The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Succession’ Season 4, Episode 4 Precap

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

Chris and Wos begin the pod by reflecting on their own personal experiences with loss as they process the death of Logan Roy on the show. They then compare Brian Cox’s riveting portrayal to other iconic TV leads and dissect the reactions of Logan's family and staff as the events of the episode unfolded (6:24). Next, they talk about their relationship with Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty as native New Yorkers, and examine some of the key scenes (13:34). After the break they speculate on the possible new narratives for each of the kids and lament the ones that died with Logan on the plane (18:05). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Wosny Lambre Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Sean Fennessey, one of the hosts of the Prestige TV podcast. HBO's Barry is back for a fourth and final season, and that means I'll be back recapping the show with co-creator and star Bill Hader to dive deep on the themes, scenes, and major moments in the series. Bill will provide insight into how every episode was made and why it's ending. New Prestige TV Barry recaps will go live every Sunday night when the episode ends, so make sure you're subscribed to the Prestige TV podcast wherever you get your podcasts. You said this place was steps from the water.

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Happy to be back. What an incredible episode to have watched. And, you know, it's perfectly set up the next seven episodes, which I think is great. Because now it's almost like the season that's two parts. It's like this part. And then now the actual, quote unquote, succession will begin. Yeah, I was wondering, like, am I going to get somber was? You know?

Am I going to get Melancho? and collie was, you know, just reflective wise here, because... You know what's so crazy about that? Obviously, I love listening to you and Andy talk about this show. And you said something, you were like, yo, like, this shit had to happen

to one of the people involved in creating this. And I agree with you only mainly because we lost my mom last year in a similar fashion. She wasn't traveling, but she was at the house. It was Sunday. A lot of people were visiting her.

and she sort of just passed out. Yeah. And it's crazy because my older brother and sister don't live in New York anymore. They both live in Georgia. My sister happened to be visiting New York at the time. And so was at the house. My brother happened to be visiting me in L.A. We were driving back with the kids from Santa Monica when somebody called us and was like,

yo, your mom passed out and the EMT workers are in here trying to figure it out. And all of that shit with Roman and Kendall and asking the questions and the confusion and what does this mean? And, you know, they finally got my mom's heart rate going again. So they got her in an ambulance. But, you know, ultimately when she got to the hospital, she was gone. Just the way this whole shit came together was just so similar to my own experience. They just nailed that. Like you're on the phone trying to get information, trying to get people who are trying to stay calm.

but also communicate the gravity of what's going on. It was just crazy. Right down to like my brother-in-law, my sister's husband is the person who ultimately had to call me to tell me that my mom has passed. And so like watching Tom perform that job, it was just like, wow, this is kind of how it goes, you know?

Like the people who are directly involved, like my sister, like she can't do these jobs, these tasks. Yeah. That just have to happen. And just, man, this shit was just incredible. I've never seen, I've never had a TV experience like this before. Yeah, I mean, obviously, I'm very sorry for your loss. Thank you, man.

I appreciate you. I mean, like, thank you for sharing that. Because, like, I've had similar experiences, you know, like my father passed away, like 10, 10, 11 years ago. And was, it was a much slower process, but the end was fast. And it was the same kind of thing where the thing that struck me about those guys on the phone and the show is like you're you're taking the call and you're also like I'm taking the call like you're in your head you're like oh this is that phone call that you get

I'm going through this experience and I you know is it like what you thought it was going to be like is it unlike what you thought it was going to be like and you're kind of sorting through all your feelings when that's happening and I thought that the pivot that the show made to sort to dispense with a lot of like your typical succession episode stuff and kind of be like this is really like a real time human reaction to traumatic news while still maintaining the fact that like by the end of the episode people are starting to angle for you know their control and their leverage and stuff like that it was really quite a miracle uh it was and obviously you alluded to like the second half of the season in some ways it's the beginning of

the end of the show because everything had sort of been building up to this. Were you surprised that Logan passed away so early in the season? I don't think I was surprised. I think there was moments in the episode where I couldn't be sure if he had actually gone.

Oh my God. Undertaker. Yeah, I know. It was just like this. I was just like this guy. It's so crazy. Just the performance, right? of this character, like the gravity

of this person is so heavy that even me watching from home is like, there's no way this is actually happening. And watching the characters have that same experience, like, no, Logan Roy can't die. That's not going to happen. And so that's, it's not that I was surprised,

but watching the episode, I like, you know, romance. didn't want to believe that this was actually. I was like, nah, he's coming back, for sure. Well, I mean, we had the Kendall experience last season. Do you know what I mean? And I think it's a little bit of fool me once

where you're like, yeah, man, like, if they end this and they're still doing chest compressions and then next week this dude is in the hospital, I'm going to be like, not frustrated, but I would just be like, then I see where this show is going, that all these characters are ultimately bulletproof and like this isn't about like,

you know, the sort of trajectory of family goes on. It's kind of trying to repeat and reuse certain tropes. I think that it'll be so interesting to see how a Brian Coxless show looks, too. For as much as Logan as a character is essential or has been crucial in terms of being a foil to these other characters. I do think I'll miss Brian Cox's performance and that the kind of gruff gravitas he gave this show. Yeah, I can't say enough about what he's done to me. This is right up there with Tony Soprano.

This is right up there with Walter White. This is right up there with Don Draper. This is up there for me as far as a powerful performance and somebody just embodying the essence of a character. Yeah, this is a huge, huge gap. I think a testament to those other shows that we just mentioned. I would have no problem watching Carmela sort of become the focal point of what's happening on the Sopranos, right? Like, same thing with Peggy, same thing with, you know, Jesse.

Like, I would have no problem watching those guys and gals become the focal point of what was happening around them outside of, you know, the protagonists of those shows. And so that's what I think Succession has in common with, you know, those Mount Rushmore, prestige TV shows. is that the other players, I mean, come on, you know, like Jeremy was just, he was on a heater. Yeah. This episode, like the face acting that this guy was doing. So it's like the players that are left on the board are so worthy of the task that I'm not too worried about it. When you watch this show typically, are you kind of in a state of delight? Is it cringe?

Is it like? Because I was like, I was struck by my physical reaction. reaction to this episode where I was like, I feel like my heart's not really beating and I can't look away, but also I would not call this like fun. You know, like watching this is obviously not a fun experience. No, it can be fun. There are times when it's fun,

but, you know, the conversation that Khan is having with Willa. Yeah. I'm like, oh, I'm so brutally honest and tough. Like, I was like, how was he? be so able to just be that vulnerable in that moment and just put himself out there on a chopping block. And the fact that Willa was like, no, like, I still want to, you know, I still want to rock

with you. I was like, I was prepared for this guy to get chopped. Well, I mean, she's like, you know, not today. I'm not going to walk away today. It's, it's, it's those moments in the show that I think just make it what it is. But yeah, I would never describe this as, um, I'm not going to walk away today. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's those moments in the show that, fun, it's not like watching Narcos, you know, a show that we both love, obviously, where it's just like, yeah, the Cali cartel got the upper hand. He did what?

And then you don't have to ask if he did what, because then the voiceover tells you what he did. You know, it's like, yeah. They're going to make $2 billion from Coke? Oh my God. Like, this is a way, way different experience. Old Pablo had figured out a way to go

around Betty. You know, like, I was like, all right, you're explaining it pretty well. Yeah, that's it. This show, man, just, just gets at you, dude. And again, all of those moments with the kids, I think the writers did such a great job of making everyone's reaction to the death distinct in their own, the kids anyway.

Connor has his, Roman is, you know, he shrivels up and becomes like a three-year-old again. But in a lot of ways, so does Shiv. Right? she becomes a child and then Kendall of all people you know sort of steps up and it is kind of the leader of the pack in that moment. I thought they did a great job of that.

The freaking just the suits, just the way that the suits can be like it sucks that this guy died, but we're here to work. We're only here because of this job. Yeah. And we still have jobs to do.

And we have jobs to maintain. And we have jobs to save. And watching them have that reaction was just like, who shouts to capitalism. Well, it's also the distinction that maybe it's a thin line, but it is the distinction between like, there's, there are going to people in this, in this world that are family members. And then there are people who are like, my obligation is like strictly professional and self-interested. And even if the kids are self-interested as well, they obviously have this psychodrama going on between the three of them, whereas Carl and Frank and Carolina are like,

yeah, man, like, by the time we get off this plane, we need to have a statement, you know, and there might be some angling of who gets to write the statement or whose name winds up in the statement, but Carolina's like, we got to get through the list here. Carolina, I'm not going to lie, obviously one of our favorites. Yeah, we're club Carolina. I think we're seed investors, you could say.

You know what I mean? We were there before the groundbreaking ceremony. She was just so on task. It was incredible. It kind of reminded me of Mariana Rivera, honestly. The guy would just, he would strike people out with his one freaking pitch and not change a facial expression one time. I was like, damn, Carolina's like, all right, so like, what do y'all want to do?

All right, you guys want to interrupt our jobs? All right, come with, hit us with some ideas, kids. Yeah, yeah. You have none because you guys, again, are not serious people. You know, the coolest, man, the dopest thing about this episode to me, too, because the writers, they explain everything to you is Frank having the conversation with Shiv where, you know, basically Ships like, oh, you know, this is something big. And, you know, and Frank is like, yo, this is the business. Yeah. People are going to find out.

The stock price is going to crash. Yeah. And just the episode before, Shiv was on her high horse pretending to know stuff about business and explaining to her dad, oh, this is impersonal, this is business, I'm not acting on emotion.

And Frank actually shows you what that actually looks like in practice. And showing it to Shiv, I thought that was just beautiful how they did that. It's funny, it's like, because this show is also a satire and because it is also a comedy,

you know, it leans towards that VEP thing where you're like, could these people and, you know, v. predated Trump, but like it's like, could these people actually be in these positions, like of these jobs, right? Like, because they're so foolish. But Succession sometimes does that.

I thought this episode was really cool to see just briefly the people like Frank Carolina and Carl who are like, yeah, this is actually what happens when something like this happens. Here's what has to happen first. Draft a statement. Then we have to call the president. Then we have to do this. Then we have to sort of start to sell.

up the board meeting. Then we have to sort of stabilize the stock price. And that's why they have those jobs. It's not just because they're funny. It's like, because he's actually created characters who can do go both ways. I wanted to ask you a little bit about the show going forward. But before we do, the other two questions I had about this episode specifically, as a New Yorker, as one of my favorite New Yorkers. Have you ever taken a boat to Ellis Island? I have not been. Ellis Island is separate from the Statue of Liberty, right? You know what? I've never been to either. I've been to the Statue of Liberty, I don't believe I've been to Ellis Island. I think you go

by the Statue of Liberty to get to Ellis Island. At least that's how it worked in Godfather, too. We went to We went to the Statue of Liberty only because my cousins were visiting from Florida. We went to the Statue of Liberty that day, and we also went to the Empire

State Building. Two things that I promise you, I would have never have done it. Would have never even occurred to me to do as a born a native New Yorker. But yeah, I don't think I've, unless it's the same island or whatever, I don't think I've been. I don't think it is.

I think Ellis Island, I mean, we're going to get a lot of chamber of commerce emails about this, but I think Ellis Island has like a whole image, you know, museum there. Okay. I was, did you find Statue of Liberty overrated, underrated, or properly rated when you visited? Properly rated. It was properly rated. You know, again, these are things that you don't think about just living as a little

young boy growing up in these flatbush. You don't think about these things, but like the big ass ferry that you take, I don't think I'd been on many boats before that. So it was just like one of these things, it's in the summer and it's like, well, we're like on a boat right now.

Like a bunch of people. Like that kind of struck me. Like obviously this thing is in the water, but you don't think about the logistics. I don't think of New York City as like a big like waterway town. It's not Venice. Exactly. You know what I mean? It was never like, do you

want to cruise the Hudson. Exactly. Maybe if you go up to the Catskills or something, but not like, hey, there's New Jersey and there's Pier 16. No, so that was, and so that kind of shruged. It was like, wow, we have to take a boat to this place. But yeah, that's about the only thing I remember. I remember thinking I've never once ever wanted to go here, like, ever.

I must have been like 11, and I was just like, this has never crossed my mind. Wow, it's like, cool. Like, my cousins came up with this idea because clearly they're tourists. and just, yeah, the motion sickness, some of my aunts had motion sickness, that kind of thing. That's all I remember about it. I thought that that boat was cool,

as was the plane, because you get basically an enclosed environment, but they figured out how to make it feel like an entire city in there, where you even had like these tiers of people who were allowed at various levels of the, you know, like the VIP that like Kendall and Roman are immediately, like, where can we go to not have to talk to anybody, you know, basically? Perfect.

And then on the plane, the plane was fucking snowpiercer because they've got like, they're like, Carrie, you have to go to the back now because you've lost all your privileges. I think she was with the three greggs, the little Greglitz. When they, I was, you know, the first, the first time I watched that episode, I was like, is Logan running around with press? That doesn't make sense. He's not the president. It's not a press corps. Right. On like, Air Force one.

But then I was like, oh my God, those are freaking Tom. Those are Tom's assistants. Yeah. Yeah. But they have Carrie. go to the back. I thought we've really talked much about Carrie other than just like briefly about her like audition

tape that she puts up. But the immediacy with which she is now out is so intense in that episode. Bro, I've rewatched it this morning and the scene where Logan calls Roman to tell him

that he has to can Jerry and she's got these big glasses on, big shades on her face and she could be, she couldn't be more nonpluses. She's Jack Lino Nasis there. Exactly. She is just riding high on the hog.

And he asks something about Napoleon, blah, blah, blah. She says, oh yeah, Napoleon touch and such, blah, blah, blah. And is back on her little iPhone. She is riding high. I'm with the king of the world. I'm the princess of the castle, excuse me. And she's loving it. And then the very nice next time we see her,

is when she's literally losing her mind because it's all hitting her at once. Like I watch somebody die. That's a one and two. I'm done. I'm cooked. Yeah. Snoring, gasping during sleep,

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Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low. low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-9 or visit setbound.lily.com. Succession to its benefit, and sometimes it's been a critique of mind is that like sometimes there's like inconsistent character behavior or the beats don't quite match up from episode to episode. But when we get at the end of this episode is essentially, these kids are shattered. But like you said, there's some emergence of like a new order to them where Kendall obviously starts to kind of take take a little bit of like of control.

What do you think could you see that being something that happens in the weeks to come? Is like this kind of this kind of new narrative for Kendall after after Logan has died? Yeah, I could I could absolutely see Kendall because he even refers to it as we can hand them the crown. Right. So it shows you how his mind is working in the situation. So I can absolutely see Kendall thinking he's in the cat bird seed and, you know, he's going to be maneuvering and, you know, sort of seeing this thing through. However, his siblings are not going to back him. We know this, Chris.

We know this. Way too many episodes left for them to be like, yeah, Kendall's a man. It's not going to happen. They are not going to back him. And just, you know, and how we know this also is the instincts when, you know, when the suits are like, yo, we're drafting a statement, automatically like, we're not a strange. Right. When he said we were not as strange, like if you guys are not as strange, then that word has no meaning.

Yeah, then I don't know what estranged is. Right. You guys are the definition of a strange. You don't work at the company. You don't talk to the guy. Like, he's not, yo, this dude wasn't even going to Conner's wedding, you know. Like, bro, like, no, you guys aren't a part of this man's life for real. Not in any meaningful sense.

And you're certainly not part of the company. You're not on payroll. You don't have a position. Like, you're, you just are a shareholder. You know, as Dame Dash would call them, you are quarter water. You know, like, you don't actually, actually matter. So just their instinct to be like, hold on, wait a second. Where are you guys going with my dad's thing?

You know, we know that at all. of them are going to play their part in trying to, you know, put themselves in position, man. And, dude, the whole keep the plane in the air part. Oh my God, dude. That was, that's like an all-timer. Like, it's an all-time Shiv, Shiv blunder. At the same time, though, I, like, I found myself feeling a little sympathy for Shiv. Oh, of course, yeah.

She's extremely not ready for any of this. She's not ready to deal with the death of her father. She's certainly not ready to shepherd his company into his massive company into the future. But, you know, for anybody who's listening to this and has never lost somebody, there's a way in which the world will remind you that it's still moving without a person. Yes. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, you got to pick a funeral spot.

You got to pick a church. You got to find a pastor. You got to settle on a price. You got to do, like, everything just keeps going. You might want to take a, like, breathe like, hold on a second. Like, it doesn't work like that. Everything, everybody's like, no, we need to still be paid on this day. Yeah, you need to figure this thing out.

You need to call the life insurance. You need to do this. You need to do this. Like, it doesn't stop. There's no breaks. This, this instinct to be like, wait a second. Can we just keep it in the air? It's like, no.

And all those kids, they keep trying to do, like, we just need five minutes. need to go outside. We need to go to this other room. It doesn't work like that. The world does not stop. They do an amazing job of like creating this world where after Logan dies almost immediately, what happens is the kids are on the outside looking in. And when they walk into rooms, Jerry's already having a phone conversation. You know what I mean? Like Hugo has all of a sudden shown up and it's like, why does Hugo know that my dad is dead all of a sudden like before maybe my cousin does or like how is this working? Shiff can't win in that situation. because if she says land the plane,

the most important thing is getting my father on the ground and getting him taking care of or whatever, then it's like you're being entirely personal. If she says, keep the plane in the air so that we can figure out a statement for the stock market, she's being a sociopath. So there's no real way to thread the needle there. And the more, if those kids indulge in their feelings in that moment,

it just gives more of a signal to the sharks around them that they're not interested in being business people. that they're not serious people. If those kids go for the throat and say, no, we're running Waystar now and here's X, Y, and Z and get that motherfucker up in the air still, then they're like, oh, we have a bunch of Hannibal Lecters on our hands, and this isn't suitable for work either.

And people wonder why I love the politics of this show. Right. Like, that's the statement that Jesse is trying to get across to the viewer. there are no in-betweens. There are no two ways to do the job that Jerry and Frank and Carl and Carolina have. There's only one way to do that job right and successfully. Okay. And it's not the wait for the kids to get in their feelings way.

Newsflash. When Roman is like, oh, God forbid the market has to wait. It's like, yeah, I get it. You want to inject heart and feeling and loss into the, market. But that's not how markets operate, my boy. Yeah. And he knows it because when he looks at the phone at the end of the episode and he's just like, that's how much dad was worth, you know? Yep. Stock price gets tanked. And there's so many things I want to get into that will inform the future of the show. You know, the kids recognition that there's a stock price implication,

obviously to their dad passing away and what it means for the future of the company. And them thinking that the markets will be sued by knowing that they're the ones shepherding this thing through. Someone with no experience running a media company, someone who blew up a satellite or someone who's tried to destroy that media company four times in three years. Yeah. Which pick your poison. Just the idea, man, that these folks were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, they're going to love the idea that we're doing it.

you know, with the rightful heirs. Clearly the market's going to see it that way. That was just, you know, beautiful. And the thing about killing Roman, I mean, excuse me, Logan off and how it sets off the rest of the season. We spent three seasons and three episodes explaining to the audience, this guy has no confidence in any of these kids as his successor. He's 85 years old. He's had 85 years to do it, wherever long this company has existed, and he hasn't done it. He doesn't believe in these kids. The only way for this process to get going was for him to die. There was no other way. There was no version of this that Logan was going

to pick somebody. Like, he's demonstrated that he just wasn't going to do it to the point where he's just like, fuck that. I'll sell it to a Swede. Yeah. Like, he just wasn't. not going to do that. So this absolutely had to happen. And so again, if you're some market actor, why the hell an 85 year old dude dies? He had all this time to pick a successor and doesn't do it. And he didn't. Yeah.

You're his bum-ass kids are trying to do it. It's like, there's a reason y'all ain't get picked. Right. And then, you know, I mean, one of the cool things about this episode is that in the beginning, there's the Jerry firing, there's the suggestion that Sid is next. There's this huge shakeup. And all that stuff dies with Logan. Yep.

all that information goes away with Logan where he's just like, whatever he had planned for ATN, whatever new company he wanted to build out of the ashes of the old one, it's just, it's all gone. And now all those people are able to angle

for their own piece. What were anything else from this episode that you wanted to talk about before we go? Tom's face, right after Carrie walks out, that face, that face, I wanted to jump out of my chair

when he made that face when he's just like, can you believe this fucking idiot? What the fuck? Also, Tom making that phone call in the little bedroom. That dude is the joker. Like him just being like,

nobody can find out. But when they find out, I need them to know I was with him, you know? He is the little finger of the show. He is constantly, again, he's but he's learning from the sharks you know

within the management structure how this, he's very tuned in to how this stuff works but yeah when he's just like, yo Greg, you need to go delete this file, you need to go do this while he's still crying. It's just

it's amazing but yeah. You think Tom would know about a digital footprint by now after all the crew stuff I just like, I just can't understand how this thing exists on a hard drive that's accessible to Greg. You signal, man. You cyberdust. Do what you got to do? Like, what in the hell is going on? But yeah, no, that was, that was it, man. I thought, you know, the episode, it shows you the loss, but it also shows you, like, the stakes and just like,

are you guys ready for this game. They are not. They're going to. Well, we'll see. I mean, I think that the next episode will probably be very much in the wake of this one. And that you will almost, like, look back on these two and be like, oh, these two episodes are almost of a piece. But when it comes to the future business stuff, I have no idea where this is going. You could tell me it's all going to be about Gojo for the rest of the season. You could tell me any number of things about where Succession is going to go.

Because because they got rid of Logan, they've kind of gotten rid of the roadmap or the menu that they usually serve off of. Can I give my prediction? Yeah. I watched How Suguchi the other day. I think they're going to get Gucci. They're going to get. They're going to get kicked to the curb.

Every single last one of them will be gone. Did you like House of Gucci? I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I thought that Lady Gaga's accent would take me out of it, but he didn't. I'm a bit of an accent, snob. Okay. Did you like Jared Lito?

Yeah, I enjoyed that. I thought that was an inspired. Yeah. I thought that was inspired. I felt like he was trying to get at something at the core of this dude and his insecurity. is emptiness. But, you know, I understand why I can understand why it didn't land for people.

But yeah, like at the end of that movie, there's no person in the Gucci family that has anything to do with Gucci, the brand anymore. It's all faceless, nameless, you know, private equity funds and hedge funds and all of that crap. That's what, that's the fate of this company. Yeah. These kids have me. I bet you it's going to end and Stewie's going to be running it. That would be fantastic.

Then we can get the spin-all. I know, right? Was, thanks so much for talking to me. I can't wait for this episode of Succession on Sunday. Thanks to Chris Sutton for producing us, and we will be back next week to discuss what we've seen and what we're going to see in Succession.