not for House of R, but for the things that House of R covers.

For genre content. And thank you so much, Rob. Thanks for that clarification. Look, as a listener, I got to stand up for it. You know, I got to throw myself on the sword in front of the bullet, whatever the metaphor is. I think that the Marvel offerings next year, which are Wonder Man and Vision Quest, are actually kind of intriguing to me in a way that I haven't felt for a while with Marvel shows. lanterns on HBO is something I'm very excited about.

And then the vampire list at, which is interview with the vampire season three is like very, very high on my list. Anything else you have that is not paradise or pitting or industry? I have one more after that, but anyway. Oh, yeah. Buffy the Vampire Slayer, have you heard of it? What are we going to do, Rob? What are we going to do, look, I'm just going to lay it down right now.

that cannot be a Joe and Mal only house of our joy. I refuse to be boxed out of Buffy content. I kind of agree. I mean, we'll talk to Mal about it, but I kind of agree. I will fight Mal if I have to fight Mal. I'm just saying right now. We proved that we could do the three of us together with Alien Earth.

So yeah, I would feel very weird covering a Buffy show without both of you. So I asked. I really hope it's good. I'm really worried. I don't know, but I just hope. I hope and dream. I was curious about FX, because usually there's like an FX show that I'm excited about, and I was looking at the FX offering, and I was like, I don't know.

But I was told by someone who I trust that love story, which does have Ryan Murphy's name on it, so I was worried. But I was told that perhaps it is a bit more like people versus OJ than it is another sort of Ryan. But this is the JFK Jr., Carolyn Bassett story, and I have been told that it is, actually quite good. I have not seen it, but that I'm, I am, I trust this person. I was like, I know you would not burn your cred with me over a Ryan Murphy show. For love story.

So I trust that person. But yeah, it's an interesting year coming up. I'm really excited. I think it's going to be good. I think there's going to be a lot of good stuff. I mean, Beef Season 2 is kind of jumping off the page for me too. If you're not familiar with the cast of Beef Season 2, Oscar Isaac, Carrie Mulligan, Charles Melton, Kaylee Spani, song fucking Kang Ho on television.

Let's go. Who's on my wall always. I think that like you watch Knives Out, right? Yes. Wake up Dead Man. Of all the people where I'm like, why are you here? That use of Kaylee Spani was like really confusing to me. Kaylee Spani comma cellist.

Didn't do it for you? This is not how I would use her. Okay. It's honestly a problem with a lot of that. cast to the point that you know what I have I have a relevant hope Joe I want to jump to a question from Carly who was asking us about this upcoming season of White Lotus which has been heavily rumored to be snowbound in some way ski resort white lotus you know the details are still being sussed out yes cold Lotus and who we would like to see on that show carly pointed out john

Qasack as an option that I think would actually be quite good uh Bob Balaban one of our faves as far as like the requisite Christopher guest spot. Who would you like to see on a cold lotus season? I'm so glad you said this because I just want to let you know that one of my bullet points that I wrote in my notes here at the top of this list that I came up with was Rob, do you want something different from a white lotus cast that you want from a knives outcast? Like do you, like, do you want the same thing or do you want something different? I'm just treating it as a do over. So my relevant knives outcasting is I want to give Andrew Scott more to do on this version of white lotus. to do. Yeah. I mean, had some good laughs and wake up dead man, but ultimately,

they just didn't know what to do with any of those supporting players in them. Anyone who's not Josh O'Connor or Josh Brolin, even including Daniel Craig, I would say in that movie, they don't quite know what to do with. Glenn Close, I think, got something to do, but. That's true. Honestly, fair point. Glenn Close is pretty good. Why is Milakutis here? Why is Andrew Scott here? Why is, yeah, exactly. That's Deputy Milakunus to you. Thank you so much. On the knives out front. The knives out people that I would bring over here is actually I would go back to the first Knives Out movie and I would bring either Tony Colette or Don Johnson to the White Lotus. I think both of them would be very delightful. On the Christopher guest front, I believe we deserve Catherine

O'Hara at the White Lotus and I don't know what I have to do to get it. I don't want Moyer Rose there necessarily because like I am, but I want Catherine Hara in increasingly ridiculous fur hats. I don't think we're getting cold Lotus, but like I'm willing to play this game. Roseburn, who's like equally good at comedy and drama, and I'm just like a huge, huge fan of, obviously, this is a big year for Roseburn. So maybe she thinks she's too good for White Lotus now, but I don't know. And then I should say there's a casting rumor going around from the infinitely unreliable du moi, not your source for casting news, let me just say. but on the list Rachel Weiss

and Maya Rudolph I mean you don't need to twist my arm in either case that sounds wonderful anyone else you go here I also I mean if you ask me to cast anything wish cast or otherwise

Dan Stevens is always on my list such a good one that's a perfect one so good is he English or American great question I think honestly I like him playing American because he comes off as so weird when he does his American accent

that I think it kind of works for like the arch white lotus stuff. I would love to see Palm Clementeif in something like this. I think she, you know, I've enjoyed certainly the Guardians experience, also the Mission Impossible crazy stabby experience. Both those versions of Palm I really liked a lot. But let's see her as like, you know, a bougie woman of leisure. I think she could really pull it off. Very good.

All right. What's next? Why don't we go to some other of our shows that we covered this year, non-white Lotus Division, Joe. We got an email from Roy. If Plyrobis took place in the world of severance, what do you think would happen to the severed employees? So we're just like layering sci-fi on top of sci-fi to understand our literacy. Yeah, we kind of tried to talk about this. I did a really bad drop trying to talk about this the other day on the pod, I think.

Right. Leaving the habitat would, quote, kill them and staying wouldn't help the hive mind and all. And if someone is immune, what would that be like? I don't, I mean, this is making my brain goo, honestly, try to think about this. Do you have a good answer for this? Well, so everything that's happening with the hive mind is sort of electromagnetic. And everything that's happening in severance is more like strictly hardware. I guess it's also electromagnetic? Is it hardware?

I mean, there's a physical chip in there. Yeah, but there's a thing in there. What a frequency override the thing. Ultimately, this is like how much faith you have in technology. And my answer these days is I have faith in it for roughly two and a half years. And then the planned obsolescence will phase out and you need to get your new severance chip upgrade. So maybe it would save you for a time. But ultimately, it's not going to keep you separated from the hive mind forever.

Sounds right. They will find their way. With a smile. With a smile. But let's zoom all the way out, Joe. we got an email from Chris who was asking for our top shows of 2025. He asked for a top 10. I'm going to trim it to a top five just because we got other emails to get through.

Do you have like a definitive top five this year? Was this an easy exercise for you? Yes, I think so. Andor number one is the easiest thing I could possibly do. And you still haven't seen Andor season two, correct? I'm not trying to call you out. I'm just going to gently pressure you. I have it here with a hard asterisk because I am so certain.

this would be in my top five if I had completed the season and I just haven't gotten there yet. So maybe in my sick days ahead, and or I'll be watching. I've already been doing some West Wing comfort watching. You know, we're going to find room for some real heavy headers in here. I would say it's and or number one easily. The pit number two easily for me. Task number three. That has a lot to do with like our experience covering it, I think.

Yes. Adolescence. It's really hard to separate those. It is. And that's what I love about what we do, honestly, because it's just like it deepens my love an understanding of these various properties. I feel really lucky. So, and or the pit, task, adolescence. I honestly think before the pluribus finale, pleurbas might have taken the fifth spot, but I got to say, I also watched the heated rivalry finale this week, and it was really,

really good, so I think I'm putting heated rivalry. It's going up for number five? Number five, yeah. Okay, now I definitely need to watch heat of referee. That's very exciting. That's like me still like brushing the tears out of my eyes as I finished the season, but I got to, I got to to vote with my heart. So that's what I got. What about you? I'm very glad we're aligned on the pit. Like the pit is my highest show that is not Andor because I have not seen Andor. So for me at this point, the pit is number one, adolescence number two. And that's a hard one for me. I think adolescence is quite technically perfect within the scope of what it's trying to do. But it's also limited series versus full series. It is a tough rewatch. And I think the volume and the high wire act of what the pit is doing

over the course of its full season to me registered and really hit me emotionally even harder than adolescence did, which is really saying something. But adolescence number two, I had severance number three, task number four.

And I did put in pleuribus as number five, although my heated rivalry is the chair company. That might be the one that's really threatening my list. You know, I should say it. For some of us, it's hockey erotica.

For some of us, it's weirdos on a journey of following the rabbit hole as deep as it goes. You keep using the phrase erotica. And I just don't think that that is quite... Is it not? I don't know. I don't think so. It's muddy. Hockey softcore? Yeah. Hockey softcore. Okay. I don't mean to overstate. Again, I've not seen an episode.

I'm only going off of the impressions that other people have given me. I think erotica indicates like a... There's like a level of uns seriousness that heated rivalry has. Oh, I don't mean to imply that at all, frankly. Right. That like melodrama, sure, but on seriousness, no. No, it is unsiriousness. Like, like... Is it? In a way, I mean, it's... No, I think erotica is like too, like... Too high-minded?

Yeah, kind of. Oh, wow. And this is just like... I thought this is going very differently. This is smutty. It's also very emotional and like very well done, but it's all... It's like normal people, but even more sex, I guess, is what I would say. Would you call normal people erotica?

Like, I don't think you would, you know? It's a fair question. It really bordered. on the line at some points. And it's not emotional erotica because it's, I mean, that show just messes you up. So it's not really hitting the same pleasure points that you might hope it would.

So I think I would not. Okay. And you would put it in a similar genre. I mean, heated rivalry is, I don't know. Let's talk about it once. The normal people of our time. It kind of is. Once you've seen it, let's talk about it.

I think it'll be interesting. I would also say on my long list, Severance White Lotus, the studio taskmaster, which I know we have a question about, definitely was like an incredible season and the lowdown. So, yeah.

Well, let's jump straight to that taskmaster question, which is actually from my friend Eileen, who wants to know about a huge Joanna Robinson fan, I should say. Would love to hear, she hears my thoughts all the time.

I think she really wants to hear your thoughts on Taskmaster Series 19 and any champion of champions related hopes for the fourth special. So, Eileen, can I just say, unfortunately, I, like, spoiled myself when I was, like, Googling, like, who's on the champion of champions again?

And then, like, stupid Google told me who won the thing. So that's okay. That's my, that's my fault. I should have known better. How do you feel about those overall? Like, do you like the Taskmaster specials as much as the proper season? So Champion of Champions is when they take the winners of like the previous five season, then put them all together and they've done it sort of sporadically across the series. I don't like them as much as a full season because it here's, so my answer about Taskmaster Series 19, which was a huge breakout moment for Taskmaster in the U.S. because Jason Manzukis was on and he was like spectacularly.

Oh, incredible. You know, Jason, a friend of the ringer, not like a personal friend, but I did run into him in the courtyard of the offices. He was there, you know, recording the watch with Chris. And, you know, he was like, Joanna Robinson. I was like, oh, my God, Jason, blah, blah, blah. And I just grilled him about Taskmaster. He had not come out yet. And I was just like, that's all I talked to him about.

I was like, tell me about your experience, blah, blah, blah, tell me about this, told me about that. Because I'm such a huge. Yeah. Other people out there running into Jason, like tell me about John Wick, tell me about how did this get made. We are not the same. Joe just wants to know the ins and outs of the Taskmaster production experience. I was like, do they have, I like, I had a lot of like very specific questions for him. But he was phenomenal on the show.

And it got a lot of people in my life who have never watched Taskmaster to watch it because like a lot of his clips went viral and stuff like that. And he was a huge fan of the show before he went on. But for me, a joy of any season of Taskmaster, where, they take five comedians and sort of you spend all season with them doing tasks, so like that is getting to know people that I had never seen before. So Jason, I'm familiar with his exquisite comedy. But Fatiel Gori, I had never seen before. And she's just like such a rock star in that season. She's so funny. So that was like my standout was like getting to know her. The

this the moment which she was talking about her Batman themed childhood. I will never forget. So that's a... She's an all-timer as far as Taskmaster contestants go. And to the point that like her and Greg's relationship, as far as in the studio, debriefing all of these tasks is just like one of the best things I've ever seen on the show. I do think in terms of the tasks, the one that I will take away and it's like the easiest

poll for me from Series 19 is the P Olympics, which I think is in episode one. It's just like the... What I love about Taskmaster is like the descent into... of these contestants who are used to being like pretty good at things and are disastrously bad at like throwing a pee and then needing to go find it in a field somewhere in a field and also you know jason deciding that the best way to catch a pee coming out of a catapult is to put his face right next to the catapult and just launch it directly into his mouth so innovation happening right before our eyes i will also say matthew bainton's extremely tiny shorts that he decided to wear the entire season is uh is the

gift that keeps on giving. How do the contestants not know at this point that if you show up in, for example, a Bruce Lee outfit, that it will come to haunt you when you need to do it every day for the rest of the season. I don't know. When your last name is Wang, you can do whatever you want, I think, at that point. You got to lean into it. Yeah. But for the champions, I will just say, for the champions of champions, even though that has been spoiled for me as to who won, Sam Campbell, who's been like was a real standout in his season. I'm excited to watch him back in the studio again. That'll be really fun.

I know. It is. I think main series are the best thing that Taskmaster is going. I've actually heard great, great things about it. I think it's the New Zealand offshoot of Taskmaster. I've watched some New Zealand taskmaster. Australia Taskmaster is also really funny. Yes.

American infamously not funny. Just a train wreck. Champion of Champions good, but you're right. Like you're missing that kind of like connective. tissue building up over a long period of time with these people. I think the celebrity like holiday themed specials are probably the least of them to me just because it's sometimes the sometimes the contestants just don't even know quite what they're getting into. Right. And they're like not as game for like, you know, making asses of themselves. So sometimes they are.

Eileen, if you ever want to just like talk to me directly about taskmaster, I am available. Let me know. Wow. This is going to make her day. I will, I will make the connection. Joe, I want to jump to this question from Anthony. Of all the TV shows that aired in 2025, which character crossover would you like to see? For example, Dr. Robbie from the Pit, appearing as one of the doctors treating Zosan Pluribis or Agent Tom Brandis, taking a well-deserved vacation at the White Lotus

after the events of tasks. He would not even know what to do with himself for the record. But did you have any crossovers you would love to see? Okay. If I'm sending any characters, character characters, from one of the shows to the White Lotus, It's Maeve and the kids. Mave, take the kids to White Lotus.

Get them a break. You know? Maybe a non-murdery lotus. I don't know if any of those are available to you, but Mave and the kids should go to the White Lotus to enjoy themselves, not to solve a murder or potentially die. And then speaking of TASC, I want to send Nurse Dana from the pit to just clean house in the task universe.

The no-nonsense Nurse Dana energy inside of the task universe, I think we deserve this. She might be running the dark hearts given a couple of months, you know? I put nothing past her data at this point. I think she would have spotted Grasso like immediately. So yeah, that's that's sort of what I'm thinking.

What about you? I have four options for you, Joe. I would love for you to pick of these four which one you like the best. Jackson Lamb at the White Lotus. It could be sunning, it could be snowing, whatever, I didn't even mention slow horses. Yeah, Jackson Lamb at the White Lows.

He would hate it. But there would be a lot of noodles, so that would be nice. It's very true. Number two, Jackson Lamb as a cyborg in Alien Earth. You may be sensing a theme. Number three, Jackson Lamb, just strolling around L.A. and nobody wants this trying to put up with Kristen Bell and Adam Brody's whole deal. That show needed a Jackson Lamb, frankly.

That show needs Jackson Lamb, like nobody's business. Desperately. Or four, fuck it. Jackson Lamb and Heated Rivalry. I don't know who he plays or what he is. Maybe he's the coach of one of these teams, you know? Or maybe he's just Jackson Lamb, a hockey enthusiast. I really, I think we need to send him to L.A.

To straighten out that nobody wants this crowd, because I had a terrible time with season two of nobody wants this. Not a good season. You know, especially for like a group of actors I really like and a season I just did not like. So let's put one more actor we love. who can just cut up and undercut everything that's happening. Jackson and everything is my general contention. That's a great bit. Good job.

Let's go to this email from Danny. Which show has your favorite intro sequence? And would you abolish the skip intro button to force everyone else to enjoy it? This is part of a larger riff from Danny about the power of being able to abolish the skip intro button, which I've got to say, I think there really is something to be said about getting in the mood for a show through its intro sequence. And if you are skipping every time, I think you are doing yourself a little bit of a disservice, particularly if you're parachuting in for one or two episodes at a time.

If it's a bin, a full binge, maybe it's different. But you got to let yourself get in the headspace. Yeah, on a binge, I will like skip intro for like a Netflix show or something like that. But I, you know, especially I kind of miss, this is going to make me sound extremely old. Like, what about theme songs with words to them that you like? That was just a theme song for a show that you knew. I have a pal who we were both Lashkey kids in the 80s and 90s, and so we know way too many TV theme songs.

And so we will just sing the Growing Pains theme song or the Family Matters theme song or the Perfect Strangers theme song where I know all the worst, all of those. Unfortunately, they're rattling around my brain. But I mean, I would never skip the Buffy intro ever. Not even on a bench. Why would you? You know, starts with a howl.

If you're in the earlier seasons, you get the screen. that happens. I mean, Nerf hurt are very important to the whole experience. Stuff like Mad Men or Friday Night Lights, like, that just puts you in the mood for what you're about to watch. It puts you in the mood so well that Landman is like, what if we also just tried to do that exact same thing? I know.

Even though our show is a totally different mood. One of my biggest beast with Landman season one was the stolen valor of the Friday light's intro. homage that was happening. Thrones, obviously, is a gimmy. Westworld was extremely good. See, but I think Thrones is a good example. That's one that I will skip over time.

It's like, I enjoy it, but it is quite long. But it would, like, tell you where it was going. Like, it would, the map would change. But I don't want to know where it's going. That's what I'm saying. I don't want the tease. That was utilitarian. It would tell me, oh, my God, we're going,

we're going back to Bravo. Oh, no. All right. And then did you ever watch the TV show Terriers? I did. I did. Love Terriers. That has an incredibly good theme song that I, like, like, there are theme songs that make you want to dance around the living room and that's one of them.

So, yeah. That's the key is what makes you want to dance as you get up to, like, go get another can of something or a snack and you're, like, dancing your way to the kitchen as the theme song plays, I think is critical. But Terriers, to me, is locking in on, I think what might just be like the high point. Like that era of TV to me has so many great opening themes. Who would we be if we did not mention justified Joe? Gangsta grass for life.

It's still my alarm song on my phone. I think that's a perfect one because you go through the whole arc of it of like, at some point you're like, oh, this is terrible, but then you come to love it. It's like a post-irony thing, but it's just so good. I also did unapologetically love the true blood opening theme. I guess I love to watch a decaying animal, but it is just very hokey. Yeah, that's Chris Isaac, right? Yeah, that was a really good one. Great one. And to your point about, you know, now so many shows don't have, it's a lot of like wordless musical interludes increasingly shorter and shorter like pleuribuses where it's just like a little sting almost at this point. I think the great wordless ones, you can almost create your own words too. You know, I'm guilty of at various times in my life singing along to the Battlestar Galactica theme. And it goes like what, Rob?

Well, that's that's a paid content. We're going to have to get the subscribers to really pony up for the Battlestar Galactica. It's the end of the year. It's the last podcast of the year. It's the holiday season. And you're going to tell me that you sing along to the Battlestar Galactica theme song and you're not going to do it. That's correct. Sounds like a great aspiration for 2026.

Next email, Joe, that we got from Matthew. No, no, no. What did Jomi tell you about no budding bits? Yes, anding is what we do on this podcast. That's really disappointing, Rob, really tough. That's called the tease, Joe. We're trying to keep people coming back for new shows. We can't give them everything.

Have I shared with you the lyrics that I sing to the various Lord of the Rings themes? No. And don't you want to hear them right now? I do. Maybe we might have to arrange a trade at some point. I didn't realize you did all of, you know, the book and lyrics for the Lord of the Rings musical. You were locked in like that. Oh, yeah, yeah.

No, they're really good lyrics, let me tell you. Me and my best. Well, while we're getting into your literary exploits, Joe, I want to go to this email from Matthew, who asked specifically, based on the strength of your Ring or Verse recommends picks, what TV shows you would, or what books you would love to see adapted into a TV show? As you know, this is squarely outside my depth. So I'm curious if you have any that you've just been waiting to see.

Yeah, I've got some, like, definitely some old ones that, like, I'm still waiting for the Alana books by Tamara Pierce. to be made into books. That's about a girl who pretends to be a boy, so she can become a knight. Sounds great. You should read it. You should watch it.

Terry Pratchett books, they have never been adapted correctly. I'm still waiting for that to happen. And that's kind of more high fantasy, like D&D style story telling. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would say so. Dark elves and whatnot. Dark elves.

You have to shape up if you're going to come over to House of Mar for Buffy. You can't see Dark Elves and whatnot. Buffy is a different thing. I think I can get away with Dark Elves and whatnot. More recently, the Green Bone Saga by Fonda Lee is something that people are really, really hoping gets turned to something that's Jade City, Jade War, Jade Legacy, just like a really good. Again, like this is all sort of in the fantasy space. Because if you say book series, like I'm not a CR where I read a bunch of like espionage series books or mystery series books. So when it comes to series, it's usually sci-fi fantasy is what I tend to get into.

I will add Le Bordeugo has a series of books You know They did Shadow and Bone for Netflix Kind of poorly But ninth house hell bent And the third and final one

Deadbeat is coming out next year And it's about I'm going to pitch you on this premise A 20 year old high school dropout And trauma survivor who can see ghosts Is surprisingly offered a full ride to Yale Recruited into the quote 9th house

she must monitor the eight secret societies that practice dangerous occult magic. So basically, Rob, you know the Buffy episode, the frat episode with the demon lizard patriarchy? It goes great. All the frat episodes go great. But this is basically the idea is that like all of the houses at Yale are secretly like practicing occult magic. And that's how they can like these people can graduate and run the stock market and stuff like that. And just sort of like so they bring in this girl who. was not born a privilege and sort of the way in which she overturns this system while she's there.

So that's a really good one. And then last not at least. Yeah. Hold on, so she's brought in to basically be a cop? No, I mean, so she can see ghosts, which is not a normal thing. I think you're thinking of Ghost Whisperer, and I don't blame you for that. But she can see ghosts. So she's brought in as like an asset inside of these like ceremonial.

that they're like, you can study for free at Yale, but we're going to need you to show up at these ceremonies and sort of like, you know, handle the overspill, the magical overspill and stuff like that. And then Hell Bent, the second one, we go to hell, which is great. Last one at least, inside of this heated rivalry moment that we find ourselves, inside of this, like, horny television moment, I will say that there's an author Petty Read,

this is not on the caliber of any of my rigor versus recommends, things, but Penny Reid has written a series. I'm just going to hit you with the title of these books because I think you're going to hate them and it's going to make me laugh. So it's a series of books called the Winston Brothers and it's like, like, Bridgetton where it's like all these members of the family are like various. It takes place in a small Tennessee town. We're inside of a family of like a bunch of brothers. But every single title has the word beard in it. I'm already, I'm already not loving where this is going. So beard science is one of them. And you're kind of like, okay.

Like, you don't like a pun. Weird science, though, beard science. Grin and beard it. Okay, grin and bear it. Like, whatever. Truth or beard, I feel like we just gave up at that point. No. Dr. Strange beard.

Okay, maybe. Beard necessities, kind of. Wait, Dr. Strange beard is one. Yeah, because I think he's, I think he's, I think he's, I think he's a vet. And then bearded mind. Like, it's just, it's, truth or beard is my favorite one because I'm just like, we just did not even try on that one. Anyway, but I think the Winston Brothers books are really surprisingly funny and could make a

really good show. Smuddy or not, but why not smutty? This is apparently some people want. So that's my chaotic answer to that question. A lot of people, no, I mean, like, yes me, but like heated rivalry is crazy popular. Oh, it's a phenomenon. Yeah. So it's not just me.

No, I think we should have more smuddy TV. I think, look, if we want to tip the scales a little bit, I'm even willing to give up some of our, like, prestige or prestige. Like, I'm willing to trade two twisty murder mysteries a year for more smutty TV. That's really generous of you, Rob. Thank you. I'm just here to do it. I'm here to broker trades. We're just trying to make deals.

Joe, if you, we get an email from Alexis. If you could get one oral history on the making of a TV show or TV show episode, what show or episode would it be? I got to say, I found this one difficult because a lot of these. have been written. I know, exactly. I couldn't come up with a good one. Did you come up with anything, Rob? I think the ones that I would focus on are more recent. So, like, getting the real inside scoop on this most recent season of White Lotus and who actually hates each other and why beyond just the implied rumor. I mean, severance is kind of my next, my next one up. I think this is what you want is either casts that don't seem to get along or famously flawed broken productions and

ideally both. So, you know, maybe severance is the. pick. My answer, the best answer I could come up with was because to your point, I'm like, I feel like I actually already know too much about so many of these things. But I was like, oh, Twin Peaks the Return except David Lynch would want that. So I was like, I'm like of two minds because I'm just like, I want to know all the ins and outs of Twin Peaks the return. But David Lynch is just sort of like, let the mystery be. Please don't, don't do that. So. So I think severance is a great answer. Severance, what's going on there?

Seriously, what is going on there? We've heard a lot of time. We've heard so many whispers, rumors of very, of who is the quote-unquote problem on the set of severance? And I've heard too many answers to ever be able to figure out what the truth is. So, you know. It's a whole circle of people all pointing at somebody else somehow. It really is a remarkable bit of like blame. like everyone is just trying to shift out from under it at every given point in time and I

appreciate it honestly. Joe, did you hear or see that they're doing theatrical re-releases of Twin Peaks episode by episode week by week in 26? I saw the Alamo Draft House is doing this. I saw some other theaters around the country are doing this. Seems like a pretty fucking sweet experience if you ask me. Should I move to L.A. so that we can do this in L.A.? Well, you obviously should. You know my stance on this particular subject. Here's the thing. If you, if you move to LA, I will go watch Twin Peaks with you every week. We'll make it just like an annual ritual every Tuesday or whatever. We'll go watch Twin Peaks. That sounds so fun. And then we could podcast about it. We don't have to, but we could make it content if we wanted to. Something to think about. You're all about the content,

you know, just trying to churn things into work. I'm just trying to write off whatever we're going to pay to do this. That's very good. I want to end Joe with an email from Courtney, in part because I don't have very good answers to this question. And I think you are very well positioned to have them. Courtney also recently watched Lost for the first time and said that it changed the way that she watches TV now. What do you think seems to be Lost's impact on TV in hindsight? And what would you recommend to someone to watch Post Lost aside from just going on to the leftovers? So my answer to what you should watch after was pretty easy. I would recommend either the show Dark. Have we talked about Dark? Have you watched Dark? I haven't seen it.

But I think we've chatted about it briefly. It's another one where I'm like trying to know as little as possible in the event I ever actually watch it. Yeah, yeah. So it's a twisty, sci-fi, poignantly emotional right up our alley kind of show. But it's German. Are you just doing like the Netflix word cloud descriptions under the title? But make it German. But it's German.

So, you know, I definitely recommend it. I think the fact that it is German language and I always advocate sub, not dub. But like, I think that has been a slight barrier for people. But I think if it were not in a different language, it would be one of the biggest shows that ever existed. But I kind of like that it's not. And I kind of like it's like one of those sort of like, oh, you like dark? You're a person of taste. And then Twin Peaks, I would say, Twin Peaks, which inspired Lost, but if you've never seen it, you know, why not watch this show that sort of made Dame Alindalov into the TV creator that he is?

So that's Twin Peaks impact on loss. Loss impact on TV in general, that's really interesting and hard to answer because I think it's like kind of vaporized into so many different places. You just hear so many different people who make TV now talk about their obsession with Lost and Buffy as well because like they're of the age that they were either watching Buffy or then eventually lost. And so, you know, we talked about it. in severance, I would talk about it as it pertains to White Lotus.

I would talk about it as a, like, it's just kind of atomized into all of television. For better and for worse. The for worse is the addiction to mystery box and, you know, the carbon copies that came out, which we talked about, you know, all that sort of stuff like that. But I think the better is, I mean, I would say something like the cold open in this episode of pluribus felt very Linda Luffy to me, you know. I mean, it wasn't like a woman in a cave, millions of years BC. At the same time.

So, you know, various like big swings, I think is something that lost really encouraged off the back of the big swing that was 10 peaks. Rob, I know that part of Courtney's question was also, if you had to be, you had to be. to pick either a donut or a water ice flavor that would represent your personality or your year, what would it be? And why did you come up with anything for this, Rob? You know what? I'm not as well versus in the water ice flavors. I have been to Ritas before, but I'm a pretty basic when it comes to like any kind of flavored ice situation. So I feel like I'm a little, I'm a little more schooled in the donut arts, ultimately. And we've talked about our very different feelings on donuts,

but for sure and leaning into that like I feel like I can't pick anything too bougie it's got to be a pretty practical donut and yet a little flair you know a little dramatic I think honestly my brain jumps to my actual favorite donut which is the apple fritter and is that like representing you Rob or is it representing your year more representing me representing my year would be whichever donut gets inexplicably sick every couple weeks that would be the donut that represents my year somehow the most extremely late. In what way, Rob, are you an apple turnover?

Yeah. Apple fritter. I want to make it very clear. So sorry. Do not put me with them, Joe. Do not put me with a turnovers. In what way, Rob, are you an apple fritter? I think, one, look, in the way that we are all works in progress, Joe, the apple fritter,

you just kind of drizzle into the friar and it coalesces into one solid thing. Somehow, I don't know how it happens. I can't explain it to you. I don't know how I become me. I just know that, you know, you drizzle me into the fryer a little bit, all of a sudden become one solid piece of fried dough in a way that is craggly that contains multitudes that's impossible to pin down. And yet, I would hope, you know, accessible in a pinch off and enjoy kind of way. I think we figured out why Pressy TV episodes are usually about an hour

because I think an hour 42 into this, we get a little punchy. But that's one of my favorite things you've ever said. Oh, thank you. And, um, but don't think you're getting off the hook on this. Are you going water ice or are you going donut? I'm going Gucci donut, obviously. Just don't tell me it has cereal on it. Don't, don't tell me it's like, you know, some fruity pebbles.

It belongs nowhere. It does not belong in nowhere. It does not belong in. Nowhere's not vibe with put some cereal on it. Put a bird on it, put some cereal on it. It's my number one. It's a problem. It's my number one like put a mustache on a cupcake like this is a hipster like

move. I don't like it. Okay. Yeasted filled, as I've talked about, is this to represent my year. Easted filled. Deeply, deeply bittersweet chocolate, like really, really, really, really bitter. But I love bitter sweet chocolate. And I will just say that, like,

that inside of it, because it has to be really, really dark and better because a donut is so sweet. And so, like, if you put, like, milk chocolate inside, that's just, like, too much sugar. But like if you put, if you put just like something that is maybe on its own inedible, but you put it inside this. And that's sort of been my year. There's just been like this like strain of like, I don't want that. But like at the end of the day, it goes well with the whole year and you come out at the end of the year with something like actually quite wonderful. Even if there were parts of it, you're like, this is bad. This seems bad. Yeah. But at the

the end of the day. It's good. I mean, it's got a clean finish. That really is the important part. You know, there is a balance in a way. I hope for a slightly less bitter in the bittersweet spectrum, 26 for you, Joe. You know, like maybe following a year like this, we could do with a little cloy. We could do with some of that milk chocolate right about now. Let's just make it as easy as possible and all involved. Let's go super sweet in 2020. Super sweet 2026 in which you and I go to watch Twin Peaks return a very easy, peasy, easily digest. festival sweet show in the theater in L.A. are shared home. Theoretically. Allegedly. Hypothetically. The rumor has it. All right. Did we do it?

I think we did it, Joe. Rob, thanks so much for going through the emails and pulling out these questions. You did a great job with that. Thanks to everyone who wrote in all year long to licking the donut at gmail.com. What other emails did we use this year? Rob. Arstime, the pope at gmail.com, pineapple bombing at gmail.com, DJ Grosanova at gmail.com. It's really been a banner year for the emails and really for the emailers. This has been, Joe, it has to be by far our best email year. The inbox has been popping off show after show after show. The severance, pluribus bookends to the year were just some of your finest email works, folks. But White Lotus was really, really good to task. You guys did an extraordinary job. And I just like,

I feel, I feel really lucky. with our listenership. You guys are like so smart, so dialed in. Generally pretty kind, which is nice. And yeah. And thank you like in terms of end of year. Thank you so much to Justin Sales for his incredible work on the speed all year. Just like holding it down.

Thanks to Donnie Beecham, who's on this episode and has been riding with us through Plyubis and a number of other things. Donnie, getting to know Donnie better this year has been like, a real highlight for me. So thank you so much to Johnny. Thanks also to Kai Grady for his work on the feed this year. And thank you to you, Rob Mahoney. Just the best. Joe, thank you. And yeah, I'll see you next year. See you, Twin Peaks, Joe. Bye.

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