The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Succession’ S3, E4 Precap

Episode Date: November 5, 2021

Chris and Wos are back to preview Episode 4 of 'Succession' Season 3. They discuss some key moments in Episode 3, compare the president in ‘Succession’ to U.S. presidents in real life, and speculate on what will happen in Episode 4 of Season 3.Hosts: Chris Ryan and Wosny Lambre Production Assistant: Jonathan Kermah Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

60 songs that explain the 90s are back and in their final stretch. The Ringer's music critic Rob Harvilla curates and explores 60 iconic songs from the 90s that define the decade. Rob is joined by a variety of guests to break it all down as they turn back the clock. Check out 60 songs that explain the 90s exclusively on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies.

Sweet Green's new raps of guys. you. Real ingredients? Zero shortcuts. Everything you love in one hand. Think green goddess chicken. Garlic aoli. Crumbled bacon. Corn salsa. 40 grams of protein. Made to keep up with whatever comes next. New sweet green wraps hit different. Order now at order.com. Hello and welcome to the ringer Prestige TV pod. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm joined as always on Fridays, but big waz-was. What's up, man? I'm chilling pinky. We're just going through a totally standard office rationalization over here. Waz and I are here to preview the next episode of Succession,

will be episode four coming at us. We're going to do it entrance survey style as usual. But before we got into our usual round of questions, Waz, I thought we could just do a little gut check, one third of the season in, three episodes in. How are you feeling about this season? I'm loving it. I think it's as good as it's ever been.

Even this episode where, you know, they're furthering the plot, so to speak. I know we completely dumped on plots as a concept and entertainment, like a few episodes ago. But they're furthering that part, you know, doing that part of the house cleaning, the business of what a show has to accomplish. But what they're doing with the siblings on in episode three is really cool and really fun. Tell me why. So the scene where Kendall sees Shiv out and they're having this conversation where they're always talking past each other.

I thought Kendall had a moment of clarity where he was just, he could see through, completely see through Shiv's bullshit because he's looking at a mirror. He's like, wow, like, I used to be that. Like, you just got brought into the company, and now you're doing the dirty work, you're doing Dad's bidding. You're putting on a mask for this company because you think this is what you have to do to advance.

And like he sees right through shit because he's like, that was me. I'm literally looking at myself in the mirror through my sibling. And I just love what like his face, his smile. He's like, like if I hadn't already done this job before, I maybe wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't recognize the bullshit that you're feeding me. But because I did that job for so long, I can immediately see your angles. I thought that was just so cool and effective. Yeah, that was a really interesting scene.

because in some ways, I mean, their performances are so nuanced, but you could see that, that they kind of had that same sort of vulnerability with one another that they did at points during season two.

And then to see where the episode winds up, you know, where like Schiv's spitting into Kendall's date book is essentially like the, the Michael Fredo Kiss in Cuba and Godfather, too, or something. That kind of leads me

into the first question I had for our entrance survey, which is, what song would you play to disrupt your siblings' town hall presentation? You know, because I'm a first generation, Haitian American, and so are my siblings, I would definitely play a Haitian record. Okay.

And I would play a record by the former president of Haiti. His name is Michelle Martelli, who if you don't, if you guys don't know, it would be like if Eminem became president. Like, meaning like, as far as the content of his music, this guy was making really lewd music about sex and philandering and, like, really scandalous shit. And he became the president of the freaking country after having this history as, like, one of the most transgressive artists in the history of Haitian music. And so it would definitely be a Michelle Martelli song

and be probably the song called I Don't Care, where he is just saying, the craziest shit you could say on the record in Haitian Creole. So all my Haitians out there, you guys will appreciate that pick. I would probably go with, if I was Kendall, and I had to pick a different grunge song to play for Shiv, I might have gone with Daughter by Pearl Jam. But if it was just me, I'm an only child,

so I don't have to deal with these things. But I would probably play, I don't know, I would play something really obnoxious, like Santana's Town. I'm back. Maybe I would play the Lloyd Banks version of it from like an old Lloyd Banks mixed. I would just play something really New York and obnoxious just to get somebody's attention. I thought that was a great scene.

How nobody noticed everybody putting Sonos speakers everywhere was pretty interesting. But like I thought it was like a very, very good scene. Well, you know what's so funny about that is that I was confused. I was like, wait, so like Kendall did that, right? Like, because I wasn't sure at first, like, the way they set it up, it was, it was like, okay, is Kendall coming to crash the board meeting? Or is he just going to make people just to generally make people as uncomfortable as possible? Or is this an employee at the company like, this is bullshit. Fuck this.

Nobody needs to be here to listen to it. Like, who did this? And then when you realize this Kendall and then, you know, oh, Logan is such. such a fucking, he is just such an opportunistic bastard when he goes to shit. Like, see? Told you. I told you this guy was a dickhead. Mind you like, yo, you were sending this dude to prison, you know, on the season finale of last season.

Like, you were sending your son to prison. Kendall playing some damn speakers at her first little corny-ass press conference doesn't even fucking compare. But like, when she comes up to him, it's like, I told you. Trying to tell you. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny because like when this,

this episode I think actually warranted and demanded or rewatch them more than any of the others. So like when me and Andy do our podcast, we go, you know, we watch the episode once we do the watch on Sunday nights. And that's usually like, you're just kind of like letting it sink in.

And then when I rewatch it to talk to you, I noticed two things. One was like obviously a little bit more care put into the like, you can see Kendall say to his like right hand, to his like bag man. He's like, go get me. I got a shopping list for you.

So that's obviously like, I guess the speakers and then when Shiv comes back into the, so it's a little bit more clear. But there was a lot of little points in this episode, especially between Tom and Greg that I wanted to ask you about

because that's where a lot of the internet chatters come from about about this season. And just Tom and Greg are obviously always being played for laughs. Like they are really like comic relief in a lot of these scenes. But I think that they're kind of, um,

their precarious legal situations, the both of them, could be like the engine to a lot of movement. So the two questions, I had two questions for you here. Should Kendall have bought Greg that watch? Like,

is that just like a fuck you too many? Is that like a not tending to the flowers kind of situation? And then who did Tom meet? Because maybe that's just like his pal or whatever. I'm not saying that there's like some sort of secret identity going on here.

But in the flow of an episode, you can get caught up and all the one-liners and the pathos of the characters. But there's actually some, like, movement going on here. There's, like, a little bit of, like, Tom and Greg both meeting with lawyers. Tom saying that he's with Waystar, but meeting, like, calling independent lawyers. Like, what did you make of all that stuff? I mean, Tom, yo, that scene with him and Shiv.

Yeah. We're like, it's just like, wow, Shiv, you were just a bad person. I have a Shiv question. Yeah, that was like, that was. She is a bad person. And I think they're setting up Tom understanding that his wife's a motherfucker. And you see him setting it up where he's doing the pushback that he would have just never done early on in season one where he's withholding affection. And he's doing the things that people tend to do in relationships like who's got the upper hand in a relationship at any given moment.

Whereas Tom never used to play that game. We see him playing that game more and more now. It's just all this talk around Tom becoming a witness for the government or falling on a sword or something involving the law. That's what I feel like he's moving towards. And like just watching his wife be like, yeah, I mean, you know, no, that's crazy. But it'd be genius. If you did completely take the fall. To get a win from a no win.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, my dad would be indebted to you. I would still get to be, you know, in charge of the company, plus you'd still be my lackeys or you're closer. I was just like, holy moly. But I think Tom is understanding that this is what's happening and that he, more than anybody else,

needs to be looking at over his own interests, obviously more so than even his wife, who was just like so power, thirsty. Like, she's just willing to sacrifice any and everything to do so. It's kind of crazy. So I feel like both him and Greg, but Greg, you know, Greg the egg showed us that like, if it's one thing he ain't about to do is go to the pokey. And so I know Greg is, he's like, listen, y'all not going to have me and nobody's prison, okay? So I think both of those guys are like, look, they're probably going to be on the side

of the law. That's what it feels like they're setting up anyway. There's only so many seats on the lifeboat when it comes to the Roy family. You know what I mean? And eventually you got to get your own, you get your own transportation. I thought that the, the Shiv reaction to Tom's thing, as you said,

because that was my next question was basically, um, what degree, like what percentage of what she was saying was sincere versus that was exactly the outcome I wanted. And I'm going to pretend to be like touched and surprised that you're offering this,

this big to become the beating post. Because Shiv, for her, this is like, I get rid of a, guy who's maybe not like on the same page with me sexually, not in the same page with me about how I want this relationship to go. You know what I mean? Now all of a sudden I'm asking for his affection when before it was the other other way around. And I just thought like that exactly how

you just outlined it was exactly right. Like she starts, she basically does the like, wow, what a great idea that I have incepted you with and I'm totally down for you to have in the first place. The funny thing is it felt like when I was watching it, it felt like she was coming to the realization in real time where like dismisses is like, come on, we can't send you to jail. And then she's like, wait, sending this dude to jail would solve a lot of my problems.

It's like, and you could see her being like, well, I still have to pretend that I'm his wife and I care about him deeply. I felt, I didn't feel like she had intercepted. I feel like she was realizing it as we were. In real time. In real time. She's like, come on, we can't. I mean, like, even me as cynical as I am

and as lusty and greedy as I am, even I, Chavon Roy knows not to send my husband to jail on behalf of my father and his horribly corrupt company. But then she's like, well, that might be the smartest thing I ever came up with. You know, and to watch that in real time was just, whoa. Like, you know, because there was a point in earlier seasons where, you know, it felt like they were setting up shift to be the most just, most trustworthy, the most independently competent of all of the siblings.

Like it felt like they were setting her up to be that. And she is now devolved into just depravity. She is just as depraved as her father, if not more, at this point. Because even Logan's like, you know, I can't do that to my wife. You know, it's going to cost me to get it back. But I can't just, you know, I can't embarrass my wifey. I can't do certain type of things like these. This woman has been there for me.

I kind of need her as a backbone and support. Like even he's like, there's certain things I can't do to my significant other way. She was like, no, everybody could get it. Every single person. That was actually that leads me right into what I wanted to talk about next was the scene between Logan and Shiv where he says you will not find a piece of paper that makes you ashamed of me. And whether that's enough to like absolve Logan and Shiv's eyes. Because the question here is like you were saying, she's sort of propped up earlier in this in the series as because

she's working for evas, she's working for this like progressive candidate. And, you know, she's got her foot in the sort of other side of the political spectrum. Whether or not, like, that's her, that's her sort of true north or whether her true north is just really like, incredibly selfish and personal absolution and have, being able to be like, have plausible deniability about certain things. It's like, is it higher morality or is it simply like corporate morality slash personal survival? It's hard to buy any idea of higher morality for Shiv at this point. Especially after some of the things that she did later, you know, like, yeah, meeting that woman at the playground. That's what I was about to say, like, talking this woman out of doing something that she, the woman was doing it for literally moral reasons. Like, just off principle, off general principle.

No, what these people did was ridiculous. It was dangerous. It was criminal. It was horrible. and I want them to pay and I want them to pay a public price for it and she's like well what about money you know and like

and the way that she does it where it's like I'm a woman I understand and she's completely manipulating the situation to her own ends and yeah I don't think there's any argument that could be made that Shiv cares about anything outside of her own aims

whatever those aims might be at the time right Like, the show smartly positioned her, you know, as this person's like, oh, I'm self-made. I do what I do outside of the family business. And the guy that I'm trying to help empower is just like do-gooder, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, they smartly set it up that way to throw us off dissent. But that game was just part of another part of the same thing, right? Like, trying to get a guy elected for president, that, like, that puts you at the seat of power.

Absolutely. You know? And this is no different from that. It's all the same. It just was set up beautifully for us to, you know, us bleeding hard lips to be like, oh, look, she's, you know, back in some lib and it's going to be great. And no, she just wants to be powerful. That's all she wants.

I thought that the whole episode was basically, like, Shiv just, the reaction to, like, to what happens with what Kendall does to her town hall is basically her being upset that she chose the wrong opportunity. She was offered the interview that Roman does where he's like, yeah, I went trout fishing with my dad. It was really meaningful. And that was obviously like a low profile opportunity. But she does

take the town hall from Jerry or essentially say like, I should do the town hall and it blows up in her face. So I think there's just as much like embarrassment as there is like fury at Kendall. You mentioned the political candidate that she was working for. We got our first kind of like taste of the

white house in this show, for the most part, with the character of Michelle, who's kind of like this, this Kelly Ann Conway type character. But I was wondering if you would give him much thought to who this president is, or if you can get a sense of like,

is this kind of like a reimagined Reagan because he's the California Raisin? Is he supposed to be a Trump standing? He's obviously somebody that Logan's News Network helped to the White House. Do you think much about who this president is? He's definitely not Trump. Um, like, because a Trump president in this world would be more forward facing about the things that are happening.

He would have already fired off a tweet. He would have already maybe done a rally. He would have already, he would have already maybe called in to Fox and friends or TSN and friends. You know, like he would have, a Trump in this world would have already done this, you know, That's why it doesn't feel like Trump. A Trump in this world would have made his feelings known publicly. Like, because if anything, you could say whatever you want about the former president. But it wasn't hard to suss out where he stood on the major issues of the day.

Like, nobody was confused about, you know, what's his policy on China? Yeah, what are his takes? Yeah. You know, what does he think about critical race theory? What does he think about the corporate tax rate? Like, these things weren't secret, you know. And so that's why I don't think it's Trump. I think if you, you know, Reagan would make more sense because this guy's just like, no,

I'm like literally, really expertly working this politics angle, you know, and I'm going to make it work for me no matter what. I think the Trump of this world would have been like, all right, you know, show me how loyal you are to me and I'll back you. Right. Prove to me your loyalty because that's all Trump cared about is like, who would. was willing to kiss the ring and who wasn't? Like, it's not really a matter of principle or this guy's, it's like, did he kiss the ring? Okay, he's down. Did he not?

Okay, get him out of here. I think my favorite line of this of the episode was when Michelle was like that, you know, we feel like your coverage has not been like exactly truthful and he's just like, it could get a whole lot fucking worse. Exactly. Exactly. And again, Logan, understanding, all right, I have this thing that. I can work in my favor.

Can y'all do this other thing? Right. Which he positions as, oh, just do nothing. But, you know, in political terms, like, I think about somebody like Barack Obama, who so many people I know love and cherish, but, like, you know, it's a black mark that he didn't send him to his Wall Street guys to prison during the financial crisis, right? So doing nothing can be seen as a black mark on you, right? So you're telling me, like, all right, just don't touch me.

Like that's that's an action. Inaction, it can be an action in certain ways. So Logan trying to position is, look, I'm just saying like, I'm not asking you to like actually like do anything. I'm just telling you to fall back. But don't get mad when I stand up for myself. Exactly. Don't get mad when I defend myself.

Yeah, you know, I don't really know what to make of this, but I did find it interesting that there was a symmetrical line in Michelle's conversation with Logan. She says to him, we have the same interests here. and that's like sort of their way to negotiate and that's exactly what Shiv says to Kendall at the journalist charity function or they're kind of going back and forth

and she's like, look, I think we have the same. When he's just like, I apologize for being a little extra at my, at Rob's house, she's just like, we have the same interests here. Whether or not that's the case, it's interesting to just get the show's perspective on how negotiations ultimately work, but I don't know what it means yet.

Yeah, and you know, it was funny about that. It's like, in both cases, that wasn't true. Yeah. I guess that's what's to take from it. We don't have the same interests here. In the case of the president of this show, it's like, I'm known to be affiliated with you and they got you deads to rights. No, we don't have the same interests.

But I'm self-interested in distancing myself from you, you know, and not helping you and actually grabbing the shovel and throwing some dirt on you is actually in my interest, right? And when it comes to Kendall and Shiv, like, no, you've thrown your lot in with dad, and I'm doing this other thing. We're diametrically opposed to one another. That's the funny thing about both people saying that.

It's like, no, we're at odds. Like, obviously here. I guess the next batch of questions I have are all Kendall related because that was the other half of this show. Andy and I talked a little bit about this and I kind of wanted to get your take on it. The show this season I think is a little bit more attuned to or sensitive

about or it was at least depicting the way the outside world sees these the Roy characters. Like I don't remember you know, you would see things like in the background on TVs in people's offices in the first two seasons about how Logan was being seen

and obviously he gets like I think paint thrown at him in the second season at one point. There's obviously obviously like a little bit of that, but not as explicit as like the way the character's disbehavior is being dictated by that. And that's really the case for Kendall where he's obviously he's becoming a little bit of a slave to the timeline right now where he's just like playing good, good tweet, bad tweet in the limo. And he's, uh, very concerned by the Zway's characters like monologue and like getting roasted and wants to go and like kind of like play on her

field, but also like accru some sort of credibility. Is this a welcome turn from the show for you? I think it's always important to acknowledge, well, not acknowledge, I shouldn't say that. I think the show uses different, I guess, plot devices to show you the differences between the characters. Take Roman and Kendall, for instance. It's just like, we, you and I both know that Roman could not give a fuck what people on Twitter was saying.

Yeah. And he never would, right? Like, he has a keen understanding of just like, look, in the game of life, these people can cry about whatever they want on Twitter. I'm winning. They can say whatever they want about me. But in the game of life, I'm rich, I'm powerful. I'm winning, okay?

Like, he's acutely aware of who matters and who doesn't, like, who are, you know, sort of the plebs and who are part of the courtier, right? Yeah. I'm part, I ain't no damn plebe. I'm not a sharecropper. I'm not proletariat. I'm the winner. You know, remember when he bet the kid a million dollars that he couldn't get a base hit? Yes.

He's like, they're losers. And I know this. They lost. I win all the time. So they show you like the differences in the siblings. Like they're trying to show you like Kendall is so sensitive and he does care about what people have to say about him. And, you know, that's what makes it.

it's like a gift in the curse. It's what makes him way more empathetic than some of his family members, but it's also why he can't get anything done. Yeah. You know, like he is so slavishly devoted to the thoughts of people as it pertains to him that he can't do it, you know. But the show does a good job of explaining, like, these are the differences in these siblings, right?

Like, ultimately, they're all fucked up in their own way because of this heart. way that they were raised. But these are the lines of demarcation. Yeah, it's almost like Rome. You're right. I think Roman has like the most comfort level with like his own like depravity. Like he's just like I'm essentially having sex with my mother or I'm like sexually attracted to my mother.

I'm essentially like a deplorable dirtbag who blows up satellites and covers it up. But Shiv and Kendall still want like that. They want to be blessed by the outside world. They want they want to be cool. or write while they're doing what they're doing. And Roman in some ways doesn't really give a shit about that. Yeah, and, you know, man, it's so interesting too because part of the discourse around the show

is about the unlikeability, quote-unquote, of the characters, which I kind of think is besides the point. I think people miss the point of the show when they do that. I think the point of the show was to show you that these people are products of their own environments. It's something that I take to a lot of people when people ask me about my own sort of worldview or political beliefs and things like that.

You know, because I know a lot of black people, for instance, right, who are feel really resentful of white people. And I always say, I'm like, I don't, I'm not because I don't know that I would have been a better white person. Right? Like, I don't know that I would have been a better white, I've been better at being white. Maybe I would be some shitty frat boy,

financed bro, like, depending on my freaking upbringing. Like, I don't know that I would have been saved from being some deplorable, horrible person. And related to that, I don't know that I would be a better Roy. Like, who's to say I wouldn't be the connor of this situation? Like, when you think about how people are socialized and how you're brought up, I don't know that that would have been the case, right? Like, I don't, that's why I don't have judgment for the characters. It's obvious that the environment that they've grown up in and the world and the systems that create the conditions under which they're grown up in have a lot to do with the kind of people they've become. Yeah.

And so, you know, that's what I think about when I watch Roman. Like, I still like him because there is a certain level of, at least he's self-aware about how ridiculously fucked up he is. Yeah, I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but I think that it would be, This is essentially like if Game of Thrones was only about the Lannisters, right? Like it's like, it's like, but that being said, like, I found the lannisters to be the most compelling part of Game of Thrones. Like I was most interested in how fucked up they were, yet still modeling not relatable behavior, but recognizable behavior. And like, their frailties and their like kind of, uh, their demons were very like, oh, like, that's almost more interesting than will this boy become a king. You know?

Well, listen, Chris, like, and I know you can relate to this. The first time watching Jamie and Seriously have a romantic moment after you realize that their siblings and being like into it, like, you have to ask yourself certain questions, right? Like, what the fuck is wrong with me? Like, you want art to do that to you, to force yourself to ask these tough questions of ourselves, of the world, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, of course.

To me, that's what makes the show is, you know, you find yourself like understanding these horribly depraved people. You find yourself like being like, well, shit, man. Should I be judging Elon Musk for being the worst person in the history of the universe? I don't know. You know, like, I watch, I see the headline where he's like, I'll solve world hunger if the UN can prove that they can do it. Yeah.

He was like, open your, he says it's a world food program guy. He was like, open the books. And that dude was like, yeah, well, for sure. Let's do it. And then Elon was just like mute thread. You know, it's like when you encounter these things in the world, because there's a way to consume all the things that happen around us and just walk around being just pissed about it.

Like if you want to, you can let the horrors of our society consume. you and make you pissed or you can, you know, do something else. Like, watch this session and laugh at the dick jokes. Whenever I would see Searcy and Jamie together, man, I would just be like, I don't know what it means, but it's provocative. Exactly. I loved it. I was like, oh, they're back together.

Oh, my goodness. A reunion. Wow. Like, this might be the truest of all the love stories because they've loved each other since birth. Yeah. It's so sick. But it's the most fun stuff to grapple with, right?

And that's what I think about the Kendall and Roman and Shiv's stuff. It's like, man, these people are, you know, deeply damaged for sure. But it's about the world that's been created around them. So speaking of that world that's been created around them, It seemed like this was the first concrete signal to the viewers that Kendall's like manslaughter charge is still in play. You know, when when Logan obviously sends the security guard who cleaned up Kendall's accident into

Kendall's office to be like, I know you, you know, like obviously didn't deter him from playing Nirvana over his sister's town hall. Maybe even provoked him to doing that. what did you make of the sort of the ghost of Kendall's past coming up? I think it speaks to the weak position that Logan is in. I think his position is so weak because I think it was the first episode

where, you know, somebody, I forget who was saying something to Logan, like, yeah, we got dirt on this dude. We can blow this dude up. His wife would say that. She was just like, maybe it's time to like play the ultimate card here. He says like, some bombs burn you, you know? Exactly. It's like, well, I'm the one who covered that up.

At the end of the day, I'm part of that now. Like, by having helped him get rid of and get over that situation, I'm now part of the responsible parties. I can't actually play that hand, right? But he's still because he's Logan and he's always working every single angle. He's still, like, whatever, as a threat, it's always worth it to threaten, you know, a guy who's that mentally unstable. and substance dependent.

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we should do that as an intimidation tactic. But it's already been said before. Like, I can't really use it. You know, that's what I thought. I was like, that's so interesting that they did that because they already showed us that Logan understands. That's not actually something that he can use against Kendall because it would so muddy his own name.

It's fake leverage in that way. Exactly. And ultimately, that's not how it sends Kendall into a spiral. It's what Shiv does. It's Shiv taking out that. making this statement about Kendall's treatment of women and drug problems and everything else. Is this, and I guess this is my last question, is there a point of no return for this family? Because I think one of the things about the show is that people are incredibly cruel to one another,

but then find themselves at lunch the next day. You know, like there's all these reasons for them to gather and gather. And after three episodes, we haven't had one of those standalone, let's send the Roy family on this trip or it's Thanksgiving or whatever. and make them sort of talk to one another on a boat. I bet, if anything, we're going to probably see them scattered for the next couple of episodes

because, you know, obviously Adrian Brody is going to be on the next episode. Which I can't wait for. I can't wait for that either. But, I mean, for you, like, do you think that this show has got the, not the discipline, but maybe the sort of the backbone to be like,

yeah, we're going to keep Jeremy Strong and Saras Nook out of scenes with each other because they're beefing? Or do you think that it's just like, no, this is like, this is just kind of how they interact. And even if she spits in his date book, it's still like they're going to see one another soon. You know what's interesting, though, it's, they're going to have to make a choice in the

sense that like when Shiv tries to bully the other two brothers into also signing the declaration that Kendall is a loose cannon, loony drug addict, womanizer, woman an abuser, all of these things, and make it public. That's their whole point. It's like, all right, we can say whatever the fuck we want to each other within the confines of these rooms. But this is going to live outside of that. That's a step too far.

Like, they said that. They said it on the show. Like, the siblings are like, yo, that's a step too far. So I think if the show was going to make that meaningful, there has to be consequences for Shiv. Because that's the second week in a row now that Roman is basically like, I'm not going to do something because it might kill this person. You know what I mean? Like he was like, I'm not going to take a stand against Logan in this way because he will probably die if this happens.

And then this week, he's like, I'm not going to fuck with Kendall because like when you get down to it, that dude showed me how to pee. You know what I mean? Right. Exactly. Exactly. And so I think if the show was going to mean it, they're definitely going to have to be some repercussions for that action. but at the same time, I think nobody understands more than Kendall what people are willing to do in service of his father. Right?

So if he takes a beat and has an empathetic moment for his sister, he can understand that this is what it takes to win this dude over. These are the things that you have to do. And him having once been somebody who was dying, to impress this guy was dying to please him, I would hope that he could have an empathetic, self-aware moment where he's like, my sister's doing this because this is all, this is, there's no other way to achieve the goal of pleasing Logan, right?

Like, but at the same time, again, this was brutal, awful, harsh stuff that shit put out there. Yeah, it was, it was pretty, it felt very different than past disagreements or beefs that they have had. We'll see what happens on episode four. WOS. Thank you so much for joining me. Hold on, hold on, Chris.

Before you go, I just want to say, I listen to 3 heat. Oh, shit. So I'm folding laundry, listening to this. I got my headphones in, and I'm listening to you talk to Michael,

man, and I could literally hear you smiling and beaming through my head. Like, I could hear it. I could feel it. It was an out-of-body experience. I could feel it. dude.

It's so rare that you actually, like, find out that the person that you kind of, like, worship is, like, worthy of the attention. And I don't know anything. Like, he was, but he had just obviously, like, whatever I thought I knew or thought about heat and no matter how deep I went into his works, to have him be like, I'm going to fucking cook your noodle right now by how deep it goes was really, really something else, man. But thanks for listening. The amount of thought that he put into every single case.

character. It was just amazing. Yeah, writing biographies for like tertiary characters. It's what makes him different. It's just like... So, dude, Chris, I'm sitting here and I'm like, man, Michael, man, brilliant. Who knew? Yeah. Who knew?

You know? And I was sitting there and I'm like, who's the artist and the art, the piece of art that I would want to have an hour and a half conversation deep, you know, deep convo about one-on-one. And I was like, man, it would probably have to be pusher and malice about hell hath no fury.

Yeah. Because real heads, real heads, no hell, hath, no fury is the best clips album. You know, we love Lord Willing. We even love till the casket drops. Do you, are you counting, we got it for cheap volume two in there?

We love the week outage for cheap series. But, I mean, these are all Neptunes, Ferald beats. And like not just Farrel, like Chad made these beats too. It's just an incredible album. The circumstances surrounding the album where, you know, their label shelved them because of X, Y, and Z, their manager going to prison and all of this shit that's surrounded it. And for them to make that album, I would love to- And the whole time, the whole time, even though Neptunes have become like basically the biggest producers in pop music.

and they're like, no, but the clips, we got to get this clips record out. But we got to get this clips album out. And half of those beats were supposed to be on Kingdom Come. Because Ferrell was originally supposed to produce Kingdom Come for Jay-Z. And like, whatever. The story around it is just fascinating. But I was like, yeah, I guess my Michael man would be push it and malice. You know who would listen to that podcast?

Besides me? Kendall Roy. Facts. Kendall Roy would be like, God damn. I love Hell Hathno Fury Man. That's true lyricism. Wise, thanks for joining me. John Kerma produced us this week.

Ringr-Restige Pod is going full-time so you can catch Sean and Joanna talking succession on Wednesdays. I think there was a sex education pod earlier in the week. You should check out with Juliet and Joanna. I think we got some insecure stuff, maybe some Yellowstone stuff coming up.

So everybody stay tuned to the Prestige Pod. You can find Woz on group chat on the Ringer NBA show and Full Court Fits on our YouTube channel. You can find me on the watch Sunday nights we do succession Thursday we just we just BS I'm also on the logicals and we answer on the NBA show thanks so much for listening to talk to you guys soon