The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Succession’ Season 3 Entrance Survey

Episode Date: October 15, 2021

Chris Ryan and Wosny Lambre gather to talk about some of their favorite aspects of ‘Succession’ and partake in an entrance survey in anticipation of the new season. Hosts: Chris Ryan and Wosny Lambre Producer: Steve Ahlman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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My name is Chris Ryan. I'm joined by Big Waz. What's up, man? I'm good. I'm shilling super excited to be here doing this on the Prestige TV pod. It's been so many years of me listening to you opine about all of the great works of TV.

and to now to be here to do which is incredible. Dreams do come true, kids. I know. Wise, no, I'm excited to talk to you about this. So what we're going to do on Sunday nights, me and Andy, we'll recap the episode on Wednesdays on the Prestige TV pod.

You can listen to Sean and Joanna Robinson talk like a deep dive of the episode. And then Waz and I are going to do these precaps where we're basically previewing the next episode, but you know we're going to talk about the previous episode. We don't have a previous episode to talk about, or we do, but we have 20 episodes to talk about. So what I wanted to do going into this thing,

third season with Woz is do a little bit of an entrance survey. We tried this. Van and I did this when we were talking about Ted Lasso. So I wanted to ask Was like kind of a series of questions. We can get a sense of what kind of succession fans we are, what we're looking forward to. We can start out with just the basic one that I wanted to ask you, was, which was, do you watch succession for the jokes, the portrait of greed and capitalism, or the underlying pathos and humanity of the characters? 100% I was first drawn to the show because of the portrait of, you know, late stage capitalism, right? What it means to be good at capitalism, right?

Like, this show is basically about that. What it takes to succeed in the system. That's what drew me to the show. But as, you know, because I recently rewatched it and rewatched both seasons in preparation for season three and as well as the podcast. But really, man, it's the joke. It's just, there's nothing this funny on TV right now. It's so searing and cracking and just like razor sharp and just, there's no sympathy. There is no sympathy on this show.

And that's what I think I'm most drawn to now. At first, because remember, you know, people were slow to get on it. You know, some people weren't into the, oh, you got to wait until episode four. I was not. From the moment go, I was like, this is for me. But I think why I wanted to be involved with this show was the portrayal of American capitalism. But yeah, the jokes are just, it's another level, in my opinion.

To watch them speak in the vocabulary of the burn and to watch them express every human emotion through the armor of denigrating other human beings is really something else. I think that that carries the show, even when maybe it seems like it's spinning its wheels a little bit plot-wise. But as your relationship deepens with the show and as you go on, and I want to get into some of the individual characters in a bit,

I have to admit for me, it's those like half a dozen human moments per season that really, like, I think sometimes elevate the show for me. I'm speaking specifically about an episode that I think you talked about recently. No, you didn't. That was Joanna and Bill, I think, talked about Safe Haven. but I don't know if you, you know the episode Safe Haven where there's the lockdown at the ATM building

and the end where Kendall kind of like, you know, is vulnerable with Shiv and she almost doesn't even know how to like handle the information that he's, he's being a human being with her. It's those little things like that that I think kind of make the show transcend it and beyond just like a really good like VEP-esque comedy. It makes it into something like truly profound in some cases. But I think you can go to it for all,

for all of those things. I agree with you, though, that when it first started out, it was more like this sort of portrait of almost like cancerous greed. You know what I mean? And what it looks like when it's emerging out of a family?

I guess that brings me to my second question, which is now after rewatching the 20 episodes, do you think Succession is a comedy or a drama? And I guess I could go a little bit deeper with that question and say, do you think it's a comedy that has dramatic moments or do you think it's a drama

that's primarily told through comedy? It's a drama that's primarily told through comedy, right? Because when you're attacking themes of family, of power, of greed, there's sort of a baked-in drama component to that kind of subject matter, right? And how we get through this is with the comedy. But, like, rewatching the show, it's tough to binge this show because there's so many moments of just extreme tension. Of just like, holy moly, like the season finale for season two

where, you know, Vogan is giving Kendall the news that like, all right, it's going to be you, son, who takes the fall for this. And the way that's played and, you know, Jeremy Strong's face, like the face acting this guy does throughout this series, especially in season two, is just crazy. Like, he looks so crestfallen. But at the same time, as we know, spoiler alert, I guess, he's hiding something. He's hiding something deep inside.

And that's why I think the show, you know, when you're talking about fathers and daughters and, you know, all of this. Those themes are very dramatic. So I think it is a drama. Like, there's just, or even the scene where Kendall does the press conference, the way, like, they filmed that. There's so much tension in that. And the show's always doing this. Even when it's funny, like when Greg Deag is destroying evidence, right? This drama, like, he's like, uh, uh, people gonna know I signed out for this and blah.

Like, it's, it's incredible. Yeah, you know, a lot of TV comedy now, aside from the network sitcoms that still exist, have become, I think there's a lot of like mid-funny dromedies right now, like where there's like a 30 minute show. Maybe it's about one person's journey and it has some humor to it. But it's not like laugh out loud funny the way that Succession is the way that Curb is, the way that maybe 30 Rock was and shows like that. Succession actually like still cracks me up so much that I almost feel like I have to think of it as a comedy. And I often do find myself like if you go back and rewatch certain scenes, the juggling act that they play where they get a bunch of people in a room and they're

all making these like incredible one-liners and jokes, but at the same time are moving the football forward on like some kind of narrative plot or some sort of like betrayal or some sort of, you know, set up that's going to be paid off later. It's really impressive because a lot of comedies, like, if you watch 30 Rock, it's almost like incomprehensible of what any episode of 30 Rock is like what's happening on it. It's like, and it's almost like obscenely like over the top. Like, It's like, oh, like, Jane Krakowski's character stopped eating, you know, because or whatever. But it's really, really, really, like hard of what Succession does where you're trying to make like a kind of understandable, like dramatic narrative that's told primarily through these people who are making jokes. So yeah, it's.

Yeah. I would say a great example of that is, I forget what the name of the episode, but it's when they go to meet the Pierce family and everybody sort of peers off. Yeah, it's like Turnhaven, I think it is. Yeah. Right. And they have their individual pierces that they have to impress to, you know, get them to allow the acquisition to happen. And, you know, it's important, right? Like, if it's the way they explain it on the show, it's like if we don't acquire this thing and make ourselves too big to be acquired by these other corporate raiders, this is going to mean the death of our company as we know it.

Like, this is basically life for death of this business that Logan has invented, right? And so this is of the utmost importance. And they get the families together at that long table. And just the interpersonal conversations and reactions that you're getting is just, it's amazing. And it's hilarious. But again, it's in service of this really important plot point. Like this is really life or death for the company. And it's just joke after joke after joke after joke after joke after joke after joke.

It's amazing. Speaking of Life or Death for the Company, I wanted to ask you, this is the thing that I've been thinking about a lot through my rewatch and as we're going to season three. And just thinking about the long-term sustainability or stability of the show, which I don't know, maybe Jesse Armstrong doesn't plan on doing it indefinitely. Maybe there's like a sort of a four-season or five-season arc for it. But how invested are you in the lowercase succession plot line of uppercase succession the show? So because like that is essentially what the beginning, and ending of most seasons of the show, or the two seasons of the show are about, is whether or not Logan will remain in charge of this company and who will take his place if he doesn't? I'm not. Yeah.

I don't care. Yeah. I generally don't... It's regular season basketball. Exactly. I generally don't care about plot in anything that I'm watching. I find plot to be the least interesting part of most things, right? I think when you veer into...

Because, like, and we're going to get to this at the end of the show, there's plot problems on the show, but I don't care. It's not really about that. We talked about that episode of Safe Haven. There's the Kendall Shiv moment that is amazing. But there's an earlier moment that I just, that just sticks with me. It's so illustrative of what the show is about, what they do on a week-to-week basis, is when Tom realizes he's in the shittier safe room.

The bad safe room, yeah. That realization of like his position in the family, his lot in life, like, this position in his marriage and all of that. Like they're doing so much with that one realization. Like, I'm in the shitty safe room. Yeah. Wow. I really am on the outside of this thing.

So that's what I watched the show for. It's for stuff like that. Like, you know, what Stewie's doing with the rival exec and all of that and the machinations. of a corporate bear hug, hostile takeover, vote of no confidence, all of this shit, I don't care about that.

You just wanted to be like a long-running company so it could be a long-running show. Exactly. Do you have a favorite episode ever of Succession? The Sex Club episode. Prague, yeah. Real degenerates, that's our answer. Yeah, for the sake of this podcast,

I think that you should know we're Prague heads. Super, super, duper, big Prague heads. Of course, like, everything that goes into them getting to this party, all the shit that happens at the party, Kendall's realization that those tech, what's the female version of a tech bro? A tech sis? Yeah. Those tech sisters basically spurning him be like, we don't want to be, we don't want to have our company associated with your evil-ass freaking father and news station. And you guys are terrible.

We don't want to be affiliated with you. What happens to him with that and all the stuff in between and then, of course, like, Tom drinking his own jizz. Like, I know that's juvenile humor, but it's so fucking good. It's so funny. And all of them at the end cracking a joke about it. It's amazing. You swallowed your own load? Yeah, I heard of it, but I don't.

I didn't know what actually happened. I haven't heard about it before. I have. It's a thing. There's a word for it. I can't remember what it is right now. Yeah, this show is like really good at taking a whiteboard scenario to its illogical conclusion. The best part of Prague being when Greg's been tasked with keeping Kendall clean at a sex club walks in on Kendall about to do a bunch of cocaine and it's just like, you know, you can't do that.

And Kendall is basically like, then you have to do all of it or otherwise my heart's going to explode if I do more of this. So Greg has to do all the cocaine. and then Tom walks in and Tom is like you better throw up your entire bloodstream it's just like it keeps going up and up and up

Prague is probably my favorite example of what Succession does so well which is essentially like it's every episode traps people somewhere it's like you're on a boat you're at this New Mexico retreat

of the family therapist you're at this sex club whatever it is it's like confining people in these spaces and making them interact with one another because that's like really when they all walk into a room together,

that's when it really, like, the lights go down and, like, the fireworks start going off. Despite the ensemble nature of the show, is there any one particular character's journey that you're most invested in? The Kendall thing is what I'm probably most invested in because it's central to the show. They explore his psyche and his emotional well-being

basically more than anybody else. You have no choice but to be invested in what Kendall is doing. Like, you know, what does it mean to be so deeply affected by nepotism and having everything handed to you and wanting your own ambitions and all of these things? Like, it's got to be Kendall, right? But look, the Tom character, which I think we're going to get into afterwards,

I don't know that I'm invested in his story, but I find him to obviously be the most huge. of all of these people, because he's wearing all of it on his sleeve all the time. And so I'm invested in Tom as well. It's not that I want to see him, you know, gain the upper hand in his marriage because we know that will never fucking happen.

It's just on a week-to-week basis, I'm always interested in what's happening with Tom. Yeah, he's the most craven when it both comes to his frailty and his ambition. And so it's kind of funny to watch him interact with the Roy's who have such, you know, like it's almost in their bloodstream. that they like have that privilege, that they feel like they have like this money at hand, that they have this power at hand,

and that they have the right to go for, you know, more and more real estate as they go through it. I really probably would say my answer is Kendall. But as season two kind of went along, I got more and more into Rome. I got more and more into Romans kind of like being a hostage, getting into Jerry,

kind of stepping up a little bit on the, in the finale when he sinks the, the deal for Laird and he's just like, I'm a bullshitter and this one, this, this deal is bullshit. I just find him so fascinating. With Kendall, I always kind of like, I think this is midmentioned before, but I always like to imagine Kendall is being an original investor in raucous records, you know, like a guy who kind of like was like Ivy League. Like a Steve Rifkin. Yeah, had some money, put out a couple of Shabam Shadig 12 inches. And that was like kind of always never really gotten over not being like the head of loud records.

Right. It's so like they do these little touches because in season one early on, he's like listening to rap music. And like he has these strange like quirks. It's like well, Kendall actually might be kind of a cool guy underneath all of the douchebaggery that he's inherited from growing up in this family. Like they give you these dope little nuggets and then of course it crescendoes into a freaking full-on rap record in one of the episodes.

And yeah, I just, I just find myself, again, because he's so central to what's happening in the story, of course, I'm deeply invested in what Kendall was doing. And I thought his journey in season two, they did it pretty brilliantly, just allowing Kendall to just be, he comes back, he's completely defeated, and all he does is say, all right, I'm just gonna yes, man. Yeah, yes, man.

A husk of a person. Yes, man. I'm just going to, yes, man. Yeah, yeah, Logan, everything. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes.

What do you need, Dad? Yes. Die for the company, yes. And it was all this elaborate rules. But they do a good job of showing you. Like, he's consciously, where's in season one, he's trying to juggle all of these things. He's trying to look competent. He's trying to be competent.

He's trying to be loyal. He's trying to do all of the, he's trying to juggle too much in season one that he obviously doesn't have the capacity for. In season two, he's doing one thing. He's just doing the fake lap dog thing And he's crushing it Because everybody believes That he's a big dumb screw up Yeah, everybody's just like you look like a corpse

Like what's up with you? He's not in charge of satellite launches Or anything like that He's just like all you do is give Logan two pills And just stand to the side And let's absolutely shell shocked My grandpa has made it clear That if I want to secure my future

Then I need to sever my links negotiate a bit of a Grexit. Next question. Successions, relationships with, and references to the real world. Not enough, too much, just right. I mean, it depends on what you mean to be the real world. If we're talking about the real world of modern capitalism, I think they're doing it just fucking right, actually. The point is to acquire. The point is to accrue more money, more power.

So the point is to suck everything up, right? Like, that's the point of this system. And I think the show shows you how and why it is so. These are the incentives. You either kill or you be killed in this system, right? And even, you know, in the final episode, when Kendall's like, and it's like a double entendre, he's like, did you think I could do it? Kendall's talking about, of course, stabbing him in the back.

Right. Logan thinks he's talking about actually running the company. And Logan's like, yo, you got to be a killer. Which we know Kendall kind of is. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think the relationship to that reality is good enough. Like I know some people are going to get woke about it and be like, well, there's not

enough black characters or, you know, do we have this? Or are we taking up in our boxes? And I don't give a shit about any of that. I think it's true to the nature of the world that. that governs our lives, bro. Like, these people make the weather. The oligarchs make the rules. They write the laws for us.

It's not like, you know, saying China or Russia where the government is basically hands down the agenda to business and then down onto the people. No, in America's business hands down the agenda to the government who didn't hands it down onto us. And so, like, it's just fucking real. one of my favorite parts about this show is how they depict the Roy family as kind of behind the times and that they react to being out of fashion with brute force. So obviously that gets depicted in the

Volter storyline. But do you remember that part? I think it's in season one. Once he recovers from his stroke and Logan wants to buy a bunch of local TV news stations and Stewie's like TV, right? I think they have one of those in my gym. Like he's just like, why do you want? TV news stations. You guys are so out of step with the times. And Kendall's whole thing is like, let's be part of the conversation.

Let's go viral. I want to get verticals going. I love how like out of touch this family is and how they, when they're kind of confronted with being out of fashion, they'll just be like, fuck it, then we're buying everything.

All right. Next question for you, is you feel the most confidence slash excitement when these two characters are in a scene together. It could be, you know,

more people can be in the scene, but as long as it has these two people, you get fired up. I read this question a little differently. Like, I thought, who are the two characters when I see them in a scene together? Do I get most excited to watch play together? But if it's, in that sense,

my two favorite character pairing is Shiv and Tom. Oh, yeah. Just, there's just so much going on. It's so much as bubbling underneath the surface. So much is left unsaid in their relationship, but the show gives it to you, Bare nakedly, though, right? Like, it's not said.

It's just just underneath the service of all of their interactions with one another. Like, Tom is basically being cut, right? And, like, and he's fine with it because he's so nakedly ambitious and greedy. And he wants to be part of the, in the royal court so badly, he's willing to put up with all kinds of indignities and humiliations, right? And so that relationship. And he can't take advantage of the opportunities that she's, he's giving him. So she'll be like, let's have a threesome. And he's just like,

ah, I've never played for a live audience before, you know? Yeah. And so that pairing always excites me because I love what they're doing with that. About like, this is how power works. This is how it warps people. This is why when, you know, when we talk about bad actors out in our world in society, I think it's kind of foolhardy to talk about them as individuals. It's like, yes, people make individual bad choices, but most of the time in those positions, pretty much everybody's going to behave the same

when the incentives are what they are, right? And I think Tom is such a beautiful example of that of just like, bro, his proximity to this power is just turning him into a complete idiot. Yeah. And it feels like there's nothing he could do about it. So those two definitely, But as far as like, am I guaranteed to laugh when this person is in the scene is Greg the egg?

Every single time he shows up, he makes me laugh. When he tried to quit, when he sees Logan in the bathroom because his grandfather was like, I'm going to cut you off if you don't quit his working for these people. They're horrible. They're evil. They're ruining the world, et cetera. When he calls his, like, basically his resignation of Greg's it. I'm just like

This dude Like everything he does is so funny So Greg is somebody I know I'm gonna get a laugh No matter what You hit the nail on the head with Tom and Shiv In terms of like that's like Probably the most interesting pair

Along with Roman and Jerry to me As far as the like These two people are on screen Or this person is on screen and I'm ready for it It's for me it's Stewie Who didn't get a lot of burn in season two But pretty much anytime he talks to Kendall, I'm like, this might be like one of the funniest things I've

ever seen. The beginning of season two, I think, when Kendall goes to meet Stewie and Sandy at like the restaurant and is like, my dad's on the phone. He's like, oh, your dad's on the phone. Like, he's taking an important call. He just always like absolutely beheads Kendall in the best possible way. The end of season two, where he's like sniffing the rosemary while he eats cheese in Greece and then it's just like, no, I'm not taking your deal. It's just astonishing. If the word smarmy had a face,

it would be Stewie's face. Yeah. Like, he's just, he's always, because in every scene they positioned him in in the show, he's always holding the better cards, and he always knows it. And he's, you know, so he always has this just dushy smirk on his face

and it's just amazing. lines that he delivers. It's just incredible. I do love Stewie, too. He's just a fantastic character. Next question. And this one, you know, we've only, this is our early days of us potting together, but I'd like to think of this as like a classic Lob City, Chris Paul to Blake Griffin situation. Is there any one character or plotline you wish the show would give us more of? This is Club Carolina. Yes. This is, this is, this podcast, mine is, well be renamed Carolina is incredible. Yeah, like, you know, whatever. I don't even know what she is. She's like a PR flag. She's like a PR person. She's a player. Yeah, like she's like the PR person.

But like, every time she's on the screen, I'm like, who is this woman? Yeah. And then of course, like, I Google her and she's married to, um, what's the name, Patrick? Patrick Wilson from the conjured. That's, I was like, of course that's his wifey. Lord have mercy. Mercy. He's got Aquaman money of course. Listen, boy. But yeah, every time she's on screen, I'm just looking at her, for real. I wish she had more to do. Like, the character is basically a nothing burger on the show. I would love to see them, like, give her more stuff, allow her to say some of the crazier, snappier things that the other characters get to say. I remain big fans of Carl and Frank, the beleaguered, long-serving executives of Waystar. I would love for them to have like a

spin-off show of what they do, like maybe them living in the, like, you know, Florida near Mar-a-Lago or something. Those dudes definitely live in Westchester. No doubt about it. It's not Connecticut. They're definitely no longer in the city. They're just like, look, I'm done.

I'm just catching checks at this point, and I'm done with this. You better be smelling your fucking armpit, Romulus. Was, is there any one character or plotline that you could live without going forward or, like, on rewatch? you were like, I'm all good with that one. The Ria thing.

Okay. The Holly Hunter's character. Holly Hunter never really made sense. It's like the only thing that you, to me, that you could pick a knit. It's like, how or why did this woman be able to weasel her way into this position of power with Logan while never having delivered a single fucking thing? Right. She didn't deliver Pierce. She hasn't, she didn't do the dirty work when they got the first.

victim to not give testimony to Congress. Why is she? Why is anybody listening to this woman? Why does she have a seat at the table? And I just wasn't into the character. Like, I obviously, I think what they, what the, I think what the show was doing is showing you like, pretty much everybody who gets in proximity of Logan just starts sucking dick. They just start kissing up to the guy. Like, everybody gets sucked in and they're just so thirsty and power hungry. and they showed you that with her, just her naked ambition, backstabbing shit of all kinds of craziness.

But the character, I'm just like, bruh, it don't make sense that she could just come in while not having done a single thing for them and, you know, assume this much power so quickly. Welcome to the C-suite.

That's how I got where I am. It's like I just offer very little, but somehow wind up at the table. I think if I had to choose one that I'm like good with, maybe on rewatch. I haven't yet found, and maybe that's the kind of the point, but I haven't really like clicked with like

the Naomi Kendall romance. Like I get kind of this self-destructive aspect of it, both of them feeling like outsiders and their own family's part. But the concerting chemistry hasn't really lit up, but maybe that's sort of the point is that like Kendall can only have like fleeting fake chemistry with people. He can't have like sincere real relationships with them.

going into the next season then. So I want you to give me one thing that you're really excited about seeing like played out or like, you know, maybe like not a prediction but maybe something where you're like, I can't wait to see where X, Y, or Z goes.

And then one thing, just a concern troll that you're like, I hope they don't spend too much time on X. I think what I'm really interested in is who was in on it with Kendall. Right. He didn't pull this off by himself. Right.

He had enablers. So I'm interested to see that. Who was actually part of the game? The way the camera sort of pans to Greg really quickly and he's holding a folder. Right. I mean, he obviously has, I think the implication is that Greg's got like the documentation that Kendall needs. Yeah. Leads me to believe that Greg is somehow a collaborator.

Kendall did get you a beautiful apartment. And my God, is that apartment beautiful? Yeah. With the freaking infinity ceilings. Is that supposed to be in Tribeca? It feels like it. Either Tribeca or like Soho. Yeah.

Where like all of those lofts are with all of that, the crazy freaking space. It's downtown, though. Is that your taste? You feel like in another life you'd like to get like a loft going south of Canal? I would rather have a duplex. Give me two floors. You know what I mean? Rather than one big one?

Yeah, yeah, no. I need two four. separation of church and stay. You can have people downstairs and then go and do what you do. Give me the duplex life. Of course, I need a door, man. You know, open my door, hold the umbrella. Sign for the packages.

Of course. Yeah, yeah. Drop it to the front door, by the way. Don't have me picking it up. My packages need to be at the door. So, yeah, no, no. That apartment was just firing. You know, anytime you can live downtown,

Even in Tribeca, which is like, people don't know this about Manhattan. A lot of people don't. But Tribeca is like one of the only places in Manhattan. It's just like quiet. There's nobody there. Yeah, because everybody goes home at five. Yeah. There's no restaurants.

There's nothing. It's just rich people. But yeah, so I want to see who the co-collaborators were in Kendall's, you know, basically knife to the back. Yeah. Or if it's like just like just kind of flying off the handle because he just like realized that he was always going to be in this like in his father's headlock if he didn't do something.

You know what I mean? Also, I think the show, we can dispense with the notion that Shiv wants to do anything else besides be powerful within this organization. Right. Like rather than her being like the chief of staff or the next president or something. She has these aims outside of the power that the family has amassed. It's all bullshit. It's cap.

Like the show showed you. She was so thirsty and desperate. Oh my goodness. All season. She got a little width. of that damn chair and she was just, she was losing her damn mind.

It was craziness. And so after watching her do that all season, don't try to tell me she want to, she want to go run Pierce's organization or she wants to get on the staff of the next Bernie Sanders, although disrespectful, that's a disrespectful Bernie portrayal, Chris.

That's a nitpick of God with the show. You didn't like that? No, wasn't feeling it. Disrespectful. Don't have a disrespect to burn. Yeah, so we can just dispense with that Don't go down the road of all these people Have other aims and ambitions because they fucking don't

I'm trying to think of which presidential candidate Shiv would be most appropriate to work for Amy Klobuchar Yeah Yeah because she's used to a hostile working environment She's used to people being like eat my salad with a comb That kind of shit Right, yeah

She's used to being berated and hearing terrible language So probably Klobuchar Would have been the pick for fish of ball somebody a little bit more cosmopolitan than that, but I get it. I think you're probably right in terms of the environment. All right, man, well, we can wrap it up there. Waz and I will be here every Friday to talk about the upcoming episode of Succession and our thoughts on the previous one. You can catch Waz on group chat. You can also catch them on full court fits, which you can find on our YouTube channel. You can listen to me on the watch, the answer on Fridays

and the rewatchables for a lot of the rewatchables episodes. Thanks to Steve Allman for producing us. And we'll see you next week.