The Prestige TV Podcast - Recapping Episode 2 of 'We Own This City'

Episode Date: May 3, 2022

Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Wosny Lambre recap the second episode of HBO's 'We Own This City.' They discuss their favorite scenes, winners of the episode, and predictions for Episode 3. Hosts: Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Wosny Lambre Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The goal explained the 1990s in exactly 60 songs. The result, we did it. I'm Rob Arvilla. I host 60 songs that explain the 90s, which has, indeed, covered 60 fantastic songs thus far from Tupac to Radiohead to TLC. So let's do 30 more. Let's do 90 songs. No, we're not changing the name.

More rad songs. More special guests. More astute critical analysis. More loopy nostalgic exuberance. That's 60 songs that explain the 90s every Wednesday only on spot. All right, Prestige TV podcast, episode two. We own this city on HBO Max, the spiritual cousin slash nephew of the wire. I'm here with Chris Ryan and Big Was, my name is Bill Simmons.

Chris, when are they going to let Bernthal cook? When are they going to let him cook? Clear out for Bernthoff. Are we doing? Go one for our offense. Clear out. Free Wayne Jenkins? Is that the movement?

Is there a bad Wayne Jenkins scene? Is there one? He was like, oh, no, no, Jenkins is in this scene. Just clear out. I think my favorite so far is definitely Wayne Jenkins being frustrated that he brought all the crabs. But that other guy was like, I got lobster tail. I got sirloin. I'm going on the white.

$46 on those crabs. $45. It's a lot of money. That's when he realized he had to become a dirty cop. Was, what was your favorite episode of part of this episode? Yeah, I think that's the best part. I know Chris mentioned like people get tired of a lot of the expository on David Simon shows, but when he's a rookie and he's on the beat with the guy that's essentially teaching him how to police,

they give it to you plain. It's not that these guys are evil or ghoulish or there's some special kind of person, you know, who does police brutality. It's that these are their material interests. Like, there's literally money on the line for these guys. That's why they police this way. These are where the incentives lie. And that's what I thought was interesting.

And then, you know, throughout the rest of the episode, they explain to you the dominoes on how they fall. Like, they do so many of these fucked up arrests. And now the citizens don't believe him. And now they can't get juries together. And they're paying out. They're getting sued. And, like, they show you how the dominoes fall.

But it starts with, like, this is in their financial interest to do this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what does the G-Money say to suitor? in the barking lot there. How are you going to make money clear murders? Yeah.

How are you going to make money being a homicide detective? And he's like, I'm joking, but he's like, I'm not joking, you know? And I thought that that was really

great to see Jamie Hector in this different way as this kind of like aging father of five who's kind of like holding an eye by his fingernails. And his, and his like partner

is so much more kind than Bernthal's partner was. I mean, they're both, they're both, you know, mentors in different ways. But I thought that the,

detective that Jamie Hector was partnered with was just like, just take your time. It's your crime scene. It was just like all those details of police work are just so fascinating when Simon does him. Can we talk about Jamie Hector? Yeah. Yes. I blame myself.

I don't play them anyone else involved in this show. I cannot extricate Marlowe. They're playing on that though. I know they are. I'm having a really hard time with it. He's everything. His demeanor is different. He seems like.

a little beating down. He's older. He's really restrained. And every time they show him, I'm just, and I think it's just because I've watched too much of the wire and I've seen it. I've run it back too many times.

I can't, I can't extricate myself from Marlow was. I just can't. I can't get over it. I can't get over the hump. You know, for me, why it's a little bit easier for me is because I used to live with somebody

who forced me to watch Bosch. So I've already seen this dude be a cop before. So that kind of broke the Marlowe cop thing for me already because I was forcing to watching that show, which I'm really not a fan of. It's an Amazon cop show, typical copaganda. It's my dad's favorite book series and show. Well, you're talking to two middle-aged white guys. Like, we don't know what Bosch is. My dad is like his new Bosch spin-off.

Isn't there a Bosch spin-off happening? Don't Wasz-splained us. We know what-law is insulting. He was insulting. My dad was ready to change his last name. Bosch. But yeah, he had a whole Bosch run. It's just been I think it's

I had the same problem Michael K. Williams, honestly. It was really hard to extricate him from Omar. But then he was in enough stuff that he kind of became Michael K. Williams. I guess I'm just out there with Jamie Hector. I thought I was going to have this problem with Josh Charles from between Will from Goodwife and everything else he's done sports night, dead poets,

SWAT. He was great in SWAT. But Josh Charles cleaning off those buffalo wings. Oh my God. And go for the handshake. My handshake. That's my favorite part. That's such a fuck you to whoever it was. I just lick my fingers.

Let's have a handshake. So, so this is my, this is in my notes here. Herschel sucking on that damn bone and gristle. Ha ha. He thinks he's me. That was my note for that scene. Well, they used him. Was that his only scene?

I think it was. Right? Hersil. Yeah, he's been used sparingly so far. Yeah. But every time he's in, complete command of whatever scene he's in. And we haven't, I assume we're going to have some Bernthal Herschel at some point. Yeah.

Herschel and Bernthal definitely team up. He's probably going to be part of the Gun Task Force at some point. But yeah, and him getting memorialized in the rap verse. And that's how Nicole gets turned on to it. Well, she's already on his case, but that she's like chasing that down. And I thought that was really cool that like she goes to the bar to have the conversation. And she's just like, this isn't an investigation. I'm writing a report and he just like, I don't care.

The police work, the investigation, I love, I don't know about you guys, but like you're talking about getting like the wire hairs on the back, your neck standing up. For me, it was when dudes start clicking pertinent, not pertinent, on the wire tap. I was just like, we're back. Yeah, it's so crazy that visceral feeling you get of just like, oh, man, the wires is up, we're doing an investigation,

we're listening in on these criminals. It just works every single time. The little joke about when the girl says, I hope you bring me back some sugar, and he's like, yeah, that's cocaine. I'm just kidding. Oh, nope, no takers up. Got it.

Chris, would you buy your car trackers? Yeah. Do you charge them to the ringer or do you go outside on a separate credit card? What do you do? Fantasy and I have been kind of running a scam on you since Grantland where we buy lots of car track. then sell them on the open market and just charge them.

We just put them in your name. We're just like 4 BS pod, 4 BS reporter. It's been... Fetasy scam is the Blu-ray research for his big picture pod. Sean's like... I'm doing a Nick Cage pod. I need 10 Nick Cage TV days now. Shout to Sean.

Winner of this show that's not Berndthal, if we're doing the power rankings, Nicole Steele. What a character. Just going toe to toe to toe with Herschel at the end But just every time she's in a scene, I'm pumped I think they were able to create a character That I don't feel like fully existed in the right way

In the Wire universe I don't know what do you think was Obviously I love what she's doing And like you know she's kind of the conscience of the show Obviously where she's just going around being like All right there was because like The stuff that the gun runners are doing like the, I mean, excuse me, the people on the gun task force are doing it's fucked up, it's corrupt.

It's terrible policing. But like, realistically, they're robbing drug dealers. And it's like, okay, like, it's fucked up. Don't get it wrong. Don't get it twisted. But, like, the real institutional rot is what's happening to the kid with the corn rolls, getting his head bashed in for just coming home from work. Yeah.

You know, like, she's showing you like, yo, this is how. this attitude sort of trickles down. And you know what's dope is that I heard David Simon on a podcast. I think it might have been HBO shit where he says like, this is what happens when the Herks and Carvers become the Daniels. Right. Like when they get in charge, this is what you get. You know, like, because on the show on the wire, like they showed you like,

there's what Daniels and Lester and what they call a bunk. McNulty, whatever, good police. Right. And then there's the shit that Carver and them want to do, which is just bashed skulls, bullshit arrests, and all of that, right? But those guys, Daniels and them had more seniority and they could set the culture. Now those guys have cycled out, they're a generation removed, and that was Carver and them set in the culture.

And this is what you get. And it's like, wow, so stark. It's all in that first speech. It's all in the like, I'm not here to tell you about the fights you have to have I'm here to tell you about the fights you want to have. And it's like, dudes out there on the streets who want to have fights. It's,

I mean, just like the way Jamel fucks with that guy that he finds that has the bag of money. And he's just like, I'm just refinanced my own. And he's like, you refiner your phone.

You're not even fucking like. Refined. You get a bank receipt. I'll give you your money back. That's just larceny. They just took that guy's money. And he's just like, yeah,

show me a receipt that this is a refinance home loan and I'll be happy to give you 11 grand back and until then peace. That's the wild west. The, I think it was season five, but he might have showed up first in season four, but the evil black cop from the wire. The guy who was

like a whole other level from the other guys. Just like, just almost pure evil. Yep. That's the for some of the people on this show. And I think that was probably intentional from the wire standpoint. It was Hurricane Carver, like, these are the guys that are going to bend and twist the rules in the wrong ways.

But this guy's coming. This version of that cop. He's next. Same way with, like, Marlowe was, oh, we have, we have Avon. He's doing it his way. But now Marlowe's like the way more cold-blooded version of all this stuff. And now we're here in 2022. I think, you know, with Nicole Briscoe, the, I'm trying to think who is the conscience of the wire?

Because I think the way you put that was right. Because in the wire it was like four or five different people had pieces. It was Lester. It was mostly Lester. It was bubbles, you know? Like once he got like relatively clean, I mean, cutty a little bit.

A little bunk too, right? Bunk had like he had a way of levitating above it a little bit. But it was not one person. I feel like on this show, it's she's going to become the key character. This will eventually be our guy Bernthal, whatever is going to happen with Herschel. And then Nicole.

And I don't know where Jamie Hector fits into this. So obviously this show is a little bit, it's paced differently, it's structured differently. I was wondering how you guys are feeling about the various timelines. I thought it's getting, it's getting to me.

It's getting to you in a good way or it's getting to you in the way where you're like, I can't tell if it's 15 or 17 or 3 years. It's the 15 or 17. It's like, okay, like, okay, so I guess Mama do in the first episode,

we're at the end. He's been, he's been, I think that the 17, stuff is everybody has been arrested and like each episode I maybe not. They're showing you what took us to get there. Exactly. Gotcha. And I think

Carolina from Succession has been on these guys for two years since the county cops were like we found an extra tracker. You know, and then that tracker leads to a cop which leads to the tap which leads to talking to Mamadu and then like you get into it.

So they're like going to get on Wayne Jenkins but in 15 they haven't yet. and in 17 they have. But I find that like, so that stuff is really confusing. But then on the other hand, like some of the stuff where it's like, there's the obvious stuff where it's like,

Wayne Jenkins gets his like sort of training day and then he does a training day for the next guy and just basically parrots the same speech. But even like watching him in 15, when the new chief is there and he's like, free La Ronde in the back. And like being like a jerk off in the back of the class, you're just like,

oh, you can see. you can see the steps of this guy's. It took 12 years. It took 12 years to get there. Yeah. So I wanted to ask you guys about something because I'm watching this show. And obviously you guys are familiar with the term copaganda. And this show is the opposite of copaganda.

It's like crook again. I'm just like, bro, I don't remember a TV show about policing that is this explicitly like, no, This shit gets so fucked up. And here are the multi-faceted levels of it. Because, you know, like, I enjoy shows like the Law and Order. You know, you mentioned Bosch. I watched Southland the other day. Like, I enjoyed cop shows, NYPD, you know.

And there's spectrums to it, right? Like, if you watch something like Blue Bloods, which is just straight up, the NYPD is comprised of superhero. And nothing. Like, that's what Blue Bloods. Blue Bloods, but whatever. Like, that's a CBS show. We know that's an older audience, whatever. And then you get, you know, some of these different kind of shows,

but nothing to this extent where it's just like, no, cops do some really fucked up shit, and it's not isolated, and it is institutional, and the consequences are dire. I'm just like, God damn, this is a lot. Yeah. I mean, the industrialization of that stuff is also crazy. Like, them bringing all those dudes in,

and then the district attorney is, just like, I'm letting you go immediately. If you sound a waiver. You know, I had the same issues with the time stuff. I'm choosing to try to figure out how much is Jenkins spending on crabs by how what year it is. So like $46, I know we're way back in the 2000s. But when we get to 2015, that's going to be like a $500 order. Yeah, $22 with supply chain.

I can't even imagine. They could have brought that back, had them buy some lobby. or really go all out. Where do you think this goes? Because this feels like this was the most boring episode of the six. They had this was the episode. And the wire would have these two. And even honestly,

the Sopranos would have these two that where it's just like the setup episode. It's we're going to have a layup line. We're going to shoot some threes. We're going to stretch it mid court. We do some handshakes. I'm going to clap some talcum powder and throw it in the crowd. We're getting ready for the game now. It feels like the game is going to be.

I just feel like episode three is going to be a big one. We have not watched ahead, right? No, Chris, you have not? Yeah, we're watching one at a time. So I feel like this was setting up something big in episode three. Yeah, and, man, so much shit like the, I was about to say Marlowe, the Jamie Hector cop character, where his supervisor doesn't know his name, he takes his partner off but finds out a civilian or who they think is of civilian got popped. So he's like, do you want a partner?

now? It's like, I'm very, I think that's going to be a really explosive, like, they're setting that up to be something very explosive, because there's obviously some shenanigans and chicanery happening. And they're setting that up to be some kind of thing that blows up. I will say, though, Bill, this might be a show where the most explosive moments are monologues, like the most explosive moments are conversations, because I don't, I think we'll probably get some bang, bang action.

I think that the threads of the story will coalesce. But, like, we still haven't seen Treat Williams, who's heavily featured in the trailer. And I have a feeling like maybe this is just, this kind of show is a little bit different than the typical, like, unpacking a mystery or will they get their target? They got their target.

They're trying to figure out how it happened in the first place. Berthal. Yeah. I remember I'm walking dead when he was having sex with the guy's wife and then he all of a sudden showed back up and they had that whole thing for a couple episodes and there was one moment when

something about I forget the husband said something or he was watching them kiss and the camera just cut to Bernthal and he's like basically he's just look on his face and he's just flying out of the television basically it was like wow this guy this guy's the best guy in the show

and we've loved him we've talked about him even during the Grantland days during the ringer he's gotten a lot of love I've had him on my podcast I think you had him on the watch right Chris No, we never had Bernthal on the watch. All right, well, I trumped you on that one. You had Kay Wednesday, I had Berthol. Go F yourself.

But Berthal, he's got... That was your wife and my kids from you. He's... Berthaus just got this energy to him, man. It's really unique. It's... I'm trying to... It's got to be less than, like, six, seven actors

who, when he's in that conference room by himself, and he knows the camera's on him. And he just seems like a caged animal. Yeah. I don't know how many people could have pulled that off. Yeah, he's doing this like raw testosterone, tough guy, macho thing. But he has different, different registers, right? Because like, even in Wolf of Wall Street where he plays the drug dealer,

basically a gumba from Queens, I might, I may or may not know a few of these guys from growing up. And I'm just like, yo, this. This dude is believable in that role, right? Like in that, you know, this guy who might sell ecstasy and Adderall, you know, out of his mom's basement at Bayside Queens. Like, I've met that guy numerous times and he's doing it. And then he's doing a different version of that as a freaking Baltimore cop, which I'm just like,

man, he's in his bag though. And if you've listened to or read any of the interviews of him talking about this, like, he spent weeks with cops. He went all ride-alongs. He literally immersed himself in this thing because he was like, no, this is his, you know, Denzel and Training Day moment. Yeah. Yeah. This is the part of a lifetime for him. He's getting to be a straight up fucking hooligan.

And he, he, without reading too much into his biography, obviously knows how these guys walk, how they hold onto their vests, how they twirl their batons, the haircuts. The haircuts, like he has the Caesar and 03. That terrible facial hair. And then he gets, and then he has like that ridiculous. It's got, it's just like he obviously gets this guy. Charles obviously gets Herschley. Charles is from that area. Like, these dudes obviously kind of have the feeling of authenticity to the show that I think kind of transcends the duller, not dull, but like the more very like prescriptive parts of it where Nicole is doing these like long download scenes with people who are like, this is this and this is that. And this is how this works. So it's like we're learning a lot.

It's, you know, as drama, I think it's going to get a little bit more electric as we get close. to whatever this inciting incident is at the, you know, but, like, it's watching him work is just worth the price of admission. It's the Andy Garcia Godfather three part that he does way better than Andy Garcia. Even though I like Andy Garcia in that movie, but that electric testosterone, it's a sunny Corleone. It's like that, it's that. Oh, yeah.

You just have to, like, jump out. James Con is a really good comp. Yeah, you just have to jump out of the scene, which he's able to do. And I don't feel like there's a lot of actors like that. And what's so interesting is he was in the Will Smith. the Richard Williams movie and he's just playing like this nerdy I can't believe this tennis coach

like he really does have some range I was impressed by him also my girl Gabriel Carteris yeah some big scenes big stairwell scene is really like really uh really using her and your guy Don Harvey Chris

I know big scenes for him he's got like one line this entire I was glad to see Carolina get a little bit more to do Dagmarra got got a little bit more work in this one. It's great to see the two of them. Yeah, she was good. Here, here would have been my one casting couch for this.

Have Freddie Gibbs be the rapper. Man, let's go a crossover with like a real hip-hop rap artist and go that way. So here's the thing. I feel like the wire turned the Baltimore volume up to 10, right? Um, whereas this show, is that, a lower register. There's only so much twos and dues in there, right? So, but I think they're

trying to, I think David Chase is like, bro, I got, I got a certain level of respect and reputation in the city. So I got to throw a few of them in there. However, yeah, I think gangster Gibbs would have been incredible in that scene. I thought you were going to make a complaint recasting couch. Because my only one where I was like, kind of like, well, Kirkland brand ludicrous. I don't know if I'm really into him Jamel, the guy, yeah. Yeah, the, the crooked cop, the black crooked cop

was basically spilling all of the beans. And he's the one who's like, and they put me into the crew of the dirtiest motherfuckers in the city. Yeah. He's the one where I'm like, I think y'all could have got, so if y'all were going to go

with a non-Baltimore person, you probably could have got a better person in this. Also, I've seen him in like power and other things being like terrible. So I have like a bad bias against the guy. I'm sure he's a great guy or whatever, sorry. But yeah, I probably could have seen somebody else up in there. Yeah, you're right.

That's a potential monster part. Because it's a big deal. That guy, it's a great scene when he's like, when he's kind of running through everything. Yeah. And he's just like, here's how I was, I was basically crooked from the second I got here. Start. And nobody cared. In fact, they encouraged it.

I think just, I will shout out that McKinley, McKinley Belcher, who's playing Mamadu is. Awesome. Yeah, he's really good. Really good. I was just, it would have been fun to see somebody. Speaking of people who recognize, the guy from finding Forrester and Coach Carter's in this, Rob Brown. Yeah.

I felt like we should have been more excited about that when we did the first episode when we were rattling off all the great IMPD stuff. I mean, we've still got Lomba. You're the man now, dog. Lombardozy is still coming. Nobody finding Forrester, not one person? It's been a minute. Any predictions for episode three before we go?

Any predictions? I feel like we'll probably get some Herschel and Jenkins action together. I think we're getting a lot more Josh Charles in this next episode. They basically shark from Jaws to him. They just kind of trotted them out right at the tail end for a little taste.

But it feels like we're going to be diving into his world. We got to wet our beat. But now we need the full Daniel Herschel experience. It's so funny. I just watched Dead Poets Society with my son. who had never seen it. Who liked it? And Josh Charles in that show,

the love-struck 1950s kid who believes in love versus where he is now licking chicken wings sauce off his hands. Shake the hands. Tough one. Any last thoughts-wise?

Before we go. I'm just loving, loving, loving the show. I know there are people who are going to complain about how documentarian it is. I love it. I just love being in this world again. David Chase is just

this is his best subject This is like You know This is like Bill and And Pam Anderson or something You know what I mean? Thanks Wes This is his

This is what he does You know what I mean? So I'm really excited about this show It's Bill and and Jason and Jason Tatum That's like that's You know It's me if they had let me be involved in winning time And I could have talked about a couple things

You guys got a first Feature Larry Bourd more objectively. You know, if they had tried to string this out in 10 episodes, we would have gotten all this backstory that I'm not sure we needed. And I appreciate that Simon, who I think is one of the few people who would make decisions like this. It's like, no, it should be six parts. It's a good contain story.

Yeah, if we're doing 10, now I have to go home with Jamie Hector. I have to see his five kids. Yeah. And then he's got the twins. And one of them's not talking yet. and she's three and we got to have that plot. He's got to go to school. You know, and then we're just going.

We're basically going up that way. Love Amy Ryan, but I didn't need the stuff with her and McNulty. Like their family drama in the water. We just didn't need it. I was always Team Rhonda anyway. Me too. So over the course of the show, she really stepped it up. All right, guys.

That's it for the prestige TV podcast. Not sure who's producing this one. Isaiah Blakely. Isaiah Blakely. Thanks, Isaiah. I just got that email. Okay. We will see you.

The three of us will be back on Monday morning for the season finale of winning time. What other special guest stars have you drafted into this finale episode? We're getting all together. It's the three of us in Spencer Haywood. And we're just going to have a big party.

At the Shatheum, Mormont. Yeah, we're going to go to Marmot. We're back. Yeah, so we'll see us. But we have a lot. more good stuff coming on prestige this week. Thanks for listening.