The Prestige TV Podcast - Recapping Episode 5 of ‘We Own This City’

Episode Date: May 25, 2022

Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Wosny Lambre recap Episode 5 of HBO’s 'We Own This City.' They discuss their thoughts on the episode, watching the show without any deep knowledge of the subject, Treat Williams's casting, and more. Hosts: Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Watch remarkably bright creatures with your remarkable moms this Mother's Day weekend, only on Netflix May 8th. It's Prestige TV podcast. My name is Bill Simmons here with Chris Ryan, Big Waz talking, we own this city. Episode 5, it is the second to last episode. After two fantastic episodes, this was another one of those, move things along, trying to set up the season finale.

The Gun Task Force really went off the rails than this one was. They took it up a notch. Now they're stealing from each other. All kinds of stuff is going on. What was your take on this episode? Well, first of all, I'm glad I can make it here since I don't set my time to pussy.

But no. I do hope that today we can figure out whether Wayne Jenkins is really a family man or not. No, it's just the escalations is really what gets me. I got a chance to talk to Justin Benton, who wrote the book that this show was based on. And he was like, you know, a lot of his favorite scenes are the interrogation scenes

because those are word for word from the transcript of the cops talking to these dudes after arresting them. Everything they're saying in those scenes is what is their accounts of what happened. And just to hear these guys, like when they get wistful about all the money, all the shakedowns, all the horrible crimes they committed against all types of citizens in Baltimore. That's the part that's really been sticking to me lately is like most of these cop scenes, these interrogation scenes aren't embellished. This is how they reacted. This is how they felt about what they were doing. You know, Bill, you said something interesting.

You referred to the Gun T's Trace Task Force is going off the rails now. And I think the coolest thing that this show has been doing for me is kind of dispelling the notion that there was like a serpent in the grass that corrupted these guys or that, you know, it was, it got really bad when this dude got into drugs or something like that. Like, you can't tell what time it is, and that's the point, because the corruption is so pervasive that it doesn't really matter if it's Wayne or the guy before Wayne or if Herschel's there or not. Or the deputy commissioner. It doesn't matter whether they're ripping off drug dealers or ripping off car salesman or ripping off, you know, like whatever. Like, it's just like, this is just, these guys are zombies. This is just who they are. And even in the car, when G Money and J. and Jamel

and McKinley Belcher and Daryl Brick Gibson are so good in these roles are talking about basically when this ends it ends. They sound like gangsters. They sound like they're going out

in a blaze of glory. They're just like, we're just going to keep hitting this until we get caught knowing that they're under investigation. Yeah, I guess when I say they dialed it up is when you have Wayne Jenkins

impersonating, what was he impersonating an attorney general? Like a U.S. attorney. while wearing just a Ravens shirt. Right. It just they got more and more brazen with what they could get away with

and I don't know why they wouldn't have because they'd be getting away with everything for years and years. I think my favorite scene was the old guy on the street who wouldn't help Sean Souter and explain to him why. I thought that was really powerful

when he's like, you know, he's basically like, I see you. He said you don't come out the womb a homicide detective, brother. Like, you had to do something before you got there, right? So you were one of those jump out boys.

You were one of those corrupt cops. So just because you're doing homicide now and you're not coming in people pockets now, that doesn't mean that that's not what you were doing before. I thought that was a really powerful scene. And I think a theme throughout the episode that I liked,

even if it was just, like you said, Bill, sort of move things along. The way, and Chris just mentioned this, the way they mirror or like parallel, like, when their bad news bears copping with the car salesman do like, I'm a DA, blah, I'm a DA, I'm D-O-J, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all of that dumb shit to them being interrogated, right? It's like they are the criminals. And when you watch real police work happening as opposed to what they were doing, I thought

this episode did a, like, you. a great job of showing you like, this is how it's done. And this is how it's done when the cops are actually criminals. It's like, it was really cool to watch that interplay of like these cops be cops, then watch them be criminals and watch it be treated as criminals. It was like really dope to watch that. I feel like Wayne Jenkins playing the U.S. attorney was kind of like when somebody calls you and is like, I need to, you have to extend your warranty on your Subaru and you're like, I don't have a Subaru, man.

Like when you get one of those spam calls and you're just like, you could have at least picked the right car. Him just be like, sir, I am a U.S. attorney. Do I have to fucking shout at you?

And you're like, dude, no, no U.S. attorneys act like this, man. Yeah, this is my dad this weekend

and somebody called and asked if they could come, they needed to come in and check his gas meter. They needed to come in the house. And he's like, um, I don't think so.

I think about Wayne Jenkins. Yeah. That's what these guys... Well, the thing with this show, the Sean Suter thing's hanging over everything, right? And then it ends with, first of all, his reaction of finding that these seven guys are going down and he goes in the bathroom,

but then at the end he can't sleep. And it's still, the show's leaving a little ambiguous for how far did he go when he crossed past with these guys? Yeah, because we stop with the dot hit, with Wayne basically putting the money on the armrest in the car is like the extent of the sort of understanding we have of what Sean's time and GTTF is. Chris, let's see you and I talk about this

since Waz cheated and watched all the documentaries and read it and deep dive it and knows how this ends. Chris, let's pretend Waus isn't here for 20 seconds. Yeah, or that like the online community has not been like, by the way, this is what happens to these guys. Yeah, right. That's another thing. A couple of dickheads on Twitter were just like,

do you idiots not do any reasons? Research is like now we're kind of just enjoying the TV show as we're watching it. Like not everybody wants to just like skip ahead, do the Wiki deep dive, all of that kind of stuff. Some people just watch TV. Crazy, right? I try to handle it. I was going to finish the show after the sixth episode and then do the deep dive because I want to watch the show for how they intended it to be made, which is, you know, I'm assuming I'm a person that knows. was nothing. Right. And I'm watching this as a nonfiction, but a little fictional, but, you know,

drama and just kind of walk me through it. I don't know what's going to happen to Sean Souter. I don't know what he did. And I think Jamie Hector, who we talked about a couple times in the previous episodes, and it took me a while to unwind the Marlowe piece from him. And just in general, he was playing it really, really, really stripped down. And I thought in episode five, it kind of paid off. Then you think, Chris, like it's just, now I'm trying to study his face. And he's only got a couple different, I don't know, moves with like his emotions and stuff. But he's, I just get him now. I get the character.

Yeah, I thought it was just a great example of a guy not being able to get past his past. And just like he's trying to, you know, you can see he's getting more comfortable with the homicide investigations and the way he's sort of like over seeing the crime scene that he's got. And then as it starts to creep up. first with the old man that we mentioned who's like, you know, you weren't born a homicide detective and didn't you used to jump out of cars with those boys? I think is what he says.

And then as he sees the stuff on the TV screen, on the news, and shout it to George Palacanos who wrote the episode, he's the guy who was like, didn't you used to roll with those boys or something like that? Like he's the cop in the office with him. You can just see it start to weigh on him. And it's like you get an hour of guys

who are essentially just like impervious to their own corruption. They're just like, yeah, we were doing this. Like, what the fuck? Why not? We were doing this before we became cops. And then when you get to Souter, you just see it like, it's caving him in.

Yeah, right. And as a matter of fact, one of my favorite parts of episode five was when they talked about K-stop. K-stop. And just like, you know, he was being groomed to be part of the task. Force. And we talked in previous episodes about how this felt like, you know, just straight

of anti-compaganda. But they're revealing like, look, there's ways to do this job that isn't completely corrupt and morally bankrupt, right? And they do it with the DOJ investigation. They do it with case-stop. They do it with suitor. They do it with different guys. But obviously, the main thrust of the show is, you know, how nasty these guys were. At police him, my favorite thing about K-stop is that the cop didn't know where he was from, even though his last name was like K-Sopolis. I'm like, you know, man. Dude's Greek.

Come on now. You got to know that one. Bill, when Herschel and Jenkins took K-stop out by that warehouse, that was we own the city's version of the Goodfellas fur coat scene. Or is it, yeah, keep going. Keep going. No, no, no. Case stop.

Just leave your phone in the car, Kay, stop. It's like, oh, Jesus. I guess they're used, Hershey was just never going to pay off as, I thought he might get his episode or his piece of an episode, but they're using him more as this, this almost like a hockey enforcer that just skates in every once in a while and banks and bodies around. They, when they robbed, one of the people they robbed in this episode, the, I mean, the, the whole guy taking his pizza home who just cashed his paycheck. That was another, I thought, incredible scene. Yeah. And then that guy's story about how he loses his job. Yeah, yeah.

That scene sums up the show and the purpose of the show like, boom. Like this is why you can't do this shit. Right. Like just normal people are just getting in the crosshairs of this stuff and their lives are being completely ruined. And of course, at the end of the episode, they show Souter going home and that dude's whip being repossessed. Yep.

It's just crazy. And then they, and then they, they they live the rest of their life being like, fuck the police. Yeah. And not participating in jury duty or, you know, like, you're never going to get, like, the whole thing about the trickle down effect on the legal system that this is all having is really, really fascinating. And how they spent the money.

I thought they did a good job in this episode. You see, he's like, the Hershey probably who's out there spent it. And then it's like cut to him in the strip joint and him at the poker game. So you have a problem with Wayne Jenkins having a. a quiet meal by himself. Wayne Jenkins what casino was he at? No,

he was at an Inner Harbor hotel. Like he was at a hotel somewhere in the Baltimore Harbor. He likes to go there. That's the nice part of Baltimore. Yeah. To the extent that there are any. We got a blow job scene

with Wayne Jenkins that I'm not sure I needed. It's absolutely directed by Martin Scorsese. Yeah, I don't know if that's in the research. There might have been a Bernthal special request. You know what I mean? Can you really throw yourself into the blowjob? I think that's what Wayne would have done. The big winner of this episode is somebody.

You guys formed Club Carolina about a year ago. And Dagmaro Domenchuk is really, really good in this episode. Yeah, she really settled in. There's like, I don't know, she starts messing with. with the guys a little bit. There's a little hint of sexual tension. I'm not sure. Right.

She does these very subtle facial expressions. Like it's super duper subtle and light the touches. And I'm like, yes, this is. I get it. Patrick Wilson. We get it. Great job by Patrick Wilson. Yeah, it's like, is she flirting with Don Harvey?

Or she's just trying to show that she's secure? I thought a little. like a borderline flirtatious kind of, but I think that's how she's trying to get power with the guys. She's aware of her femininity and she's having fun at their expense about it. Yes. That's where I landed on that one.

So you had her, I thought she was really good in that episode, but just in general, where are we going? Now, Oz, try to make a prediction without disqualifying yourself because you cheated and you did all the research. Wait, how do we wrap?

because in episode one, we flash forwarded and we saw Jenkins get taken down at the end of the episode and had that conference room scene where he's staring and he's like a rational confidence. I don't care that I just got arrested. I'm going to get out of this guy. So I assume we're going to go back there. I assume we're going to have some interrogation stuff.

And then we're going to find out how much Sean Souter knew and how much blood is on his hands, right? Any other predictions that you, without giving away stuff? Well, okay, like I can just say predictions about the show rather than like what happens. I just think because they just, so that at that part where they're talking to the old wise man, right, who's not like teaching cops. He's like, I teach him how to do police work. And that was Tree Williams, yeah. Yeah.

Tree Williams, who I saw, I was, I was bored one day on the couch and I was watching this movie with Brad Pitt and Harrison Ford with Brad Pitt. NRA. Not NRA, excuse me, IRA member? Yes. Oh, yeah. Some bad accents to that movie. And Sheree Williams is like a drug dealer,

gun, like he's like a bad actor. He's like the villain in the movie. Not very convincing, but whatever. It was cool. I just recently watched that. So what's that one called it?

It's like the devil something or like the devil's own. The devil's own. Yeah, yeah. I enjoyed it, obviously, I think David Simon, what he wants to do is just really impress upon people like the drug war and all the incentives that this shit creates is poisonous and horrible. And it has terrible effects, not just on the citizens, but the people who are policing it and the politicians who think is their job to win it and all of those things.

And I think the last episode is just going to hammer that home because, you know, David Simon is not like, when he, when he has a point, he's not just going to like fain at it. He's going to, like, he uses his hammer and everything is a nail. And I think that's what's going to happen in episode six, just more of that. And Wayne Jenkins, like they did the, I watched the preview of the next episode and they previewed Wayne Jenkins' interrogation. and, you know, he's going to do his whole, like, you're going to get to hear his point of view and just be completely disgusted by the whole business of this thing. Yeah, and, you know, for me in a lot of ways,

I obviously want to see the way in interrogation. I want to see what happens with Souter. The show ended in that meeting with the new mayor when she's just like, yep, I'm just not going to pay for this. And then they're like, we only have like the limited amount of time before Jeff Sessions becomes Attorney General and essentially shuts down our division. We have to get this consent decree in now.

And they're like, well, what about this? And what about that? And maybe we should just be attracting businesses or paying for social programs. And what Mimusako is really, really great throughout this episode in that scene, in the Treat William scene, and in the monologue she has at the end of the episode.

And to me, that's it. You know what I mean? Like, it ends when they, like, have done all this, you know, investigation, all this research, and the tides of politics up in Washington completely change it. The Treat Williams casting

was pretty obvious what they were doing with that one because Prince of the City didn't get from, in terms of the police corruption movies, I don't think it's remembered the same way like the cult classic though was. Yeah, it's more of a cold class. It's the double tape epic,

like this is just like how fucked up it was. he had a moment there in the late 70s, early 80s, when it felt like he was going to become one of the next guys. He was in 1941, which didn't hit, but it was Spielberg, and it was Belushi and it was Akron. Then he was in Prince of the City. He was in pursuit of D.B. Cooper. He was in hair before all that in 1979.

He was in Once Upon a Time in America, had a pretty big role in that. And he never quite got over the hump as like an A-lister. But the Prince of the City, I think, was probably his most famous role where he was, like, carrying a movie. And I thought it was a pretty interesting callback by those guys to be, you know, because this is ultimately, there hasn't been that many police corruption things. I was thinking about it. You know, I think internal affairs is another one, which I know we're going to do at some point in the rewatchables. We've discussed that.

But in general, like, I always think this is so fascinating, especially when you have cops chasing other cops. and just where those lines are and then are the people who speak out against some of this behavior? Are they betraying some sort of code? I'm always in on that stuff. NYPD Blue did this too in season one. Yeah, there's a really under...

One of the most recent things before this, I guess it's probably like 10 years ago now, is this Gavin O'Connor movie called Pride and Glory with Colin Farrell and Edward Norton. And that's a really good police corruption movie. I think Duval's in that too. that's like one of the best most recent ones.

And then I would say our beloved copland. Yeah. Oh, so so incredible. So, so incredible. And, you know,

just as a native NYC person, when you think about the NYPD, like somebody like me, I don't know what the NYPD's reputation is outside of New York. I just know if somebody grew up in New York. I think of them as this like impenetrable. unstoppable, immovable force

that is not to be fucked with. And if they wanted to do corruption, I'm pretty sure they could get away with it with no problem. Because they get away with everything else, right? They get unlimited funding. They get unlimited resources, unlimited everything like they are just this

massive entity in the city, right? I tell people like, when I moved out here to L.A., the first thing I noticed was the lack of police Like in New York, when you're anywhere, you feel like you're in an occupied state. The police are everywhere. They're everywhere. It's like,

it's just part of the fabric of the city. You are going to see cops all over the place. You know, so just corruption in and of itself. You know, I'm like, why couldn't the cops get away with taking people shit? If you go to court and, you know,

basically the slant is whatever the cops say is what happened because they're the cops. Duh. Like, that's just, there's no accountability there. I don't see why any police unit couldn't get away with taking people's stuff and doing whatever the hell they wanted. Chris, do you think the success of the show will get Simon to maybe keep going with some of the stuff?

I think he's probably arrived at a point in his career where, you know, he makes these somewhat, I don't even know modestly budget is the right thing, but he's just got his Lane, but it does seem like unlikely that he would do another cop show. I think it's worth mentioning that Pelicanos is, I think, more of the showrunner. I'm talking to him from the watch for the finale next week. And this is, you know, it's almost like the, it's like the Popovich coaching tree. Yeah. And this is, you know, kind of like a guy coming out of that. Pelicanos is coach bud. Yeah. So basically, yeah. Make adjustments, Pelicanos. Yeah, so I think that it's possible George could do that,

but I would imagine that David Simon's got like a bunch of other stories he wants to tell. It's just guessing, though. I'm interested to see where this goes, obviously. I have a feeling that the moment I finish the show, I'm going on like a five-hour, just deep dive of epic proportion. So I might try to time it so that I know I have the ensuing five hours after I watch the show. And then it's just, it's just, like, can we just say how fucking perfect this has been? Like, as, like, a limited series.

I don't know if I, I don't know if it would have been as successful for us if it was 10 hours of this style of storytelling, where you're just like never quite sure if it's 15, 16, 12, like, 12 or whatever. And like, the kind of constant, like, recreations of these interrogations. But as it is, like, it just makes, it, it's just so perfect. crafted for like a six-hour miniseries. Yeah, and the Jeff Sessions thing hanging over everything, I thought was an interesting wrinkle. I like these shows that are able to feel like a drama, but we know they're pulling in

all this real-life stuff that, you know, it feels essential to the show, but at the same time doesn't feel too, like they're fictionalizing anything. This feels very... Yeah, so real. And it's just great. Like, the reason why I'm talking about Jeff Sessions is important, because, you know, when you get appointed to that post, you know, the Civil Rights Division is under your purview.

Jeff Sessions, his name is Jeff Beauregard. He's named after a Civil War Confederate General. I don't think he's going to be invested in the Civil Rights Division. Just to hunt. He just probably might not be invested. It's just those touches that this show make sure that you understand. Like just a couple of my favorite parts that I wrote down here, right? They talk about Gondo being too flashy and all of this shit.

And he shows up to get arrested. He obviously doesn't know he's about to get arrested. He's just showing up to work, essentially. He's wearing an awful silk shirt. And Louis Vuitton. All the way on buttons, it was great. It's just perfect the way they did some of this stuff. Like, there was the part where.

um Carolina goes so like what was the unit like before um Raymond came on or whatever like what was it like and this is Gondo's response he says nothing inappropriate nothing illegal not really that's it it's just like

it's just perfect it's like these are cops it's so good this show is so good I also really liked when when uh when uh Raymond was in uh the I went to the party so that we finally

got some Baltimore club music in the show and he's like, he's just like at this party in his dress blues. Yeah, not giving a fuck. Yeah, it is uniform. Yeah, that was quite a party. Yeah. I kind of, I could have spent another five minutes

just wondering what was going on at that party. Was it a party? Was it a brothel? What was that? Where were we? No, it was just a party. I think his girlfriend was just there. His girlfriend was probably like,

lived at the crib that the party was at, so he's able to go, you know, you know, every party. You know, every house party. Like walks in and gets down. There's people all over the place. Every house party every now and again, there's a side room. We're only a few people are allowed to go with it.

That's right. And God only knows what they're doing. Should we have those side rooms at the Grandland parties, Chris, or no? Maybe it was a mistake. We should have more Baltimore club music at the garage place. Yeah, next time. Baltimore Club music and side rooms. All right.

So we'll return. We'll put up episode six right after Monday. We'll tape that Monday. And we can put that up so that. after it goes up, we'll be good to go. What a show. I'm going to miss it.

Ricillo, we were talking about it Sunday, and he stopped after episode three because he wanted to see it. He wants to make it last longer. Yeah. He's like, I'm holding on to this.

I don't want to spoil this yet. So good. He put it like in the wine cellar, like a bottle. I'm going to drink this later. This podcast was produced by Jesse Lopez. We will see you after episode six on Monday night. Thanks for listening.