The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Succession’ Season 4 Premiere Recap

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

Bill, Sean, and Joanna join forces to break down the premiere of ‘Succession’ Season 4. They discuss how the HBO series picks up right where it left off, their thoughts on this being the final season, and the newly formed bond between the Roy siblings. Along the way, they also unpack Logan’s surprisingly introspective moments and Tom and Shiv’s fractured relationship. They close with the biggest winners and losers of the episode before briefly speculating on what the rest of the season has in store. Hosts: Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Joanna Robinson Producer: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Erica Ramirez, founder of Ili, and hosts of What About Your Friends, a podcast dedicated to the many lives of friendship and how it's portrayed in pop culture. Every Wednesday on the Ringer dish feed, I talk to my best friend Stephen Othello and your favorites from within the Ringer and Beyond about friendships on TV and movies, pop culture and our real lives. So join me every Wednesday on the Ringer Dish feed where we try to answer the question TLCS back in the day, What About Your Friends? Morning Decisions.

How about a creamy mocha forapuccino drink or sweet banana? smooth caramel maybe or white chocolate mocha whichever you choose delicious coffee awaits find starbucks rapporteur drinks wherever you buy your groceries it's a prestige tv podcast my name is bill simmons i am here with my number one boy sean fantasy and my number one lady joanna robinson we're going to talk about episode one season four succession a show that we all love a show that I think is in the running for a best show of the last 10 years. They announced it was going to be the final season. It was a little nervous.

How are they going to land the plane? What's this first episode going to be like? Is it going to be one of those, set everything up and nothing really happens episode? Oh, no, Sean. A lot of stuff happened. What was your favorite part? Oh, my gosh. Well, the fact that they picked up right where they left off, you know, there's no throat

clearing. There was no, like, we're back to war with Logan. And I think even though there was this incredible storyline, about the kids teaming up and actually, you know, letting the old man bleed a little bit by taking something away from him. What I liked best about it was showing Logan in a in a powering down face, reflective, emotional. There's a critical scene in a diner in this episode that I hope we will dig into that I thought was absolutely riveting and kind of unlike anything we'd ever seen before from the show. So a little bit of the old and a little bit of the new. I really dug it.

You're my best guy. What'd you think, Joanna? I just want the listeners to know that Sean lights up like a Christmas tray every time Bill calls him his number one boy or his best guy. I am, as you know, I love the episode Turnhaven from season two, so I love the Return of the Pierce's, Cherry Jones, and like her whole vibe of, oh, I don't understand this, or it's not about the money as she wrangles both sides of a deal. I loved that part of the episode. I had as the big stuff in this episode, basically, can the siblings actually work together? Tom setting off a pierce sweepstakes that carries the second half of the show. Logan, surrounded by hangers on losers and kiss asses all of the sudden, plus his sleazy girlfriend, advisor. Carrie, what did she say?

Advisor, friend. Friend assistant and advisor. Fred and assistant advisor. Yeah. And then, so she's gaining momentum. them. And then we have Nan Pierce negotiating with the kids doing the hypocrite thing and the kids trying to outdo their dad for reasons that I didn't even really fully understand. Why are they trying to drive the price on him? He's leaving them all his money. My head was kind of spinning

with all the different business stuff going on because the Zojo sale is happening. So they get money from that, but it was not nearly enough money to buy the pierces. Did you, Joanna, did that all tie up for you in the right ways? Well, it's personal, right? And I think that's, This is why Roman is so squarely about it because Kendall and Shiv are being led by their feelings about their dad and the vengeance and how this would hit him personally because this has been a lifelong obsession of his and they get to just yank that toy away from him. But yeah, it seems like they're going to get two to three billion from the Gojo deal if they cash out on their shares. And then they're looking for added financing, I guess, to make up the other seven billion. for their $10 billion deal. And that negotiation is hilarious because, yeah, they win,

but they completely miscalculate what's going on on Logan's side of the call. The Roy kids are going to be kids, you know. Sean, when we were thinking about The Ringer, I remember you said to me, what if it's substack meets Masterclass, meets the Economist, meets the New Yorker? And I think Chris Ryan said it's like a private members club for everyone. And then I remember Mallory said, we have the ethos of a nonprofit but with crazy margins.

Why didn't we do that? That was such a good idea. I don't know. I was watching the episode with my wife and she turned to me during the pitch for the 100. And she was like, you must love this shit. You fucking lose her. The 100.

Really good name. I like the 100 as a name. I think the business plan left a little work. As somebody who's been in media for a while, I'm not sure that would have captivated me. and I don't think that was a billion-dollar business they were building. What was your take, just if somebody pitched that to you, Sean? I mean, we've been in the room for some of this BS, new media stuff. We are, of course, participants in new media,

but there's just a lot of funny business and a lot of phony baloney, big idea, no-execution stuff in this space. So it was very familiar. It's much funnier when it's a fail-son or two-fail-sons and kind of a failed daughter who have no experience in the space whatsoever, have never made anything, have never built anything. I mean, the show is obviously very hard on every character, but I think it's interesting that when forced to confront the idea of doing something themselves,

the better option to them is to just buy somebody else's work, you know, just buy a legacy media company because starting from scratch is just so hard. And they don't have the gumption for it. They don't have the guts, the ability to actually go for it. Joanna, did they contact you to work for the 100 or no? Were you on the first wave? How did that work? Yeah, they did.

But when they said bespoke bite-sized parcels of information or info snacks, I was like, no, I do long-form podcast only. I can't do. I can't do short form. Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out. They said Kendall, at one point they said Kendall had spent the last three months recruiting writers and I guess editors and had a whole bunch of people in line. but then literally in five minutes they abandoned the idea.

And they're kind of like, wait, you know, this is kind of flimsy and a piece. That was one of the funniest parts of the episode. They just all gave up on it immediately. It sounds like them. Exactly. Yeah. Well, and also, who would want to do a business with that? What have they, none of them have proven anything, you know?

I guess Shiv has had maybe the most real life experience, but even she, I don't think. I don't know. I loved it. I like the idea of Kendall coasting off of a rise in social media fame to thinking he completely understands how media works. I mean, that is also a very tried and true story of somebody who used their personal business, aired that dirty laundry publicly, wrote it to a series of Vanity Fair profiles and cool tweets,

and then decided, I am the new Rupert Murdoch, you know, or the Jan Winnor or whatever he thinks he is. And it's brilliant. And of course, they give up on it because they don't know how to do anything. The phrase that Sean texted me earlier this week was media hucksters, which I really liked. This is sort of this era of media hucksters. But I think that, like, something that I loved in terms of, like, can the kids work together?

And for the most part, they, I mean, their ideas might be terrible. They might have misjudged the deal, so like that. But they didn't tear each other apart the way that they usually do. And they got through the episode with some semblance of, you know, feeling like they had a victory. But I love the sequence where Kendall's listing off their assets, right? And he calls Shiv the yummy dummy, right? and himself a fearless fighter, and then Romans, the fucker,

who, like, you know, whatever can get stuff done. And I, first of all, rarely does anyone ever list someone else's assets in the Roy family. They're usually trying to, like, fuck each other over. Right. And then, of course, when he calls himself a fearless fighter, to Sean's point, that's just him completely swallowing his own bullshit from last season. He's like, like, his descriptions of Roman and Shiv feel right,

and his self-awareness feels low at this point. The lack of self-awareness. with the Roy's siblings is one of the great things about the show. You forgot to mention at the end when he said,

yeah, New Gen Roy's, we have a song to sing. It's like, do you? Do you really have a song to sing? So I guess the two big, big,

big picture things here, the siblings, whatever happened at the end of season three did weirdly bring them closer together and now they're working together even when Jeremy Strong's character

walks into that awesome house. He's like, Roomey! Rubber, Ruby. We got a business to start, baby. So we have that. And then on the flip side, you have Logan, who's just destroyed everyone in his path forever.

And now has this sad birthday party where he doesn't even want to be in the room with basically anyone there. He's got multiple people there who he's fired and brought back or cut their legs off in some way, combined with like cousin Greg and his loser girlfriend and Tom, who's about to be his his ex-son-in-law and, you know, ends up going to that diner, which I think is the most important scene in the show. He takes Colin the Grim Reaper out, Grim Reaper from episode 10, season one, who's always floated around as like this, you know, bodyguard slash the wolf,

seems like. And all of a sudden, they're at a diner, and he starts talking to him. And he's like, you're my best guy. And he's trying to have, like, a moment with him. And the guy's kind of like, what the fuck's going on? I'm just your driver. Would you love about that scene, Sean? Well, I mean, I think you put your finger on it.

It just reveals how alone he is. You know, the only people that are willing to surround him are people he pays or who are supplicants or who want something from him. And, you know, that's also true of his children, but at least they are bonded by something deeper than that. And he's just a lonely old mean bastard, you know? Like, that's really the point. And obviously, there's just a lot of foreshadowing going on with Logan's fate. And like, I think we can kind of speculate as much as we want about how the show is going to end. But that was a real what is life and what is the purpose of life conversation had with a relative stranger,

like someone he spends every day with, but that he doesn't know or even care about. He doesn't even want him to speak. As soon as he's, you know, Colin starts to share a thought about how his dad feels about religion. He cuts him off because it's just logan. He doesn't want to hear him. Yeah, he just wants an empty jar that he can fill with his feelings. And I don't know. It's a fascinating scene.

Logan Roy doesn't play a lot of scenes quiet, you know, Brian Cox. is a big boisterous actor, and that is a played very differently than we usually see him. And I think they're setting us up for the final phase of the show, despite the fact that a lot of this episode kind of felt like classic succession,

you know, like a bidding war and a lot of jokes and fast-moving energy and between that sequence and then the sequence that ends the episode, which I'm sure we'll dig into too, two like totally different tones operating inside of the same episode.

I read the Sumner Redstone book a couple weeks ago, actually. And I do feel like Jesse Armstrong was dipping into that world a little bit with Carrie, you know, this assistant that rises up and clearly has just the worst possible intentions and is using Logan as this way to get in the family and got it. We don't even know what her motives are yet, which is similar to the Redstone thing where he had these two kind of assistants slash whatever advisors that became the two people that ran his life and just started like bilking money from him.

Joanna, what did you think of that scene and what do you think of where we are with Logan now? Yeah, well, I wouldn't be myself if I didn't force some Shakespeare conversation in here. So, you know, like Derek was talking about how much, when we did that Hall of Fame episode, Derek was talking about how much King Lear is obviously the blueprint for this. But basically they crib two Hamlet speeches in this diner scene, right? He gives them what a piece of work is a man's speech? Like, what is a man? And, like, he gives that speech.

And then he gives the to be or not to be speech. Like, is there an afterlife? Like, he did double Hamlet in a diner with Colin. And, like, that's just – and I love Sean's point. He's monologuing, right? He's not in dialogue. He's having a Shakespearean monologue, Brian Cox's Shakespearean actor. And I think the way that this episode – I think it's been so interesting to hear from, like, Sarah Snook and some of the other actors that they didn't know for sure, for sure this was the final season until they got the, like, final take.

able read. Jesse Armstrong has said, you know, even when they started, he was like, we were pretty sure it was the end, but, you know, it was a whole process for them. But to start this episode with a reflection of the premiere, another Logan Roy birthday, a different, a different woman of the house here, Carrie instead of Marsha, but another birthday just like, we love when a show is intentionally ending itself, right? So it can be like really intentional with its final season. So comparing this birthday to the first one we see where, yeah, stuff with his kids, it's fraught, but he's surrounded by his kids. And here, Conner's there, but none of the other kids are there. In the first episode of season one, Kendall leaves a business deal in order to come to his dad's birthday, and his dad is almost like disappointed in him that he did that.

But here, you know, the kids are doing what he asked, which is like having their mind on business. And that disappoints him as well. And that's just Logan because he doesn't know what he wants. And he's always going to be disappointed in some way because he wants two things at once, which is his kids to be completely dependent on him and his kids to be independent and grow their own thing. Well, we found out in the therapy episode, you know, the thing that's important of him is his family. Oh, yeah, yeah. He kept saying that over and everything.

No, it's my family, my kids, my family. Say it a few more times. I'll believe it, Logan, for sure. I was thinking about that scene with Colin, which is just awesome. That actual actor in real life where he's basically just Grim Reaper guy. He barely has any lines. And then he gets the script for episode one. It's like, hey, you're going to be in this five-minute diner scene with the Barrow's two Hamlet speeches.

And he must have been like, oh, my God. Probably came home that night, talked to his wife. Like, you're not going to believe this. I'm in like the key scene of the show. Brian Cox, who, you know, who's an amazing actor, I think he has dialed it up a few times over a couple of the episodes. Sean, you mentioned that, I think you tweeted it, that big dinner scene in the last episode of season three.

He's amazing in that scene. So he's had moments where he's just amazing. I thought he was awesome in this episode. Like actually, I thought you could make a case this might have been his best episode. We all did rewatches recently. I think this might have been his number one. Well, he's really, when he's in big crowds in scenes, he's usually yelling and expected to be this kind of like ferocious leader.

But his best stuff to me throughout the show is when he's in one-on-one conversations. You know, he's such a, like, a focused and engaged actor. And I really love him opposite Kendall in performance because, you know, we also bring this baggage of knowing that maybe Brian Cox doesn't love Jeremy Strong's performance approach. But the Colin thing was funny because it's like we're saying. I mean, that was him grabbing the reins and saying like, I'm the main character of this show. Like, don't forget. Like, this without me, this show doesn't exist.

Like, Kendall has taken on such weight in the culture and Jeremy Strong has become such a lightning route of conversation because of his character. But I mean, Brian Cox is kind of like what the show is sold on. He's Murdoch. He's Sumner Redstone. He's the grand Puba. And even though the show started with him in this kind of like, you know, physically ailing moment. He has basically gotten stronger and stronger

and stronger as the show has gone on. What kind of foreshadowing are we seeing with that speech, Joanna? I mean, he's contemplating his immortality. And like, Sean is talking about season one in the way in which, in season one, you know, there was a version of that season that they contemplated that Logan dies

and that the show is just the kids in the aftermath. And I think we're all happier that we get to explore these kids. in conflict and in contrast with their dad. Like, I think Brian Cox has been so important as that sort of thing for them to bounce off of. But, yeah, we have to wonder if at some point they're going to... Something that Jesse Armstrong said in his New Yorker interview recently

was, like, the title succession makes a promise to the audience that there will be some discussion of, like, something will happen. So, I mean, how can that not be on our minds in a final season, you know. It made me think of the last Sopranos season, which we did a Hall Fame episode on actually the first episode when he goes to Bobby Bacola's Summer House. You haven't seen this because you won't watch the Sopranos.

You simply refuse. Yeah, he simply refuse. But he has a scene with Bobby Bacala on the boat about what do you think happens when you get whacked? And it was just interesting how that was. the episode that started this season. I want to talk about a couple winners from episode one. I have three winners written down.

In the bronze medalist, Colin, the Grim Reaper, who we covered, silver medalist, Roman is just at the peak of his powers as a character and an actor. And it really like all came together for him. I don't know, at some point near the second half of the first season and he just got better and better. They kind of lost the narrative with him a little in season. in three where he actually just became really mean, especially at like Kendall's birthday party.

And it was like, ah, he's actually like, they went too far. This episode, it's just one-liners. When he's riding the business guy as to do that deal, like one of his single funniest moments, like, oh, wow.

Just so awesome to be in your presence as the guy's just like, yeah, we should go to eight. It's like, oh, thanks, T. I thought, Roman, I thought this was an amazing episode. Anything to add, Sean? What comes after nine? Nine B? I think you're so right.

Sean was texting us about that birthday episode about how mean Roman was at the end of season three. And I think it really misses a key part of who Roman is, which is like he's kind of the most emotionally intelligent of the kids. Definitely. When Shiv has that conversation with Tom where she finds out that he was like meeting with Naomi Pierce

and the fine, you know, Tully wants to bring the finance guys in. And she's like, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. And Roman's like, hold them off. Let's take a minute. Like, he sees that she's not fine. And I mean, these are the moments because I am so soft-hearted that I love about succession is like when – I love when they're mean. But them being so mean all the time makes the moments where they're tender with each other, like, hit so hard. And so for Roman to absolutely know that Shiv is not fine and to prioritize that over closing the deal in the moment, that's the juice of succession for me.

Yeah, they did a good job with the siblings of, even though they have their lives, don't have anything in common with just about anyone that watches the show. But it's still like the family dynamic of, I'm loyal to this person because I'm related to them. We have this whole history. Like they've had a couple scenes over the course of the show where it's just like you can feel the history of like when they were all 14, this is the way they talked to each other. But also like a competitiveness. And then the trade of succession is don't trust anything.

anybody and we'll screw anyone over. And each of them, even though they're all aligned, they're still kind of like, hey, Shiv, where'd you go? Right. Hey, what calls are you taking? What's going on? And it's like they're just, they're so burned by life and by family and by anything that even as they're combining to do this whole thing, they still don't trust each other.

I thought Roman was great. My winners of the episode, the gold medalist, I have as a combo because you can't separate them. This was an unbelievable Tom and Greg episode. They've hit the point when they're on the screen together. where it's just, you know it's going to be magic every time. Greg bringing the, the, I don't, semi-girlfriend, whatever she was, and Tom's reaction to it.

And it's just, it just feels like Armstrong knows those characters just perfectly. It feels like he just loves writing any scene with them. So I had them for the winners. You agree or you have another winner, Joanna? I mean, I'd give it to Tom, for sure, like, because he does all of that. And then he has the sequence at the end with Shiv. Right. So, you know, for playing both sides of what this episode is to offer.

But yeah, Greg is usually the 9B of that combination. Like you can't have Tom without Greg sometimes. But yeah, the disgusting brothers, gold medal to the disgusting brothers. Disgusting brothers. Unbelievable. I was trying to think what combos in TV history that I've loved the most, and they're way, way, way, way up there. maybe even top three.

Who's like your number one, Sean? I was talking about this on another show earlier this week. I mean, I'm not as much of a breaking bad person, but I think there's a lot of Walt and Jesse energy between them. This kind of like, they need each other. There's this odd, like, non-sexual romance happening between them, you know, where they're kind of, like, fascinated with each other. And, I mean, we talked about Joanne and I talked about this a lot last season

about, like, what is really going on under the surface with Tom? and that also is informed by like the new sexually active Tom and everything that's happening around Shiv too and their relationship and the kind of end of that relationship. So I don't know, I mean, it's a very short list of. Avon and Stringer. Oh, that's a really good one. Christopher and Polly,

even though any scene that those two had together culminating in when they were in the woods, yeah, it's weird. Walt and Jesse, I never felt like, oh my God, we get to hang out with Walt and Jesse. for 20 minutes. Tom and Greg, they could have an entire spinoff episode

and could be like, episode two is just Tom and Greg. They have to do a road trip. I'd be like, that sounds amazing. Where do I send my money? Yeah.

They're just doing bits though. They're on like a sitcom. I feel like they're doing a podcast when they're on the show, you know? Like, they're not, they're in a different world. Like,

they're constantly trying to one up each other and they introduce this like new lingo to each other every day. Like, you see, when Greg comes around and he's like, the disgusting brothers, you know, it's like they are performing for no one.

And it's, so different than, I mean, Roman and at times, Kendall have that same energy, but for the most part, like the other characters are just like, we're in a business meeting, you know, like there's no bits. In fact, there's a scene in the, in the episode where people are asked to tell jokes and perform and no one can do anything. Okay, wait, I want to talk about that scene because, I mean, I will say on the Tom and Greg front, maybe the best line of the episode is, did you rummage to fruition? That's like maybe the best thing I've ever heard, possibly. What about when he's making fun of her giant bag?

Greg's whatever, his date. What's that bag? What's even in there? Flat shoes for the subway? Is she going to slide it across a bank floor? He starts roasting him. It's so funny. I mean, and like, I don't trust Carrie either, but shout out to Carrie for some of her legs.

Like, poor Bridget, I don't know her. But, like, you know, when Carrie's like, from the apps, like. Like, what's her last name? Random fuck? Like, you know. Bridget random fuck. Yeah, exactly. No, but the Logan tell a joke scene, I don't know.

I'm curious what you guys think. Like, that felt very early season three Kendall energy to me, right? Roast me. Make fun of me. Do it. You know what I mean? And that's like Kendall's cringy early season three. Like, it's hilarious.

Read these bad tweets about me. It's so funny. And it's like this very sweaty bid for attention. you know what I mean? And we've never seen Logan do that, I think. Yeah, he seems so bored by everyone around him that it's like he had this moment of going, do these people, are they even fun to be with for two seconds? Can any of them even tell a joke?

He just had this aura of everyone is beneath me. I'm so tired of this. I'm tired to have my ass kissed. None of these people entertained me in any way. I don't know. It felt like the end of the road. And then can we talk about Carrie? Yeah.

Who during season three just kept showing up more and more. But we didn't really have a total feel for her. She was just kind of more and more constant, but not really a character. And then this one, I mean, she had some winter lines. Like, what was that one when she said, I think Greg asked where Marcia was? She's in Milan shopping forever. She's in shopping forever. Forever.

I thought Carrie was really good and I just felt like that actress did a really good job in it. That's a fun, that's a really rewarding part of the rewatch, I think, rewatching season three and seeing how early they seed her in and like how she does just grow incrementally through the season. Yeah, she, by the time it gets to that one when she's like, Kendall, wait your dad's coming in. Ugh.

And Kendall's just stuck in a closet waiting for him. realizing that his dad's never going to show up. That's when it felt like she was really in the mix. But now she's doing basically the Sumner Redstone, whatever those ladies were called. The losers of this episode? I have the silver medalist, Greg's girlfriend. Tough episode for her.

She took some hits and then tried to get a selfie with Logan and say, Kaching. I thought that was incredible. Great cameo by her. But the real loser of this episode is Mondale the dog. As a longtime dog lover and somebody who has multiple dogs, if you ever want to know anything about Shiv as a character and a human being,

like watch how she reacts to the dog when she comes home. There's fucking dogs in a dark room by itself with the gate around it. I agree. I'm not, I swear I'm not like just knee-jerk defending Shiv, which I might do in the future. But like Tom put, like, Tom was home. Tom put Mondale there in the dark room. 100% when you come home, like at least lean over and give the dog a head rub.

I agree. What's up, Mondale? How was your day? These are bad dog parents. These are just awful people, like the worst. Like, why is Mondale all the way upstairs? Why is he on the bed with Tom? I have a dog.

What's the point of having Mondale? And why did they name a Mondale? They thought it was a very hilarious political reference. What's hilarious about Mondale? It's like the most boring political candidate we've ever had. I had a lot of questions. I felt bad for Mondale, though. Does he have a dog walker?

Does he just, is he stuck in that circle all day? They had so many Mondale questions. At least he's not crated. But no, I would never treat a dog like that. Any pet like that. On the Bridget front, something I will say is like what I love about Succession and this is even more apparent when you're like rewatching and rewatching is like all the little leaks. You know what I mean? Like Tom trying to get in front of this Naomi Pierce thing for Shiv is what puts them on to Pierce in the first place.

But Bridget tagging Bun Pierce at Logan's birthday party is what, like, really gets them. You know, and it's just sort of like, you know, never tell Greg anything. That's a really solid rule. Never tell Greg anything. He's going to tell someone else immediately. Like just all these little moments where like if it weren't for this one person you called, maybe you could have pulled this off. But you called the wrong person and you told the wrong person and they snitched on you to Logan or whatever it is, you know.

as a longtime lover of redheads. How do you feel about Shiv heading into these final eight or nine episodes? She's taking a lot of dense. Even the Tom marriage isn't working. She's out with Logan. Hard to say what's going to happen.

I guess she thinks she's going to run Pierce. But where are we going? She's got a dog in a gate and the third floor of a weird dark New York City apartment. Where are we going with her? No, I mean, I think there was so much time spent in season three talking about the tragedy of Kendall, but I think you could make the case that the most tragic character on the show is Shiv, you know, that she consistently thinks that she is about to be in the position that she really wants to be in.

Professionally, personally, romantically, she's like, she is the kind of epitome of like you can have it all at the beginning of the show, you know, like you can be a leader. You can also be from one of the worst, most destructive families in American history, but also, have good politics. You can have your tall, handsome, successful husband and also have affairs on the side. You can help someone be elected president. You know, you can become a media mogul. Like all of these things were in front of her. And now it kind of seems like nothing is in front of her. We don't really know where she's going personally, professionally. She just bought something that somebody else built. Like actually a woman who, you know, she probably wants to be like in Nan Pierce. And I'll say, by the way, the other, the platinum medal winner for me is

Dan Pierce for cashing $10 billion out on a legacy media company that is probably worth one-tenth that. But I don't know. I mean, Schiff just feels like a very tragic figure at the moment. And I thought that final scene was like heartbreaking, crushing and, you know, played so differently than the rest of the episode. And I don't know, I have friends who have split up and like, if you, when you really get them to talk honestly about the end of their marriage, that's, it's the rawest realest thing

in the world. And to bring that into an episode that is otherwise so madcap. I thought was an amazing choice. What did you think, Joanna? I mean, I agree about the tragedy of Shivroy, especially like watching her, in season three, watching her fall for her dad's bullshit, you know, when Kendall says, you know, oh, it's you now, I'm sorry.

You know what I mean? Like, there's reality in that. But there is a silver lining, I think, in this episode when she's working with Kendall and Roman and, like, Kendall a couple times when they're trying to navigate the Pierce deal. He's like, you do it. She likes you. You talk to her.

And, like, every time he says something like that to her, she lights up because, again, Turnhaven, one of my favorite episodes of Succession, when, you know, she is an asset. And Logan keeps cutting her out of the conversation with the pierces. And so to be in this other, this trio where the skills she does have, because she has some skills, if her, maybe just her democratic reputation alone are recognized as an acid in this deal rather than get out of my way, that made me happy for her. And it made me happy any time the kids were sort of shoring each other up. But then, yeah, she goes home to that, you know, her darkened home doesn't greet the dog,

like, you know, and Tom's there. But, oh, my God, devastating. I thought the final scene was absolutely beautiful and devastating. And it wasn't surprising at all because their marriage started. it off with her telling him that she's probably going to still sleep with other people. Tough one. I really do feel like Tom, if you're going to make a pie chart of what was his true love for Shiv versus what was his attraction because it was professionally great for him to be

involved with Shiv, I think it's like 80-20. I really genuinely think he loves Shiv. He pulled off that scene on their wedding night where he was pretty devastated that she didn't just want to, you know, be his wife. And even in the wedding, you can see the toast. Like, they just set all of it up so you knew this, this was, this couple was doomed to hell. And she's probably not meant to have a husband. But now perversely, I'm pulling for them. Yeah. For a comeback? Yeah. Can these crazy kids find their way back to each other? I think he has a better chance with Greg. I have eight fantastic scenes in this one. We mentioned Greg brings a

friend, Bridget Random Fuck. I thought that was amazing. The siblings audibly to pierce in the span of two minutes, the pierce deal and dumping the hundred was great. Greg and Tom, that first scene when they're really cooking when he's making fun of her giant bag. What's even in there? Logan eating with Colin the Grim Reaper, which we mentioned. Forgot the quote, everything I try to do, people turn against me, Logan says. Okay. Feels pretty self-pitying for a guy who's just his goal in life is to destroy everybody. It's like, gee, I wonder why they're all turning against you.

But it did seem like he feels that. Carrie calls the kids and the shift says we would hear you better if you think dad's cock out of your mouth. She's like, what was that? And Roman just repeats the line. Just the way they were talking to Carrie. I loved because I thought that was genuine. Do you have any jokes seen?

We forgot to mention Craig tries to make a joke and Logan says, who wants to smoke Greg's finger, gets the scent? I don't even know where that came from. Roman Ragging on Tell Us the business guy was so fucking funny. And then Logan telling them, congratulations on saying the biggest number, you fucking morons. Like he just, every episode finds a way to just ram. some sort of knife into the kids.

So, Sean, how do you think this plays out? I don't know. I'm not watching ahead. I don't know what's coming next. I wonder if the... It's hard to tell, but I wonder if the acquisition of, you know, the Pierce brand and PGN is just like a setup to more showdown or if it's actually kind of meaningful to the rest of the season. That's the thing.

Was this just a way to kind of get us geared up for the energy? And will we will be hearing about like what they're working on with Pierce? Or is this that just a way to kind of reignite the fire and then focus maybe on more like internal family conflicts? I'm trying to figure that out. And then obviously all the foreshattering where we're seeing is sort of like the end of the Logan Roy era. And then what is how are they going to conclude the show? I'm not very good as Joanna knows from doing this with me last year. Like I'm not very good at speculation.

I don't really like watch the show is too much to be like, who's going to win? Because like no one's going to win because all these people are horrible. but I do feel like it's trending hard towards tragedy. That's like that's the message that they're seeding in this first episode. But we didn't even mention we have Connor's wedding to look forward to at some point. How are you feeling about Connor and Willa, Joanna? Oh, well, Willa's hair is blonder than ever. And that's like I felt like she was preparing for her first lady role,

but he's only got that 1%. So I don't think it's going to happen for her. What's the next decimals? But I think like, Sean, I'm not watching ahead, so I've only seen the first episode. I do like to try to guess, though, unlike Sean, and I would just say, I'm interested. We've been circling, you know, speaking of Connor, we've been circling this presidential election plot line for literally seasons. And I think they said they were like 10 days away from the election.

That's got me really interested. You know, like we met Justin Kirk's character and he got a mention in this episode. Jared, like, is that going to be our president? is it Jimenez, who seems to be like the Democratic candidate that his team was calling Shiv. And Shiv saying, like, we're about to have an election. It's 1933. I want to have a say. So I'm just like, I'm interested in the politics.

And then I was also really interested in how much California we got in this episode. Like, I think it's so interesting. This has been such a New York slash European show. But Romans got this, as you mentioned, gorgeous house in the Hollywood Hills. He probably already had that house because he, worked out in California for a while, but like, to see California Ken, California Shiv, California Ken with his, like, his sunflower seeds. Oh, when he walks in, after he says the, like, Romi, Romoommy thing, he says, let a thousand sunflowers bloom, which is a common

misquote of Chairman Mao, who said, let 100 flowers blossom. So like, I love that he walks in misquoting Mao. Like that's California Ken for us. And they go from like L.A. and then I presume they're up in Napa when they're seeing the pierces despite all the palm trees that are there. But the contrast when the negotiations

happening and we're cutting back and forth between Logan's like study, which is all dark wood and it's nighttime in New York or stuff like that to like the sunny, bright, light whiteness of the Pierce compound in Napa. I just thought that was really this has been such a New York show, So Jesse Armstrong, I found out again from that New Yorker profile, like edits the show in

he doesn't go to California. He's a New York guy. So I was just interested as we are all California people as the California element of this episode. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigue, ask your doctor about Zepbound, terseptite. The first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity.

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where taste recognizes taste. Some quotes. Kendall says, I've smoked horse. It's really fucking nice. Really, really, really fucking nice. Marsh is that here. She's shopping in Milan. forever. Kendall calls his relationship with Naomi Pierce, where are you guys? And he goes,

it's a carnival of mind fuck, which maybe would have been a better name than the hundred. I like when Roman says to carry, I've never licked his big omelet nipples. Even for Roman was amazing. And then Logan getting mad about the Fox anchor, he says he looks like a ball sack with a toupee. I thought that some of the one-liners in this show were really top of the game. I'm intrigued. I know Joanna loves Nan Pierce. I'm intrigued to see if she's in one episode or lots of episodes here.

It could easily be one and done for her. My favorite line related to Nan Pierce is when they get invited into the house while they're waiting outside. And Roman says, all right, get to talk to an old lady about a newspaper. He was on fire. He really was. Him talking to tell us about the deals and being like, I'm overwhelmed by this intellectual powerhouse in Harvard Business School and just dunking and explaining how much half of, you know,

$500 million is. That whole sequence is fantastic. And I'll be curious to see, like, he's the only character who I have no real feel for whether or not they'll, like, develop, conclude, like close a loop with him. You know, like he had this extended series. with Jerry, and now, do they just not speak? Like, is that just completely over?

Yeah, what happened to Jerry in this episode? She's barely in it. She's barely in it, but they do play my favorite game, which is Frank and Carl and Jerry play No, You Do It. When they're like, oh, sure, sure, it could be me, but, you know, I'm across these other things. So maybe it should be you. I love those three so much.

I also just need to shout out Willa and Connor's conversation about the wedding because when he says bum fights, right? And she's like, bum fights. And then she says, I know. She's like, it might sound stupid, but I always thought my wedding would be nice. Like, I would have a nice wedding. It feels like they're going to unleash us, unleash them on us in a later episode. Because as we know, the show loves big gatherings and events.

Oh, the bum fight episode? Can't wait for a bum fight episode. Well, no, just whatever happens in that wedding is, is. going to be something. Well, I'm officially sad because I think we only have, how many do we have? Is it, is it a 10 episode season nine? Do we know? I think it's nine, but I, you know, let me double check. I'm officially sad. I'm going to miss the show deeply. I watched this first episode three times. I wanted to watch it a second time for the podcast and then I just talked myself into a third time because I just like hanging out with all the characters. and there's no show that makes me kind of feel like this.

You know, and I like that. We're only getting 39 episodes, and that's it. I think that's going to be part of the show's legacy, is that it went out swinging. It certainly feels like in this episode, it's going to go out swinging. Well, I, so it's 10 episodes, the final season, so that's good news for us.

But Jesse Armstrong, who, you know, is British, comes from British television. Like, this is the best thing that British television does, right? which is like get out early, so you just have four banger seasons that we can always look back at with fondness and never say, well, maybe they should, you know, we're in season eight,

maybe they should have cut it, you know, at the time. Again, I really recommend that New Yorker interview that he did with Recmead because he talked about that idea of like how he really wrestled with it. And if we are to examine Logan's mortality in this season of television, how can that not be also the writers and the showrunner reflecting on the end of something that they created,

that is the biggest thing they've ever done. You know, Jesse Armstrong has done other things. This is the biggest thing that all of them have ever done collectively. So what does it feel like to end something like that? And, you know, again, Jesse Armstrong talking very honestly about how they grappled with that. Like, should this be the ending? Is this a time? Do we keep it going for several more seasons?

And then it just becomes something else. It just becomes like a fun hang show where you hang out and write, really fun, you know, snarky one-liners for these incredible actors. And, like, it could have been, but, like, they wanted to get out while they're still on top. And I admire that. Can I ask you guys a question about that? The hardest I laughed at this episode was when Tom said to Greg, that was heavily ironized when they're talking about the disgusting brothers. Yeah.

And I immediately thought to myself, like, would I watch four seasons of the disgusting brothers? Like, at the immediate conclusion. You know where I stand. I mean, it feels like they could do that. The Greg and Tom spin-off they could do in five seconds. I think it would be a half hour, too. It would almost feel like more veep than anything, right? Yeah, that's what I was.

I mean, it's like sort of how do they better call Saul their way to another show? You know, like how do they find a kind of prequel sequel sequel, you know, young Greg, like a younger Greg. But that would also betray, I think, what Joanna just laid out, which is this neat package where we can basically refer to every episode by its proper name because they're so, few and we have such a strong connection to every episode. Like, just revisiting the show ahead of every season is just fun. It's not homework. You know, like a lot of shows when they get into like episode, you know, season five, season

seven, like going back and trying, I mean, Johnny, you know this better than anybody. Like trying to, you know, get your arms around a show's history can be so hard. And this show just being a tight, like a tidy package, I think is part of what makes it so appealing ending now. Yeah, I was talking to somebody was saying how Sopranos is probably 15 episodes too long. The wire out of any show I could remember is probably the closest to the right length. I like season five. I think I value that season more than others,

but I really feel like the 50 episodes of whatever end up being was close to the right number. Game of Thrones had the weird thing of the last season was almost too short. And they just crammed everything together. And then shows like loss just went on too long. And it's really hard to land the plane with that. actual right number of episodes. And it feels like this show has a chance. I just want to say that, like,

I feel like Damon Lindelof learned his lesson from that because the leftovers is such like a tight three-season show and then the watching only one season, you know? So like, get out when you can, when the getting's good, is an interesting philosophy, I think. And White Lotus was supposed to be one season and now has turned into America's favorite travel crime show. And White Lotus is probably the successor to succession

where if there's a new season, everyone's going to be excited about it and watch it and you know there's going to be a certain level of quality and acting and all that stuff. But yeah, I mean, we watch so much B plus stuff and B stuff and B minus stuff. I think that's going to be the legacy of this show is that it kind of levitated above all of it.

And every actor is going to be really hard to see. It's going to be really hard to see Calkin outside the show now. You know? Because the Roman character is so distinct and so awesome. It's just going to be weird to see him in any sort of normal situation. Like he's going to play a dad in like a movie about a family that lost their dog. Like I'm just going to see Roman, you know?

I feel like Culkin's been playing versions of this character, though, like in Igby goes down or Scott Pilgrim. Like this has just been the character of. Colkin, like, trajectory. So I feel like I'm going to have an easier time with Colkin than I am with Jeremy Strong. Even though Jeremy Strong is kind of chameleonic and, like, does very different flavors than the different things that he does. But he's so Kendall. Roy to me, it's hard, it's hard to shake it. Again, you never watched The Sopranos, but Gandalfini.

Because I refuse. Gandalfini, after the Sopranos, and he made a couple other things. And you just, Tony Soprano was so indelible. trouble with Gandalfini after that, even though he's a great actor? I liked when he really pivoted hard away from that character. Like, Enough Set is one of my favorite movies. And he, like, completely drops the, you know, tri-state East Coast accent, and he's, like, a much more kind of sensitive, vulnerable guy.

So he needed to really make a choice. I think, for what it's worth, Jeremy Strong makes a lot of choices as an actor. He wears costumes, makeup, you know, he changes his accent. Like, he's going to do that. He's going to try to, you know, be that chameleon that that Joanne is talking about. So I don't think it's going to be

very hard for him. I was just thinking about how if Jared Mencken becomes a big part of the show the rest of this season, how like a potential spinoff for me feels like it could be more in that realm, like in the realm of politics.

Because there's that, what it takes, that episode from last season was so good and so like nailed that this era, I think, of kind of like reactionary right-wing politics and the way that like king-making still operates.

And there's a part of me. One, I love Justin Kirk. Like, I think you could easily carry a show written by this crew. And two, it feels like a way to kind of get away from that family. But like every once in a while, maybe Tom appears in an episode. You know, like it's an expanded universe kind of a thing that isn't stuck. So I don't know. I'm now kind of daydreaming about that possibility.

But we'll see if Jared is even like, if he even wins, if this is even really where the show is headed. I ask Casey Boyes about it. I don't think he'll mind me saying this. I was like, you can't, this universe can't die. I'm not normally a this universe can't die person, but I was like, this universe can't die. And he's just like, it's up to Jesse. Like we would never nudge, push.

But if Jesse comes to us and was like, I have this idea, we're obviously going to do it. He'll be the one that decides it. I feel like we might get that in like 10 years. Maybe. Or it could be two years, you know? Like I think even a breaking bad prequel seemed inconceivable. And then all of a sudden they were making it.

The reason that that show, was so good, though, was because it was the same creative team. It was like there was pure, like, you don't, you don't, you don't want exactly what Casey's trying to guard against. You don't want somebody else to come in and be like, I have a riff on these characters. Like, it's Jesse Armstrong, it's his writing staff, it's Mark Myel. Like, it's those people who have basically been on the show for five years. And you want those people telling these stories with these characters. And Bertel. And Bertel. I wanted to write a script about Mondale, where Mondale escapes.

and he just, it's like a dog's purpose crossed with succession. He leaves. He tries to find a new family because he needs to get away from these awful people, but I got rejected. All right, that's it.

That's it for episode one. We're going to be doing this Sunday nights and then there's only screeners for the first four and then I don't know what happens. Dude, it might be one of those situations where we just have to watch at night of the show. And Joanna's going to be the only constant.

Sean and I will be on a bunch of these, but not all of them. And we'll figure out what the lineups are. But yeah, we might be in a situation where we're just watching these on Sunday nights and then taping a pod right after, which I don't know. That's the kind of podcasting.

Sean and I grew up on once upon a time. That's right. Just rolling up our sleeves without screeners, just reacting. Yeah. The Duke and Duchess of Instant Reactions, built this whole business on it. All right.

So we'll see you on Prestige next week. Thank you.