The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Succession’ Season 4, Episode 7 Precap

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

This week Wos is joined by Rob Mahoney. Their discussion begins by examining the growing cracks in the Roy brothers’ alliance, praising Lukas Matsson’s role as a narrative chaos agent, and talking about some of their favorite scenes from Episode 6. After the break, they shine a light on the nuances of Tom and Shiv’s onscreen dynamics and dissect the Episode 7 preview (15:48). Host: Wosny Lambre Guest: Rob Mahoney Producers: Richie Bozek and Chris Sutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Sean Fennessey, one of the hosts of the Prestige TV podcast. HBO's Barry is back for a fourth and final season, and that means I'll be back recapping the show with co-creator and star Bill Hater to dive deep on the themes, scenes, and major moments in the series. Bill will provide insight into how every episode was made and why it's ending. New Prestige TV Barry recaps will go live every Sunday night when the episode ends, so make sure you're subscribed to the Prestige TV podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right,

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Big Waza, aka Wazi Lambray. Chris Ryan is out this weekend. But in his stead, my disgusting brother, root chat running mate. Rob Mahoney was going on, brother. No, Chris. This week, Waz, big shoes. Big shoes. Big, big, big shoes.

Big shoes. Man, I just want to jump right into it with you. This episode was called Living Plus, which it can't be. said enough, the writers of this show are freaking geniuses. Just like, because, you know, I think about like Disney plus, Apple plus, this plus, plus, plus.

It's just this idea of just life plus, you know, a house plus a nursing home, plus it's so, it's just so good. Well, was, this isn't a house. This is tech. This is tech. Right?

I didn't realize how easy you would be to pivot to tech in episode, but it really is like you shuffle around the PowerPoint deck, you change a couple graphs, you goose a couple numbers, and I guess it's a tech product now? I don't really get the math on that, but look, Kendall sold it. There's no doubt about that. So here's the thing. The basic gist of the episode is that we've established that the two brothers, Kendall and Roman, have formed an alliance. They're going to sabotage the deal so that they, the two of them, can run the company. Madsen figures this.

out and now he's brought Shiv in the fold to sort of you know throw some sand in the gears of their plans and their new plan now is like all right he he bowled us all over

with a great offer the board obviously loves it there over the moon everybody wants to sell because it's a lot of freaking money that's going to be in their pockets and they're like man I guess how do we do this

oh I know we got to drive the price up higher and I'm not going to lie to you Rob I watch this and I'm just like Come on Kendall What do you really think you're doing up here? And it feels like there's no way he's going to be able to do this But I'll be goddamn if he didn't pull this thing off It's funny how even in an episode that's kind of a win for Kendall

In a lot of respects like he really We expect him to fail at this big like keynote presentation he has to give Honestly like okay I don't know if you have this experience watching the show for me, the success, who is thriving and who is failing, I honestly can't tell the difference a lot of times until I see like, what's Carolina's face say? Like, I'm trying to read the room.

I'm trying to see what's going on because just by listening to his presentation, I'm like, oh, he's flubbing this. Right. But the show is treating it as a win. And so I guess we are left to treat it as a win. But even within that context, it's amateur hour, right? For him and Roman both, like every step leading up to it, starting from, you know, they call this meeting of all like the senior staff to try to warn them about Madsen and his erratic

behavior. And it's like they did they think that just saying that he's like a human Chernobyl is going to be enough and no one's going to have any follow up questions. Maybe that's just like a silver spoon mentality of just assuming like they're going to eat up whatever we say. We don't need to have any like further answers for these people. But it's like how could you not expect to get any clarity around any of these situations that you're trying to create? Also more importantly, my favorite thing about this season is how clear the show is

explaining to us that everybody views these three with contempt every time they open their mouths. Nobody respects them. And so this idea that Kendall and Roman are going to be like, this guy's character, like, who put you in charge of

the character police? Like, that's not a possibility. Everybody's face, Jerry's just like, wait, what? Yeah, he's a genius. I mean, if anything, People are going to love it. Like, everybody just completely dismisses it. And then it has the double whammy effect of Shiv finding out that they're stabbing her in the back. They're stabbing everybody in the back and trying to tank the deal.

Yeah, Kendall's like, what about this guy's, like, drug history? I'm like, are we just wiping away the previous seasons of succession? You can't be serious. That's the tagline of this show of these characters. Like, you can't possibly be serious. And again, I got to give it up to the writing at all points of this episode and of this season is that this plot sort of sets everything up to happen in the way that we think it's going to happen going forward in the sense that I call this the sabotage Olympics, right? Where Kendall and Roman are sabotaging the sale. Now Shib is sabotaging them.

Then Madsen gets on his Twitter to sabotage the good feedback from, you know, the product launch day, announcement day or whatever. But all of the siblings, when we started the season, they were, you know, they were coming up with the hundreds and they were this united front because dad had screwed us. Yeah, it was just all going to go so perfectly. And then slowly but surely they're like, oh, just naturally, oh, we don't want to deal with Shiv no more. All right, now it's the two musketeers. Well, I don't know. Shiff just said it might embarrass myself on stage, but blah, blah, blah.

I don't want to go up with my brother anymore. And, like, slowly but surely, everybody's back to being divided and on their own. And we know where this is inevitably heading. It's just a great construction of, like, people whispering in each other's ears, right? Trying to get in their heads, trying to control their behavior.

And in particular, like, Mattson's effect on this whole season, I think it's just been masterful. It's a great performance from Scarsguard. But really, you know, you and Chris were talking about, how he kind of fills the Logan void in a lot of ways with this show. And I love when shows do this.

It's kind of a familiar formula. You have your heavy villain and you learn through a couple seasons what the rules are of living in that villain's orbit. We see how Tom maneuvers around Logan. We see how Roman tries to get in his good graces. We see Frank and Carl like scurrying around trying to avoid accountability at all times.

And then at a certain point, you remove that villain or kind of put them to the side and you introduce this character who doesn't have a code who's just a total chaos agent. Mattson is just basically a troll lashing out at anyone who comes around him. And we've seen it on like the wire. This is the way it played out in Deadwood too.

It's a great construction for this kind of show. And the way he has upset all of those relationships, I can't get enough of it. Like anytime Mattson is calling up one of these characters, it's driving plot. It's driving interesting character dynamics. It's making for really good episodes. And, you know, it's perfect.

too because again he has no respect for the the kids but by virtue of their position in life he has to deal with them on certain terms he's very skilled at making it his own terms but every but every now and again he has to adjust and he has to pivot i.e. Kendall actually doing a good job of and you know what I want to get into this forget everything I was about to say about madson I want to get into what this show has to say about financial markets, about Wall Street, about maximizing shareholder value,

about all of this stuff. Like, this show just shows you that it's all bullshit. Like, Kendall can concoct some cockamamie, for lack of a better word, idea about, yeah, we're going to put it in different places. It's going to, you know, it's going to incorporate all this other IP that we got in this and that and the third and blah.

And now he could spin this bullshit In a semi-coherent fashion Means that the stock price will go up off of it Which the show is trying to tell you This is all you need to know about stock prices It's fucking bullshit All of it This is turning into capitalism 301 very quickly

But it really is You know The numbers aren't just numbers They're numbers, right? This whole episode Is based on that idea that you can massage these things in a presentation to convey any meaning that you want them to convey in a way that I think will probably blow up in Kendall's face, right? It will probably lead to some

ramifications. And really, there's a lot of people playing with fire in this episode with their various schemes. But ultimately, like, you try to exercise that level of control in the way that Kendall has tried to and be like, do your Steve Jobs thing up there. And, you know, he does a reasonable facsimile of that in the moment. But is this, is this really a really? really going to fly? Like, is this pitch as dope as Pitch Bob thinks it is? Come on, Rob. Like, yes, Kendall and bite size, you know,

increments can sound like a competent human being. This, this massive endeavor that he described on that stage, how could anybody think Kendall Roy would see that through? That is not humanly possible.

But that's not the point of it. Like, it starts off as a scheme, right? Like you're saying, they're just trying to drive the number up. But as soon as Kendall pitches it to Roman, Roman starts talking himself into it as if it's a real thing. And that's really the Roy kid problem on the show is like they can talk themselves into anything, whether it's the hundred, whether it's Pierce, whether it's the Matson Deal, bombing the Matson deal, running ATN. They just start talking themselves into things. And they don't really have any follow through on any of them, but they can sell themselves that it might work. And then, you know, some of the best parts of the show, this episode specifically were just the dialogue, the conversations that happened.

We'll get into the more personal stuff, which I want to say for the end, because I think that was the best part of the show. One of the best scenes in the history of the show, in my opinion, was Tom and Shiv talking about the relationship and what came out of that. But, you know, there's a part where Kendall's talking to his accountant guy and he's trying to get him to basically. basically say that this works mathematically, that this will somehow be some revenue driver long-term and it's going to be great. And the guy said, numbers aren't just numbers. They're not. They're numbers. Meaning there is an essential truth that has to be communicated through these things, right?

Like we still have to be tethered to reality in the real world. As an accountant, I have to balance the balance sheet. Like we have to be tethered to some level of reality. Like that that line that he said just killed me. And Kendall's like, yeah, yeah, cool. Just make it work. There's a lot of just make it work in this episode with Kendall, right? In his stage, like, you know, the staging of his keynote.

He wants the clouds. He wants this house built in a 24-hour basis so we can give this big presentation. I think I underestimated, and you spoke to, like, the way everyone around the Roy kids treats them and looks at them. I underestimated the pure joy I would have from Kendall being in charge in the reaction shots, in the accountant's reaction. In, you know, Jess is on like meme a minute pace with her reactions to the things that Kendall and Roman say. That's really become like a treasure of this show, right? is you have these characters who are obviously on one perpetually, way too much money, way too much power,

always hungry for more, for all the wrong reasons. And you just have all these other people trying to swim around that and grab what they can and have to deal with all the consequences of, I guess we're just going to try to make clouds in the next day. That is what our job has become. Yeah, so Roman has some, I think there's three,

though, there's four of them that Roman are involved in. When they ultimately tell Shiv that they're planning the official, like she knows already because she knows these idiots. We're tanking the deal. Okay, cool. That was a big conversation. Of course, he asked for a hug afterwards. The two firings where, you know, we basically learned that Roman is completely unraveling and is like he's spiraling out of control. And then I thought the conversation that he has with Ken right before he goes on stage.

is an interesting one because it seems like Ken was actually ready to go up there with him believing in what they were doing. Say what you want about Kendall. He kind of believes a lot of his own bullshit. He does.

And so he has the confidence to go up there and he seemed legitimately disappointed that the two-man weave that they were running is no more. And that his brother was losing faith and not just what they were doing together but him personally, right? And you could see that in that scene.

And then ultimately, Kendall goes out and he kills it. And Roman feels like a big old idiot for having doubted the goat. You know, I thought that was just incredible. That combo where he's just like, ah, maybe it's a disaster. We don't want to put our names on something that doesn't go bad. That doesn't go right. And Kendall's just full steam ahead and hits his target.

Well, especially after Kendall has his back just before that, right? Like, you know, he's, Roman is flying off the handle, firing people left and right. And Kendall's like, yeah, I see the vision. I'm with you. These are money moves. I'm backing you no matter what. This is what we do as CEOs, right? Like, he is embodying that energy.

And so I think that betrayal, I mean, it does cut deep, right? It's one thing if you're going to fire Jerry. And it's another thing if you're going to hang me, your brother, who we are in this together. I made this flight jacket for you. And you can't even wear it with me on the stage to read half of this script and talk to our dead dad on a giant like projector screen. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigue, ask your doctor about Zepbound, terseptite. The first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep.

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Hilton, for the stay. The conversation that Tom and Shiv have, which, man, like, talk about real talk. Talk about, like, so much of what the show is about, the way that you have to debase yourself when you make it your mission to climb the corporate ladder there is no you right

like it's just about serving your masters at that point and that the embodiment of that idea of class climbing in the character of Tom has just been flawless and this conversation is so just incredible because one, look, I'm somebody who said like Shiv's kind of a monster. She's been like dicking this guy over the whole time. The idea that he should have been loyal to her when all she's ever done is kick the dude and made him feel insignificant and unnecessary the entire run of this series.

I don't know why she expected this loyalty to be engendered from that behavior. However, I think Tom just saying something, plain English has the miraculous feature of breaking through, right? Can you believe it? Just some honesty and some real talk about life and money and what it means to have it and not have it. And man, loyalty, all of that. I just thought that was, that's one of the top five scenes of the series, in my opinion.

Well, their relationship is such a gem. I don't know that we've seen anything like it before. to be honest. You and your wife don't talk to each other like that. It's not how you get down? I don't play a lot of bitey. No, I've never seen anything like this either. This is deranged.

It's 50 shades of shiv type of stuff going on with them. It's a lot. I mean, there's obviously a lot of acidic relationships in TV and movies. There's confused ones. And then there's this, right? Like, whatever this is, biting each other at a party until they scream. And then having this kind of conversation in which, again, they're just bouncing, they're zigzagging all over the place.

It's so hard to read anything that they're saying, whether it's true, whether they're putting on a front, you can see little moments where the guard comes down and then immediately goes back up. I'm in awe of those two performances and their ability to balance all those things in a scene like that. Incredibly high degree of difficulty managing a dynamic and an exchange like they have in the bedroom where they're talking about as you're saying, like all of these class situations, the history of their relationship, the way all these things interlock, what they mean to each other, whether they actually love each other at all, which I think is kind of one of the season's big questions, right? Like, what is left of this relationship after all of this fallout,

all of this ballast that has gone into, you know, managing the company and their maneuverings within it? I really cannot get enough of this stuff. Like, give me, give me these two on screen together as much as you possibly can. They don't have to be alone. They can be in groups. They can be in context. I just love seeing the way they make each other squirm. Yeah, I mean, it just, the way that they laugh at the joke of like, yeah, I'd move into a trailer park with you. Just maniacally. But also not.

You know, it's like they laugh and then they're waiting and then they're laughing. But it's like, of course not. We know, but we know that's not the case, right? And ultimately, out of that honesty, you see them like, all right, cool. They're working together now. Like, that makes sense. There's a level of candor and just the truth about the relationship, right? I think in today's society, people would have a hard time, I guess,

even in today's society, understanding that, like, no, like, Shiv is the provider. She's supposed to be providing security to this guy. Instead, all she'd ever done is dangle it like a carrot and take it away from him at every single opportunity. And he's like, Shiv, you know me. you know what I care about you know what I'm striving for and in certain respects and I say this all the time that's the only thing

it's what people hate and love about Tom is his thirstiness right um it's it's a desperation but also it can be useful and it's like you've never said yo Tom don't worry no matter what you're going to be fine like I'm gonna draw up a nice

pre-nup package for you I'm gonna do X Y Z no matter what you're gonna be fine so he's like look I'm looking for security from either you, your father, whatever job. Like, I'm trying to find my security. You take that kind of thing for granted because you've always had it. You've never even have to consider not having it, right? And so I just love that honesty in the conversation. It was like, obviously, we can see it as viewers that Tom is just, you know, he is, like, when people call other people careerist, it's usually in a pejorative fashion. And Tom is the embodiment

of that, but for him to sort of lay his soul out, bear that way, was deeply affecting stuff. Just a couple of quotes here that I wanted to get off to you before we sort of spun this forward. Shiv is saying to Tom that, quote, we have a connection, her and Madsen. Is that what we're calling that? That's what she calls that? She calls him sweetie. Nice little pet name for them. I love it. I'm like, man, Shiv, you are, you are insane. Ken just keep saying, Price Rocket. I love Ken's when they're like formulating the plan.

He's first starting to get a vision of what this is going to be. He tells Jess, you know, give me the double click on longevity so I can see everything. Infinite brain box. What does any of that mean? What does he? Again, I'm like semi-influent in M-Brongeant. NBA speak, but this is, he's on another plane of existence with this stuff. Like, it's, he, he is so, he is so freaking good, um, at all of this, uh, Jeremy Strong.

It's like, he, like, in his line deliveries. Oh. Where again, like, it's so monotone and he so believes this crap. And he thinks he's so impressive when he's saying all of this stuff. It's just just the best, man. On the other side of it, I mean, he responds to disappointment. Like he's a seven-year-old who was just told no one's showing up for his birthday party, you know? Roman's not going to wear the jacket.

He nearly crumbles. Again, the clouds for his presentation are more like, you know, steam coming up from a pipe. Just cannot handle it in that moment. Has to totally regroup. He's got the kicked puppy thing down, down Pat. Yeah. And again, my last one, my favorite one, again, this is just the show, just sort of just being like, yeah, it's the final season.

We can say the quiet parts out loud. When Kendall is explaining that there's a potential for his hair-brained ass plan to work, he said, it's enough to make you lose faith in capitalism. You can just say anything. You can just say anything. You just make shit up. It's fine. It's all good.

While we're going through quotes, I mean, one thing, I don't know if this concerned you was. You and I, we do a lot of podcasting. There's lots of files of our voices out there. And there's a little subplot in this episode of taking this video clip of Logan in front of a green screen, chopping it up, you know, making him overstate living plus and what its revenue driving might be. Deep faking, Logan, if you were. Straight up deep faking it. I mean, look, all I want to say is here in front of you in front of everyone, I'm bowing to our producer,

Chris Sutton on this pod who could make us say whatever he wants on this recording. I'm just deferring the power in the room is all I'm doing. Yeah, that little clip at the end where he's calling Roman, a micro dick, having whatever. And that's all Roman wants to play is like his dad, berating him and calling him a bitch essentially is, what a broken guy.

Yeah, so we get the preview for next week. They're throwing a house party or like some type. is it like a fundraiser? What is that party supposed to be, that mixer? I didn't really get the, I don't know if they sort of detail what it's supposed to be, but they're throwing a party. Madsen's going to be involved, so we know it's going to be full of hijinks and quotables. And yeah, I don't know that the Shiv and Madsen thing, I think, you know what, that's a lie.

I think that is going to last a couple of more episodes. The Schiv and Madsen thing. There's a long tail on that, I think. There's a lot to tease out. That's going to last a couple of more episodes. But my prediction, spoiler alert, it's not going to work out in Shib's favor. You think? She's got a lot of time in her, honestly.

The like nakedly ambitious, just thirsty for power and influence. She has so much time in her, which is kind of funny that she resented. him for that same, you know, fiendish devotion to power grabbing that she hates him for it is pretty hilarious considering the moves that she makes. And again, just so people understand, even in the first episode where they're all United Shib was doing backdoor stuff, she had other things going. So, like, as much as we can say, oh, it's rude that they were cutting her out of the hostile takeover or whatever the hell they were doing of. sabotaging to do. Shib don't want to rock with them either. You know, and that's the message of the season.

These people don't want to rock with each other. This is what they do to each other. I wonder if the party that we saw the clip of in the preview is going to be the election party that Tom wants to host. Remember, they have that conversation like, should I take over for Logan's election party? In part, I wonder that because we're going on a run of episodes now where it seems like almost every episode, there's some mention of Jared Mankin, right, who has this weird broie relationship with Roman.

We see in this episode, you know, honestly, that's kind of the point where when Roman is talking to Joy, where he really loses it is when he's confronted about 18-s coverage of this guy. He steps up for his boy. Questionable decision. Would not recommend it.

But, you know, obviously we're heading toward a lot of election coverage and election themes in these episodes. I wonder if we're finally going to get a Mankan appearance in one of these. Yeah. I can't wait for that. Man, this episode was incredible. Chris Ryan is out, but he'll be back next week.

Thank you, Rob Mahoney, for filling in for us today. And Chris Sutton, thank you for producing. We will see you guys next week. Make sure, of course, you check out the recap pod with Bill and Sean Fennessee and Joanna. On Sunday, right after Successionaires, we'll be back with the precap, as always. and make sure you're checking out all our other offerings on the prestige TV feed. We'll see you guys later. Peace. In a food system this big,

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