The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Slow Horses’ Season 4 Premiere: Close Calls, Switcheroos, and Calculated Farts

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

Jo and Rob go on the run to recap the Season 4 premiere of ‘Slow Horses.’ They discuss whether the show has a house style when it comes to how it’s shot, the rapid pace at which the Apple TV+ series releases, and the wittiness of the writing (2:50). Along the way, they walk through some of the new characters introduced so far (22:01). Later, they unpack the fake-out at the center of the episode and whether the twist worked (36:07). Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney Producer: Kai Grady Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Not a cookout without craft. Back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna. I'm Rob Mahoney. We're here to talk about season four, episode one of slow horses. If you missed it, we did do a sort of like recap previously on a podcast about the first three seasons of slow horses. That is just a little back in the prestige feed if you want to go listen to that. Including, I would say, Joe, a very important reveal of what our email address for this season is going to be.

Would you like to share that with the people? No, I would like you to share it. the people are Romahony. Our new email address for slow horses, which, look, we want to hear everything you have to say about these characters, what's going on in the season, your favorite cold play song that you would like to play at, your funeral,

whatever it may be, please email Arsh-timed the Pope at gmail.com. That's A-R-S-E-Time-the-Pope at gmail.com. Rest and peace to our friend Min Harper. Another winner from Rob Mahoney on the email front. Thank you. She's crushing it genuinely. If you're like, hey, why aren't you,

reading out my email I sent to you after the recap pod. That's because full disclosure, we're banking this pod. We enjoyed some end of August vacation. But going forward, we will be reading your email sort of week to week on the show. We're not watching ahead. We're going a week to week to week. I'm not like you can all breathe aside of relief. I'm not reading the books.

We're just talking about the show. Wait, is this not a house of our deep dive? What's going on? I thought I came for the full experience. It's not Shoga neither. We're just slow horsing around. So listen, what we're, going to do today, though, is we're going to take, like, the last time we did a bit of a recap,

this, we're going to take sort of just like a wider lens look at, like, why we think Slow Horses is such a special show. And then we'll get into, like, some of the moments this episode. But I would say this episode isn't, like, really heavy on the twist and turns. There's, like, sort of one big twist, but Rob and I have seen too many films and TV shows to have been taken in. We can't be fooled that easily. We can't get us this time, Will Smith. Not that Will Smith. That brings us to Will Smith. Okay, so we are four seasons into Slow Horses.

Will Smith is the writer overseeing all seasons. And then there's a different director per season or series if you're British. So Adam Randall, who has done a couple of films that I personally have not seen, is a series director for number four. I want to ask you, Rob, if you feel like there is a house style of slow horses, I haven't really identified one. The only thing I will say, and this is maybe more of a writing choice

than it is a directing choice, but something I've noticed is that oftentimes, like, more often than not, you will end the scene on like a button, and then you'll stay with that character for like a beat or two more. They're just going to sit there

and soak in what happened. The soap opera kind of moment there. Yeah, but like it isn't always like, dun, dun, don't know, I don't mean it that way. just like get back to work. You know, like some, some bit of slice of life, I think. Yeah, slice of life is more when I'm going forward.

Like, sometimes they just get back to work. Like, sometimes they're just doing something very ordinary, not even like really processing, just sort of like, and then you just sort of, I don't know, you just sort of feel like you're with them. Yeah. In as their life continues. And I haven't seen anyone on the show talk about whether or not that's intentional, but it's something that they do time again, that's unusual for television. Yeah, I don't think there is.

is too much of a distinct house style, although I'll say I love the way that Slow Horses is regularly shot. And for a spy show and a spy product on TV, those can often look super cheap and super flimsy. Slow Horses never really feels that way. Even when you can tell that by setting, this is convenient from a budget perspective, right? Like going

out to a village in the middle of nowhere is very convenient to shoot a show and for budget reasons. But they make everything look great. I think the focus of the lens is always great. I'm struck by in the moment in this episode when Louisa believes River to be dead, the slow focus on her in the background given that we know their previous interaction,

things like that, I think, really pay off and really make this show sing. It's really the reaction I was looking for also. I was like, what does Louisa think? It's the only thing I wanted to know. Exactly. Other than who Roddy's girlfriend is. I also want to know who Roddy's girlfriend is.

Arstime the Pope at Gmail.com, good theories. Okay, based on, this is based on McHarran's books, Each season is sort of named for the book that it's adapting, right? Season 1, Slow Horses, Season 2, Dead Lions, Season 3, Real Tigers, season 4, Spook Street. Yes, definitely a Goosebub's book, for the record. I just want to say that McHaron, like the creators of the show,

stays busy. He started writing the Slough House series in 2010, not that long ago. There are nine Slyle House books, four novellas, plus three books not in the series, but with, like, the same characters. in like, wow, I wrote 12 years, 14 years, and 14 years since 2010. But that's a lot to put out in that time. He keeps it cooking.

And Apple TV is adapting another one of his series, Down Cemetery Road, is what they're calling it, starring Emma Thompson. Have you heard of her? And Ruth Wilson, who people might know from either Luther, a show that we were just talking about off-air or The Affair. She's so good on Luther

with love and respect to the affair. Her on Luther is one of the best things I've ever seen in my life. And so I'm really excited for this duo. It was announced just a couple months ago in April. It's being run by Morwena Banks, who is one of the Silhorses' writers. So they said she was spitting it off,

giving her her own show to run with fucking Emma Thompson in it. Come on. And Morwina has written a few of the episodes, including the one where men dies, Min Harper dies, one of the most important things that's ever happened on television.

Devastating. But the heron verse sounds very strong. It's exciting, right? I'm like, yes. I have to say, when you were describing his output, the first thing they jumped to mind to me was British Lee Child.

But then I realized Lee Child is also British. So I don't know where that leaves us. Other British Lee Child. The more British Lee Child. There you go. There you go. Yeah, so season five has already finished filming as we record this

I fucking love it. Honestly, the fact that Slow Horses ends every season with a tease into the following season, it's just shooting it straight into my veins. I am Shirley, snort and Coke off an Elton John's CD with these seasons.

That's who I am. This is what Will Smith, not that Will Smith said, of sort of his process. He says there has always been one in the edit and one in prepper shooting, so I slightly forget where I am. They're just constantly like juggling.

Oh, I can only imagine. amazing. Also, in terms of how long can they go, given how many books there are, et cetera, et cetera. Apparently, Gary Oldman told Will Smith that he will, quote, play the characters at the end of his career. He just wants to be

Jackson Lamb forever. And I love that for all of us. What a heartening thing to say for him, for us, for the future of slow horses, for hopefully Gary Oldman's career. I hope he's acting for 70 more years. I love it. This is a fun spy show.

We have a great time with the twist and turns. There's some good action in it. That's always fun. What really sells low horses is how clever and funny the writing is. And that's where we go back to Will Smith, not that Will Smith, who is from the Armando Ianucciverse. Yes. Wrote and appeared in the thick of it, in the loop, veep.

Of course. Just clever, mean jokes. British humor. He was a stand-of comedian before he was a screenwriter. So he's just like, it's just really, really funny. But also, I haven't read the books. But according to Will Smith, there are lines in the book that are so funny, like lines of dialogue in the book that are so funny that like Gary Oldman or Saskia Reeves who plays Catherine Standish will like request. They'll be like, please.

Can we say this line? Can you me up for this in episode three, please? Please lift this line word for word. I want to get a chance to say it. So credit to McHarran as well on the source material. What's wild to me is interesting to me, Wilson had a really hard time finding a home for slow horses. Like Apple took a chance on him and gave him two seasons from the jump.

We kind of knock Apple sometimes for its TV strategy, but like what do you think of this being the place that was willing to take something like so horses? I'm shocked in retrospect, but maybe I shouldn't be. It's such a weird place for finding the right. home for the right project right now. And maybe Stillhorses is as indicative of that as anything. Hopefully, Apple, at least to me, the problem I have with Apple shows is that when I am watching

one and loving one, no one else that I know is. And no one has heard of said show. And so there's a lot of, look, there's a lot of guerrilla marketing that someone who is just watching these shows has to do to get other people on board. And I would hope at some point, slow horses gets enough momentum, whether it's the rewards, whether it's the word of mouth, whether it's through just like stacking strong season after strong season, that there is a swell with this show, because it fully deserves it.

There's every reason that this should have a significant audience. And maybe it does, I don't have all the internal numbers, but anecdotally, I don't hear about slow horses a ton, as much as I do other kind of prestigious products. I think it's a little, I mean, we talked about this when we cover Presumed Innocent, which was

like a huge breakout for Apple. We talked about how, like, Ted Lassow on the comedy front, presumed innocent, on the drama front aren't like the two big hits they've had. the Emmy noms for slow horses for Gary Oldman for Jack Loudon for writing for you know like I think I got like

at least four um five maybe did they get a nom for whoever's doing the fart sound effects is that a production thing that can be rewarded a sound design yeah yeah it's got to be yeah unless it's coming from Gary Oldman authentically in which case just stack the awards for him organic homegrown I do have a section labeled fart jokes to talk to you about but um

I think that Apple, four time, no longer, I think they're tightening the belt. Fort Time was willing to throw money at anything with like a big star.

So like the fact that they got Gary Oldman to attach this project is what got, surely what got Apple interested in making the project. I just am surprised that the BBC didn't want this.

I don't know if Will was shopping U.S. Streamers only or if he was shopping the UK, but this just seems like it should be a BBC property. But like, I don't know,

maybe they didn't want to touch it because it implicates the MI5 in every twist and turn. That's a real the park thing to do. Just really trying to wiggle their way around the blowback that might be coming. Air slow horses, you cowards.

That's my perspective on these things. Smith has cited a few things, but two things I really want to shout out as inspirations for tone on the show. Happy Valley, which is an incredible crime drama out of the UK, that I absolutely recommend to anyone. It's on Netflix.

It's three seasons, I think. is so, so, so good. I really, really recommend it. It's not as funny, but in the lead character in that show, who's like a woman in her, like, I think early 50s who's been, you know, as a police,

sergeant, maybe. And it's just like, takes no shit, gets beat up a bunch. It's just sort of like walking around this sort of like, you know, she's a grandmother, but this all sounds like Grandma cop.

It sounds very cheesy as I describe it. I would watch Grandma Cop. In execution, I can see a line between Jackson Lamb and that character on Happy Valley in terms of just like someone who people underestimate for a variety of reasons who's extremely competent at their job and is also kind of mean. Those are true of both those characters. The other thing he cites, this is on the humor side is with Nail and I. Have you ever seen this movie? I actually have not. Obviously, it comes up a lot in the cult canon.

It is one of my favorite movies of all time, and it is just an all-time, iconic, drunk and high performance from Richard E. Grant. Richard E. Grant, as, like, just absolutely out of his gourd, that entire movie, is one of the treats, but extremely articulate, one of the treats of our times. So, like, in his, like, sloppy, slovenly drunkenness in that movie, I can also see some, like, Jackson Lamb DNA. And that's also a very funny, clever, exciting, action-y sort of at-time's movie. So those powers combined, I do think I can see them create slow horses, which is wonderful. Fart stuff. Anything else you want to say about Fart Stuff before I say what I want to say about Fart Stuff? This show just continues to set such a high bar for all fart-related content.

I thought it was going to have a hard time reaching the level of what for me is the high. I believe it's in season three. Jackson Lamb lets one rip in a car and warns not to let that get in the groundwater. But did they top it in this episode? I thought that, honestly they're just right back in form. We're right back in the lane. It's

perfect strike zone material for slow horses. The farts just continue to rip. Yeah, when he meets a flight, the new director of the dogs, and he's like, let me express my confidence. Like, what you'll hear next is the sound of me like supporting it

and then it's just like an all-time fart. is wonderful. I don't like fart jokes, generally. I love these fart jokes. And this is something that Smith said about the way they deploy them. He says, Gary sees it as more of a character thing. It's like a tactic Liam uses to put someone off their stride,

show them disrespect, or to confuse and disorient them. And I just love that. Like, just calculatedly, yeah, and then she's like, Louise, Flight says, like, can you do that on command? And he's like, why do one another? Like, it's great stuff. Really good.

It puts her on the back foot, the ease with which he is running circles around Emma Flight on their first meeting. It's exactly who Lamb is, and I think it shows very well. To people who might be just jumping into the show for the first time with a new season, oh, this is a guy who has, although maybe not full command of his physical faculties, or maybe full command if he can do it on command, but certainly command of the world around him and these other spies. And honestly, it's just a lot more clever than many of the people he interacts with. I want to talk to you about Mick Jagger. You mentioned him earlier.

Let's talk about the theme tune to Slow Horses. I think it's worth mentioning, genuinely, not just because I think it's a banger, not just because it's a song that I don't skip through when I watch the show. It's the perfect length where I want to be along for the ride, and there's no, like, lull where I second guess it. I'm just in the whole time.

I also think it's very charming that the reason McJagger did it is he was a fan of the books before the show happened. He's just like, because to your point about, like, who's watching Slow Horses, I'll tell you who was immediately. Like, Chris Ryan, and I were on those Slow Horses screeners

because Chris Ryan has like Chris Ryan has read the books has loves spy shows I just love everything as British. Chris also lives in the Brit box as far as I know. Absolutely.

But it's a dad show. Chris Ryan has like excellent dad taste even though he's not one necessarily and so I immediately after like the first two episodes there I messaged my dad and I was like are you guys watching slow horses? He's like, of course we are.

And I was like, yeah. How dare you? No, genuinely, of course, my parents are watching slow horses. So I think it is probably like a bit of like an older generation kind of show. But I think it's catching. To your point, I do think it's swelling. I do think it's like catching on a bit. And especially like it's so easy to catch up.

I think people are hopping on. And I think the Emmy Noms are a big, like I don't think it's going to win anything. But Gary Olman is out there on the campaign trail. He's doing all the interviews. and like, I think just seeing that it's nominated among these other shows that people are watching, they're going to be like, what's the horses? What is that? Should I be watching that sort of thing?

Totally. I think just putting it in the same categories as some of these other incredibly high-regarded prestige products is a meaningful thing. But back to McChaggart. I love, okay, to your point, the way that it starts is great. The way that his little hoots and howls will just come up in the middle of an episode, the sound cue and the way that then the words of the song, which are like a little on the, it's like, it's one of those theme tunes that they're like, this is the plot of the show, which is actually a rare find these days. You don't usually do that. But it's almost like a,

sorry, well, no, I want to apologize. This is what we do here. I overthink things. But like, it's almost like a, it's either like a ghostly haunting when he like, who's and howls and the, and the, like, and the tune sort of kicks in on the soundtrack. It's either like you fucked up moment or it's almost like this siren call of the potentiality of like maybe you can make it back into the game, right? Because the lyric that he has, there's always a hope on the slippery slope somewhere, a ghost of a chance to get back in that game

and burn off your shame and dance with the big boys again. Like there are these little wins that the characters have that they're like, is this the moment that takes me back to the park? This is the one, Joe. Am I going to make it? And it never is. So then I think I've noticed, what is it, Arstime the Pope at

Gmail.com, if you disagree. I think every, because I sort of sat up and paid attention on one of my rewatches the last couple weeks. The finale, they use a different verse for the outro than they do in one through five of every season.

Different from the dance with the big boys again. Different from that? Yeah, so you piled the corpse's exhausted your sources. Like, it's this whole verse we never hear, I think. I spot-checked this, and I think correct until the finale of every season. So it's just sort of like, here we go.

We're at the end. You piled up your courses. Corses, exhausted your sources. Please continue to do a Mick Jagger impression for us. I'll try to work them in. But honestly, it's just a perfect opening theme. The thought that comes to mind for me with it is, what if they let James Bond themes be fun again?

Yeah. Yeah. That's honestly the vibe that I think it cultivates. Don't worry about winning an Oscar. You don't have to win an Oscar for a James Bond song. It can just be fun. It can be fine. Well, maybe when we in our new Craig's,

list universe. We'll see what James Bond themes become. But call Mick. I think he would do it. Great choice. All right. Um, wait, didn't, I think, don't email me. I think the Rolling Stones did do a Bond theme. Don't email me. Okay. What's the difference between MI5 and MI6? I just want to clarify this really quickly in case you don't live in the UK or you don't know. Possible UK TV fans know this really well because there's a great show called MI5. It was called Spooks in the UK, but that's a slur here. So we called it MI5. It's a great show. show. But basically the difference is MI5 is like domestic. MI6 is international, like high-level spy craft stuff. So James Bond is MI6. MI5 is what's going on at home. It doesn't mean agents

don't go out there in the world. Catherine Waterson's character and season two is in like Turkey or whatever, season three is in Turkey. Like that's, that's, you know, MI5 agents do get to travel a bit, but mostly we're concerned with domestic events. And maybe blurring the line a bit by the end of this episode. Yes, because we're in France. In France? Yeah, I mean, they mix and mingle a plenty, you know, over the years. So that's sort of all the big picture.

I mean, I kind of stole a bunch of my big picture ideas when we did our recap episode. Anything else you want to say, like, big picture-wise? I don't want to get into our new characters next. Anything else you want to say sort of like big picture? I think the sense of humor for the show rightly gets the spotlight a lot of the time. It's very funny. It's really sharp. It's written in a way that very few things on television are.

But the spy craft is genuinely so good. And is a huge part of what I love about the show. Like the concurrent plots happening through a season of slow horses where often there's two or three kind of primary threads. And of course, they're going to be related in some way. They're always going to come together. I'm expecting that. But I can never quite pin down along the way, which one is the big. one and which one is the side thread.

And that is such a cool feeling. Especially, like, we've seen enough shows, as you said, Joe, to know. River is not dead. The fourth rule of TV, if you do not see River die on screen and see his face, he is not dead. We know all these things. I mean, yes. Let me, we'll get to the fake out death. I have some thoughts and feelings about it.

I'm actually kind of mixed. I didn't hate it as much as I usually hate a fake out death. I don't hate it. I just, there was no way I was going to believe it. I will say this before we come back to it later. Watching it, I was like, if this is not resolved by the end of this episode, I reserved the right to be mad. And then they resolved the end of the episode. I was like, okay, I can tolerate that.

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Jonathan Price and David Cartwright is not new, but has a much bigger role the season. I don't think he was previously in the opening credits and he's in the opening credits this season. So I think that's something to watch. Well, and maybe new in the way that clearly his dementia has progressed. And the character has changed a lot

from certainly the version, we saw in the early seasons. I was watching it. I was like, what did I just seen Jonathan Price do this in? I was like, oh, the crowd. He's giving me Prince Philip

five, oh no. I hope he doesn't take up cart racing or whatever it was that Prince Philip did at the end there. Okay, Hugo Weaving as Frank Harkness. He's not in this episode, but this is the first time

that Soul Horses is dabbling in this sort of like golden age of prestige TV era idea of bringing a notable actor to play this season's big bad. This reminds me of, like, Justified or Dexter or Sons of Anarchy, you'd be like, oh my God, they got Lithgow.

Like, Lithgow's here to be really scary. Okay. You know, Sam Elliott's here towards the end of Justified. What are we doing? So, like, we mentioned, like, Catherine Waterson showing up earlier, but this feels like a different, this feels like a different thing.

Hugo Weaving is, you know, according to press materials, even though we didn't see him in this episode, the villain, and the trailers, the villain of the villain. this season doing his Agent Smith American accent.

How do you feel about the fact that we don't know anything about him, but he's going to appear soon and be scary, I guess. He will appear soon. I love it in particular because there are so many Hugo Weavings. There are so many different kinds of villain that he can play where just knowing that he's in

the show, I don't really have a firm grip for what that character is going to be. And I love that we're starting from that place. With an actor who has such incredible range, in villainy. I'm really excited. Ruth Bradley is Emma Flight, new head of the dogs. This is our Duffy replacement. As you mentioned,

Jackson's already sort of running circles around her, and she's already falling into the trap that somebody can fall into. Diana warns her, she's like, don't, you're making a mistake. You're underestimating Jackson Lamb at your peril. Like, what are you doing? I also think her, like, her costume design is interesting to me. She's wearing, you know, like, Leo, I think, comments on her shoes.

She's wearing these lace-ups and, like, you know, her, like, pants are rolled. She looks like a little, like, I mean, looks like young and a little fashionable, not like as, like, Duffy tactical sort of as we were used to. What do you think of this, like, new energy at the head of the dogs? I can't wait to see how it bounces off, not just Lamb, but everyone else that a Duffy-like character usually comes in contact with. So I'm a little confused by her at this point. I want to know what her whole situation is,

what Emma's personality is in that role, because as we saw from Duffy, things can deteriorate quickly when you're in that particular job. You can go very swiftly from just kind of showing up and doing whatever Tavener says to all of a sudden being implicated in much more elaborate plots. It is going to be interesting. Because Duffy was such like in addition to everything else,

such like a physical menace. Yep. So it's such like a hulking guy. So like this, you know, women can be this shit out of people. We've seen Shirley do it. But there's nothing intimidating about her yet. I'm not intimidated by her in any way, and I kind of expect to be.

So, like, will I be? By the end of the season is the question I have. On that front, you know, while, you know, since we will not be seeing, presumably, Nick Duffy anytime soon, I just want to acknowledge that I think the coolest that River Cartwright has ever looked in this show was when he was getting the absolute shit kicked out of him by Duffy and just like kept getting up and bragging about how tough his balls were. So we will miss the physical menace. We will miss some of the bruising over at MI5 and certainly coming from the park.

But I'm optimistic and I'm hopeful that we're going to get a different riff on a character that had kind of... I don't want to say grown stale, but we knew exactly what Duffy's role in the story would be, which is to be a dog, to be sicked on people. And maybe Emma Flight is a different version of that same thing. I did think it was interesting that, like, Duffy seemed like such a loyal lap dog to Diana. But by season three, she's like, I hate Nick. Duffy and anything that makes him look bad, makes me happy. It's interesting that happens sometimes.

Yeah, also shout out the backup dog whose name I don't have in front of me with like the sticky out of ears who was in season one and season three. I really liked him. I'll miss you, my dude. Joanna Scanlon, no relation as Moira, Tregorian, filling in for Catherine at Sloughhouse because I refuse to believe that Catherine is gone for good. There's no way. There's no way.

Yeah, so she's bringing a very like, motherly sort of a vibe to the place. Very like, Dolores Umbridge without the like, hopefully fascism, but we'll see. What's your, what's your take on Moira so far? You know, there's something a little fascistic about her filing methods. I have to say, the indicators are there, Joe. Okay. All right. Don't be fooled again.

Absolutely not. We haven't seen the most important thing for Moira yet, which is how do she and Leia interact, given that she is going to be in the standish desk? That's what I'm waiting for. I'm very excited to find out. I completely agree. Tom Brooke playing this character called J.K. Co. We meet briefly.

He's got a black hoodie up over, pulled up over his head. This guy, Tom Brooke has showed up in a lot of places. He's just always a genius of playing tall, spooky guys. Like, that's just what he does. He's just like. It's a type. He's tall. He's spooky.

It's a living, Joe. Come on. He's kooky. Sometimes like scary, sometimes like a gentle giant. Anyway, I like him in anything I've ever seen. so I'm excited that he's sort of like joining, filling out the slough house ranks here. And refusing to speak. Has one word in this episode, which is screaming fuck after he becomes like collateral damage from a flying stapler.

Yeah. Okay. Tune in to see how that goes progressing. Last, but certainly not least. Oh, my God. Guy is Baltar from Battlestar Galactica himself, James Callis as Claude Weillan here to replace Ingrid and bug the shit out of Diana Tavener, our new first desk. I'm obsessed with this, and I'm obsessed with his introduction in this episode because they get out at the bomb site. And first and foremost, he has nothing, he says completely ineffectual.

I mean, something like this, there are no words, it's just. That's like, he just says nothing to do when he gets out of the car. We hear him reference his first desk sort of right away, and we have all the information we need. Diana worked so hard last season to get Ingrid out so she could take her job and they promoted this dipshit over her and she's going to have to deal with that for at least the rest of this season. And it's an actor we love who's so good

was smart. James Colley. He's not only going to be smart but has the uncanny ability to play characters that you think might be the dumbest person in the world. Yeah. Just people who are just perpetually in over their head. And the duncery that he's able to project

is so good with Claude in particular and given everything that we know about Diana. And I would even say even after all the terrible things that she did in the first three seasons, there was still a part of me that's like, you go, girl. You got it. You finally got, you were willing

to throw everyone under the bus to get there, but at least you did the one thing you wanted to do. And apparently she got it for a couple months on an interim basis and then got yanked out of there at first opportunity for this guy of all people. And coming off of the the Tavern or tyranny conflict,

pairing her opposite an absolute dufus is just an incredibly inspired follow-up to that. One of my favorite pieces of production design, his office, all of the photos are like,

or a lot of the photos, at least, are like him skiing with someone. It's so perfect. It's just like, so douchey. Yes, I agree.

Diana Taviner is such a fun character because, as we mentioned our recap, she is like quite often our antagonist. And also I'm like, yeah, gate keep, girl boss, gas, light your way to the top, babe. I'm rooting for you.

I really did. I really wanted her on first desk, and I think this is a great dynamic. And again, to, like, sort of Will Smith-Mcarran's point of, like, let's just constantly change the dynamic up. Like, Diana Tavner is still at second desk, but it is a completely different dynamic than we've seen her operate under, like, I mean, in season two, we did, Ingrid isn't even in that season, so we were like, she would just seem like queen of her own. domain. And now she's just so

competent and having to like take meetings that this guy is supposed, you know, she's like, I don't even get out of the meeting, the dumb meetings that I don't want to go to. All because this guy is afraid to go too. I can already tell that one of my favorite things this season is going to be watching Claude in the

backgrounds of scene just like with his arms folded deciding when he should say something. Yeah. Yeah. In the like situation room or whatever when they're like watching the op and he's like trying to be involved. And we've seen Diana runs so many things from that room. First he's just trying to figure out how to get the earpieces.

He's really starting from the ground up. It's a lot. All right. So those are all our new characters. Then I want to go back to the beginning of the episode and start with, I actually think my favorite scene of the episode, which is Louisa and River. It's brief. It's not Roddy in the Chick-a-Doo.

Though if you want to talk about Roddy Ho and the Chick-a-Doo, we can definitely do that. I mean, just the rotisserie and chicken. It was working for me I gotta say. Or him and his like the best headphones you've ever seen in your entire life

that can somehow block the sound of an exploding shopping center. I believe if this is a guy who's paying like $200 for a smart tumbler or whatever he had in the previous season,

yeah, he's gonna have 600 pound headphones. Like I believe it. I love it. Louis and River. The very quick scene is before the opening credits because we have to get like

a lot out of the way before we shoot someone who's not River and then go into Mick Jagger wooing us into a new season. I love this because, like, so she thinks he's asking her out. Like, we all kind of wonder for a second as he asking her out.

That's what they're going for. Of course. And, you know, it may be a rule that a character will never die if you don't see their face when they die, but it's also a rule that over a long enough timeline, every romantic pairing and a show will happen. So it's possible, you know? I don't, like, I don't necessarily ship them, ship them necessarily. I don't, I like their dynamic a lot.

I don't hate it. Yeah. But what I think is. What I found even more sort of like pointing in this is when she's like, cheers to not being in Slough House next year. And he's like, oh,

you're thinking of, like, he's so upset to hear that she might leave him behind at Slough House. Like, what is Slough House for River if Louisa isn't there anymore? And again, that's just like that, it's a three-season payoff of this dynamic

when, like, we barely saw them really interacted season one. She was paired with Min. He was with Sin. Did they say two words to each other in season one? I don't know that they interact at all. may not have, you know? And so like, and then him like, you know, helping her through men's death and like all that sort of stuff and then just watching them work together in season three.

So it's just sort of like a well-earned like solid partnership. And then her calling him out like on his shit and just saying like tough shit, go see your grandfather. Like I just, I really loved this scene. Often seasons of so horses, like rivers in France now. Like when is he coming back? I don't know how much of this episode is going to take place in France because he was in like

the Cotswolds for most of season two so like I don't like oftentimes this show throws people apart, scatters them. So like definitely. I don't know how much he and Louisa will be together the season. I think it was really important

to have this scene so that when we get the fake out death, I don't believe he's dead. I do care that Louisa thinks he's dead. Absolutely. That's a fundamental difference. And I will say, You mentioned the payoff of having River be upset at the idea that Louisa might quit.

One other person who was upset, Joe. This guy. Oh. That felt like, that felt like some foreshadowing to me. So the worst has a tendency in the early episodes of these seasons. You know, like season three, Catherine Stand is going to talk a lot about Charles Partner and how she doesn't believe in the new direction of MI5. Like they seed all this stuff pretty early in these seasons.

And if Louisa quits at the end of this season, I'm going to be pretty broken up about that. hopefully that's not where we end up. Obviously, for character reasons, I would see how we got there, but I want Louis on the show. Take that diamond and go to the Grand Caymans or something like that? The Thomas Crown Affair, but with Louisa's diamond. Can we make, can we do a spin-off?

Okay, I would watch it. Do you think Will Smith has time between constantly cranky-hous to give us a Louisa spin-off? Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I've been wondering, we haven't gotten it yet, but I've been wondering if we'll get a season with someone from Slow House back at the park. If that dynamic, you know what I mean?

Like if Louise is back at the park or Rivers back at the park, those are the only two that I really see having a chance of making that happen. You don't think Roddy's going to make the jump? I don't think Roddy's going to make it back. Then, like, what will that dynamic be? What would the tensions be behind that sort of thing? So that's, again, I don't know. But that's something that, like, would you be interested if we get to keep Louisa,

she's just not in Slough House anymore? As long as she's still a critical character on the show. And that's always the dance with these things. when someone moves up, when they go to work for the rival, whatever it is, how can you tailor the plot to keep them involved? It can be a difficult thing. You're making me think of when Carrie left the firm and the good wife.

That was not the one that came to mind for me. I don't even know. I'm thinking Major League 2. I'm thinking Angel Season 5. There's a lot of stuff happening. Okay. All right, let's talk about the fake out death. This was a payoff of the post-season 3 teaser.

The post-season 3 teaser is Jackson Lamb saying the line from this episode. one of my team just died, right? Yes. Thank God that was in episode one, by the way. Yeah. Okay. Question I have in my notes that I know is the answer is no is given how ready slow horses is to kill off characters, were you fooled at all? Okay, so he comes in, we don't see his face. I think for those of us who are paying too much attention, they did a good job with a voice where, like, I think it's Jack Loudon just doing a slightly different regional accent,

just like ever so slightly. It did sound like him, and I was scrubbing the credits to see if they attributed to anybody, but there's nothing listed as far as who that voice could be. I liked it. The reason I kind of liked it before I didn't like and then got back to being like, it's fine, is like we're inside David Cartwright's dementia confusion. You know what I mean?

So like the fact that we don't see the face when he comes in means that we can be with David and his like, what the fuck did I just do? And then when the whole episode was like trying to tell us that that was River, I was like, well, not the whole episode. Jackson's like pretty quick to Catherine's house. But, like, you know, it's like, I got a little like, are we doing this?

I don't want to do this. And then it was resolved. And so I was sort of like less annoyed by it. But like, genuinely, I do, other than Gary Oldman, I actually would not be shocked if they killed River Cartwright at some point. And I would not be shocked if they killed Diana Taviner at some point. Like, genuinely, I would. This is just not the moment to do so.

And I have to say, I'm not bothered by the fact that they did it at all. I actually think the dementia induced, oh, is that river, he rushes up the stairs, hooded, we never see his face effect. I think all that's very good. And it creates a great drama in that scene. I think what I would have wanted is, maybe from the point that Lamb sees the body,

a little bit more of a direct result where there's an acknowledgment, like, obviously that's not him. Yeah, I think there's a million ways you can do it, but there was just like a little too much hang time there where a lot of us are going to know what the game is that's being played here. Right.

And so dangling it at all these different ways didn't work for me quite as well as it might have. I just, I generally like resent a fake-out death. I don't hear, but like generally it's like one of my least favorite tactics that people can do in storytelling. But yeah, and there's like the shot, there's the scene with Gary Olman. I actually wanted to let's assume I had to this. Like with the Jaffa Cakes in the car. Big episode for Jaffa Cakes. Sort of bothered me.

Jaffa Cakes are gross, by the way, because I. Gross? Yeah. don't email me. What? I'm not even usually, I'm usually not an orange and chocolate guy. I hate orange and chocolate.

But a jaffa cake kind of goes. I can't. It kind of works. Orange and chocolate is just not for me. It's just simply not for me. So more jaffa cakes for everyone else. I love that for you guys. When he's sitting in the car,

eating his last jaffa cake. The last of round one of his jaffa cakes. Well, he's about, yeah, he's about to go replenish his resources. I think we're meant to take that as like a, him processing the death, but I guess what's actually happening as he's like thinking, like where could Cartwright be? And then we see him again in the corner market, the bodega, whatever you call that in the UK.

And getting more jaffa cakes. We get a little connection to the terror plot via the, like, newspapers. That was such an odd scene to me, like on a rewatch. I'm like, what is this scene accomplishing? I'm not sure I have a good answer for you. And maybe there's something in retrospect. Okay. Maybe something later.

Maybe that's something that will make sense. I do think as far as the initial processing scene for Lamb, and really him arriving and knowingly identifying the body as River when it is not River. Yeah. That's great. I love that. All great. And I love the presentation of that idea of he knows River well enough to know that

that if he's posing this to be his own death, there's a reason for it. Yeah. And that the only way that the phone and wallet could really have gotten there is if River planted it. We already talked about you already wanted to flag sort of Lamb and Emma's interaction here. Not great stuff for Emma so far, but we'll see. Okay, given that, like, in our recap episode, we sort of like went through who the antagonists are in these various seasons. Right now we're presented with this. We're presented with the specter of future Hugo weaving.

we've got a faceless man who tried to kill question mark David Cartwright Yes And then the low Or at least run him a bath We know he wanted to run him a bath For some reason The real tell was when he referred to David as Gramps

And I'm like that's not River That simply would not happen Absolutely the tell And also if you're trying to like If this is also a spy This is a spy for the other team or whatever Prett right why would you go with Grant?

Like, why would you, I would not risk any sort of affectionate name if I didn't already know that the person, like, said it. Was he watching, was he like binge watching succession? And he's like, that's what Nick Braun always called in his grandfather, Gramps? Like, is that what we're doing?

It is very Nick Braun. It is very like Bart Simpson. Like, it's just not River, whatever it is happening there. All right. So you've got this lone wolf slash murderous prick if you're Louisa, the angry young man bomber.

sort of archetype as a season antagonist question mark? I mean, no, he's blown himself up. He's dead, so yeah. So how, since it always connects, and since even Diana Taviner thinks it's connected already, how are you in your head connecting a suicide bomber at a mall with this young man who breaks into

David's house? I have zero clue. And that is what to me is exciting. And at the end of this episode, you know, we see two passports. in this episode. You do see the bomber. Robert Winters. You can see it on the passport. He has identified himself that way. He's rented

everything under that name. It's there for the police and the SWAT team to find when they do raid his house. The passport that River has in hand at the end of this episode is under a different name. Adam Lockhead. I can't really recognize the person in the photo. It's a pretty slim look that we get at that passport, so we don't really know who he's going after or what thread he's chasing.

But it's clearly a different one that I think is staged in this episode. Well, so I think that's supposed to be the passport or the guy who's in the bathtub I think is that because I thought

the photo looked kind of like him. Did we see that guy? No. It looked like River Carver you're saying. Yeah. It looked like Jack Loudwood.

Interesting. So we've got two young men having attempted an assassination and attempting a bombing or successfully

bombed a mom. And one of of them is an IT consultant. We know that. Which affirms my theory that all consultants are capable of mass murder, but that's for a different pod, maybe. I think it's interesting. This episode is called stolen identity, right?

Isn't that what's called? Stolen ID? Identity theft. Identity theft. There you go. Identity theft. Hmm. Flagging it. Are those passports? Are those passports? Do we need, like, the clue board with the yarn? Like, I mean... But here's the thing. At the point where you make the board, aren't we

the rogue tiger team in season three? Like, the villains are the ones with the board. in slow horses, you know? We're heroes. We're heroes. I don't know how to watch a show without a board, you know? I don't know. We need the board. I'm just saying like, you know, this show really tests

our cleverness, our know-how, our ability to not be River Cartwrights ourselves and jumping at the first clue on the board. You know, I'm just saying I'm wary of slow horses game and I'm dutifully but warily playing it. Oh, we're going to get, go down the wrong path sometimes. Let's just accept that. ours time the Pope at gmail.com with your theories as to what's going on.

Also, no book spoilers, please. For either of us. Oh, yes, please. I'm sure the answer exists in the pages of a McCarran novel, but we are not... Don't want to know. We want to get God.

As Roddy says, you got to be in the game to get played. We want to get played out here. Also, like, again, this is just like very... Slow Horses isn't trying to make, like, big artistic choices necessarily or whatever, but like just little things like,

Louise is just shopping while she's talking to him about like at the, you know, it just, the fact that Louise is just like throwing stuff in her basket and being like,

see if you can work out what happened to Roddy when he's at the chicka-do. Like, it's just very like our lives go on, you know, sort of thing. Okay, I have a couple of things I want to get to.

Obviously, your favorite, Shirley, is getting experimentally waterboarded by Marcus in this episode. As friends do. You want to talk about that, Rob?

You know, I just think it's educational. You know, she's learning the process. She's learning the method. She's learning that she lasted exactly seven seconds being waterboarded, which is tough before apparently giving up. All I want is more for Shirley and Marcus to do. That's what I'm hoping for this season. And we're starting with waterboarding.

And we're also starting with them gambling using paper clips, which I guess is some kind of progress. But let's get Shirley out in the field. You know, let's get her chasing after some passports. Okay. I love it. my other favorite after Louisa and River in the Bar is Jackson and Catherine's reunion in her flat, right?

In her house. When do you think Jackson Lamb knew that it wasn't River? Was it like just from laying eyes on him or what do you think? Because it's one of the chest and one in the head. So I don't know how much like face was there to identify. And that was a, I believe, a shotgun, right? Or at least a rifle. Yeah.

I mean, we don't know what happened here. Everything that happened. Like, how did River scoop up David? Like, all this or stuff. We don't know that whole story. What we do know is that David fired one shot and that body had two shots in it. 100%. And so my expectations, David hit the chest and River hit the face so that it was harder to identify.

It's like, I think a reasonable guess there. But when do you think Jackson knew? I think he knew when he saw the body. and he saw the two bullets or the two impact wounds. What I'm still trying to work out is why River, under those circumstances, would think it's important for he himself to go undercover. Like if someone is coming after David,

which it appears to be the case, do you? River, it's always like I'm the hero this moment needs. They're coming after my grandfather to get to me, clearly. Classic, classic. Well, I think, I mean, I guess if there's like a passport with a photo that kind of looks like him, he'd be like, let's go. I just think River running headlong off to France

and not checking in with anyone and just being like, I'll figure this out, is very on brand for him. Oh, that part of it makes total sense. But his vision of the plot is something I'm very, I can't wait to see unveiled in season two or episode two or episode three. It's like what he thinks is happening here

and what he thinks he is contributing to it is what I always want to know from River. What do you think you're accomplishing here, remember? Okay, great question. At all turns. In season two, when he gets sent to the Cotswolds, essentially, to go undercover, and he's like, he's got his glasses and he's got his whole, like, roll. And, like, I can't remember.

I should thought he was pretty good undercover, too, I have to say. I can't remember who was, who was like, does he know he's bait? I'm probably Catherine. Does he know he just send him there to be bait? Okay. So let's go back to Catherine. This seems like the first time they've talked to each other since the end of Season three.

At least a while. Yeah. And she's quit. He won't let her quit. Fairly classic. I just like how smart he is, and I never question why he knew that River would go to Catherine, to stash David.

Like, he just knew, and I agree. You're right. That's what he would do. Well, I think some of it is like, who would River Cartwright know? They would actually be the kind of person to take care of his sick grandfather. who actually is big-hearted enough to do that and would understand the urgency of the situation.

And when you have those two circles of the Venn diagram, there really is like one person in the middle of it. And also kind of knows David herself, because, like, you know, goes back to the Charles days. And maybe doesn't know that he's involved in Charles Partners' murder? I don't know for awareness of that piece of the puzzle. Yeah, I don't think she knows that. I don't think so either.

No. At this point, David might not know that he was involved in it. I really liked this. I liked this interaction. I thought it was great. I thought it was really funny when he, like, tells her reverse 10. She's like, trying to pretend. He's like, you're so bad at this.

And he's like, also his car is outside. She's like, God damn. Yeah, I just, I thought this was great. I thought it was great. Again, like, sort of with, like, inefficiency of storytelling. The way they established the dynamic between Diana and Claude, first and second desk really quickly. And the way in which we are just like quickly caught up on the fact that like

Catherine's trying to quit and he won't let her and they haven't seen each other. But like I think he honestly there's a part of me. It's not that I'm like, it's not that I think he's like in love with her. It's not necessarily that. I mean, I think there's a kind of love there. But there is a, that's what I mean. There's like a kind of love there. I think he both thought River would go there and also is excited for any opportunity to

bust his way into Catherine's house completely I'm reminded often of when she's taken hostage in season three and all the other stole horses are kind of mystified as to why like why would she have been grabbed and Lamb's response is like maybe they had a death wish you know there is a

I will kill anyone who touches Catherine Standish quality to Lamb that also occasionally leads him to knock on her door with some Jaffa Caps and be a dickhead but like that's who he is one of my favorite previous season interactions is when she's like she says something she's like

just as much as I want to see you and your nylon Y friends he's like why do you know I have nylon Y friends like I have to buy them and he's like very convenient drip dry just great stuff well and we get a quick shot of his socks at the beginning of this episode and he's got that hole at the bottom

of the back of your heel which is the worst place to have a hole in your sock but clearly he's incapable of shopping for himself. Jackson Lamb. Get on Amazon. It's not that hard to get socks. Yeah.

I was much to say, ask Roddy to do it for you. Roddy never would. Okay, so, Roddy's girlfriend, is this part of the plot? She is the actual bomber. Everyone else is a puppet in her scheme.

Hugo Weaving. Hugo Weaving is catfishing Roddy as his girlfriend. Where did they meet? Is she also a metalhead? Is she also a tech wizard? Is she... I mean, definitely a chat room of

Also in love with Louisa. I don't know. It could be any number of things. Great question. Okay. Anything else you want to say about this episode or slow horses in general? Just a little awakening for me personally at the end of this episode, which is, as River is driving off in the French taxi cab into the sunset, we're bumping to some like a sick beat with like some French talks singing, if not rap. I don't want to ascertain the exact genre of that, but like it was kind of working for me.

I think I might be into French electronic rap now. I think that might be a thing for me. Oh my God. I love this for you. If you have any recommendations for Rob, Restim the Pope at Gmail.com. I believe that song is called Solilis, if you want to look it up on your Spotify of choice,

although the spelling is very counterintuitive. So maybe actually look up the credits for this episode. How do you spell it? S-O-T-L-A-S-S-S-E. Just as it sounds, as we know. Wonderful. exciting. Viva de France.

Excited to go to France with River Carrey. Maybe I'm just Olympics spilled. I don't know what's happening, but I'm into the French connection we have now. Same, same. I'll miss sending you

like soap opera stories from the Olympics that I used to send to you and Kai. What a time we had this summer. Okay, that does it. For Slow Horses' Season 4, Episode 1, we'll be back with episode 2. We'll be back with some of your emails

if you've sent them over. Thanks to Kai Grady, as always, the best. thanks to Justin Sales, where his work on the Hold Seed. Thank you to Rob Mahoney. That's for youish. Thank you, Joe. Bye.