The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Slow Horses’ Season 6, Episode 4: Ready, Set, Coe

Episode Date: October 7, 2026

Jo and Rob crank up the bisexual lighting as they dive into ‘Slow Horses’ Season 6, Episode 4. (0:00) Intro (5:46) Mailbag check-in (16:11) Putting the plot together (23:57) River and Sid (25:19) Best spycraft (26:39) Worst spycraft (31:49) Jim and Jane (34:38) Coe’s fate (46:17) Showdown at the Shake Shack (1:00:19) Lamb shank of the week (1:07:04) The Ann memorial fray bentos taste test Email us! [e-mail] or [e-mail] Follow us on IG and TikTok! Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob MahoneyProducers: Devon Renaldo and Kai GradyStudio Production: Jacob Cornett Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Now more than ever, quality matters, but so does price. At Marshalls, you don't have to choose. You can get the good stuff for less, the stuff that lasts, because there's no point in tightening your belt if it's just going to break when you do. Get the good stuff in store at Marshalls today. Welcome back at the Prestige TV podcast, I'm DeWater Robinson. I'm Rob Mahoney. We have a very special episode of the Prestige Television podcast for you today.

What are they not? Today's extra special, would you not say? I mean, it's your belated birthday. My belated birthday, that's right. But that's not why it's special. We might die before this podcast is over. We're going to put ourselves to the test. We have, obviously we're talking about episode for series six of slow horses.

A great episode. Excellent. I actually think there's a scene in this episode that is maybe a top five favorite slow horses scene of all time for me. I'm eager to hear what it is because I think there's like three or four nominees. Lost and Found is the name of the episode. We will be discussing it. Dead Animal Watch. And he did.

No dead animals on this episode. No dead animals, but multiple people watching weird animal TV, nature doc stuff on TV. So it's a very like arcade forward season and a dead animal in nature documentaries. I mean, you know we're going to circle back to the arcade. Double arcade in this episode. A lot of it happening. Yeah. Some more authentic than others.

Okay, fair enough. We are quick program reminders or just sort of call to action, I should say. What we have coming up on the schedule, because we only have two more episodes of Slow Horses to Go. which is wild. Coming up a little later on the schedule, November 1st, it's a new season of Gilded Age, a show neither of us had really gotten into. I'd watched a little bit of. You had watched none of.

We decided to go all in on Gilded Age this fall into winter. I think that's what people do around our age in general. Yeah, get really into Gilded Age. So we're going to cover the new season of Gilded Age. So if you are not a guildhead, I don't know what they call themselves, an ageerino. Lilies? I'm trying to think of like, what is the appropriate pun? I love that.

But we are going to be among them. Yes. So, like, catch up. You've got a month to catch up before the new season starts on November 1st. Or if you've been a longtime fan, we will be digging into your fandom alongside with you. Yeah. And I want to know, are you spiritually old money? Are you spiritually new money?

Where are you on the opera box debates? Yeah. I want to really get into it for Gilded Age, I think. We have some ideas. We're quite excited for this. A couple other sort of outside of our normal coverage plans that we have for the rest of the year, We already mentioned this that we're going to do a roundup of TV needle drops. You guys have been doing a really good job sending us emails.

Outstanding. Send us more, please. Not just because my email inbox might have deleted some. Send us all of your needle drop emails. What were the best TV needle drops this year? Starting January 1 of this year, any TV show is eligible. Anything. Send us what the track was, what the context is,

and we will have a reckoning about it in some form or another in a podcast. And then we're also doing a, I don't know how to describe it, I'm just going to call it a celebration of the TV Nepo Babies this year. And our incredible producer dev has put together a very comprehensive list. But just in case we missed anything. I like to think of it as a dossier. Yes, absolutely. Just in case we miss anything, we would love to solicit from the listeners,

prestige TV at Spotify.com, your needle drops, your Nepo Babies. and your Gilded Age enthusiasm. And if you have any slow horses takes, how should they contact us? They should always email us at prestige tb at Spotify.com. But as you say, for slow horses, arstime the Pope at gmail.com. And it's been popping off. I think people are having a lot of fun with this season, especially trying to get ahead of some of the mysteries, trying to tie all the threads together.

Yeah. And people have been very sharp in their observations so far. So Jim and Jane, who are on the hunt, for our, you know, main crew are following them from location to location and we've got several emails

from people wondering if they have some sort of tracking device at play. We had sort of touched on this last week. Is there some sort of tracking device happening? And is it the shrapnel in Sid's head? Is it Porro?

Is it a lot of people were wondering if it was Poirot himself? I don't see any way unless the park is tracking there. That's the thought. You think so. You think the park put a tracking

device in Sid's head while they were in there removing the bullet. They're like, why not tag and release this agent? Does seem like something they might do. I think coming out of last week's episode, again, we already had our questions. Like the speed with which they were catching up to them was just uncanny. And then this week especially, the pull off the highway into the roadside mall, how else would they know to be there unless they had some kind of tracking? Also, do we have versions of these?

So, Sid calls it services, like a service station. So, yeah, it's like a... I guess we have, like... We do have these, just not everywhere. But not to this degree, with an arcade in it? I've been to one like this. Okay. I've never seen anything like this in the U.S.

I first encountered it in the Midwest. Like, driving around the Midwest from city to city. Okay. And understandable, like if there's a snowstorm, there's some reason you want to kind of like spend time, that's the difference. That's true. There was one place in like sort of upstate New York that we stopped that was like more mall, like had a food court-esque type thing. But like this seemed just way more...

extensive than anything I'd ever seen. The multi-level, the arcade. There's a cricket mobile in here. Yeah, exactly. It just seemed like a lot was going on. Yeah. I was like, what is this a mall? And then I realized it was sort of a roadside thing. So the is it being tracked? Is Co's car being tracked? Could be. Another culprit here. And then we got, we just got some emails from listeners on our T conversation from last week. And I just want to clarify, I must have misspoken in some way because I think people thought that I, I thought that Builders' tea was Earl Grey. I do not think that. You would never think that. I would never think that. And you would certainly never say it on a podcast. Into a microphone for the record? Of course not.

Absolutely not. But our listener Helen wrote in to clarify that Builder's tea is a very strong cup of tea with milk, made the mug using a tea bag. But the variety would only ever be what you would call English breakfast and what we would call tea. So a strong cup of tea, very milky. Not a pot, but just sort of like made on the go. Yeah. Is the vibe. And most of our listeners do feel like.

because Sid got the jug of milk out that, like, Builders Tea was what was perhaps on the menu. Seems fair. Those are the main emails, except we got this very important email from our listener. I believe it was Anne. I didn't write it down, but I believe it was Ann. We mentioned the phrase bisexual lighting at the end of last week's episode. And it sort of, that setting, the bowling alley, is what sets off this week's episode. And our listener was like, hey, what's that?

Why do you say that? Like, everyone knows what that is? Rob, should we explain what bisexual lighting is? I would love to. First, I would love the help of producer Jacob. Jacob, you can hit the lights. Come on. That's it.

That's it. It's bisexual lighting time. This is bisexual lighting. It's a bright pink, blue, purple situation, any sort of permutation there of. Originated on Tumblr, on the... As all great things do. On the Super Wholock Tumblr, Sherlock. It's from an episode of Sherlock, the Bachelor Party episode of Sherlock, where Holmes and Watson are like in a club.

And because the lighting, these three colors are the colors of the bisexual flag. Because the lighting scheme was thus, some hopeful folks on Tumblr were like, this means that not only is John Watson excited to marry his soon-to-be wife, Mary, but is also in love with Sherlock himself. who is also clearly kind of in love, hate with Moriarty, it's complicated. It's very complicated. What I'm hearing is these are the lights that launched a thousand fix. Absolutely. You crushed it. 2014 is the origin of that Tumblr story.

Not the first time this lighting was ever used in anything. Darya Argento, among other 70s, R. Tours was a fan. As you can imagine, the 80s had a lot of this energy going on. But the assignation, like, assigning it to this idea of bisexuality. Yes. really kind of originated from this Tumblr post and then I would say creators ran with that

and intentionally used it in certain scenarios. So what do you want to shout out as some of your favorite uses of bisexual lighting in film and television? I'm curious if your first exposure. Yeah. Because I agree with you. Clearly creators were running with it at a certain point.

I think the speed run for the phrase bisexual lighting from concept to term to trope is like as fast as like, I've ever seen in modern media. The internet was gunned. Really ablaze. And for me, my first experience with it was an Atomic Blonde, which is like very overt. That's the quintessential one for me.

That's the one. And like Atomic Blonde just ease, I mean, first of all, Charlize's character is canonically bisexual in that. Yeah. The, you know, this last week's episode of Slow Horses ended with a sort of Cynthia wave moment. This starts with Take On Me by Aha. So that music plus this lighting is the entirety of a lot of. Atomic Blonde, essentially.

So, yeah, that's 2018, because that's when Blade Runner 2049 comes out, which is drenched in this masterpiece. Atomic blonde. If you're a robot, are you bisexual? Let's ask Anna Darmus. I mean, I just have questions. She's just made of this light, essentially. Janelle Monet, 2018, single, make me feel.

It was such a thing in, like, 2018, that a bunch of, you know. I thought you meant Janelle Monet. I was like, that thing never left for some of us. There's no was such a thing, is such a thing, Janelle Monet. But 2018 was such a sort of like fever pitch of this conversation that many, you know, New York magazine, BBC, guarded, like all these places had explainers. It was so funny because I was reading some of them. And I just want to say, there's no way, there's nothing to make you feel sort of like older

or how long have I been having this conversation with myself than to see tweets you wrote in 2018 cited inside of articles about bisexual. lighting. Can you quote some, please? It's not things I wrote, but just sort of like, the assassination of Gianni Versace, that was this lighting, the moonlight poster. Of course. Is maybe, Atomic blonde is like the movie I think of, but that triptic moonlight poster, I think about a lot when I think about bisexual lighting. Anything else that comes to my view? I think there's, there's kind of a weird tangle here between just coming out of the 2000 specifically, which I associate much more with like chrome, very static sort of lighting.

And this being like a very neon era in general, like a reclamation of, as you alluded to, like a lot of these very 80s color schemes. And so there's some that just kind of stumbled into it by accident. And then there's some like, I mean, we've just been talking about euphoria this year. I think clearly euphoria is if not piloting this moment, hijacked it and just like, flew it wherever you think it flew it, but certainly is a part of the formula. Loki Season 1, episode 3. Yeah.

The two buy icons, by icons, Loki and Loki, Loki and Sylvie. The director of that episode, Kate Heron, has said, I intentionally put bisexual lighting on this scene for a reason. So all this shoot, San Juan Apparo episode, Black Mirror. Heartstopper. Heart stopper. Neon demon. Yeah. Heeded rivalry.

The tattoo club sequence and heated rivalry. one of the most iconic memed sequences is drenched in this as a character is really kind of understanding his bisexual identity at the same time. Well, that's the cheat code, too. How do you organically introduce bisexual lighting into your show or movie? You put him in a fucking club. I was watching this great video about bisexual lighting where he was, he had clips from the documentary Paris is burning where they were talking about sort of club lighting.

and how it's associated with movement and being free and feeling safe in your identity and all this sort of stuff like that. So the connection is not so tenuous between club lighting and then like sexual freedom inside of all that sexual identity. I just want to highlight two more, really, that I have on my list. Kylo versus Ray at the end of Force Awakens. It's a red saber and a blue saber, but the way it's lit on the snow is very bylighting.

And the way their faces are like lit by the sabers. This one I do buy, but there is, I feel pardon it, but there is a red, look, red and blue are just such common color motifs across the board for everything ever. And some people try to grab that and latch on to it in the Tumblr sort of way. It's like, is this bisexual lighting? Sure. I think the reaches can be a little strong at times, but last jet, I do tend to agree. Anything else you want to mention? I think we hit the main points.

I mean, there's also stuff that's like kind of borderline or suggestive like spring breakers, I think is in that zone too where it's. Like, is it part of the text? I don't know, kind of, but it's almost more pink than it is blue. And also, I want to note, too, that I think there is clearly the sexual fluidity part of this. There's also just a broader gender fluidity part of this lighting and conversation. It's like, to me, it's more gradient than it is pink and blue, if that makes sense. Absolutely. It's a spectrum.

So it's been said. In 2018, the bisexual lighting conversation was so prominent in certain corners that the pantone color of the year was ultraviolet. Oh my God. Intentionally sort of as reference to bisexual lighting. In 2018, one at a time. I think that hit everything. The Legend of Cora finale, of course, very important.

And what I will say about, so is it being used intentionally here to denote any sort of bisexuality with like River or Sitt or anything like that? I don't think so. In fact, this episode is a very neon episode because you get the whole Shake Shack, green neon sequence. And then Diana, when she's back at the park, by herself. There's a lot of like blue neon lights around the park. And everything happening at Nova Bowl is in this palette.

Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, Nova Bowl is, but then you get the green and then you get the blue. So I think this is just a very like neon in general episode. So I'm not reading anything. But I did see people respond to the images from this episode on Twitter. Yes, I still occasionally go on there where they were like, River and Zid in the bisexual lighting. What are we doing? So we just thought we would just take this moment to appreciate bisexual lighting. I mean, we also get a moment of co-in bisexual lighting. lighting and frankly, we'll never know, sadly. You will never know. All right.

That has been bisexual lighting and a preview of our eulogy for our Guy Co. What a real one. Shall we return to a more London palette for our lighting? Would you like to do the clap thing again? No, I think that was rude, probably in retrospect. But Jacob's got our back. So let's shift, let's get back to normal. You know, let's shift back to our normal lighting.

Jacob, if you would. Okay. See, now I feel washed out. That's horrible. Now it feels so wrong. Let's just like live life in bisexual lighting. It's a much better place to be. It's quite gentle.

All right. Episode 4, lost and found over halfway down with the season. Let's take a moment. Rob, what's the interconnecting plot as you understand it of this episode? I mean, I think we're starting to put it all together. And I did find it very helpful for Oliver Nash to swing through and be like, so if you're a little behind. Yeah. Let me catch you up on exactly what's happening.

Okay. There was an attack by Russian operatives against British citizens on British. oil. With the nerve agent. Which we got in, like, reference to in episode one. Exactly. Teased out, but I believe we'd never seen on screen or really heard alluded to before this series.

Is that correct? I think so. Okay. And then Tavernor sent, I mean, pretty clearly, Sid Baker or, air quote, Sid Baker, however you want to view it at this point in the story. Two, Kazan killed one of the GRU agents responsible for set attack. Retaliation. Retaliation, which she let slip on national TV.

Not a good movie. Here's the thing. Don't do the retaliations. and then don't accidentally slip the retaliations. But it sounds like Damien and his crew knew to plant that question because she used the money that came from the Russians via Damian, via Judd, to fund this off the book's mission because Oliver's like, you didn't have the money to do this.

And then she's like, well, then I couldn't have done it. But this is what she used the money for, which is why she's so scared. And why Damien and Jud could intimidate her into the television interview. but while she was on said interview, they could say, hey, what about retaliation? Wink, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. So Vasili, who is this Russian individual on the phone,

is demanding Sid Baker and safe passage for his agents, which I have to assume are Jim and Jane. I mean, demanding it for starters. As we see with everything with Tavernor right now, it was naive for anyone to ever believe it was going to be one thing. So do you think the slow horses, so Frank Harkness is there to do cleanup on Naismith.

Yes. And that whole aspect. Which was to get the list of slow horses that it seems is facilitating this mission, but like maybe he's only tenuously connected. Well, so the question we've been asking this whole time is like, why are they killing the slow horses? Right. Willy nilly without interrogating them, without finding it what they know. So there's just sort of like, and it seems like it's a squeeze where it's just sort of like, we will randomly kill slow horses until you give us Sid Baker.

Sid Baker. Yeah. And so that makes more sense to me in terms of we were like, why Strew and Loy, why, you know, K. White, why these people, like, what could they all possibly know? Yeah. And that has nothing to do with it. It's just the fact that they're from Slow House. And so did Diana delete the digital file in order to try to hide them and protect them? It seems maybe so.

Okay. We should also say this framing that we're offering right now that the show offers pretty directly, I would say is a pretty strict refutation of the idea that there is a tracker in Sid's head. Because when Jim and Jane show up, as Sid says, to kill her at River's Grandfather's House, we know that they had talked about River in a previous episode. They show up at River's Grandfather's house. They are as surprised to see her as anyone. So it's clear they were not tracking her to David Cartwright's house.

They just happened to find her there. They happen to find her there and now are like, I mean, the windfall of the century is you have the assassin that you were hoping to squeeze out right here in the open. Well, and I think, you know, she talks about how they came after her previously. So I wonder if they started with Sid. Yeah. Sid disappears. And so they're like, okay, we'll just kill how many slow horses we can find until you give us Sid or we ferret her out or whatever the case may be. So then Lamb's involved, obviously, because his Joe's are being targeted.

And I think that's all of our players, you know. and Emma is drawn into the action inside of this episode. Moira was obviously targeted, so she's drawn in. Louisa is in danger, so she's drawn in. And I think that's everyone. I think the only other character to introduce that this episode introduces is this woman Natasha. Okay. A hot Russian agent and her name is Natasha.

I mean, they didn't call her by name as Natasha. No, the closed captioning. It showed up in the closed captioning. I was just like, do you have no shame? I was, it's tough. So I guess if you're doing the org chart at home, yes. Vasili gets Natasha, who I don't know if they're, like, she works for him in some capacity.

Yeah, but we don't know. Reports to him in some capacity. Maybe she is squeezed in the way that other people in this plotter squeeze. We don't know. She is kind of Damien's runner, or running Damien, I should say, who hires Frank, who then is outsourcing henchman to help bring in Reese to tie up that particular loose. Right. But Frank is not involved in the gym and gym.

Jane assassination plot because when Jackson's asking about it and he's like, oh, people are killing your horses. Anyone I know? Something, you know, my grandson perhaps. Yes, all of that is true and what Damien says he wants is that contract, whatever exactly that means we don't know. But that's, those

are the stakes for him. He's like, it was a very like, Harry Lloyd as Vassaris, I want the, I want the throne, it's mine. Like, I want that contract, like a very tantrumy like little spoiled boy. moment from him. But a very different

dynamic between I want to be king versus I want to like cuck me harder almost. You know, it's like it's a slightly different energy from him. Cuck me mother Russia. I mean, when you're saying like show me the hoops to jump through I wouldn't say that's kingly exactly. But I'm like

will the contract bring him untold riches? What, what? Doesn't he already have all the money in the world? What could I think he just wants a GRU advertising deal. He's like, you know what? Let's fill his commercial space. Okay. So I think we did it. I think those are all the players. Let's start at the bowling alley. Well, we missed one player. This guy working at the bowling alley. I would say he asks more clarifying questions

than anyone else who's in the services in the show. Than Diana Tavern. He certainly has the season. He comes in strong with a Macbeth reference. No man born of his mother. Like great stuff. Dies pretty soon thereafter. And we should say we should go back to last week's episode. We were wondering if Anne was okay and a bunch of our listeners were like, well, like, did you notice that Jim and Jane are now driving her car? We don't think Anne is okay. And I will say the quickness with which Jane dispatched the bowling alley employee means that I don't think Anne will be tasting any more fraybentos buys. It's over for Anne. Curtin's for Ann. That part could be better for her in terms of the Freybentos. I guess we'll find out. Tune in. I'm, I mean, look, I choose to believe in

my heart of hearts. Ann's okay. That she's okay. Maybe that's just me telling myself that they sent her to a farm upstate, but... Oh, she's frolicking. I want to believe it. She's scampering. What can hope? Do you have any takes on take on me? The aha song that plays the beer this episode? I think there's only one take that can be had, which is it fucking rules and works every time. I sang this song in my Acapella group in college. Wow.

Really cool story to tell you on my phone. What's your range? Where are you? Oh, I was a soprano at the time. And I just want to share some of the lyrics from Take On Me that are my favorite. Today is not my day to find you, shying away. I'll be coming for your love okay. Yeah. This is not written by native English speakers

or say after me it's no better to be safe than sorry. I just think that this is one of the best pop songs ever written and when you marinate in the lyrics

for a second you go what's happening here? I would argue that's why it's one of the greatest pop songs ever written. All vibes and like again it's not better to be safe than sorry is a perfect example.

It just needs like... It's no better. It's no better to be safe than sorry. It just needs to sound vaguely poetic and interesting and your brain locks it into a box and says, oh, that's what a line. And it works. All time iconic music video too. Okay.

You flagged this last week. The ease with which Sid lies and Rivers a little perturbed by it. Yeah. Like an agent, like a secret agent. Okay. So everybody's making good points here between the two of them, I would say. River, at least noticing that Sid lies a lot. Does he notice by the end of this episode how much she's lying?

Clearly not. I would say, so this episode is in time. is titled what, Lost and Found. I would say alternate title, River is slow on the uptake. It's just brutal for our guy at every step. Is the slowest moment of the uptake? Well, he lingers around Coe's body, and I think he should because this is a guy that he spent a lot of time with it, especially in that one season. They'll always have that season, though.

But for him to then be like, oh, is Sid okay? I was like, Faster River, let's go. Let's go find season. too late. Just casually walking around with eating a sandwich, trying to, well, hey,

where's, what's everybody doing? Has there, like, Coe has disappeared from the arcade game, but where is everybody? I think,

well, I actually want to give whoever some credit because, like, he notices Coe is missing and he bothers to, like, do something. You know what I mean?

It's like, he has eyes on Co. I mean, this is bare minimum stuff. If, you are on the run and there are assassins after you.

Why are you dispersing across the mall? Well, that's, that's a group question. Why are we, why are we divvying up at all. It's true. Look, we're going to get to all that stuff. Okay. In this moment, though, I do think this is one of my favorite, it's my favorite performance

moment of this entire episode is Jack Loudon watching Sid lie her ass off about her, her poor, poor brother. His face is so good. I mean, you just get a lot of squinting, a lot of incredulity. There's like some unenthusiastic yes-ending by the end of it. The comforting her. And I would describe his other facial expressions here as like a guy trying hard to do math. but trying to make it clear that he's not doing math in his head. Sorry, maths in his head. Great, thanks. Would you put his face on that gif of the woman with all the equations?

That's basically it. If someone was to superimposed some equations over Jack Loudon here, it would not go amiss. I want to shout out the co-performance in this moment because when, you know, the car gets lit up by Jim. And co-just like, he's just so unflappable in all ways. But inside this episode, like the car, you know, two times in this episode, he's in a car that's getting shot at and he just has like, he moves with quickness. Yes. Grabbs the keys, goes. Later, when they're once again being shot out, he sort of like dodges the bullet with a quickness.

But does not, and it's not driving very well. Rivers like, can we just go please? But unflopable or like the really weird way he's running through the laundry room. I love it. I just think, you know, this is his last episode. He's going to be missed. I think we should not only shout him out. To me, the rolling out of the car and the near death by Mint

is the best spy craft of this episode. I think the way in which, look, if that's river in the car, he's like battening down the hatches, like trying to find some kind of weapon to defend himself. Co-understands, you got to get the hell out of there. And does it in a way where he is now running circles around Jim as they're going around the bowling alley. Almost gets the drop on him.

Yes. Except Jane shows up to save Jim's ass. Worst use of spycraft, perhaps, River wrestling the bowling pin away from Sid so loudly that it draws fire from Jane. Really bad. I mean, Sid will, like, dress him down for this later, but this is like a really bad look for our guy. Yes. I think there's, I mean, she, Sid has him dead to rights about this whole thing. And I think there's a bunch of things happening.

Part of what makes this episode really saying is trying to understand where both Sid and River are coming from. As they are pulling apart, coming together, like. Looking at each other longingly over various cues. As one is odd to do about your, you know, your spy crush of a past life. Yeah. But I think for River especially, some of that of him trying to wrestle the bowling pin away from Sid when he sees her, like, maybe have a moment of trepidation or just like physical shaking in response to this moment is River being River. This is shit he always does. That part is baked in.

I think there's also clearly the guilt about her getting shot in the first place and the lingering effects that may have had on her life, undoubtedly have had on her life. I think there's also him wanting her to think he is cool and good at his job and wanting to like defend her. And then by extension, just like whatever unresolved feelings he clearly has her. Like the blind spot that River has for Sid is just so prominent all throughout this episode. That's very true. But also just like River is just constantly incompetent. But the incompetence comes with sort of like moon eye, moon calf eyes in this particular flavor. he is like simultaneously bleeding out like the blood from his hand is making him trying to wrestle the bowling pin out of her hands a slippery affair.

Yeah. So for her to later call him arrogant and bulldozing, she is right. Absolutely. But then I love that. I mean, I really love their dynamic. Of course. She says all of that to him. And then she goes and buys him a novelty license plate with his name on it.

This is a really key moment. And you can't understand this as a rob. Because as a Rob, your whole life, your name has been on those novelty plates. As a Joanna, that is not the case. And I bet it's never the case for a river. So to find a little novelty license plate with River's name on it, since like I have no choice. I have to get it. Well, this is where I think really the entire mystery came together for me.

Because as soon as she sees the novelty license plate that says River, I'm like, this is a Mission Impossible style set up. Like, this mall doesn't exist. This is a fabricated facility by the GRU, and that's how Jim and Jay noted that they're here because it's all under camera. There is no universe in which that river license plate exists. I agree with you.

It just does not happen. So, I like, I appreciate the gesture. Clearly, they have this very special relationship. And I love seeing, as this episode progresses, SIDS version of this same, like, in her head dynamic, where you get a lot of far-off glances, you get a lot of, like, bubbling anxiety from her. Like, clearly she is feeling away about...

her actions, it seems, putting River and the other slow horses in danger, leading to this chain of events. Like, I would be shocked if she, that character, Olivia Cook is playing Sid as if she feels somewhat responsible for what's happening. So do you think, so where would you place your bets then? Okay. So what you're alluding to is like, do you think it was Sid Baker or Sid Baker who pull this assassination?

I think it's, it feels very clear to me that it is actual Sid Baker. Okay. And I would say by extension of that, we can talk about this later in the episode. But for me, the worst spycraft in this episode is Sid not understanding that she's been burnt. And by Tavernor specifically. Yeah. River gets to be right about something where he was like, please stop trying to call Diana Tavernor. And she's like, no, I will. She came and checked on me like I have loyalty to her.

And then for Diana to say, trace the call and then drop it. And Sid not understand what that means and to keep calling and put herself in this vulnerable position where she gets nabbed by Jim and Jane at the end of the episode. It is interesting to me, you know, Vasily on the phone, like, he wants Sid Baker. He doesn't want to shoot her in a car outside of this rest stop services station. No. They want her on a plane or something because, like, they don't kill Sid. They grab Sid. And I think that's interesting.

But I think the torture, for what? I guess, yeah, because what information, like, I don't know what the leverage play is there exactly? Or maybe just to get more out of MI5, more recompense for everything that happens. But I just really enjoyed the running Sid River stuff all throughout this episode and really this idea of River looking at her and not understanding that lying is part of their job. And by extension, River wanting to be an action hero and Sid being like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, you can just run. You can let me handle this part. It's like I think the ways in which he is bulldoged and just kind of trying to run through every wall to me is the river experience all throughout this show.

but seeing him work alongside a spy who was acting a little more like a spy was very refreshing. Let's talk about, I mean, let's just do all this in river stuff. Sure. Why not? Let's talk about Jim and Jane and the car outside the services station when they start speaking Russian to each other. And they have this very like tender moment. He says it's always, it's always just us, right? And then she sort of like tenderly like touches his wound on the back of his head.

The Americans has never left us. I love this. It's really good. I love this. and I love this. Like, there's a couple things inside of this episode. There's this. And there's also, like, the henchmen that Frank hires.

Like, if you just hire some random hensches for the back half of a season of slow horses, you could do any number of things. But for one of them to be so nervous and excited to meet Frank Harkness that he gets, like, diarrhea and has to, like, show up late. And he's so anxious. He's, like, he's fan-boying over Frank Harkness. Like, you've, you've, uh, humanized these, like, random hensches that we meet halfway through a season.

And if they make it through the season, I'll be very surprised, you know, and then like, or maybe they'll be like new main characters on slow horses. They're going to be a whole spinoff unto themselves. But Jim and James, similarly, to give them this sort of like, bizarreo sit in river parallel in the car outside is just like, you know, and to talk about your favorite thing to talk about English food, I'll buy you a pork pie when this is all over. It's kind of alarming when you hear it all, just listed out in rapid succession, the pork pie,

steak bake, the steak bake, the sausage drill, like, how much a British British cuisine is just... Pastery meat. Paster. Like, just literally meat wrapped in pastry. And it's like, we got to do better, you know? And by better, I mean, you can't just mush your vegetables into paste. Like, you got to have real food.

But mushy peas are a whole thing. They are a thing. That is true. I promise I'm not defending mushy peas. I never would. It's very complicated. But to your larger point, I love this scene. I love this.

I love this moment. It's something that we don't get, I think, often enough out of Slow Horse's villains. and especially like mid-level villains, right? These are not big bads. They're just kind of pursuing assassins. Villain of the season, we must assume. Exactly. And we'll get like, yes, moments where they get to be fun or conniving or like trade banter with, you know, our leads or whatever. But getting a moment of real sensitivity and that sort of like external life beyond the plot, the show doesn't often have time for that.

And so even making one moment for it is very welcome. Have you ever seen the... I don't know about that. I think, I mean, Jim and Jane aren't like the main, main villains in this episode of this season, but they kind of, I don't know. I feel like something Slow Horses has done with the sleeper agent in the previous season or with Roddy Ho's girlfriend. Yeah. Like, I do feel like they find a way to make these villains sort of interesting and complex and have some sort of emotional interiority, you know? Yeah, it's less the emotional interiority and more they're usually kind of on an island or they're in an organization where they're, they are being made vulnerable like Roddy's girlfriend.

It's like they're kind of being hung out to dry in a way. Or like in the, the kidnappers in the first season, there was like one guy who was just sort of like, this is not right, what's happening here. And he was right. There's always dissent to the ranks, honestly, it seems like. Of the Nazis? So, yeah. And then, do you want to talk about our guy at Co?

Always. What are you for Co? I mean. Just tremendous work from you. Let's just, I've thought about bringing. in the ear buds too, but I was just sort of like, let's leave and be. This is a sad, horrible death. This is a real full circle moment for Coe.

If you'll recall, we met him in his first introduction, when Roddy was handcuffed up in the office and he wanted to unhandcuff him. And Charlie's like, let him stay. You know, it's funny. And then he tells a story about how he was handcuffed. and tortured and someone was like threatening to disembowel him with like a carving knife. And so the fact that he dies disemboweled, this is a very pointed thing in the book that like he has this trauma. His PTSD, the reason he wears the headphones all the time is stuff like that is PTSD from being tortured and threatened with disembowelment.

And so the fact that he dies disemboweled is this like very sharp thing that that McHeron does inside of this story. But I love this this interaction that they, that he and Jim having the in the bathroom before their fight, similar to, spoiler my favorites in the episode, which is Frank and Jackson at the Shake Shack. This sort of like, we're not so different you and I, you know, like game recognized game sort of moment push knife. Like the smile, the sort of like, oh, your pension must be good. Like that sort of interaction before this incredibly brutal fight between Tom Brooks and Kyle Zulner. I just thought was really, really good.

I think setting it up, kind of foregrounding us with those earlier co-moments and earlier seasons where it's like, when the shit hits the fan, he is maybe the one slow horse you could really count on to respond with appropriate violence, frankly, like, who is like so formidable and so dangerous and can be so surprising that it's like, I kind of just half expected him to survive. Like, I really thought maybe this is how Jim gets taken off the board. Maybe Jane gets chased into a corner as a result of this. Well, he put his knife in his heart, it seems like. You would think that's enough, but apparently not. Wow. I mean, shout out, Jim, I guess. I just want to shout out some of my favorite co-moments in the history of the show. The paint can incident, top tier, if you don't recall, as Coe is climbing down from a fire escape in this sort of like Rube Goldbergian incident, a paint can kills the far right candidate for London mayor.

Yes. And when he lands, River's like, what did you just do? And he's like, climbed down a ladder. What did you just do? It's a fair question. This guy is dead. Talking Shirley down when Marcus dies. Huge.

I mean, like really, really great. Using Rivers left over money from buying him clothing to buy himself some cherries and then just eat them in the car and then ask for the bag with the clothes in it so he can spit the pits into that. Really good stuff. Telling River about himself, telling Shirley about herself, telling it, like psychoanalyzing everyone, incredible. Figure out the plan, the plot last season when he was like, this is the playbook. This is what we do when we want to destabilize the country. what we do. He solved it in like episode two. But my favorite is

when Catherine tells him to stop listening to music and he's like, it's a podcast. She's like, you can't listen music and he's like, it's a podcast. Then she says it one more time and then she leaves and he's all alone in the room and he just goes, it's a podcast. I almost clipped it. It might, it should be like maybe our official audio of the show. Yeah, it's a podcast.

Co is one of our people, you know? I'm really going to miss him. I think the combination, as you said, of the humor, like how off be he is, like, clearly does not know how to connect with other human beings anymore. And yet is the most emotionally available slow horse somehow is just, like, such a unique combination. I don't know that I've ever fully seen a character like him.

Like, clearly there are outsidery, silent types who chime in and, like, lots of shows, lots of movies. But I think the insight and the, like, very precise way with which they deploy him on slow horses is something that's really hard to replicate. And so as you're thinking about what is the future of this group, like, how are they going to create a new dynamic without him. Like, he is a powerful counterbalancing force to have taken off the board. Is Shirley going to be okay?

No. Shirley previous this episode was like, I like him, you know, when he was like, she's like, why does he go alone? And Lam's like, nobody likes him. And she goes, I like him. And she already lost Marcus. Like, give Shirley some stability. So the closest thing Coe has had to a friend is Shirley.

I would say maybe beyond that, you know, look, we all die alone. But he got to die with maybe his closest. confident in the world, which is the push knife. So if you're going to hold on to one thing in the end. And the, he's got it all. I don't think he was listening to music when they were fighting. So do you think he put the music on as he was dying? Or do you think Jim put the music on for him? That's sad to think about that Jim would cue something up. What do you like post murder playlist? That's rude. Can I redo this, the section of the book? Please. The section, you don't see co die in the book, but you are with River when he finds Co. Okay. Let me let me ask you about that out of the gate. Would you have preferred that?

Would you have preferred we don't see Co-die, but we see the lead-up in the aftermath? Or do you like having the fight scene? Well, we kind of get that because, you know, we see Jim, like, sort of stab him in the gut, but we don't know, no, know that he's dead until River finds him. We do get quite a bit of shattering urinal. And, I mean, it's just gross and grimy in there. Where was Henry Cavill reloading his arms? You know, many people are wondering.

Okay. This is the passage from Joe Country. He, meaning River, he sat next to Coe and neither spoke for a long while until River at last said, okay, then said it again, breathing it out slowly, making it a paragraph. Okay. Then he closed J.K. Coe's sightless eyes with his palm. From a distance, Coe had looked peaceful as if he were taking a rest after combat. His hands folded across his stomach.

Up close, he had clearly been holding his stomach in, which is how it's depicted on the show as well. The knife, the other man's knife, River Guest, lay on the ground beside him, staining the snow. And if an expert might have been able to choreograph the moments preceding this table, it was enough for River to know that Coe had won the battle, which is not, it's a different character in the book, so it's not the same thing. Having made his way to this tree once the fighting was done, though even a partisan view would have to admit that long term, you'd have to call it a draw. So this is McHarran where he's like, here's this terribly poignant moment where River finds Co. And he's like, I'll put a joke in here anyway, because that's what I do. But I just, I mean, beautifully written. Of course.

I'm going to miss him. I'm going to miss him. I'm going to miss him. And then River gets to run, which is his favorite thing today. It is certainly his favorite thing. I mean, let me ask this about clearly in terms of the construction and the way that co-died in the novel, as you alluded to, him being gutted is a part of his. That's what I mean, this like, the whirl circle moment.

The poignancy of his end. With Jim and Jane, they've been walking around shooting people the whole time. Is there any particular reason he doesn't walk in with a gun? He might have had a gun. And just chose to make this a knife fight? Yeah, when he was like push knife, like sort of this like, I'll meet you where you are. Maybe it's that simple. You know what I mean?

Like you've got that. I've got this knife. Let's have a knife fight. I do love not only the game recognized game part of that, but like just the straight up honesty of like so who do you work for. Yeah. And it's just like, let's just put it all out there. Like there's no use in hiding something. He's like, I'm going to tell you because one of us is not leaving this bathroom life.

It's true. Let me go back. I did forget one of my favorite co-moments, which is like kind of when the push knife was first, not first introduced, but really like named. I think you and I had a moment where like push knife, this is a thing. We didn't know. Is this when they go up to the old lady's door? They're at the door and River's like, do you have one for me? And he's like, no. He's like, well, what, what am I going to do? And he's like, decoy. Great co-momom. Honestly, it's what they're both best at. River, distracting, sometimes running. Co-stabbing people. And unfortunately, today, being stabbed. Joe, I want to start back to one earlier thing. at, I guess the bowling alley ball, also by extension, the arcade at the off-road mall. Yeah. Services. At the services. Look, I'm very confused about everything that's happening here.

There's one real video game in this mix. Okay. I don't know if you're familiar with the game series Cruzen. Most famously here as Cruising USA. Should we bring the bisexual lighting back on? I didn't intend to, but it does court it, you know? So there is an iteration of cruising, which is like the driving game that certainly is that the bowling alley, I think Coe is also playing later in the episode when he is on the virtual road. Every other game is like extremely fake.

And I would think it's a licensing thing where they have to license the games? I'm sure. But they like was cruising just dirt cheap? Like what happened? They were like, well, it's Coe's last stand. Let's give him a real video game to play. We're not going to make him do Kirkland brand cruising, you know? Let's give him the real deal.

Just driving. But I would like to. It's just called driving. two questions for you. I'm going to give you a list of these extremely fake games and I want to know which one you would play but also like, look, I would love to know you find yourself in an arcade. What is your general zone? What are you gravitating towards?

That's a great, well, I mean, like, the driving games are really fun. That's where you would go. Just sit in a little, like, coop and drive? Absolutely. Yeah. But you're not picking up like a little fake machine gun. You're not, you know? I don't like guns. No? No pinball for you? I could see you being a pinball person for sure. So these are the games that are available in the arcade. If it's like, if we're not just talking, like, if it's like general ski ball is my actual answer.

I don't know if that like counts in what you're asking. Absolutely counts. But ski ball 100%. I'm very good at it. Look, I think we're going to need to put that to the test someday for content. But these are the games that are available. Well, also that. But I want the people to partake, you know.

I don't want to be selfish about it. Mystic Mushroom Mayhem. Demon Dragons 2. Dance Magics, which is like a DDR. style game. Are you a DDR guy? I certainly was. I would like to believe if I hopped out there. He just kind of R. Scott Pilgrim. Would you say? I mean, that's very rude

to say. It's one of the weirdest things you've ever said to me. Turbo Rally. And then there's just a game called Box. And... I really don't know what it is. Like it's sort of Minecraftian and like let's build things? Unclear. Okay. So do like the mystery of box? Like what would you play out of this group?

A mystic mushroom mayhem, obviously. But what even is that? Something drug-fueled. And I think I would like to play. I think there's, we're going to have to, someone needs to design first mystic mushroom mayhem, and then we will gladly play. This is like an Alice in Wonderland themed kind of thing. Could be. Did we do it?

I think so. We can move on to the other plot lines. I want to D-Huddy then. Okay, let's talk about Frank and then how he intersects with, with Flight and Ronnie and Reese and all of that. Sure. So, uh, I just want to shout out Frank and the lady from Reese's home. Really incredible interaction. Really good.

A brief incredible interaction. We get to see the, the Frank Harkness charm. I guess. You guess. This was almost my pick for, like, Britishism, like most English sort of moment. When she says, it was a filthy bugger and all,

looked like he just crawled out of a skip. He was a filthy bugger and all looked like he just crawled out of a skip. Is very... That is my exact nominee. Specifically, look, my introduction to the word skip, I just, I'd love getting to Google things all the time with this show. You love a skip dive?

I don't love a skip dive, but evocative way to describe Jackson. I loved the sequence. Then I love this is how he learns that Jackson Lamb is in the mix here and how that changes the calculus of what's happening for Frank Parkness. Because again, leading up to showdown at the Shake Shack, which is my favorite, one of my favorite scenes of all time in slow horses. This sort of respect and I need to sort of like approach this differently attitude from Frank when he finds out that Jackson is involved. I got to hench up. Yeah.

I need guys. Yeah, I need backup. We got to figure this out. everything about Frank's trajectory, his body language, the way he's communicating with Damien. I mean, they're going to need a bigger boat. Everything has shifted under his feet. And then you get these two fucking titans at the table together

over, you know, a half-eaten burger and whatnot. And the regs of a shake. Of course, great branding opportunities on this show. I don't know what Shake Shack paid to be this spot. But it's like every season, Jackson Lamb will disgustingly eat some food of some kind. it could be your food, you know, your brand. What should he slurp next?

The Shake Shack in Camden, like, should people make pilgrimages there? I think they should. I'm going to London soon. Maybe I'll go to the Shake Shack in Camden. I don't really want to go to Shakeshack. I recently visited in Austin, there's a very famous location of Chili's. The Chili's on, I believe it's North Lamar. Because of Friday Night Lights?

No. I think it honestly started as a bit. Didn't they always go to Chili's on Friday Night Lights? I mean, they should have if they didn't. Yeah, I think they did. Yeah. I will defend it to the death as a chain restaurant. But it became a bit, basically, as when people would post like, oh, what a restaurant

recommendations for Austin. Everyone would recommend this particular Chili's just to, like, why not? And so it has taken on a life of its own. I have to say after visiting, lived up to the incredible hype. Just what a terrific establishment. It's really funny because the only shake shack I've ever been to is the one on South Lamar and Austin because it's right by the draft house right there. Yeah.

And sort of like looking for a bite and you don't want draft house food. you can just go to the Shake Shack. Which increasingly, I don't. Okay. Before we go to the Shake Shack, again, an iconic location, should we talk about Flight and Roddy and Reese and Lamb and this unholy delightful combination inside of their apartment? I already kind of want to take back giving Jack Loud and his flowers for the best performance

of this episode because Chris Chung's eyebrow acting is pure to none. It's really good. But also, I just like, this is the most I've enjoyed Flight, I think. Ruth Bradley just sort of like her go the fuck away her exasperation but also her like tenderness around Reese and trying to like

oh I wouldn't say I hated your dad or whatever I think it was the double like lamb like I thought better of you than this plus Reese puppy dog eyes as he segways out of frame I think I think this is the closest to a lamb shank we get in this is actually I think

a fairly shank light episode quite so I think I thought better of you is the closest we get to a shank, right? I wrote down, and again, it's not a true shank, but to your point, it's really not a lot of them this episode. You were right about Struin-Loy, it turns out, his barbecueing was non-consensual. Very good. Maybe not a shank, but it is barbecued meat. So it's of the genre. I love the non-consensual. Very funny.

Emma, the fact that she was interrupted watching the news about Diana, and I hope in a sort of shot-in-front kind of way, I hope she was enjoying that. But no. Like, I just, look, I want to give this people. of unsolicited advice to Emma or to anyone who's been fired who's been fired because their boss was clearly covering up a multinational conspiracy. Yeah. Don't go home and watch the news. Okay.

Go out. Go out to the bisexual lighting clubs. That's a great start. Yeah, let loose. I think Emma would have a great time. Also, like, I don't know, bakeoffs right there. There's a million chat shows you can watch. Go play some ski ball.

You could win a giant teddy bear. Anything other than watching coverage of your boss slash the job you used to have. All things proceed is. they do. Reese, you know, slips away somehow. Roddy and I have like an incredible conversation about his bathroom adventures. And then we wind up at the Shake Shack. Again, I think the neon green lighting is quite beautiful. Like, aesthetically, this is a beautiful scene.

You're saying the interior of Shake Shack, the restaurant is in fact beautiful. I think not usually. I think the way that this was, I think you can, if you're a true artiste, like Emmy winning director, Adam Rindle, you can make anything look like. You know what? You're not wrong. And then you've got these Titans. You've got Gary Oldman and Hucal weaving sitting down. Come on. Come on.

We used to run the world you and I, spies like us. And then like a different name of them was that my Bowie period? Like the hand in the dark's not yours anymore. The writing here is really great. The performance, this cat v. cat, sort of like performance across the table here. And then the way the entire equation shifts when Reese shows up. Yeah. From the second Reese shows up.

And this is something I've been like searching for from Jackson Lamb, which is like that he actually cares. And like, you know, this is what Frank accuses him of, right, which is like grump with the heart of gold or whatever he says about him here. Old grouch with the heart of gold. There's always been this idea that like Jackson cares about his joes in one way or another, but like very staunchly covers it. but when Reese, a child in his care, shows up, and he gives him like the old smack on the back of the head. Of course.

But immediately, he's just like, how do I get this kid out of here? And there is a fear inside of Jackson that I don't think I've ever seen him, even if he's experienced it before. I don't feel like we've ever seen Jackson Lamb this much on the back foot as he is for just a few seconds before he lights up that cigarette and just sort of like starts his plan to get them out of there. But and then like the double act of of Reese and Jackson like calling just amping it up, calling him a pito and like all this or something. Like it is tense. It is, I'm not going to say it's like the diner scene from heat, but just sort of like to watch these two guys across the table talk about being like spies across the decades about how the world has changed without them. And then to like pivot into this high stakes. I'm worried about this kid, but the comedy.

And then watching Jackson just do what he does best. and start a fight with some random woman so that he can, like, get out of there. It's just, I just thought this was like everything slow horses can be. Absolutely tremendous. And I know some people I've heard some commentary and some reaction about this series where people thought maybe because they know too much about the production of the show, like, oh, this series feels different or the writing hasn't hit for me. And you're saying series in terms of season, but you're saying it to appease the Brits,

you're saying series. I am, yeah. I'm extending the olive branch, you know? Like, this episode. I'm ready to be seconded, is what I'm saying. No, but, like, I think there have been people. people have been bumping on various dialogue points in the season and feeling like, oh, this isn't quite what I'm used to.

I mean, look, the show's been going through some shifts and some adaptation and all that's fine. This did feel extremely slow horses. And I think some of that is just having actors of this caliber bouncing off of each other writing that is that needy where not like I loved the, I was like, you know, back in the day, I was having you followed. I know, I knew you knew like dick measuring that's happening before. And the way that extends and you're right, you can really see the completely. Pleat shifting Gary Oldman as a performer

when Reese comes into the room and the way that his, as you said, his entire strategy has to change, the timing of it, the goals, the objectives, the lighting of the cigarette, the chain reaction. And I also thought it was kind of a sweet detail that it turned out that Reese shifting the location to the Shake Shack, which, when they were

setting this meet, he was kind of just like calling audibles for the sake of calling audibles. If they'd been in a train station and someone lights a cigarette, I really don't think it's any kind of issue, but you're in a closed restaurant at a Shake Shack and you can waft an amp just so and then antagonize and get your way out of there

as a result of creating this commotion. You don't want, like, Palmeals ruining your experience of Shakeshack. Absolutely not. You certainly don't. But at the beginning of this exchange, I think part of the charge that you're describing that we're feeling is not just Lamb feeling

scared for Reese and for his safety, but also part of that back footing is him earnestly thinking he's going to go into this conversation with Frank and come out with answers because Frank is so heavily involved in what's happening. And for the Frank reveal to be like, I really don't know what you're talking about.

And we buy it and Lamb buys it, you can see his gears start turning in a way that is totally foreign to us. He's like, this is bigger than I thought it was or different than I thought it was. But then he gets his answer, right? Because then he and Roddy and Reese and Emma follow Frank to a second location.

And because Emma is so hot, the hedges can't keep. their tongues despite your objections. No. Emma Flight, as you said on this podcast many times,

Emma Flight, not hot enough. And here she is, turning heads. I can't believe you would do this to me when we talked about this off a lot.

At the end of last episode, you're like, Joanna, you went so so out of your way to make sure I really knew

you thought this one was so beautiful. And then you call me out on microphone. I'm sorry. I don't know what to tell you. Well, like,

what we were talking about last week is I was like, beautiful, but not the kind of like, wolf whistle. if you were a cartoon, you're talking to be rolling.

But then that's literally what the henchmen do in this episode. They awo-da her. They awuga her. Yeah. They have her, you know, covering up for at leisure. Yeah. It's the whole, it's the plot of this episode. Yeah.

But she uses that to find out that Frank is working for Damien. Yeah. So they've connected that. That's exactly what Jackson was trying, the information she was trying to get. He got it. So on to the next thing. And not only does she use it, but I think the moment where Emma clocks it of like, oh, I have this kind of attention.

Yeah. How do I use it to my advantage? How can I kind of manipulate the situation? That's good Spicraft in a way that she hasn't been empowered to do a lot on this show. I want to wrap it up with Damien to say it's not my favorite scene of the episode, as I've already mentioned. It's definitely the showdown of the Shake Shack. But I do think Damien coming to Diana's door talking to her, like talking to her through the video. Like all of that was great because Harry Lloyd is great and Kristen Scott Thomas is, of course, great and all that sort of stuff like that.

And his sort of like flirty sort of whatever creepy thing. but the combination of him on the video and then you can see his hand like down the hall at the window I thought that was such so well-framed horror movie moment I absolutely loved it especially in the context of what this scene is

right? Like all he's there to do is to tell her to pick up the phone there's a million ways to do that right but having him be so close he can reach out and touch like her home her place like her safety is part of why she picks up the phone It's part of why he's coming off of his own call with Reese being like kind of rattled and annoyed and frustrated and a little bit scared that their plane is blown up.

Wrong number. But then he gets to turn all that off because he is in a position of power with Diana. And so he gets to swagger about and make his little jokes. And it's like you completely understand why his comportment shifts and also like why it is so menacing just for him to be there. And I'm really excited for I hope Diana or someone to get the better. I mean like if I had to place bets on who's going to get to. the better of Damien in this season. Actually, it might be Frank, right?

Because he's kissing Frank off. Frank's like, fuck you, you know, when he hangs up the phone on him. So, like, if I had to guess who might get Damien before this season is done, I might guess Frank. Well, especially because Frank, I think we're starting to unpack this a little bit with his reputation, as you talked about, with the hench community. But he's kind of lost the thing that made him special. Right. Like, he had a militia of child spies he reared into adulthood who he could deploy at his whims, they're all gone, right?

Like, now he's just a general contractor. And it's like, he's come down the world. You solve these problems. You hire people to solve these problems. Like, we're handing this to you so we don't have to do it. Like, at some point, I think the frustrations of bumping against that are going to boil over, whether at Damien or someone else. I also love that he, like, you know, when he was rearing his child army in the sort of like

countryside of France. As one does. And then he was like, in the shake shack. He's like, here we are in the middle of fucking nowhere. I was like, you're in Campton in London. Captain rules. You can get cheese fries here. How middle of nowhere could it be?

Anything you want to say about Diana, either with her encounter with Damien, with Oliver, with Vasili inside of this episode. I mean, she's just so screwed. Like, the walls are really closing in on her. And, I mean, predictably in slow horses terms, the only way out is kind of through lamb

and the slow horses at a point. But even understanding that and, like, why they would be willing to reconcile, like, she's put everyone in so much, danger by going off book in the way that she did. I'm really glad that when we were kind of going through the plot up top, you highlighted the specific line of the money and how it was making her feel squeezed because that was something we talked about earlier in the season about like if she didn't know where the money came from,

if she didn't know its provenance, would it be that big a deal other than optics? But it's like, no, this is very deliberately off book in a way that she took a risk for kind of no reason, it seems like. Feeling, feeling herself as first death? That's really it. Yeah. Tough. Let's talk about the Girl Power Quartet to close it out.

My actual nomination for, like, most British line uttered. Okay. Yeah. When she claims that she can read the map, which she's wrong about. Duke of Edinburgh Award, which is something I had to look up, plus many happy holidays in the Yorkshire Dales. The Duke of Edinburgh Award, which we don't have here, plus many happy holidays in the Yorkshire Dales is just a very English sentence, I think. so I wanted to celebrate it. Well, how about sub-nominy for most British thing in this episode, of an older woman using girl power and talking to two like fairly millennial-coded women and trying to flex into them being like, absolutely the fuck not? Is that English?

That's just, that's just the world. Well, I think the spice influence here is like very particular. You know, again, it's a different version of the same thing as it is so often across the pond. My lamb shake of the episode actually belongs to Shirley, who says we're all missing the vibrate function in more. That feels like something Jackson Lamb would say. This was such a great Shirley sequence. And really, as soon as the knives start coming out between her and Louisa, I'm like, wait, hold on. This is something I didn't know I needed on this show.

It's really good. Very excited about it. Like, we just need a very, like, yeah, a different kind of animosity when everyone's mad at Roddy Ho or everyone's annoyed with River. Everyone's like, you know, grating under Lamb's lack of leadership for whatever reason. but Shirley and Louisa fighting. I think Shirley brings a very particular spice. The show has been inconsistent in applying, and Louisa is a great recipient for it. Is it like a ginger spice or a posh spice or what was a part?

You know what I walked into that one? It's certainly not baby, that's for sure. I think she's a little sporty, that's what I would say. They wind up at Diana Tavener's seaside home. So Jackson Lamb has somehow stolen Diana's keys, giving them to Catherine, and said, this is the safe house. So we mentioned this early in the season how, like, him saying who wants to be, like,

hold the keys to give Catherine, like, purpose to not drink or something like that. Yeah. But the fact that there's another layer of that of, like, these are keys I stole from Diana Tavener and we're going to go to her seaside cottage. Shout out this residence. It's beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. Very sea ranch. Oh, yes.

Very much so. I think the shot from out on the water of all of the women and wandering in the various rooms, gorgeous stuff. I love this. Here's a question. As they're checking the rooms. Moira's getting some relief from the long road trip. Catherine, of course, finds the wine closet. Quite impressive.

How many pillows is too many pillows on a bed? Let me tell you, five is too many. And that's how many Diana Tavernor has on this bed. What if I told you? Joe. I currently have six. Wait, okay, so hold on. She has five rows of pillow.

Oh, five rows. So I guess technically like ten pillows. Oh, no, no, no. Ten's too big. Okay, I thought you were saying six rows. I mean, six is still too many, but I'm just telling you I have six. Six is a bit. But you know what?

Like, I am my mother's son. I can't pretend she doesn't have four or five pillows on every bed in her home. Are they, like, does your mother enjoy like a lace edge to her pillow or something like that? Yeah. This is not, no frills. I'm not a frill person. I see what you did there. No, I support your mother, but that's a generation.

No, I mean, on the no frills. Oh, no frills, yeah. But, like, there's the grandmotherly, like, sort of, or, you know, and then there's, like, I don't know, aesthetically, it's a different vibe. It is a different vibe. Yeah. I get it. You're not like... Are you, like, for you at home?

This is, like, one pillow only for you at home? I mean, two-layer pillow can be fine. I'm not to be honest. Right now, it's in a very Spartan state. It's more in a one pillow. situation. That's ergonomic. What I don't like is having to discard the pillows on the floor because where else are they going to go and then they go back on your bed.

I kind of like that though. Do you? You're just bringing the ground germs back up to your bed? How dirty is your floor? It's a floor. You know, I have a dog. I'm walking around there. I just don't want it in my pillow area.

Here's the last thing I want to say about this Girl Power Quartet at the Safe House, the Seaside. Is it that you would watch an entire show of just these four. paling around because I would. 100%. We had some comments and listener emails about this. When Catherine dumped her purse out in the previous episode, the wine opener that she procured got, the corkscrew got like a very clear, this is going to come back sort of

shot. So do you feel like that's there just so we can open some of the nice bottles that are in Diana's house here? Or is the corkscrew going in someone's neck before the season's over? Why stop that neck? I think corkscrew in a temple is a classic move for a reason. Oh, or the ear? But would Catherine Standish do that?

Well, it doesn't have to be Catherine who does it necessarily. But isn't it better if she does? It is. I would say one of two things. One, the only person who is in a position to really see it in the car would be Louisa. And so if, yes, now she is in corporate, going on retreats to Bali and whatnot, but still a spy. Maybe she did notice it. Maybe there's a conversation as she would be someone who would know.

Yeah. Catherine's life and status and what's going on and what she's been dealing with. maybe there's just like a character moment there, but there could also be a brutal death. So I kind of hope it ends up being a weapon of choice. And this is something in slow horses all the time, right? Like, how do you turn a group of spies who don't often carry guns into people who can defend themselves? And it often results in this kind of MacGyvering or Jackson Lamb having to light a cigarette to get himself out of a jam.

But one way to do it is with a corkscrew. Cork screw to the temple to the neck. And then I also feel like Diana has so many breakables in that safe house. Because I mean, like, that safe house set is. especially without all the windows, that shot that you called out, that is such a, like, there's going to be some sort of showdown at the safe house.

There's really no doubt. Everyone, well, I don't know where St. and River are going now, but like... Well, I do know where they're going. It's to the safe house. It's just a roundabout way to get there. But everyone's going to converge on the safe house. This is the rendezvous point.

And people will be thrown through some of those windows. I just fully expect it. As you say, a vase. You know, a chotchky of a kind. And things will be hurled. A decorative sort of platter of some kind. I mean, that's a weapon right there. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

You pick it up, you hold it just right, anything can be. You can't splinter. You can't put us that. What a way to go. Anything else you want to say about this episode? I think I'd have another question about the, in the feminism audio, again, they've solved it. They've really gotten to the bottom of it.

Catherine gets so exasperated with everybody and their chat about, like, should we do this plan with the phone? They're bickering amongst each other. She just kind of like turns her phone on and throws it out the window as a means to distract from their location. But didn't she just like throw it on the road to show people where they're going? Yeah. Okay. I just want to be very clear that like they're all like, oh, great job.

We did it. And I'm like, this is on the way that you are driving. This seems like a bad idea. This seems like a breadcrumb that you just dropped rather than like. Look, maybe this is how we all get to the rendezvous point is Catherine gets tracked and the road leads in a particular way. but I want moments and I love moments where Catherine gets to feel and be on top of it. Yeah. And that did not feel like that to me.

Nope. It's a classic little horses moment. All right. I believe we are wrapping up with a segment that I'm calling the Ann Memorial Frey Bento's taste test. We have procured some actual Freibento's. We did. Authentic. Genuine article.

And we're going to taste some right after this. Okay. I didn't say that we were doing this explicitly at the top of the pod, but we have procured. heard some fray bentos. We have. You brought a oven from home. We didn't have one here at the office. Because you have a commitment to the bit. I do. And we are going to be taste testing fray bentos pies, which River had at Anne's house in last week's episode. These are less expired than that one seemed to have been.

Hopefully. Should we grab them? I think we should. We each picked a flavor. What did you pick, Rob? I went with minced beef and onion. Honestly, because I thought the onion might save it. I was steak and kidney because it felt the most traditional. Can I share on the microphone that you thought the kidney and steak and kidney was kidney bean? It's one of the most charming things I've ever reviewed in my entire life. I really thought it might be okay.

Steak and kidney beans. I got to say some of that is just like I am not in an organ meat state of mind. A pie would be more forgiving than most if you're going to do that. Do you eat haggis? Not. It's not for me. Okay. So no organ meat.

Not, I mean, it depends on how you want to define an Oregon, I guess. Too much. Too much Hannibal, do you think? Or not enough? Not enough. I think I need more, more and more. Should we try this? We should. I just want to say, like, when you propose things like this, Joe. Yeah. I am inclined. You are a beloved podcaster and cultural figure, a New York Times bestseller, a cherished friend. I just kind of assume that everything's going to be okay.

I follow you into the dark with a lot of this stuff. Let's be really real. You kicked and screamed about this particular one. You dragged your feet through the gravy. Okay, for the record, you wanted us to order some kind of weird Freibento's pudding situation? That's still coming. It's not here yet. We don't have to eat it. I just wanted to, like, order it.

You just want to know that it's real? I just wanted to order it. I just think this one might take our lives. And so if this is going to be the end, it's been a pleasure serving with you. The deal with Freibentos is they cut. It's like a can, it's a, this had a lid that you had to use my can opener from home to open. It's a, it's a pie with pastry on top. and we're going to try it.

We have made the entire studio office reek. Yeah. You a baker. Yeah. Do you want to comment on the flakiness of this crust? You know, it's the classic in the, oh my God. I just went too many layers deep. Just like a gushing river of like brown gravy just like came into the hollow that I made.

The spirit of like a frozen, like, banquet pot pie. Yeah. The top layer gets actually nice and crispy, like, and nice and puffy. You go one layer deep and it's just straight. It's a straight. Sog City, USA. Or, or Sog City, UK. Oh, my God.

Would you... That's too much. That's too big of light. We got to consolidate here, you know? We got to tone this down. All right. Cheers. All right, Joe.

Well, that's one of the worst textures I've ever experienced in that. Why do people do this to themselves? The taste is not dissimilar from like a Campbell, like any sort of Campbell soup. TV dinner or kind of like that vibe. If you ate a Salisbury steak TV dinner, it might taste something like this. I was really hoping that chunk of meat I had was steak, but I believe it was kidney. Well, you went for it right out of the gate. I did that to myself.

That might be all I need. That was, Joe, that was rough. That was not good. But we are alive. We are. I just wanted to see if I can get a chunk of steak so that I can wash the taste of kidney out of my mouth. I'm inclined to kind of get a close-up of some of this inner crust, which at this point is more goop. It's so goopy.

It's really not great. I have regrets, but here we are. I just don't understand how it is that here at the ringer, like, you're out there. What if it's more kidney? I mean, look, I'm going to be honest with you. That's more kidney than steak in there. So the odds are not in your favor. Okay.

I just know you're out here like cavorting with Dave Chang doing like real foodie shit out here. And then on this podcast, you're like, hey, do you want to eat this disgusting frozen pie with me? And it's, I'm going to note it. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, okay. So how would, what did you get this out of 10? This is horrible. Three?

I think I might go under. Actually, I might, can I try? Look, I'm not going to trade with you, but you are welcome to dig in. I just want something that doesn't taste like kidney. I think you should. I really thought kidney would be fine, but guess what, it's not. Guys, it's really bad. I'm not a fan.

Stake and kidney pie is so traditional. I've just never had it. Yeah. I didn't enjoy it. You want to... I will vamp while you eat. It's just... It's a rough experience even looking at this thing.

That's way better. This is way better? Way better. So you gave yours a three. What do you give the minced beef and onion? Or sorry, beef and minced onion. I would like to ramp this down to a one. Okay.

I'll give that a three. Okay. You're going to go two? I'm going to go, yeah, to 1.5 kind of territory. under no circumstances in which you could not eat this should you eat it. If you have any alternative, I think I would take it. Whatever, let's de-influence Freibentose. If you watch that episode, So Horses and you're like,

that looks like it might be good. It wasn't. Maybe there's a chance that the crust that River kept picking at is, in fact, good. It's not. And I will say, like, I would enjoy, like, a Marie Callender's, like, frozen pot pie. Oh, sure. Absolutely. I think part of... Hot pocket, but this...

And, like, perhaps they were not meant to ship to the United States. But I feel like... It's a can. The hand good is supposed to like, this is supposed to be good in wartime. I feel like you could take this in the battlefront, the trenches and like warm it over a fire or something like that. But it is not good. It's disgusting. Well, we tried to see if we could get some Greg shipped out here.

Like, we were trying to find more palatable alternatives. You can't get Greggs out here. It's messed up. Unless one of our listeners is in the UK and can somehow get us Gregs in a way that would not like expire. That feels illegal. You don't feel like deep freeze it and then get it to us. You want to go to like the Greg's dark web? Not really.

All right. We did it. Thank you so much to you, Rob Mahoney. Joe, thank you. And I would say thank you, maybe not to fraybento themselves, but just the understanding and the awareness that within British cuisine, meat wrapped in pastry is a robust category. It's a whole spectrum of food. Look, beef Wellington, I'm not fuck with the beef Wellington. This is just something that no human being should partake in.

Yeah, there's, I've had many a sort of like a hand pie. sort of situation in the UK that is delicious. It's just not this at all. So if we ordered the seasonal special chicken tika, Freibento's. No, because the worst part is the goopiness of the crust. It really is. That, like, one subcutaneous level of crust is just goop. And that is unacceptable.

I would love to know, we have many listeners from the UK who love slow horses who listen to these pods. Do you have, like, a nostalgic association with Freibentos or this kind of, like, canned pie offering? Who eats Fremantos? Like is this sort of like... Give us the demographic. Pensioners eat Fremantos, that sort of thing.

That was River's suggestion it seemed like, basically. Right, okay. This is an old people food. Yeah, and this is sort of like, maybe you've lost some of your taste buds and you're just sort of like, whatever gets me my iron, I'll do it. You know, and if it's taking kidney in a tin, sure. The thing is like, as far as, you know, most people are either like eat to live or live to eat, right? This is not a food you eat. This is neither.

This will not keep you alive. No, it's neither. Do not eat it. No. Okay, we did it. Thank you so much. Thank you to Devereignaldo, who pulled these out of the oven. Yes.

Thanks to you for bringing in an oven from home. Thank you. Thanks to the United States Postal Service that got these pies here in under 48 hours. Thank you to Jacob Cornett for the bisexual lighting, among other things. Thanks to Kai Grady, who's not technically supposed to be here, but is here nonetheless. Just to gock. Just to be around. Just to see what's going on with these Freibantos.

Thanks to all of our listeners. PressyceeGV at Spotify.com for your Nepo Babies and needle drops and get caught up with a gilded age and arstime the popademal.com if we have messed up something that has to do with UK culture and slow horses. And we will see you for episode five, series six of slow horses. We're almost done. Bye.