The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Super Pumped’ Episode 1 Recap

Episode Date: February 27, 2022

Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin discuss the premiere episode of the new Showtime series ‘Super Pumped’ and find many positive comparisons to other projects, such as ‘Billions’ and ‘The Social Network,’ that draw material from the real-life machinations of corporations and tech companies, in this case Uber. They then analyze the episode’s major plot points, explore the initial juxtapositions between main characters Travis Kalanick and Bill Gurley, and praise the performances of Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Kyle Chandler in those roles. Hosts: Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin Producer: Chris Sutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm here with Mally Rubin. We are going to talk about super pumped on Showtime. First episode done by Brian Coppulman and David Levine, the creators of billions who have interacted in various ways with the Ringer universe. So I wanted to acknowledge that up top. Mal. Yes. I didn't know really anything about Uber's story. I never read the book.

I followed some of it in the news. I knew that the founder, Travis. was at one point a loose cannon, then became worse than that, finally got ousted. I knew some of the shady stuff that they pulled. I knew it was a little bit of a roller coaster ride. But other than that, I did not have like a huge reservoir of opinions, thoughts, previous baggage that I was bringing in. So I was watching this first episode. Yeah.

Really like kind of learning stuff and not knowing stuff. So what was your interaction with it? Similar, I think, in the sense that like I have not read the Mike Isaac. book on which the show is based, and most of my knowledge and familiarity is from being, you know, alive during the time that all of this was happening and absorbing it via the news cycle. You know, certainly around the time of Travis's ouster in 2017, this was like heavily in the news. So I had some familiarity, but also felt like I was learning a lot right away about the origin of the company and the dynamics inside of the company, which are obviously central to how the

season one of this anthology show is going to unfold. And I think to what the anthology bucket is interested in exploring overall across its seasons. Well, it's tough not to think about social network when you're watching this, which is, in my opinion, the best movie of last decade. Whoever you pick for last decade, it has to be one of the four or five things that can mention. And that. What's number two on your list? Infinity War, end game? Probably Dark Night for me.

I don't know. I'd have to look at it. But I thought that movie is on Netflix now. I think that movie is incredible. More than a decade ago already. Yeah, 2008. 2008.

A long time ago. Now we have the Batman coming out. But yeah, so it's hard to compare anything to that. But at the same time when you're watching the machinations, this is, I think, closer to the social network treatment than it would be for like a lifetime TV movie. But I think for me, just from a personal experience, because I interacted a bunch of times with Bill Gurley, between, like, Grantland and the ringer and trying to figure out, and I think you came to one of those meetings. And we actually went through a little bit of the

process, wondering, like, should we get an investor when we're doing the ringer? Should we get somebody like benchmark and really interacted with them? So to see him being played by the coach from Friday Night Lights was just bizarre. Bill Gurley's like 6-8 in real life. He's a Texas guy. Chandler's obviously the Hollywood version of him in a lot of different ways. But to me, the reason I open this up is Chandler was the winner of I saw the first two episodes. I thought Chandler was incredible. I love Kyle Chandler. I have a ton of Kyle Chandler stock. This is about as everything I wanted from Kyle Chandler, right? Bill, I don't trust myself to speak on it. He is magnificent. It's just delighted to have him back in my life. He is remarkable. Really wonderful.

He's got the point still, just like coach. You know, the the hand gestures and a lot of the Annerisms are the same as Coach Taylor, but he's completely, it's obviously a completely different character and a completely different vibe. I really liked the scenes between the Bill Gurley character and the Travis Kalanick character, the Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Kyle Chandler scenes were great. I only watched the premiere, I should say. I have not watched ahead, just the first one. That was my favorite part of the show was every scene with Kyle Chandler and Joseph Gordon-Levitt. And it's funny you mentioned Coach Taylor because I was thinking of him like hedge fund Coach Taylor basically. Like Coach Taylor leaves Texas gets into the hedge fund world and just becomes Bill Gurley and it's just the extension of that

thing. I think for me, like, Joseph Gore of life, I've, I've complicated relationship, but love it. I've liked him in some stuff. I haven't liked him in other stuff. Okay. How did you feel he was in this role so far? I think he had to amp it up. I'm not sure. I know they needed a good actor for it. I thought he he had to be super pumped. Yes. He's got to be super pumped. He's got to be super pumped. You got to bleed for it. I thought he was good, not great. And I wonder like, I was trying to think who would have been my perfect person for this part. And that's a really hard one to land because it's almost like you're pulling people from the 2000s. Like this would have been an amazing Matt Damon 1999 part.

This would have been a really cool Leo DiCaprio 2003 part. But, you know, for the current crop of actors that we have that are probably like have to be late 20s, early 30s or at least look that way. I think this is about as good as you could do. but I still felt like there was a little more on the table with this character. Too often I felt like he was just the, I'm pumped up, I got a lot of energy. And that was like his mojo. Again, I've only watched the first one so far.

I didn't want to watch ahead. But I liked him a lot in the premiere and I thought that the things about the performance that felt embarrassing or off-putting are supposed to feel that way. Like this is not a character we're supposed to be drawn to or a character we're supposed to like, I think that it is one of the core distinctions between the pursuits of this show and the pursuits of billions.

And there are, I think, a lot of similarities between the two and a lot of interesting, maybe like shared preoccupations or shared interests to parse, but also a lot of differences. And that is one of the core ones. We are not supposed to root for Travis. We are supposed to be wrapped and riveted

as we watch him fall apart. Axe, we are drawn to magnetically, even if we feel a little bit ashamed of the fact that we are. And I think that that's a pretty notable distinction. So the fact that certain aspects of the performance are making you think, like you're mentioning the DeCaprio, like movie stars, true, true, true movie stars. If somebody that famous were in a role like this, I don't think you would buy it because part of the energy that we need from this figure is,

why won't my brother show up to my party? Yeah. You know, why, like this absolute bone deep need. Like we get in that exchange in one of the flashbacks. Flashback within a flashback. A classic staple of, you know, that I'm not, nor will I ever be a salary man. Like the absolute revulsion that he feels at the idea that he wouldn't be superior is supposed to be off-putting.

Yeah. So like if you're comparing it, like let's say Jeremy Strong was Travis Kowenek. That performance is a lot more complicated and goes. in a lot more directions. He's also probably too old. But Gordon Levin, I watched the first too, but I thought it was tough to feel like, is this guy evil? Is this guy just a wannabe? What is he? Like, I had trouble unpacking it because I don't, I think almost the show doesn't want you to decide on that yet. And there's been some of the reviews that have been out, I think missed it, where there was reviews like, this doesn't go deep enough into Uber's, you know, the way and the tech

and the way the tech industry has disrupted life for the worst over the last 10 years. I don't really feel like this show wants to get into that till. And again, I only watched the first two. But I think that the reckoning is probably going to come much later. For now, this is like a pure mechanics. How did Uber take a rise like it did? And what was the deal with this founder who's about to have this Icarus fall? Yeah.

It's a good point. I think that one of the reasons that I love what Brian and David do. And, you know, we should say Beth Schachter is a part of this team as well for this show is that they're just as interested with the context around the central figures as they are the central figures. And so one of the real points of fascination and intrigue here is how does our society allow for something like this? How are we in a place collectively in 2009 when the company originally forms in 2011 when

we're watching all of this unfold with benchmark and then beyond when we're moving toward this endpoint that we know will come in 2017? how does our society and our warped way of life like breed this kind of thing? And to the point about Travis specifically, and I kind of can't help but constantly bring up acts as a point of contrast. I think it's a natural thing to do. I felt myself thinking watching the premiere that they're both showmen, but Travis is a showman who doesn't think, he should have to dance. Whereas Axe looks around and says, if you need me to build you a stage so that I can put on a ballet for you, I'll do that. Right. And just has a feel for what other

people want and need to be able to buy in. Like Travis is a bullshit artist and he wants to spread the manure everywhere so that his achievements can sprout from it. But it's not only that he doesn't care if that minor gets all over everything, he actually thinks that that's part of the point and acts is the kind of character who wants to and knows that he has to avoid the stink. And so even though we don't yet know in the first episode exactly where we're, or exactly how we will get to that endpoint, and they'll pace it out. And it's a seven episode season, right? So there's a long road ahead. I do think we know that. And I do think that we have those seeds of mistrust clearly established early, like when we get the Paris flashback to

and that that key moment where Travis is talking about his idea and his company and Kyle Chandler, which is just with his face is like, that's not how it happened, right? Like we all know that's not how it went. And then he has to bring up Garrett and how it was, oh, their idea together. But then we see that other scene where it's like, that's not true. And so right away, we're on our heels with this guy. Like no matter how much real world knowledge you bring to the story, there's never really a moment where you're allowed to get comfortable.

And even in the moments where you're supposed to maybe feel a little bit of, humanity in terms of his family dynamics, the call to his mother, the breakfast scene, etc. It's not exactly winning, right? No. Well, so this is tough when you do this fact-based stuff. If you're doing this as a movie, you're making Travis a little more talented Mr. Ripley-ish, a little darker. Definitely a little more transparently evil. And this kind of thing, you have to stick to the facts a little.

And this is what happens a lot with some of these tech companies. You have these guys who come up with an idea. They're not larger than life. But the idea makes them larger in life. And then they feel like they have to act like it. So from that standpoint, I felt like he hit that, Gordon Levitt, with some of the stuff, like him trying to rally the troops in the first two episodes. And these big speeches where it's just like super awkward.

You're like, ugh. You needed a coach for that one, buddy. So it hits that. I really liked, I thought the girly scenes were so important. Like the little touches, like when no taxi cabs. Oh, yeah. When Gurley catches that. And then Travis says back to him like,

and you weren't as drunk as you made it seem like you were that night. Like that little cat mouse stuff I really liked. Some of the tech stuff, like the go big or die and that kind of stuff I thought was really good. The potential spy at the end, which is a classic hedge fund thing where they fund you. And then all of a sudden somebody's in your inner circle that you didn't expect. And then the big revelation of, you know, at the end when he realizes like, Oh, we'll call this a ride share and not a taxi. I don't know.

I thought it paid off. I really thought the structure of the first episode was good. It set me up to be like, oh, God, I'm in. I want to watch more of this. Yeah, I mean, you mentioned the social network already, but that's like a direct kind of parallel and symmetry moment where we get Uber, what? Nothing. Just Uber.

Like you can't not think of Sean Parker in the social network and, you know, the drop the with Facebook. With Kyle Chandler, that's seen at his gate, you mentioned the aspects of coach that are, feel like, just almost embedded in the DNA of his performance. I loved when he turned around. It was like, you don't have to do that because it felt like he's coaching him. And again, that was part of their origin story, this however hollow and however sincere it is, is almost beside the point. There's this appeal from Travis to Bill, I need a mentor. right and we learn from that very quick and this is you know the pace and the rapid snappy nature of the dialogue which is one of the the hallmarks of their shows the point counterpoint that girly is getting from his from his team and for him it's like I mean this is this is a person who's going to be able to identify a unicorn and make an ocean of money because of his smarts his instincts his intuition is experience and one of the things that we get to hear him say is we'll see if we can complete each other sentence

And very quickly you start to understand a lot about the core dynamics. The psychology, yeah. Yes, an approach between the characters, which is really, I think, well handled in the pilot because there's a lot to cover quickly. What did you think of, speaking of kind of shorthand and assist that we get in the premiere, what did you think of the Tarantino narration? I love, so there's three things. Amazing. I was just predisposed to like this. We had Tarantino's narrator.

We had Allie from Karate Kid as the mom. Elizabeth Shue, who looks fantastic and was great. Do you watch the boys? I do not watch the boys. Oh, man. She's been crushing it on the boys. It's what a career resurgence first. So we have that.

And then Pearl Jam. I thought of you immediately. They just dove into the Pearl Jam catalog and did make some really good choices and some smart picks with like doing the evolution, that song and all. Like they just it had, first of all, first of all, first of all, Pearl Jam is never in TV or movie. I don't know how they pulled that off. It's very rarely do you hear that.

But I thought that gave it an energy. Over and over again, the energy is like, hey, this is amped up. This is amped up. And, you know, some of the green screen stuff they do. And you even have the characters say super pumped in a speech, the main character, which, you know, I love when they say the title. I know. But yeah, there's a manic energy to this that I think was a decision that I actually thought worked.

You agreed, right? Oh, yeah. I thought that it had like a meta quality to it. Yep. That was highly effective. and there's commentary baked into that, but you also sort of can't help but be like sucked in by it. I mean, you're hearing Quentin Tarantino narrate to you and explain to you what is happening, what the psychology is, literally what these things mean. And that, you know, I wonder how many times I'll mention Billions.

I'm sorry. I don't know if this is helpful or annoying. I can't help it. I love Billions. I think this is like the brother of Billions. We have to keep bringing it up. Yeah. One of the things that I find really rewarding about billions, but definitely requires work and attention, is the pace at which it moves and the fact that it demands that you not lose focus for a second. If you do, you'll miss 10 references, 15 terms. And so I found it here. There's some of that here. I mean, we got, you know, J.D. Salager reference. We got a Winston Wolf Pulp Fiction reference. We got the LeBron. Rebaugh-Reebock reference. We got a lot of that. We got a lot of the tech terms, but then we actually had these like AIDS, these moments of assistance where like walking us through, you know instinctually to be appalled by the safe rides fee scene.

And then we actually get to pause for a minute and like catch our breath and and have the breakdown of how that works. And then there's this like kind of, you know, garish flashing font and emojis on the screen. and it felt like an embodiment of like the trappings of the thing that these people are pursuing, which is something that I really like too, because one of the reasons that I love Billions so much and one of the reasons that I'm really, I really liked the premiere of the show and I'm interested to see not only where the rest of this season goes, but where the anthology goes moving forward because it's already been renewed for season two. They're doing Facebook in season two and

like what will they do after that? Billions and super pumped so far. They're not, this is my read on it. I'm curious if you agree. they're not about wealth. They are about ambition and greed and hubris, and specifically they are about winning, the pursuit of winning and that everything that winning affords. And of course, money is part of that. But weirdly, I thought that the like visual and like auditory aids

really helped amplify and heighten that idea. There's like, it's almost like a scoreboard effect, right? This is what winning looks like, but also you know in the back of your mind that you're marching toward losing, which is an interesting balancing act. And Gurley is a good example of that because he's going into it. He talks in big platitudes, right? Go bigger.

Go bigger die, basically. But he's also, he makes it clear, hey, we don't invest in stuff unless we feel like we can make 10 times our money, which is how all the best hedge funds think. They make a lot of small bets on a bunch of different things. And they're almost like NFL draft GMs or something where they're, They're looking at prospects and they're like, can I win with this guy? They're looking at a quarterback. And it's like, I want to get a quarterback with a top five pick.

And I want that quarterback to be a superstar. I don't want to just draft, you know, some schmo that I could go eight and eight with. They don't want to go eight and eight. So his attitude toward that, it's a little like it's in the axe realm, but he's not, you know, a maniac like axe. But he still wants to win in the same ways. And you see in the end of the first episode, when he brings in that guy, he doesn't. does it because he's worried about Travis. He's worried that, you know, their burn rate is too crazy. This idea is going to go sideways. I'm reluctant to say it out loud. That was so funny.

And he's like, I'm bringing in this guy and it's going to ruffle some feathers and they might think it's a spy, but we need this person. And then as we go on the second episode, that person that they bring in becomes, you know, a bigger factor in in ways that I think are a little surprising. But that's, that's it. It's super competitive to make a lot of bets. Things move at a fast pace. You get one chance at an idea. And if you don't pull it off in the first year, they go away. They move on in the next thing.

So I thought it captured that. Yeah. And I think it was well established from both sides in terms of like how that dynamic propels people forward, but also puts people on their heels. Like we learn a little bit about Travis's past experience. Yep. And the way that he was, the way that he lost his company. And, you know, if you think of a couple of the things that he says to Girlie,

And this is somebody that he is, in essence, courting to invest in support in him. And then someone that he is later, like, afraid to expose himself to in any way, to show any hint of inadequacy or failure because what door might that open? How quickly will everything unravel from there to the point where he'd actually be willing to risk losing the thing that Gurley could help him save and preserve? Because he has so much pride. And, you know, when he says initially, like, I'll always listen. I'll always take good ideas, but I will never take orders. I can't. Or when he says a little later, I'm not going to lose my company from the inside ever again.

It's not exactly subtle, but it is actually, I think, deft foreshadowing for where this is going to go. I'm curious. But he also says, well, one of the reasons you don't oust your founders. We know when he says that, we're like, well, six years later, you're getting ousted, buddy. So, yes. A little foreshadowing. Yes. There are a lot of mile markers posted on the road ahead, which I think is nice, actually.

And it's helpful to have those moorings. And it's not ultimately, like, again, another distinction. Billions, it's like, where is this going to go? Who is going to win? Axe, Chuck? Will they find a way forward together? Obviously, that's not where we are currently in the story. But that was so much of the early dynamic.

Who will Wendy side with? It was a total mystery. We know the outcome here. And it's about how that happened. And another interesting thing is that, you know, know, we meet not only the mayor, but we meet, you know, Randall Pearson. So we have these, like bureaucratic figures. And much like in billions, the government is presented as this foil and this foe. But we haven't even met the cab drivers yet because they're going to become

a foe too. Right. And they're obviously part of that alliance that Pearson is working on behalf of. That will remain a force and a force of opposition for Travis. But ultimately, this is about when your allies turn on you, when the people who you think are your teammates are the ones who try to take you down. And I think that that's a layer of complexity that is a pretty rich plot of earth to mine across this anthology because, you know, there's so much that is noxious in the tech boom, the Silicon Valley unicorn era, but also so many elements of our lives are tied up in that. Like there's that moment when, you know, they're talking about how sticky is it. And it's like if people ride with us twice, we have them for life.

And you kind of can't help as a viewer, but think back to your own experience with Uber. And you're like, wow, that was true for me until maybe it wasn't for you. Right. So that's a, that's a really fascinating thing because I don't know how many viewers have an ability with billions to say, oh, I can connect to this personally. I have made this much money or invested this much money or worked with the hedge fund. It's like most people watching the show have probably been in an Uber. So you have an ability to think about your connection. to what is happening and that draws you in,

but there's so much about it that is going to be unfamiliar and new. And I think that's a really interesting balancing act. Yeah, they're good at the minutia. Oh, yeah. And that's, you know, I understand like if some people were saying, the show needs to take a bigger moral stance and all that. And you look at all the different ways tech has disrupted us for the worst. And I know that already.

I don't need to be moralized or preached to with an entertaining TV show. think we'll probably get to that stuff, but ultimately, I don't think that's what this show and this anthology is about. It's more of like, how did this happen? It's about showing us the roadmap in all the different ways. Something might not have happened or these sliding doors moments or, oh, if this hadn't happened, then this doesn't happen. And as you're watching with Uber, you know, I remember for years we would talk about Uber and it's like, do I want to put that on my phone? They're going to have my credit card. Do I trust this? Um, and then, Then all of a sudden, there were rider tips and then Lyft came in.

I remember Lyft sponsored, I think, Grantland at one point. And all of a sudden, I had Lyft and Uber. I'm like, do I trust either of these? And it never felt like they really figured out Uber fully. Remember they would do the surge rates? You're like, this is like extortion. What's happening? You'd be somewhere for like All-Star weekend or the Super Bowl and the Uber's three times as much.

So the peaks and valleys of that, I don't know. I think that's good fodder for a show, especially when you see this guy who's running everything, who had a really good idea, but also was a little overmatched by it, but also had the rational confidence swagger to think that it was all in good hands and I don't need that. So I'm in. I want to keep watching this. Yeah. I think that in the first episode, there are enough exchanges and sequences where you very clearly understand like this is not a good person and this is not like a holy pursuit. Again, I already mentioned it, but like the safe rides fee scene. is very much there to reinforce that. I think a lot more. And the Eisner story, like he reveres this Eisner parking story of like, Asperational.

One dollar. And then once he knew they paid the one dollar he had them, he could do it every one. It's like, oh, you're a fucking douche. You love this weird Eisner story. Yeah. And there's like a lot, I think,

that we will learn over the course of the next few episodes as we move toward that forced resignation and exit in 2017. You know, the shareholder revolt, sexual harassment and discrimination in the workplace, software. Ariana Huffington. She comes in. Yeah, Uma Thurman is coming as Arianna.

They're the privacy. My girl. You love her. There are the- Bring her on. I get Uma Thurman. You get Kyle Chandler. This is great.

What a trade. Umma Thurman, Tarantino together in a project again. It's just, it's wonderful. Unbelievable. Shove a needle in our heart. Let's get it going. Super pump. There's the privacy violations.

There's the delete Uber campaign. All of that, I feel sure, is coming and will be a part of that. And then to your point, I think that will ultimately be married with a lot of show don't tell, where it's not necessarily about saying that out loud. It's about allowing us to witness how that manifested and what the forces were that spawned, but also what it itself then spawned. You know, you mentioned Icarus earlier. and Travis is the kind of Icarus figure,

and I think this will be what we see over the course of the seven episodes, it's not just that he flew too close to the sun, it's that he set out specifically to make a bigger and hotter sun. And then he flew too close to it. And that's really interesting to watch. Well, Cuban, I think, Toa Koppelman and Levine, I think they had Gurley's characters say this,

but it was some quote about... The wall. Yeah, Travis will run through a wall for you. That's the good news. bad news is he'll just keep putting up walls that he can run through. Yeah. And that's what it's like to work with that guy. I, listen, I think this is a great idea for a show. I'm really interested in all this different stuff because tech informs so much of our lives

that, you know, you think about when we were growing up, or I'm older than you, but like the TV movies, you know, and you'd have like, when I was a kid, we'd know, it was a TV movies based on a real life story. And then we got to the 90s and. and Lifetime and Fox and they would do like the, you know, the Amy Fisher story. There were like three TV movies about Amy Fisher, like within a year of that happening and the Texas cheerleader scandal. And then eventually Lifetime took over a lot of that corner. HBO would make some about they do like Joe Paterno and, you know, real life stuff.

They'd make the two-hour movies. Ryan Murphy unlocking with the OJ thing that he did, the American story, which is like, they're making a movie. They're making a miniseries about the OJ. thing? Really? David Schwimmer's going to play Robert Shapiro. Like, you remember that when we were in that moment, we were like, is this, should we, is this going to be a thing? We were trying to figure it out behind the scenes with what we do. And they unlocked like this whole blueprint. And we've seen it for better and worse. I thought inventing Anna was terrible. I couldn't even finish it.

But then there's other ones that are awesome. And I think, I don't know, I like this stuff. I like the non-fictional, slightly fictional narratives that you get to relive. how something ended up being, you know most of it's truthful. The Lakers one is another one, winning time. That one gets a little more fictional, I think. It takes more liberties. Yeah, we'll be covering that on this feed. But yeah, I like this whole era and I think you do too, right?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that the dramatized and heightened version of real-life events is pretty dramatically compelling. I think this show is well cast, certainly well written. And I'm really eager to watch the next six episodes. I'm eager to see how season two shapes out. I think it's a there's a lot of not just that trend more broadly as you're outlining, but specifically in the startup and tech era, a lot of projects right now around these kinds of points in society and business and culture.

So I'm curious to see when it starts. feel like there's too much. But right now it feels like a pretty rich vein to tap. So when they do season 11 about Grantland, who do you want to play you when you show up in episode four? Oh, man. Back then I was still so young and spry, you know, now I'm old and weary. Hold and weary.

All right. So we recommend this show. It is on Showtime. Yeah. Good stretch right now. Showtime, a little bit of a comeback. Gotta be honest. Yeah.

Nice little yellow jackets in there. and in general, a lot of good TV coming over the next few weeks. The prestige TV feed has been a little quiet. It is not going to be quiet starting in March. There is a bunch of stuff going on. So anyway, all right. Super pumped. Mallory Rubin.

Thank you. Thank you, Bill. Will you thank our producer too? I will. Chris Sutton. Thank you for producing today's episode. And Bill, if you want, we'll knit you a hoodie. So you can just look just like Zach.

All right. Good to see.