The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Slow Horses’ Season 6 Premiere: The Saddest Horse

Episode Date: September 16, 2026

Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney head back to Slough House to recap the ‘Slow Horses’ Season 6 premiere. (0:00) Intro(4:13) Anglophile corner(6:23) James Bond casting news(13:04) Instant reactions(20:38) The best assassin duos(23:20) Best (and worst?) spycraft of the week(24:44) River and his grandfather(28:04) Oliver Nash’s role(31:22) Damien Cantor’s role(43:28) Is Lamb looking out for River?(54:31) Peter Judd is back(59:46) The return of Frank Harkness Email us! [e-mail] or [e-mail] Follow us on IG and TikTok! Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Prestige TV Podcast and so much more! Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob MahoneyProducers: Devon Renaldo and Kai GradyStudio Production: Jacob Cornett Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to by Uber Eats. You can get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Sorry, you can't get a beach delivered, but you can get a peach. A canoe, no. Shampoo, yes. A rocket? No way. Chocolate, yes way. It's everything you need, including $10 off your first grocery order with code,

anything 30, 30. Get almost, almost anything with Uber Eats. Order now. Order a minimum of $30 required, valid on grocery, convenience, retail, specialty foods, or flower delivery orders only, Terms and conditions apply. When WestJet first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere,

and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to WestJetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. Hello, welcome back to the Presti's TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson. I'm Rob Mahoney.

It's Slow Horses season. It's always Slow Horses season in a way. In a way, but quite now it's literally Slow Horses Season, Season 6, Episode 1. Sorry, Series 6. Series 6. The people get angry. Wow, that feeds right into a question I have for you in a minute. If folks want to email us specifically about slow horses, where should they email us?

They should email us about slow horses at Arstime the Pope at gmail.com. That's spelled exactly the way you think it's spelled. A-R-S-E, very important. Correct. First time the Pope. It is a season four reference? I think it might have been series four. I think it might have been series one.

Wow, okay, from like our massive recap episode that we did years ago. How long were we doing this podcast? Honestly, too long. But if that's too difficult for you for any reason, prestige TV at Spotify.com will do fine. We also have a planned mailbag episode coming up and an indeterminate date. So prestige TV at Spotify.com is how you can send in questions. for that. Please do. We will entertain the idea of answering literally any question, whether or not we will actually answer those questions.

Depends on how demented you, the listener, are. Okay. Anything else you want to say, the top, programming-wise? No, I think we covered it nicely. Okay. Our plan is to do this week-to-week for Slow House. Yeah. Six-episode run, nice and breezy. I love it. Actually, on that front, I was listening to McCarran, who's the author of the books on a podcast, talk about sort of why he likes to keep his books very quick, very fast. He writes a lot of novellas in addition to the various Slow Horses books.

But he says he likes to write his books so that you could if you wanted to read them all in one sitting because of Edgar Allan Poe. Who had me bring up Edgar Allen Poe so quick on the pod? I don't know. This is something Edgar Allan Poe

once said about how he prefers to write, why he prefers to write short stories. Okay. If any literary work is too long, to be read at one sitting, we must be content to dispense with the immensely important effect derivable from unity of impression. For if two sittings be required, the affairs of the world interfere and everything like totality is at once destroyed. So basically, if you have to put the book down at any point, you're, you break the spell of the immersion into this world and you have to go

about your day. So I was thinking about this. Edgar, my guy. I was thinking about this in terms of like why we love going to films in the movie theater. And you're just like, you get your complete story. You are sitting in the dark. You are not second screening. You're sharing it with other people. This fully immersive storytelling experience. It might be why some people prefer a binge.

They just want to like binge all of slow horses at once. Get to the bottom of it. Yeah, just like you don't have to worry about your day. You can just watch all of it. I will say, I understand the allure of that. I love going to the movies and sort of having that whole experience. But also like, what is this? podcast, if not letting like world affairs interfere inside of our digestion of story.

It's very true. So I'm up two minds about it. But like, I just thought that was really funny for him to be like, the reason I keep my book so short is because of Edgar Allan Poe and here's why. I never thought an author of fiction would speak so directly to me. But Mick Heron's really doing it. Yeah. Like, I just think we need both, right?

Like, you need the digestible beginning to end story. And then like you and I like to noodle a little bit, you know? Watch an episode, chew the fat, see what's going on. on, theorize if we must. I have a noodle question for you later. A literal noodle question. I simply love to noodle. Okay. On the sort of series versus season front, here's the question that I told you I wanted to start with, which is, and I base this basically on the fact that you and I were exchanging

texts about the upcoming season of Taskmaster. So this is Slow Horses, a very British show. How do you rank, how do you rate our anglophilia? What kind of anglophiles are we? let's say on a scale of one to five. Why not? Arbitrarily. I mean, I think you and I are on totally different scales. I don't think we're on totally different scales. To me, if you want to think about our larger Ringer universe, you, Yasi, CR are kind of like on a planet unto yourself, like draped in Union Jacks, if you will.

I'm just dabbling, you know, I'm popping across the pond here and there, but like, I don't have a bit box, you know? Like my familiarity with this stuff is knee-deep, and you're just full, you know, full head underwater. What's the most like anglophilic thing about you, do you think? I don't think I am. Okay. Yeah. Is it just watching Tasmasters? I think it's the Irish part of me.

Simply won't allow it, frankly. Fair. Very fair. Yeah. Some of us are Irish and English all at once, and we all have our problems. Yeah, we entertain all these things. I'm curious. Press T.TV at Spotify.com if our, if our listeners, maybe if our UK listeners,

have a test for how I would love to hear that we are. How you like a scone? You like a scone. Would you eat it with clotted cream? I do like a scone,

but do I like a scone? That's a whole different question. Would you eat it with clotted cream? Of course. Okay. Of course would. You're on the list. I mean, I'm inclined.

Yeah. I'm not out here. I'm not going to defend British cuisine more broadly. What about a jaffa cake or a jammie dodger? They're fine. Yeah.

Yeah. What about a digestive biscuit? No room of my life. kind of out on all biscuits, it seems like. I just think the whole biscuit culture is not what I'm after. Okay. I would like to continue this. Because an idea I had, and I didn't prep you for this, but like, should we consider

in future episodes covering slow horses, like most English moment or most English phrase or something like that from the episode? I did have a definitive answer for that in this one. Okay. What is your answer? And it is an estate agent getting bashed repeatedly in the head. And then Catherine Sandish being like, would you like a cup of tea? There it is.

And how quickly and eagerly he agreed. Okay, Anglophile Corner. I'm introducing it and we're going to entertain it. Okay. On the sort of Anglophile watch, James Bond, we talked about this in our Furious finale episode, the shortlist that had been sent out about James Bond. We are pre-recording this episode. It is possible James Bond will be announced before this podcast hits the airwaves.

The white smoke will go up. Yeah, exactly. The olive juice will be tossed in the air and James Bond will be selected. But there's been an update on the cast. And I just wanted to talk about casting, especially since our guy, Jack Loudon, was sort of on the short list for a minute. Seems like he might no longer be, may no longer be on the short list. The latest that I've heard is that it's down to three candidates and it's mysteriously still somehow, Callum Turner. Jack O'Connell, who a lot of people were like, why is he missing from that other short list that came out?

Can I posit a theory why he was? Sure. He's not James Bond. Okay, great. And then the third is a mysterious entry. Okay. You have my attention. Calam Turner, Jack O'Connell, both 36 years old.

So if they're looking for like a 36-year-old handsome guy who can maybe do action and is suave. Why is Jack O'Connell not Bond? Completely different energy? Okay. I think too chaotic for Bond. Like more of like a brawler sort of thing. I mean, would be a great Bond villain, would be a great, or not even that, but like another M.I.6 agent who's like kind of rogue or walk in the line, a Trevellion type, you know. Like, I just think.

You don't think he can swap it up. I'm sure he can. I just don't think even everyone can swap up to a degree but that doesn't make you James Bond Okay, what makes you James Bond? I mean, they all kind of redefine it in their own ways, but like, what does

Jack O'Connell bring to that role that's interesting? Is it that chaos? Like a psychotic gleam, I think. Daniel Craig, when Daniel Craig was cast, that was a real like, this guy's kind of too rough around the edges to play Bond was my memory of that casting. Yeah.

Especially off the back of Pierce, sure. Perus, sure. Yeah. So, okay. So third slot, third mystery slots. I have some options for you. Please.

But none of them, I'm assuming, are Jack Loudon, who is now out of the race, hours and slow horse's own Jack Loudon? Seems like he might be out of the race. Tough. Okay. If they want to go younger, now I know you rejected Jacob Allorty on Too Tall.

Too tall. What about a short king, Finn Bennett of True Detective Knight Country, and Night of the Seven Kingdom's fame? Is he that short? Yeah, he's a short king. Oh, wow. I mean, short king.

We're blended in the crowd nicely. I don't hate it. Okay. He's 26. Aaron Taylor Johnson has been on the, like, in the discussion for a really long time. He's also 36 years old. I do want to talk about Bullet Train, actually a little later in this episode, your favorite movie.

He's great in Bullet Train. I know. That movie, though, a little rickety. Off the tracks. Yeah, Aaron Taylor Johnson, Bond. Where are you? See, that, to me, is, like, capturing what would work about Jack O'Connell, but in a package that reads more James Bond to me.

Okay. I think the way in which he, like, is rough around the edges is more appealing to me within... I feel like you need to see Jack O'Connell in a tighter suit. I feel like you have not yet to see him in a suit tight enough to convince you. Maybe it is literally just that. Yeah. Whereas Aaron Taylor Johnson has worn many tight, occasionally shiny suits. But here's the thing.

Now that the fashion world has moved slightly beyond the tight suit. Yeah. Are we poised for a true, like, Gen Z, Gen Alpha slightly baggy or suit? A baggy bond? No. Got to keep a tight. If you're Bond, you can't do Baggy Bond. Here's the thing, Bond, regardless of how old he is, is for the olds.

Let's be real about it. It's very true. I'm not sure that younger people are glom and on to Bond in that way. Dev Patel, 36 years old. Sign me the fuck up. Okay. Why isn't this happen? I really agree.

Dev would be my number one. I have one last candidate for you. And I'm actually not sure if you're familiar with his work. But you watch Bad Sisters, maybe. Daryl McCormick, who was the lead in the movie, Good Luck, Leo Grand, which is the movie where, like, Emma Thompson fucks a second. Yes. I'm familiar with the movie. He's the titular Leo Graham.

Sure. He's also Mr. Bingley in The New Pride and Prejudice. He's extremely handsome, extremely suave, extremely British, extremely charming. Sounds like he's checking the boxes. I'm a fan. 33, so that's a possibility there. But Dev is my number one. And he's like, I told you this

before we started recording, but I kept bringing up Dev's name to other people and they're like, oh, he's too old, alas. He's the same age as Jack O'Connell and Callum Turner. So, DeV Patel for Bond, you agree with me. Completely agree. And it's but a number.

Like, I really don't care how old Bond is. To me, Dev is like absolutely suave enough. Like, has the action chops, like, you know, kind of self-taught in a lot of ways to be a kind of action here. Yeah. Monkey Man, not a great movie, but like, he had the moves. Yes. Yeah.

Honestly, what would really sell me more than anything on the Dev Patel experience more broadly, but as James Bond, him in Green Knight is like as opaque as I want Bond to be. I want like Bond is a character who has a lot of interiority at least in the more modern versions and the Craig version for sure you know like Smarmy Octopussy era Bond maybe not so much but that's that's the direction they've taken it and so a Villanue of Bond I would think would share that. So the Dev Patel experience which is a new emo band that I will be debuting later this year but also what are you what are you playing? Oh I am yeah, Kazoo I think. Oh yeah. I mean, new in the emo space. I don't think I've heard a single emo band with a kazoo reporter.

And that's why we're the Deb Patel experience. It's very true. But yeah, it's, Debb would be so good. He would be the best. He would be really good. And he can be really funny, which Bond needs to be. Incredibly so. Yeah.

And I think it's sort of aged out of like the daffy, goofy funny into a different kind of dry cutting weight that would really work. Can I throw one more name at you? Oh, please. I never would have considered this until I saw Tony. Oh, Leo Woodall. My obsession. As a very specific kind of like brawler bond, you know, it would be, it would have to be a more hand-to-hand kind of movie, but I'm open to that possibility more so than I ever would have thought. This is so fun because we literally had a meeting last week on a Zoom where we were talking about Louia Woodall and you had yet to experience Tony.

So you were not like yet a total convert, but now you've joined the church of Woodall. In that movie, does enough drugs. Yeah. Crashes out hard. Yeah. Fights out like James Bond to me. Steals the movie, honestly. Yeah, he's incredible in one day,

really fun and White Lotus and scary in White Lotus, but in a great way. I think he's fantastic. And Tuna, you haven't seen Tuna yet, right? Tuna, incredible. Tuna are actually, like, because in its own safe cracking way, like, very, very Bondi. So, yeah, okay, Leo Wittall.

Let's just put him in the ring. Gary Oldman, do you want to throw him in the ring? No, let's get into it. Slow Horses. The book inspo for this season, it's a combo. for the first time we're getting two books smashed together in one season. It's a book called Slough House and a book called Joe Country.

Somehow he made it all the way, I think, to like book seven in the series and he hadn't called one Sloughhouse. You got to take the layup. Slough House, Joe Country. Joe Country is like kind of a side quest book. So I understand why they're kind of folding it in because if you did a Joe Country season, like you wouldn't really have Jekton Lamb or Diana Tavner or your guy Roddy Ho, your absolute idol Roddy Ho. So you would, it is a Louisa-centric book, though, so you would have as they all should be, more Louisa. But like, so I think they've just folded some of the storyline of Joe Country into the larger story of Sloughhouse. Another thing that Joe Country has that this season is probably not going to get into is like a lot of like Prince Andrew Royal scandal stuff.

Why aren't they going to get into that? I feel like maybe they were like, let's just not. What if we did it? What if we just didn't? And that seems to have been the move. Any thoughts? feelings you have about the season as a whole before we sort of get into the breakdown of the episode. I just think between the trailers for this season and this first episode, like, it feels like such a culmination effect. And Slow Horses, I would say, more than most shows, is a show I would recommend new viewers could kind of jump in at almost any point. And there's like some background you need, but as long as you understand this is a mostly self-contained spy adventure,

like starring some misfits, I would say maybe a saving, season four. That might be the one that requires some backstory. We did get an email about that from a listener who was like, can I just hop in in series series six? And I was like, I would say no. This one absolutely not. Which to me is why this is kind of an exception to the rule. Yeah, this one formally feels

a bit different than the other ones. And then also yeah, like the fact that Stronloy who we met in series one is briefly back here. I was really excited to see him. Thrilled. Briefly. Harkness is back. River's father's back. So it feels like a lot of characters who have been and gone are coming back. And so it feels like a real payoff season

in a way that the previous ones haven't. Agreed. I think just, it's been a welcome reminder even one episode in of like the institutional memory of the show. All of these little characters, all these bits that have made around the edges of the story, they're better and more realized and funnier and more lively than what you get out of most shows in terms of the main events. And so the fact that the castoffs are coming back, all of these plots are being tied up. Stories that I would never have expected to collide are now colliding. I'm just thrilled for where we could be going. It feels like Slow Horse Christmas to me.

Oh, nice. Let's get into the episode. We're going to go just scene by scene. Why not? Let's do it. The death is true in life. Sadly. We open with a shot of roadkill on the road.

Uncalled for. Very strange. Like in the moment you see, I assume it's a dog. It could be a fox, I guess. Oh, interesting. Just get absolutely replastered into the pavement. Yeah. Rituous, frankly.

Into a karate class. This gem from Struenloy, when someone comes for you, there's no time to think it's your muscle memory that'll save you. He was right. Did not save him. Well, his muscle memory is like going to the pub and be hapless. Trying to make friends. Yeah. And then betraying those friends.

Sat all alone grocery shopping. What do you make of his shipping container housing proposition? Studios in the sky. It doesn't seem great. No? Him living in there also doesn't seem great. I will say which to you is more quietly devastating. Is it being burned alive in your own shipping container condo?

Or is it the quiet mockery of the assassins just prior to their burning you alive in your shipping container condo? Yeah, it's the mockery. It's perfect when they're talking about the stackable nature of the shipping containers is, it's rough stuff. You know how they're on on Rainey Street in Austin there's like a container bar? I don't know if it still exists, but yeah, it was certainly a happening spot once upon a time. It sure was a thing once. I thought of it immediately. Yeah, studios in the sky.

Here's my question. If you, you know, his point was like, it's stackable. You could have a whole block of shipping container housing units. How are we, are we like, is it a ladder system? How are we getting up to the other shipping containers? Wasn't this literally like the situation like Ready Player 1? All these like post-apocalyptic stacked home units? Starring Olivia Cook.

I just like, the dystopian future of us living in shipping containers is unfortunately quite real. And I just like shout out the set decorator for his like very sad laundry hanging shipping container. The utility shelves. Yeah. Every bit of it. Really bad. Okay. So here come our assassins.

Uh, or hit men. What do you prefer? I think assassins is nice. Kyle Saller from Andor fame and Myanna Burring, who I know best from Downton Abbey, but has been in a bunch of stuff. Oh, cool. Have you seen Kill List? No. Oh, I would say do, but also maybe don't.

Maybe don't? It's tough. It's a tough watch. Also great in the Descent. Honestly, like to her in The Dichard, too. Really good in the Descent. I mean, every one of that movies. Everyone's great in the Descent.

Shout out, Bat Guy. That guy's good. Honestly, the cave is very good. Very scary. Pile of Skulls, also fantastic. Undoubtedly effective. Why would I, yes or no, want to see Kill List? Oh, it's a phenomenal movie, but definitely one that afterwards will make you hate the very fact of

being alive. Oh, okay. So if that's your can of worms. We're recording this before Labor Day Weekend. So maybe this is a holiday watch for me? What do you think? I think so. Nice day in the sun.

Nice night with Kill List. Okay, great. Jim and Jane are the name of these assassins. I was kind of bummed about that. Really? Well, mostly because I was hoping for the possibility of us coming on this pod and trying to come up with a cutesy name for them. Okay.

Did you have any candidates? I didn't get that far before I saw Jim and Jane. I was like, is this thing one thing too? Is this Laurel and Hardy? Like, what is their vibe? We barely know them, but they're Jim and Jane already. I did want to do a brief celebration of duo assassins from a film and television. Let's hear it.

Okay. In Bruch. Of course. Pulp Fiction. Yeah. Bullet Train. Lemon and Tangerine. Speaking of fun names, lemon and tangerine.

How dare you sneak bulletin and Brian Tireen. That is the best part of the movie. Lemon and Tangerine from Bullet Train. You're comparing it to two other assassin duos that are like lynch pins of their respective movies. Sure. I didn't say they were centered Those are two admittedly scene stealing characters

In a movie that was begging for scenes to be stolen That movie should have just been about lemon and tangerine To the point where like when they Spoilers for Bullet Train Die in the movie I was like oh no now we can't get a lemon and tangerine Spinoff which we definitely deserved one And I just want to say on the in Bruges front An Incredible Perfect film

Where's your excitement for Wild Horse 9 The Martin McDonough movie that's coming up this year? Over the moon Yeah I've heard incredible things about it I'm really excited. Also, I would say shares a lot in apparent DNA with slow horses. And in Bruch. Well, certainly.

Yeah. But as far as these, like, spies who are kind of bumbling about, kind of off their rocker, like, that speaks to us as people who watch this show. Bumbling spies. They're not assassins in that movie, but, like, kind of, I actually don't fully know the premise of that movie. Aren't all spies kind of assassins? Yeah, there you go.

Fargo, the television series, Rensh, Mr. Rensch, Mr. Numbers. Sure. Great. duo and then Justified, our favorite. Jay and Roscoe, the brothers. I just love assassin duos. Like, why ever have one assassin when you can have two and for them to have a fun dynamic?

I think the argument for that is like the John Cusack and Gross Point Blank argument, which is like, I didn't get in this to be part of a team. Sure. I don't want to be a part of your union. But like, when you want a little, like, don't you want a friend? I mean, I'm-

If you were an assassin. I'm pro-friend. I'm just saying it seems like solitary work for a reason. Privacy is of the essence. In a storytelling sense, when you always opt for duo assassins when you can. Of course. Yeah. This is really fun. Watching them kill poor Sternloy, watching Jane get a splinter from the board that they put in front and her just like them completely disaffected as Sterone is begging for his life and screaming and her just being looking at the little splinter in her

Not to mention the woman they kill on the narrow boat. I know. You can't even do some gardening anymore? But there's just like a fun, like it's almost like a dance. There's just like a fun choreography to it. And their attitude is really fun and the way they sort of like pretended to be a couple as they walked away. I just, I am a huge fan of them. I love Kyle Seller.

I'm really excited. He's here. Thrilled. I have some accent questions. And we'll see how it goes. going forward. They're spies. I mean, assassins, who's to say where they're from?

Yeah. That's what I need. I need them to not be from here. Ambiguous origins. Because Kyle Soler's British accent is very dongy. So I wouldn't mind if he's like from somewhere else pretending to be British. Let me say this. I too love an assassin duo.

I do think for all the reasons you described, it lends itself to this kind of like zany, like almost comedy beat. Yeah. Versus if you have a more serious story, maybe you do want kind of your lone gunman type. Because when you put two in a room, they start riffing, they start asking questions. Like, even just the teamwork you described ends up being kind of funny in its own way. So perfect for slow horses. Maybe not perfect for everything, though.

I do want to shout out Stern-Loy, though, in his final moments. I did enjoy the line. Sorry, I do want you to go now. That might have been one of the most British things this episode. I think it's important to ask for what you want. Yeah. You know? Sorry, I do want you to go now.

I don't think I've ever been able to muster that in my life, even though there have been many times when I wanted people to leave. Oh, no. Joe, that's how you get funny games. You do not want to get funny games. I did have funny games on the long list, but I just didn't want to kill the vibe by bringing up funny games. It's all right. I already introduced kill lists.

Like, the vibes are redness. Okay. Speaking of, our guy, Co, arrives at Slough House. The estate agent does not know he's an estate agent, beats the shit out of him with Roddy's colorful keyboard. How'd you feel about this? You know, I'm going to nominate this for Best Spycraft of the Week. Really?

Yeah. I actually kind of had it as worst. See, look, we just watched another former Slauhaus agent get murdered in a shipping container because he was naive enough to think that these people actually wanted to buy a shipping container from his weird little entrepreneurial entrepreneurial business. Call it by its name, Studios in the sky. Sorry, Studios in the sky. Co's not messing around.

Like, you see a stray laser pointer from an unannounced presence in your government building. I think it's hit with a keyboard for his ask questions later. Yeah, but hit maybe once. Maybe once. not brutally just savage someone. But then he didn't ask questions later. When they're like, who's this guy? He's like, I don't know.

They got to the bottom of it eventually. It's not his job. His job is to incapacitate. I think as a spy, when you're a spy. Okay, Michael Weston. That's exactly what I's going for. When you're a spy, you should ask questions. Again, I think you secure the perimeter first.

You should eat yogurt and ask questions. I'm just saying every time someone has shown up unannounced in Sloughhouse, they mean to do these people harm. Okay. So I think this is good spy craft. This is my worst. My worst piece of spycraft. Every other like slaw house person who gets a visit from these two unannounced dies.

So good job on co, saving everybody's life. And if you're keeping track at home, we have referenced both bullet train and burn notice on this podcast. I think we're doing really well. Diana Taviner and River talk about funeral arrangements. How did you feel about this is how we find out, you know, about his grandfather? How did you feel about that? I was fine finding out this way. Yeah.

And, I mean, we can loop maybe some of the broader David Cartwright stuff in with this just because, like, from this moment on, I found this whole thread to be just pretty devastating. And some of that is like, Jonathan Price is awesome on this show. I mean, the death scene is. That one. He's crying. Gutted me. Yeah.

Just gutted me. And there are things about this grandfather, grandson dynamic that have always, like, hit me particularly hard. I think it's so well acted, so well actualized. And even when we know what we know about what David Cartwright has done in his career. In fact, that makes it even better. And I'll say this. Like, I think narratively, a lot of the River David's story had kind of been told. And you could feel as far as like writing the show.

Yeah. It was only going to get more and more challenging and it was already very challenging. The fact that David is such an important part of River's life, understandably, makes it harder to like pull him into different settings and different stories. Like he has this like really strong tether. Yeah. coming back to David at every turn. And so when the story's not about David, he's almost like too impactful and too charismatic a loose end to just like have there.

To just be roasting chickens or whatever. So like I get why this happened and it's very sad. And also I think to that point, River Cartwright as Sad Boy is just like a button the show can push whenever it wants and it's quite effective. It's all we've ever wanted from him. He's not the slowest horse, but he is the saddest horse. A sad horse who can't even get his mom on the phone when his grandpa

dies and whose dad shows up and is like, oh, mom didn't come, huh? So grandpa died. Yeah. Mom won't answer your calls. Yeah. Dad shows up and not only shows up, but like throat chops you. Yeah. It's just a tough day.

Yeah. And then mocks you for your mom's not showing up. Brutal. Really tough. Okay. I did like his sass to Diana. Oh, your first desk I never would have known. And her sass back, of course, grief exhaustion and immaturity.

My trio, my watchwords. Grief exhaustion and immaturity is how I get. through the day, you know. I mean, we should say, I mean, Tavernor being first desk, this was like laid out at the end of last season. Good for her.

Long time coming. She has slithered her way all the way to the top. We love it. Love the position that puts her and Lamb as far as being across purposes, as always. I am going to miss Claude Whalen a little bit.

Yeah. Like James Callis was so fun on this show, but this is where I was always going to go one way or another. Taverner had to be in that seat at some point of the show. At some, well, yes, I agree, but also like by the rules,

that McHaron lays out, which is like my characters never learn their lessons. Oh, no. You know? And so River saying, hey, you're going to send me back to the park and I'm still here. Like, in terms of the slow horses, never leaving Slough House, there could be a version of that where Diana Taviner never leave second death. Yes. You know, but I'm happy for her. She's also a monster.

She hears about Struen Loi from Emma Flight, and she's just like, eh. Unbothered. Yeah, who cares? But the horses have been white from the system, and no one has been paid. I'm sure it's not a big deal. Okay. Don't worry about it. It's fine. Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes.

A fad to some, the future of money to others. We see crypto's trillion-dollar swings. The end of jobs or the end of human struggle. We see the endless funds fueling the AI hype. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. Okay, so Diana Taviner is now First desk. Yes.

And we meet this new character Oliver Nash, and he is the chair of limitations committee, which means he, which he alludes to, he oversees the budget. Yes. So is he a political appointee? I guess I was trying to figure out what the liaison relationship was here exactly. I think so. But something that's something that McHaron has said is that like the reason he introduced this character in the book is he's like, I like to think of the government as a business.

And it's like when you work your way up to CEO, then you're like, oh, I've made it. But then there's you have to answer the shareholders. You know, like there's just always some other level above you. So this is where we find Diana Tavener still having to answer to someone. What do you make of this new character? Has to be a significant part of the season. And I say that in part just because you don't bring in Lucian Mesomadi

unless you want him to do some serious shit. Is it conclave? What's your touch point for him? Mostly Conclay for me. Okay. Yeah. But also like, I mean. Game of Thrones.

Game of Thrones. Solidro San. Huge theater present and background. Like, this is a heavyweight actor to have just like walk in through the park. Yeah. And so between this and like his interactions with Peter Judd, you can see, I think surrounding Tavernor with another very political animal is like a nice smart counterpoint after the

Claude Whalen experience. And the way that like at the, at the funeral, Peter Judd's like, he's a, he's an operator. Look out for him. We all know what he's been up to. Nosh or Nash. We know where he's been. Yeah. My version of like, you don't call this guy for one scene is my fave.

Harry Lloyd is here. I'm so, I mean, Kylo Saller being here is very important to me. but Harry Lloyd, who plays Damien Cantor. Yes. I would say we know two things about Damien Cantor so far. Yeah. Owns a cable company or a network or a TV network of some kind. Loves a black-on-black suit combination.

I don't know. Can I read you the description of him from the book? Please, too. Okay. She had a long-standing a version of being told what she knew, though it had been a long while since anyone had dared. And this particular man, Damien Cantor, had probably been in school then.

He was mid-30s now. treading the line between being a noise in the business world and still hip to the three-day stubble in trainers. When they went on about 60 being the new 40, they forgot to add that that made 30-somethings the new 12th. So that's making his description. Harry Lloyd, you know, again, another Thrones actor, Nina Gold, who cast Game of Thrones, cast Slow Horses. So she pulls from that trough a lot, but also, you know, stage actors and something like that. When you say trough, I just think of Sam in Oldtown, and I don't like the mental image there. You don't think of horses?

I guess. Harry Lloyd also in a great Doctor Who episode. I'm a huge fan of him. But yeah, here he is playing like a here to show us about billionaires infiltrating political influence via the media. Sure. Getting the VIP treatment. Really excited to see him here. exchanging a lot of meaningful glances

with Peter Judd. So let's be nervous. To the like storytelling tells of this just conspicuously handsome. You know, there's just people who pop up and it's like you're too good looking to be in one episode of this show. Too tall to be bond. It's a gift and a curse.

All right. So what I love about this is when Diana, you know, has her assistant call her away with a bogus code name. I have a question about that. I like to circle back to. Okay, great. Thank you so much. It's a cat-based question, I'm sure.

She gets to say, second desk will take care of you. And I'm sure that felt great. How long has she waited? Yeah. And I don't know that, like, I don't know that guy. No. And so I think that's kind of interesting that they haven't, like, cast, like, someone as second desk.

And so it's just sort of like, second desk will take care of you. Well, Diana Tavernor's been the only second desk of note. Everybody else is a vice presidential job, you know? How much work can you really do? What's your code Vulcan question you want to ask? Yeah, so Code Vulcan, as you alluded to, is the fake call to get Diana Tavernor back, back onto the job. Yeah. I ask you, Joanna Robinson?

Yeah. Co-host of House of Var. Sure, noted cat person. Acclaimed cat person. Is Vulcan a good cat name? Oh, yeah, I think so. You don't think so? I don't know.

I was kind of torn on it. It seemed a little... Do you think it's Vulcan as in Star Trek or Vulcan is in the Roman God? It only occurred to me as Star Trek. Okay. Does it change your mind? mind if it's the Roman god. Well, I actually don't know much about Vulcan, the Roman god.

It's Hephaestus, the Greek god Hephaustus. Yeah. I don't know. It's where we get Volcano. I don't know that I love either interpretation for a cat. But I'm not a cat guy, so I can't speak to their culture. My vision of Vulcan, this cat is like a very tall, slinky, short hair black male cat is definitely named Vulcan.

Okay. Yeah. I'm pro. Look, you're the expert. I'd heard you on all things. Thank you. Cat. Yes.

Sorry, whole things dot-da-dot. Cat. Okay, I'm sorry, this might be my favorite part of the whole episodes. The horses try to offer River condolences, right? Yes. Roddy Ho. Rob, I know you're an active Googler when you're watching an episode. I am, yeah.

Did you look this up? I did look this up. Okay, so what does Roddy Ho say and where perhaps would he have drawn such inspiration? The first thing he says is grief river is merely the shadow of love. Beautiful. Which I couldn't find that attributed anyway. That just seems like an authentic Roddy-Haw original. Truly.

And not a bad one. I think quite good. Yeah. Could have stopped there. Could have stopped there. But he continues. If one day the speed kills me, do not cry because I was smiling. Yeah.

A quote, I can only find grossly misattributed to Paul Walker. Yeah. The only phrase is grossly misattributed. I mean, let's be clear, there's no evidence he has ever said this. It's a widespread delusional notion that the internet has that Paul Walker somehow, uh, You know, envisioning his future horrific death by automobile once said, if one day the speed kills me, don't cry because I was smiling. Do you think Roddy Ho believes that that is something Paul Walker said?

A thousand percent. Do you think Roddy Ho has it written on anything like? On his body. He has it tattooed. Tramp stamp. People do have this tattooed on their body. I did find that via Googling. Here's the thing.

If you're getting a tattoo out there. And it's a quote of any kind. Make sure it's attributed. Fucking Google it. Just once. Make sure it's a real quote or at least coming from where you think it's coming from. It's not like a Hitler throwaway line from somewhere. I just think you need to double check these things.

No Hitler bonbons, please on your body. Yeah, I read one, I mean, I did some Googling about this, but one article I read was just this journalist in sheer shock that this was a made-up quote. So he was like, I found out this isn't even a real quote. and I tried to get to the bottom of it, and I can't find where it came from. It doesn't even sound like the cadence of a person talking. Yeah. And I think this is pre sort of the proliferation of AI, but it sounds very AI.

Like, what did Paul Walker say before he died? If one day the speed kills me, don't cry because I was smiling. This is, whoever put this in the script for Rado to say, thank you so much. It was delightful. And I would say justifiably earns a dart to the back from Shirley. Yes. And the very particular Yelp that Chris Chung lets out. magnificent.

Who were you most... Who that we saw in this episode? Because I know that there are some other people you're excited to see this season. But who that we saw

in this episode were you most excited to be back with? I think the answer right now is River. And he's just been like around the bend with so many like again, side stories

or family stories. Yeah. And clearly there's going to be some shade of that here. But I'm just looking forward to him getting back to like good old-fashioned spy craft.

Like just getting down down in the dirt with everybody else again. And I say that in part like I love Shirley and Co. Yeah. They seem poised as ever for comic relief more than anything, although you know it's a new season of slow horses because Shirley's got a new haircut yet again. I love it. It's like one of my favorites for her. I mean, I think she looks fantastic.

If we did not have an email already, Agent Fringe at gmail.com would be right there. So good. But so other than that, it's like. Can we have two bang-based emails associated with our podcast, though? I think we can have as many as we dream up. Wow, Dr. Fringe. That's for the pit UK's been off. The Pit U.K., Dr. Fringe. I think he could work over there. Look, if they, if they produce the pit on a slow horses filming schedule, could you even imagine?

Oh, my God. But is it six episodes or is it? It's a shorter shift. It's a shorter shift. They have better work-life balance over there. Great. They can clock out. How aware are you of my brilliant career, the Netflix TV series?

Not. So it stars, it's an Australian Netflix TV series. It stars Chris Chong. It just came out quite recently. It's like a period piece. He is the like... What is the period? Early 20th century.

Okay. He is the romantic. lead of this show. And so I just like, for all the Ronnie Ho heads out there, I really recommend you check out my brilliant career. I can 100% see it. He's also that particular brand of TV or film nerd where it's like, this dude's just jacked. And like they played that into the story at a certain point.

But like, let's be real. If you saw Chris Jung on the street, you'd be like, that guy is super hot. That's also canonical. Like literally even the counterspies last season were like, this dude's a piece of meat. Yeah, super hot. Let's not pretend he doesn't have. have his functions in society. Just don't open your mouth and we are fine. Okay. All right, Emma Flight shows up to tell Jackson Lamb about Stronloi and he is enjoying a nice Italian lunch. We're not doing the usual noodles. This appears to be some papadele. Okay. Is what I would say. Yeah. Maybe some Tali-a-Teli. So my question for you is like, but it's the, the important thing is that he can slurp. It is a slurpable noodle. He simply must slurp. Yeah. If he's not slurping, he's not living. No.

What is your ideal noodle shape? I'm not a slurper. Yeah. You're not known for it. Well, I mean, look, this is a true question because it depends on the sauce. Okay. I think in a lot of, you know, if you're looking for like a slightly thicker, creamy or maybe like a vodka sauce, love a kavatapi personally. Yeah.

A kind of corkscrewy, but with Ridges situation. Love a Bukitini otherwise. I like a thicker, like angel hair, get out of here. Yeah. Like anything too thin, not really my speed. also fetuccini. Eh, like, I want kind of a sweet spot and mostly tubular. Yeah, sweet spot, mostly tubular.

I mean, where are you coming from? I mean literally tubular. It's a word. I know you do. Leave me alone. Listen, I'm fond of Fusili, honestly. I'm a fan. But in general, I'm a big Papperdale person.

Like, I really love Papparedele. You know what came up for me recently when we were bringing on a lot of state fair related emails from our coverage of Furious for reasons that, I mean, defy explanation or memory even for me how, I guess it was the canning debate. Yeah. A listener referred to, and I had heard this colloquially before, specifically in like upstate New York, Central New York, the idea of referring to Rigetone as rigis, specifically chicken rigis. Oh, I didn't enjoy that when you just said it. I don't ever enjoy it the very thought that some people are out there. No offense to our particular email. It's not their fault. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

It's really a cultural plague, but we got to stop San Rigge's if we're doing that. Before we leave this, very crucial part of our slow horse's conversation. I want to shout out Campanelli pasta, which is sort of like the cone shape with the ridges on the edge of it. Really good, you know, to your point, sauce catcher. So it's all about. A little burst of flavor as you're eating the Campanelli. How did you feel about the way that Jackson Lamb was eating this puffer deli and or how Emma navigated her interaction with him here? Him eating is upsetting as always, but crucial to the show.

We need these scenes. Usually, you know, it's more of like a, usually a Chinese noodle situation. That's what I'm saying. He's branching out. Or maybe just new businesses are popping up around Slough House, whatever it may be. I did love this scene, though. And I'm excited, just from this episode alone, we have been holding out hope of like some signs of life from Emma Flight as an interesting, well-rounded character. Yeah.

And her going, like, around Tavernor based on, in a hunch, based on reading this. this report about like Struan's death specifically and like the kind of weird circumstances surrounding it. Like the combination of instinct and defiance plus someone who's like clearly intelligent has been shown to be but also has just been like a pawn for Lamb to run circles around in previous seasons. I'm just hoping this is the season she takes like gets her wings.

Would you describe your podcasting style as full of instinct and defiance? No, I would not. I hate to say I am a rule follower to the surprise of nobody. body. This is my lamb shank. You know, there's not a ton of options, I would say.

This would be my one critique of this episode. I really liked this episode. We should say there's a new showrunner, you know, helming this season. And so we were a little apprehensive about will the writing feel the same, you know? It's the same cast. Visually does not look that dissimilar. Well, Adam Randall, who directed this episode, directed all of season four. Emmy Award winning.

Yes. Famously. I'm Randall. So visually looks similar. The cast is here. We're still doing McHaron books, but are we going to lose a little bit of the slice and dice of the dialogue?

And I will say, I don't think Jackson Lamb said anything that just blew my hair all the way back inside of this episode. There's one other one that I really loved that I want to hold on to for now. But here he says the opinion on Struen Loi is divided,

complete waste of space. Some other people call that overly generous. So that would be my lampshank of the week. And also in a field of spectacular underachievers, he really did stand out as being entirely without fucking use. I mean, really went on and on about Struenloy. Tough. Not undeserved in some ways.

Harsh, but that guy did suck. Also sucked at his job. Also betrayed the slow horses. Did betray them, yes. We don't know anything about the poor woman who got shoved off a boat. No. You know. But he does his classic, like, I don't give a shit. Leave the file, though.

Yeah. You know. And then. And Emma clocks it, too. Yes. Like, that to me is some of the reward of this scene. That's the instinct. What about the defiance, though?

We'll see about the defiance. And then he calls River. So here's my question. Is this like an act of kindness to get River out of the office so he doesn't have to hear fake Paul Walker quotes anymore? But more, like, he knows that River is upset about David and he's like, let's go look at a crime scene.

He could have called anyone. He calls River. What do you make of that? I think it is an act of kindness. I'm just constantly looking for kernels of goodness from Jackson Lamb. You know, if he's not going to get it from his actual dad, from his spy daddy, certainly. There is the gesture of kindness. Yeah.

But then they get there. And I would present my lamb shank of the week. Sure. Just him telling River, I'm going to do my best Jackson Lamb doing River Cartwright. When am I going to get back to the park? My granddad's dead. Well, like, he has to, like, Preserve normalcy.

He can't treat him with kid gloves because that he'll know he's being handled. So he's like, if he didn't cut him down, it would be weird. He didn't viciously mock him. It would be strange. Honestly, you're right. Gives him some spy fatherly advice. Yeah. It takes a few cracks at the container.

Yeah. I don't know that much has resolved there, but the gesture does mean something. It was good to see River work off a little bit of steam there. Jackson Lamb, effortless detective work just being like, looks like this piece of wood sure was used to hold this door shut. They didn't hide it. No. Is that your note for Jane? I don't know that it is.

Fling the wood further? Well, I would say this. First of all, we don't really know what their intentions are or if they mean. If they want to be caught or not. If they want to call attention to something, like we've seen that in so many slow horses seasons where the initial actions are like a diversion effectively. Or is there a reason they want to call attention to picking off the slow horses specifically, which seems to be their goal? Did you get nervous when you heard who calls their child, who the fuck calls their child River? I honestly thought she made some of it. great points.

Points for me. I mean what? We got River Phoenix. Sure. We got Rivers Cuomo. Uh-huh. River song? Yeah.

I mean, kind of. Melody Pond. Kind of. Let's be real. I think River's a cool name. But there aren't many rivers. No. So it is a little bit of like a who the fuck names their kid River.

Sure. Did I tell you that I met a listener named Strider? Did I tell you this? You did and it was upsetting. Would you like to share the story? Well, just that he was born in the year, Return of the King came out. And this is a little. second podcast I've talked about him on, so I'm sorry, Strider. But I just think, I just genuinely

think it's a very cool name. It is a cool name, but there's no Strider in Return of the King, I would say. At that point, he's fully Eragorn. My friend. I'm just saying. He's eternally strider in here. Yes, he. But spiritually, he's given up. Just because he's washed his hair, doesn't mean he has washed the ranger out of him. I think he kind of has. That's the whole point. You think Arwen would stay married to a king that has not a scrap a ranger in him? I think the scrap is there But pretend that he is A Ranger

He's gone He's not Strider You know Like once you put the crown on You're not a Ranger I'm just sorry Your old life is behind you This is a preposter's take from someone

Who doesn't even watch The Extended Edition So I prefer the superior version Here's my Here's actually my main main issue With this episode An episode I quite liked The Catherine stuff

Because which part Well when she goes to the park I mean I did like the part Where she was like fondling Moira's inkjet printer. So like that. The printer envy was very good. That was great.

She sees Charles photo. And it is important, A, for us to see her seeing Charles's photo to remind us of her relationship to Charles. And then, like, you know, eyes a bottle of booze, lest we forget, like, you know, what her foibles are or whatever. But then the reveal at the funeral, that, like, extremely clumsy reveal where Diana in public is like, I'm not Charles. don't shoot me. I just thought that was like

an deeply unhinged thing that Diana Tavernor would not say in public and then for Catherine to like fall over and run away. I just thought that was all very clumsily executed. Diana Tavernor's so calculated. Yeah. That like yes, the idea of

I'm going to say this in front of Catherine Standish I don't believe knows information, sure. But as you say out in public. Yeah, surrounded by all the Department of Transport. Does it track whatsoever? Luminaries. Yeah. And frankly I mean, so all of all of that has been parceled out in such small doses since the very beginning of the show. Like, what happened to Charles Partner?

And we have been led in as an audience to know the Jackson Lamb killed him. When will Catherine find out? Yes. I honestly kind of forgot that she didn't know. Yeah. I thought, like, you and Diana Tavern are both. We're like, Catherine doesn't know this yet? I thought the reveal at the end of season three was the whole truth. Right.

But I believe the reveal at the end of season three was she found out that he was a traitor, not necessarily who had to deal with him. In this case, Lamb was the assassin sent to kill him. So getting one more kick out of like that pinata, unnecessary. Yeah. But I loved Catherine Standish in the rest of this episode. I'm never going to be mad at her being centered in plot. No.

It did, that part did seem clunky to me as well. It just didn't feel as smoothly written as the rest of the show often is. Can we talk about the Moira part of that, though, before we even get to the later scenes? Is it because Tregorian is one of the best names that has ever existed in fiction? Phenomenal. Moira Tregorian. Great, great name. What do you want to say?

I mean, one, I think just reintroducing her yet another, like, Slough House alum. But I believe canonically, the own, literally the only person who has ever gone from Sloughhouse back to the park. Like, they make a big show through all these seasons of like no one has ever actually done this. But Moor has actually found her way back up. You can see why she would be a little touchy about people talking about that in the hall. She's like, you stay here. Yes. I don't need anyone to see you with me.

But she also sets up what for me is such a critical part of the Slow Horses experience, which is all of these seasons are like, comedies of accountability. It's like no one wants to be holding the bag when it blows up. And so for Moore, it's like, whatever's going on with Slyhaus and the database, I don't want it on me. I need to clear my reputation.

She passes it off the tavernor effectively. Same thing. Oh, it must be a glitch. It must be an oversight because we're overhauling the system. Must it? I mean, what's going on? In the world of slow horses,

you must introduce the possibility that this is clearly for reasons that are beyond my fault. If X slow horses are being bumped off, Does going back to the park count as being an ex-slow horse? I think it still does. Formally of Slough House.

I guess it depends on. Whatever it is that these assassins are after, like, why would they be targeting Slough House specifically? I mean, it's interesting because they're clearly not after information because they're not interrogating anyone before they, you know, bump them off. They have a boss, they mention. I feel like that's real. It wasn't just Bantz. And so, yeah, I don't know what they're up to, but like, why would they want, why would they need to kill? Is it because they know something?

and so they all have to be erased. But how would every slow horse know something? And what would they know? Especially like, Struan knows nothing. What Jackson Lamb smells like. That they all share. If you've been in that building, it never really washes off you.

I'm sure. You can live on a boat your whole life and it'll never leave you. That was tough. I mean, I've always kind of wanted to live on a narrow boat, though. That's a nice little houseboat. She's got a good situation.

Narrow boats are like really cool looking. And she just got decked and pushed into the river and drowned? Yeah. It's not the way I would like to go. No? Probably not.

Better that than burning in a shipping container, I think. Oh, look. If you're going to pick and choose, that would be the preference. Absolutely. But hopefully there's cleaner ways for the other slow horses to die yet. Yeah, peacefully in your sleep, please. Jane and Jim, you're taking requests. You're taking requests.

It's the least they could do. Just slip something in the tea and I'll be fine. All right. River flashes back to David dying. And he does it after he's like vigorously polishing his shoes, eating lonely in front of the television. And then we get this flashback. This was so sad.

We'll talk more, which, I mean, we don't know if this is the final conversation, but it kind of feels like it was the final conversation. We'll talk more and they won't. David's saying like, I'll miss you. I won't miss living without her, but I'll miss you. Davast, Stee. Are you trying to kill me? And then he's crying.

Jonathan Price is sitting there in the bed like tears on his face as he dies. I mean, it feels like this is probably the last we will see of Jonathan Price on this show. I guess there's always the possibility of another flashback to come or something. Other like deathbed flashbacks.

I mean, either deathbed or like backstory for various spy hijinks. I did like the photos that they chose to like show us because so often in those cases it's like a badly photoshopped like young Jack Loudin with like a young Jonathan Price but they just showed us like a very young young, very dashing Jonathan Price, and you can sort of like see him as a young spy, like,

during the Cold War or something like that. And then, you know, Jonathan Price with a kiddo on his shoulder who could have been anyone is from far enough away that is just sort of like, well, this do. And they're like, sounds great. It did do. I always think about those conversations when like you're an actor starring and something in the production team's like, we're going to need some of your personal family photos. I was thinking about this the other day, too. Like the logistics of, does like some executive assistant email your mom? Do you bring the photos in? Like what is happening?

Right. To get those in the right hands to be like frankly poorly photoshopped most of the time. Absolutely. But I just found myself very grateful for this scene. Like Jonathan Price has been a really, like fun isn't the right word, but such an interesting character to have on this show. And someone who brings out sometimes the worst than Jackson Lamb. Yeah. These like self-destructive but also aspirational parts of River.

Like he's such a great foil. for those two specifically, that losing him is a loss for the narrativeization of the show. But as I said before, I think he's also kind of run his course as a part of it. It is interesting in a show that is so stubbornly anti-character development to see sort of like what this does to River. We already saw some changes in River when the dementia started getting to his grandfather and he lost that touchstone that he had in his life.

But it's interesting. So they've already filmed series seven. This is series six. They've already filmed series seven. And they are currently filming. Series 8. I don't know how many seasons, they're running out of books, I think.

And, you know, not that that's stopped anyone before, but, like, I don't know. Usually goes very well. I don't, yeah. I don't know how long they're planning to do this. And I don't know, because I'm unfamiliar sort of where the story goes after these books,

like what McHaron has in mind for River and stuff like that. But, like, is the death, does the death of David Cartwright, like, do something, definitive to River to change his life in some way or another. I don't know. How does it nudge him?

How does it move him? I would say throughout the show has been an exercise in him trying to fit into his grandfather's suit. And so him literally doing it in this episode is just kind of icing on the cake. So that's my... So these are our recurring bits, right?

Lambshank's best use of spy craft worst use of spy craft and then like coat watch? Or fit watch more broadly, I would say. I will say River Cartwright, right? in his grandfather's suit at the funeral. He looks very nice. Giving a Department of Transport Eulogy.

It's pretty funny. Him listing off various transportation vehicles as lamb cackles. And then going on and then looping back. Mini buses. But actually the biggest laugh I got in that funeral scene, and we love a laugh during a funeral scene, was Diana Tavener staring daggers at Peter Judd during the hymn that they were singing? The severity.

Yeah, it was just sort of like just the way the kid. camera caught her in focus and then pulled focus into Peter Judd and she's just behind their shoulders just like staring them down. I mean, I think we kind of fast forwarded through that part. Peter Judd back. Yeah. And this man cannot die. No. Cannot be canceled. Yeah. Cannot be implicated. Yeah. And I frankly, I would not have it any other way. So you, you described the way that Diana Tavanaugh made it to First Desk is slithering. Yeah. Which I like. What would you, how would you describe the way that Peter Judd just keeps? Is he an oozer? What does he do? Well, he's just a straight cockroach. So it's more of a crawl-in-the-wall situation. There's just no, like, there's nothing

you can do with that guy. He will always find some other big bag of money to hide under, some table to crawl behind. And like, honestly, too, like Samuel West is almost concerningly good at playing Peter Judd. Yeah. Just like the very specific, smarmy blowhard energy he brings to this character, wonderful. And like, there's a reason he keeps coming back. He's such useful device for the show. But he's also just like such a awesome presence to play off of any scenes. What I think is a really fun aspect of the show is that Peter Judd, so I think McHaron tries not to do like necessarily a ton of one-to-one comps of like people to their fictional counterparts. But Peter Judd is reportedly based on Boris Johnson and the way he's described in the book is much more Boris Johnsony in like his slovenly appearance and his hair and stuff like that. So to cast Samuel West, who's just like a very neat and tidy man, you know, they like really went against the type of.

of how he's depicted in the book and the real world comp for him. But I think it just makes it all that. He's absolutely a disgusting, reprehensible person in this neat and tidy little package that I just think makes him scarier. Completely scary. And it's made him very realistic, too,

in terms of some of these series being like an alt-right kind of manifestation. Yeah, like there is the Boris Johnson part, but there's so many different political energies in him for whatever the plot needs. And so far in this season, It's just like a dude who is a mover and a manipulator who also gets his rocks off at like a Russian bot farm being attacked. So he has something on Diana seemingly, right? Does he?

Well, she's like, where do the money come from? Oh, yeah. So that's one of the revelations of this episode, right? The money that was purportedly seized from him was fronted by somebody else. And I thought the implication of this conversation was I know where that money came from. you're not going to like where that money came down. Oh, I think that's definitely the implication. Okay, so that's what I mean by he has something on her, which is like he has information about some money that she has used in some way or another.

And so, you know, here she is. Brand new first desk already compromised in some way or another. She looked a little shook at that reveal. Yeah. Didn't go over well for her. Rivers' dad shows up. I mean, you know, shout out to Shirley and Co. Who do show up to the funeral.

They do. They don't go in. They don't go in. I mean, I'm trying to think of like, what I go to a funeral for a sausage roll. A co-worker's funeral? I would go to any co-workers' relatives' funeral, I should say. I would go to any, if I was invited to a co-worker's relative funeral, I would definitely go. Okay, I'm just trying to think of the thing I would least like to do that I would definitely do for a sausage rule.

Yeah, it's like the UK version of what we do for a Klondike bar. You're just creating like a whole advertisement campaign for a, for Craigs. All right. That's just something to ponder. I guess email us, you know? What would you do for Greg's? Ourstime to Pope at GMO.com.

It better be a, it better be a Greg's. Like, Catherine better get a name brand saucy roll. I know we discussed this previously. Is Greg's the cream of the crop? Yeah. Well, I mean,

or just the name brand. It is both the most popular and I think the cream of the crop at the same time. But it could be wrong. I'm down for like an artisan sausage roll. Oh, yeah. Somebody out there is doing the work.

Someone at home, like a Njella's recipe for a sausage roll. I just think you can probably find a sausage roll guy, you know? Oh, okay. Off the grid a little bit. There's like a weird, like, Facebook listing you have to respond to, and you can just order, like,

six sausage rolls. I think I would be... I think I would be... Not for one person. I just don't understand. No, it wasn't that. It was, like, your dark web sausage roll versus... Oh, no, I'm just thinking of it as, like, the British parallel of, like, finding a tamale lady, you know? Oh, my God. Like, you just... There are times in your life where you need to go to the dark web for food.

Well, the tamale ladies of San Francisco would just find you. You would be at Zikeis. it would be two in the morning and she would roll in with her little case of tamales. I welcome it, but sometimes you want tamales on your own time. Okay. It would be master of your own domain. Maybe that was a Bay Area privilege. And here in L.A., you need to go and find your tamales.

Hugo Weaving is back as Frank Harkness. Well, how did you feel about that? I would say, anecdotally, season four of Slow Horses is, like, among the more controversial of this otherwise quite beloved show. Not our favorite. Not our favorite. And we didn't like love the Frank Harkness stuff in that season. Not if you go weaving's fault. No.

It depends how they use him. Yes. I thought he was great in this. I mean, this is just a horrifying thing to watch River Go Through. No good, very bad day. So it just depends how they use him for the rest of the season, I think. For sure. Like I don't think it's, I'm not like, oh, this character's back.

But, you know, I don't want to go back to the energy of season four, a series four, I suppose. I'm hoping we can rewrite some of that. Like, give us a. a better feeling about who this character can be in the context of the story when he isn't dominating it. All right, any of the categories that you want to name

that we haven't gotten to? My Fit Watch, Catherine Standish, when she rolls into Slough House in the rain. Beautiful brown overcoat. Okay. Scarf game on point.

Yeah. But in particular, just like a nice little plaid hat situation that I think really suits her. That makes you really happy. I love Catherine Sandish. How about you? Do you have any leftovers?

I think I did not name my worst use of spycraft. Oh, I also did not do that. And it is true in law. That's got to be it. Just no questions asked. Just obliviously, these very well-dressed, vaguely European-looking hot people. Now listen, if he's like, are they looking for a third, something like that, perhaps. Yeah. This is a man who used to be married with children. But no spotty senses are tingling when these two show up. So, there's nothing tingling. Yeah. I mean, died as he lived. Sad and in andept, unfortunately. All right. Anything else? I do have two.

small little things to circle back two. Yeah. One, when Lamb and River have kind of ascertained what might have happened with Struin and Lamb calls Roddy. Like, okay, pull up whatever list we have of slow horses. Find if any have been

killed under mysterious circumstances lately. Roddy is playing I believe it's ghost of sushi mill, but it could be ghost of Yota. It's hard to tell one from the other, to be honest with you. I had the same problem. But puts it down immediately. And does his job.

I was like, how'd you feel about it? Is this growth? Is this development? It's like, I just never, in all of my years, never would have thought Roddy Ho would like take an order and do it. No, like no ifsans or butts, no little barb. Do you think it's because his life might be on the line?

I don't know. He seems pretty casual the rest of the time. He's just like bumping EDM and throwing darts. Okay. So like, he didn't seem too worried. I would say the other thing I wanted to bring up, this is not SpontCon. But when Frank gets back in his car. To be clear, the Greg's shoutout is Spong.

We're eagerly courting a Greg sponsorship. We'll work for Gregs. Yes. When Frank gets in his car, River jumps on the hood, throws River off and does like a pinpoint turn around River without running him over. I just think if you're out there, it is a Volvo. Yeah. I mean, look, let's say this for balance. Volvo, the vehicle of super assassin murderers everywhere.

Okay. But also, if you're looking to smoothly navigate around someone you've just thrown off your hood, I was amazed by its maneuverability. Okay. Does the person need to be a neglected child of yours? I find it to be most effective if they are. Okay, okay. I think, in Series 4, that was also a Volvo, right? Like the car that had a bunch of stuff hidden in it that they took apart?

I think you may be right. And spiritually, Slow Wars as being a Volvo show, does check out. I love a Volvo. Look, no slights, but. This is where we are in the pecking order. It's a practical car. All right, anything else? I think we did it, Joe.

I mean, you sounded mostly positive about this episode. I'm very, I'm positive, but I'm just on the lookout for things that feel slightly less sharp just to see. But maybe it will feel sharper. And I am excited about, you know, if we're, if we're smashing two make-haer and books together and it's still a six-episode season, that sounds like a lot of potentially fun plot, all smashed to. together, excited for all the people we've seen in the trailers who might be in this season, excited for chickens, various chickens coming home to roost. I just think the potential for the season is really high. And I hope the dialogue writing matches sort of the plot possibilities of the season.

You know? I love a roost. I love reaping and sewing. I love all of our old friends returning. And I mean, I just am beyond extent. at the prospect, the trailer-based prospect, the Louisa Guy will be back in our lives very soon. So, look, dare I wish for episode two?

Should I be so greedy that she would be back so soon? But they haven't even started putting together the why of slow horses, why slow horses are being hunted. Because she would be an ex-slow horse. Clearly, I mean, presumably, at least on hiatus. I don't know what her status is exactly at this point, but you would think that's how she's going to get pulled into the fold. Not at the funeral.

She and River were really close. She's not at the funeral. But she's gone like no contact too. So she might just not know. Oh, tough. And that was hidden. And he didn't even try to call her. That was hidden way in the metro section because he's, you know, working for the Department of Transport.

Very good. Where would you put this episode in terms of like season premieres for slow horses? I thought this was really promising. Yeah. Not like propulsive in the ways that you want to see the initial kind of mystery set. And I think the dialogue worked a little better for me. I think the Catherine Sanders thing you're right to point out with Diana Tavernor was a little clung. I don't think overall it felt like a different show by any stretch of the imagination.

I think I'm just like my hackles are slightly erased, but we'll see we'll see how it goes. And we didn't get to see Jackson Lamb's toe at any point. And that's, you know, that's always a disappointment. I'm okay with that. Are you? You want more toe? I don't know. It's just like a main character of the show at this point.

So I feel like we need to see it. Yeah. All right. So Arstime the Pope at Gmail.com, if you want to give us an anglophile test, if you want to tell us what you would do for a sausage roll, this is normal. Your favorite pasta? Yeah, your favorite pasta shape, et cetera, et cetera. We'd love to hear it. PrestiGTV at Spotify.com.

If you have stranger questions that you want to send us for our mailback episode, any slow horses theories. Oh, yes. Other characters you would like to see come back. Well, how about this? Stay with me for a second. Okay. I mean, what if we just, there's already a lot of Game of Thrones alum on this show. Sure.

Somebody pounds a staff, someone's eyes light up a little blue, and there comes Min Harper out from the grave. Wow. I mean, look, all slow horses must return. Uh-huh. You know, they must be called back. They must be protected, even in death. I would love to see Min again. Zombie men, if it's, look.

Zombie men would be incredible. If that's what it takes. That's what it takes. Zombie Marcus, too? I mean, clearly. Okay, great. I don't think Shirley's ever been the same since. I agree.

I agree. The fringe tells the tale. All right. So we'll be back with Slow Horses, episode two, some other fun stuff we're cooking up. Thank you to our Slough House here. Seems disrespectful. Our park. Well, even that seems disrespectful.

I don't know which one's better at this point. Our extremely hot assassin duos. There we go. Okay. Kai Grady, Devereignaldo, Jacob Cornett. We appreciate you all. And we'll see you soon. Bye.