The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Succession’ Season 3, Episode 9 Precap

Episode Date: December 10, 2021

Chris and Wos discuss the pool nap heard 'round the world, and what they think it will mean for the ‘Succession’ Season 3 finale. They also discuss the full realization of Shiv Roy as a villain, Roman’s burgeoning business acumen in conflict with his personal failures, and the quiet power of the Logan and Kendall dinner scene. Hosts: Chris Ryan and Wosny Lambre Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shop spring backyard days for seven days at the Home Depot. Now through May 6th. Exclusion supplies to homedipo.com slash price match for details. Hello and welcome to the Ringer Prestige TV Pod. It is the final succession precap. I'm Chris Ryan. I'm joined by the full fat pope, Big Was. And we are taking Susan Sontag to the drive-thru.

What's up, man? How are you? Hey, man. I'm just chilling. I just like equality. That's all, Chris. Just treat me as an equal as they would in the great country of Sweden. Home of our bosses. We love Sweden on this podcast. It was. Just to pull back the curtain a little bit, Sunday night, obviously there was a lot of chatter, a lot of attention being paid to succession. We'll get into that. And I think I hit you up Monday morning.

and I was like, you know, what's your take? Where's your head at? And you were just like, the internet has been down. I haven't watched yet. Did you wind up getting the episodes spoiled for you before you watched it? Only one thing got spoiled. Obviously, you know, the junk pick that got sent around the world. That was spoiled.

But I'm happy to report that the anticipation of knowing it was going to happen, I still was, I was screaming in here. I like, just, just, just Colkin's like acting right there of just like, oh, ugh, ugh, eh. And like his shamelessness kicking into, it was perfect. I laughed anyway.

So let's start with the one question that everybody is asking, which is how did Dasha from Red Scare get an invitation to this Tuscan wedding? It's actually, whether or not Kendall survived the episode. Obviously this was

something that kind of came out of nowhere. I think everybody had been sort of waiting for something not the season hasn't been substantial, but something really big to happen. It usually happens around this time of year for succession. And this was very unexpected. There's been a lot of debate about those final few bubbles being blown into the pool.

And obviously the publication of this huge Jeremy Strong profile, and the New Yorker feels a little bit like, and now my watch has ended, you know, like my time here is done. But for you, man, what did you think as the episode ended? Were you watching the end of that character or something else? I mean, Succession hasn't killed anybody yet.

And so that never even crossed my mind, right? And I have a confession to make. Reading through that profile makes me think that he's probably not going to die. Because when he's talking about studying Daniel Day Lewis, if you watch his films, like, he's kind of fucking with us. The whole time. Yes. Yeah. And I think Jeremy Strong saying that he spent all this time with Daniel Day Lewis and sort of learned at his knee, that makes me think he's fucking with us.

Like, if you watch Phantom Thread or there will be blood, there's like a knowing wink to those characters, I think. That's my interpretation. Sure, sure. And I think there's a through line between that and even just how Paul Thomas Anderson likes to tell stories where it's like, am I joking? Am I not?

Like, that keep you off balance? Even I was watching a master the other day. And Joaquin Phoenix, it feels like he's given a comedic performance sometimes, right? Which makes me think that like this dude's trolling us. Yeah. Too much of this felt so meta reading that profile. Like this guy is fucking with us. So there's two sides of this.

One is that why not just run the piece next Sunday and be like now that his character is dead, here is the Jeremy Strong profile. It's odd to run it the penultimate week. Although obviously it hit like the exact right moment because the only thing people have been talking about this week, it seems like is Jeremy Strong and Ken and Jeremy Strong's performance of whether or not Jeremy Strong would be like a good hang

or a tough co-worker or whatever. The DDL thing is really interesting because I think what you're identifying there is just like a level of commitment. And when you like commit like that, even if you... Okay, so if you buy it at face value, the tales of like,

I'm building like log cabins to get ready to be in Last the Mohicans, that level of commitment inevitably leads you to a place of comedy in some way. You know what I mean? And that when you watch Jeremy Strong, like, there's no doubt in my mind that

Jeremy Strong has probably been listening to nothing but showbiz and AG for like six years preparing to be Kendall. Do you know what I mean? Like, he's not, he's just like so committed to it that it is going to come off in a comedic way. My thing was like, I talked about this with Greenwald. I just don't know what Kendall does. If he's alive, I don't know what's next for Kendall. Do you know what I mean?

Like, I don't know dramatically. and narratively what you do with a character who's been so completely and totally ostracized, it's, you know, sure, you could just rewrite him back into, like, the family business and have him sort of be, like, in the mix and in those board meetings and going on little trips with Roman and Shiv

and stuff like that. But this feels like that, that shoe that we were waiting to have dropped. Yeah, you know, it's funny, man. Like, I purposely avoid succession chatter before I come on here, so as not to steal too many people takes.

So I didn't realize people think that he's actually going to die. I just don't think it's that literal. This is a show that's constantly fucking with us. So maybe I'm too conspiratorial here in my thinking. I just think this is more funny than anything. Like, again, Dasha from Red Scare talking about podcasting on succession, like, what else am I supposed to do with that? Yeah.

Right? Kendall has basically a Vanity Fair profile in the beginning of the season. And now Jeremy Strong has one in which he's saying, this show is not a comedy to him. What am I supposed to do with that, Chris? Like, it feels like I'm being fucked with. Yeah. I mean, I think that there's definitely, you're through the looking glass a little bit with it. And you're right.

I think that Succession makes a lot of knowing nods to its core constituency. You know what I mean? They play to the base, as it were, where they're just like, we know that the people who watch this show probably listen to podcasts or probably know about like who, you know, like who would get profiled or how they would get profiled in the Times or in Vanity Fair or something like that. Did you think that Kendall's conversation with Logan felt like the last conversation that they would have.

No, I don't think that's any closure. I thought that was, man, that was one of the best scenes I've ever seen on TV in my whole life. I completely agree. I completely agree. Of just real talk. Like, real talk, like, no pretences of just like, all right, like, since we're doing this, cutting each other down to size.

And, you know, you and I have, we're old enough that we've had some real talks with the people closest in our lives before, right? And there's always that moment where it's like, okay, you're using this conversation as an opportunity to tell me about myself? All right, let me tell you about yourself real quick. Dude that I just kept out of jail. Dude that I provided the most lavish, luxurious life for. Dude who's never done a goddamn thing on his own.

Let me tell you about who you are in relation to me. Like that felt like real talk. I don't know that it has to be the final conversation. It just felt like, yo, let's get our cards on the table real quick here. Because it mirrored the conversation that Shiv had with her mom. Yeah. It just felt like this is what people do when they're really close to each other and they're at an impasse. Both of those scenes, I thought were the hallmark of both of them is how like unsuccessiony they were.

They were really, really well written. but there is an energy that comes when it's like five people standing around Logan and just being like, oh yeah, like putting in your dick hole and like your dick hole goes into your earhole. And like it's just like one liner, one liner, one liner, one liner. And it's like, it's obviously we love it. But there was something so quiet about the Logan Kendall exchange and so devastating because I think Kendall thinks that he's playing like this card here, that he's just like, look, like I know what this is and you know what this is. and I don't, like, I'm not, I still love you, but I can't be a part of this anymore and you won.

And that's supposed to be like his big monologue, his big, like, this is your big closing statement. And Logan's just like, you're a murderer. Like, what do you, you can, you can judge me all you want, but you just let a dude drown to death. And, you know, like, obviously, like the symmetry is there. Like Kendall allowing someone or not saving someone from drowning and drowning himself. I mean, a lot of the kind of more. writerly aspects of it, I think all point in the direction

of that being the final scene with Kendall. The Twitter detectives are out in full force, breaking down frame by frame, whether or not you can see the top of Jeremy Strong's head in any of the scenes from next week that we've got coming on Sunday. I don't know. I mean, I think I was pretty convinced on Sunday night

and Monday morning, I was like, this is definitely the case. He has died in that scene. And now I feel like it's just been too many days. It's almost like a football team where you're like, I've now outthought myself about Jalen Hertz. And now I'm back in on him being good. Again, like, this has not been a kill people off show, right? Brian Cox, I forget where he gave the interview, he was like, I mean, they could kill me, but they'd probably miss me. You know, like, he said that in public.

Like, we could kill Kendall, but we would sorely miss. him, right? And I think, you know, you asked Andy the question of what, where, where else can we go with this character? I mean, these guys are talented enough. I'm not going to doubt their ability to keep us on our toes and keep us interested. And again, to just refer back to that New Yorker article, like, I'm reading it, honestly, as if Brian Cox and Kiernan Culkin were giving interviews to between two ferns. That's how it felt, reading it. Like, maybe I'm just too cynical and paranoid. Maybe that's the case.

But I read it as funny. Like, to me, it makes watching Kendall funnier to think that Jeremy Strong, just like Kendall is like this try hard theater kid doing way too much than is necessary to do this completely unsurious job. I'm sorry, I love movies and TV as much as anybody else. These motherfuckers aren't curing cancer, right? Like the idea. Oh, but if you know enough actors, you know how many of them think that they are, though. You know what I mean? Where they're just like, yeah, you know, thanks for asking me.

I did send the first man into space. So it's really important because you were just like on a TV show at 10 o'clock on HBO. Yeah. And Chris, that makes the show funnier to me. Like, this all makes everything funnier. And I think what you're talking about about the Logan scene, I think the scene when they were on Montauk and like the camera just lingered in silence. I think those moments are made more potent by the dickpicks.

Like I really do think that we can't have a show that's all, you know, the last scene at the birthday party. That's all Logan cutting Kendall down to size, right? If we do, like, then we're just getting into like leftovers territory where it's all just fucking sad and fucking morose and just like, really? Do we really want to do that week by week? we need the levity in order to ground some of these other more serious discussions and not just the discussions, but again, like the serious, like these serious tropes that the show hits

on, you know, I think about Roman's conversation with his mom and she's explaining to him the class structure vis-a-vis her and this dude that she's about to marry. And she's like, no, he's not posh. She's actually one of these lowly scholars. getting motherfuckers. He got a scholarship to Oxford. He wasn't bred for Oxford. He's not of our world. He got a damn scholarship.

He snuck in through the back door. It's by him legitimately earning it, right? Yeah. So that he can then go on to start nursing home. Right. Fraud. Right. Exactly.

Yeah. The show does so much to talk to us about class consciousness, which again is something that I'm obviously interested in. But I don't think it's very prominent in a. American culture, both political and pop culture-wise. I remember listening to you and Andy one time on a podcast, and I forget which I was talking about. And you guys were talking about a show like actually addressing like that people are poor.

Like most shows don't address like people need money for rent and for babysitters and for this. And you guys are like, that shit is not in our culture. I think the show does a lot to do that. I think we've just grown accustomed to that being bad TV. If somebody's just like, I can't afford a car. Like, that's like, no, I need you to be in the car because that's, that's a cool scene. You know what I mean? I need you to always have something to eat. I need you always to know where your next check is coming from. You know, I mean, like, I think, I think that that's not why people watch TV traditionally for better or for worse, you know. There were a lot of really interesting confrontations over the course of this episode. So I thought we could talk about a few of them. The one that was just like, honestly, like, I don't know if my blood was like what it was turning into it. But it definitely. like just stopped pumping through my veins was during the two shiv and tom scenes both the

quote I guess the sex scene and then the morning after scene and I just was like this is this is just so uncomfortable like in a way that is so deliriously delightful where you're just like they're they're in this amazing picturesque Italian village and you know like everything is gorgeous like the cinematography is amazing. And they're just, just destroying one another. Brough. So, I have a confession. I hate sex scenes in media.

Okay. It's always clunky and weird. And like, you know, if you watch like a comedy, like the people are always fighting and throwing stuff. And like, when they're kissing, they're like banging each other's faces. And I'm just like, what? I remember at a certain point, Chris, I got to confess.

I was like, is this how white people fuck? I remember thinking that when I was younger. Like, wait, what, why is this? Like, I always am made uncomfortable by sex scenes depicted in media. Like, 98% of the time, right? And then there's this. Is, like, just basic instinct go into the 2% or does that in the 98%? Oh, that's in the 2%.

Yeah. Sharon Stone is in the top 2% of the 2%. I just figured you understood her work in a more deep one. now, you know? So the Shiv thing starts off like weird and I'm like, ah, this is such a weird way to like set up with like a sex scene. And then it started getting like, wait, is this hot? Yeah.

That was just brilliant how they played that. And they've been setting up this idea that like, you know, Tom is basically being cucked by Shiv. And then they finally do it in that way. And I thought that was genius. And then the conversation about it, which most shows would have had that scene. And there would have been a, like a, you know, like a glancing, passing blow. There would have been a punchline.

Yeah. Yeah. A punchline. They freaking reconstructed it play by play. I was like, this is so brutal. It was brilliant. The part where he's just like, yeah, you know, I thought like maybe you get some love beads or I dress up like fire. It's like that's not her kink.

Her kink is destroying you because the only time she's ever been sincerely interested in Tom was when he withheld his affection for her in the beginning of the season. And he was just like, oh, thanks for telling me you love me. I appreciate that. Which, by the way, that scene, well, that scene is foreshadowed by the conversation that Shiv has with her mom where the mom describes Logan as being like, are you kidding me? all he ever wants to do is kick the things that love him. Yes.

To watch them crawl back. And that's what Shiv just fucking just does to Tom all the freaking time. That's what her and Logan have in common, this sort of carry in the stick type of thing that she's constantly doing to this dude. And he just can't get enough of it. It's, whoo, good thing I'm 34 years old. I can handle this. Another one of the sort of confrontations are couples that I really

enjoyed this episode, but also so far this season has been Lucas and Roman, has been the Swedish tech entrepreneur and Roman. And, you know, Roman has been courting a lot of different people over the last season, especially like Jared from the presidential episode, the presidential selection episode. And now Lucas. And man, I just, there was something that really, they really do get that sort of CEO speak, that kind of high-level business talk where it's, him. being like, I'm only interested in failure and pounding that shit out. That is like the thing that you hear like on the balcony of Soho House one night, you know what I mean? Of course. Is some guy just being like, yeah, I'm only interested in failure? What did you make of

both the scene at Lake Geneva between the two of them, but also like that guy pumping up his stock by doing a reckless tweet, Elon Musk style? You know, it's funny. I like reading Roman in that scene because he's like legitimately intellectually stimulated and curious about this guy. You can see Kiernan Culkin processing the information

in real time and he's like, okay, I'm putting the pieces together about what kind of, I mean, you're sick, but I'm interested. I'm, I'm interested in figuring out this jigsaw puzzle that is whatever your needs and wants are. And that's what struck me the most

about that scene is like watching Roman, like you see his skill set being put to use. Like, most people would just be like, this dude is fucking gross. This is weird, right? Like, this really depressed, unhappy dude, which is, you know, one of the key themes of succession, like these people who have everything. They're all the most deeply unhappy people on planet Earth. This really unhappy, unpleasant dude.

But like, what does he want? What drives him? What makes him tick? And, you know, the part where he's like, what, you know, what do you fail at? And he's like, are you out of your mind? You think I would ever tell you that? Like, do I look like a big fucking idiot to you? That's what kind of drew me into that scene

was Romans just intellectual, just legitimate curiosity. It was kind of crazy. I think it's amazing that Romans, Roman assuming the absolute worst about humanity has actually come in so handy for him this season. You know, both in the helping pick the Jared Mankin character to be the presidential candidate it and then this and this whole ordeal with Lucas, it's like, you know, some people would walk

into that, like, the way you walk into a job interview and they're like, tell us your biggest flaw. And you're like, oh, I'm a perfectionist. You know, like, he's just like, I'm not fucking telling you what I'm bad at. You're immediately going to turn that around at me, you know? Roman gets pretty close to the sun. You think he's maybe, maybe sort of eclipsed his Icarus, his icarus standpoint. But then, like, at the end, well here's the thing is that like I think that the dick pick situation is is objectively like was just like one of the most like hysterical scenes I've seen in the TV show in a really long time ever but the whole point of it is that there actually are no consequences you know what I mean is that like his dad's like you're a fucking sicko she's a million years old and he and he throws Jerry under the bus like in like two seconds flat yeah and the thing is to me what what I also took out of that was like the consequences of working with your family Like, that showed, like, anybody else would have been fired. Like, it's over for you, right?

Like, but this is my kid. I can't really be rid of them. It's not that big of a deal. Jerry's a good soul. It's just, but, like, you could tell Logan was just like, why do I do this shit? Right. Right. Can I have one normal kid?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, why do I even employ these kids? Like, he's just, like, this is absurd. This is so clearly not what you should be doing. But like you're my son and I have to deal with it. So it kind of shows you like the consequences for Logan of putting his family, you know, making them a part of some of this stuff. And I, you know, again, like the family motifs always the stuff that most interest me because like there's a way that he talks about the Swedish dude Madsen.

And then he just never talks like you could tell he doesn't have that glint in his eye. Like he sees that dude as a peer. Yeah. It's like, I mean, you know, like, he did make a fucking thing that's worth a lot of fucking money. Right. Right. And he's like, I respect the fact that he actually went out and did that. Yeah.

Right. As opposed to Shiv who gets on the board that she was so thirsty to be on. And now she's taking the meetings in her pajamas from her crib. Like, it's just like they're always doing the great example of like showing you what he respects and why. Like these kids have done dick all ever in their whole lives. and then there's other people like the Pierce's like Madsen who Logan is like whatever like at the very least he can respect their accomplishments

whereas his kids are just like they've never done dick yeah yeah so I mean let's we can we can talk a little bit we don't have to get too predictive obviously we discuss whether or not we think Kendall's going to pop out of that pool and we were a little bit of split decision there but what are you kind of looking for as a conclusion for this season. Like, are there any things that you're particularly interested in having answered or addressed before we, we wrap up the season?

Man, they've kind of put some bowls on some things, right? Like, I think from season one to now, up until this date, Shiv, going from the smart, obvious, best, brightest one to the most vapid. Like, that's been, I feel like they've completed that turn. And cut through. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, she is actually the worst of all of them. Like, actually the worst. And, you know, Roman being, like, secretly the best for the job. And Kendall being a tender dude, but ultimately a fuck up. And, like, all that,

like, we wish that Shiv was as, you know, emotionally intelligent as far the CEO world as Roman was, but still as tender as, as, uh, as Kendall is. And we wish they all had these different characteristics. But like, Shiv's completion, I feel like a lot of this stuff is complete. Like, Shiv sucks completely, utterly. There are no redeeming qualities about this character who they, they tricked us into thinking was this heroin who we should root for.

Like, she's the worst of all of them. And I just, I don't know. I think with the kids and with Logan specifically, they've shown us who these people are. They could put us in different positions or in different scenarios where we let the character sort of be themselves and let the drama unfold out of that. But like, they've unmasked these people in ways

that I find to be super interesting. And like, even like, thinking back on all the shit that we've seen for three seasons now, thinking the other day and I was like, yo, Logan might be the best companion of the family. Like if you were going to date any of them? Yeah. Like, how is Logan the best? That's crazy to me. You know, like, it's so crazy like how they, again, along the way, just added these little wrinkles to each and every single person and just revealing who they are, what motivates them and what ultimately makes them at their core is so dope. Uh, unruly.

wrap unpacking the season. Again, I hate, I hate these questions, because I don't come into these episodes with expectations. Right. I mean, I think that that's kind of been the interesting thing about Succession, though, is because when you watch Breaking Bad or when you watch, you know, maybe another, a more genre-based show that has, like, a destination that it's just a matter of when they get there and how, then that's like, that's an experience. When you're watching something like Succession, there's no reason why Succession can't

run for 12 seasons. You know what I mean? I would watch, I would watch this show, and I would watch. we watch some combination of these people. And frankly, even if you wanted to introduce new big characters, like if Kendall were to be gone from the show in some capacity or another, like, I have no objections to like Alexander Scarsgaard having like a major role in this show. I would be fascinated to watch that.

I would be fascinated to see Brody on this show a lot more. Like I'm, I'm okay with that. I think that there is like that that's a really interesting kind of way to approach it because it is in this sort of prestige TV zone where I think people do game out like, oh, what's happening, what's going to happen on the show? What are the consequences of certain actions or certain events? And, you know, losing a major character would be a really consequential thing. And it would allow the show to maybe refresh it's, it's sort of, I don't know, the roadmap or the, or the landscape on the fly. Yeah. And also, there's a in-between ground here, right? Like,

obviously people have taken notice to Jeremy Strong's acting chops. This could just mean he's on break from the fucking show, right? To go work on something else. And then, you know, he'll come back at a later date and on the show. They'll say he's, you know, in Arizona or Sedona somewhere fucking rehabbing or doing whatever the fuck it is. Rich people do, right? Scream therapy.

Yeah, right. Yeah, that's on the table too. And if he's not in the first eight seasons, episodes, excuse me, of season I'm completely fine with that. This show isn't, I think the one thing that does sort of anchor the show is Logan and everybody's relationship to him because he's at the fulcrum, the center of the power on the show. I think that would be a tough thing to sort of re-anchor, reorient the show around, not having

Logan around. But Jeremy Strong taking a hike for a few episodes or even a season while he does God knows what. Reestablish his internship with Al Pacino or whatever he was doing. Yeah. That was my favorite part of the New Yorker story is where it was like Jeremy Strong

almost bankrupted a theater company to like pay for a fake award for Al Pacino. So he could hang out with him one weekend and pick his brain. I respect it. And again, like all of this stuff about like I studied the masters. I studied Pacino and Hoffman

and Day Lewis. This is like, bro really like you really you really need to an apprenticeship from X Y and Z to execute a good TV character to me that just means you're not that good at what you do well that's the whole like the Kieran Coulkin promo run

recently has been almost better than the New Yorker one because like every time you see a Jeremy Strong thing where he's like I had to go out like I had to literally go back in time to go to the tunnel to understand Kendall's hip-hop roots. Then Karen Culkin's like, it's called acting. You know what I mean? Or like, you should just like just try reading the lines and maybe rehearsing once or twice. And yo, these lip, again, this interview, if you just, these little tidbits about I grew up

in an all-black neighborhood. I had to shed the jerseys and gold chains. It's like these ridiculous elements that exist within Kendall's character, right? Like, it's all there. That's why I feel like I'm being. spoofed here. Yeah. I know. Well, man, it's been a pleasure talking to you and getting ready for these episodes

over the course of this season. You can catch Waz on group chat. You can catch them on Full Court Fits on the Ringer's YouTube show. I'm on the watch. I'm on The Answer on Fridays and I'm usually on the rewatchables and the prestige TV pod. Thank you to Bobby Wagner for producing us. Was, thanks for joining me, man. I'll see you on the other side.

Chris, I want to know, are you the skunk, the porcupine, or the concubine? in this trio here. You know of the concubine. Later, man. My boy. Hey, Mama. Thanks for making all my favorite recipes. Hi, Ma.

Thanks for your unfiltered advice. Hi, Mom. Thanks for always being by the phone. Hey, Mom. Happy Mother's Day. When you ship UPS Air at the UPS store, your items arrive on time or your money back. Guaranteed at no extra cost.

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