The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Succession’ Hall of Fame: “Vaulter”

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

Joanna Robinson and Van Lathan discuss our fourth entry into the ‘Succession’ Hall of Fame: Episode 2 of Season 2, “Vaulter.” Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Van Lathan Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Kendall, what the fuck are you doing? The fuck is going on. Yeah. Sorry about the cloak and dagger. I just needed some time to entangle all your shit. Find the profit centers, keep the union no far back. We're already fully operational on seven. Why?

Because my dad told me to. Because your dad told you to? Jesus Christ. Because your dad told you to? Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson. Joining me today because, uh, because his daddy told him to. It's Van Lathan.

Hi, Van. How are you? I am well, and sometimes you got to do what your dad says. We're here to do another Succession Hall of Fame episode. We're here to talk about Season 2, Episode 2, Volter, in advance of our sort of Wal-to-Wall coverage of Succession that's kicking off next week, I believe, with season four. Just so you know what's going on the Prestige Feed, we're doing these Succession Hall of Fame episodes. Bill and Juliet did a little chat about Daisy Jones on the 6. That exists in the feed.

You might want to check that out. Van and Charles and Mallory and I all wrapped up our Last of Us coverage in this feed. Full-blown season four succession coverage is coming. I'll be there. Sean will be there. Bill will be there. It's all happening. And then Mallory and I will be covering yellow jackets.

So guess what? If you're not subscribing to this feed, what on earth are you doing with your life? There's everything going on in the prestige feed. So we just want to check in with these. highlight episodes through the previous three seasons of Succession before we land on season four. Van, I've never gotten to talk to you about Succession. So I just want to start with your overall big picture. Bill has been really interested in this conversation of where does Succession

fit in the pantheon of capital G, great, capital S shows? What do you think? Where is its position right now? It's way up there for me. It's a show that I really didn't want to like. Why? You know? Because the characters are steeped in this kind of.

You know, I don't like people like that. People kept telling me to watch it. I didn't find succession until the pandemic, you know. People kept telling me to watch. It's like, you got to watch, you got to watch it. And then after I peeled all of my nails off of my hand and cut my hair, pulled all my hair out, you know. But after all of that, I'm like, I'll put it on. And right away, I was like, this is just not for me.

You know, remember there's the scene where there's the kickball game. And Roman is just, I'm like, I can't watch this. and it took one more episode for me to be like, all right, I don't know what they've managed to accomplish with this show. I'm not sure how they're doing what it is that they're doing, but this is some of the most magnetic television that I've ever seen. So I really enjoy it, and I think the performances are outstanding in every single role.

The pacing is perfect. The overall tenor of the show is pretty unmeted, so I think it's very high for me. What are your top three all-time panthers? on shows, like ever, the best shows ever. Ever. The Wire is the straight up best television show of all time. It's the greatest television at all time.

The Sopranos is for me the most entertaining show of all the time. The Wire is better than The Sopranos, but if I'm doing a rewatch, it might be the Sopranos over the Wire, even though I rewatch the Wire all the time. I don't know. I can't really say that. I can't really say that. It's probably time. That third slot is really interesting because there have been a lot of shows that have occupied that third slot.

I think I'm going to go with Netflix's Iron Fist. I'm just not just joking. No, the third slot is really hard for me. I'm a Breaking Badhead. I'm a Game of Thrones head. But if I'm really thinking about it for me, it's probably Atlanta. it's probably Atlanta for me especially you know at the Atlanta season three wasn't for everybody I loved it the anthology episodes I wish they did more of it but Atlanta season four cleaned things up so amazingly that for all time shows that I really think are prestige prestigious like it's probably Atlanta for me if you're listening and you've watched Atlanta but you haven't listened to Charles and Van talk about it on this very feed I really recommend you do it really like elevates the whole experience to another level.

So in those like one, two, three, in a ranking that includes that one through three, does succession get into like the top ten, the top five? Like, where is it for you? So let's think. It's probably, it's probably at five. Okay. So it's probably breaking bad in succession or it may be may, might even be succession than breaking bad.

And then if this final season just like absolutely knocks at the fuck out of the park, the finale is amazing, whatever, does it have the possibility to break into like? like the top three for you. Yep. Absolutely. Pressure's on. No pressure. No pressure.

But if you want to be in Vance Fable, top three, you know, get it together for final season. A criticism that comes up a lot with Succession for people who don't like the show is that they say that there's no one to root for, that there's no one that they're pulling for. A, do you think that a show needs that? And B, do you think that there's no one to root for on Succession or are there people that you're pulling for?

There's one person I'm desperately pulling for. Who's that? Cousin Greg. All right. He, to me, is the every man in the show. I'm pulling for him. I don't know what I'm pulling for him to do, but I'm pulling for him.

And, you know, I just don't think it's important as much as people think that it is. I think it's kind of something that people want from television shows, but not from life, you know. I look at my family. If I stepped back and just looked at my family, I'd be like, who's the person to pull for? Nah, it's not a lot of people in there. We're really kind of just fucking up and learning as we go.

So I think the interesting thing about the show is that the heroes and the villains, it vacillates from episode to episode and arc to arc, which I really enjoy. It's so interesting to look at an episode like this, Season 2, Episode 2, Folter, because we're, like, firmly in the middle of arcs for people. And so having watched Season 3, we can go back and see, like, some fatal errors that people make in this episode. There are moves that they make that it's like a horror movie, we were like, don't go down to the basement, man. Like, don't do this.

We know how this is going to pan out for you. And for me, I wouldn't say that I'm looking at anyone here, maybe not even Cousin Greg, because he makes some, like, you know, shady moves from time to time. But, like, there's no one here that I necessarily want to be friends with. There's no one here that I want to have, quote, unquote, win necessarily. But I empathize with all the kids as horrible as they can all be. There are moments because Logan is who he is, because you can see all of them turning in to their little kid version of themselves from time to time as they bump up against their dad. Like, you know, I don't want to infanalyze grown adult men doing like absolute bullshit the way that Kendall does in this episode or whatever.

But like, you can see how from their very start Logan has been working on them and poisoning them and all this sort of stuff. And so it's like, I can't help. I feel for them, even as I know that they're absolute destructive assholes. Do you know what I mean? What do you think? Yeah. So we're doing a different pod. We're talking and we're covering black television characters, black television dads in particular.

And we're doing James Evans, right, from Good Times. Yeah. People know Good Times. Yeah. It's an episode of Good Times where James Evans goes to the courthouse to confront the guy who shot JJ. JJ's James' son. You guys have never seen good times before.

You're not woke. That's just, that's it. That's it. You're not part of us. Go watch good times. Go watch good times. Wake up. Come back.

Okay. And then you're down. Then you're certified woke. Okay. They don't have to post a black square. We know. You could just post a picture of JJ. Don't do that.

But he goes down there. He wants to confront the boy. And then the boy is arguing with his mother. And his mother is like, hey, I wish you were never born, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she was like, if only your father were still alive. And he goes, if he was still alive, what would he be doing? Somewhere getting high, drinking, blah, blah, blah. And she slaps him.

And then he goes, he was never there for us. I never saw him. He turns around and he starts crying. This boy shot one of the main characters of the show right away. feel sorry for him. If somebody starts talking about the childhood trauma, it doesn't matter who they are standing right there. Right away, do you feel sorry for them? It is the single most relatable thing that any single person can display. Scars from their childhood. We all have you know. So it's hard to hate the kids in this. It's hard to

to expect better from them because you know that they were raised in a gladiator pit. Yeah. So there's a bunch of vipers, you know what I mean? And so there's this thing to where you don't want to humanize them. But the more fucking ruthless Logan is, the more you go, I wonder if he negotiated with them for their toys. And you're like, how else could they have been, you know? Yeah. Well, I mean, we've heard stories of, you know, Roman being put in a cage like a dog and then, you know, sent off to military school, I think.

Like, their, their upbringing was they had all the privileges, but, like, so much damage that comes along with those privileges. And, like, I think you mentioned performances. I think when we talk about succession, the performance we most talk about is Jeremy Strong. And there's something so incredible. This is his, like, zombie season, right? Where Kendall, like, this thing has happened at the end of season one. Kendall is, like, under his dad's thumb this season. And then has this, like, sort of big move that he makes at the end of the season.

But he just sort of shuffles through this whole season hollowed out and traumatized by knowing his life is over to a certain degree. He's got this line in this episode where he's like, dad sees everything, right? And, like, Shib doesn't know what he's talking about, but, like, we know what he's talking about in that moment. and the way that Jeremy Strong plays so little emotion and sucks you in any way, and the way in which she can so quickly become a little boy at the drop of a hat, because there's something like immature always about Roman, and there's something mostly invulnerable about Shiv except for key moments. But there's something about Kendall, about Jeremy Strong's performance,

where he can just sort of quickly on a dime remind you about the first. frightened kid inside of him at all times, that makes him one of the most watchable characters in the history of anything, I think. Yeah. There's a fragility there that is really captivating. Yeah. Throughout this whole episode, the first time I watched it, I kept waiting for him to break. He seemed like a piece of hollow porcelain, just kind of animated and walking around.

I kept waiting for him to break. but, you know, he was really already broken, you know? The working these, I mean, as I think about, as I watch these key episodes and think about season four and how this could all end, like the fact that we're barreling towards a conclusion, and I still don't know exactly sort of two big things about the show. A, what does it mean to win for these kids? Does it mean getting the company or does it mean breaking three from their father? Like, what is it, you know?

And then what does it take to win? I don't know the answers to those two questions. Or number three, will they win? Will anyone win? Will we feel like anyone has, quote, unquote, won at all? The working thesis I have that is the show I think I want to see, but Succession always is a way of surprising me. The show I think I want to see is the kids win by breaking the cycle of generational trauma,

by breaking away from their father. And every time that they wind up behaving like their father, as Kendall does in this episode with this ruthless move he makes with Volta and the unions and all sort of like that, that's them losing, right? Logan is trying to shape them in his image, but that's not, that's never the way, that's never the path to victory for them. What, like, what do you think about this idea of, like, is there a way to win? Will any of these kids win? And, like, what does that look like? So I don't think anyone's going to win.

I watched the fantastic HBO Murdoch documentary in its entirety. And we know what's going on here. The Murdox, the Red Soles, whoever it is. And the only way you could feel good to your point about this in actuality are the ones that had the nuts, the Cajonais, the ovaries, whatever, to step away from the... the whole thing.

It's like the end of war games. The only way to win is like not to play. Not to play. Yeah. Because you will never, ever, ever be your father. He built it. The best you could do is take care of it. Right.

So what's the point in giving up your soul? And then another thing is we know that this is not about the company. This is not about power. This is about them trying to make. their father love them. Dad's approval. Yeah. It's about them trying to get that from him.

And it's so crazy. The only way you ever get that from a character like Logan is to say, fuck you. And do something on your own. The only way you ever get that from a character like him is to be like, I, motherfucker, and do your own thing. Whether you're successful at it or not, the only way you get that That respect is by being your own person. And no matter how much, how hard they try to me, if we see that, they win.

But we won't, though. I don't think that'll happen. Maybe for Shiv. And that's what he says at the end of season three. He says, build your own pile, right? Build your own pile. Stop trying to feel entitled to the thing that I have built. Even though he has continuously told each one of them.

you're going to be the one I bring in. Season two is the seduction of Shiv's season, sort of, where, like, season one, Shiv starts on the outside of the family. She's doing her own thing. She's doing her political thing. She's at odds with, but occasionally working with her father, like all this sort of stuff. This is the, you know, in the premiere of season two, he says it's you. I'm going to bring you in.

It's going to be you. And this is the episode where she blows up her other life. and sort of takes that poison apple that he's offered her and goes in, even though they're not telling anyone yet that that's what she's doing. And this is the horror movie moment for me, where I was like, imagine if Shiv had just stuck with her life outside the family, her political life, her being fucking, like getting Gill elected and being chief of staff in Washington, D.C. Like imagine that that's Shiv's life rather than all the misery that we've seen her put her sell through trying to join the rat race for her father's approval the last, you know,

season and a half. And I'm like, it's like watching a slow motion car crash that's seen with her and Nate and Gill in the car where she's just like blowing up and getting herself fired on a dime. And she's even, even in this episode, when she's talking to Tom, which she hasn't told that she got this offer for, you know, a week since she got the offer. She's like, I don't know if I trust him. And I'm like, good. Follow his instincts. Do not trust him. And the plan that he's laying out for her, go to Shanghai, train on this person. This is exactly, exactly what he did to Kendall. So the fact that she is like willingly putting her into, herself into this thing that just very publicly broke her brother is one of the saddest mistakes I've seen a character make.

What do you think? It was, she almost felt captured because one of the things that led her, okay, what really led her to? make her decision was the fact that Logan tapped her and she wanted it, right? She wants that. But she was in what she felt like was a different space. And she saw that space still having to cower to her father. It doesn't seem like there's an escape plan for Shiv out of the life that she was raised to be a part of. to me, part of it seemed like her making a conscious decision

and part of it seemed like surrender. And that's sad. You know what I mean? That's sad. It's sad. It's one thing if you say, hey, I want to be the head of Waste Star Royco. I want to be the head of it. It's my family's business.

I want to be the top of the name on top of it. I want to do all of the Tim Cook. This is what we have coming this year. check it out in parks. You know, it's like, it's like, it's one thing if you want to do that. It's one thing if you've dipped your toe and it's another thing, should I say,

if you've dipped your toe in other waters and the temperature's the same. You're like, well, even if I do this, I'm still shivroy, right? Right. I'm still watching someone who might be president and is still potentially less powerful than my father. And so like, this guy has no nuts

or this guy that has no cahone, or whatever. I'm trying not to be a superhero or normally. Guys, there are limits to Vann's ability to communicate. So I'm sorry. I mean, as long as we agree that sisters are doing it for themselves. For themselves. Right, for themselves.

Wait, sisters are doing it by the, oh, no, it's for themselves. For themselves. It's for themselves. Sisters are doing it for themselves, okay? But this guy doesn't have the moxie. Let's just do it that way. He doesn't have the moxie to be something different at what she's always seen, which is somebody that has to kiss the ring of her dad.

she thinks, okay, if everybody's going to kiss the ring, then I might as well wear it. Yeah. And I mean, on the one hand, that is a correct assessment of the power dynamic. On the other hand, like, Logan's going to die and that empire is going to crumble. And she could be well situated to be in an extremely powerful position that she earned on her own. And something I love about, you know, the Shiv story. And there's like, there's so many tragic things about the Shiv story, some of our fine colleagues at the Ring think Shiv is an idiot.

I don't think she's an idiot. I think she's a tragic figure, but like... Why she got to be an idiot? I don't think she is. Who said that? Who said that? Name names. I'm not good.

Well, I think what people think is that she thinks she's smarter than she is. And I think that that's accurate, right? Like... That Shiv thinks she's smarter than what she is. They fucking all think they're smarter than what they are. Besides Logan. Logan is the only one who... Every single one of them,

Roman is... Roman is dense enough to send a pickpicked to his dad in a meeting, right? Right. They all think they're smarter than what they are. Yes. So what's so special about it? Connor thinks he can be president.

You know what I mean? Connor is the most like somebody in my family of anybody in the show. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about Zepbound, terseptite. The first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with. with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity

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Hilton, for the stay. Something I love sort of character design-wise in this season is that Shiven Season 1 has like this sort of long, slightly, you know, unstyled hair. when she shows at the beginning of the season, she has like this sort of, I wouldn't even call it like frumpy. It's sort of like an almost like hippie long sweater on and stuff like that.

And during that like the game episode that you're talking about, the beginning of the season, season one, this is a season where she like gets the power haircut, starts wearing the like power clothes and all sorts of stuff like that. She's just sort of like sleaking herself up

to fit into this family role that she has sort of obstinately been. on the outside of. And I just, I like her on the outside. And I want her to go, stay on the outside and build her own, build her own fucking pile.

Like, do that. You know what I mean? Because there's no winning inside of Logan's game, to your point. Let's talk about Tom and Greg. Tom starts his new role at our Fox News analog. And he meets Sidney Peach,

the woman who's like running ATN, who has to like deal with these various jokes. that Logan occasionally sort of slots into her departure. She's the Roger Ailes of the, yeah. I love this character. And to your point about, like, how does Succession do what it does? One of its superpowers is these fully formed marginal characters where we get Sydney in two scenes.

In two scenes in this episode, she's more fully a character than most characters can hope to be in, like, two seasons on a TV show. She's just like the writing is so sharp. The New York theater actors that they get for these roles are so good that you're just like, I immediately know who you are. I'm immediately interested in you. I'm not, I don't like you, but I am so interested in you.

You're running Fox News, which stands for everything I hate. And yet I am endlessly compelled by you and I want, I want more of you. What do you think about? You seem like a hero because you're outside of the lunacy that we're inundated with every single episode. Yeah. It seems like anybody who's. actually serious about something, we can fuck with him. Like, anybody

who actually like, you know that the Donald Trump analog that comes in season three, you know, that guy who says, Justin Kirk's character? Yeah, whatever. Like, that guy seems like he's more of the same of them. He's

a hollow, power-hungry fucking go-along to get-along, culture monster is what he seems like. So he seems like one of the family, but we don't like him. Anybody else, no matter how unscrupulous they are, when they come into this world,

if it seems like they're in some way outside of it, or they have a real motivation? Because these people don't even have a real motivation. They don't have any, in this episode, is perfect about that. So Greg, I don't want to be racist. It's like, nobody wants to be racist. Like, there's nothing that they actually believe in, except for excess, just more, right?

just more. So when people come in, like this lady, she's like, she cares about running the news in the right way. She probably believes

all of the shit that she's putting out there. And even though it sucks, it's better than being fake or vacuous, you know what I mean? So it's kind of, anytime there's a character like that,

like somebody real, Sinaiathan's character comes in. She's a lawyer. She's a fuck people up. I'm like, yeah, somebody real. You know what I mean? And that's what's,

what's so interesting about the show is that the villains are the heroes, the heroes are the villain. I still like them. Roman's my favorite. I love Roman. Roman's a sniveling idiot dummy, but I love Roman, man. I love him. I want to say what you said because I think there is this like interesting little mini thread in this episode about that idea of like principles and core values. That word is used a couple different times and a couple different threads. Gil uses it. Sidney uses it. There's that Tom and Gray conversation that you just cited, like, what are our principles? What are our core values? And there are people, Sidney and Gill, who claim to have core values.

And then there's Tom, who's like, principles. What the fuck do you mean principles? Like, what the fuck does that mean? You know? And so it's like, it's so interesting to have this group of people. And Tom is so interesting in that regard, because to your earlier point about Shiv being sort of just trapped by something, but not necessarily coming from the outside and wanting it.

Tom is that guy. Tom has joined the family actively. Tom actively wants us. We see him try to grapple with this idea that it's going to be his wife and not him in that top spot when he sort of thought their plan was that it would be him. He has that ambition that is divorced from. Like he does want Logan's approval. He wants the same thing that all the other kids want. But he also comes from this base of a really happy, healthy, wholesome family.

Matthew McFaeton has talked about this. The fact that Tom grew up in, like, Minnesota, and his mom is like a top lawyer, Minnesota, and that he loves his family and they love him. So he comes from this, like, sort of, he might be this, like, kiss-ass, cowtowing, like, comical figure. But there is a sort of baseline, oddly baseline dignity to him that comes from, when I know that I deserve better than this. You could kick Roman in the teeth. could literally punch him as Logan does at some point. And Roman's like, thank you, sir,

may I have another, right? You know? And Tom, it's just eating at him ever since his wedding to Shiv of like, I don't deserve to be treated this way. And we get a little spike of that in this episode when Roman and Tabitha and Shiv team up against him making fun of his suits at the dinner. And he's just like, fuck you. And sort of spikes out. You know what I mean? And we see it lash out in a big way at the end of season three and he makes his big move. But like, he has, has this thing that the Roy kids will never have, which is that baseline confidence of I grew up in a loving home, I know fundamentally I deserve better than this.

You know what I mean? Yeah. When I see him, I think I just want to turn Anton Chagor on him. Like, well, you married into it? You married into it. You know what I mean? I think I love that.

I say, oh, you're married into it. It's like, yeah, you married the guy, they got a gas station. Leave him alone. But it's so oddly satisfying when he finally one-ups them because they ragged all this man. Yeah. And he is not a victim because he ragged all's Greg, right? So they ragdoll this man.

They ragdoll him. And he is so pathetic. He seems like somebody who's been injected into this world and is clearly in over their head, right? like clearly in over their head. So there's a vulnerability to the character and to the portrayal of the character. Like he's only able to maintain

this veneer of invincibility for so long. Then he gets home and he just wants to hang out with his wife and have sex and be a regular couple. But there is no regular couple. He wants to go from Manhattan back to Minnesota because he's actually put on it, putting on an act, and this is the way they really are.

Right. So when her and I, well, excuse me, her and I, I'm imagining myself married to Shiff, which is not that bad of a thing. You know, when you think about it, that could work. That would be so funny, me on the show. I wouldn't even give a fuck. We're like, Shiff, how much we're going to get? Let's say we don't do nothing.

How was you going to? Probably a billion. Fuck them. Like, seriously. Let's take 150. and really go make a Mr. terrific movie. You know what I'm saying?

Whatever. No, you really want to marry Roman. Roman's the filmmaker. You and Roman can go make like perfect film. It's like something more than what they have. There's so much at their fingertips that they don't really know what's going on. Anyway.

So back to Tom. Yeah. He has a conversation with him. They decide it's going to be him. He expects her, his wife. to stick to that. He thinks she meant that. Yeah.

She comes from a world where you say whatever you have to say to have somebody move on to the next sentence, move on to the next sentence, move on to the last sentence, and then sign their name. Yeah. So it was funny that he was actually trying to, and the show is so well-acted, he's actually trying to negotiate his feelings while he's being happy for her. Wow. But we said it was going to be me. Like, what?

Oh, a whole week ago, he said that. You haven't been, it's just, it's amazing. Yeah. I like you mentioning this sort of ragdalling because something that the show does so well for that big moment at the end of season three to feel so earned, they slow build it for a really long time. And each of those three kids, let's see Connor out of it, right? Each of those three kids who get screwed in that final scene in season three,

Roman, Kendall, Schiff have ragdolled something. on someone on the other side in order to get there. So for Shiv, it's Tom. For Kendall, it's Greg. Because he brings Greg in and we see him do it in this episode, right? I'm getting you an apartment. But then I'm going to throw a party in your apartment. Call myself fucking techno-gatsby, which is one of the duchiest things.

Literally anyone has ever said in their life. You know, make you get Park Coke for me, like all this sort of stuff like that. Treat you like shit. But I expect you to feel grateful that I have made you my, like, right hand. my like whipping boy, right? And Shiv feeling the same way about Tom. Well, I dain to marry you. So surely you will always be loyal to me.

And then Roman doing that with Jerry to a certain degree. You know what I mean? Like Jerry kind of wanted to help Roman. Like, you know, they have that connection. But she's like, here are the things you need to do. And when he ignores her advice and fucks up again and again, she's like, never mind. You're unstable. And so all three of those people are over on Team Logan by the end of season three

because of the way these kids don't know how to play with their toys at all. Yeah, absolutely. And the fact that they're unsurious. Yeah. That there's always something clouding their judgment. So I do want to say something about Kendall. And this is maybe something that says more about me than it does about him. Okay.

I absolutely love the scene where he double-crosses the Valter staff. Let's talk about it. I don't know why. Family thin comes out as anti-union. I hear you. I'm not anti-union. You know what I mean? I know.

Just sitting, watching him do that so emotionally. Yes. Like, just he is, he gets spit in his, the guy spits in his face and not even that moves him. There's not even any anger left. There's only honesty. That's the most, one of the. one of the most honest scenes I'm doing this.

I have no emotion. Why? My dad told me to. That's it. That's why all of you lose your jobs. That's why all of you lose your jobs. That's why all you got to go live back at home with your moms. Your loans are fucked up.

The whole nine. And that is such accurate and crisp criticism of the way things fucking work in this world that we've created sometimes, Joe. Yeah. I can't get over how. breathtaking the scene is. It's so good. It's so, again, like, because for most of the episode, Kendall is fighting for Walter, right,

and fighting for it because it was his idea. And obviously, like, Lawrence, the character of Lawrence has been, like, at odds with Kendall the entire time that, you know, since the first episode, right? Just saying absolutely nasty, nasty shit, Kendall hates Kendall. And honestly, if I met Kendall in real life, a Murdoch, a Redstone, a Trump. I would hate him, right? I would. So, like, I should be on Lawrence Asiaba.

Because the show is brilliant the way it is, I'm like, I'm like, don't talk shit to Kendall. That's a broken boy. Protect him. So I think that, you know, he's fighting for it. He's doing the work. He's hard-nosing it. He's doing all the work. He's going through all the paperwork.

And Roman just comes in and chaotically says, like, fuck them. They drink soy lattes. Like, you know, fuck these woke cubs. like all, you know, all the shit that Roman says. And Logan goes with that, right? And so then Kendall has to just sort of turn on his yield. And like the fact that he just coldly destroys all these people's lives. You know, Lawrence is one thing, but all these workers who were trying to unionize. And he's like, hey, guys, we're going to figure it out for you. And then the way that he like talks about their severance, right? And he's like, you publish your little

videos, you get nothing. Like, it's just like brutal, brutal. And not only that, he tricked them into giving up potentially more ideas on the way out. It is villainy at its finest. And there was some part of me that for some reason liked it. I don't know why. Maybe it was because I felt for him,

or maybe it was because I didn't think that he had it in him to pull a move like that. You know, so, you know, it was some part of me, I watched this again expecting to feel differently than I felt the first time. But the first time, it was almost as if this show makes you into Logan. Like you want to see more from the kids, and you want to see them do something that's unexpected and out of you. your, I guess, expectation of them. Yeah.

And he did that. So I was not, I'm never going to be with it, but I was kind of like, okay, well, yeah, he got it done. I really do think that's part of the genius of the show is that, like, it makes you kind of root for two conflicting things at the same time. And that's why it's always interesting, right? Because on the one hand, I'm like, Kendall, get out, get out from under your father, go with Stewie and do something else or whatever it is. Like, get out. there's no future for you playing Logan's game. At the same time, when he plays Logan's game and he has a mini victory,

you're like, that's my boy. You know what I mean? It's just sort of like it's what he's doing here, playing his father, being as brutal as his father would be, is a loss for him fundamentally, like for his soul or whatever. But in the metrics of the game of the show, it feels like a win. And that's why I keep coming about, you know, Sean and I, when we covered this last season, Sean and I have different definitions.

of winning. And so that made it really interesting in terms of, like, how we view each character arc through three episodes, right? Like through each episode. Sean is just like, well, I like it when people win. So I want this to happen. And I'm like, yeah, well, I like it when the winning means something nourishing for them emotionally.

And it doesn't, you know? Joe, what does fantasy know about winning? He's a Jets fan. He doesn't know anything about winning. Like, this show what it does, seriously. This show it kind of redefines what the win is. Right. That's what's so fascinating.

It's open-ended, right? Yeah. Even when they bring in Alexander Scarsgar, which, by the way, I want you guys to pay attention to what Alexander Scarsgaard is doing in his career. He's... Post-Tarzan.

Post-Tarzan, which... Let me ask you. I watch the movie, and it wasn't bad. I'd be honest with you. I don't like the idea. of Tarzan for myriad, obvious reasons. But I watched the movie, it's not a bad movie.

Alexander Scarsgaard is carving out a career playing quirky, interesting characters, and he's really taking a lot of chances. I have a lot of look, he could have been sexy vampire man forever, but he's not doing that. He's really not.

Did you ever see, this means war? Yes. I love that movie. It's good, good-ass movie. He's a great movie. The North weird, good stuff. This latest one, I wish I wouldn't have watched it. But you got to swing, right? You got a swing as you go, yeah.

Woo! Yeah. My God. Yeah. And by the way, she's the most terrifying woman on the planet. Yeah, gosh. Get out of here. It's insane.

Anyway, so when they bring that character in, it's like they've introduced another villain or another sort of test for the kids and your desire, your need for them to pass a test to in some way rise

to the occasion, almost supersedes everything else that you would think about them morally. You just want to see them do something right or do something good, you know? Yeah, and I just want to see them do something right outside of their father's roles, but what sucks

is that ultimately, like, ultimately, like, this is what, when Brian Cox talks about the end of season two, right, when Kettle makes his big move at the end of season two. And Logan smiles, has that weird little smile. So even when they're not playing his game or even when they're whatever, he still wins because he also wants that. Like, that's what he wants to is for them to build their own pile. So I am very curious to see how I'm going to feel at the end of all this.

But fundamentally, end of the day, and you and I are both younger siblings, right? Is that right, man? Yeah. At the end of the day, the thing that I'm always rooting for with these kids is that they figure out a way to work together and you see little – because there's always these scenes where all of them get in a room and they almost figure out a way to work together because only, I think, together can they break free out of their father's bullshit? And in this episode, you see a couple things.

Like you see Roman and Kendall are at all of each other all episode, but you see how their different approaches could complement each other, right? Roman takes the staffers out to drinks and finds out about the union thing. Kendall does a forensic work on the paperwork and finds out something else. And so, like, together, those things, that's such a powerful team, but they're never working together. They're working against each other for dad's approval. Or you see that scene where Shiv comes out onto the balcony at Connor's party to talk to

Kendall. And that's when she says the thing of, like, you don't, you have trouble finding a middle ground between worshiping dad and trying to kill dad, right? And the middle ground, I think, is. not giving a fuck what dad thinks of you. And there are all these little moments with Shiv and Kendall, you know, where she gives him a hug, where they connect in a way where you're like,

I want these two on the same team. I really want them on the same team. And so that's something that I'm really thinking about as I go into season four and in the shape of the show is like, what will it take? Will it take what happened in the end of season three, all three of them being, you know, godfathered out of the position at the end of season three

for them to finally Voltron into a force that could rival their father, you know? Yeah. Logan was great at building companies. Yeah. Terrible at building families. Yes. Right? And the central question of the show is

what do the kids build? Do they build company? Do they build family? Do they build themselves? Right. This episode kind of gets you there by, you know, we broke Kendall down, we built him back up again,

we thought in one episode he was fucking dead. And now we get to see. And that's kind of the, that's the central question of the show. And I don't think they're going to bail us out. I think we'll get kicked in our asses by what ends up happening. I wouldn't be surprised. We get kicked in the ass or the teeth with by the show.

All right. Well, that, I think, does it for our look at season two episode two, Volter. I don't know precisely what the plan is for the rest of the Hall of Fame episodes, but we will be covering the new season very soon. Really excited for that. Van, where else can people find you? Street corners, various street corners around us.

No, I'm just showing. Higher Learning with Van Lathen and Rachel Lindsay, Rachel Lindsay and Van Lathen, Tuesdays and Fridays. The Midnight Boys, PooPue, Ring of Verse, prestige TV podcast based upon any television show that comes out that I feel like I like. Uh-huh. Yeah, you can find me on the...

on the Ringerverse here on the Presti's TV podcast feed over in Childlike content every week. This wonderful episode of a podcast was produced by the great Sasha. Ashall, if you want, Pedy's about disc golf. That's who you should reach out to. Sasha, she knows everything about it. She should get a one-off. We should do ringer one-offs where somebody just gets to come on there and talk their shit about shit that they know. Yeah.

She got on here and me and her got into disc golf and now I'm looking up. She can cite players. Like, she knows the whole. He knows the disc golf world. Yeah, so shout out to Sasha. All right, we'll see you soon. Bye. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright creatures.

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