The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Succession’ Season 4, Episode 9 Precap

Episode Date: May 19, 2023

Chris and Wos begin their conversation by talking about how humorous and political Episode 8 was compared to the rest of the series and breaking down the current state of mind of each of the siblings. They then examine Justin Kirk’s performance as Jeryd Mencken and draw parallels between the controversial character and some real-life individuals in American politics (10:41). After the break, they discuss Shiv’s plethora of strategic miscalculations, debate if Kendall will ultimately be wearing the crown at the end, and dissect the Episode 9 preview (17:32). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Wosny Lambre Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu, chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. that sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Hello and welcome to the Ringer's Prestige TV podcast. It's medically good for your brain and it's Big Was. Joining me, Chris Ryan, to pre-cap the next episode of Succession, which we do by some light recapping of the previous episode of Succession. Was, what's up, man?

I'm good, man, I'm good. Still reeling from that episode. I just rewatched it like an hour ago. Just super good stuff, as always with Succession. I found myself laughing harder during this episode than previous ones. But I don't know if that's actually like, because it's funnier or just I find the subject matter of this particular episode to be especially hilarious. So were you laughing to stop from crying or just laughing? at like the hell that we live in.

Like I saw a lot of people, Andy especially even was like this was a lot to process. And I wondered if you had the same take because we've talked before about the politics of this show and how this show does politics. This might be the most explicitly political episode

they've done since what it takes, which was the sort of dog and pony show of the Republican presidential candidates that happened in season three. So like what was so funny about it, I guess? What was so funny about me? The mechanisms of making TV.

Like that's the, that's kind of the, the best part about this episode for me. It's like, what they're doing is, it's a TV show. And this episode is about making a TV show. Only the stakes are like,

you know, way higher. So when Tom is like, the telepropter, stop. The touchscreen. It's just like, that shit doesn't matter, right? It's not going to actually.

decide the election one way or another. But, you know, it's like this heightened intensity because of the magnitude of the night. So that kind of thing was funny. Greg boring a La Croy in the guy's eye. It's a hint of Lenin. He's like, it's not that lemony. It's a LaCroix. That just took me out.

Bodega sushi. Just so much, so much of the episode. the subject matter, I guess the like the political sort of jockeying and the kingmaking nature of a, of a news outlet. And, you know, like I said before in the previous episode, when Shib's always talking about, the democracy, is it really that democratic that you guys have such an outsized influenced on who actually gets to become president of the free world? No. but you'd never hear that come out of Shiv's mouth. That's for damn sure.

But yeah, I don't, you know, I don't, I guess I'm not as shocked by how nasty our politics are because I've already internalized that truth for a really long time, you know? Yeah, I mean, certainly wasn't like, this is how the sausage gets made. I can't believe it. I think because, you know, there's something about the constant narration of both political events and sporting events that I feel like very similar. Like, you know, it's just like in real time,

you're getting points per possession information, or you can get all this analysis in real time. And that forces people to pretend to have something to say. And there was something about watching the speed with which, not only like, did these people have information before the election results starting getting announced when he's like, we'll get ejected from the election pool if there are any leaks.

And of course, they immediately start leaking it. and not only are there all these sort of like guardrails that are up to like not have executives on the floor making editorial policy, which of course they break constantly throughout the episode. But there was something about like the way in which the people telling us the story shaped the story. And in some ways that's true for television that I thought was really effective and kind of scary. You know, it's this idea that like five networks and 50 Twitter accounts can kind of like. Exactly. indicate to you what reality is. And it's like if someone,

hopefully not exactly like Roman Roy, is in a room somewhere and is just decided that a fire at a polling station is Antifa or is bullshit and burn ballots don't exist. So we can't know. So we have to go with Wisconsin as it is. It was definitely chilling. But honestly,

dude, I laughed the entire time. I thought, like, I mean, even through lines that are supposed to be kind of like weirdly heartbreaking, like when

like when Ken, I think says to Roman, like, I think Roman was like, oh, what, like America? And Ken's like, it is a pretty cool idea. It is a pretty cool idea. Everybody living together. Different people. Like different people. See? Yeah.

Getting romantic. It's just funny because getting romantic about the concept of America in that moment as these three bumbling idiots try to exert their will on the future of the Republic is it's just it's so ridiculously funny and paradoxical too you know what I mean like Ken could be like on the one hand he's the human embodiment of a lot of what's wrong with our system um yet he can still hold you know in his heart maybe he doesn't put it into action he doesn't use of his power and influence to accentuate that essential truth about our country, which a sentiment that I happen to share, by the way, that I do think that's something dope about

the country is that all of these people from all of these different backgrounds are more or less coexisting, right? That should be like a Twitter header for you. America, a pretty cool idea. More or less coexisting. But like, you know, watching Kendall, by the way, stock completely down on Kendall,

the quote unquote leader of this enterprise. Watching him say that to his brother, who, you know, as nasty as what he's doing in this episode is, it follows such a clear and obvious logic that like if we can help get a guy elected, if we can have the ear

of the president, we should be trying to do it. No matter what. Like, it's so easy to follow that logic. As nasty as Menckenfields, as just like some of the language is so crude, of course, in typical succession fashion is. Like, Roman is the only person who his logical threat is so clear to me.

It's so consistent. It's actually also compared to Shiv and Kendall relatively selfless. Like, it is actually thinking of the family business. I think also thinking of himself in terms of how he could rise if he and Mencken continue to have this like odd charged sexual, but not sexual relationship with each other. But Kendall is thinking in terms of,

I won't pick Mencken because Mencken's too close to Roman. But I'm telling Shiv that like it's going to be me who runs this company, but I don't want to affect our family. So if you want this, if you can guarantee that him, Menez can block Gojo, then I'll go with a Democrat. And it's just like everything for those two, for Shiv and Ken, are personal. And how can I help myself? How can I, like, fulfill my vision of myself?

And Roman is actually doing something that I think his father would do, which is like, what's good for the company here? You know, and what do I want to do here? And then all of Shiv's pleas about, you know, stability and the monster and the nightmare and everything that she's saying. I wanted to ask you about Roman specifically, because I I think it's an incredible Colcom performance in this episode. It looks like the next episode is basically going to be like a hero ball episode for him

as he delivers the eulogy for his father. What do you think Roman believes, like politically? Do you think he has any beliefs? Not really. In so much as he does, his beliefs, I think it's very, which unfortunately is what you see of a lot of online politics are. it's figure out what the quote unquote other side is for and take the opposite. So Roman, I think he instinctually bristles against liberal ideology, right?

And I mean capital L liberalism. I'm not talking about what people categorize as liberal when it comes to the Democratic Party in America. I mean classical liberalism. I think Kendall, I mean, excuse me, Roman sees that and he's just like, yeah, And then the Democratic liberalism is just like, no, that's no, hell no, this is crap. You guys are hypocrites. This is fake. You don't mean any of it.

And so, yeah, I think in so much as he has politics, it's in opposition to quote unquote, the libs. Yeah. Well, or in opposition to the masses, right? Like, I wonder what would have been succession. I mean, obviously this kind of company and this. this model off of Fox are always going to be conservative. But it's like Roman is like probably the biggest outsider of the three of them. You know,

like Roman is the one who doesn't seem to be comfortable in situations. And Mankin's the only one, like one of the only characters he's been around that makes him feel comfortable. And Matson, those are the two guys. And he definitely has a way about him when he's with those dudes, which is not entirely like subservient. You know,

like he's very confrontational with both Matson and Mankin. I wanted to ask you a little bit about Mankin. So there was an interview today on Vulture with Justin Kirk, who plays Jared Mankin, who also plays the DA in Perry Mason. So it's quite an HBO run for him right now. And they asked him basically like if there is a like who he modeled Mankin off of, right? Like who's Mankin model off? He goes, I don't know that a specific parallel exists. He's alt-right, but he talks smart.

He's not Lauren Bobert. He's super charismatic. So he's not Josh Hawley either or Ted Cruz. He's a guy who maybe isn't out there yet, but could be tomorrow and is all the more dangerous for it. Yeah, I think, yeah. See, so for me, it felt more Ted Cruzy with actual charisma, right? Ted Cruzy that everybody in his own party doesn't actually hate, like, for reasons that aren't even, like, political. Like, Ted Cruz is, like, people personally find the guy repulsive, even his fellow Republican colleagues, right? but like his quote unquote politics and posture of you know being they said he was professorial or whatever

but like you know like yes it's ted cruz because ted cruz does have that ivy league background and stuff like that it's just nobody has ever watched ted cruz on tv and said i like that guy and then what makes it worse is like nobody's ever met him works with him um been in coalition with him and thought that either the Manking guy clearly has something. Yeah. I think when I was talking with Andy, I was like, I don't know if this guy could get elected. Not that that's really what the debate is about,

because clearly they're engineering some of that. But I was like, I think this guy would be a curiosity, but I don't really know if like some dude talking about the sweet wisdom of the republic and like a leader rising out of the like the populace. Yeah, there's some Jordan Peterson to the Manky character too. Yeah. You know, which again, I don't think that's a guy that would connect with the masses of people, but you understand what his appeal is to certain folks, you know.

Yeah. And yeah, and in our like such fractured times where everybody goes to whatever corner of the internet they find to be the most pleasant, he can have an audience and he can make really enrich himself, but I don't think he could be some mass political figure. I don't see that for him. Maybe that's like the show trying to be press, Anthony. Maybe that's what, and that's what Justin Kirk is kind of saying is like, maybe this guy isn't here now. But what if you combined like a real command of political philosophy and language with a populist appeal?

And what would, when you put it in a fairly photogenic, charismatic character, I thought it was really interesting that the way that Mencken is shot is on in all these like rich reds and browns. And like, it's very like romantic and warm when you see Mencken and when you see. Jimenez, it's like blue, gray. And he's a fucking cold blanket. And he's like fucking trying to sell you a Kia. Like it's just like this is just like this dude is not president, you know? And what people need to understand too, I think is there's no such thing really as a person who's quote unquote unelectable. Sure.

If you make it through the crucible of each party's sort of primary process, you are going to get 48% of the vote. Period. Like, that's just a fact of our current politics. No matter who you are, if you become the Republican or the Democratic Party's nominee, you have a legitimate chance to become president, right? So I'm kind of beyond this idea of electability and a guy like this. Like, if you, you know, got the right connections within both of those power centers and you were able to make it through, you know, barricabes.

Obama don't make some phone calls to take your campaign or Fox News doesn't turn on you. If you're on the GOP side, you can really get some things going and you will get a bunch of people to vote for you because of how polarized we are. And because the narration has become so constant and because in post-Trump, it's become the soap opera that so many people participate in on a day-to-day basis is our national political drama. then the narrators of that drama become all the more important making Kendall, Roman Shiv types or like in the world of this show, their decision

making is all the more crucial and they can exact, because if you basically are on a 50-50 line no matter what because you've distilled, you can either be one or the other thing in this country. You can't have, you can't just be like swing voters

and independence and whatever. It's just like, come on man, but really, on November 6th, you're going to be like a swing voter. like how do you not know what you wanted to hear you've been told every single day all day long what like if you believe this you're this and if you believe that you're that i think it's important that you mentioned the drama because i i don't know that folks um realize the extent to which there are no like actual mass politics meaning there is like there's not going to be some massive change born of the voting habits of the people

And as a matter of fact, to the extent that our actual politicians mobilize is to be like, yo, let's go send $3 billion to Ukraine. Everybody's on board with it. It happens within a day. It's not one of these things where, like, Biden has to campaign, he has to do the Sunday shows and he has to sort of sell the American people. It's like, hell no, like they just decide to do it and then they do it, right? This isn't built off of some consensus of what the public will is.

Conversely, take something that, like, you know, a bunch of people, they see a bunch of little kids get mowed down by guns at a school. Most Americans, overwhelmingly, the American people are like, yeah, we should probably put in, like, a little bit of, like, resistance to, like, acquisition of guns. Like, we should make it, like, just kind of harder. Harder than, like, yeah, like getting a driver's license. And absolutely nothing happened. Right? And so when you say our politics are just drama, it's not based on things actually happening in the world based on our political whims or actions. Like, and so it's been reduced to a fucking TV show, Alabama versus Arburn. Pick your team, root for them to win, and then, you know, go back to whatever the hell it is you were doing.

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Only on Netflix May 8th. Let's talk about the Shiv betrayal reveal and that conversation between the three of them. And I've seen some commentary about like, and you've been kind of not like, I don't think, an anti-Sarist Snook performance. You've been sort of like, this character is very well drawn because she's so full of herself and yet is so flawed. And she makes some terrible mistakes in this episode, namely doing the like, I'm on another call, like, I'm going to call

Nate and like calling a dead number. Instead of calling Nate and maybe being like, look, I'm trying to basically like shape this for you guys, but you've got to play along. Kendall's going to ask you. Yeah. And instead, she just doesn't. And her entire setup blows up in her face.

What was your feeling about the, like, specifically like what happens to the Shiv character in this episode? So I'm watching the show and I'm trying to not have my own personal biases be reflected in my analysis, but it's hard to watch this episode and not think the show reserves the most contempt for Shiv as this avatar for

limousine liberalism. Centrist liberalism. You know what I mean? Like this lip service liberalism where Shiv's like, every vote needs to be counted. Yeah, for the guy that's going to help you get your agenda through. Or it's like, you know, it's good for, like, when she calls Madsen and says, it's good for democracy, but it's great for us. It's great for us.

Yeah. Like, I'm trying not to let my own personal biases creep in, but it feels like the show has the most contempt for her. And as far as her political position in this, right? and what she says and what she actually does. Like she's the one delivering the line to Kendall. Oh, don't get cynical. That is absolutely rich coming out of the mouth of shift.

Who's been maneuvering and, you know, sort of double dealing from episode one of this season when she's late to that meeting in the hills. Right. And so first of all, once we learned that Greg Deerey, knows what's going on. We automatically know it's gonna get out. Yeah.

Also, she tried to be, she tried to be your father. She tried to be like, I'm gonna disembow you and put your fucking liver on a spike and all this stuff. And Greg's just like, it doesn't sound right coming from you.

And I don't think I buy it. But also Logan also understand when there was actual leverage there. You know, like one of his last episodes, he was like, eh, they kind of got something here. I have to go freaking kiss eyes.

at this dumb-ass karaoke because they actually have something. Like, Logan could actually recognize when the cards weren't in his favor and would be like, all right, let me use a soft touch here. He was just better at it. Greg did exactly what Shiv did the episode prior.

He just was like, what's in it for me? Give me the, let me know what the ticket is, how golden is it? Yeah. And she was like, your ticket is fuck you. You know what I mean? Like, that's your ticket. And he was like, all right, I'm going to see how it goes then. You know what I mean?

And Shiv really did. play herself in that sense because she could have just been like Greg no matter what happens here we're good and if I get if Madsen gets taken care of here you're going to get taken care of yeah there was a way to massage that but she she couldn't do it but also what was interesting about that moment is the conversation that Tom and Greg had where Tom says you know information is something you hold it you hoard it then you smash someone's face with it when he knows that the secret that he possesses is Shiv's secret and it's

her who's going to get smashed in the face with it. He talked to him about the Madsen thing and he's like, Greg, you have information, use it to kill somebody. And that's exactly what he proceeded to do. To Shiv. And Tom knew that was

going to happen. Do you think that her misplaying her hand towards the end of that episode is essentially a consequence of what she's basically saying to Tom where she's like, my head's all gone because like my dad died I'm pregnant I like I've been awake for a week you know in seven different time zones and now here we are on election night and instead of winning by four points this guy is is like we're coming down to like 17 votes in

Wisconsin yeah she's clearly in a malaise and rightfully so all of these it's not even just that you're pregnant is that you're keeping it a secret from everybody who's close to you and is around you. Obviously, you lose your father and the complications of that. And Tom's saying that you almost, that you, you know, you kind of killed the guy.

It's not as if she hadn't thought that already. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So all of these things are weighing on her. Yeah, I think they are showing that this is somebody who's unraveling, but also, you know, getting kicked in the freaking gut that way,

pardon the pun. I think that's kind of woken her up. And I think there's so many, the way that this episode was laid out, I feel like the decisions that these guys made in calling the election and going so hard in the tank with Manking, it feels like it's going to ultimately be their undoing. So you think that this is going to, this is going towards an explosion. Yeah, 100%.

And I think it's actually going towards a solitary crowning. I just think that Kendall is late letting people make their own mistakes here and I thought you could watch that episode and you could see very much throughout it. He's entirely overwhelmed. He's ineffectual. He's indecisive. But at the end, I still feel like both of his siblings were appealing to his decision making. Now, part of it is like a natural, like there's three people.

You think Ken was in there making decisions? I think he decided. I think if he had decided to go. With Shiv, I think that, like, Roman would have been overruled. I think if Kendall and Shiv had been like, let's take a step back, damn the short term, and let's make sure we get this right. I don't think Roman would have been like, I'm in charge. I get to call it for a Republican.

And I think that throughout the episode, like, and throughout this season, we've essentially been pushing Kendall towards the top of this heap where he will be alone, where he will be without his family, without his siblings. It's just going to be. Now, you're probably right. TV has more twists than that. I don't know if succession ending with Kendall, like in the Michael Corleone's spot is really division for this. But I did have a more pressing Kendall question for you. So we've gotten one mention of and then one appearance of Sophie Kendall's daughter in the last two episodes. Do you think that the continued absence of Iverson is anti-Sixers bias on the part of the New York's liberal media elite? Oh my God. The erasure of the Roy kids. And to bring them back and have only one of them kind of barely show up is so hilarious.

And yeah, condolences to all the Iverson fans and Sixer fans. Not a lot of kids being born with the name Hardin right now, I don't think. Yeah. I don't know that there will be a lot of Tobias either. Maybe some Tyrese's, although, you know, The guy from the Fast and Furious soundtrack sort of complicates that. Yeah, it's so funny that they're shoehorning his kids back in as a subplot. But just so I could just finish the thought about why I think ultimately this thing is going to mess them up.

Yeah. It's called from real life. I think if you read or I've read a lot of stuff about the 2012 election and Fox News feeling backlash from their viewers, because they had basically promised them that Romney was gonna win, right? Like, that he was gonna beat Obama. That was supposed to be really close. It's like, that was one of the first times

that you were just like, are you guys just fucking with us? Like, you were like, this is like on a knife's edge for months, like both sides. And it's like everybody is the most important election of our lifetimes and everybody's got to watch. And it was like, Obama smoked this guy? Yes. And so the backlash, a lot of,

and this is a lot of people who have posited this. Like, their viewers felt like, Like, yo, you guys lied to us. You guys told us this was good. Not only were we going to win, but at least it was going to be close. This guy got cooked. And a lot of people traced that backlash to decide. And they're like, yeah, we're not going with what the establishment tells us to do.

Like, we're going to freaking, we're going to go with the guy that we actually like. Not that, quote unquote, is going to win, has a better chance at winning. Because the last time we did that, a guy that, a guy that. we hated anyway, went out and got smoked on our behalf, right? And so I say all that to say. All the Democrats are like first time? I think these guys coming out

and basically telling their their viewerships of falsehood is going to have repercussions with the shareholders, with the this, with the that. And I think it's ultimately going to be there undoing because the way everybody's waffling of just like,

it feels like these guys being at the forefront of making that decision is going to have some consequences. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it felt like in the moment of watching it. Like, this shit ain't going to work out. You guys are too self-semed too self-satisfied right now. Well, I mean, the shark's also in the water, and that's Batson. So, you, I mean, like in this, the episode prior to this at the tailgate party,

I think we're supposed to have our first sort of, like, vision of Mattson as, like, diminished or is, like, possibly not in control of this shit. but the trailer for the coming episode, and we could talk a little pre-cap here, is the funeral for Logan Roy, and it looks like every single character in succession is there. Yep. So you've got an aquarium with a lot of sharks in it.

And so Mankin's there, Mattson's there, Roman is under the spotlight, which he doesn't always perform well under. And Ken and Shiv and everybody who have just fucking cut each other's throats in a conference room, I don't know if Darwin's going to be able to attend or if he does attend how his vision is doing. But yeah, like I think that there is definitely a very combustible moment right there.

Obviously, we know those are always the best episodes. Like when we bring all these folks together in this super confined environment. But yeah, this is the first time they're doing all of these people in the space. And yeah, like, I don't see how you don't get excited for what's to come. in the last two episodes in the history of this show. Yeah. All right, man. Well, we can wrap it up there, Waz.

I believe we're going to try and record next week, even though I'm going to be overseas, but we'll try and knock one out. Thanks to our producer, Chris Sutton. Thanks to everybody for listening. You can catch Sean, Joe, and Bill Simmons on the Preciseach TV podcast. On Sunday night, recapping this next episode, and me and Andy on the watch doing the same.

Was, good to see you, man. You too, brother.